Episode 101: Elevating Coaching Practices: The "No-Sell Approach" and Mindset Shifts with Guest, Terri Levine

Unlock the secrets of transformative coaching with business and marketing maven, Terri Levine! Discover the essence of her "No-Sell Approach" and why mastering coaching skills is more crucial than ever. In this episode, Terri shares her insights on transforming clients' lives, businesses, health, and relationships, and discusses the power of being results-oriented in your coaching practice.

Ready to shift from traditional sales scripts to genuine relationships? We explore how embracing your role as a CEO can elevate your coaching business. Terri gives practical advice on delegating non-essential tasks, leveraging apprenticeships, and bartering services to focus on activities that truly make a difference. Hear how abandoning a rigid sales script led to better client engagement and results in her own practice.

Beware of self-proclaimed gurus and costly coaching programs that overpromise and underdeliver. Terri shares a cautionary tale of an $80,000 bait-and-switch experience, stressing the importance of due diligence. Learn why mindset shifts are more valuable than mere strategies, and how expert consultations can help transform your beliefs for personal and professional growth. Subscribe now to continue your journey of mastery and access exclusive content that will propel your coaching career forward!

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Terri Levine here.

To sign up for your Free Consult, click here.

To obtain Terri's Free Life Design Playbook for Coaches, click here.

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/

Transcript

Garry Schleifer: 0:07

Welcome to the choice Magazine podcast, Beyond the Page. Always sounds like the Twilight Zone, but what the heck? choice, the magazine of professional coaching, is your go-to source for expert insights and in-depth features from the world of professional coaching. I'm Garry Schleifer, your host, and I'm thrilled to have you join us today. In each episode, we go, go figure, beyond the page of articles published in choice Magazine and dive deeper into some of the most recent and relevant topics impacting our world of professional coaching. We explore the content and interview the talented minds, let's see if I get this right, over there, there we go, such as Terri, behind the articles and then covering the stories that make an impact. choice is more than a magazine. For over 22, it is actually 22 years, we've built a community of like-minded people who create, use and share coaching tools, tips and techniques to add value to their business. And, of course, what do we all want to do? Make a difference with our clients and the world.

Garry Schleifer: 1:09

In today's episode, I'm speaking with top business and marketing strategist, Terri Levine, who's the author of an article in our latest issue "A Livelihood from Coaching Feasible or Fanciful. Her article is entitled Truth or Fantasy right there with the theme. I love it Coaching with a no-sell approach. Let me tell you a little bit about Terri. She's one of the world's top business and marketing strategists and consults with business owners to help them move from traditional sales, marketing and operational methods into effective, authentic and transparent people-centered communication models. With more than 40 years of business, sales and marketing experience, she started when she was two, she has helped more than 7,000 business owners reach revenue goals they never thought possible. She is one of the world's foremost experts on marketing and coaching businesses and a best-selling author of more than, wait for it, 40 books. Wow. One every year for 40 years, since you were two. Terri, thank you so much for joining me today.

Terri Levine: 2:20

Well, thank you, I'm glad to be here.

Garry Schleifer: 2:22

It's good to see you again. We've crossed paths many times and I'm so thrilled to be talking with you today about your fabulous article.

Terri Levine: 2:31

Thank you. I'm excited to share and anything I can ever do to help coaches, that's what I'm all about.

Garry Schleifer: 2:36

Aren't we? I am too.

Terri Levine: 2:38

I know that. That's why we're here.

Garry Schleifer: 2:42

That's why we are here. You know, reading your bio it really is kind of a no brainer why you wrote this article. But maybe I should rephrase it and say why now?

Terri Levine: 2:52

I have so many people that reach out to me in my Facebook community primarily that are failing in their coaching business and they're like can you really make a business out of this? I don't think so. I don't see a lot of people and I really want to help people understand that there is a true career path here, a true business and now, I think more than ever, people need our help. They want our help, they're looking for it. There's so much going on in the world. There's so much confusion. This, to me, is the time where I believe coaching is going to skyrocket even more than it has in the decades that we've been in it.

Garry Schleifer: 3:35

Yeah, so I was just going to say we've been in this for decades and I can't believe we're doing this issue about a topic that's been a part of the conversation forever. Here we are yet again, yet again, yet again, and we're here to say, yes, you can. Energy flows where focus goes. So thank you for being here and for your expertise and and sharing it with all of us. Your article was fabulous, by the way. I was rereading it again this morning and did you love the treatment with the flamingo?

Terri Levine: 4:16

I was gonna say I got such a kick when you guys sent it back to me. I'm like, oh, they really fancied this up, great, I love it.

Garry Schleifer: 4:26

You know, one of the phrases that I highlighted this morning is, it goes to what we're just talking about. With the right coaching skills, you can transform your client's business, life, health and relationships. Just be clear in what results you're both committed to achieving. Give us some background to how you arrived at that for us.

Terri Levine: 4:47

I used to own two coach training schools and in those schools and in the clients that I've served over the years, I actually noticed that sometimes people are either in a niche or following a trend or a pattern where they really don't have expertise. So I'll give you an example. I have a client who came to me initially a few years ago and she wanted to help people scale their businesses. I'm like cool, How's your business? Well, she was doing $2,000 a month.

Garry Schleifer: 5:16

Okay.

Terri Levine: 5:20

I said no, you want to transform people's lives, businesses, health, relations. What is it that you know you can help someone get as a result? And so I noticed that I have to shift people to that a lot.

Terri Levine: 5:35

It's so funny. I saw imy Facebook community, this woman, and she said I'm just starting coaching and I want to be a coach to attorneys and she had this little thing and I reached out and said that's awesome.

Terri Levine: 5:45

So how many attorneys do you know that you can reach out to? And she said I only know one. I said you want to be involved in the niche, you have to have a way of communicating, and so I believe that a lot of people who don't understand you either have to be part of that niche and have access to the niche, and/ or you have to know that you can 100% help the right clients who are open and curious get the transformation they're seeking. And if you're not able to do that, go do something else.

Terri Levine: 6:21

Love and respect.

Garry Schleifer: 6:23

Well, and it's funny, you should say that because a friend of mine started off coaching exactly that way with attorneys. not an attorney, no background, nothing but with consistent communication and value add, He's built his entire coaching business around coaching, uh, uh, attorneys, the legal people, and i gets flown all over the place to coach and lead, and there's some leading and training as ut. ut yeah, it can be done. So I don't want anybody listening to this thinking that they can't. To your point, though. Be clear, get in there, immerse yourself, add value. You say that a lot in your article too, and in your own about in our conversation about adding value, so really appreciate that too. We're going to get into some of the other ones, but, like I said, we can go on tangents here. What are some of the ways that really work for you to add value that you would suggest to our listeners and readers?

Terri Levine: 7:23

I love that question. First, I want to piggyback on something we just said. It's easier to get started when you have an affinity in the niche. So when I first started I had been CEO of a national healthcare company. I started in that niche. I helped people who were burnout like I was transition. my first book Work Yourself Happy. ansition my first book work yourself happy. Transition into a business that makes you happy. So I had an affinity with the niche. Within a year I went,

Terri Levine: 7:53

That's not really what I want to do and I had enough leverage that I could make that transition. So just mention that.

Terri Levine: 8:01

So I have this little bracelet. I know it's hard to see on virtual. It says "serve and create and on the back it has a little check mark. And this is what I really focus on with client family members. Again, surrender the outcome. Like we always say to our clients, we've got to do it ourselves right. I have zero outcome other than what can I do today to serve and create? How can I show up? You and I were talking right before we started. How many podcasts I go on. Why? I love serving and creating. So if it's the right audience and I can add value, I'm there. I'm on social media only to serve and create. I actually use Newsfeed Eradicator and I use Adblocker. I see nothing on social media. I just go into my community, I serve and create. I go into a few communities that I'm a part of, seeing if I could serve and create. I create content every day, whether it's video, whether it's YouTube, whatever it is to serve and create. Nothing is leading towards a funnel or get this book for a dollar.

Terri Levine: 9:08

No, I just serve and create, and then what happens is, I call it, reverse marketing. People raise their hands and they come to me, and it's always been that way. When I first started 30 clients in 30 days just by creating value.

Garry Schleifer: 9:25

Say

Terri Levine: 9:31

So when I started my first business right out of college as a speech language pathologist, I nearly failed. I had a small business loan. They did not teach me when I was getting a Master's Degree how to do business, sales, or marketing.

Terri Levine: 9:50

I can diagnose and treat speech and language disorders. Well, that didn't help me get patients and I needed referrals. So constantly going to doctors and like hunting and fishing and begging for referrals, nothing was happening. And finally I thought, what if I just served and created in the community? So I went to a few schools, montessori's, a couple of preschools, and said, hey, could I come in and just do free assessments of the kids' languages and speech and just to see if I could help. And all of a sudden, from that, the parents would see that their kid had a need. They'd go to their pediatrician who would say, yeah, they have a need, and the parent would say, can you send them to Terri? And all of a sudden I got these referrals.

Terri Levine: 10:38

So I call that reverse marketing and I use that in all of my business. So basically it's this let me just show up anywhere and everywhere, create value, value, value, value. Let me drop in podcasts and webinars and articles and social media posts and emails that are value, value, value based. Let me speak everywhere I can. People raise their hands and I'm going to share a very embarrassing story.

Garry Schleifer: 10:59

Oh, do tell.

Terri Levine: 11:01

When I first started, this so embarrassing. I first started in the coaching industry. Right, I'm using reverse marketing. So I go to my local Whole Foods and I thought, well, holistic people might want coaching. They said, yeah, that would be great. Come speak on Tuesday night at seven o'clock or whatever. So I get there and there's no signage or anything about me speaking and I'm like I'm the speaker at seven o'clock. They go great. Where am I going to speak? They go in aisle four. I go, okay, thinking there's something set up in aisle four. There's nothing in aisle four. It's the vegetable aisle. I still remember it. Five people came standing in front of me. I'm speaking. People are walking and going, excuse me, I'm speaking. However, this is my favorite part of the story. A woman there at that event. She hired me. She has now been with me for close to 32 years.

Terri Levine: 12:00

Reverse marketing can lead so many places. She's referred so many people, including corporate clients. I use reverse marketing and that's all I use in my business.

Garry Schleifer: 12:10

Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. And what's the embarrassing part?

Terri Levine: 12:16

Oh, just that I was standing in the middle of a grocery store. I mean it was to this day. I just chuckle. I always remember this guy reaching over my head.

Garry Schleifer: 12:25

That's funny, that's funny. I'd be embarrassed for the store having done that to you, but hey, it worked. Now, okay, I'm still not clear on what makes it what. Why is the word reverse? Because to me you're still attracting people to you.

Terri Levine: 12:48

The reverse part is they're raising their hand. I'm not reaching out a direct message. I'm not going. Hey, Garry, I really think I can help you. I saw you comment on my post. What happens is they literally come to me. Right before we got on, I haven't been on email. I checked email. We have five people that came from a webinar that I did yesterday. I didn't pitch anything at the end of the webinar.

Terri Levine: 13:11

I said if you want to connect with me. I'll give you my email address and I'm the one that will answer the email. Five people reached out. Two of them wanted to do joint ventures and three of them said can I talk to you about your programs? I might be interested. They're coming to me. That's the reverse piece.

Garry Schleifer: 13:29

Okay, well, no, thank you for that, because it's in alignment. What I know doesn't work for me is the opposite, is when I'm chasing, chasing, chasing and that goes for anything. Like I'm also the primary, well, the only person that sells ads for choice magazine and I find I have to remind myself every once in a while, when I notice I'm chasing somebody to close it. I'm like let it go. They're most likely not going to be a great client if you're dragging them to the table, and I think then that's really something for us to notice as coaches, that we're not that kind of people in our business. So in our execution of our coaching, why should we be that way in our business, right?

Terri Levine: 14:14

So that's what I say all the time when people go oh, I hate selling. I'm like I've never sold. I just get on with someone. I listen just the way a coach does. I'm just a coach and at the end of the conversation, if I truly believe that I can help them make a transformation, I extend my hand very simply and say hey, Garry, I really think I can help you.

Terri Levine: 14:36

Would you like to hear about it? If they say yes, great, if they say no, just as great. And if they have an objection. I actually don't even overcome objections and sometimes people are like what? No, they know if they want me.

Garry Schleifer: 14:52

Then it brings me back, and I was in a podcast interviewing with a couple other people around this issue and what I found, and I've been telling people forever, is it's not selling and I think you mentioned this in your article as well. It's not traditional selling, it's building a relationship, but it's coaching. You're right from the get-go. Oh, what do you know about coaching? Why are you interested in coaching? What do you think you'll get out of it? What might we work on together? You know how important is this to you. You know, could you see yourself working with me? You know, I mean, you're still engaging in a transactional conversation, but it's not, you know, come buy my car. Like you're saying the opposite of reverse marketing.

Terri Levine: 15:41

Yeah, I had someone years ago that I was working with a client and they came to me and said well, do you want to see my sales script? I said, no, I want you to throw it away. And he went what? And I said I want you to throw it away because we're not selling anything. He's a great coach. Just go ahead and be a great coach and just be there with surrendering the outcome and being open and curious. And it was really interesting. He had a program. Really one or five people in the program, I think it was like 2000 a piece or something. He's like oh, I've been trying to sell it. I'm like throw the script away. And he got eight people in the program and he didn't mind the calls anymore. So selling is not what we want to do, coach is what we want to do.

Garry Schleifer: 16:24

Start right from the very beginning, Right when you meet them. Yeah, make it about them. Well, the big A agenda is theirs, little a agenda is ours and ours has a dollar sign in those first conversations, just saying. I was talking to somebody yesterday and it's ABC always be coaching and closing.

Terri Levine: 16:43

Very simple, very simple, really it is.

Garry Schleifer: 16:47

Yeah, you've touched on a few things that coaches could do differently. What else are they not doing well?

Terri Levine: 16:55

So one of the things that I notice is that they're not really sitting in what I consider the CEO chair. Let me tell you what I mean by that.

Garry Schleifer: 17:03

Please do.

Terri Levine: 17:04

If you're posting on social media all day, commenting on social media all day, scrolling social media all day, just wasting a lot of time watching TikTok videos or whatever it might be, you're not actually sitting in the CEO chair. So what does that mean? I want you to think of a CEO that maybe you admire and respect. So many, many years ago, the one that was in my head was Steve Jobs because I love Apple products. So before I would do anything, I would say would Steve Jobs be answering all these emails himself? Oh no, I probably need someone to triage my emails. Would Steve Jobs be filing papers? Probably not.

Terri Levine: 17:45

So when I talk to coaches about this, especially newer coaches, they're like oh, I can't afford a team. Well, let me tell you, I started by bartering, and lots of people will barter for coaching highly skilled people. So I had a team of accountants, virtual assistants, copywriters, web designers. Almost everything in my first year was bartered. The other thing that I still do in my business is we work with local high schools and local junior colleges and colleges and I go to them and I offer to take people on as an apprentice for a semester where I will teach them, I will help them, I will write them a reference letter, which is really important for them, and in many cases, I have a copywriter that was so good. She worked with me for a semester from a local college. She was amazing.

Terri Levine: 18:41

Came out of college I hired her full time. They love it and the schools love it, and they're getting hands-on real experience. And if you can't afford people right out of the gate, you can get great people. So that's a way to think differently. I don't do anything until I ask myself, am I sitting in the CEO chair or am I being a busy bee? I only stay in my zone of genius. I love coaching. That is is my zone of genius. That's what I do. And then I love sharing any knowledge or information that can help coaches. So that's all I do. That's why I don't have to work that many hours a month and all I do is what I love.

Garry Schleifer: 19:21

Love, love, love it. Well, just to let you know, I'm on a similar path, but I will course correct or refine based on today's conversation for sure. I'm not a social media scroller. I know I'm in the CEO chair and I, too, have a team of people now who do about 90 to 95% of the work behind choice and my coaching. And when I say, oh, you know, I'm going to dig into this, and blah, blah, blah, they go, Garry, that's not your job. Do I have to slap your hand? Do I virtually slap your hand? And I'm like, oh, busted again. I let them tell me what I need to be doing, if I need to be doing anything.

Garry Schleifer: 20:05

So I have the absolute thrill and pleasure and honor of being able to interview such wonderful people as yourself. I just got off a call with somebody who wants to write for not one, two issues of choice. Like it's just so, like you, say, I get to do what I love and I'm coaching more than I've ever coached, right, so I'm absolutely thrilled. So say it one more time for our listeners. What could they do differently?

Terri Levine: 20:35

Sit in the CEO chair and you know what, you're going to love it because you got into this industry to be a coach. Not to do all that other stuff.

Garry Schleifer: 20:44

Yeah, CEOs don't do all that stuff. They do their from their zone of genius. Like you said, I love that, I love that, love that. So you started doing this a long time ago, but what would you do if you were starting out today?

Terri Levine: 20:59

Wow, it's one of my favorite questions because when I tell people I got 30 clients in 30 days and, believe me, there was no social media when I started. There was barely email if you think about it. You know there was, "You've got mail. That was really about it. What did I do? I used this thing called a telephone to do this thing that most people don't do.

Terri Levine: 21:26

I used a telephone and made calls. What the hell is a call? I literally made phone calls, and that is exactly what I would do today, and can I share an actual case study about this?

Garry Schleifer: 21:39

Of course as long as you keep the names confidential.

Terri Levine: 21:42

I'm not going to mention it. So this client who works with me, he had come and he had worked with a couple of other coaches first and he was doing okay. I think it was doing close to a hundred grand. He was doing okay. He really wanted to scale the business and he wanted to have, like later, a team of coaches. He had a big vision. It just wasn't happening. He was spending a lot of money on social media ads, getting less and less and less results.

Terri Levine: 22:09

So I said, we are on Zoom, I said do you have a phone? And he's go, what? I go hold up your phone. You have a phone. He's like yeah, why? And he holds up a phone. I said that is going to be how you get your clients. And he went, really? I said yep, I want you to start calling everyone in your contacts. That's how I started. I simply call people. And I went Garry, oh my gosh, I just wanted to connect, see what you're up to, do you have a few minutes now or can we schedule a time later? And I literally got on the phone. I talked to people every single day and then, if it seemed like someone that I could help, I would say that I'd say you know what? I have a coaching business. Now I don't even know if you know what that is. Nowadays most people do.

Terri Levine: 22:56

And I say I would love to spend about 15 minutes, 20 minutes, with you kind of going into coach mode and letting you actually try it on. Does that sound like something you want to do? People would say yes. I would simply do that. I literally would coach them. I'd say what is the biggest thing you're dealing with right now? What's holding you back? I'll coach them 15 to 20 minutes. At the end, if I thought I could help them transform, again I would extend my hand. I would do that today. If you planted me somewhere and said you have to reach? Great, just give me a phone, I don't need anything else.

Garry Schleifer: 23:41

I love you. I say that to people and I get the same reaction, even to my partner. It's like have you thought of picking up the phone and talking to that person? Huh, what, what, like, and isn't it funny? Now and let's not put this as a block, but it's funny we text people to see if it's okay to call them. I get that all day long.

Terri Levine: 23:55

I get Terri, are you available? Can I call you? I'm like, why did you text me? Why don't you just call me?

Garry Schleifer: 24:01

Yeah, I have voicemail. I can handle my systems right, Exactly.

Terri Levine: 24:06

It's interesting to me.

Garry Schleifer: 24:07

Yeah, that's funny, hilarious. Oh my gosh, Terri, we could go on and on all day. Anything else in the article that you'd like to point out, or anything that you felt you wanted to say and you didn't get room or the time to say it?

Terri Levine: 24:23

Thanks Garry. There's one thing, just be careful, and I kind of mentioned this in the article, be careful of the self-proclaimed gurus out there. I n the last five years I cannot tell you how many people have come to me and spent ridiculous amounts of money I'm talking fifty, a hundred thousand dollars and gotten no results. So really make sure before. We could look amazing on social media. We could look like we're crushing it. I can stand in front of a Lamborghini or a beautiful home and go oh work with me.

Terri Levine: 24:59

Just be careful, do some research, investigate. Also, make sure it's actually that person who is going to work with you. I won't use a name. I paid $80,000 five years ago to work with this very famous name 80,000. I flew to San Diego to meet with him. I sat in an office, they gave me a cup of cappuccino and then walked what I'm going to call a young kid in his twenties and he said okay, well, he's not available, so I'm going to be the person who works with you today. I went no, you're not. And he said oh yeah, I do all of this. I go no, you're not. I said I have the email and I have the contract and that's who I'm working with. I didn't spend eighty thousand dollars to work with you. He comes in and works with me or you give me a refund. I got a refund and I flew home.

Garry Schleifer: 25:51

Good for you.

Terri Levine: 25:53

Be careful.

Garry Schleifer: 25:53

Yeah, you know, and again not mentioning names, but I'm so tired of the people that are like six figure business in, you know, 100 days or 60 days or whatever it is. I think the thing I would also add to that is interview them.

Terri Levine: 26:11

Yes.

Garry Schleifer: 26:11

And interview the people that they've had success with, because they're only going to give you that anyway. But it's like interviewing for a coach because you're spending eighty thousand dollars. You know that kind of thing. You did well, you got out of it well, um, but also, if they're going to help you with your coaching business, maybe they should be a real coach.

Terri Levine: 26:36

During the pandemic and maybe you notice the same, everybody was a coach and I would say, oh, that's great, you're a coach. Where did you get your training? Life. Okay, can you tell me any of the core competencies of coaching?

Garry Schleifer: 26:52

Yeah, because you called them on the phone, so of course.

Terri Levine: 26:58

Of course.

Garry Schleifer: 27:00

I love it. I love it. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, like I say, we could go on and on. You've already given us some great pieces of wisdom, but what else would you like our audience to do as a result of the article and the conversation?

Terri Levine: 27:18

So we do a very different kind of call. It is not a sales pitch in disguise, it's not a coaching call. It is actually a consult to shift your thinking as a coach, because in order to transform your sales, your marketing, your conversations and use reverse marketing, you've got to change how you think. That is the biggest thing that I see holding coaches back. They don't need the strategies and the tactics. They think that's what they need. What they actually need is to think differently. So we offer a free consult with my experts, who are belief shifters, and during a conversation they're going to help you shift a belief that's going to help you grow your coaching and consulting business and we offer that. It is something that we give away and it is a way that we create and serve and show up and create value for coaches.

Garry Schleifer: 28:13

Can I do it?

Terri Levine: 28:14

Yes, Okay, I'm in.

Garry Schleifer: 28:17

No, really seriously. Because in my coaching business, I work for platforms you call them, and so they give me clients. Love it, love it, love it. And I need my private practice to build up more and I believe there's a mindset block in there.

Terri Levine: 28:35

So perfect, oh, you would be ideal. One of my clients. She just did one, not even a week ago. I think it was about four days ago and it's so fascinating. I have seen her hold herself back. She starts something, she stops. She's my sister from a different mother. Well, she had a belief shifting session and she sent me a video after and she said this is the first time, the very first time, that I understand what I was thinking and why I was stopping myself. She has, every single day since then, done an accountability form in Slack. No one asked her to do this, saying I did this because I don't believe this. I did this because I don't believe this. It has been amazing for me to watch four days of her changing her thinking and changing what she's doing. And now reverse marketing is working for her, when before she literally would start it and then she'd stop, and she'd go back. So yeah, sign up, it'll be great, awesome.

Garry Schleifer: 29:43

And where do we go for this?

Terri Levine: 29:48

I dropped a link in there for you to see and it is go heartrepreneur. com/ heartrepreneur- consult. So I know it's long, so it's go heartrepreneur. com/ heartrepreneur- consult.

Garry Schleifer: 30:07

You know as they say it's all folks, so get it there. So thank you for that. And what's the best way to reach you? Through that or you personally?

Terri Levine: 30:15

The best way to reach me is just there's a contact form directly on heartrepreneur. com. Those come to me, not to my team, because I want to see who's out there raising their hand. So if there's any questions or anything at all, doesn't have to be that you want to work with us, doesn't matter. Happy to help coaches anytime. So you can just go over to heartrepreneur. com, fill out the contact form and I promise I will personally respond.

Garry Schleifer: 30:40

It'll be Terr, everybody. Let's keep her busy giving value. Terri, thank you so much. I've really appreciated this and learned tons for myself. I hope our listeners have too.

Terri Levine: 30:53

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Garry Schleifer: 30:55

That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app and please leave comments and likes on the episodes that you've listened to. If you're not a subscriber to choice, you can sign up for a free digital issue of coice Magazine by scanning that QR code or by going to choice-online. com and clicking the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery. Thanks again, Terry.

Terri Levine: 31:28

Thank you.