The Worthy Physician Podcast
Reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine.
The Worthy Physician Podcast
Rekindling the Healer's Spirit: Navigating Burnout and Rediscovery in Medicine with Dr. Yolanda Bogaert
As a healer, do you ever feel like the essence of your craft is lost beneath the weight of your white coat? Dr. Yolanda Bogaert joins us to unravel her 26-year medical career, sharing a raw and honest narrative that navigates through the tumultuous waves of burnout to a place of rediscovery. Her story serves as a beacon, illuminating the importance of aligning one's medical practice with their true healer's identity and addressing the systemic issues that often lead to the erosion of a physician's passion.
Throughout our conversation, we examine the complex realities faced by those in the medical field. From the personal struggles that accompany the transition from residency to private practice to the profound realization that physicians are not omnipotent saviors, but rather guides for their patients' health journeys. These reflections provide a necessary recalibration of the doctor-patient dynamic, underscoring the significance of empathy, patient autonomy, and the delicate practice of detached attachment in healthcare.
This episode transcends the typical medical narrative, offering an ode to the resilience of healers and the transformative power of patient care. Dr. Bogaert's insights remind us of our shared humanity and the timeless role healers play in it. As we close, we invite you to take a moment to reflect on your own path and consider how embracing your authentic healing identity can not only mitigate burnout but enrich your practice and the lives of those you touch.
Connect with Yolanda:
https://frameshiftcoaching.com/
Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.
Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/books
Let's connect for speaking opportunities!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/dr-shahhaque-md-as-a-speaker
Check out the free resources from The Worthy Physician:
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/freebie-downloads
Battle of the Boxes
21 Day Self Focus Journal
Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, dr Safna Shah Haque, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. So what does it really mean to be a physician, or would a better word, be a healer? How does that relate to our identity, and does it really have to be separate? So today we're going to dive right in with Dr Yolanda Bogart, who has an interesting concept on not having to take away the healing part of ourselves. Yolanda, thank you so much for being here. I know it's been a work in progress. I'm glad that we've had our schedules aligned that we've had our schedules align.
Speaker 2:Yeah, serendipity is the other side of mother necessity, and sometimes I think when you put things out there and you are intentional about it, then the universe helps to get this. And I'm really passionate about this next chapter of my life. I've been 26 years as a physician, so I graduated from medical school almost exactly 26 years ago in June. I did my MD, phd at GW and I went on to become a nephrologist, first in academics and then I realized that was not my hat and was really burned out around that time. During my research I went into private practice and I've been there for almost 16 years as a full-time clinical nephrologist, which I absolutely loved and still love.
Speaker 2:But during my own journey with burnout that we can perhaps talk about later but during my own journey I found a greater why, also in terms of reconnecting with the joy that I felt, that excitement that you felt.
Speaker 2:I firmly remember walking across the stage in medical school.
Speaker 2:I firmly remember the first time you put that short white coat, how amazing that feeling was all of a sudden, that power that you're going to live into this identity, this person that you wanted to be since, for me, since I was five years old, I knew that I wanted to be a doctor and to live into that, and it took a long time. It was a big journey to get back and to circle around, to feeling that excitement and that fun and that passion again, and in doing so I really learned and I understood the difference between who I am as my authentic self, which is a healer, and something which I can put on and put off, which is my white coat, and I want to explore that with you and explore that kind of journey. What I feel like burnout means, and I feel that what is happening in terms of why burnout is occurring and how we're not actually addressing these root causes and not giving people an understanding of a potential, of an alternative where they can be their authentic self and still practice.
Speaker 1:I would agree. The system is very good at trying to blame the physician, and that's just not true because we're very resilient based on look at what we have to get in, look at the hurdles we have to jump over and through to get to medical school, then to residency and fellowship, and so on and so forth. So can you elaborate on what you believe is a cause of physician burnout? What are we missing?
Speaker 2:First of all, I think words matter and I think terminology is essential and important. And when we look at and we talk about burnout, there's a misconception about it, and this misconception is that it's occurring because there's something going on with the physician. It's the physician not being efficient, it's the physician not understanding their role, it's the physician not being able to handle the EMR, it's the physician not being mindful enough. There's a lot of this put on the physician and the issue is that burnout is just a symptom, it's just a signal, right, so it is a normal response. It's not abnormal at all. It is a normal response to an abnormal situation that there's more and more disconnect for clinicians between their authentic self, which is a healer, and the white coat identity that they have. And so anytime that you're coming in and you're living like this paradigm, where you're not living your authentic self and you're not able to be who you truly are, there's a fracture that's going to occur. It is really hard and when you put on this white coat and the things that you have to do, which then are against what your authentic self is telling you as a healer that you need to do, that becomes really difficult and I experienced that myself. You go into a room and you're like, oh my gosh, I have 20-ish minutes to tell this young man that his kidney biopsy came back as end-stage kidney right. Everything that we've gone through, like all the trials over 18 months, has led to this. He's going to need a transplant or dialysis very soon. So I have 20-ish minutes right Because it's a 30-minute visit and our practice was super wonderful with that right. 30 minutes followed-up is almost unheard of, especially, but still, by the time the patient gets in, by the time they get roomed, by the time you do everything. At best it's 20 minutes at best right To go through this kidney biopsy to help them absorb this emotions, to help them like, process all these next steps and to go on and to get my notes supposedly done and to move. So even in a setting like that, it's almost impossible to feel that you've done what you need to do in a healing space for this individual.
Speaker 2:Especially when, a lot of times, when you're in that space where you're telling someone something truly awful, you're telling a 19-year-old college student that his whole life is different the destruction, truly, of our esteem right when that happens and we're sitting there in our egos because that's the only way to survive medical school, that's the only way to survive residency. That's the only way to survive someone from day one telling you that you're not enough, that you're not worthy, that you're not capable, right? I remember as a first year medical student. You go in into a clinic and, luckily, the primary care that I worked with was not only a brilliant physician but she was truly just this compassionate human being. I remember listening to his heart and I was like I don't know what that sounds like, but it's really abnormal. And she was just like that's severe mitral stenosis. That's the rumble, right, that diastolic rumble.
Speaker 2:But so many other quote unquote mentories, mentors were not that way, right?
Speaker 2:Why didn't you know this? Or the disdain of, okay, whatever, the rolling of the eyes, right? So to protect ourselves, we have all this ego we put in, which gets triggered Anytime we have a patient outcome that isn't ideal. It gets triggered and that shame because of that feeling that if a couple of years ago, I would have said, if I walked into that room with that 19-year-old and had to tell him that he was going to be on dialysis, I wouldn't have slept for weeks.
Speaker 2:I would have been in my head all the time playing over all the different scenarios and being like maybe if this had happened or this had happened. But instead, because of the work that I had done in terms of my esteem, I could walk in and I could say to this young man, you're going to be going on to dialysis or to transplant, and I could hold his hand and I could actually I could cry and be with him and feel this pain, but I didn't know the outcome, because I knew that I had done everything that I could have done and that a lot of things in medicine and in health don't belong to me. The outcome doesn't belong to me.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you first off, I love what you're saying. Like we can't own the outcomes because really we're there to provide education on decisions that patients can make. We're there to help guide, but we can't own their decisions. We can't own what happens physiologically which we have no control over. But how did you get to that mindset? How did you get to that space that is so different than what we're taught in medical school and in residency?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so thank you for asking that. A lot of it actually came through a place of I was the typical female clinician that went into medicine to save the world, and a lot of that is obviously that there's a void that you're trying to fill within yourself, and some of this was for me, that I never felt that I was truly like a worthy and capable person, and in some ways, that helps to propel you to doing more and more right. There was a reason why I got my MD PhD in six years. I took a full load of graduate classes. While I took a full load of medical school classes and I worked in the lab, I clearly had something to prove, and medicine is a great place for people who have something to prove, who feel that they need to show that they're doing more Medicine will really allow you to sacrifice yourself more and more right. There are no boundaries that are put in place. We are rewarded for our sacrifice. We are like held up right. Oh, look at this person who was a surgeon for 50 years and his kids are there, and so he's telling him. You know how proud they are and they knew that. Yes, they never got to see him ever, but that was okay, because they understood that he was saving the world. And those are. That's what we're. It's lauded, that's what we're supposed to aspire to. Right this place of constant sacrifice.
Speaker 2:And I swallowed the Kool-Aid as well as anybody else. I loved residency. I slurished. My nickname was the Energizer Bunny. I would tuck all my patients in and then I would take the med students and the interns and we would what's called run the board. So back then x-rays weren't on computers, they were literally on this board and I would pull up films from not even our patient and go through 3 am. Here I am because I loved medicine so much and I swallowed the Kool-Aid about doing this. It was actually a funny situation that the interns, at the end of the very end of the year, basically rioted and said that they're going to bed and I was just like OK, with the great disdain of only someone who's a true heroine, who has swallowed the Kool-Aid, that sleep isn't necessary. This is what we're supposed to do, can do.
Speaker 2:And so I was in academic medicine for about five years and I was a failure. My research was not going well. I did sacrifice and done all this for my MD, phd, and I was going to be head of a clinical department for forever except I wasn't and so I decided to go into private practice and that transition was really difficult for me because all of a sudden I was seeing patients and they were mine, instead of seeing patients with a fellow who was supposed to own the patients and in training. Yes, they're your patients, but you also have that supervisor that is there to help you and protect and guide you. Coming into private practice is really difficult as a nephrologist. Coming into private practice is really difficult as a nephrologist.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, especially in American medicine, a great deal of our patients have difficulties managing their health, have difficulties taking ownership of their health, and they're on dialysis because of preventable conditions or conditions that could have been helped the vast majority and I saw this 26-year-old type 2 diabetic who was skipping dialysis, who was going to basically I was watching a train wreck, I was watching a car that was driving off the cliff, and so every time I saw him twice a month I would plead with him and I would beg with him and I would spend like 45 minutes with this patient, just this one patient.
Speaker 2:I had 50 patients but I would spend 45 minutes. My day started at 6 am and it ended at midnight and I still had charting to do because I was that involved. And then one day I realized, as I walked towards him, that he didn't want to see me. This emotion that I got from him and I realized that every time he saw him that that shame that I was feeling because I couldn't, I wasn't good enough, I couldn't say the right words, I wasn't explaining things well enough to him to make him change Because if only I could do that and I should be able to do that that shame that I had for myself, I was transmitting it to him and he didn't want to see me because I couldn't accept him for who he was and I couldn't accept myself for the limitations that I had. And it was putting up this wall, this boundary. And in that moment I literally felt like it was the voice of God saying to me you can't want it more for them than they want it for themselves.
Speaker 2:And I understood then, my limitations, that yes, I'm a healer and yes, I'm a doctor, and but his outcome is about the decisions that he makes, it's about his understanding, and that there are limitations and I can only own what I should own, which is that I do care for him him, and that I know that I'm a good nephrologist, that I have the training and the understanding of the physiology and the decision-making of that, and that's all I can control. I can't control the outcome, because the outcome is so much more than me. His health is so much more than me. I am only a small portion of his health and his outcome. I am only a guide. I am not a god. I don't have that magic wand. If I did guess what, my days would be a lot easier, but I don't, because that's not part of who we are. And mythology, the training that we get from day one, that is all our responsibility. The patient outcome and that, no matter what the genetics, no matter what the disease, no matter what, that it's all on you.
Speaker 1:I rejected that that it's all on you. I rejected that. I love the fact that you said you're a guide, not a god. That's really powerful, because we forget that 80 of disease are choices that they even make before they come to us. I'm primary care, but maybe probably more so you as a nephrologist. They've chosen that, whether consciously or unconsciously so. For the listener to one of the things that will get arped on, it would be okay. What about the patient satisfaction scores? Or what about possible litigation? What are the? Those are the two thoughts that I could think of by going along with that thinking yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's a I'm going to totally push back. There is in terms of possible litigation, it you are doing everything that you still are supposed to be doing and in fact it becomes easier. Because I went to that patient because in that moment, when I realized exactly what was going on and how my behavior was probably actually making things worse for him, as the dialysis unit became a place of shame for him Even more, because there were these expectations that, because of all the psychosocial stuff that was going on with him, because of all the psychological issues that were going on with him, that it was very difficult for him to come to dialysis and me adding that shame, all these shoulds that associated with him with dialysis, just pushed him away even more. And so when I felt that and I heard that and I realized what I was doing, I went to him and I said, hey, I can't imagine how tough this must be said. Hey, I can't imagine how tough this must be.
Speaker 2:And I want to apologize because all the times that I talked with you, it was because I cared for you and because I wanted to change, but I wasn't really understanding the struggle, I wasn't really understanding how difficult this is, and so I want to let you know that I am here for you and I care for you, and it's not that I'm not going to talk to you about your results and I'm not going to say this is what I would advise to you about your results and I'm not going to say this is what I would advise. I'm going to do it and this I said to myself. I'm going to do it in a way that it isn't dripping with all of this shame, because I'm freeing myself and him on the ownership that I had over his outcome and instead I'm going to present this information in a neutral way, in a way of holding that container in that space. And I said to him I am here for you because I believe in you and I believe that you can change, and I'm here for you whenever you are ready to push and to pull, because I know that it can. And what happens is when you do that, when you give agency back to the patient and that ownership and that responsibility back to the patient, is that it doesn't happen for all patients and it didn't happen for this individual. In fact, he actually came for about six months a lot more regular, and it looked like things were going to turn around, but at the end his addiction took over and he ended up dying in a hyper-painting arrest.
Speaker 2:But when that happened I didn't feel all this shame. I didn't feel like a horrible person because I didn't do all this shame. I didn't feel like a horrible person because I didn't do what I should have. I felt that I had done everything that I could and I felt really good about where our relationship was, because I knew for him that the dialysis center once again became a safe place where he could be himself and he could sit in this. But there are so many stories I can give you of people where they were in that same situation and I held the container for them of what I owned right Of being a guide for them, a loving guide, a guy that would even push them a little bit, a guy that would make sure and encourage them and coach them. But they gave them that agency and responsibility for them, that this was on them. Their health, their outcome was on them. And so many people who were in that same situation as this young man who took it and ran with it and miracles happened. Because the miracles aren't on us.
Speaker 1:Miracles are on the patients Do you think that, by taking a step back and saying, okay, I don't own the outcome, that it allowed you to meet patients where they were instead of, as we're a lot of times taught in medical school, we treat a disease and not a person. It almost seems like it allowed you to see them as the person and where they were at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I personally think that the most powerful force for change is unconditional love. I think having unconditional self-love is the most fierce and amazing force that you can have. And a lot of our patients that really struggle with taking self-care and doing the things they need to do really struggle with self-love. They really struggle with that and to hold a space where you accept a patient where they're at, also tells them that they're okay. It doesn't mean they can't grow. And I always tell people I said unfortunately, you've met a Latina mommy, doctor, unfortunately for you, but believe me, it could be worse. She could be married to me or my children. Right, no one comes and meets me and doesn't get stretched right. Just because I'm holding the container for you doesn't mean that I don't know that you can do it right and it's a balance. Right, it's this balance of accepting unconditionally this person for where they're at but still leaving that container of saying I know that you can do this, so that they feel, especially when they don't love themselves and especially with what they're going through when their A1C is 14, is that they hate themselves and they're just eating whatever to get through whatever, putting these little. That's the guide. You're saying, okay, we got this whole mountain to climb, but and don't look at the mountaintop, what we care about is this next step. We're going to climb the mountain like a horse does, right? Horses don't look at the mountaintop, they look at the next step. We're going to climb it and I'm here for you, but it's doing it, and so I think patients are really satisfied with that. I think, to have a place where they go in.
Speaker 2:I had so many patients because I just retired I actually March 1st is that and a lot of it is. I've decided also for myself. I've had 24 years of relapsing, remitting MS, I've had severe recurrent depression and I have a lot of spine issues and I decided that I wanted to do nephrology in a different way and to honor my health and where I am. But it was amazing how many patients really talked about how they looked forward to my visits. These are patients with advanced chronic kidney disease who are heading towards dialysis, who looked forward to coming to see their nephrologist. Because I think it's this feeling, when you don't have ownership over the outcome and you don't incorporate that shame that entails right. You don't incorporate this ownership. That entails and I know this is heresy right, because from day one of medical school. It's all on you. But it's not because it can't be, because that's not what actual medicine and health is, because we are not gods, we are just guides.
Speaker 2:I was going to say. So. I don't want to discount what we can do, I don't want to discount the importance of that, but that's all that we are and it's okay.
Speaker 2:But you have a term for this, because I'm deeply attached and I can promise you that if you talk to any of my patients, they feel this passion for me as a physician. They feel this right. So you can be attached to that. You can be attached to the care that you give these patients. You can be attached to the fact that, yes, of course I want my patients to do well. I can be attached to that because I can own that. That's different than being attached to the outcome. I am detached to the outcome. The outcome has so much more to do than what I can do and I give that to the patient. I help them find the give that to the patient. I help them find the tools that work for them. I help them map out the steps that I guide them to.
Speaker 2:Someone comes to me and they're a train wreck and their A1C is 14 and their blood pressure is 260 per 120 and their creatinine is bound from 1.5 to 3 in a year. I look and I sit with them. I said this is a lot. I hold that space. This is a lot. I tell them that this is overwhelming. I'm sure you're in overwhelm. I'm sure you are.
Speaker 2:So this is what we're going to do. It's not that we're not going to address your LDL 200, but we're not going to do it. This visit. It's your blood pressure 260 over 120. And yes, your A1CO14 is important, but that's not going to kill you tomorrow. So we take that, because otherwise, what we're taught as physician is that, oh my gosh, this person comes in, we're going to put them on a statin, we're going to put them on four different blood pressure medications, and then we're going to put them on three diabetic medications, and what ends up happening is that, patient, you've not guided them to anywhere, right? All you've done is show them the very top of the mountain and say good luck.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:There you are via condylos.
Speaker 1:I mean, because one thing that we forget is that if I were that patient that you had just described, I wouldn't take any of the medications because I'd be like this is this is insane. This is insane, this is not palatable, this is not sustainable. Because we have to remember, like these things didn't happen overnight. And I completely love what you're saying is that you're breaking down the disease processes, looking at what they're all important, but what is immediate, what is more of a long term game plan?
Speaker 2:And let's divide this up, meet you where you're at and put these in bite size or stepwise manner, because when we do that and patients have agency in that choice and they have agency in the fact that, okay, I can do this and it's done, and then it's a movement in that right direction and they feel happy and fulfilled and that they can do it, then they can start.
Speaker 2:And that's what health is. It's so complex, there's so many steps in what we do because, unfortunately, there are so many of these false paradigms that the system puts on, of all these boxes that we have to check. Well, did you do this and did you do that? And so part of what happens is, intrinsically, as healers, we know that this isn't going to work. We know that sitting with a person like this, who comes in and fulfilling all the boxes that we're supposed to is, you said, not going to lead that person to the outcome that they could have, because all they're going to do is be filled with overwhelm and be like forget this, and that there's that disconnect. And this is why I think it's important. This is why part of my greater why is to build a community in which we say it's great that we're white coats, but we're healers. First, tell me more about that.
Speaker 1:Tell me more about that, Because we were talking about it before the recording and I just love what you have to say.
Speaker 2:So 16 years ago, when I had this insight, this flash, it was really a feeling that the divine had spoken. I started trying to figure out what did that mean for me, like, how could I take that and how could I change the way I interacted with patients and understand it and understand this. Remember when this happened to me, that white coat identity was super glued, lacquered on and with a shield of plastic Like this white coat was never going to be taken off. Right? This is because this was my heroin shield. Right, this is the way I was going to save the world. I was going to come in with my white coat. In fact, that's actually my tech stone, right? And as a nephrologist, you get paged from your dialysis units, you get paged from your clinics, you get paged from the hospital. All the time, my tech stone was like because this is the Calvary, she was going to come in. Right, joan of Arc was my heroine, literally, and so it was a difficult process, but one thing that actually a very visual person and one thing was I started trying to figure out who is this person, who is this healer, who is this person, who is this healer, who is this authentic self, and that I actually believe that healers are born they're not made that you come into this world as a healer and the way you interact with people is in a healing way and you don't need your white coat for that healing way and you don't need your white coat for that. I was a healer long before I became a doctor. I am a healer when I hang up my white coat, which I can do now. Right, it took a lot of chunks of like skin and flesh. It was a lot of pain and tears to like literally rustle that cut that white coat off of me. But now I have it and I love it. It hangs up in my closet, I can take it on, I can take it off, but the healer is a part of me that is always there. When I see someone at a bus stop and I engage with them. I engage with them in a healing manner.
Speaker 2:And one thing I found out which I thought was so interesting was there's this great anthropologist, margaret Mead, and the way that she defined the human civilization occurring. The way that she defined like this was the start was not from a spearhead or a farming technique. It's when she found a that had a healed femur fracture, because what that meant was that someone else had sacrificed themselves for the weeks that it took for this leg to heal right. Remember there was no casting, there was no, nothing. This is natural healing, which could have taken even months back then. So that person was protected, that person was fed at great sacrifice to themselves. So a healer has been around since the dawn of human civilization. It's been around since before there was any thought about medicine or vaccines, or even clean water. A healer has been around since the dawn of human civilization. That is who we are. That person who did that is in all of us that are truly healers, and so no one can take being a healer away from me no one.
Speaker 2:And the white coat is a manifestation of the healing. It is a sign for me of the skill sets that I've learned, the years that I put in. There's a knowledge base that I celebrate, that I am very proud of and that I love. I absolutely love nephrologists. I'm one of those geeks that actually can talk about RTAs forever. I love that, but it is not my authentic self. I can recognize that there are things I do when I put on my white coat that are not part of my healer, those EMR boxes. That is not my healing, right. Arguing with healthcare insurance companies about why this patient needs rituximab is not part of my healing, and the difficulty is and the difficulty is figuring out how to keep that healing part of yourself.
Speaker 2:And so for me, what really helped was when I could separate out in this model of detached attachment and separate out outcome. I started healing my esteem and separate outcome. I started healing my esteem. I started recognizing that and rejecting the shame of the patient's outcome. All on me, right that if something bad happened, that I was a bad doctor or a bad person by extension, and so when that happened I could be with a patient and not be triggered.
Speaker 2:So a lot of us that are female physicians who are perfectionists, who just keep working harder and harder, keep doing this, and this, also in that space with a patient, can get triggered, right, either when a patient's like unhappy or sad or something bad has happened and we get our shame triggered. And then what's our default? To spend more time to keep people pleasing, right, we get in this zone, right that we need to do this or that we seek the triggers of a patient telling you that you're amazing because it feeds that heroin part, that sacrifice part and it makes it all worthwhile. And so when you're in your esteem and you understand what you can control and you understand that you're doing that to the best of your ability and you're content in that space, then you're actually more efficient because you're just holding that container. It's a lot less work than holding the container of that plus the patient's container, plus the heroin identity plus all of this other stuff. That's a lot of work and instead I could efficiently sit there and hold the container for that patient and be really present for that patient and not be triggered even if they were upset, or be triggered even if they were.
Speaker 2:Like you're the best, because none of that was me. I would say it's very sweet that you feel that way. Me, I would say it's very sweet that you feel that way. Or I can understand. I can feel why you must be angry at this situation. I could say either of those things, because it didn't have to do with me, and it did. It made me more efficient. The notes didn't have to be perfect, because that's not the healing part. They just had to do enough to provide whatever they had to provide and it helped me actually be in these little mini flow episodes throughout the day with my patients, which is incredibly satisfying and incredibly healing and incredibly energetic to be in that space and it kept me, in spite of having, you know, severe MS and stuff. It kept me going for another five years and then in a much, much better way.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that, because you allowed yourself to be your authentic self. You took yourself out of the equation, out of the outcomes, again being a guide, not a god, and so you really started to to see the patients as humans, meeting them where they're at, giving them back agency over their health. That's just that.
Speaker 2:That really, truly is what being a healer is all about yeah, it's a really beautiful thing that I feel incredibly privileged to be able to experience and to have figured out in the last couple years of my work, even when my own kind of health was declining. I felt so much more satisfied with my work. I felt so much more unburdened when I came home because I could take off the white coat identity, which I always did before I crossed the threshold, and I was my home identity and that was it, and I could be replenished in that way and still always remain a healer and knowing that I was always that.
Speaker 1:So, yolanda, if the listeners wanted to reach out to you, where is the best way? What is the best way to get ahold of you or to reach out and to connect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn just under Yolanda Bogart. People are interested in learning more about this attached attachment model and actually I did a lot of techniques which I would love to talk about, a lot of techniques which are based on my PhD in neuroscience, and I went back into a cognitive behavioral. Now it's just a lot of I call them frame shifts because we're like little shifts to reframe. So I have a Facebook group called Thriving Healthcare Providers Banishing Burnout, and then I have a website at wwwframeshiftcoaching, because part of my greater why is to hopefully get a community of people that are interested and invested in learning about being a healer and then taking honestly taking back American medicine from a business entity, not just to a medical entity, but back to something that it's never truly been, which is a healing entity and something that I think patients are looking for and we're looking for.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think the modern day medicine really has eroded that patient-physician relationship, with all the constraints the time constraints, the RVUs, the lack of reimbursement. But what is one last pearl of wisdom that you would like to leave our listeners so?
Speaker 2:I think if you're feeling that you're suffering from or having kind of symptoms of burnout, the first thing I would say is that there's nothing wrong with you and it's not your fault. You're having a normal response to an abnormal situation. Okay, we all know the system needs to change, but since institutional change takes so long, right In the meantime, using a model like this, a detached attachment, will truly help you assist in setting boundaries as a white coat, but, more importantly, it'll help you maintain your authentic self of a healer Understanding your lane, understanding what you need to own, your passion, your caring, your knowledge, and rejecting what you don't need to own, what is never yours to own, which is the patient outcome, and being detached with that, because understanding that is the agency of the patient. So much of that will help you feel so much more that you are the healer that you've always wanted to be, and help you experience the fulfillment of joy of being that healer and being able to also heal yourself, which I'm really passionate about.
Speaker 1:thank you for that, because even as healers, as we heal others, we need to replenish that energy and that goodness for ourselves as well, and so these links will be in the show notes. And Yolanda, gracias por todo. Thank you very much. If you have found this episode helpful, share with a friend, because we can all use camaraderie.