The Life Challenges Podcast
Inner Battles: Understanding and Overcoming Temptations
What if the real battle of temptation lies within us rather than from external forces? Join us as we challenge the common misconception that the devil is the primary root of our struggles. This episode dives deep into the distinction between temptations and tests of faith, drawing from scriptural accounts of Jesus' own encounters in the wilderness. We emphasize personal responsibility and the internal origins of temptation, urging listeners to recognize and take charge of their weaknesses.
What if the real battle of temptation lies within us rather than from external forces? Join us as we challenge the common misconception that the devil is the primary root of our struggles. This episode dives deep into the distinction between temptations and tests of faith, drawing from scriptural accounts of Jesus' own encounters in the wilderness. We emphasize personal responsibility and the internal origins of temptation, urging listeners to recognize and take charge of their weaknesses.
On today's episode. Hi and welcome back. I'm Ch Krista Potratz and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischmann and Jeff Samelson, and today we're going to talk about temptations. You might be thinking, well, that's kind of an interesting topic, or why talk about temptations? But there are so many different areas where the devil works and when we talk about too, like our different life and family issues. There's just so many different areas there. But maybe just starting, yeah, why really focus on this topic of temptations, and can we even just break apart like what a temptation even is?
Jeff Samelson:even just break apart, like what a temptation even is. Well, when you're translating from the original languages in the scripture, particularly in the Greek, sometimes there's a question okay, should we translate this with the word tempt or should we translate it with the word test? And that's a helpful thing to remember, because we normally think of the temptation as simply, okay, this is the thing that's leading you directly into sin. But from a Christian perspective, it's also a test of your faith. A rubber meets the road kind of situation. You are presented with an opportunity to sin. Are you going to take that road or are you going to take the other road?
Jeff Samelson:When Jesus goes into the wilderness right after his baptism and Satan meets him to tempt him, it's phrased as he's attesting of Jesus, and that's really what it is, because, of course, jesus doesn't give in to any of the temptations and it ends up just being a test that Jesus passes with flying colors. And so when we're talking about temptation for everyone, really this is something that comes up hard always to figure out. Okay, where did this temptation come from? But it's a test of your faith. Are you going to stick with what is good and godly or are you going to go the other direction. That leads you into sin.
Bob Fleischmann:And the idea of temptation is that it comes from inside of you. In other words, when you, the scripture talks about sexual temptation and it says you should flee it, and the reason you flee it is because it's coming from within you. It's not like a full frontal assault from Satan. You're wrestling with internal forces. The Apostle Paul very practically described it as the good that I would do, that I do not, the evil I would not do, that I keep on doing. You sometimes get the impression that the devil world in your own flesh keeps poking around and poking around until it finds your weak spot. And when it finds your weak spot, you begin to experience all sorts of assaults in that area. Part of the problem is it's hard to escape it because you know it's one of those we have found the enemy and it is me or it is I.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, bob's point about it being something that comes from within. I mean, that's jesus made that point. He said you know, what makes a man unclean is what comes from within, it's not the outside things. Boy, this this is dating me, but back in the I guess, the 70s, because I actually remember it, there was a comedian on tv with a variety show, flip Flip Wilson, and he had this recurring thing of oh, the devil made me do it.
Jeff Samelson:And I don't think anybody would be likely to be using that today, because people don't believe in the devil. But the idea is there that, oh well, this thing happened to me, rather than, yeah, I chose to do this thing. We would rather think that all the temptations that come to us we're completely out of control of. You know that these are things that are happening to us and well, I just, I can't help but give in because it's not, it's not up to me.
Jeff Samelson:The point that Bob was making, which is what Jesus made, is that, no, these things are actually originating inside you and because we all have a sinful nature, we like to think that, oh, yeah, the devil got inside me somehow, or the devil got inside him somehow and did that. But apart from a few situations, like when we're specifically told in scripture that the devil entered Judas when it came time to betray Jesus, there's really not much of a biblical basis for saying oh yeah, the devil gets inside me to do this. It's like no, it's your own sinful nature, and the reason I'm making a big point out of this is simply that this is a matter of responsibility and recognizing that, yeah, these temptations are things that I have to take seriously because I'm the one who's responsible for them and I can't lay the blame elsewhere.
Christa Potratz:I think that's a really good point because you know, I mean as you're talking and Bob talking too, you know I'm just thinking of like, well, you know, even the garden is being tempted by the devil, and but I mean, at that point there probably wasn't any innate sinful nature that Eve had. And so I mean there was kind of just the devil there and yeah. So I'm just kind of thinking about that as you're talking too, and just how different that circumstance was maybe than things that we're dealing with too.
Bob Fleischmann:I find it interesting that James said that you resist the devil and Paul writes you flee temptation. And I've often maybe drawn more significance in that distinction than I should. But I always thought the idea was, if I open the door and the devil's standing there, I'll duke it out with him. My problem is problem is that if I'm tempted, you don't stand around to fight. People will say that They'll say well, you know, I'm an adult, I can withstand this temptation. I have a temptation towards drunkenness, so okay, but I can keep alcohol around the house for when people come by. Well, a lot of the people who wrestle with drunkenness that I know of can't resist. Just give them a little time and pretty soon it's a little sip and one thing leads to another. Why? Because they were treating it like the devil. I'm going to resist the devil, I'm going to fight, I'm going to put it in front of me.
Bob Fleischmann:This is a temptation, it comes from within. You flee. That's hard. It's hard for all of us, because sometimes temptation abounds. And then what's interesting too is what might be a temptation for one person is not a temptation for another person. I always remember and I think I've mentioned it before Prophet Decem, when I was in the seminary, had said that he was the brightest guy I ever knew, virtually had the Bible memorized. It was remarkable, but he said, yeah, the Lord knew what he was doing when he assigned me to a church in Iowa and not Nevada. He said never had a temptation to drink, never had a temptation to run around with other women. But I don't think I could have withstood the temptation to gamble.
Christa Potratz:He made it a conscious effort to identify what the temptation was and he just he fled from it.
Christa Potratz:Yeah and I think too, you know, when you were saying too, like how sometimes we want to duke it out with the devil or that type of thing and that fleeing concept. The devil is very crafty. You know I'm going to botch it here, but you know something about like how somebody praying and saying God, help me to not only distinguish between good and evil, but like good and almost evil, or just those were evil and almost. You know, like where you that line because that is often where the temptations happen is just like a little bit over, or you move a little bit more than you should. And then you think, okay, I'm okay here, which I mean we'll probably talk about with the life issues and things you know, and like, all right, well, I'm okay here, but maybe not here, or how do I stay on the good, so to speak, path or the good side of things? And so, yeah, kind of you know with that.
Jeff Samelson:Then, going into some of these things, what are the temptations that create issues specifically for life? Well, I think sexual temptation is probably the one that comes to mind first, simply because abortion is is the preeminent life issue and women are usually seeking abortion because there has been sexual activity and majority of those times that that sexual activity has been outside of marriage and so there there is definite sexual sin there and it was temptation that led into that. But it doesn't just lead to abortion. It leads to children who are born but growing up without fathers, for instance, because there wasn't committed marriage involved there and things like that. I'd say, related to that is a desire for sexual freedom, free love, to that is a desire for sexual freedom, free love, do whatever. And that leads to life challenges.
Jeff Samelson:With birth control, obviously, abortion again. But even with what we might say some of the anti-life practices associated with IVF, there's that idea well, we can have our fun now because we can always do this other thing later when we think it's time, and a lot of bad choices, things that are anti-life as a result of people just thinking well, you know, hey, we can do whatever we want in this area.
Bob Fleischmann:I've been doing a lot of studying in Genesis 3. Just actually Genesis 1, 2, and 3, I've gone through it forwards and backwards in the original Hebrew and trying to trace down all the things that were ever said about what happened back then. And I've always been trying to wrestle with what was Eve looking to accomplish and what was in it for the devil. And I believe that what happened in the Garden of Eden is what we see play out in a lot of life issues, and that is, eve already understood the difference between good and evil, because when the devil said, well, go ahead, you know, here, have this. And she went and quoted him, quoted God back and said, no, no, we can do this, but we can't do that. She knew between right and wrong. But then the devil basically said oh, come on, you can be like God, you become the arbiter of good and evil, you become the known one. And it was pleasing to the eye, pleasing to the taste and desirable for knowing good and evil. And I think what Eve was after was yeah, I can be like God, I can decide.
Bob Fleischmann:And a lot of times what happens in life and family issues is that, I think, the immorality that surrounds a lot of the life issues is what you see on the surface. I think you see that a lot. Well, a lot of times, when we've taught it in catechism class and so forth, we talk about sin being rebellion against God. And when we talk about rebellion against God, what do we mean? Rebellion against God? If I rebel against my government, I can be imprisoned or executed, but we sometimes downplay rebellion against God.
Bob Fleischmann:What if you can't downplay rebellion against God? So if I think it's not the right time for me to have this baby, so the baby can be aborted, okay, clearly, scripture says God is the author and the terminator of life. So when I presume that authority, it's a rebellion against God. I'm trying to usurp God's authority. And so a lot of times, what we find in life and family issues is that we like God as long as he agrees with us. But if I want a same-sex relationship, if I want to terminate someone's life early because it's no longer having meaning based on my standards, I basically have taken myself and wedged it in front of God and said I will decide this, and so that's how I think it really plays out, and maybe we need to get back to understanding what it means to rebel, rebelling against God. We seem to tolerate rebellion against God a lot better than we do against the government.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, and taking that just kind of a step further in terms of the phrasing, just the playing of God. It's like I am going to make the decisions that God really should be the one making. That's certainly behind euthanasia, suicide, medical assistance in dying, this idea of, well, I'm not dead yet. I think I should be. I'm going to make that decision. Or my dear aunt who's in a coma isn't dead yet, so I'm going to make the decision that she should be dead, or some doctor or scientist doing that.
Jeff Samelson:And it's also involved with experimentation on human embryos and cloning and certain fertility treatments. As mentioned, it's the idea of, like we're not satisfied with what God's doing here, so we know better and so we're going to make the decisions. That should only be his, and that's a powerful temptation, especially as our society gets more knowledge and science and technology and everything like that. People are more and more convinced that we know everything there is to know, so of course we should be making the decisions.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, no, I think that's so true and kind of just pulling some of these other temptations out too. Are there any other specific temptations related to family and marriage or even unique temptations with pro-lifers as well?
Bob Fleischmann:Well, it's definitely a two-way street. You know, I think one of our worst problems that we do in Christian circles in general, pro-life circles specifically we tend to look at the speck in the brother's eye without paying attention to the two-by-four in our own eye. We think that the inclination to evil only is with the other side and not with our side, and so forth. And so I think it's valuable for the pro-life community to always remember what its ultimate mission is, and that is not merely the saving or protecting of life or the integrity of marriage and so forth. But you, ultimately, are God's extension. So God's wish is that for all people to be saved. That becomes your wish, and so you start making judgments about the way that I stand strong and the way I stand up for these things and ask yourself am I accomplishing God's work or have I just simply picked this little niche that I like and kind of ignored the rest? And one of the things and I quick scribbled this note here while Jeff was talking we tend to godify, and I grant that that's my made-up word. We tend to godify a lot of what we do. We wrap it in a Christian cloth. We'll say you know, we're supposed to speak up for those who can't speak for themselves, and that's absolutely right, we are, and you know, every one of us is supposed to be some sort of voice, but then we kind of ignore the other parts that say with gentleness and respect and with great patience, and so forth, and so instead we become almost militant. And when you become militant you start erecting walls and we've talked about walls as opposed to bridges and reaching people. Everything we're supposed to be doing is designed to build a relationship.
Bob Fleischmann:When I study what Jesus' relationship with the people of his time and with the religious leaders Jesus did, you notice that he wasn't working really hard on building a relationship with the religious leaders.
Bob Fleischmann:Even Nicodemus, you know, when you would study that dialogue that took place, he was almost kind of harsh. He just kind of was a little bit on the you know the terse side, like you're a religious leader and you don't know this stuff. I think part of the problem is that the people were sheep without shepherds, and so he got them back into the Word of God and he was constantly proclaiming, preaching to them, and I think that what happens is when people drift away from Scripture, they create a Scripture in their head that's what I mean by Godifying so they remember a passage and then they'll use it, but they won't remember all the other passages. And so we've encountered in our centers you know, I've told the story for like 30 years, but we literally had a Wells mother bring in a Wells daughter into one of our centers and when the counselor talked to her For an abortion, yeah yeah, and talked to the daughter about the daughter made.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, I know God would not want me to be unhappy and, of course, well, where did you find that in the Bible? But they don't because. Why? Because they probably got it from Touched by an Angel or Seventh Heaven or something. They get more religion from watching religious conversation in a TV show or a movie than they do from the Bible.
Bob Fleischmann:And I think the real issue here, where you see this temptation playing a role in the life issues, is it's a little bit like being out in a boat and the Bible is land. And you get on the boat, you drift away. A little bit like being out in a boat and the Bible is land. And you get on the boat, you drift away a little bit from land and then you start fishing and pretty soon you, instead of fishing on the side of the boat that faces the land, you're fishing on the other side of the boat that gets you further out to sea and then all of a sudden you turn around. You don't even see land anymore and now you're lost. You don't know where you are, and what I think I'm seeing a lot of right now in America is in the pro-life.
Bob Fleischmann:Even in the Christian community we see a lot of religiously minded people who somehow lost sight of the land. They're not quoting scripture, they're not coming back to it. I just this morning was the announcement that the Southern Baptist Convention had spoken out against IVF, and of course, other Christians are getting all worked up. I mean, clearly nobody's reading their Bible. The Southern Baptists, they nailed it. I mean, they got it right. There's a problem here that needs to be addressed and we've talked about it in other podcasts. But the other Christians, well, that's the part of the Bible. Either we don't know or we don't like Darrell.
Jeff Samelson:Bock, yeah, I think that relates to one of the things that is perhaps not noticed so much. That's a temptation that I'd say specifically creates life and family issues, and I would call that a happy immaturity. Where you're, you know, you're just not willing to do the work to step up as a parent, to learn to regulate your emotions, to learn to be considerate of other people, whether that's as a spouse or a parent or whatever that you know you're just kind of like well, I just, you know I'm happy being where I am and I I don't think there's any reason why I should grow. And, uh, obviously, if you're in any kind of relationship, and particularly if you have a responsibility in that relationship, that's going to lead to issues in your, in your family, your relationship issues and and and who knows, maybe even trauma and things like that as well. And that relates just to fundamentally, particularly in the family, the issue of ego. I'm the one who knows what's right.
Jeff Samelson:Who are you to suggest anything different? How dare you suggest that I might have done something wrong? I'm going to get a little defensive about that. And you hurt me. Why should I forgive you? Why should I model forgiveness to my children? They got to know who's in charge here. You know all these things. They seem like they're just little, kind of discrete issues, but they're destructive of the family and, you know, of relationships and whether we're talking marriage or parent-child relationships, and we often are not even aware that we're being tempted in these directions because it's just what seems natural for us.
Jeff Samelson:This is who I am and you know that's the kind of thing that you know you'll get from people a lot. It's just like oh, that's just the. You know the way I am. In other words, don't expect me to change. I might admit that there's just a little bit of something wrong with this, but yeah, you know, don't expect me to change. I might admit that there's just a little bit of something wrong with this, but yeah, don't expect me to change, and that's something, therefore, that we, as Christians to understand.
Jeff Samelson:We're in a constant state of trying to improve, trying to get rid of sin means that we have to do the self-evaluation and say oh yeah, I guess that wasn't right of me, I need to apologize and I need to work to fix that.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, and I think when you mentioned too, like doing that self-evaluation or maybe even having somebody call you out on it, or that type of thing too, it's just so easy today to find yourself in whatever really behavior you want to do, to be validated in that behavior, because I mean, I even think of how social media and if I go on YouTube, it shows me things that I've clicked on. So I'm always seeing kind of the side of the issue that I believe on, or you know, or what would I think I stand for, or something like that too. And so we're constantly we can get validated on whatever behavior we are into or whatever thing we think is good, as opposed to seeing the whole picture of something too.
Bob Fleischmann:And we, way over, validate mutual consent. I mean the idea that I feel that way and you feel that way. So therefore we mutually consent, so we could do it, paying no attention to the fact that both of you could be way off track. And you know I remember this is many. This is almost as far back as Flip Wilson. But Carol O'Connor was Archie Bunker, you know, in All in the Family.
Christa Potratz:You guys, I'm really lost.
Bob Fleischmann:Yes, I know you are, but you'll go home now and watch TV Land and get all caught up on it.
Bob Fleischmann:But actually what I remember about him, about the actor Carol O'Connor, is his son died of a drug overdose and I remember him being interviewed and he was livid. He was deeply, deeply angry at the person who sold the drugs. Now he was fully aware of the fact that there was a mutual consent in the exchange of these drugs. But the point is is that his son was wrong, the seller was wrong, and just because there was a mutual consent meant nothing. Nowadays, you know, we notice it at the end of life.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, I know my father would not like to live like that, so we pulled the plug, you know, or something like that and everything. Well, I know my father would not like to live like that, so we pulled the plug, you know, or something like that and everything. Well, maybe your father was wrong, I know. You know we both wanted to have sexual relations but we didn't want a child yet. Well, maybe you were both wrong. And you know, jeff kind of touched on that. You've got to be willing to acknowledge, take a step back and say I might be wrong, I could have been wrong. And of course, when you come to that conclusion, you have to arrive at it with something far better than just a notion in your head.
Jeff Samelson:Error or wrongness has to be dictated by an objective source, which is the Word of God. And even just basically embracing the idea that there is wrongness and that we shouldn't be comfortable with it is important for fighting some of these temptations that are problems for life and family issues. It's tempting to go along, to get along. I know what's right, but I'm going to keep quiet about it, I don't want to make waves or anything like that. And then the next step is you just embrace the culture's values because that's the easy way, that's more comfortable, that's more convenient and, like Bob's illustration, you're getting farther and farther away from the shore where God's standards are, and it is just so easy, so tempting to do that on whatever the issue might be, and so we have to recognize that yeah there is a right and there is a wrong and we're supposed to stay away from the wrong in every way and help others stay away from the wrong, because that's not just a Christian concern, that's a you know, a love your neighbor, concern for society.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, I mean I think we've done a good job. You know of talking through some of these temptations and everything and kind of. You know how you were talking a little bit too about just trying to help our neighbor and that type of thing. Where now can we find strength and guidance to respond to these temptations, now that we kind of know what they are? How do we combat them, so to speak?
Jeff Samelson:Give the Sunday school answer God and Jesus.
Christa Potratz:Right. So I mean, as I'm asking the question, I'm like, all right, well, you know prayer and God's word, but what does that really look like to a believer, to a Christian?
Bob Fleischmann:Well, you know, my first blush is I was fascinated in church history learning about what they were called the monastics. You know the idea is that, well, the best way to avoid temptation is to, you know, sequester myself away from it. And I find myself doing that on occasion. I love the safety within my own home. I love the—and to some degree, we feel that way when we go to church. That's supposed to be sometimes your kind of, your oasis away from a world that's full of sin and trials. But the thing is is that escapism is not the answer, because you are also called upon to flavor the earth, to be the light to the world, to share the gospel. So you've got to figure out how to do it. I think part of the answer is if you're going to walk on water, you better know where the stones are. You don't have the miraculous ability to walk on all the water, so you got to know where your vulnerabilities are. And the older I get, the more I'm beginning to understand that, in my quest to learn to understand people, I sometimes overlook the first guy I should be studying, and that's me. You know, you learn your own vulnerabilities, you learn your flaws, you learn where your pride, your arrogance. You learn where all that is, and so the way you avoid, you flee from temptation is to be able to recognize it when it's in front of you. So you got to do it.
Bob Fleischmann:Now we know a lot of people have trouble with pornography and stuff like that. Then, of course, people say, well, that's just too much to tell me to give up using the internet and so forth. Well, okay, go ahead and molest children and tell me what's going to happen after that. They take away the internet from you. You know the prisoners that I've dealt with that have been convicted of these things. They live the rest of their lives without the Internet. They use flip phones. So, first of all, it's not impossible, but the point is that sometimes things are a problem Spending time together as a husband and wife, to hold the marriage together, in other words, if you find that you're drifting apart, well, the fact that you realize you're drifting apart might be clue number one that you've got to change the way you're doing things. And so what you've got to look at. You've got to understand where the vulnerabilities are so that you can address them individually.
Christa Potratz:Yeah, I mean I think you know, when you were talking about being able to recognize temptation, I feel like that is such a good thing because, yes, how do you flee from what you don't know is bad, of course, like being in God's Word, but also praying too that we're able to distinguish between those things and being able to recognize temptation, I think, is such a big part of it.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, I'll throw in a saying or a quote. It's often credited to Luther, but he's really just the one who popularized it. It was existed before him, but it's something along the lines of you can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from making a nest in your hair. Talking about temptation, you can't keep temptations away entirely. They're going to come, both because of our sinful nature and because we live in a world where there are temptations. The question is what do you do with them? Do you keep them just flying over your head? Then you know they're not going to be an issue for you. But if they land on your head and say let's stay here, that's when you should be shooing them away and saying no, no, I'm not going to have anything to do with that, and so that's a practical thing. Just keep your distance from the things that you know are troublesome.
Jeff Samelson:But going back to the God and Jesus thing, the writer of Hebrews tells us about Jesus that we don't have a high priest who was not tempted, but we have one who was tempted in every way, just as we are, and yet he was without sin, which is a kind of a mind blowing thing, because it's pretty much impossible for us to conceive of temptation that doesn't involve at least a little sin somewhere. But in Hebrews it also says that because Jesus suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted, which means that we can turn to him and we get strength from him. We get encouragement from him, knowing that it is possible to withstand this. He did stand in the way for us and do what we could not. He did stand in the way for us and do what we could not. So we have the power there to withstand the temptations that otherwise might feel like we're completely at the mercy of.
Bob Fleischmann:And I think the other thing to remember too is that generally the temptation to sin, and specifically to sin in the arena of life issues, it creeps up on you. It's generally not like you know. One day I was against abortion and today I'm in favor of abortion. It whittles away and we're told in Scripture that is the nature of sin is that it eventually leads to death. You know that. The idea is planted, you become persuaded by elaborate arguments and maybe emotional appeals and pretty soon you get pulled away, pulled away, pulled away, and then all of a sudden you're completely flipped on it and none of it had any basis in Scripture. But going back to my original analogy of drifting away from shore, sometimes you just need to get back to shore or sometimes you just need to get back to shore.
Christa Potratz:Anything else on this topic at all, Anything. Any final words of wisdom to our listeners as they go out into the world here.
Jeff Samelson:Well, I guess I'll just add one, that it's easy to focus kind of on the negative, like how do we keep these things or stay away from these things, how do we keep them from becoming problems. But I think it's always helpful to say, well, how about, instead of focusing on the negative, how about focus on the positive instead? And I always return to this, actually, one of my favorite passages in Paul in Philippians 4. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if anything is excellent and if anything is praiseworthy, think about these things, things that you learned, received, heard and saw in me. Keep doing these things, and the God of peace will be with you. The more you fill your mind and your time with what is good and godly, the less room there is for temptations to get a hold of you and lead to sin, and I just think that's a lesson that we all have to relearn every day.
Christa Potratz:Well, that's wonderful. Thank you, as this conversation was going on too, I was thinking of just the armor of God, and I think it's the belt of truth, is what we wear, and just kind of being able to be grounded in that truth too of the Word of God can also help with temptations as well. So well, thank you both for this discussion and we thank all of our listeners, and if you have any questions or any feedback on this topic, please reach out to us and we look forward to having you back next time. Bye.