Culture of Stress (with Michael Boroff, PsyD)

Having too much to do (and not enough time in which to do it all) can make you feel overwhelmed and stressed. But there are healthy ways to cope—which is one reason why we're happy to bring Michael Boroff, PsyD back to the show. Listen in as he discusses how stress impacts our overall health and how mindfulness can help.

Transcript

Crossover Health: 0:03

happiness, success, freedom, energy, fun, balance, strength, peace. It all stems from our physical and emotional well being. You're in the right place for a healthy discussion with experts to show you the way. This is Be Well a podcast from crossover health, not sick is not enough. Being Well is a movement to get the most we want out of life. In each of our episodes, we pick a health or lifestyle topic, bring in one of our doctor from the frontlines and have a real conversation. Be well do good. Enjoy life.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 0:44

Hello, welcome to be well. My name is Daniel Heuseveldt, adult registered dietitian and board certified health coach. And today I am joined by my colleague and my dear friend, Dr. Michael bore off Welcome, Michael.

Unknown: 0:58

Thanks, Danielle.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 1:00

Today is very, very interesting topic. And I'm so excited to get into it, we're going to be talking about the culture of stress. Super exciting topic.

Unknown: 1:13

It is I think it's one that people are going to really relate to so, so glad to be having this conversation.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 1:19

Yeah, so let's just dive in, shall we? When I say the culture of stress, what comes to mind for you?

Unknown: 1:28

Yeah, I think about how in all our efforts to make things simpler for ourselves and make things easier in reality, what we've done is just increased our stress levels in so many ways. And I think there's so many cultural values and perspectives and narratives that contribute to the amount of stress that we experience and that really take away from our health, both physically and mentally. Are there some larger systems that really need to be influenced here so that we can be healthier?

Danielle Heuseveldt: 2:03

Yeah, absolutely. So the trade off is, you know, we're things that have made our lives quote unquote, easier in some ways, but also, then they're there's consequence, or there's a, you know, there's a payment owed for that convenience. So, can we talk a little bit more about maybe some of these systems and, and even like, maybe personal values or cultural values? Let's actually take a look at kind of the, the systems first. So when you say, systems that are in place that up our stress level? What do you mean?

Unknown: 2:42

Yeah, I, you know, I think about how we value people. And the value we place around work ethic, how important work is working hard achievement, those layers, and I think that goes back, and we can go back to the founding of this country and the kind of this in their view of work and, and how important it is, and work is important, many of us get a lot of value, personal meaning and value and purpose from our work. But it's kind of been perverted into something that really isn't healthy. For us, I think about things like, we don't use our PTO like that. And you can go online and look how many hours of PTO go unused in this country every year, that's paid time off. And as part of your benefit as an employee, you're supposed to use it. And people feel bad about the fact that, oh, if I take this vacation, I'm letting my team down, or I'm not going to get all the work done that I need to get. Or I'm going to take my PTO, but I'm gonna send an email out to everybody telling them how often I'll be checking my email while I'm on PTO. It's like no, detach, you need to separate from your work. We all need that. And for some reason. There are lots of reasons we feel bad about doing that.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 4:00

Yeah, absolutely. Right. So there is this, this idea that that a good portion of our value comes from how productive we are. And I mean, I think we can see this sometimes even in just our interpersonal relationships, like, Oh, what do you do for work or or the rally cry of the I'm so busy right now, right? Like and that's, that's like a, it's like a badge of honor in some way to be completely maxed out. So you have that belief system or that value placed maybe disproportionately on how productive you are? And so then, yeah, it leads into some of these actions, like not taking your PTO, what are some other ways that that infiltrates people's lives?

Unknown: 5:00

showing up to work sick, sick days. You know, I certainly have been guilty of that. Yeah, I therapy patients, I need to see like, I can't not show up for those. And meanwhile, I'm coughing and can't even like you. If you're sick, you need to take care of yourself, that needs to be priority one. I also just think about and a big part of this stress management kind of area we've been working on is mindfulness. And, you know, I think about the things that fill us up as people, you know, the things being, it's being with people we love, maybe it's being in nature, maybe it's being at a concert, whatever. And then we're on our phones, we're checking work emails, we're responding, yeah, we can't be present with this thing that actually is really important to us. And so we're not in one place at a time for her for a fractured in these different places. And that in itself is actually really stressful. It's always a mindfulness classes in the past, and often when people have really busy lives where they feel like they have to multitask, to get things done. And when people commit, hey, this week, I'm going to say no to multitasking, I'm going to do one thing at a time. And I'm going to let go of this idea that I'm not getting enough done. And I'm just going to do that the decrease in stress that they report when they do that is amazing. Like if we just do one thing at a time that in and of itself decreases our stress. But we don't have a culture that places value in that it feels like not doing enough.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 6:41

That's right, that supports that. And I think you talked about going to work sick as being one of the ways that this can infiltrate people's lives. And you talked about it in relation to physical sickness. But also, I think it also plays a role in people not feeling like they're allowed to take time when it's a mental health concern. You know, like taking a mental health day or taking time to address a mental health concern also feels like it's an added layer layer of taboo against that.

Unknown: 7:23

I think that's a really good point, it's, you know, there's something about that, that people feel like represents weakness, or, you know, the, and just carries so much judgment with it. And that's really hard, you know, we really, I would love for us to do better jobs of taking care of ourselves as people. And I think that's going to take addressing some of these kind of cultural narratives around stress and productivity as he brought it up. Like, that's, we really need to think these things through.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 8:02

Right. It also feels like it's both a external and an internal issue as well, because I don't think that we can deny that there is a external culture of this, right? There is the expectation of, you know, production, even when you're out on PTO, that you're, you're going to be available or you're going to be you know, you're gonna be available 24/7 to answer emails there. Oftentimes, there can be a even if it's unspoken, external expectation of that. What do you notice in your practice, on how this comes up? This sort of like, external versus maybe the expectation is internal? Of I'm going to do these things?

Unknown: 8:54

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think it's, it's varied across the, the people I've worked with during my clinical career, a lot of the folks I work with now, I think both are very present that, you know, they're often people who are really high achievers who've gotten a lot of kind of positive feedback about kind of their work their you know, what their productivity, even get rewarded for being available like it, you know, they get that positive feedback around, that just kind of reinforces that, that they need to be doing that. And so there's, there's the internal peace, the drive to be successful, the drive to kind of move forward and careers and sacrificing a lot to do that, you know, this is what I need to do to get to where I want to be in my career. And then there also kind of systems that reinforce that, like, nobody has a manager says, I noticed you responded to my email. They heard me last night Why did you do that? Stop. You know, I've never had a manager I've had some great bosses I've never had Abbas Tell me, why are you doing that? And I think about how much better off we'd be as a culture that that was the response instead of like a stop that, you know, be with your family. You know, binge Netflix show separate like that. Think about what life would look like if that's the case. Yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 10:22

Right. So you've got these internal beliefs, your internal value system, which might include achievement and success, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's great. And then, but that then, because we are able to be so connected at all times, and, you know, because we've got the ability to be reached in no less than, like, 12 different ways at any given moment. That system then taps into our drive to like, want to be productive and want to be successful and want to achieve. And then again, right, this is like, nobody's telling you to not do that. So it just reinforces that internal Well, this is, oh, well, but this is what achievement looks like, this is what I've got to do. To be productive to be seen as valuable to achieve in my career. Yeah, it's really an actually bring thinking about it as just not in your it's just not in the career setting. Like that's in I think, I think about the, you know, the upcoming holidays and our ability to just overextend ourselves. Yeah.

Unknown: 11:38

I think all times, yep. I think about how this kind of flows into parenting as well, I need to keep my kids busy all the time. I need to have them in all these activities. If I'm not doing that, it's not enough. I'm, you know, not not kind of not being the parent I need to be. It just It permeates through through our culture in so many ways. And I really, I mean, I really do you feel like it's, it's making us sicker. And as a society, it's something that we really need to address. And I think, you know, people want evidence of that, again, like, you know, I've places where I live, where I can go up into like nature, and there's no cell phone service, like all of a sudden, it's not even an option anymore. And I think about how good it feels like at first, maybe it's a little bit anxiety provoking, like, what if somebody needs me? What if What if something's happening at work, there's a crisis, whatever. But then that starts to float away, I kind of let those thoughts kind of float away, and I just enjoy being disconnected from it all and how good I feel after that. Yeah, to me, that's really strong evidence that we need that as people. And we just don't get it.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 12:54

It's very, very true. Because of the places where you are not connected, become less and less, but they do exist. And when you're forced to be kind of cut off from that. Yeah, it's a little anxiety producing to start but it's amazing how quickly Oh, quickly, that shifts into like, wow, why am I not doing this more often just disconnecting from the noise. Let's talk about how this impacts an individual's so we know that there are the internal and external culture and systems that are overextending us how, how do you see that impacting the individual?

Unknown: 13:40

Yeah, I think there are a variety of ways that that we see it and I think about we had a pol podcast I did on impostor syndrome, and I think, you know, kind of feeds into that narrative for folks sometimes that if I'm, you know, just further evidence, I'm a fraud if I need this. And so and that leads to depression, anxiety, you know, a lot of kind of mental health concerns. I've worked with people where they've worked 612 hour days a week for years on end and eventually their brains just shut down like they can't remember things anymore. Like it's just like their mind has gone blank. The brain has said you haven't stopped this so I'm going to stop it for you and really extreme cases like you see see that happen when people don't address this. And then I think and as a kind of a health coach, you see the physical pieces of this a lot as well. I think hypertension you know, the impact of stress eating on folks health and well being. Yeah,

Danielle Heuseveldt: 14:53

and the effects on just the effects of chronic stress the the stress my Isn't the hormones the effects that it has in blood pressure, diabetes and blood sugar management? And then yeah, then you add on to it. When we are so focused on being productive, we really are eliminating our self care, or greatly limiting our self care. And yeah, that you can, you can see that breakdown physically, and as you mentioned, as well as mentally,

Unknown: 15:28

yeah, I am the other place I think about sleep. And when you don't have a clear separation between work and home, and you kind of let yourself work later and later into the evening, you're on your electronic devices later and later in the evening. And we have so many people across the world who struggle with insomnia, and this is a huge factor that's contributing to that. And sleep has huge impacts on mental and physical health as well when we're not getting enough.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 15:56

Absolutely. That's absolutely right. And then, again, another vicious cycle, when you're not sleeping. Now, you don't have the resources to face yet another day of being on all the time and the stress that that brings. So now it's you're just, you have this cycle where you're really, you know, kind of running, running on empty, and people run on empty for a very, very long time.

Unknown: 16:27

And when you run an empty, you're less productive at work, you're less focused, and it just, it just keeps building. Yeah.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 16:37

So let's see if we can turn this frown upside down. What can people? What can we do about it? Because it seems like it's such a huge, insurmountable issue. But what are some things that people can start doing to reverse the cycle to address this culture of stress we're living in?

Unknown: 17:04

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think there are a lot of things people can do. And there are a lot of things that I suggest to people who are kind of dealing with these, think one, having some kind of a mindfulness practice, even if it's a few minutes a day is really helpful. Taking those breaks during the day, you know, and I think with many of the folks I work with, if they don't schedule them in, they're not going to happen. And so I was talking about scheduling your self care. So that is some pointment. It's something just like anything else, that this is something I'm expected to be at. And, and I'm going to do that. So I think that can be really helpful. I talk a lot about values and my my clinical work and thinking about what really is important to you. And if it is achievement and kind of career, you know, rising up the career ladder, that's fine. Just had that inform your decision making. If your health and well being is more important value than that if connection with family and relationships is more important than that. Are your decisions lining up? And do you maybe want to say, I'm okay, being a good enough employee, so that I can be a really great partner or be a really great parent, like, it's hard to do that all. And

Danielle Heuseveldt: 18:27

once heard that stress is when your actions do not align with your values. And I think there's definitely some truth in that, as you said, you know, if you're, if you want to be a great partner, a great parent, whatever. And so much of your time is not really dedicated to that value. Yeah, that can cause a great amount of distress, because it's not really aligning with like, what's at your core? Yeah.

Unknown: 19:03

Yeah, absolutely. And I do hear that from people I work with, where it's like, hey, what's actually where I get filled up as my family and work is pulling me away from that. And so then you have to think about, like, how does that inform your decision making moving forward and really be thinking about that and all values come with suffering attached to them pain, it's, you know, when you choosing to really care about one thing, it's going to come at some detriment to something else, and we have to kind of pick and choose, that's just the reality of being human. It is.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 19:37

It is. So what I'm hearing from you is that I really being truthful with yourself about your values or evaluating that because maybe you sort of know but you haven't, like really thought about it. Think about what your values are and how, how is where you're spending the majority of your time and energy She and I would even say maybe money like, as that aligning with with your values. So it's a good conversation for someone to have with themselves. Or if you need help with that, seeing a coach or a mental health provider who can help you have that conversation. But also, a more tactical part is, is starting a mindfulness practice. And, and I'm here to tell you, it's just not all about sitting in silent meditation, there's so many ways to bring mindfulness into your life. So check out our resources on that, because it's there's way more ways to be mindful than just sitting in meditation.

Unknown: 20:42

I think it's such an important point, Danielle, and I, you know, when I, when I introduce mindfulness to people, I always hope this because I was all initially really rejecting of it, I just a person tends to kind of be busy and active, and it felt like I wasn't doing anything, and it was just really hard to get into it. And part of what helped me is understanding initially that there were other ways of doing it, there are different entry points to being mindful. And sometimes that's, that's a better starting place than sitting and focusing on your breath and doing that. I've gotten to a place where I can do that, and then really see the benefit in that as well. But it was hard initially,

Danielle Heuseveldt: 21:22

yeah. And there are and people, there's going to be people who gravitate towards meditation. And it's great for me personally, that was never my jam. I can't be left alone with my thoughts for that long. So active forms of mindfulness sort of works better as a soloist. For me, that's very mindful, because I need to be present. So that I'm not sewing a sleeve on wronged or which has happened, but it to me, that's a mindfulness, right. So I can bring that into something that I really enjoyed doing. But that is active. It's not just me sitting in, in silence. So the point is, folks, mindfulness can look all different ways. And if you have it in your mind that it's like this one certain thing, be prepared to be amazed because it is

Unknown: 22:15

more than that. Very well put down. Yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 22:19

So if that mindfulness, you've got getting in touch with our values, any other thing and suggestions that you would give folks for how to break the culture of stress?

Unknown: 22:31

Yeah, I think we talked also about scheduling and your self care. You know, I think that's really important committing to using your PTO setting goals with yourself, or if you have a great manager, like actually having that as a goal, like, my goal is to use my PTO, I need you to hold me accountable. But this, you know, I think that's a great strategy. And then I also think about the A part of bind fullness, when you think of the core components that you know, it's observing, it's, it's doing things one mindfully, so one thing at a time, and then it's doing a non judgmentally. And I think that's often the hardest one, we're so critical of ourselves. So the I would really encourage people listening to this to notice your self critical thoughts, the the judgment that comes in and not accept those as facts, actually ask yourself, like, hey, where is this coming from? Like, is this Is this me? Is this a cultural message that I've taken in? Is it serving me? And to really kind of think through that judgment? Because I think that's often a huge barrier to people actually doing things to manage their stress.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 23:42

It really, really is that that inner critic has a loud and obnoxious voice often, and if we can just be self noxious, if we can just be like, okay, all right, I see you and I'm not judging. I'm not judging the thought. But I see you. Okay. Let's be curious. Right, because they think there's a certain amount of curiosity because it's mindfulness. But to be curious about where this thought is coming from, and also I also find sometimes if I can just say like, Thank you, inner critic. I understand at some level here you're trying to protect me. Okay, but your services aren't needed. Now not helpful but yeah, right. Like if you can kind of look at that those thoughts with curiosity and non judgment.

Unknown: 24:34

And I love how you you kind of talked back to your critic there and even like some laughter like you think about what can disarm that and humor and just really kind of Yeah, that laughter is such a powerful we can talk about that today. We haven't talked about that as a as a de stressor, but laughter is just magical, including in response to your your inner critic, because sometimes what the Inner Critic has to say it's just ridiculous.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 25:02

Absurd. And it's it's amazing how long we just take that we accept it at face value, oh, man, it's legitimate. And then when you bring mindfulness to it, and you step out of it, and you almost look at that thought from like a third party. Wait a minute. That's not right. That's absurd. Yeah, but it takes practice. So to your point, like starting a mindfulness practice, and, and practicing it is super, super helpful, because it doesn't, it's not automatic, you got to work at it.

Unknown: 25:39

And in fact, it's the opposite. You know, we've, what's automatic is that that kind of thought pattern that becomes so fixed. And I always kind of liken it, you know, when you think about your brain, and they're like freeways in the brain, this isn't like, you know, horse drawn carriage anymore. This, it happens so fast, that it's hard to slow down and even realize it's happening. And so it takes real work in practice to kind of rebuild the roads into something that actually works for you. It did, it's hard.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 26:09

But here's the thing, folks, I want you to just pay attention to what Michael said about rebuilding the roads. Because here's the beauty of practicing mindfulness, you can rebuild the roads, those thoughts by always, on some level, be automatic that again, that inner critic is trying to serve a purpose, but so that you might always have those thoughts. However, the more mindfulness you practice, the more you actually rebuild those pathways into something that is more constructive. So practice, and, and, and repetition of mindfulness can can make it easier in the long run.

Unknown: 26:50

It's such a great point, Daniel, and I don't think people realize this, I have a lot of folks who are kind of engineers that I see where science is so important, they'll actually ask me the research and the neurobiology behind these things. We have functional MRIs of the brain undergoing like a mindfulness practice. And what you see at the beginning of a mindfulness practice and what you see, four or five months down the road for people have done it, the brain actually functions differently. When we practice it, it's actually it's amazing. And the brain has the site service neuroplasticity, it has the ability to rewire itself in that way, if you do the things you need to do. So plenty of hope here for for people to feel better, right? And if we

Danielle Heuseveldt: 27:33

can't change the system, and this probably is a conversation for a different day on systemically, how can we change the culture of stress? I mean, I think if we be answered to that, we'd be getting some sort of Nobel Prize, I would hope. So we can't always control the culture that is around us, we can't always control some of these things. So I wouldn't hoping you all took out today, it was maybe some tangible first steps on as an individual what you may be able to do to function better, and to push back a little bit on this culture of of stress that we find ourselves living in. Michael, any closing thoughts for our listeners?

Unknown: 28:18

I think you summed up, summed it up really well, Danielle, I, you know, whenever we do these, I just always encourage people to have an action step that comes out of it, it's easy to watch this and totally connect to it, and then not do anything with it. It's true. So we've given you some strategies, commit to try one, you know, just just, you know, pick one, you don't need to pick all of them that may be overwhelming. But pick one and commit to doing it. And what I always tell people is when it's new, put it somewhere where you can see it, do a sticky note, put it on a whiteboard, put it someplace where you're reminding yourself that hey, this is a goal I'm working on so that you're able to hold yourself accountable to it. And if it's hard, still hard to do that. And I think you mentioned this Danielle, we can help it crossover we have that's all providers, coaches who are really able to help be a guide as you develop these practices.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 29:13

Yes. And you know, again, this isn't necessarily hardwired for you it's a quite the opposite, right? So if you need help getting into this is exactly what we're here for. So please take advantage of it. We would love to help you on this journey. Because we we want to see you living your best life and, and being healthy mentally and physically. And so yeah, if you need us, please come and see us. Thank you so much for being here. It's so such an awesome conversation.

Unknown: 29:43

Yeah, thanks, Danielle. Really enjoyed it.

Danielle Heuseveldt: 29:45

And and for those of you listening as always take care. And B well.

Crossover Health: 29:50

Anyone 18 or over in the United States can be a crossover health member. At crossover. You stay connected to a care team that works together and gets Know you over time, a doctor, a nurse, a mental health expert, a physical therapist, a chiropractor, a health coach, a fitness coach and a care navigator. Go to crossover health.com to join the healthcare revolution. If you like our podcast, please follow or subscribe and leave a review. If you have a topic you want us to explore. Let us know on Facebook or Instagram at crossover health. Until next time, be well