The Worthy Physician Podcast
Reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine.
The Worthy Physician Podcast
A Conversation on Stress, Compassion, and The Way of the Peaceful Warrior with Dan Millman
Discover how to find your inner peace and purpose amidst the chaos with our special guest, Dan Millman, author of "Way of the Peaceful Warrior." Join us as we navigate the critical issue of physician burnout and moral injury, especially in light of the pandemic's impact. Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque and Millman discuss the demanding nature of the medical profession and how it can often strip away humanity and compassion. Learn the concept of the peaceful warrior—maintaining a peaceful heart while confronting life's stresses with a warrior spirit. Understand how viewing daily life as spiritual weight training can fortify you to face greater challenges ahead.
Ever wondered how adversity can actually be beneficial? We explore the value of "voluntary adversity," whether it comes through physical training, intimate relationships, or raising children. Millman shares practical stress management techniques, emphasizing the power of living in the present moment and simple practices like "here and now, breathe and relax." This perspective is vital for professionals, especially doctors, who must reignite their humanity and passion for their work. We also address the psychological and physical toll of physician burnout and share insights on resilience.
In our final segment, we dive into the practical philosophy of the peaceful warrior's approach to living. Highlighting the importance of action over mere thoughts and feelings, Millman discusses willpower and the essence of peaceful living. Learn from his experiences speaking at San Quentin Prison and his personal journey, including the metaphor of learning to unicycle, to understand perseverance and continuous improvement. We also explore the distinction between self-worth and self-esteem and the critical need for self-compassion and balanced health practices. Tune in to gain valuable tools for maintaining both your physical and mental well-being.
Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.
Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
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Battle of the Boxes
21 Day Self Focus Journal
How do you find peace in today's chaotic world? How do we find our sense of purpose, of balance? Today, I have the amazing opportunity of discussing these questions and taking a deeper dive with Dan Millman, author of the Way of the Peaceful Warrior, who has inspired millions and is now here to discuss with us and impart his wisdom upon us today. Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, dr Sapna Shah-Hawk, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine.
Speaker 1:So you were saying as background yeah, as background, just physician burnout and moral injury has really come to a head, I think during the pandemic, and I think many of us have experienced it or even had signs and symptoms. But we didn't have the verbiage because, over the 100 plus episodes I've done, one common thing that I have found is that the signs and symptoms of burnout and they manifest differently, but the overall category is just chalk it up to stress, working too many hours, and that's that's not it From inpatient medicine. If you're coding somebody, you lose the patient. You have to be okay and just move on to the next patient to admit or the next problem to address, without really honoring the loss of a person, without any type of debriefing.
Speaker 1:The amount or the lack of control that physicians have in the workplace because of private equity coming in, scope, creep insurance, big pharma, lack of reimbursement from the insurance companies there's so many things that drive burnout.
Speaker 1:So it is a system issue, but many of us chose this profession in order to, but the culture of medicine really takes its toll, I think, with really wiping away that humanity. You always have to be objective, always have an answer, don't show emotion, emotion, and that's very hard to do when we're one human being working with another human being and we're not treating a disease, we're treating a person. And when I came across your book the way of the peaceful warrior is the first one I read it. Just it changed the way, I think, because it drove home in such a tangible way of living in the present moment, and you did a beautiful job walking the reader through how you went from having very similar characteristics of what I might classify as a type A high performer perfectionist which parallels a physician to being able to separate your complete identity from accolades, from achievements, from titles, and then juxtapose that to the journey of Socrates and his story. Just when did we as human beings lose the ability to have compassion for ourselves and others on a regular basis?
Speaker 2:Because what he went through would be my worst nightmare well you, you've opened up a floodgate of information I'd like to hear and let me start with the context that any uh, author, teacher, speaker, pundit all they can do is remind people of what they already know at deeper levels. But we tend to forget so. So I'm going to offer these kinds of reminders and where am I coming from? That may be different from other people you've spoken with. Well, this whole idea of peaceful warrior the term actually came about when I was an assistant professor at Oberlin College in Ohio and I was teaching a class that combined Aikido. And I was teaching a class that combined Aikido, the martial art, aikido, and Tai Chi, and I was going to call it for the school catalog the Way of the Warrior. But that didn't quite seem to fit because these are more internal arts, they're not aggressive arts, they're more receptive. And so a light bulb went on and I said, hey, why don't I call it the way of the peaceful warrior? And that's when the term first came to me. When I coined that idea I didn't know it would become a kind of brand. But actually I recognize all of us, each of us and all of us, as peaceful warriors in training, because we're all seeking to live with a more peaceful heart in the midst of our busy work, stressful work, daily lives, families and so on. But at the same time there are times we need a warrior spirit. I don't have to tell physicians that who coded somebody? And it's not about fighting except those inner demons of insecurity, self-doubt, that sort of thing. But it's more about rolling up our sleeves and recognizing that daily life is a form of spiritual weight training and if we don't lift any weights we don't get any stronger. And sometimes climbing out of a deep dark hole can give us the strength to climb the mountain. A deep dark hole can give us the strength to climb the mountain. So the way I view daily life is well.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I remind audiences when I was speaking that I said we can disagree. I like it when we disagree because if we agree on everything, only one of us is necessary. So I welcome disagreement. But I hope we can agree on this. I ask people have you ever experienced, raise your hand if you've experienced physical, emotional or mental pain in your life? Of course all the hands go up and I go okay. Well then, can we agree on this? That because of that adversity, that difficulty, that challenge, wouldn't you say you're a little bit wiser now, a little bit stronger, maybe even have a different sense of perspective on what's the big stuff and what's the little stuff? And so I bring up the idea, sapna, of voluntary adversity. We intuit that, the benefits of adversity. We don't have to pretend to like it when some crap happens, but we can keep that thread of attention that I overcame a lot to get where I am today.
Speaker 2:I'm not just talking schooling, but adversity and relationships and everything else, and I can get through this. So, for example, I ask people, how many of you do any kind of physical training, fitness training or sport, past sport and hands go up and I go. That's a form of voluntary adversity. Life is easier if you don't take on that challenge. How many of you have been involved in an intimate relationship for more than, say, two weeks? And people chuckle and I say, yeah, that's a form of voluntary adversity. My wife and I have been married almost 50 years now and she's the love of my life, but we still bump heads occasionally regularly. I think last time was, maybe this morning. So the point is, relationships are not easy. Someone once called it the best seminar in town in a relationship, and that's with patient, not just with intimate.
Speaker 2:Or how many of you have raised children? Voluntary adversity Three wonderful, bright daughters. But it's not easy, as we all know. There's that saying mature adults don't raise children, children make mature adults. So all those things are true. And I say, how many of you have been involved in the world of business or medicine? Voluntary adversity you take on that significant challenge, not just the schooling, all the years of schooling. But then you know, people ask me oh, you must love your work, dan, don't you love traveling? I've been to 32 countries. I said what part of travel am I supposed to love? Is it putting my luggage in the overhead bin, getting my seat on the plane? Sitting there on a flying tube for hours, sitting there in a flying tube for hours? So we all have things about our occupations, our calling, our careers that we don't particularly like. It just comes with the territory. But what you were talking about, physician burnout, I'd be interested in hearing from you now about whether you mean physical burnout or more psychological burnout. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:That's a great question and I would say it's all the above, because if the psychological is not addressed, it manifests as physical Right. If we don't address the emotional toll, the psychological toll, and if the listener has not experienced that fantastic, reach out to me and let me know your formula, your secret, because this is a demanding profession and we chose it. We chose it. So I'm not going to negate the fact that I mentally, physically and spiritually chose to go into medicine and I would make the same choice again. Having said that, for, for example, when I don't address my stress not necessarily acutely, but, let's say, chronic, such as raising kids, lack of sleep, um, things that I can't change but they still bother me because I'm human if, if I don't acknowledge it, it manifests for me as muscle tension or gastritis.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And Woody Allen said it in his own particular way. He said I don't get angry, I just grow a tumor instead. And those things are funny, but they're not necessarily true, and I'm going to get into why that's fair. Let's address stress, because that's of course endemic in the profession. So let's let's address that. You know, stress happens when the mind resists what's happening. Life will arise as it does. Life comes at us in waves of change. We can't always predict or control, but we can learn to surf. That is a life skill, surfing those waves of change, unexpected, the uncontrollable. And so we could say you know what I sometimes people mention I'm so stressed, I go show it to me, put it in my hand, let me have a look at it. They can't, because stress is an idea, it's uh, it's a way to describe a feeling, maybe internal pressure building up in our head, muscle tension and so on. So two people can be on a roller coaster about to go down the big dip and they're both screaming, but one is screaming with excitement and the other is screaming with terror. Why People respond differently to different situations, as we know, a young man came up to me once After a talk I gave at a college and he said, dan, I understand you do consultations with people one-on-one and I don't advertise that. But he, I mentioned it in the course of the talk and he said, you know, I know you probably charge a lot of money for your account, your, but what can you tell a poor college student for a dollar? And he smiled and he handed me a dollar and I smiled back and told him six words that comprised a lifetime practice that could change his life. Six words. And those six words are here and now breathe and relax. Now, why those six words? Well, the here and now part. You know, anybody who's seen the Peaceful Warrior movie or read my book, or read the Power of Now or Ram Dass' book, be here Now. They know all about you know, we all say it's good to live in the present moment, but why and people think it's some kind of practice like you have to concentrate particularly hard to live in the present. Actually, they don't, because physically, our bodies can only exist in the present moment.
Speaker 2:It's the mind that makes a fundamental error, which is we mistake what we call the past. We mistake that for reality. But the past is gone, but we cling to it through these neural impulses in our brain we call memory. So the past is a set of memories and I go no, what's really happening is you're showing me an image in this present moment that reminds you of something, your brain, of what you call the past. The past does not exist.
Speaker 2:Okay, so how about the future? The future is our imagination. We can plan our day. We can imagine, let's see, I have to run this errand, drop off clothes at the cleaner and then do this. But the day rarely turns out the way we thought it was going to turn out Exactly.
Speaker 2:So neither memory nor imagination completely accurate, both wonderful human capacities. We have the ability to imagine and dream and to remember the past and learn from it. Great. But when we start mistaking it for reality, see. So living in the present moment is more a realization than a practice. It's a realization of the illusory nature of what we call past and future, and it's possible that really what we have is the eternal present. Eternal present now and now and now. So that's the here and now part, recognizing our reality, because it's our moment of power, it's our moment of sanity.
Speaker 2:The rest is complication. And in fact, barbara Rasp, a wonderful writer, she said the lesson is simple, the student is complicated, and the problems in business, the problems in medicine, are not usually the work. You just do the best you can. Given your education, your skills, your experience. You do the best you can in the moment. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. So we just do what we can. That's not the problem. It's the personality, the complications we create about our lives.
Speaker 2:Now I mentioned I was going to talk about stress.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the breathe and relax part here and now.
Speaker 2:Breathe and relax, because anybody. Well, let me step back for a moment and talk about stress Again. Stress is a phenomenon. Stress will not hurt us. Now, anybody who's read Hans Celie or studied stress, they go no. Stress has a lot of effects on our immune system, our psychoimmunology and all that stuff. But actually it's not stress that does it. It's our response to stress, which is to unconsciously tense our muscle. Can you imagine, can anybody listening to this, imagine feeling very stressed but totally relaxed at the same time? It's like, oh, I'm so stressed right now. So you see, stress and relaxation is a very different creature from stress and tension, and it's the unconscious tension and the inhibited breathing that as a result of what we consider as a stressful situation.
Speaker 2:So the two things that are an antidote to stress and really do help a lot to mitigate any negative effects of stress is to remember simply to do two things Take a deep breath, let it out, as I used to tell my daughters when they were little. Breathe in the good stuff, breathe out the bad stuff, set your troubles free. It's a very profound psychophysical exercise. Call it a powerful placebo then, if you wish, because we're not literally breathing out toxins, but the feeling that we are of any negativity toxins, tension and the feeling that we are of any negativity toxins, tension and the feeling that we're breathing in light, energy and healing. That's just an idea, a placebo that we can make use of, since a third medicine is placebo bedside manner and everything in the confidence of the doctor, it's really powerful. We've seen all the study.
Speaker 2:So breathe and relax. Take a deep breath, shake loose, and that is under our conscious control. No matter what's going on in our life, events whirling around us, we can take a breath and we can relax the body. If we can tense the body, we can relax it. And here's the thing.
Speaker 2:There was a man who was seeking more energy and he saw it in magic, green powders from a lake in the Andes and all kinds of energy healers and whatnot, but he still didn't feel as much. He thought I should be more energetic. So one day, when he got older, he climbed the sacred mountain. He knew, he sensed the answer was at the top of the mountain and he got up and he cried up to the heavens and said fill me full of energy and light. He said I'm ready. And because of the sincerity of his plea, a voice thundered down from the heavens, or maybe in his own mind, and it said I'm always filling you, but you keep leaking. And that's the human condition. There's no lack of energy in the world. We have it from people, the sunlight, from the food we eat, the air we breathe. Some say it's not just air, prana or chi, but we're breathing in light and energy. There's plenty of energy, but we leak. And the two primary leaks are unnecessary tension.
Speaker 2:Throughout our day we remember to shake, loose, relax, do whatever we're doing with minimum effort. And the second thing is remember to breathe, because you know what? If you're taking a selfie, I guarantee you you're not breathing. If someone's taking a picture of you, you're not breathing. Most of us very rarely actually remember to take a breath when we're pouring liquid into a vial or doing any detailed work. There's even a like there's a word for it keyboard apnea, where we stop breathing many times during the day. So remembering just every once in a while when we're sitting down, as we stand up, take a breath. So this is a very practical antidote to the stress we encounter in everyday life. Otherwise, we can talk around it and talk about stress, how to heal it and the effects, but that's a straightforward approach. So I wanted to share that, as well as the fact that I think this is a good reminder for any physician.
Speaker 2:I'm going to propose that our parents did the best they could in raising us. Now some people will go oh yeah, my parents were loving, compassionate, attentive. You know, though, parents screw up all the time. I know I did as a parent. There's no success in parenting. You just do the best you can. But the point is within their wound, their blind spots, their pain. You know, disturbed people disturb other people, people disturb other people, and they were doing the best they knew how, within their limitation, whether they were kind and attentive or cruel and abusive, they were doing the best they knew how, in their own wounds and own blind spot and anger issues, whatever. In the same way, every single day, we do the best we can, by definition, not against some 100% perfection standard, but just the best we could that day. Some days are better than the others. So instead of criticizing ourselves which constructive criticism you know how to improve and learn and train. Of course that's important, but not the harsh self-criticism oh I screwed up, oh this is my fault or whatever. I think it's important for people to know I did my best, pat themselves on the back now and then, in addition to beating themselves up. So that's one thing. I would remind physicians who are really under the gun in terms of pressure and stress and people's expectation. Oh, nobody is comfortable up on a pedestal. So you know, that's some of the things that came up for me that I wanted to share, particularly with physicians whom I admire greatly.
Speaker 2:I've had the blessings of pretty good internal health. I'll be 79 in February and I'm doing pretty well. I still train and stay active, but genetics plays a role too. But I've had orthopedic oh my goodness two spinal surgeries, a right knee, left hip replacement. I've had so many surgeries for orthopedic things. Being a former gymnast and having a motorcycle crash and shattered my right leg and all that stuff. So the point is I've come to really appreciate not torn retina retinal surgery. I've come to deeply appreciate doctors' humanity and their skills and experience and I believe that peaceful warrior which is all of us, peaceful warrior in training, we can make good money doing what we fundamentally enjoy or find suitable for our talent while serving other people. And that hopefully describes position.
Speaker 2:You know whether, whether a doctor's motives was just to serve people and to help alleviate pain and to help repair people and their lives, or to make a lot of money, that's all great Motives, don't matter. But here we are and you speak not as a physician but as a patient. It's such a valuable occupation, it's such a wow cherished. But you know that was it Hippocrates who said physician, heal thyself. So you know physicians like, for example, when somebody comes to me for a consultation and says, dan, I have an emotional problem or I have a spiritual problem or I have a psychological, existential problem, I still ask three questions and those questions are you eating? Are you getting regular, moderate exercise? First of all, are you staying active? Are you making time to do some physical exercise. The body is meant to move, to stretch, to breathe deeply. Are you doing some regular activity? The second thing is are you eating a balanced diet for you? Notice, I didn't say are you eating a vegetarian, locally grown, organic, this diet or that diet? No, just eat a little more of what's good for you, a little less of what's not.
Speaker 2:The point is, physicians aren't really trained that much in medical school and nutrition. No, we're not, and they have to read magazines like anybody else. What's the latest? And it's changing all the time. It seems back and forth, because science is two steps forward, one step back. We know that, and it depends on who's paying for the study. Exactly, yeah, but still just find out. See, I believe that there is no best book, no best teacher, no best philosophy or religion or path or diet or system of exercise or martial art or anything else. There's only the best for each of us at a given time of our life. Life is an experiment. We have to find out what works best for us. So the best diet for you? Experiment. Find out what that is, what supports your health and your energy, and, yeah, be guided by the latest research, but also trust your instincts too, because we're the experts on our own body. So those are two things regular exercise, balanced diet and third, what do you think, get enough rest? Of course these are three things physicians don't do at all in medical school. No, they're horrible examples, right? They eat crap, they don't get enough rest and residency too, and they don't do much exercise because they're too busy studying and doing and practicing. So physicians have to be a good example.
Speaker 2:Albert Schweitzer said, in influencing other people, example is not the main thing, it's the only thing. So when I see a physician, if they look unhealthy, I'm going to go elsewhere. We need to. By the way, looking healthy doesn't mean looking like an athlete. We're each like flowers in a vase. We contribute to the beauty of the whole. People don't have to look a certain way, but they do have to have a certain vitality and energy level. And we know the body-mind interaction. We know the somaticization of stress and whatnot. I think it's important for physicians to take care of themselves, heal themselves. It's the old cliche about putting on your own oxygen mask before somebody else's. So take care of yourself and start that. And, by the way, I recommend dream big but start small and then connect the dots.
Speaker 2:And that's yeah, I'm going to say thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for because you're right and a lot of the culture in medical school and residency. It's like drinking if you worked elsewhere for the same amount of hours, it would be just never calculate your hourly wage, your hourly wage. Having said that, thank you for bringing forth to put on your own oxygen mask first, because we get stuck. Many of us get stuck, myself included. I had been in that rut of I have to say yes to everything. I'm not going to be a good doctor if I say no. So it goes back to the people pleasing and I've curtailed that quite a bit. But thank you for giving the listener permission to do that.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're very welcome, Because people who wear uniforms the public doesn't look past the uniform, whether it's nurse, doctor, they're in scrubs, they've got the stethoscope, whatever it is, and they don't see the person, the person there beneath all the garb. I have compassion for doctors. It's a tough profession and some doctors are better at it than others in terms of arranging their schedule, you know, and so on. Others just don't have boundaries and they're just there to help all the time on call, literally in life. And when you're juggling family and everything else, I can't imagine Sometimes you want to climb the wall, like that cat I saw climbing behind you. Yeah, earlier, yeah, my heart goes out to doctors with gratitude and with compassion as well.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that and with you being a world-renowned gymnast, a college professor, having many journeys in life, many life experiences, how did you start to separate yourself from being attached to the titles or accolades and to being Dan having a conversation, like we're having a conversation now?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's a very good question, important one. There are people who retire from, say, being a police officer or a career military or well obviously, physician or teacher, and they have an identity crisis. They have a very difficult time retiring because they have been saying all along I am a doctor, I am a teacher, I am an actor, I am an athlete. And rather than tying one's identity to the profession, maybe it's better focusing on the practice I practice medicine, I practice practice. I practice medicine, I practice acting, I practice athletics Because it's easier to stop practicing something and turn and practice something else than saying I'm no longer who I was and so, rather than tying one's identity to that. Now I know there's a certain state in our society a physician when people go oh, you're a doctor, there's that and it's easy to get attached to that and it's part of the compensation for all the work that was done in preparing for that title. But I think the practice is important. I think it was EM Forrester who said how do I know what I think until I see what I do? And this approach to living that I call the peaceful warrior's approach to living, one of the principles of this approach that may differ from a lot of new age type approaches is it's based on action, it's grounded in everyday life, it's about having our head in the clouds but our feet on the ground and it's based on the recognition that our lives have been shaped primarily by what we have done, not just what we have thought or felt. You know, somebody came up to me after a talk and said Dan, I feel so inspired. I said don't worry, it'll pass, because inspiration comes and goes right. We know that Motivation waxes and wanes, but if we aren't motivated, how many of us have done things that we weren't motivated? To do A surgery when we're tired, or taking out the trash when we don't feel like it? But we do it anyway because it needs to be done, so we can rely on our will when motivation flags. And there's no magic about will, it's just doing what needs to be done.
Speaker 2:You know there was a Japanese psychiatrist named Shoma Morita who had three guidelines for living wisely and well. He said accept your thoughts and feelings, positive or negative. Accept them as natural to you in that moment. That means by accepting them as one would in meditation, just noticing they're there, acknowledging them, but that's it. You don't have to fix them, run from them, obey them. Just, thoughts and feelings pass through us like the weather. They're the weather patterns of the body. Thoughts appear in our field of awareness, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, and the same thing with emotion. They just pass through us. They change all the time. So we have less control over the thoughts that the random discursive mind, less control over that by our will than we do, what we actually our behavior, how we move our arms and legs.
Speaker 2:If I would ask you to touch the tip of your nose, you could do that. I can do that, I intend and it happened. But if I'm upset and I go, oh, stopping upset, I can't necessarily stop on a dime. I spoke at San Quentin Prison when I lived in California. They asked me in the inside prison project they were doing yoga and meditation and they asked me to come speak to these self-selected people and one of the inmates said he was a big guy. He said I have a problem with rage and I said no, you don't. And he said yes, I do, and I said no, you don't. I said the problem you have. I said rage isn't the problem, it's an emotional storm passing through you that just the weather comes and goes. The problem you have is what you do when you're enraged. And a light bulb went on for him. He realized, well, maybe he could get a handle on doing something different. He couldn't get a handle on stopping getting angry. He realized, well, maybe he could get a handle on doing something different. He couldn't get a handle on stopping getting angry, he just was reactive. And so he started to understand he could have all kinds of feelings but he didn't have to act on them. So anyway.
Speaker 2:So the focus on what I teach is not about fixing our emotion, that's just one. It's a rabbit hole going down a rabbit hole of complication, trying to feel differently. Anger management courses do not teach us to control anger. They teach us to control our behavior. Many times when people say I'm gaining more emotional control, no, they're not. They're gaining control over breathing, relaxing and the behavior they take in response to those emotions that pass through them naturally. So that's what I mean by accepting our feelings and thoughts as natural to us in the moment.
Speaker 2:My aim here, the focus on that, a positive, constructive aim. And the third is do what needs to be done in line with your goal, not in line with some new age philosophy or something you read in the holy book, but just what? What is your aim, your goal and what do you want to get accomplished and then move in that direction step by step. So I thought that was a valuable bit of advice in terms of for doctors or for anyone. So I'm really speaking to the humanity of the people who share. Reignite your humanity and passion for medicine.
Speaker 1:Because we forget about the humanity part. Circling back to the Way of the Peaceful Warrior and the other books I've read that you have written. I appreciate how you outline humanity, how you outline your journey and how it has shaped the way you think, the way you exist, and you're right. These are all lessons that I have picked up over my 42 years on earth. Having said that, it was presented in a way that stuck and it is very palatable because of the way it was delivered. So I thank you for your work and it's an honor to talk to you because of how your work has, I'm not going to say inspired, but influenced and helped me to remind myself more regularly to be present.
Speaker 1:And do I always get it right? No, I don't, but that's the reason why it's called a practice. That's the reason why it's called every, at least the way I see it, is that every day I get a new chance to practice what I believe and hopefully, each day it gets better. Some days are going to be better than others, some days are going to be not so great and some days are going to be fantastic and not get out of the park, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:You know, when I turned 60, I decided I wanted to do something special. So I was going to sneak up the Golden Gate Bridge to the top at night. But this was right after 9-11. You know. So they were taking that quite seriously and my wife said over my dead body. So I had to cancel that idea. But I said, well, instead, why don't I learn to ride a unicycle? Now I don't know if anybody's tried riding a unicycle, but it's a humbling activity, even a good bicyclist. You get on it and it goes whoop out from under you. And you get on again and whoop out from under you. It's really humbling.
Speaker 2:So a friend of mine loaned me his unicycle and he told me he suggested I practice in the tennis courts not far from our house because it was a good surface and I could get a death grip on the chain link fence while I was trying to stay up top this cycle and I practiced for about 45 minutes every day. I came back and there's a woman's running group, a jogging group, that used to go by about that time every morning and they'd look over and see me struggling. And finally one of them said, yelled, you should really quit that. And I said, I do quit. I quit every day, but then I keep coming back. So the point is, at the end of the first week I could careen forward maybe six pedals before I went down, and the second week 12 pedals. By the end of the third week I could do figure eights around the tennis court on the unicycle.
Speaker 2:And the reason I'm mentioning this about this process of learning is that I learned two valuable lessons that I'd learned years before in gymnastics but I'd forgotten. And those two lessons were first everything is difficult until it becomes easy. The second thing I learned, maybe even more important, is while I was learning a new skill, there were days during that three weeks where I was worse. Suddenly, everything fell apart. My mind was confused, my body was confused. I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe that's familiar to people in residency or internship.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, I also noticed that the next day I usually had a breakthrough and the learning was actually taking place on those so-called bad days, like learning to drive a gear-shipped car, going from the front brain to the more instinctive brain, killian or mammalian brain, whatever they call it these days. But the point is that's why my body felt confused and that's why I got worse. That's why it's two steps forward, one step back. So it can be true in a relationship, you can hit a crisis point in a relationship, but if you stay with it, then the next you might have breakthrough to new levels of intimacy and communication.
Speaker 2:It can happen in learning surgical skill or practicing them, or in any area. It's just everything is difficult until it becomes easy, and the so-called bad days are when the learning is actually happening. So stay, keep going, keep going. You know, marita, the same fellow. I mentioned, the psychiatrist. He had a great saying. He said when running up a hill, it's okay to give up, to quit as many times as you want, as long as your feet keep moving.
Speaker 1:That's a really profound statement and that totally hits home. That really hits home, you know.
Speaker 2:It's a good metaphor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, Dan. Thank you so much for your time. What makes somebody worthy?
Speaker 2:Well, one of my books, kind of a magnum opus. It's called Everyday Enlightenment and it has 12 courses in the School of Life and the first of those 12 courses is Discover your Work. Self-worth is different from self-esteem. There's so many books that have been written on the importance of self-esteem. Well, I know some people with very high self-esteem. We call them sociopaths. So maybe self-esteem isn't all that important. Yeah, it's feeling good about ourselves, feeling confident. Some people feel confident when they're on the sports field, others confident at a party. But it could be reverse then they feel no esteem. So people can feel confident and that's better than feeling underconfident. But we can't control how we feel at any given moment. We can control how we behave. This is something very important.
Speaker 2:Another central point about what I teach is that I don't recommend to people to feel happy or to feel confident or courageous or kind or loving. I only recommend they behave that way Now, when you first hear that you go kind or loving. I only recommend they behave that way Now when you first hear that you go. Wait a minute, hold on, dan, can you say that again? I don't know. Are you saying feel one way and behave the other? Well, I bring up. I say how about? You see a child, a little toddler, walking out into a heavily trafficked street? You're terrified to run out in the traffic to save them. But you find yourself doing it. You pick up the child, tell the car stop, run back and save the child. So you were behaving courageously while feeling afraid. That's the same way we can approach behaving with confidence when we're feeling shy, behaving in a loving way or kindly when we're feeling irritated.
Speaker 2:People assume they have to behave in line with their feeling. But if our feelings drive our lives and drive our behavior, it's a chaotic life. So it's fine to feel whatever we're feeling. As Marita said, accept your thoughts and feelings as natural to you. But meanwhile, what do you want to get accomplished here? So doctors don't have to shut off their feeling. They can feel whatever they feel, acknowledge their humanity. People relate so much to that. When someone is congruent, authentic, if they're feeling sad, you can show sorrow why not? But in the meantime, what do you need to get done in that moment? Is it notifying relatives? Is it talking to people? Is it taking care of business? You do that as well.
Speaker 2:I once taught a knife fighting training, personal growth and self-knowledge through knife fighting based on the Filipino knife fighting arts. Kali Eskrima Arnis and I taught for 14 years this training and something was really coming up for one of the participants. They were just crying and crying and she came up to me and said I can't stop sobbing. I said, oh well, it's fine to cry, just like it's fine to laugh, just keep practicing. So she went back and was crying and doing her practices and a few minutes later I looked back, she was laughing, the weather had passed and meanwhile she continued to practice, didn't say, oh, I have to fall apart and I can't function.
Speaker 2:So doctors can be real. They can acknowledge their feelings, be real human beings. They can acknowledge their feelings, be real human beings. They don't have to become a robot or cut off. Now, ptsd may be a thing among physicians, you know, who deal with life and death, but meanwhile, while they're doing that, they can breathe, they can relax, they can acknowledge and accept their feeling.
Speaker 2:And that brings us back to the feeling of worth. Self-worth, different from self-esteem, is the fundamental question how good of a person am I? How much do I deserve of life's blessing? Ramakrishna, an Indian saint, once said the heavens can open up and rain down energy and spirit and happiness. But if you're only holding up a thimble full, that's all you're going to get Right.
Speaker 2:So some of us, we don't feel our worth, we don't acknowledge We've all made mistakes, we've all had slips of integrity, we've all screwed up. You know, raise your hand, yeah. But that doesn't negate our worth as a human being. It's not a matter of entitlement. It's a matter of recognizing our innate human value. I'm a human on the planet doing the best I can. I've accomplished something. And to base our worth, our sense of worth, now I can't tell people how to feel worthy because, again, that's a feeling, it changes over time, right. But can't tell people how to feel worthy because, again, that's a feeling, it changes over time. But I can tell people and remind them to treat themselves as worthy, treat ourselves with the same compassion and kindness that we might treat someone else, right, we care about. We can extend that same courtesy and that same love to ourselves. So, yeah, that's been a lot. I think we've covered quite a bit. That might be good reminders of what we already know, but we tend to forget.
Speaker 1:I love this and this has been a beautiful conversation, so thank you so much. And if the listeners wanted to reach out, what is the best way to do?
Speaker 2:so Probably just through my website, peacefulwarriorcom, and there are some free services there and a lot of information, audio tapes, some online seminars on four-minute workout that can start your day right and a four-minute meditation that can start your day right and a four-minute meditation to help you appreciate the blessings of life. It's a meditation on death, basically going through the process. There's a longer story behind it why I created that, but it's also four minutes and, like nothing I've found it helps us to appreciate the life we're given. So there's all those things you know. The audio tapes, books and so on are at the website peacefulwarriorcom. You know they can follow me on Facebook. I share favorite quotations a couple of times a week on Instagram or Facebook. That's another way to stay in touch.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for your time and imparting your wisdom and to the listener. If you have found this helpful, like, subscribe, share with a friend, because we can all use camaraderie. If you've enjoyed this episode, leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast listening platform. Like, share with a friend, because we can all use camaraderie.