The Life Challenges Podcast
The Life Challenges Podcast
What’s Trending? Election Results and Latest MAID News from Canada
Could the recent election results signal a seismic shift within the Republican Party? Join us as we dissect the complex political landscape where Donald Trump clinched the presidency, yet states that backed him paradoxically moved to enshrine abortion rights. We navigate through the convoluted results of referenda across ten states, highlighting the striking dissonance within the pro-life movement. While states like Florida, Nebraska, and South Dakota bolstered pro-life measures, others faltered, exposing a nuanced challenge: aligning unwavering political support with staunch pro-life values. Our conversation also touches on West Virginia's notable achievement in safeguarding against assisted suicide and euthanasia, spotlighting the persistent struggle to align moral convictions with political realities.
Explore how progressive ideologies are reshaping ethical boundaries, particularly as we spotlight the ongoing shifts in Canada's stance on medical assistance in dying. Our discourse veers from the traditional focus on women's rights to a more contentious narrative centered on life protection, questioning the societal normalization of issues like gay marriage and perceived shifts in women's roles. As we wade through these multifaceted issues, the need for clarity and effective communication from leaders becomes evident. Join us in examining the need for a reevaluation of values and the courage required to face uncomfortable truths, all while hoping for a resurgence of pro-life voices within the Democratic Party.
SHOW NOTES:
Canada's MAID law and the dangerous implications for the potential of abortion expanding to infanticide: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html
Canada's assisted suicide law and abuse is also something to talk about: https://www.liveaction.org/news/judge-blocks-assisted-suicide-woman-bipolar/
https://www.liveaction.org/news/pushed-legal-euthanasia-canada-say-being-abused/
On today's episode….
Bob Fleischmann:The fact that a majority of the people who voted didn't have a problem saying that I'm fine living in a state where children are expendable says something bigger about those of us who minister to the minds Every Sunday from the pulpit. We talk about God's Word, we talk about the supremacy of the Word of God. We talk about what God values should be what I value, and how that got miscommunicated down the road is unfortunate.
Paul Snamiska:Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources.
Christa Potratz:People today face many opportunities and struggles when it comes to issues of life and death. Hi and welcome back. I'm Krista Potratz and I'm here today with Pastors Bob Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson. Today we're going to talk about the November current events in our what's Trending episode, and we're going to start with, I think, probably one of the biggest things going on, and that was the election, and we want to just talk about it. We're going to start talking about it, and I just also want to remind people too that we have done quite a few episodes on politics and election and the Constitution and just a bunch of different things, and so if you're ever, you know, wanting more information, we have touched on a lot of things previously too. You can see that information at lifechallengesus and we can link that in the show notes below too. But we do want to kind of talk about the election and what happened and, just as Christians, how we can kind of view things going forward too. I just want to open it up, then, with any thoughts on what we saw.
Jeff Samelson:I'm guessing most of our listeners are aware that Donald Trump won the election for the presidency, so we don't need to talk about that aspect of it. But I think, particularly for our purposes with this podcast, one of the most significant things that life was on the ballot abortion on the ballot. And I'm not saying that just in the sense of the fact that the Harris campaign very, very, very much emphasized the abortion issue, but specifically in 10 states the abortion issue, but specifically in 10 states there were referenda on constitutional amendments to their state constitutions regarding abortion.
Jeff Samelson:And there were 10 of those. Three of those went the pro-life way, seven of them did not Florida, nebraska and South Dakota those were wins. They fought off putting a right to abortion in the state constitution Arizona, colorado, maryland, missouri, montana, nevada and New York. They solidified the right to abortion in their state constitutions. Reading some pro-life news the last two days, they're talking about what a great thing it was to win in Florida.
Jeff Samelson:And yeah, sure that's nice, but batting 300, it's not bad for baseball players, but it's not good at all for bodyguards. And that's kind of what pro-life voters should, in a way, see themselves as they're out there to protect. And it was very interesting Today's, thursday after the election, this morning's Washington Post, there was an article just summing up all of these and it was very interesting because it billed everything both in the headline and down in the article itself in terms of protection. But it was not talking about protecting life in the womb, it was talking about protecting abortion. So it was rejoicing in that. 7 out of 10.
Jeff Samelson:An important thing for pro-lifers to remember that many of those seven states that enshrined the right to abortion went for Trump in this election, and even Florida, where they did not do that, that amendment, or that proposed amendment, got 57% of the vote. It needed 60 to pass. We're happy that it didn't. But what this means is that many, many people, many millions of people who voted for Trump did not vote for life, for protecting life in the womb. Now, whether this is through ignorance of what the real issues were or conscious choice doesn't really matter that much, because it shows that these people could not be counted on to support pro-life political or legislative ends, and it also tells Republican politicians that being solidly and actively pro-life just isn't that important in terms of getting elected. Now, that's going to vary, of course, by region and locality and things like that, but as a general thing that's the case. I will say there was one other pro-life victory. It didn't have to do with abortion.
Bob Fleischmann:The state of West Virginia basically enshrined protections against assisted suicide and euthanasia in their state constitution, and that was a very good thing it is interesting to watch how well, because those of you listening to us who are not from Wisconsin just remember that Wisconsin was considered to be one of the pivotal states in the presidential election.
Bob Fleischmann:So, as a result, we were bombarded with campaign ads and it was not uncommon to have like a half dozen of them in a row and they would be completely contradictory. There would be for the Senate. You'd have one candidate telling you oh my opponent lies about this and that, and then the contrary ad would go I know that my opponent says I lie, but I don't lie. And then it would go back and forth and they'd be like right after each other. But Jeff makes a great point and that is that the mainstream Republican Party pretty much depending on who you read in the view of some sold out the pro-life position. All of a sudden some of these ads that we were watching in Wisconsin, what we considered to be solidly pro-life candidates were coming out and saying I never opposed a woman's right to have IVF. I always was in favor of a woman being able to have an abortion, at least for the first three months of a pregnancy. For me it was a flashback from the Orrin Hatch days. Orrin Hatch was kind of like a pro-life darling senator from Utah and he came out in favor of embryonic stem cell research and all of a sudden it was just like he was like a cancer to the pro-life movement. He went from being a main speaker for a lot of events to being a non-speaker, and that's kind of. And yet we are more tolerant because I think in the eyes of many, they kind of look at elections as the lesser of two evils, and I have a problem with that approach as well, although you can't deny the fact that sometimes we all think that way to some extent.
Bob Fleischmann:The day of the election or the day before, there was an interesting column by Carl Truman in which he had pointed out that you always because we as Christians are not made to live eternally in this world, that God has designed us to live with him forever in heaven and, as a result, whenever you're taking activity in this world, you always have in mind that, as I try to show love to other people, I'm always looking at the candidate who's going to do the least amount of damage. I was writing a piece this morning and I like to always go back to Matthew 24, 12, which says because of the increase of wickedness or lawlessness, the love of most will go cold. That wasn't a social commentary, that was a prophecy, because as wickedness increases, people will become less loving, which means, as Christians, when you look at who you're going to vote for. You're never going to get the perfect pro-life candidate, you're never going to get the perfect Christian candidate, and I thought Truman's insight was valuable in that it helped me think of it in terms of who's going to do the less damage.
Bob Fleischmann:And it's a judgment call. Somebody else might say, well, I don't agree, I think the other candidate would have done better. Fine, I'm not going to sleep over it, because we both are in agreement that we're still trying to elect someone to rule a world that's going to pass away. Try never to lose perspective on it. And I am greatly alarmed over how society has swallowed hook, line and sinker the idea that giving a woman freedom over her body to the extent that she can kill her offspring is somehow a badge of courage and honor for the forthcoming generations. I mean to deny women the one thing that they are especially gifted and blessed by God to do. To give them the freedom to do that is to treat women like Cattle, really like animals.
Bob Fleischmann:And I find it distressing, and I have never heard a so-called pro-life politician give me any kind of logic to support that thinking positive about this.
Jeff Samelson:This is what we wanted. This was a victory for life and such and I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I think I would, to the extent that I have any ability to caution anybody in terms of politics. It's caution, pro-lifers, against being overly optimistic about what the next four years are going to hold. Part of it is, as Bob mentioned the Republican Party pulled back from being strongly pro-life. They took it out of their party platform and certainly there were some things stated by Trump and Vance during the campaign that suggested they were pulling back from positions that had been normal for Republicans in the past. So there aren't a whole lot of promises there that can be fulfilled because they weren't made, promises there that can be fulfilled because they weren't made. But I can say that what I would hope to see and I'm not going to hold my breath, you know this but what I would hope to see is that, with having the White House having control of the Senate and, as we're recording right now, they're saying that it looks like the Republicans will probably also get control of the House.
Jeff Samelson:Barely what I would love to see would be for the truly pro-life leaders who are left within the Republican power structure there to try to shift the conversation in America from talking about, as Bob was talking about, this woman's right to abortion to switch it to finally talking about the life in the womb.
Jeff Samelson:And that's something that has been largely stopped for generations by not just by the liberal party, the progressives, but also by their allies in the media. They've been kind of gatekeepers as far as this. But if the leaders in the government, the people in power, were to start talking about this in terms of, well, this is about protecting that life in the womb, and this is why we say there's a life in the womb, and here's the scientific evidence and here's the historical reasoning and here's to really put it forth in such a way that it can't be ignored and that the average voter is going to be confronted by it and have to think about that and say, oh yeah, I guess that's the case, that would be a wonderful use of the power that they have just won, but again, I'm not going to be holding my breath that that happens.
Christa Potratz:You know, I mean hearing both of you talk too and seeing kind of what has happened and everything, it just kind of seems like sometimes there is this just with some issues.
Christa Potratz:It seems well, okay, let's try to make that issue go away. And I mean I kind of feel that's what happened with gay marriage too. I mean that really was something that wasn't even really talked about. Because now, you know, I mean it's okay, well, that's the law of the land now and let's move on. And I feel like maybe that is with some of this, okay, we're giving it to the state, let's not really talk about it now on a national level. Let's just try to kind of make it almost like go away type of thing, to maybe that middle ground or just that area of not really taking a stand or just, you know, like let's just try not to be super extreme, right, we can all agree that third trimester abortions are bad Like let's just try to get there and then, you know, and just then maybe make this like not really an issue anymore. That's just maybe my take of how I feel like things are going.
Bob Fleischmann:Oftentimes I felt that this dilemma that we're in, with witnessing this erosion on the value of the role of women in procreation and the value of the unborn child's life, falls at the feet of those of us who know better, and I'll include myself in that camp. There's maybe times where I just haven't been as clear, haven't been as articulate, obviously not as compelling, on the importance of women in their unique status as the vessel that brings life into the world, their unique capacity, and to deny it, I think, shames everybody. And to have failed to emphasize that point adequately over the years, shame on me. I think that's a problem Because Jeff used the 57% statistic out of Florida. Let's just use that. It was a majority, even though it wasn't a successful campaign for the anti-life side, but it was was a majority, even though it wasn't a successful campaign for the anti-life side, but it was still a majority. The fact that a majority of the people who voted didn't have a problem saying that I'm fine living in a state where children are expendable says something bigger about those of us who minister to the minds, I mean every Sunday from the pulpit. We talk about God's Word, we talk about the supremacy of the Word of God. We talk about what God values should be what I value, and how that got miscommunicated down the road is a little bit unfortunate. I personally, I live this wild dream of actually having pro-life people back in the Democratic Party. There was a time and it was in my lifetime there were pro-life people in the Democratic Party and I would like to see that, but that's not going to happen by.
Bob Fleischmann:You know, there's a thing that we do when we teach ethics. There's a story about you take a handful of blind men and then you put them in front of an elephant and they have to describe the elephant based upon the part of the elephant they're touching, and so that you know. You can imagine they touch the tail oh, this beast is wimpy. You touch the trunk it's like a snake. You touch the leg it's like a big giant tree. You touch the body it's like a wall. No matter which side you're dealing with, you're doing it.
Bob Fleischmann:I think we've gotten caught in a culture in which we're touching the trunk or the tail or the leg. We're caught in a culture where we begin to think that this is the dictates of all reality. And if you think about it, how many times have you gone to church and sat in a Bible class and you keep thinking about how unreal the Bible is compared to my reality. Well, that's because you're holding on to the tail and you think you've been able to judge all of existence. And so, as a result, we live in a culture that has so venerated equality that they fail to remember the supremacy a woman has as being a child bearer. They so venerate equality that really, they have embraced this idea that equality is as long as I've got strength, because the unborn child has no voice, there is no equality, and it's all because we're all grabbing the wrong end of the elephant.
Jeff Samelson:Pete Bob, what you were saying about too many of us I'll just speak very broadly there with pastors in the pulpit and leaders not just in society but in the home merges with Krista's point about people, particularly people with power and influence, just wanting kind of like child neglect, that those of us who know better are choosing to just kind of ignore what's going on and they don't want to be nosy or interfere with other things, but in the meantime they're just letting something bad happen that could be prevented and children are dying as a result of it, but they just generally just don't want to be bothered.
Bob Fleischmann:And that's basically the definition of child neglect. I think in the aftermath of the election, where does it put Christians, neglect? I think in the aftermath of the election, where does it put Christians If you're living in a state that has just codified abortion rights within their constitution? There's a couple of things you can do. First of all, you need to permeate the electoral system so that you get into power, get into a position of authority, get into a position of influence and try to reverse that. That's one thing. Another thing that I think is a little bit more tangible, and that is you make abortion the least desirable of all options.
Bob Fleischmann:You look at programs that support the protection and, of course, don't start whining about oh then my tax money is going to be used to support child care for this woman who couldn't control herself. We're talking about human lives here. We're not talking about people looking to just simply abuse the system. We're talking about human life and you've got a responsibility to be willing to suffer for doing good, to be willing to suffer for doing good, and I think all of us could do a little introspection and say to what degree am I willing to suffer for the good of protecting life? And a lot of us, I don't think, think strongly about that and, of course, just remember what the word suffer means. It's not tolerate, it's actually. You experience some sort of pain and uncomfortability for the sake of others. And we at Christian Life Resources, you know, through our pregnancy care centers and through our New Beginnings Home for Mothers ministry hey, trust me, we know all about people who want to use and abuse the system, and we also know a lot about having to put up with a whole lot of inconvenience, a whole lot of discomfort, in order to protect life and to venerate life.
Bob Fleischmann:The thing is is that I sometimes wondered if people just got so—I know we got to the point. Diane was constantly muting the television every time they would start talking about an abortion commercial. But you get to the point where you say I'm just going to vote for this thing so it's not on the ballot anymore. It's a dangerous thing.
Bob Fleischmann:And if we value all life as we should, because Jesus died for all life, what if the referendum had been that we think parents should be able to terminate the lives of their children right up until the time of their school age, because at some point they're going to determine they're just not going to help us out much, so would you have been favored to vote for that? And then tell me this if you think that that's a stupid notion, why in the world did you vote for it to happen to the unborn? It's God who establishes the standard that their life is of equal value. Jesus died for them. The shame is on all of us and we've got to maybe heighten our awareness to what's really going on. So I would say those two things Permeate the electoral system so that you become a positive influence there and, I think, make abortion the least desirable of all options.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, maybe somebody in those states needs to put forward a new amendment to their constitution giving that right to terminate your children up to the school age and maybe, if it got enough attention, we'd actually have the conversation that we need to have.
Bob Fleischmann:Well, and to some degree that's kind of what happened, you know, with that IVF ruling out of Alabama. All of a sudden people are going oh man, there's like a logical connect here we got to. If we follow this logical line, we're in trouble, and of course then it created this panic and all that kind of stuff. The reality is that a sad reality is, I think, a lot of pro-life people, people who call themselves pro-life, just don't want to think too hard about the logical inconsistencies of destroying life before birth. And you've got to think it through.
Christa Potratz:Well, we'll kind of move on and transition. Before we do, though, Bob, it was kind of funny when you were mentioning all of the political ads too, because my kids were a little disappointed that it was over, because we used to play games when we'd go to the mailbox where I would have them guess okay, which ads did we get today?
Christa Potratz:And one kid would say Trump, one would say Dewey Strobel or whatever, and we'd have a lot of fun that way. So they're a little disappointed that we don't have all those ads in their mailbox anymore.
Jeff Samelson:I was very pleased that my path from the mailbox to the house passed by our recycling bin.
Bob Fleischmann:And yet there must be studies that show that that level of saturation must work.
Christa Potratz:Well, moving on, you know we want to talk a little bit about what's going on in Canada with the MAID, that's, medical Aid in Dying Laws. We've talked a little bit about that, this in some of our other episodes too, although I think it has been a little while. And you know, bob, I kind of just want to start with you about some of these laws that are going on in Canada and then we'll just kind of talk about where they're at right now, because there is a little pushback with some of them too. So, bob, can you give us a little synopsis of the medical aid in dying?
Bob Fleischmann:I was kind of plunged into this. I was preaching up in Alberta and the pastor was extremely concerned over the fact that— how long ago, oh boy, that had to have been 10, 12 years ago that the country was moving that direction. Now, already back in the 70s, the country was moving that direction.
Bob Fleischmann:And into the 80s. I remember one of my first presentations on a broader spectrum of ethics than just abortion took place in Ottawa, ontario, and I went down to the university and did some research. It was prior to the Internet. So I went down to Ottawa University and did some reading an article in which they were arguing for the rights of parents to permit terminating their newborn children who were born with some sort of medical problem. And I just remember the argument was I've talked about that before so I'm not going to get into it but the argument was that the child probably wouldn't want to live with that kind of disability, so parents should have the right to authorize them to be terminated. And that's the Groningen Protocol in the Netherlands that we covered in another episode as well.
Bob Fleischmann:But when you've got that kind of thinking, that's kind of like the gold medallion that the pro-life movement uses to talk about slippery slope. So what's happened in Canada is that when they began to legalize assisted suicide just remember, it always starts off sounding not just benign enough but almost appealing, like surely you don't want to suffer, surely you want to have a quality life, surely you want to have dignity in your final days, and so, with that kind of terminology. People get so used to talking about it that they go for it. They approve it, they elect leaders who approve it, and so you had those early stages.
Bob Fleischmann:Then what happened with medical assistance in dying is we're on a slippery slope. You've got to follow the logical chain. Why do I have to be miserable? Why do I have to be in just horrible pain? What if my life just is bad? What if I don't like my life? It's my body. It should be my choice. I should be able to make determinations to allow my life to end and, quite honestly, I should be able to go to a medical professional who's skilled in making it happen. And that's how Canada has become actually the prophetical culmination of what happens when you allow that camel's nose into your tent.
Jeff Samelson:Yeah, one of the interesting things about the case in Canada is that it started their Supreme Court I'm not sure if it's called Supreme Court, but it has that function basically said that Canadian law needed to be changed to allow for, because it's just fundamentally against equality and rights and everything like that, to not allow it. And instead of anybody fighting it, it seems like basically just the government and the parliament and everybody just said, oh yeah, I guess so. And they keep, as everyone predicted it. Just the camel's nose is under the tent. Things keep expanding and you know what were safeguards one day become obstacles, the next to be removed, and one of the more recent things there was temporary joy among those who cared about life because they had expanded things to allow for people who were mentally ill to access this medical assistance in dying.
Jeff Samelson:And then there was somebody who said, no, no, no, no, no, we better stop that. And they put the brakes on and we're like, okay, good, well, basically what it's come down to is like, okay, yeah, now we've studied it and yeah, we're going to go ahead with it, but you know, we're going to put a three-year wait on it. And the three-year wait is it's like I copied it down here March 17th 2027. But this three-year wait is not about well. We need to determine whether or not this is a good idea. No, it's basically. This is just so the relevant government authorities and medical personnel and everything can figure out how they're going to do this. You know, the question of whether it's right or not has I won't even say it's been decided, it's just been shoved aside.
Bob Fleischmann:Yeah, the train's left. Nobody's debating that anymore. It's terrible.
Jeff Samelson:And it's. I mean, this is what they are already seeing now. There's a case that made it somewhat into the news of a woman from Alberta who had some physical medical problems, but nothing that she couldn't live with, but also they were paired with some mental issues that she couldn't live with. But also they were paired with some mental issues, and she couldn't get her doctors at home in Alberta to agree to giving her the medical assistance in dying. So she went to British Columbia and she found a doctor who was very amenable to this to agree to it. It got temporarily stopped, partially because they were said that this was not quite the way the legal process is supposed to work, but also because the article kept calling him.
Jeff Samelson:Her partner I don't know if it's actually her husband or not was objecting to it and saying she doesn't really know what she's asking for. She's got mental issues. She shouldn't be doing this, but it was a natural progression. And there are other cases of people who are going for this. They've got nothing really wrong with them. They just mentally have this psychological error in their thinking that says I would be better off dead and it's really hard in a culture like that to be able to say no, no, you wouldn't be better off dead, you wouldn't be better off dead.
Bob Fleischmann:You know, when Jeff was describing how the high court in Canada had kind of come to its conclusion, you have to realize that this is the natural not culmination, because I think it's a natural progression of progressive thinking. You know, when we go back to what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, with the elections we can get all tied up in talking Trump or Harris or Biden or whoever. There should be an alarm for everyone, even non-Christians, about progressive thinking, because this is how progressive thinking works. It's this idea that it was fine in the old days that we didn't allow abortion. I mean, how many times didn't you hear that in commercials? Or in Wisconsin? Oh, he supports the 1849 law like only the old decrepit people would support that law.
Bob Fleischmann:Progressivism is always this idea that you have to get better, you have to look at things better, you have to get more with it with the times. And, of course, if Charles Darwin probably nailed anything about human nature and that is this idea of survival of the fittest. And if you've got survival of the fittest, that means at some point we're better off with these people dead anyways, you know, if they're not mentally well, if they're not physically well, all they're going to do is drag down our resources. See, that's progressive thinking taking to its next level. When you're more of an originalist thinker, you're saying there are just fundamental standards. And in the United States we try to say you know, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness which we can debate in another time you know. But even if you're saying those are the standards, then you stick with it.
Christa Potratz:Well, real quick too, before we close up. What just is maybe the takeaway for Christians specifically, maybe Americans too, in looking at some of these things that are happening in Canada.
Jeff Samelson:Just to remember that Canada is our closest cultural cousin. They're not just neighbors but you but we've got so much alike. I mean, there are all sorts of jokes about what's the 51st state, canada, and things like that, that there aren't as many obstacles in the way as most of us would like to think in terms of something like this happening, and there are individual states in the union that have, you know, that are definitely on the same path, that Canada is just not quite as far along. And so these are very real things and you know, fortunately with Canada, everything's in English. We can read what's going on in there, up there in their legal system and such. It's not something you know. Far away across an ocean we can access this and we should be alarmed by it, not in this sense of pointing fingers and saying, oh, those nasty Canadians, but in saying, well, what about us? You know what is stopping that from happening here, and what can I and the people I support and the people I work with do to keep this from happening?
Bob Fleischmann:Just remember that we can teach people how to leverage the system, leverage the political system, leverage the electorate to affect change. But what really needs to occur in Canada and in the United States is a change of heart, and that involves more than just educating them. It involves enlightening them, and we have the tool to do that. Our pastors in Canada, I know, are wringing their hands over the challenge that's ahead of them, but it's the ministry of God's Word. That's how you change hearts.
Christa Potratz:Well, thank you both for the discussion today, and just to let everyone know that we will have information linked in our show notes, too, with the topics that we have discussed today, and if you have any questions on any of these, you can always reach us at lifechallengesus. We look forward to having you back next time. Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska:Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life Challenges podcast from Christian Life Resources. Please consider subscribing to this podcast, giving us a review wherever you access it and sharing it with friends. We're sure you have questions on today's topic or other life issues. Our goal is to help you through these tough topics and we want you to know we're here to help. You can submit your questions, as well as comments or suggestions for future episodes, at lifechallengesus or email us at podcast at christianliferesourcescom. In addition to the podcasts, we include other valuable information at lifechallengesus, so be sure to check it out. For more about our parent organization, please visit christianliferesourcescom. May God give you wisdom, love, strength and peace in Christ for every life challenge.
