The Worthy Physician Podcast
Reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine.
The Worthy Physician Podcast
Giving Yourself a Voice in the Workplace Discussing Medicine and Burnout with Dr. Warren Kane, MD
In this episode, I sat down and talked with Dr. Warren Kane, MD, a practicing psychiatrist. He shares his experience with burnout, and was able to use his tribe [family/wife] as an external meter as to what he was doing/feeling. He checks in with himself on a regular basis to see how he is doing, as he does not want to go back to being burned out.
He shares his optimism and pearls of wisdom, including for physicians to remember that we as individuals have a voice!
Having values that are similar to your organization is going to go far.
If you feel your voice is being heard and that speaks to your values/ the way you want to practice medicine you’re going to feel less burnout, you’re going to feel a sense of community.
Get help. Burnout is a risk factor for anxiety and depression…and once you hit that, it may impact your clinical skills, may impact you to need medicine.
Dr. Warren Kane, MD is a board-certified concierge psychiatrist located in Las Vegas, NV. He is the founder and CEO of Kane Psychiatry PLLC and specializes in Professional Burnout, Anxiety and Depression among High Achieving Professionals & Athletes. Dr. Kane graduated from the University of Arizona College of Medicine and completed his residency at the renowned University of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics. He is community faculty at the University of Las Vegas School of Medicine and helps educate future physicians on personal wellbeing and clinical medicine.
LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/warrenkane/
https://www.kanepsy.com/
Head to the Worthy Physician website to stay up to date on combatting physician burnout through awareness to reignite passion for medicine while normalizing the topic through regular interviews with physicians who are or who have been through the same thing.
Head over your favorite podcast listening platform. Rate and review!
Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.
Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/books
Let's connect for speaking opportunities!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/dr-shahhaque-md-as-a-speaker
Check out the free resources from The Worthy Physician:
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/freebie-downloads
Battle of the Boxes
21 Day Self Focus Journal
Hi, welcome to the worthy physician podcast. I am your host, Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque, a board certified internal medicine physician. On this episode of the worthy physician, I sat down and talked with Dr. Warren Kane, practicing psychiatrist here, we discuss medicine and burnout. And some of the things that the listener will learn are advocating for yourself as a physician, having values that are similar to your organization will go far. And if you feel that your voice is being heard, that will lessen your feeling of burnout, and then also get help. You are worth it. Burnout is a risk factor for anxiety and depression. And once you hit that, it may impact your clinical skills. It may impact you to the need of medication or the dose of medication get help sooner than later. Enjoy. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Kane for coming on and I really value your time. Can you please tell me and the listener you're who you are and what you do
Dr. Kane
01:14 - 01:40
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Sapna, for having me on, I really appreciate it. My name is Dr. Warren Kane. I'm a psychiatrist here located in Las Vegas. I own my own private practice called Cain psychiatry. really focusing on providing a high quality comprehensive psychiatric care to my patients. I'm also community faculty at the university of Las Vegas in school of medicine. So again, it's just an honor to be here and I really appreciate the opportunity.
Dr. Shah-Haque
01:40 - 01:53
Absolutely. I think we have, we both have an interest in burnout and I think we've seen different areas and you have your own experience, is that correct
Dr. Kane
01:53 - 02:10
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like who doesn't have their own experience these days in medicine with burnout. Right. Unfortunate. but you know, to a certain degree it's been helpful. It's been rewarding. And as a psychiatrist, it's given me a new perspective on burnout and, yeah, I'd love to talk about it some more.
Dr. Shah-Haque
02:12 - 02:31
Why don't we get right into it. Tell me about, can you share with us your personal story of burnout and how you ended up in private practice when a lot of physicians are going, going to be hired by either hospitals or larger corporations
Dr. Kane
02:31 - 03:36
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So let me just talk about kind of my experience with burnout. It was really early in my career, actually as a third year resident, in psychiatry, you know, we get our opportunity to Moonlight at different organizations. And so I kind of took up on that. I, I was moonlighting, during the third year, but you know, at the same time I was also doing my psychiatry kind of, residency, I guess, schedule and so ended. I ended up, whining at a local hospital. Great staff. Great. but I was working, you know, Friday night, early Monday morning. And then as soon as Monday morning hit, I was doing the psychiatry residency thing. And so basically I was working nonstop seven days a week, basically two weeks to three weeks out of the month. Oh yeah. For about six months in a row. And I, you know, I don't need to tell your listeners out there are you, but yeah, I experienced a lot of burnout kind of, you know, fatigue and ultimately not only back to, you know, how I was feeling, you know, maybe a little bit of my performance as well, but you know, it really impacted my family and, yeah, it was a hugely impactful.
Dr. Shah-Haque
03:37 - 03:46
How did that impact your family Because I think that's, that's one area where a lot of us don't open up and if you don't want to die, I will respect that.
Dr. Kane
03:47 - 04:28
You know I, yeah, absolutely. So let me tell you a little bit more about it. you know, it just makes the relationship a little bit harder and at that time it was only me and my wife and just like anybody with burnout, you know, your, your levels get drain, your energy level gets drained, your fatigue, you get become more fatigue, maybe a little bit more irritable. And I hate to, I hate to admit it, but, you know, I, the relationship was a little bit Rocky in a sense, not like, you know, super Rocky, but it was different from how it was. Right. And that's one of the things that people who experienced burnout. You'll probably notice like your friends and family will ask you, you know, something seems different with you, you know, is everything okay And usually that may be the first sign that you may be experiencing some type of burnout
Dr. Shah-Haque
04:29 - 04:37
And besides the fatigue and the potential irritability, what else manifested if, if you remember.
Dr. Kane
04:37 - 05:22
Yeah, I would say though, that was like the primary thing for me was just being a little bit more irritable and you know, what, what ended up happening to me was that I just focused way too much on work right there. Wasn't a good work-life balance. I found myself always worrying about, you know, what was going on in the hospital or who I needed to do it or what I needed to do. And it was not, it was a there was a, it was a nonstop thing that I was thinking about Monday through Friday for Monday through Friday. And the days that I did have off, it was more to recuperate and regenerate and put my energy towards, you know, myself versus kind of my relationship and growing, you know, my family and things like that. And so it just became super challenging. in that realm,
Dr. Shah-Haque
05:22 - 05:30
What helped you gain insight as to, Hey, I might need to restructure or put the brakes on working so much.
Dr. Kane
05:30 - 06:06
Yeah, no, it was my wife. Yeah. She's the best thing in my life right now. And the best huge support I would have. She kind of brought it up and I was like, you know what Yeah, it's true. I, I, you know, I'm not enjoying my life as much as I used to. Right. I used to go on date nights. We used to do all these things, like what changed and wasn't worth it. Right. And so she kind of brought it up. We, we thought about it a little bit more and she just gave me the permission, which I think is huge to be like, you know what, we don't need to move. Like, everything will be just fine. we have our whole lives ahead of us. You know, why don't we kind of go back to, you know, what we were doing.
Dr. Kane
06:06 - 06:52
And she gave me that opportunity. Luckily, the hospital I was working with was hugely, hugely receptive to that as well. and yeah, no, we kind of, I kind of broke away from the moonlighting things returned back to it's kind of normal and to its baseline, what it really taught me though. And we'll probably talk about it a little bit more is that I had to be a little bit more aware of burnout, right There's like a new Medscape study that came out saying that across the board, 30% of more of physicians in every single specialty are experiencing burnout. And so I was a little bit open to a more and, you know, that's why I wanted to start my own private practice where it a little bit more autonomy, the care that I wanted to provide. and yeah, no. So it was a huge turning point in my life.
Dr. Shah-Haque
06:52 - 07:43
That's really huge. Number one, that you were able to communicate with a significant part of your life. So number one, you had that open communication, which is a godsend, number two, you were receptive to, okay. Yeah, there might there's, there might be some truth to it and then the awareness and putting it into practice. And one thing that you really, that really hit me that you said was that you were allowed to you ever given that external permission. And this is something that I think we as physicians and maybe just people in general, a lot of times, we mean, we need that external validation to not go a hundred percent all the time with, with work.
Dr. Kane
07:44 - 08:33
Yeah, no, I, you know what, I want to give everybody the permission out there. Just like I give everyone that permission around me, you know, you don't have to go a hundred percent all the time. Right. And in my practice, I'm lucky enough to work with a lot of different ITV individuals, including a lot of different positions and you know, what, in the end, everything will be all right. It's okay to take the pace a little bit slower. It's sometimes very challenging to do when you're working in a hospital system though, but you know what the most important thing in our lives, at least this is my perspective now, right. Is, you know, our family, our supports, we want to be there for our children, for our spouse, you know, all the time. So yeah. I give people the permission out there to take a little bit of a break or to take a little bit of a break, to just think about yourself a little bit more and maybe prioritize yourself a little bit more on, on the list.
Dr. Shah-Haque
08:35 - 08:39
And how many years ago was this that you experienced burnout
Dr. Kane
08:40 - 08:45
Maybe three or four years ago I think about three years ago. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Shah-Haque
08:45 - 09:04
So besides being in private practice, which is awesome, right Just for physician autonomy, you get to deliver patient care the way you want to, how do you incorporate awareness of where you are on the burnout spectrum How do you continue that and how do you practice self care
Dr. Kane
09:04 - 10:08
Yeah. Yeah. I think about it every day, to be honest, which is kind of sad or not sad, but maybe kind of good, you know, cause I'm always aware of it because I didn't really want to return to that place ever again, when I was irritable where I was just questioning a lot of different things in my life and it's on a day-to-day basis, I'm always aware of this work life balance and how I can almost focus more on life than work. Right. This is one of the things I tell my clients out there is that it's hard to have work-life balance, right Work is huge. Life is huge. And we're trying to balance that. Yeah, let's get real. That's never going to happen. Right. What I try to tell people is try to have more focus on life than work because it's typing individuals out there. We're going to probably end up balancing it in, in the end. Right. but if we can focus more in life than work, we're going to, we're going to do ourselves better. And that's really what I do in regards to self care. Right. I try to spend time with my family. I try to engage in hobbies. I try to reconnect with past friends and family. and these are just things that really help rejuvenate me and kind of my energy level. And so, yeah, that's, that's what I do.
Dr. Shah-Haque
10:08 - 10:43
No, that's awesome because you're right. As far as physicians and other high achieving individuals, we're really driven by outcomes and goals we set for ourselves. So it's almost as if, if you change the goal to, okay, I'm going to work now. And then this time, this time almost scheduling or almost having a goal of today, I'm going to, I'm going to meditate or work on whatever your hobby is or this time is family time and really stand to keep those boundaries safe. That is that's that takes practice.
Dr. Kane
10:43 - 11:31
Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. And you know what I would tell people out there, you know, boundaries are key, right. To having a good work life balance, but also give you're giving yourself permission to have changing goals. Right. And I've really realized that, since starting my own family, is that goals change and that's okay. Right. Your goals in medical school are going to be different from the goals in residency, which are going to be different from your goals when you're an attending or when you're a professional. And that's all right. And give yourself permission to allow those with those schools to change. Maybe now you want to focus a little bit more on yourself, growing your family. Maybe you want to focus more on financial goals. That's okay, too. Right. goals are fluid, they're dynamic. but if we, if we're too rigid with them, they're never going to be good. and they're going to kind of, you know, maybe contribute to the burnout as well.
Dr. Shah-Haque
11:31 - 12:02
Like, like you, honestly, I kind of check in with myself weekly sometimes more than that, just to see where I'm at, because I think it has to be front and center of where am I at on this burnout scale or feeling tired or fearing feeling irritable because sometimes it's so subtle, it's so subtle that it can creep up on you and you look back and you say, how did I get here And once you're there, you don't want to return to that place of just dread, just pure dread.
Dr. Kane
12:03 - 13:03
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I always think about burnout as a scale and very different from people out there. In my opinion, it's not a switch, right It's not like you're burned out. You're not burned out. Everybody on a certain level is feeling burnt out. I know there's just like this huge debate about even if one should use the word burnout, but I like using it. but you know, the other terminology you can say it's just stressed, right You who classifies burnout it's for chronic workplace stressor. So on any given day physicians out there will feel more stress and less stress. I just like to say more physicians out there may feel more burnt out and less burnt out, but it's always important to think about it on a day-to-day basis. Because if we have good insight as to what's contributing, we're going to figure out answers on how to make it feel better. Right. You know, not all the times that people feel in burnout due to workload, although it's most common case, they may be feeling burnt out because there's not a good community and they're not going along with their colleagues or their bosses. If you can kind of understand that and you can make different changes in your life, which can really help lower the stress. Right.
Dr. Shah-Haque
13:04 - 14:18
Right. And I know that you and I had a really good talk prior to this session. And I agree that burnout is, is a scale. Where am I on it today It's like a pain scale, but in a much larger existential sense, moving forward on that, you know, yes, the system needs to change, but I cannot do that with one person as one person. I'm not, I'm not in the insurance company. I'm not, I'm not in political office and I'm not an administrator though. There's also research showing that administrators are also burned out with the lack of staffing, et cetera. That's another topic. But I think also changing the way we perceive things also in life, in all realms also depends on where we are at with stress and external factors. So by going internal and saying, okay, what am I feeling today Is it stressed Okay. Why And then what is contributing to that And then what can I do to lessen that sometimes it is a change of pace. It might be a change of employment or it might be changing the way we communicate with people. sometimes it's addressing the elephant in the room.
Dr. Kane
14:18 - 14:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you a hundred percent, you know, practicing good mindfulness or good insight into your day-to-day life is going to be so helpful for all the people out there. Because, you know, as physicians, we're always working, what was working hard, we're working fast and sometimes we just don't prioritize ourselves. So if you can give yourself 10 minutes out of the day, 15 minutes out of the day to really just reflect and see how you're doing, checking in with yourself. Right. that could be hugely immense, hugely helpful.
Dr. Shah-Haque
14:48 - 14:54
And it's almost the culture of medicine then not to keep going, going, going like a race car driver.
Dr. Kane
14:55 - 15:41
I think that's kind of the culture of medicine too. And that's probably like another topic for another day, but you know, what kind of brain with that, you know, in medical school, right Even pre-med nowadays pre-med medical school residency, we're either comparing ourselves to other people or maybe it's just a norm to always put, you know, your patients before yourself, you know, but these days we want to achieve good work-life balance. because we need to take care of ourselves. If we aren't able to take care of ourselves, we're never going to be able to take care of our patients and the old historical mindset of putting everything for the patient first, all the time. Although I agree with it to a certain degree, can lead to burnout, which will lead to, you know, changing careers or ending careers prematurely. And that's never going to help out patients. Right. So think about the bigger picture.
Dr. Shah-Haque
15:41 - 15:49
And what do you think has attributed to your, to your growth, whether it is professionally or personally
Dr. Kane
15:49 - 16:30
I think it's family, you know, I'm going to, it's like an old record, I guess, or what a broken record. but no, it's, it's my family. and it's really something that's been grounded in me. And you know, maybe it's culturally, maybe it's how I grew up, but my family are huge supports, the huge believers in me. There are people that I go to whenever I'm feeling stressed and they're always able to provide me with really great insight into how I'm feeling and how I'm doing right. Because sometimes we need that third person perspective. It's like any of my clients, no one wants to be burnt out, but why by the time they find themselves burnt out, it's already kind of too late. Right. so you probably need people to check in with you or people who know you the best to really give you that feedback and be open to that feedback.
Dr. Shah-Haque
16:31 - 16:54
Sure. My role has always been kind of have those two or three people that you can go to, whether it's, I mean, when people say, Hey, text or call me any time, you really want to find those two or three people, five people that you can literally text or call at any time, three o'clock in the morning, Hey, I'm not doing well and they're out there. You just have to choose wisely.
Dr. Kane
16:54 - 17:03
Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, if you can, get attuned to that, if you, if you can find those people, I think that that's going to put you out far above others
Dr. Shah-Haque
17:03 - 17:16
Now, how do you overcome the culture of medicine where you're not supposed to talk about your feelings and you're just supposed to push through, how do you, I mean, I've thrown it out the window. I'm assuming that you've done the same, but
Dr. Kane
17:17 - 18:14
Yeah. Yeah. I guess to a certain degree too, you know, there's going to be different people in medicine and we, you know, we don't, we, we all know that. And again, I think it's about finding people who can support your well, right. And there's people who are going to be the opposite people who drain you too. Right. Right. So having those boundaries as well, and just having an open communication with those people who can support you, whether it be your colleagues, your mentors, even your, your bosses to a certain extent, right. If you feel open enough to go with them and talk with them about how things can improve. But on the other hand, there may be bosses out. There will PCU S the opposite, right. Who will see that, you know, we'll interpret you feeling burnt out as you complaining. And so you don't want that either. So kind of, you know, reading the room in a sense, and getting, getting an understanding of who can really support you, that can be, the most helpful thing to do. So that's what I typically do. I know there's people out there who won't really help me, who won't really recharge me. And those aren't really the people I go to first,
Dr. Shah-Haque
18:14 - 18:25
I tend to call those energy vampires and I avoid them like the plague, just for my own personal wellbeing. Again, boundaries, are you in a much better place now
Dr. Kane
18:26 - 19:22
I think so, but, you know, I, I guess I'm kind of, this is a typical psychiatrist answer, right It's like, you know, where I'm at in life right now is where I want to be. And I find a lot of happiness and enjoyment with where I'm at, but that doesn't mean it can change in the future. Right. And so if you try to pick another job with another hospital or another organization to kind of fit my goals and needs for my family, but right now I really enjoy the work that I do. I feel like I get a lot of meaning from it. and it's hugely rewarding. Right. And that's such a thing to say nowadays because, a lot of people don't find that enjoyment in their work, unfortunately. Right. and a lot, a lot of people, even outside of medicine, don't enjoy what they're doing. That's, what's really contributed to this whole great resignation. You know what I wish for everybody out there is to find something that they not only enjoy and can connect with, but something that they can find themselves doing, like in the long-term. Right. so yeah,
Dr. Shah-Haque
19:22 - 19:38
Absolutely. What we're talking about is not just in medicine, it's not just with physicians, that's an, a lot of healthcare workers and it's seeing, I think you worded it very beautifully with the great resignation. Now you have recently written an article, is that correct
Dr. Kane
19:38 - 20:24
yeah. I, I've actually written a lot of different articles to a certain degree. and I also have a free ebook out there for others, to try to help educate, you know, just patients on, on getting good psychiatric care. But yeah. so the Maricopa medical society, they asked me to submit an article about, physician wellbeing and burnout, and I've actually been featured on their podcast as well, kind of shout out. but I talk about, and, you know, physician wellbeing, wellness, things that we can do to improve our wellbeing. one of the things that I talk about hugely just advocating for ourselves, right My perspective of burnout like differs from everybody. But my perspective of burnout is that it's really rooted in our work. And when it roots in our work, it kind of fits our entire other lives.
Dr. Kane
20:24 - 20:59
And other stressors in our lives really contribute to that burnout too. But if we can improve our work working conditions, it can have a huge impact on how we're feeling. And so one of the things that I advocate for any physician out there is to really try to advocate for yourself. And if you find yourself in an environment where you're not able to advocate for yourself, you know, maybe, maybe think about, you know, other opportunities out there too, because they weren't going to be if we're going to be in this situation or in a hospital system, but it doesn't respect us as individuals, as human beings. and the fact that we need work-life balance, you know, things won't change.
Dr. Shah-Haque
20:59 - 21:34
Oh, that's incredibly big burnout is a big passion of mine. I think we've we've we share that for sure. And number one, we have to use our voice. We have a great mind as physicians and we've learned soft skills and other examination skills, et cetera, in order, even negotiation skills, we were trying to negotiate a treatment plan with the patient. So it's great if we can culminate those skills together and to advocate for ourselves, otherwise we're stuck in a repetitive, abusive cycle.
Dr. Kane
21:34 - 22:14
You know, a lot of people will talk about feeling powerless. Right I talked to a lot of my colleagues and I can tell you, I talked to a lot of my medical school friend, my residents everybody's feeling burnt out, meet. They're not talking about it. Maybe they're not reporting it, everybody's feeling it. And so a lot of people say, I feel powerless in my system. I don't have a voice that could be a symptom of burnout, right Yes. Get symptoms of burnout, but feeling like you don't have any power or say to kind of change where you're at. And I would say, as physicians, we're hugely important to the medical system were hugely important to the hospital. we have a say, okay. And so being an advocate or trying to advocate for yourself is going to be one of the most important things you can do.
Dr. Kane
22:14 - 22:42
And if you feel like you don't have that voice, if you don't have that option again, you know, we have options as physicians and we have job security. And so there's going to be other opportunities out there for you to switch if that's what you choose to do. Now, again, it's kind of speaking from a place of privilege, in a sense of having that job opportunity, that growth, that opportunity to leave, you know, not being bound by contract, but, yeah, we need to consider it and we need to understand as physicians, we have a voice
Dr. Shah-Haque
22:42 - 23:16
And the nice thing about physician being a physician, and, you know, it might depend on where one is in the spectrum. Maybe if they're closer to retirement, that might be a different issue. You know, there are also nonclinical jobs. There are, we, as physicians are very innovative and there are a lot of opportunities to use our creative and critical thinking skills and other avenues. But one thing that I've always believed in is trying to number one, really know your worth. And then also try to negotiate that because that's really, that's, I think a skill that we're not taught in medical school, but can be cultivated.
Dr. Kane
23:16 - 24:02
Yeah. I would say out there too, you know, maybe it's not an option for everybody to start their own private practice and there's going to be different hospital institutions out there in different organizations that are going to prioritize positions differently too. Right. And so what I talk about with a lot of my clients is a lot of education, a lot of information, right If you can find those hospital systems that you connect with, that you have good colleagues with, that you feel comfortable in, you know, it's not like it's not like an extreme, right. You don't need to just quit medicine, start up your own thing. But if you can find those job opportunities that really speak to your values, that's going to help improve your longevity, help decrease burnout things along those lines. So I encourage everybody out there, you know, there's opportunities out there, right And there's so many things that you can do, you know, don't limit yourself,
Dr. Shah-Haque
24:02 - 24:31
Realigning or aligning with your values as a, as a person that's, that's invaluable, right There's no price that you can put on that because we also know that when we are working in a system or in a place, whatever, walk of life, whatever job, if those values do not align with who you are, then there's a disconnect that drives burnout. But it also, who wants to live like that life satisfaction all around just tank.
Dr. Kane
24:31 - 25:16
Yeah. I think, you know, speaking to that, having good values or having values that are similar to the organization or your employer is going to go far, right If you are in a job where, as a psychiatrist, let's say you're seeing patients for 15 minutes, 20 patients per day, and you don't really enjoy that type of medicine. You want to enjoy spending more time with your patients. That's going to contribute to burnout. And you've got to identify that real quick. However, if you're part of a hospital organization that has maybe 30 minute appointments or 60 minute appointments, and you feel like your voice is being heard and that speaks to your values and the way you want to practice medicine, you're going to feel less burnout. You're going to feel a sense of community. You know, you're actually might thrive in that system a lot better. Right. And that's nice as compared to the other system,
Dr. Shah-Haque
25:16 - 26:17
Right No, I, I agree. that's actually where, so I'm internal medicine and I'm in real Kansas, even though the clinic in which I work is hospital own physicians do have a lot of autonomy where in the practice that I'm at, there's I work with great colleagues and I actually, I actually can go to administration or even the office manager with concerns. you know, we're also friends outside of clinic, the values align with my, with my personal values. It's it's non-profit and that's, that's just my choice also the way that it also it's, it just makes it a lot easier to communicate, Hey, this is my concern. Or, Hey, why don't we, can we look at structuring the schedule this way, do this, do, if we can consider doing this way, it's just, and it's not just me. It's, it's the other physicians. And so, you know, there's a lot of collaboration, which I can count on my, my colleagues to cover me and I will cover them.
Dr. Kane
26:18 - 26:47
Yeah, no, having a good community is so impactful too, or too impactful on the burnout scale. If you have a good community that you can go to professional community, work colleagues, you know, people that you can go to for support people who have your back, that's going to be hugely helpful, right. To the opposite. No one wants to cover for you. you feel like everybody's out for ya. you're not gonna, you're not gonna thrive in that situation.
Dr. Shah-Haque
26:47 - 26:51
Correct. Now tell me what is your mission
Dr. Kane
26:51 - 28:05
Yeah. One of the things that I want to say to other people out there is that, you know, to have hope, and I guess, you know, kind of changes on a day-to-day basis, but you know, the thing that I like to tell physicians out there is to have hope and that there's opportunity out there. And if you're feeling burnt out, know that there's options and you have choices, right. And to know that feeling burnt-out, and you're not alone. Like I said, that Medscape article that just recently came out or that survey has shown that 30% or even sometimes more physicians are experiencing burnout in your specialty. And there may be a bias there too. Right. I can tell you personally, everyone I talk to is experiencing burnout and everybody copes with it differently, but the most healthiest way to cope with it, I feel like it's to talk about it, to seek out opportunities where we solve what's causing your burnout. You know, I don't want to see anybody out there resulting in any substances or to kind of go down this pathway where now they're thinking about a career shift, you know, as physicians we got into it because we wanted to help people out and that's still the cause out there, or that's still the case out there where we can help others out there really have a rewarding mission, but we could also do it, not sacrificing our wellbeing. So that's what I would like to say to, to your listeners out there.
Dr. Shah-Haque
28:05 - 28:11
No, I appreciate that. And I know that, you would definitely say get help.
Dr. Kane
28:11 - 28:48
I say, yeah, I still, I tell that to people, you know, I tell it to my clients, but I also tell to my colleagues get help sooner than later, right Because the quicker that can get help or professional help, you're going to be able to make different types of changes that might be a little bit less intrusive and might put you on the path better. You know, I think burnout is a risk factor to anxiety and depression. And once you start hitting that anxiety and depression that may Patrick clinical skills that may pack when you need medicines, or if you need medicines at higher dosages for longer durations, the quicker that we can kind of nip it in the button in a sense, right The quicker that we can address it, the better we're going to be
Dr. Shah-Haque
28:48 - 28:57
Sure. One reason that we know that physicians do not report such things is because of the fear of losing a license.
Dr. Kane
28:58 - 29:52
It's really a sad case. No, and I think every state needs to address it differently. Maybe the wording or the questions that they're asking, you know, the fact that somebody may have a mental health diagnosis or may have mental health symptoms. it doesn't mean that they're not good clinicians and good practitioners, right And we're again, going, using this old antiquated, you know, approach to mental health, seeing it as a disease and a disorder and something that we don't want. that's not the case. The system that is out there right now is contributing to the burnout. And I think it's really unfair for us to really pigeonhole people into a situation where they have to either lie or they have to hide the fact that they need help in treatment. Right. This is the idea of stigma. if we can, if we can create better policies out there that are more supportive to physicians, we're going to be the better for it. Right. And as a community, as a country. yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Shah-Haque
29:52 - 30:11
No, I agree. A hundred percent. And I know in Kansas that those, those questions have changed. I believe as a 2019, those questions have changed as to, you know, do you suffer from depression Do you suffer from anxiety into, do you suffer from anxiety, depression, or substance abuse that would impede your ability to
Dr. Kane
30:11 - 30:36
Yeah, no things, things are changing. And again, I want to be hopeful. I want events, podcasts to be uplifting, right Yeah. Taking out there, which is great. Again, the stigma is decreasing. I feel like it's not the opposite stigma. Isn't getting worse out there. Right This is one of the reasons why we're having this great opportunity talking right now, mental health, especially in the professional physician, community, things are optimistic. I'm optimistic.
Dr. Shah-Haque
30:36 - 31:02
I share that optimism with you. I mean, again, we're creative beings. We're really smart people. We're not just doctors where we are fluid in what we can do and the way we can think it, it's, it's amazing. The, the, the brain and drive and motivation is, is, is there, we're seeing it more and more in the, I think the upcoming medical school, medical students, and I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see what they do.
Dr. Kane
31:03 - 31:20
Yeah, absolutely. Now every year, things are getting better. and, you know, medical students, like, you know, I can't imagine going back to medical school, but, the students that I've interacted with, the residents that I interact with, that I mentor, I'm hugely optimistic for the medical field.
Dr. Shah-Haque
31:20 - 31:31
Yes. And are there any last pearls of wisdom that you would like to leave our listeners with and then also, how could we best connect with you
Dr. Kane
31:32 - 32:34
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the Pearl wisdom, Larry shared a little bit earlier, but it's something that we can always reinforce is get help sooner than later. If you're feeling something burnt out, reach out to family, reach out to friends, reach out to professional help. If you can do that sooner than later, you're going to do yourself a huge favor. You're going to do your future self, a huge favor, right Talk about it. If you're already starting, experiencing anxiety, depression, all the more reason to seek professional help, sooner or later, anxiety and depression won't resolve on its own. It tends to get worse. It tends to need more medications, more treatment, more interventions, assuming that you can get help, the better it will be. Your listeners can connect with me by going to my website, www.caneside.com, which is K a N E P S y.com. All my information is out there. I try to leave all my social media, all my articles, all the podcasts I've been featured on. and hopefully it can just be a resource to professionals out there, so that you can either book a call with me or just feel free to reach out to me in general too. but yeah, that would be the best way.
Dr. Shah-Haque
32:35 - 32:39
Well, thank you very much for your time, Warren. It was as always a pleasure.
Dr. Kane
32:40 - 32:45
Thanks so much stuff now again for having me on. And, yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.
Dr. Shah-Haque
32:45 - 32:53
Thank you for joining us today. Subscribe, tell a friend, follow us at www.theworthyphysician.com.