Unofficial Partner Podcast

UP246 The 3: The Who Looks Good in Arsenal Streetwear Episode

• Richard Gillis

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Three stories, three opinions, ten minutes (50minutes)

What's in a name? FIFA's Club World Cup stadia naming snafu
What is streetwear? The deeper meaning of Arsenal's style collab
How old is too old? Sportfive and Tendulkar launch International Masters League

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Leaders in Sport connects the most influential people and the most powerful ideas in global sport to catalyse discussion, and drive the industry forward. Through a series of global summits in North America, Europe, Asia and the Middle East, invitation-only memberships and long form content, Leaders in Sport provides professional executives, both on and off the field, with access to a community of peers to share best practice and trends that are shaping the future of sport. Their flagship event, Leaders Week London, returns from 14 to 17 October, with The Summit taking place at Twickenham Stadium hosting the most senior executives from over 40 countries, including over 100 brands. We'll be there, and you should join us. Visit leadersinsport.com/UP for more information and use UP15 for a 15% discount on your Summit passes.

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David Cushnan, Leaders:

I'm not a professional home podcaster. I go to the office where we have a studio, but I don't go on Fridays. Anyway, this sounds like it's working, which is good.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

It's a, it's a lovely, and you know, I'm thrilled by the audio quality after the snafu of two weeks ago. That's a, that's a, that's work. He's bought, taken that work home. Is he,

James Emmett, Leaders:

it was like, um,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

had to sign it out.

James Emmett, Leaders:

we're like, we're like one of those, uh, one of those referees that's bodged ascending off and has to sit down the following week.

Richard Gillis, UP:

So, well, this is exciting. We're back on the road. and by the way, during this episode, I'm going to insert the leader's, ad and it's basically the leader's ad is me reading out the script. I might do it now. If I do it right now, I'm just about to do it now. Not now. Now.

This episode of Unofficial Partner is sponsored by our friends at leaders in sport. Leaders in sport connects the most influential people in the most powerful ideas in global sport to catalyze discussion and drive the industry forward. Through a series of global summits in north America, Europe, Asia, and the middle east invitation, only memberships and long form content leaders in sport provides professional executives, both on and off the field with access to a community of peers to share best practice. And trends that are shaping the future of sport. Their flagship event leaders week London returns from the 14th to the 17th of October. With the summit taking place at Twickenham hosting. The most senior executives from over 40 countries, including over 100 brands. We'll be there. Of course. And you should join us. Visit leaders in sport.com Ford stroke. Up for more information and use up 15 for a 15% discount. On your summit passes

Richard Gillis, UP:

Okay. So I'll just cut that. And then that's, so that's

James Emmett, Leaders:

Very well read, Richard.

Richard Gillis, UP:

It was just, that was great. wasn't, it?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

we all paused. We all paused.

Richard Gillis, UP:

There's a bit of Gilgud and a bit of Mark Rylance. Just the way the projection, the people at the back were getting every word.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Richard, are you coming to Leaders Week? London.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I am, of course I am.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

terrific.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I am. And we're doing various things. I think we're not on the, on the stage, but we are sort of lurking and we're going to be sort of hovering.

James Emmett, Leaders:

notice you've been allocated a box, Richard. I don't know what you're, don't know what you intend to do in that box. It's

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, I think the box is, I can tell you what the box is. The box is a conversation with Allianz about why the what and the where and the who of. Why this Twickenham deal? Are we allowed to call it Twickenham these days? Or is it now

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Uh, you are, you are.

James Emmett, Leaders:

the Allianz Stadium.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I mean, we have to say that it is in Twickenham. It's quite a tricky one. This is part of the conversation that we're gonna have and I don't want to sort of preempt this but there is a question of So for you guys, are you now saying that Leeders is at The Allianz Stadium and not mentioning Twickenham in any

James Emmett, Leaders:

Well, it's the Allianz Stadium in the location of Twickenham, right?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Alliant Stadium, Twickenham is, I think, how it has begun to appear in, uh, marketing materials.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Right.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Um, I think on I think on the advice of our hosts.

James Emmett, Leaders:

It's worth saying, Richard, I think that'll be a fantastic episode and the whole, whole building is going to be absolutely teeming with brands this year. It's not just Allianz. Uh, there's going to be hundreds of the

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, my,

Richard Gillis, UP:

is like a sort of extended, you've had your ad, you've had

David Cushnan, Leaders:

well, we've no idea because we didn't hear it.

James Emmett, Leaders:

we had you reading a script, Richard. We didn't get the real authentic sort of, uh, the truth about the events.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Richard, I've got a question for you. Have you downloaded the official and excellent Leaders Week London, uh, app?

Richard Gillis, UP:

I haven't. What's the benefit of doing

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, it connects you to all the people that James mentioned who are going to be in the room.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Do I want to be connected to

David Cushnan, Leaders:

I think you do. It keeps you, uh, bang up to speed with, uh, any late changes on the agenda, which, you know, could, can happen, can happen. Uh, so we'll notify you of those. And, uh, there's lots of, lots of other terrific

Richard Gillis, UP:

Is that the only benefit?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Lots of, lots

Richard Gillis, UP:

Late notice of people pulling out. That's the,

James Emmett, Leaders:

can you,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

People joining in.

James Emmett, Leaders:

can you watch sessions through it, David?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Yes, you can. If you are registered, if you're registered to attend and have access to the app, you can watch sessions.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Richard, if you get, if you get locked in the box

Richard Gillis, UP:

yes, which is absolutely possible.

James Emmett, Leaders:

then fear not because you can just log into the app and watch all the sessions that

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, presumably if the, if the conversation with the Alliance goes wrong, they could lock me in the box because I presumably they have the keys, they control

David Cushnan, Leaders:

presumably they've got one of those, um, master keys that does, does all the locks.

Richard Gillis, UP:

They have the Allianz Masterkey.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

that's quite nice. Nice little activation point that. Captive audience, a captive audience at Twickenham.

Richard Gillis, UP:

It's a bit like when Hilton started putting hotel rooms everywhere and put them at Chelsea, didn't they? Then, uh, people said, why are you doing

David Cushnan, Leaders:

I will say

James Emmett, Leaders:

did one. They did one at Ben Fiker as well.

Richard Gillis, UP:

They did.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

listening to your, um, episode from Wentworth, Richard, and, um, I had no, and there was the men, there was mention of Hilton, wasn't there, and how they had put a, as part of this, you know, putting hotel rooms in sports venues, they did, uh, they, I had no recollection that they did one, was it behind the 18th Green or something, or behind one of the Greens at Wentworth, and it started off as a box and then became a hotel room.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Yeah.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

that a good, is

Richard Gillis, UP:

It's one of those things. Okay. So

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Sort of, you know, sleeping out, essentially camping in, in, in the middle of

Richard Gillis, UP:

yeah, there's a question I have, which I think it's a, it's a nice idea. And someone who loves, uh, you know, uh, a whiteboard brainstorm session, there's nothing, nothing better

David Cushnan, Leaders:

where you're making a career out of it, Richard.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Exactly. So you go full sort of Jackson Pollock on the whiteboard and then you land at this idea. And I think it's a nice idea because obviously it's hotels and hotel rooms at sporting venues and it's extension of hospitality. There is a line at which It starts to feel a bit peculiar. So you're at a golf course or, and Chelsea was particularly odd in that, you know, they had, instead of the hospital, they had a hotel. Now, you know, football fans, they're going to take the piss. So it's sort of that people sitting in there were sort of targets and at golf, again, it felt Peculiar, because I just thought it was a really nice idea. And then when it sort of hit real life,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Hmm.

Richard Gillis, UP:

don't, I actually, I don't know if they still do it.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, suddenly, I mean, suddenly it's 3am and you're alone asleep in the middle of Wentworth, um, waiting for the gates to reopen, presumably a few hours later. Do you, it's almost, it's almost like the, was it Samsung who did the, um, the so the, so the slider that's right. The sofa that went up and down, which,

Richard Gillis, UP:

Still, we still talk about that. Ben Blanco, when he was at Samsung, that was, that was one of my favorite topics of conversation. And it was, seemed to be designed to take people's mind off rugby. That was the, that was the sort of, it was keep the minds, the, the dizzy, ditzy minds of millennials off the rugby and just give them something to slide up and

David Cushnan, Leaders:

get them moving. Yeah.

Richard Gillis, UP:

a moving and then embed. It was all Samson energetic, you know, technology. So there's

James Emmett, Leaders:

Presumably it's a visual aid for the, uh, to facilitate the classic crowd noise of, Ooh.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Yeah, I don't. I mean, to be honest, I don't know how fast it went. I always thought it was it started slowly. And then I thought, well, why not just turn it up when it gets really dull when it's a sort of, you know, rugby can be a very attritional, tedious game to watch, can't it? You got you don't see the ball for 20 minutes. So just I quite like the idea of just whipping up and down the sidelines. Yeah.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

a montage that you can post on LinkedIn.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Absolutely. Not very good for drinking hot coffee or, you know,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Nacho or eating nachos.

Richard Gillis, UP:

eating nachos. with a, with a chili sauce. So

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Right. That's the cold opening.

Richard Gillis, UP:

that's the cold opening. Um, I think there is a seamless transition here having talked about Allianz and Twickenham. I think I kick off this week with the announcement of the Club World FIFA Club World Cup in New York. event that people sort of. Either rave about if you would work for FIFA and then everyone else is sort of suggesting might be a tournament too far and even the players are using it as a, question mark. These are games that are being confected now. What's going to happen to the calendar? Rodry is injured and now we're attributing, you know, a heavy workload onto that. And that's the. The, you know, the, the player union argument and I can see I absolutely am sympathetic to that, but let's just talk about this event. So I'm just going to read out what actually it is. So this is on skysports. com, a brand new FIFA Club World Cup format launched with several Premier League teams involved in the new look competition Before its revamp for the 2025 tournament, the Club World Cup took place every year in December and was contested by the winners of the Continental Club competitions around the world. So it's due to take place in the summer of 2025. June the 15th is kicking off. All fine and we can have a, we can have a sort of conversation about the event itself. Now the bit that I just think is a nice link from what we just talked about is the stadia announcements. So I won't go through all of them, but we've got. Over 12 stadiums

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Go through, go through all of them. No,

Richard Gillis, UP:

right Mercedes

David Cushnan, Leaders:

don't go through all of them.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Okay, right. I'll go for a couple just to make the point and it's a you know This is something that as soon as this was announced it was announced Sponsorship experts got in touch. My whatsapp was ablaze with sponsorship people pointing something out

James Emmett, Leaders:

Currywatch was on fire.

Richard Gillis, UP:

carry watch

David Cushnan, Leaders:

I think you called them sponsorship, I think you called them sponsorship nerds in your newsletter, Richard.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I did. Well, they like that. They like, they like, they sort of, I think that raises their profile as it makes it sound

David Cushnan, Leaders:

let's not pretend, by the way, let's not pretend that the three of us don't fall into that category.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm a, we're observers of the sponsorship nerddom, I think. We're critical friends of the, uh, of the sponsorship industry. So, so where's it taking place? The Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta, Bank of America Stadium, Charlotte. We've got the Hard Rock Stadium in Miami. We have Camping World Stadium in Orlando, which is one of my favorites, home of where the, uh, the 94, World Cup. And Audi Field in Washington. And there's, there's a load of others and they're basically skewed towards the East Coast. There's only a couple I think is, well, let's have a, I think LA and

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Seattle.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Seattle. Thank you. Lumenfield in Seattle. Those are the only ones on the West Coast. So the obvious point being, these are their real names. These are stadias that have naming rights deals in place. Now, normally, and this is certainly the case for the World Cup in America. And it's caused much distress on the part of the owners of the NFL stadiums. The names aren't allowed to be there. So FIFA demands, as we know, a clean environment because they flogged the sponsorships to their events and they don't want clashes. So we have a friend of the podcast, Ricardo Fort, just wrote a note for me, which I reproduced in the yesterday's newsletter, I think there's a couple of very interesting bits in here. So, unlike the World Cup where the countries are bagging FIFA to host, the Club World Cup is an event FIFA is asking the USA to do. The stadia owners know they have the upper hand in this negotiation and probably only agree to host if the cost is minimal, i. e. they don't have to remove all the signage. The bidding boot Book of the World Cup requires that the host delivers clean venues for the Club World Cup. There is no bid book for this event so they can rewrite the rules. In their minds, they have no sponsors for the event. This is not correct and there is a dispute between FIFA and the partners who claim they do have it. So they are not infringing on any brand rights. That's FIFA's policy. World view. It will be much harder to do in 2026 for the World Cup where Coke can sue them for allowing the huge Pepsi logo in Santa Clara, for example. Same for Kia Hyundai, which is a FIFA partner with the Mercedes Benz arena in Atlanta. So the question there is FIFA, FIFA's partners think this is, they bought this already and shouldn't have to sort of make way for their competitors. Whereas FIFA's commercial team says, no, this isn't, this is fresh inventories is a new thing and we are bringing to market and the the precedent is the confederations cup which again is a is an event a tournament which was created and sits outside of FIFA's normal commercial relationship. So I asked Riccardo the question well what is this dynamic and he said well it depends on where the contracts were signed. Older contracts do have rights to FIFA events so yes on the other hand FIFA can eliminate any event and partners are not entitled to compensation, i. e. uses the confederations cup as an example. For Club World Cup, FIFA claims this new event is so much bigger and better than anything in the past, partners should pay them, and the fee is over 100 million. This discussion has been going on for years, and the fact no partner has talked about Club World Cup is a sign it hasn't been resolved yet. So we have FIFA in competition or in competition. around with its own most generous partners, commercial partners. And I think there's a very interesting thing. If you switch back to Allianz and Twickenham, I don't think that Allianz will be allowed to call it the Allianz Stadium at, for example, the Women's Allianz. World Cup, Rugby World Cup next year. I think that will be part of the normal business as usual relationship between the rights holder and the hosting venue. And obviously Allianz signed the deal in full knowledge of that. So it's not going to be a surprise to them, but it will probably be irritating nonetheless. And it's something that I will talk to them about when I'm locked in the room at leaders. So that's my bit.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Yeah, well this is um Clearly some progress has been made here, I think, with FIFA A, because they're able to bring out this announcement to bring on DJ Khaled and, um, you know, a smorgasbord of, are we going to say A list music?

Richard Gillis, UP:

Who else? Well, who were the other celebs?

James Emmett, Leaders:

I don't know, there was a, there was a load

Richard Gillis, UP:

It was DJ Khaled. Who is DJ Khaled by the way?

James Emmett, Leaders:

DJ Khaled is a rock nation, as far as I can tell, he's a rock nation entertainment artist who does quite a lot of work and I would say most of his livelihood comes from promoting, um, Sports events or talent that are part of the Rock Nation stable, but perhaps that's a cynical view. I

Richard Gillis, UP:

Is that how he sells

James Emmett, Leaders:

he's a musician. He's a

Richard Gillis, UP:

a rock nation?

James Emmett, Leaders:

He's a musician, Richard. He's a musician. Um, but clearly some progress has been made, um, within FIFA because I don't know if you remember a little while ago. you know, when we had the reports, I think in the New York Times that a, a TV deal was very close for this tournament, a TV deal that would make quite a lot of issues. Go away. Of course, as soon as FIFA's got kind of money on the table that it can put in front of participating clubs. I think a lot of the issues of overplaying, kind of go away for the clubs, but around about that time, the, this tournament was being referred to universally and outta FIFA as the, the copper les. and, and we were all instructed that that is what we should call it, not the club World Cup. There's a crucial difference and, and I think part of that reasoning was. It's a sort of contractual, get out for FIFA almost, like this is not the Club World Cup that is in some of our partners contracts. This is a completely different tournament and it needs to be to avoid, trouble. But that seems to have gone away. We are allowed to call it the Club World Cup now. So clearly some progress has been made, there. Dave?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

I think it was December 2023 when FIFA finally confirmed that this, this tournament was going to expand to 32 teams, and of course it has existed as a much smaller More easily packaged competition, but it's big expansion and that's not a lot of time. The first tournament is going to be in summer 2025. If you think about World Cups and how, you know, how they're allocated and of course, there's no construction work that's required on this tournament and it will be seen as a bit of a test event in some respect for the 2026 World Cup, Men's World Cup. but I, I do think that. This is a very short period of time in FIFA terms to get a effectively a brand new or reimagined, much expanded tournament off the ground. So I think simply they've just, You know, they're really trying to do everything to much tighter deadlines than they used to. And that is everything from figuring out what is in sponsor contracts, what, how to, how to target a new sponsor, new sponsors, new partners, the broadcaster point. The other thing I would say about this tournament is, I think, There is a, and we'll, we'll see, you know, certainly the, the perception amongst the European, the big European clubs is that this is a, this is a headache that they don't need. And this is either rest time for players or eating into what they would normally do in terms of their big, you know, effectively their big pre season or post season tours, which are big, obviously, as we know, big commercial monsters. But I, it is worth saying that. For the, for lots of the clubs who will be participating, who aren't European clubs, they're, I think they're quite up for this and they love the idea of playing in the United States, big media market, huge stadiums against. Some of the big European giants. So it's worth looking at it through, through that light. And there's a very, there's a very good possibility that this tournament sells out is considered a huge success. And at the same time makes comparatively little impact in Europe because of, you know, we just been through the end of the season and the champions league final and all of that, and actually time zones won't work, won't work particularly well, probably for some of the bigger games. And. FIFA can still probably come away with, yes, this has worked and this has ticked a box and done what we wanted it to do. But,

Richard Gillis, UP:

I think that's a really very, very good point. I think that's the strongest card that Infantino plays, the global, he can dismiss the chatter as, as European centric sort of very narrow lens on this topic. And then you've got other, these great Club brands from, you know, Flamengo and Fluminese and River Plate, Boca Juniors, Monterrey, Seattle, Sounders. And you've got a whole world there that isn't playing in the Champions League, for example. So that's the dynamic and he is playing a very clever and, you know, I think there's a lot of truth to the fact that he is saying, well, let's broaden this. And I think that's a really strong message. card. There's a, there's a question there.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Richard, he does need, he does need Real Madrid and Manchester City and Chelsea and some of those big European clubs in there to,

Richard Gillis, UP:

well they are in there. It's just whether, you know, in what form they turn up. So Man City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Inter Milan, Porto, Benfica, Borussia Dortmund, U of A, Red Bull Salzburg, and Atletico, Atletico, Atletico, Athletico Madrid, they are in there now in what shape and size they're in there, what sort of teams they send, etc, etc. Those are all the questions that will be there. The other bit too, and I am always accused of having a sort of this week in the, our, um, bundle live podcast. I was, I set up a premise, which was actually very UK centric in terms of the dominance of Premier League in the conversation. the other bit to it though, is this Euro, the European. TV rights market is very important in the scheme of things. And now I'm not quite sure what the scheme is in terms of how they're selling the media rights compared to the sponsorship conversation that we talked about earlier. But Tarek Panja, who, um, on Twitter made a point a few days ago, which was quoting, um, Gazeta de la Sport saying that actually the day before the terms to submit bids for television rights in half the world, the Americas, MENA Middle East and North Africa expired and no one showed up. The draw is scheduled for December and the risk of arriving like a naked king for Gianni Infantino is high. And in fact, the president of FIFA has moved in the first person by organizing a crisis unit and convening the televisions of the world. So if there's some truth in that, that's a red flag for FIFA and, and the tournament. Yes, it's a nascent. thing, and they will fund it via other means. They've got a lot of money, they can afford to do it, but obviously they want to engage the markets. And when the TV companies, again, I, it'd be interesting. I, what I don't know is the reality behind that statement. So again, I'm just quoting that from a, from a source. So,

James Emmett, Leaders:

It's, um, it's worth saying it's a big risk for Gianni Infantino. project and, um, yeah, it's risky and, and Tarek and, um, Rob Harris and Martin Ziegler were making the point on, on their Sport Unlocked podcast, um, not too long ago, um, that this is interesting and risky politically as well, because obviously it's a foray. It's a big move into club Football from FIFA, uh, further into club football. FIFA's main domain is obviously, um, international football. Their voting members, the people who keep Gianni Infantino in power, are the heads of national football associations who are tied explicitly to international teams, not in most cases. club teams and leagues. And so, um, this idea of generating another truckload of cash and really putting most of it back into kind of billionaire owners pockets, people who own these private enterprises that are clubs, rather than the national associations that support Infantina, that's a risky move. And he's treading a fine line and he needs to make sure that it works for everyone.

Richard Gillis, UP:

and it's, it's sort of roots or one of the iterations was the soft bank, question. So again, we aren't going to that cause we're, we're, we're in a, on a 10 minute podcast, but there's a. That this has been brewing for a long time and you're exactly right. There's a clubby country element to this.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

And it's, it's, this is completely speculative on my part and based on, on no knowledge whatsoever, but the, I don't know if you saw the story that, um, Milan has lost the UEFA Champions League final in 2027 because they haven't got around to deciding what they're going to do with it. Their stadium. So the Sam C has been sort of stripped of the stripped of it, and UFA has reopened, you know, supposedly reopened a, you know, a bidding process. And I wonder whether that just opens the door to the potential of U AFA doing something a bit wacky in 2027 with the Champions League final and a year after the World Cup. Maybe New York or another American city might be the place for it. What, you know, a neutral game, big razzmatazz, all of that.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I love this speculation. This is Cushman's wacky speculative idea. I'm going

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Clip that. Clip

Richard Gillis, UP:

going to, take that. That's going to

David Cushnan, Leaders:

And then when Berlin gets the final, we can

James Emmett, Leaders:

It's going to Istanbul again!

Richard Gillis, UP:

going to Baku again,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Yes.

Richard Gillis, UP:

but, um, which brings us to Arsenal. That's a good link, wasn't it? You've got to say Baku, Arsenal were in the Champions League, were they in the some European minor, European Cup

James Emmett, Leaders:

you referring to the 2019 Europa League final in Baku, Richard?

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, I

David Cushnan, Leaders:

for the, uh, it's one for the avid fans, that, isn't it?

Richard Gillis, UP:

Yeah,

James Emmett, Leaders:

Yeah, no, yeah, no, you're quite right. It's a great link, Richard, yes. so this is my story and Arsenal, have They've clearly done a deal some time ago, but they've rolled out a new, um, streetwear collection with streetwear brand Aries. it's one of these capsule collections of, um, it's clothes, Richard, we're talking about clothes here. Uh, capsule collection, 26 pieces in this, and they've, you know, clearly done a, uh, a photo shoot and all the, um, Arsenal players are wearing this garb. On the surface, I think not necessarily that interesting unless you're a fan of Arsenal Clothes or this Ares brand. It's a collaboration, uh, and it seems like, we can't move for, fashion collaborations in and around sport at the moment.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, in many ways, this is a very similar, this is a collab between two

James Emmett, Leaders:

Well interesting to see how you feel this is being positioned Richard, because a lot of these fashion collaborations, there's a sort of reaching up or down to kind of lend credibility to your

Richard Gillis, UP:

you up, aren't I? I'm, I'm the one just sort of

James Emmett, Leaders:

So in this, so I was going to

Richard Gillis, UP:

brand wise.

James Emmett, Leaders:

I was going to point to, um,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

like you're clinging on.

James Emmett, Leaders:

that I thought was very successful not too long ago, um, was the North Face, um, collaboration with Gucci. Um, and I wonder in that, you know, in that instance, Richard, who's North Face and who's Gucci?

Richard Gillis, UP:

we're doing two different jobs, obviously one hugely popular.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Um, there's a, there's, so I absolutely love this story because there's so much in it in terms of there's the clothes themselves and we, there was clips, wasn't there, of Declan Rice walking up and down the sidelines in, you know, you know, sort of, Oh no, is that the wrong one?

James Emmett, Leaders:

Well, so there's been a lot of activity in this. Sort of field, um, and particularly out of

Richard Gillis, UP:

They've done two, two streetwear deals.

James Emmett, Leaders:

No, this is what the interesting point is. So yes, I think you're referring to the, um, the kind of fashion show that they had at Emirate Stadium, um, uh, where Declan Rice was walking,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

During, during London Fashion Week.

James Emmett, Leaders:

during London Fashion Week, um, and that was part of their collaboration with Labrum, a different, um,

Richard Gillis, UP:

streetwear stroke.

James Emmett, Leaders:

yeah. Um, but the interesting thing I think is, uh, All of these collaborative efforts, this move into a kind of converged lifestyle space, sport meets street wear meets high fashion meets whatever. It's happening all around us and clearly it is reaching new audiences

Richard Gillis, UP:

It's not happening around me.

James Emmett, Leaders:

no it's not happening, over there. Um,

Richard Gillis, UP:

Millets. I'm up for a Millets collab.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Yeah,

Richard Gillis, UP:

Does that still exist, Millets?

James Emmett, Leaders:

I don't know. There's a great, there's a great joke about a

Richard Gillis, UP:

I closed it down like Abercrombie and Fitch.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

gone online only.

James Emmett, Leaders:

So all of these collaborations, most of these collaborations are driven by the sports team in question's sort of main licensing partner. So in Arsenal's case, it's Adidas. Adidas have become incredibly adept. as Nike have, as Puma have, etc. at, um, uh, sort of collaborations and collaborative pop moments, um, to get a bit of traction in the media and sell more stuff. The Lab Room collaboration was done through Adidas. So Adidas, Arsenal's kit supplier, the away kit this year

Richard Gillis, UP:

So this is the Declan Rice black and white stripes.

James Emmett, Leaders:

the one, the one where the shirt everyone says looks like a Lynx Africa. Um, so that's in, that's Adidas collaboration with Elaborum for Arsenal. And part of that, uh, was this fashion show during London Fashion Week. Um, that happened at Arsenal. So that's all well and good. It's great.

Richard Gillis, UP:

this what you're talking about is a different collab and we're a collab. Is that a new name for a sort of sponsorship? Is that what we're saying?

James Emmett, Leaders:

Well, it's part, um, I think it's, it's, it's really a partnership, Richard, it's, uh, I don't, it's more

Richard Gillis, UP:

We've had we've had I mean like you I I love being on a stage in front of people waiting for a free bar And someone says I think we should call sponsorship partnership and then hilarity ensues It's just you know, I we find new names for sponsorship I'm someone, I'm very old school. I think sponsorship is the word that we should be

James Emmett, Leaders:

Well, Richard, let me tell you, this isn't sponsorship, nor is it anything like sponsorship. It's much more like licensing.

Richard Gillis, UP:

it's a bit like sponsorship, but yes. So it's a licensing.

James Emmett, Leaders:

licensing and sponsorship? Um, it's a

Richard Gillis, UP:

a PhD to be written

James Emmett, Leaders:

They're, they're producing new stuff together. Um, no one's putting their label on other people's stuff. They're producing new stuff together. It's licensing brands to each other. So, this is interesting because it is Arsenal, not Adidas for Arsenal, doing this deal. Um, so it

Richard Gillis, UP:

And that is, they've taken, they're creating an in house, or they've got an in house agency, or they're trying to do, they've taken the creative bit. Like kit launches, for example, they're taking in house, aren't they? Which I think used to be done by HomeGround, which is a sort of very creative, cool agency in London. They do Adidas's work. And I think what's happened is that Arsenal have taken that work in house and are now doing it. Now there's questions about what, why, and how, and whether. That's a good idea, but we'll see it. It's interesting to see that. And it's, I think all of this, I was going to say it talks to the ambition of the club as sort of culture brand and that there's a, there's that move here and you can see, see that happening. You can see that happening around the sort of kit launch genre more generally, can't you, in terms of the, you know, they're trying, they're bringing actors in, in, they're bringing various people, all the, you know, the big clubs are doing it. There are some questions about. Who is the audience for this? And beyond obviously the sort of tiny group that is the Arsenal fan base. I'm joking. As a Spurs fan, I can, I can make jokes like this, but who is this going to be aimed at? Is it. A local global question. Uh, or is it just, does it not matter? This is just a brand positioning play by Arsenal that they're moving to becoming not just a football club, but they are a culture streetwear brand. And they are in the way that we talk about Angel City being something other than just a football club. We're moving and spreading and the base of what a football club is, is shifting as we

David Cushnan, Leaders:

And do they see it as a way to attract new fans to the club? Or is this about providing something more for existing fans?

James Emmett, Leaders:

Um, I would suggest that it is a bit of the latter of what Richard was saying. So it's a brand play, um, that is aimed squarely at, sort of building the Arsenal brand purely, not Arsenal, the Arsenal brand, uh, as a kind of cultural. lifestyle, icon, in fields and demographics and audiences that aren't necessarily football fans, Arsenal fans, they're just people who, they're fashion people who wear clothes. In the same way that Paris Saint Germain has been doing this for some time, this is in fact a leaf, um, that's been taken out of the Brooklyn Nets book. So, the Brooklyn Nets for a little while, for a couple of years, have been doing streetwear, collaborations. So clothing has, is referential to sports clothing, but isn't sports clothing

Richard Gillis, UP:

What is the definition of street wear by the way? Is it where, you know, I, I, I walk out in the streets and I wear cloth. Is that street wear or is there, am I, uh, this is something that I can sense a generational. You two are hipster millennials. I am towards the end of that

David Cushnan, Leaders:

you're in your,

Richard Gillis, UP:

and cascading into Generation X, but yes,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

you're in your office studio now in, I think, indoors. Um, are you, are you wearing lounge wear right now? Um.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I'm a, a very strict location, room to room. I strip myself naked when I go out and then I, and by the front door, I've got a whole streetwear collection, which I've, I've done in collaboration with lots of different streetwear

James Emmett, Leaders:

I would say that streetwear probably, um, you know, it's a word for a, for a sort of silhouette for clothes, you know, a slightly baggier style. There are streetwear staples, you know, in this, in this, In this deal between Arsenal and Ares, we've got jersey tracksuits, graphic tees, nylon and denim sets, and a lovely bomber jacket

Richard Gillis, UP:

Oh, I'd sweat up in a nylon tee.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

I'd also suggest, Richard, don't, don't worry about it.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Don't worry, don't, don't

Richard Gillis, UP:

I'm worried about it. I want to, I'm going to, I want to start wearing streetwear. I want to wear nylon streetwear. Turn up sweating like a armadillo

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Without this turning into a, God forbid, a fashion trends podcast, is in, you know, 15, 20 years time, are we seeing, you know, do these sorts of collaborations, collabs, are they the, are they the next generation of replica kits? Is that the mood? Is that the ultimate sort of direction of travel here do you

Richard Gillis, UP:

Well, that is what's happening, isn't it? That's that. I mean, you can see in the, the Arsenal shirt that you mentioned earlier, you seen like the Spurs, I've got to mention Spurs obviously, but they, they, the third kit genre feels like,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

third kit is, I think, you know, now generally

Richard Gillis, UP:

got to be able to wear it to play football, haven't they? I mean, that's, you know, you can't wear it. I'm just looking at a picture of, of, um, Saka in a sort of a one piece, which is very fetching on him. I would struggle to sort of carry it off. He looks very good in it, but that, and that could, I could assume there's a link there. You could, there's an 1886 reference, which I assume is when the football club was, was founded. There's all sorts of cues there that I can see. They could take and make a third kit out of it. But are you saying more than a third kit?

James Emmett, Leaders:

distinction here, it's nothing to do with the kit. It's the kit. is Adidas, right? And maybe to David's point about, are these the new replica kits? Do you know what? Replica kits are the new replica kits and Adidas, in Arsenal's case, do the replica kits. And they churn them out and there are

Richard Gillis, UP:

They won't, they won't like the word churn there in that, but yes, I

James Emmett, Leaders:

and they put a lot of love into them, um, and they've got training kits that change on a regular basis as well. They do licensing deals. Adidas did a licensing deal with TFL a few years ago as well. And that manifested itself in a warm up top for Arsenal, the Piccadilly line, uh, kind of colors. And that happens all the time. And those, maybe David, will become what you're talking about, the collectible replica kits of the future. I think stuff like this, Adidas and Ares, is much more of a sort of lifestyle brand play. It's a land grab back, you know, to take control of IP back for Arsenal. Adidas controls everything that they do together, but when Arsenal licensing their brand somewhere else without Adidas, they have much more control of that. They have a completely different financial arrangement with Ares, I'm sure. Um, and it's helpful to bring the kind of level of their general brand up. So the stuff that they sell in their online store, which isn't a collaboration with anyone, which is just an Arsenal logo or an A or 1886 written on it somewhere, has a little bit more Cachet has a little bit more value about it and they can sell their own stuff to more people. That's what I think it's about,

Richard Gillis, UP:

I think that was beautifully put.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

no, very good. Very good. I think James is the most fashionable one of the trio.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Yeah, I think that's a very, very low bar. But yes, it's like being the sort of, the nicer of the Kray twins. Again, that's a, that's a sort of millennial reference. Google it, kids. Right. Let us move on then. David, the third and final story to get us in

David Cushnan, Leaders:

yes. Yes. Let's see if we can sneak this one in. Um, so there's obviously a huge amount going on in the business of cricket at the moment. And there were two stories, one of which I actually think is more interesting than the other. happened this week. One, uh, Hampshire became the first county cricket club to come under overseas ownership as the GMR group, uh, the co owners of the Delhi Capitals, uh, confirmed that they had bought a majority share. That story has been running for several months, but confirmed this week. And then there was this interesting story, I think arguably more interesting to discuss here, around this new cricket tournament, this new franchise based tournament that Sport5, the Sport5 agency, are launching. It's going to be called the International Masters League, and it's a, it's essentially tournament for cricket. So six teams playing in India. Um, sport five have collaborated with, um, there's that word again, collaborated with PMG sports, um, an Indian sports marketing agency, and they're establishing a new

Richard Gillis, UP:

Is that

David Cushnan, Leaders:

company.

Richard Gillis, UP:

agency?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Gavaskar is, um, one of the two front men of this, along with Sachin Tendulkar. Uh, Gavaskar will be the commissioner. Um, Tendulkar, I think is, it sort of reads as if he's going to be playing, um, as one of the, uh, the former cricketers who, uh, will be coming back. Uh, they're going to sell franchises to this. They're going to play it in three, uh, Indian cities. And it got me thinking, and obviously there's, there's, uh, you know, it's probably as sure a bet as there is in sport to make, you know, if you want to make money, do cricket in India, find a way to do cricket in India. And, uh, but I think this is quite interesting. A, in the, uh, Sport five, you know, I think is doing something quite creative to get involved. And it's talking about this being the first of a lot of activity that it's going to be doing in cricket. Um, and secondly, just this, again, something that the industry doesn't really talk about the, the, the seniors tour, the, the bringing back former players, and you see it across a number of sports, um, I actually looked up the, um, because, um, For many years, the, in tennis, the, the Royal Albert Hall hosted the ATP champions tour, which was all the former players getting together. And it's a bit of an exhibition. It's a bit, you know, it's, it's, it's sport meets entertainment. They did it for many years and I looked it up because I hadn't heard anything about it for years. And it turned out it was sort of quietly, quietly disbanded during the pandemic. But then you look at things like golf and 35, 000 people turned up to the British seniors open. Uh, the week after the Open Championship

Richard Gillis, UP:

Champions Tour in

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Champions Tour, 28 tournaments in the Champions Tour this year in the US, and most of them seem to have prize money of, you know, two, two million dollars. It's not insubstantial, um, lots of other, you know, obviously boxing slightly different, but you get a number of boxers who, you know, decide that they quite like the idea and the paycheck, uh, for returning of returning to the ring. There was a, uh, I remember going to Silverstone in, it must've been 2005, 2006 for a very, very short lived thing called GP Masters, which is where they brought back, um, Nigel and Alan Jones and some of the Formula One drivers to, well, they were, they were, you know, especially kitted out, uh, single seater vehicles, uh, Richard. And, and it was,

Richard Gillis, UP:

I wasn't suggesting they're all in the same

David Cushnan, Leaders:

And they had, and they had a few, they had, they had a few races, they had a few races and um, it, you know, it was short lived but it was, it was playing into this sort of nostalgia and getting the old champions back and nobody took it really seriously apart from Nigel Mansell who won by about a lap and, you know, you know, claimed he'd, claimed he'd broken the lap record. So all of these things do sort of, you know, in various sports there are various, types of this thing. Cricket is seemingly the latest to get one and I think, well, it's going on my watch list as a, a new startup to watch because I think there's, there's money there and a bit of potential and I think it's gonna, at the very least, fill stadiums.

Richard Gillis, UP:

There is nothing more like the Cushman Watchlist and the big question is whether it will make into the Cushman A Z at Christmas. The review, that's the, the, you know, what people in the industry look for, that's, they wait all year for that.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

if only it was called

Richard Gillis, UP:

created a piece of valuable IP that sits aside almost,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

only it was called the X Cricket League, that would be very, very helpful, but alas. Uh,

Richard Gillis, UP:

have just recorded yesterday a podcast of Lali Modi, so I'm not gonna go too far into this because we get into the hundred and franchisees, the, the global franchise market for Cricket. Enough to say

James Emmett, Leaders:

let you in his house this time, did he Rich?

Richard Gillis, UP:

he didn't, the last time we did, we didn't get through reception. Um, but. I wasn't trying to break in, he did invite us, but then he just didn't want to do the interview. This time it was done remotely, but it was very nice actually. He's come on to the Unofficial Partner WhatsApp group with a, with a flourish. How long he'll stay there, who knows. But my point being, he made a couple of very interesting points about, to your point there, Indian, a lot of people are looking at a global franchise marketplace. Do we buy a franchise in the hundred, for example, the Caribbean Premier League, the various league, the big bash in Australia. You can see that a part of the excitement is, oh, well, we will sell this to the Indian market. And he has a big question mark about that in terms of actually uh, Indian cricket audience loves Indian cricket and Indian cricketers. And. if you look across the ICC, and a lot of people get excited about the American World Cup. Other than Indian games, was it a success? Question mark. That was his point. I'm paraphrasing Modi. And likewise, the 100 in an English summer. The English summer is a very valuable window because it's, It's when no one else is playing cricket. So that's the bet that the hundred are making. Now, the big question is whether or not the Indian marketplace is going to be interested. They won't get the Indian players playing or the best Indian players playing because they can't. So that's, there's, there's loads of stuff in here, all of which means that this initiative, which is Sort of interesting. I agree. It's part of that wave of senior, sport for probably it's probably people of my age and, and maybe older that there's more of us, you know, and, and you can see a sort of marketing audience analysis where you're saying, okay, you're playing on nostalgia. I've got it. I'm not a big, yeah. fan of Mar's events, purely because it just feels like not proper. this one is interesting. They've, they, all of the moving parts are in place. I see. Um, sport Five's an interesting organization. I've never quite know what looks below the surface of Sport five. I saw Sea of so Brian's name in the press release, which, and he's someone who is very, very, experienced and successful in the apac. region and has been for years. And I hadn't clocked that he was now under the sport five, uh, banner, but he's, he's sort of involved, which means that there's a, you know, he brings an enormous credibility in that sort of marketplace, obviously you've got Tendulkar, obviously you've got Gavaskar. These are heroes. It might work, but do we need any more franchises that I, I liked it as an event until you said franchise, I think, well, how many, how many franchises are we actually going to,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

and it's worth saying the, an organization that's definitely not mentioned in this press release is the BCCI, and you would imagine that they would be watching this with interest because, uh, as you say, if there's, if there's a real appetite to see some of the old players, and of course, you're not seeing world class performance, but you are seeing world class stars of yesteryear. Tendulkar Phil stadiums, right?

Richard Gillis, UP:

he still does. And I get, I'm getting a lot of this on TikTok. So, you know, people, and you get Brett Lee, for example, or Donnie or Chris Gale. These are players that are sort of not Gavaskar age, you know? So these are people who are, have been superstars in the sort of nineties, noughties, and, creeping into the last 10 years, the last decade. So, I can see the moving parts of this and I can see that actually they've done a lot of the stuff, right? Again, I just don't know. And again, you're right. The BCCI will be looking at this. The IPL will be looking at this and saying, well, actually if they start to encroach on our space, if they start to then, you know, if we start to vie against them in terms of sponsorship deals, for example, locally, and that's when it will get testy. That's always the, it's the commercial markets that will be, um, will be interested, but might be a different audience. Who knows? James.

James Emmett, Leaders:

I wonder if this is a kind of reflection of a trend that they're seeing in Hollywood at the moment and it was actually highlighted on the um, the Rest is Entertainment podcast not too long ago. The The sort of bankable stars that can open movies has sort of under the radar moved. Um, so that the top 10 or whatever they are, they're all kind of over 50. These, they're all old guys who've been along around a long time. Uh, and maybe that says something about the kind of fragmentation of the media landscape and the fact that, you know, when you're a young star coming through, you make an impact, but you only make an impact on one particular platform. You don't get kind of global reach, uh, in the way that you used to. And maybe that's. You know, maybe we're beginning to see that in sport as well. You know, Tendulkar, Dhoni, Brett Lee, et cetera, are a, a, a surer hit, and they're going to reach more people who know who they are than whoever the latest 24 year old who's very good is.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, who are the most, who are The two most recognizable footballers in the world, Ronaldo and Messi, you know, Tiger Woods is still the one as we've talked about on this podcast, who moves the needle in terms of TV audiences in the US. Yeah, you're right. I wonder as well with this, this sort of nostalgic view of things. And to your point, Richard, about who's the target market for something like this, what you actually have is, A, a group who, you know, are getting older, who have worked in sports, truly professional era, who kind of know how to do this stuff, who have more nostalgia to draw on, I guess, um, who will be sort of, you know, the brainchilds behind this. So I wonder if we might start to see a little bit more of this in, in other sports that, you know, as I said, there's lots up and running already. Um, but yeah, I think this is going to be a, it's going to be one to, one to keep eyes on.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Do you say brain child? So do you say brain children?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Good question. Do you say sponsorship or collaboration?

James Emmett, Leaders:

Licensing.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I think, you know, these are all very, very, uh, important. Um,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

More questions than answers on this one.

Richard Gillis, UP:

exactly, which used to be the sort of, that used to be the tagline in Unofficial Partner, you know, version one, we used to say more questions than answers. And it sort of lets you off the hook a little bit because you don't need to

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, and then you got a bit more confident and thought,

Richard Gillis, UP:

More confident.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

got, we've got, we've got this covered.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Now we're overthinking the sports business for money. Okay. I think this is the end of this 10 minutes. Excellent. 49 minutes. Perfect. So we've got, let's just to flag up and set an

James Emmett, Leaders:

Oh, hang on. We need to, we forgot to introduce ourselves again. I'm James Emmett from

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Hello, I'm David Cushman from Leaders.

Richard Gillis, UP:

and I'm

James Emmett, Leaders:

with you. Richard Gillis.

Richard Gillis, UP:

from Unofficial Partner. Obviously you know that because I'll have said that at the beginning. No, I know I won't actually, I'll go straight into this one. So yes, it's worth, worth flagging. The other bit to it is there was a question mark hanging because obviously leaders week is in, how many more of these before leaders week?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, it sort of depends how long it takes you to edit and put this out. But, um, let's say,

Richard Gillis, UP:

That was microphone related, that delay, by the way, I spent, I spent a long weekend trying to, I was listening to James Emmett's crackly Stephen Hawking voice.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

if you're listening to this on Friday, uh, on Friday evening. Uh, Leaders Week is the week after next.

Richard Gillis, UP:

So this is October the 4th.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Uh, Leaders Week begins on October the 14th. Uh, with the Summit at Alliance Stadium Twickenham on Wednesday the 16th, Thursday the 17th.

Richard Gillis, UP:

So we've got two more Fridays after this. We've got this one. We'll put this one out and then we've got two more of these and then we have to, we've got an exciting decision to make whether or not the audience and the

David Cushnan, Leaders:

no, I think you've, Richard, I think you've, uh, you've, your maths has failed you already. We've got this one, and then we've got one more next week,

Richard Gillis, UP:

Oh, okay.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

and then it's Leaders Week. And I'm telling you right now, I'm not recording one during Leaders Week.

Richard Gillis, UP:

We're not going to, no, but there is a, there is a,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Well, there's a, there's a

Richard Gillis, UP:

the groundswell, there? is a recommissioning. Do they go again?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Have I got a second series?

Richard Gillis, UP:

Have you got a second series partridge strike conversation? And there is also a, yeah, I, I think that would be interesting. I don't know. We'll have a conversation. Leaders Week is the perfect time because you guys don't do anything and we've got lots of time on our hands and we can have a little swan about, can't we?

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Yeah, we can ask some people. Yeah, yeah, put it to the vote. Actually, let's not put it to the vote.

Richard Gillis, UP:

no, no votes. Don't like votes. No votes, no engagement, no polling. That's, uh, that's our new mantra, by the way. We're, we're, I'm now anti engagement.

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Okay, I think, sorry to interrupt Richard, I think we've just hit 10 minutes.

Richard Gillis, UP:

Perfect. Bye everyone.

James Emmett, Leaders:

Bye.

Richard Gillis, UP:

I want a bye. I want a goodbye,

David Cushnan, Leaders:

Goodbye everybody!