Trust Your Gut: How Food Affects Mood (with Julianne Kanzaki, RD & Health Coach)

Can the food we eat really impact our mental health?  According to Crossover Health Coach and Registered Dietitian, Julianne Kanzaki, it’s a definite factor. Nutrients from the food you eat can play a critical role in supporting the microbiome in your gut, which is often just called the “second brain.”  Want to see a change in your processed food cravings, decrease blood sugar spikes (which can trigger depression and anxiety), and boost your serotonin? You’re in the right place.

Transcript

Julianne: 0:00

So the more we can have of these good bacteria and give them the food to eat so they can thrive then it's this really positive feedback loop that helps our immunity helps our mood helps our hormones helps decrease certain diseases.

Crossover Health: 0:15

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Danielle: 0:58

What's up everyone this is Danielle Heuseveldt, health coach Program Manager for crossover health and you're in the right place for a healthy discussion. Just a reminder that the following presentation is for informational purposes only and is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. Please do not apply any of this information without first speaking with your doctor. Today we have one of our crossover health coaches, Julianne Kanzaki, who is here to speak with us about how food affects mood. Welcome, Julianne. Thank you for having me, Danielle. Our so excited to have you. But I want to tell our listeners a little bit about you first. So Julianne is a registered dietician and a national board certified health and wellness coach as a self described wellness architect. Her greatest joy comes from partnering with our clients to help them design build and reach their wellness goals. Julianne received her Master's of Public Health at Loma Linda University and her 12 plus years working as a clinical dietitian provides her with an extensive understanding of nutrition across all ages and disease conditions. In 2017, she traded her traditional white lab coat and dove wholeheartedly into the dynamic collaborative fields of health and wellness coaching. In her free time, you can find her creating Kazuaki cards which are featured at letter perfect in Palo Alto, and Kaleidoscope coffee. She enjoys writing and speaking spoken word poetry, making art and exploring nature where she is continually inspired. And I can definitely speak to what a phenomenal artist you are Julianne really just amazing. So we definitely are going to talk about food as it relates to mood in this episode. But I think it's really important that we first preface that many things affect mood, many, many, many things can affect mood, your stress levels, your sleep, certain conditions, there's so much medication so much can affect your mood, right food is is a part of it. And that's the part we're going to talk about today. Yes, and I think with everything that you just mentioned, a food is something that we can always come to every single day for different meals. And this is an opportunity to always have agency over what we're eating, which will affect our mood, some of the other things we can't control. But food hopefully is something that we can really decide to make the right decisions. I know there's a couple places that we could go with this. But I would like to start with the microbiome. And our listeners might not quite know what the microbiome is, can you just give us a brief explanation of when we say microbiome, what what do we mean? A very brief one will be basically the 39 different trillion different bacteria that we have, this includes bacteria, virus fungi, that start from our mouth and go all the way down into our gut, which is our stomach, or large intestines or small intestines. And these are so many different species that are really affected by what we eat. And in charge of immunity hormones, mental health mood. And so that's what I'm really excited to get into because it's this dual pathway, where it's the brain speaking to the gut, and then the gut also communicating back up to the brain through something called the vagus nerve. Our bodies are so incredibly complex and wonderful. I mean, we have an entire, like universe living in our bodies, right? I mean, you said 39 trillion, how many trillion we've got a lot of things living in our body right now.

Julianne: 4:57

And the fact that we can change it by what we're eating thing is and also by our environment as well, if we hang out in nature, the ocean, the redwoods, each of these also has a different microbiome. So the more we can get into different diverse environments, as well as eat diverse foods, that's how we become more resilient in all aspects.

Danielle: 5:19

That's fascinating. And I know that I've heard somewhere, many places that that it's called the second brain, can you talk a little bit more about why our microbiome is considered our second brain,

Julianne: 5:32

it has a really unique relationship between our cravings, and mood. So basically, when our brain is communicating to our gut, our gut also communicates back up to our brain, the different bacteria that live there tell our brain what it needs to eat in order to have those different bacteria survive. So it's this constant dual communication between the brain and the gut. And I think we're actually more we are more microbes than we are human in terms of cells, which is really fascinating. 10 to one,

Danielle: 6:05

that is fascinating. And so our second brain or microbiome, communicates back with the brain, as you said, through the vagus nerve. Right? And that is the nerve that runs basically through the entire length of our body. Yeah, it was a huge outcropping of nerves in the gut, is that right?

Julianne: 6:25

And it's sensing? Yes, it's it's sensing fullness. It's sensing hunger. Also the presence of certain amino acids or sugars, or fatty acids, so it's always in communication, telling the brain what it needs, what it doesn't need, and also really dictating our cravings, which we'll get into in a bit.

Danielle: 6:43

Well, let's actually talk a little bit about that. So So now we know that all of those microbes in our gut can talk back to the brain associated with communication. Can you talk about the composition of that microbiome and how the different ways our gut microbiome can be composed, how that might influence what our brain is getting? So I, you talked about cravings? But can you talk a little bit more about the composition of the microbiome and how that affects what the brain the messaging the brain is getting?

Julianne: 7:21

Sure. So when you think about it, every single food that we eat is going to break down into amino acids, or glucose or fatty acids. And these will all feed a very specific microbe, and certain microbes thrive with certain foods. So imagine, if you had a very whole plant food, higher fiber food, this is going to break down and feed specific microbes that are actually in charge of decreasing inflammation, helping with insulin sensitivity, actually making serotonin. And then on the flip side, if you eat, let's say, a very refined sugar type of food, this will feed a completely separate species of microbes, that will increase inflammation and that are actually linked to depression and anxiety. So there's a lot of studies coming out showing this really dynamic relationship between specific microbes and the disease disease conditions that they can cause. And if I'm

Danielle: 8:19

hearing you correctly, it's sort of a loop because if you're eating a diet that's feeding a certain type of bacteria, then that bacteria is gonna yell back to the brain. Hey, more of that. Exactly.

Julianne: 8:31

One great example was was from the documentary long time ago, Supersize Me where he was eating all of this, this McDonald's and he had a very clean diet before then. And the first week in he was getting these raging headaches just because he was eating so much fast food. And after a while, he would start getting those headaches if he didn't eat that. And it just shows that whatever we're feeding wants to proliferate and grow. And that's what's always communicating up to the brain saying like fetus more of that, whether it's the good high fiber foods or more of the refined processed sugar foods. So you, you'll see that your cravings do change and the body is incredibly resilient within 36 hours, that microbiome can shift.

Danielle: 9:15

Wow, okay, that's fast. That is actually something I did not know that it can shift that quickly. And when we talk about that connection, then with mood as you were seeing it can have influence on the neurotransmitters right like serotonin, or is there a little bit more to that? How else can the gut affect specifically mood?

Julianne: 9:34

Right? So when we think about blood sugar stabilization, because we all have been there where blood sugar is very low, and we may feel very anxious or on edge, a lot of the times the refined sugars cause that roller coaster of blood sugars going up and down. So when we can eat foods that are more complex, or have higher amounts of fiber that break down more slowly we have a more steady release of blood sugar which helps our mood overall feel more stable. On a deeper level, certain microbes that we just talked about actually create serotonin. So a lot of people don't know 95% of the serotonin is actually stored in the gut. And it's made by these certain gut microbes. So if we can begin to feed them so they can proliferate, this helps establish a strong baseline for supporting our mental health. Got it? Okay.

Danielle: 10:25

Yeah, so our bacteria, our gut microbiome talks to the brain tells it what it needs. And that could go one, I could go either way, I could go in a positive loop where you are craving and, and seeking out things that are healthy, or right, more positive gut bacteria versus ones that might be feeding a loop that is increasing cravings for like, refined sugars, and also maybe having a not so positive effect on the mood, also, to your point linked with blood sugar stabilization.

Julianne: 11:02

And one thing that we could talk about is serotonin, which is a neuromodulator. That really helps us feel calm and grounded and content. And there's a way that we can pair foods together to really create more serotonin, especially in the evening. And the precursor to serotonin is L tryptophan, which is an essential amino acid. So this is found in nuts, seeds, Turkey, if you eat meat, peas, broccoli, pumpkin seeds, chocolate, banana. So all of these contain that l tryptophane. And the bottom line is to pair it with a complex carbohydrate. So something like sweet potatoes, brown rice, chickpeas, these are all ways that we can have a meal together that facilitate the tryptophan being passed through the blood brain barrier. Got it? Okay.

Danielle: 11:54

Okay, so tryptophan can be a precursor for serotonin. And then when we're talking about foods to include to feed the back to the head, what are we talking about? What types of foods are we talking about?

Julianne: 12:08

I would say anything that comes from a plant, because plants, all plants have fiber, and fiber is the currency that feeds these good probiotics. And when they've done studies, basically, the main key indicator of a healthy microbiome is the diversity. So they did something called the American gut project. And they found the single greatest predictor for a healthy microbiome is a diversity of plant species. So the gold standard is aiming to get at least 30 different plant species per week. And plant species includes fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, beans, lentils, herbs, spices. So the bottom line is just when you go to the store, look and try to get something that you haven't had in a while because that specific food will speak to very specific microbes. So the more we can have a diverse microbes species, the more resilient we'll be.

Danielle: 13:02

Right. So variety and diversity in plant foods certainly helps here. Yeah. And you mentioned fiber and fiber being part of what feeds the bacteria.

Julianne: 13:13

Yes, so we know. So prebiotics are some of these indigestible fibers and plant foods we know about the probiotics, which are the healthy bacteria. But a lot of people don't know that. There's something called post biotics and this is what the probiotics when they eat the prebiotics, they create something called post biotics, which are short chain fatty acids. And these are the guys that go in and repair the tight junctions and gaps which can cause brain fog, or can cause leaky gut or inflammation. So the short chain fatty acids literally are the currency of the whole body. So the more we can have of these good bacteria and give them the food to eat so they can thrive and make short chain fatty acids, then it's this really positive feedback loop that helps our immunity helps our mood helps our hormones helps decrease certain diseases. Got it.

Danielle: 14:05

So I'm hearing fiber is important to feed the good bacteria having the good bacteria in the first place is helpful and that is probiotics, as you said, That's the good bacteria. And then what they produce together are the post biotics.

Julianne: 14:21

Yes. And I wanted to mention a recent study that came out by Justin Sonnenberg and Chris Gardner from Stanford. And they took two groups of people, they put one on a high fiber diet, which was 40 grams per day, they had a ramp up period of four weeks and then put them on a high fiber diet for six weeks. The second group they had eating a high fermented food diet so that basically on top of the diet that they already ate, ramping them up slowly for four weeks, and then six weeks, four to six servings of these fermented foods, whether it was kombucha, kimchi, kefir, sauerkraut, and what they found was actually this fermented food group, their microbiome and the proliferation of good bacteria increase, so better diversity of microbes. And they also measured inflammatory markers like interleukin six, and those inflammation markers went down. So what we can pull from this study is sure the diversity of a high fiber diet is important. And also incorporating fermented foods as much as possible and being consistent, will also help to support a healthy microbe.

Danielle: 15:29

I just want to clarify in the group that had the diversity in the fermented foods, were they also consuming a high fiber diet, or they were just at their normal diet, and all they did was include the fermented foods.

Julianne: 15:41

Exactly. So it's normal diets for both. And then increasing the fermented foods on top of that, which was really fascinating. And just when I heard about this study is surprising, because I thought all the benefits would be from the high fiber group, just because so much from the microbiome research recently with high fiber, but this is new. So this can hopefully encourage our listeners out there if you're at the store, and you could pick up kimchi or sauerkraut, anything that's low sugar, but has live culture. So anything in the refrigerated section, that's gonna really help

Danielle: 16:14

if you don't have a big diversity of healthy bacteria in your gut to start with, fiber isn't necessarily going to create that diversity. It's going to feed the good bacteria that's there, but not necessarily increase diversity. Does that sound right? Does that make sense?

Julianne: 16:34

That makes sense. I would encourage people if they can't try to have more diversity of plants, because each of these plants will feed a specific microbe

Danielle: 16:43

got it? Right. So it's important, I think, what I'm hearing you say is it's important to have both adequate fiber and a diversity of fiber, it's also important to have a diversity of fermented foods included so that you are adding to the good population, and you're feeding them all adequately with the fiber. Is that a good summation?

Julianne: 17:09

Yes. And we've seen studies where there's a link between depression and low levels of magnesium, a low levels of folate or B vitamins. So the more you could have a variety of food from these leafy green vegetables or nuts, beans and seeds. Bottom line is you're probably going to be meeting those needs for your magnesium is going to be in normal limits. I will mention vitamin D, a lot of people are deficient. So if you have a primary care physician, and you could get those levels tested, it'd be helpful to know that at least you're in the green because that could also be linked to depression, low mood, low energy. So those are some of the micronutrients to think about.

Danielle: 17:50

Excellent. Yeah. And I think it's important again, for us just to point out, especially when we start talking about depression, depression is a multifactorial issue. And so we are not advocating that you try to solve it exclusively through food, it's going to you know, it's going to be a multifactorial treatment that can can that should include therapy may be medication, what we're talking about is using foods to help support these, you know, these other therapies. So I just want to make sure that we're pointing that out. But again, all of these things can potentially help in a treatment for mood or even depression,

Julianne: 18:33

there was a study that came out to that showed 1000 milligrams of EPA, which is our omega three fatty acids, in conjunction with medication, which was 20 milligrams of Paxil actually helped support that. So that group got more of a benefit. So thinking about how we can incorporate more of these healthy anti inflammatory omega three fatty acids to really just help balance out because so much of the Western diet is very heavy and Omega sixes which is our inflammatory fatty acid, so including more of the omega three fatty acids, whether it's from fatty fish, or if you eat plants, it would be alpha linoleic acid sources, like walnuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, to have a whole variety. So we're making these anti inflammatory omega three fatty acids.

Danielle: 19:24

Yeah, and that word, I think is the key here to this discussion is variety, a variety of plant foods variety, and Omega three sources, a variety of fermented foods. Yes, it can be really easy to sort of limit yourself get in a rut of having sort of the same foods over and over again. And so as you said, looking to expand your horizon. So if you're putting together your grocery list, maybe adding one or two new plant items right into your cart

Julianne: 20:00

A lot of people I work with tell me Oh, Julie, and I just eat chicken and broccoli and asparagus, like, those are my main ones. And so in a sense, it's all about gamifying. And making it fun. So potentially, you can tally up how many different plant species are eating per week, and then the next week, try to bump it up in order to get to 30. Plus, checking out the farmers market to and just buying locally and seeing what's out there and talking to the farmers. And that's a great way to also build in diversity in your gut microbiome because it's coming from the local soil.

Danielle: 20:31

Right? Yeah. Oh, great point. That's right. And, and it can feel overwhelming when you're trying to make a change to any part of your life. So feel free to again, start small, you know, where, where can you make a change? What new item might you be able to add. And again, with any of this, if it does feel overwhelming, talk to healthcare provider, you can certainly talk to your doctor, or you can talk to a dietitian or a health coach to help you figure out how you want to go about this, what experiments you want to try.

Julianne: 21:06

Exactly, I love the word experiments too. Because all of this is just about making that small step daily, and just trying something that's a little bit out of your comfort zone. And growing from there, this is all about sustainability, we're playing the long game, that's what I tell a lot of people, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. So we just want to make this fun, and bring in different foods that you haven't tried tried different recipes, because the more diverse we can have in our food, just the more diverse our microbiome will be.

Danielle: 21:33

That's right. And again, even if you are even if you're in a place where maybe your your shopping is, is a little bit you know, limited or you don't maybe have access to as much, there's still probably something new that you can that you can try from wherever it is you're you're procuring your food. So again, don't feel like this has to be a big monumental change it it can and probably should be incremental so that you're able to, to stick with it. Yes. So we've talked a lot about types of foods. And we talked about getting a variety of foods, especially a variety of plant foods, I would like to go back to the blood sugar stability, and maybe talk a little bit about, like timing of food and how that might play a role in in stabilizing blood sugar, which ultimately can still help with keeping mood steady, can you speak to that a little bit

Julianne: 22:36

with a balance of meals, I think it's really important to have a balance of the complex carbohydrates, lean protein if you can, and healthy fat and the protein and the fat will break down more slowly. So that's going to be a more steady release of blood sugar versus just having, let's say, a cookie in the morning or a piece of bread. So if you can pair these fatty acids with the protein and the complex carbohydrate, that balance is really going to help support study blood sugar levels.

Danielle: 23:07

Right, right. So thinking about pairing those high fiber carbohydrates and having mixed meals and snacks, which is essentially what it comes down to that definitely can even out or plateau, the the blood sugar and the insulin response throughout the day. And also, I think something that we often suggest is just consistency in your meals and snacks. So if you find yourself eating a little more radically, or you're going really long periods of time without eating, then you're super hungry and maybe having a larger meal that might also be an area to look at to help improve the stability of blood sugar's

Julianne: 23:46

Yes, and that's a great point. A lot of people I found during the pandemic would just work straight through lunch, or they would have meetings scheduled on lunch. So they would be skipping that meal and then being crashing around 2pm grabbing something really sugary and sweet. And then just having that constant roller coaster, which was leading to more anxiety or feelings of anxiety. So for some of my members, when we really blocked off lunch, and they were able to have a balanced meal, they felt so much better. And were able to work and be focused and more patient throughout the rest of the day. So yes, like having those. Those meal times that are consistent really helps support consistent blood sugar.

Danielle: 24:27

Yeah, right. Okay, so we've talked about consistency, balance of meals, so having multi food group meals and snacks. We talked about getting a variety of foods and and we also talked about making changes to your diet. Incremental. One thing that that we certainly advocate for in coaching is the experiment. So we talked a little bit about this and like tracking how it makes you feel because there really is not a one size fits all here. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you work with your members on what changes they want to make, what you might suggest they look for. Love to hear that.

Julianne: 25:10

Yeah, it's not a cookie cutter approach at all. So my whole mantra is everything's an experiment. And it's not about like winning or losing, it's about winning and learning. So I love it actually, when a member comes in, they're like, oh, my gosh, I haven't hit any of my goals. And I'm like, but thank you for showing up. Because we have so much data to pull from that we can use moving forward to see what is not helpful, what's not working, in order to curate moving forward, how we can best support you in whatever goal or area of your wellness you want to improve. And that's so important

Danielle: 25:45

to say, it's about winning and learning. There's no path, there's not like a fail here. Totally, either what you tried worked, or an adjustment needs to be made. But you can think about that adjustment based on what you're learning. So if you are trying a new high fiber food, and for some reason, it's just not working out, it doesn't mean that you failed, it means that okay, well, maybe we need to take a look at it and adjustment here.

Julianne: 26:18

Right, right. And there's 300,000 edible plant species. So if you don't like asparagus or cauliflower, that is totally fine. We have so many other different ones we can bring in slowly.

Danielle: 26:30

Absolutely. I have tried to like be it's almost my entire life. I don't I never will. I know that there are benefits of beads. I get it. But I cannot make myself eat them. I just don't like them. But guess what? That's fine. Because like you said, there are so many other things that I can choose from other plants that I can choose from to get my get my nutrients. And yeah, and really think about what are you looking for? So as you're trying this, what is the effect you are looking track that, you know, if you're looking at, hey, are my energy levels better is my mood better? Right, make sure that you are being mindful of that and you're tuning in so that you can see if the experiment worked or not.

Julianne: 27:21

And I love that because this really helps people build those connections between the foods that they eat, how they feel their energy levels, their mood, their digestion, and then just paying attention to these different things. So moving forward, you have this curated list of foods that you know, really help support you.

Danielle: 27:40

That's right. That's right, Julianne, thank you so, so much. We're gonna get into our rapid fire questions in a minute. But is there anything else about this topic that you'd like to share with our members?

Julianne: 27:52

I think we wrapped it up pretty well. I would say if you can try to have at least 30 plus different plant species are ramped up to that level. Check out your local farmers market, try new vegetable when you go to the store or a whole grain or fruit or something you haven't had before. And be really patient with yourself. Because all of this is a process.

Danielle: 28:14

It definitely is. And again, it is when and learn not win and lose, not pass and fail. It's all about learning so that you can continue to move forward. Okay, and I think you have maybe a little poem you'd like to share with our listeners as we wrap up. Yes,

Julianne: 28:31

I wrote this last night when most people hear the word dietician, they think of losing weight. But I came here to share how to optimize your plate. It's not about depriving. It's about thriving, because how we see ourselves reflects how we feed ourselves, and vice versa. How we feed ourselves reflects how we see ourselves. It's about progress, not perfection, making choices day by day until you're proud of your reflection. Every single meal is an opportunity to change our food, which means every single meal is an opportunity to change our mood.

Danielle: 29:15

Wow, that was beautiful and so timely for National Nutrition Month, which is the month of March. Thank you so much for sharing that Julianne Blatz get to know you just a little bit better first Rapid Fire question. What's the best piece of advice or saying that you love

Julianne: 29:36

one of my favorite sayings is by Michelangelo that he said on his deathbed at age 83 And it's uncor Amparo, which means still, I am learning and I love that because for him to have that posture as he was dying of like, Yes, still I'm learning about all these different things. I hope to always embody that even in In the nutrition field, so much has changed in the 16 years that I've been a dietitian. And it's like, how can we continue to learn and grow and be up on the research to provide solid evidence based science for our members learning, energy, medicine, mind body connection, that's just my mantra of like, still, I'm learning.

Danielle: 30:23

And that's such a great approach. And such a great mantra to live by still. And what's one simple habit that's had a large positive impact on your health.

Julianne: 30:36

April of 2020, I stopped having my phone in my bedroom, and I moved it to a different room and charge it in a totally different room. And it has transformed my sleep. And I can honestly say, the day I did that, I started dreaming every night before I wasn't dreaming. Whoa, yeah, it's transformed my sleep. And I've shared this with a few of my members who have tried this, and they come back. And they're like, because when you don't have your phone to roll over, and like, look at and scroll until like, two in the morning, you just go to sleep, and sleep. That's a whole nother podcast. But that's like the foundation of everything. So yeah, just that simple habit of having enough friction between me and my phone. So right,

Danielle: 31:20

excellent. And then this might be the same answer as the previous one, what but what's one thing you do every day to stay healthy?

Julianne: 31:28

Gratitude would be my answer. And many years ago, I started this practice where I have a little post it note where I write certain things that I'm grateful for. And then I keep it in a jar. And then it's tradition, my friend and I, we open it, New Year's Eve. And literally, it's like reliving all these moments of the year that probably would have fallen through the cracks. And just sometimes I'll take pictures and send it to my friend of like, oh my gosh, remember that hike that we did on April 2. And it's a really great way to relive these moments and to also pay attention to our days and, and record the good things that have happened. And I've kept all of these in like a plastic bag. So it's literally like a time capsule of all the good things that happened that year. And so I encourage other people if they had if they don't have a gratitude practice, just to begin when, because that reminds you of everything that's going well in your life.

Danielle: 32:21

What an amazing practice. Wow, wow. Excellent. And thanks so much for joining us and sharing all of your information about how food can affect mood. I know our listeners are absolutely going to appreciate it.

Crossover Health: 32:36

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