Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Danielle Cobo: Are you experiencing change in your organization? Do you want the tools to help you stay relevant in the future? In this episode, we hear insights from Jason Pfeiffer, editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine. Through his experiences in organizational restructuring and acquisition, Jason discusses how to develop the grit to prepare for the future, new skills to stay relevant and influence teams to work towards a common goal.

Danielle Cobo: Jason, I'm really excited to have you on as a guest. You recently wrote a book Build for Tomorrow, and will you share with our listeners what made you wanna pursue a career in your field? 

Jason Feifer: Well, you know, it's a funny question because my field feels undefined right now. I had spent the majority of my career in media.

And the reason I wanted to do that was because I loved writing, and at the very beginning of that journey as a high schooler who just discovered that he liked writing. I wasn't sure what kind of writing I wanted to do. I tried a little of everything from fiction to screenwriting to whatever, and what I discovered was that the only thing I was really good at was going out and talking to people and then reporting back what they had to say.

And that is a superpower because it allows you, To meet. This is what I love to say. In my early days, I, I said, I realized that journalism allows you to meet people who you wouldn't normally meet and talk about things you wouldn't normally talk about. And that was incredible. And that launched a career in what became national magazines.

But now I really think of myself as not being a media person so much as being a story tell. And I use that storytelling ability to help others, particularly in the realm of careers and business and goal setting. And so now I think of myself as a kind of rounded entrepreneur. I make media, I consult with businesses, I help startups.

I do a little of everything. And that is now what I'm happy at. my ideal day is a day that does not look like y. An 

Danielle Cobo: incredible journey. That's what led you into where you're at today. Now, in your book, you talk about building for tomorrow, and you talk about the future of what business is going to look like.

Mm-hmm. So in the future, what are some of the top skills that you believe employees can be developing for the future? 

Jason Feifer: Well first, let's all agree that we have no idea how to predict the future at all. So anybody who tells you what the future is gonna be is totally wrong. I find conversations about what the future is gonna be to be totally boring because nobody knows.

So like why even bother? But I think that you can look at what's happening now and say, here's how I can put myself into a position of relevance tomorrow. The best thing that we can do, I think, is to be incredibly. Of how things are changing around us to be pushing ourselves to develop new skills, to be interested in, and engaging in new technologies, in new ways of communicating, in new ways of doing our jobs.

I meet people who are thrilled to say, you know, This AI stuff, it's pretty crazy and scary, but I also know it's gonna impact my business. So I'm gonna figure out what that looks like right now and start to utilize it as a tool. And then I see other people who say, you know what? This is awful. We need to just figure out a way to regulate it out of existence, because I'm gonna keep doing things exactly the way that I've been doing, and I just, I know which one of those two kinds of people is gonna win.

So it's not like you can predict the future, but can be open to that. Things are going to constantly change. And then build that into the way that you operate today. That's the only way to do it, is to create flexibility in how you operate instead of trying to be protecting what you used to do.

Danielle Cobo: One of the biggest challenges I've seen with an organization, as you've talked about, is that resistance to change, and when resistance happens in change, I find that those individual. Get stuck. They don't have the same progression as individuals who embrace change, embrace technology and look at how can technology help us in the future.

I've been using artificial intelligence for the past year and I found it to be extremely valuable in efficiency, productivity. It's prompting ideas for writing and content creation. So I agree with you. I think this is a technology that we can embrace. See how it's gonna support us in the future of business.

Jason Feifer: yeah, that's right. And that's excellent to be so mindful of that. This is an opportunity. Every moment of disruption is an opportunity, and I understand that it doesn't always feel like that. So three questions you can ask yourself about any new thing is simply number one, what's the new thing?

Number two, what new habits or skills are we learning as a result? And then number three, how can we put that to good use? I understand that things are disruptive. I understand that things are scary and uh, look, I don't like being disrupted either. And that's not to say. There isn't going to be loss and feelings of being lost along the way, but let's also be mindful that the thing that we are programmed to do as human beings is to avoid loss.

There is decades of psychological research confirming loss aversion theory that we protect against loss more than we naturally seek gain. Protecting against loss becomes more valuable to us. And if we understand that that's our instinct, then we can try to counterprogram ourselves to recognize that always protecting against loss isn't exactly how we grow.

So let's figure out how to grow. It's not always gonna be easy. It's not gonna be simple. It's not gonna be perfect. Nothing is perfect. Asking if something is perfect is a complete waste of our time. Instead, what we need to do is ask, is our new problem better than our old problem? And when you start to filter things through that you recognize the problems are actually the way to track 

Danielle Cobo: progress.

What are some of the strategies that maybe you might share with some of our listeners on how we can develop this growth mindset? How we can embrace change for the future, as we look at the possible changes that might occur and coming into where we're at. I think that it 

Jason Feifer: starts by drilling down into what your actual core mission is.

You know, oftentimes people anchor their identities to the. Tasks that they do every day, or the role that they occupy or the thing that they make or something like that. And I, you know, that's all fine and natural, but the problem is that if any of that changes and if is the wrong word, when any of that changes, then you are going to feel totally lost because it's not just a change to your work, it's a change to your identity.

So how do we drill down and understand the value that we have? Separate from the thing that we do day. I, I encourage people to come up with this mission statement for themselves. A short sentence as short as possible, starts with I, every word is carefully selected because it is not anchored to something that's easily changeable.

So for me, for example, it is, I tell stories in my own voice. It is not. I'm a magazine editor because if I am a magazine editor, well, look, I don't own Entrepreneur magazine, somebody else owns an entrepreneur magazine. I'm just an employee of Entrepreneur Magazine and hopefully a valuable employee, but that doesn't stop me from getting fired at any time.

There's literally nothing stopping that from happening. So at some point, My boss could call me and say, thank you for your service, and peace out. And if my identity is I'm a magazine editor, then I'm one phone call away from losing my identity. That's a terrible place to be. So how do we instead separate ourselves?

I tell stories in my own voice, can't take stories away from me. And once we all do some version of that and we really understand it and we're willing to stand by it, then what we're really doing is we're giving ourselves. The freedom to navigate the world knowing that we have value that is transferrable, and we have something that does not change in times of change, and that by itself allows us to recognize and pursue new opportunities because we're anchored to something.

It's just that we're not anchored to the stuff that kept.

Danielle Cobo: What I'm hearing you say is when we understand what that mission statement is, we're tied to our purpose, not necessarily the job title or the description of our job. I also see having a personal mission statement, as a way of also checking the barometer on integrity of the decisions that you're making.

Mm-hmm. So, mm-hmm. In the corporate leadership programs that I will work with corporations is we will create individual mission statements, just like what you are talking about, and then we go through the core values and we look at any decisions that we're making in the future. Aura, is it always in line with our core values, our mission statement, and that is how we live in integrity and purpose within our.

Jason Feifer: I think that's great because you have to know what you're starting from and you have to know what the point is of what you're doing. And the wonderful thing is that once you figure out the real point of it, you recognize that this thing doesn't get disrupted very easily. I hear entrepreneurs who have these mission statements for themselves or their companies.

I remember talking to the c e O of food stirs a, baking company and. Greg told me that their mission is to bring joy to people with upgraded sweet baked goods. Bring joy to people, not sell baking mixes, right? Selling baking mixes is easily changed, but bring joy to people. I can't think of.

Anything that would happen in the world that would eliminate the desire for joy and also that would eliminate the desire for sweet things. So that's a pretty good way of understanding what it is that you do, such that when change comes, you feel oriented towards the ultimate goal that you can still always achieve.

Danielle Cobo: As somebody who has deep, sweet tooth. Yes. Mm-hmm. It sounds like that breaky would be delivering joy through their products, and that is such a unique mission statement that speaks to the heart of why somebody might want to purchase a particular item. It's not about selling a product, it's what is the outcome when somebody enjoys that baked good, and it brings them, the feeling that it brings to them.

That's right. You work with a lot of organizations and particularly with leaders within the organizations, what do you see as some of the greatest challenges leaders might face today? 

Jason Feifer: Well, so one of the greatest challenges, and I hear this all the time, I'm sure you do too, is that even if a leader is bought in on the value of change, they can't exactly figure out how to get their team to go along with them.

that's, one of the number one questions that people ask me after I give a talk about change, as they say. All right, well, look, I, I understand this, but how do I get my team to come along? And my first piece of advice to them is, You have to remember that any change that you were introducing to your team, but you've had the ability, you've had the right.

You've had The comfort of spending time with that change and with understanding it and with digesting it and absorbing it, and now you're introducing it to other people and you're expecting them to move very fast without going through the same process that you literally just went through yourself.

So let's give people some time and let's give them some grace and help them recognize that this is gonna be valuable and. Help them, very importantly, see their role in it. Because the number one thing that we're all gonna think about whenever there's some kind of change is, do I retain my value and what is my value?

And I can understand how this new thing is basically like the old thing, but somehow better and that my. Role and responsibility and value is similar to what it used to be, but better now I'm along the journey with you. But if I feel like I'm now standing on a shifting ground that I might fall off of, well, you better believe that my instinct is gonna be to hold onto what came before and to not be open to this.

So we need to give people time and we need to help them understand how they play a role in what comes. 

Danielle Cobo: Excellent points, Jason. I think about the times that I worked for an organization and we went through several acquisitions. We went through several restructuring within the organization, and there's two pivotal times that I remember where at one point we were restructuring the territory sizes.

we were laying some people off and the sales representatives had no idea until the. Moment when we made the changes and there was a lot of resistance to it. Mm-hmm. And on the other side, there was another time where we were making some adjustments to the territories and I shared that information with the team.

I didn't necessarily have all the answers to what the changes were gonna be, but it also involved him in the process of saying, Hey, if we were to move the territory to X, Y, Z cities, How do you feel like that would align with your business? Do you think it would be helpful, do you think It wouldn't be helpful, but having them part of the decisions and the process.

Not to say that you are going to make your decision solely on that, or even if you're going to follow in that direction, but making them part of the process is essential towards having everyone work towards the common. 

Jason Feifer: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I love the idea of bringing people into the process.

So you're not delivering a final message here, but instead you're saying, look, here's where we need to get to, and I'd really love your help in getting us there, because that enables people to be valuable to say, okay, great. I'm a part of this, which means that I can shape something for the better. I can also figure out where I belong in it, which is incredibly valuable.

Let's not forget. That people are not there for charity. People are there to benefit themselves, and that's great because if they can benefit themselves and benefit the organization as a whole at the same time, then everybody wins. But we cannot just discard people's natural instincts for self-preservation.

We have to use that, and you can, but it just requires letting them. 

Danielle Cobo: Absolutely having them part of that process. And I also liked how you talk about being patient and understanding where, meeting them, where they are at as well. Because you're a hundred percent right. When we're in leadership roles, we are exposed to some of the decisions that are being made far in advance to what our team is being exposed to.

And so it is the same challenges that you were speaking to, which is. Sometimes leaders will expect them to progress quicker in the emotions, but that's because the leaders already experienced them. This is the first time that their employees are hearing the news. So it's approaching it in an empathetic, vulnerable way and share in understanding where their emotions are at and how you can best support them through that 

Jason Feifer: change.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I have a chapter in my book, it. Bridge of familiarity or build the bridge of familiarity or something. I don't know. You can never remember exactly the language you used for naming your chapters. But, the bridge of familiarity is a concept that I have, which is to remember that when you introduce something new to people, they're not happy about that because they don't like new things.

People don't like new things. What people like are better versions of old things. The big mistake that a leader that an innovator makes is that they are so familiar with the value of the thing that they are championing, that they forget that other people don't understand it at all. And then what they do is they try to sell it to people.

They try to start with where they are and then sell it to other people. But that does not work. What you need to do is turn it around. You need to start with the people who you're trying to. reach Understand their needs, understand their comforts, understand their language, what are they familiar with, and then build a bridge of familiarity Build a bridge from them to you start with them, and this is a leadership tactic, but it's also, frankly like a marketing tactic. You can see it play out all the time where good marketing starts with what the consumer is familiar with and then speaks to that in a way that brings them along to a new idea.

It's the difference between, I love this example of, I interviewed this guy who once put. A product called Chicken Chips. wild Brands is the company, w i l d E and, w Chicken Chips. it is, uh, like Imagine potato chips, like a snack, but made out of chicken. the idea is that it's healthy protein based.

but, people liked the product, but they didn't buy it. And he couldn't figure out why. Then he started watching people engage with the packaging, and as soon as they read chicken chips, they made a face because it sounds disgusting. And so then he took it back. he did a lot of surveying on his audience, which he hadn't done before, and he came up with new language.

That language is protein chips, so now the bag very prominently says protein chips, which of course is something that's familiar to people. Now you're starting with what they know. I, maybe somebody already drinks protein shakes and has protein bars and protein, everything. And now you've entered a conversation that already exists, protein.

And then from there, you can start to build that bridge of familiarity. Okay, you like protein, here's why this protein is better. Here's the source of this protein. Here's why it's, it's healthier and more wholesome than the other protein products that you have. Now you're bringing them along. That is how he transformed his.

Yes, 

Danielle Cobo: protein chips definitely sounds a lot more appetizing than chicken chips. Yeah, definitely. Well, okay, so let's talk a little bit before we wrap up today's episode. Um,are seeing a shift in middle management and there's a shift in some of these generations that are going into middle management.

If someone wants to become a leader, a manager, how can they best prepare for the future as 

Jason Feifer: a. Well, I think that they need to understand what drives success and then how to drive those teams towards success. I mean,I think what creates great leaders is, obviously it's a track record of success, but it's also people feeling very good about their leadership and.

People around them, people above them looking at that team and saying, you know what? That team is better because this leader is there, and if this leader can do it with that smaller team, then they can do it with this bigger team too. So how do you do that? Well, look, I think that it, starts by understanding what drives people and what kind of leader very intentionally you want to be.

And then making sure that you're setting the expectations for everybody, that you're there for them, and you're gonna deliver it in this way. And I'll just tell you, for me, for example, it took me a long time to understand that as a leader, and I'll be honest, I never aspired to really be a leader, but I am in this role as editor-in-chief, at least that my leadership style required.

Me building a team that worked within it, to be intentional about hiring and to be intentional about structure of the team and of the workflow. And you can't just grab people at random and throw them together and not communicate with them and expect success. You need to create coherence from start to finish.

We have a team at Entrepreneur Magazine that is really driven by creative freedom. That's how I define the team, and that's how I define the leadership style. I am not a micromanager. I tell people at the very start, you're not gonna hear from. Probably nearly as much as you hear from other bosses.

Frankly, my belief is that everyone hates to hear from their boss. And so I don't wanna bother people. I'd rather them focus on the work than focus on like, they gotta talk to me at 3:00 PM So, I want creative freedom. I want people who are self-starters. I want people who are empowered to make decisions.

I want people who are willing to take risks and they know that I'm gonna applaud the risk taking all by itself, whether or not the outcome is exactly what we're looking for. And I'm clear about that from day one. And as a result, what we end up with is a team of people who all think and operate in a way that can lead everybody to success and where expectations are met and expected.

And I think that as a leader, If you wanna prepare to succeed in the future, you need to gain incredible clarity about what it is that you bring as a leader. What kind of leader are you? What are the things that create success? In your team and how are you contributing to that? And then making sure that when you have control over who's on your team, that you're doing it with intentionality so that you're not just setting yourself up for success, you're setting literally everyone up for success because you're creating a coherence, you're building a structure.

That's, to me, the way to do it. I mean, being a leader was never something I aspired to be. Once I was in this role, and I understand that I had to succeed in this role, the thing that made the most sense to me was to make sure that this wasn't all on me. That this was on everybody, and that meant that we had to create a team that understands each other.

Well 

Danielle Cobo: said, well said. I, overarching message that I'm hearing you say throughout this episode is it's about understanding. Each individual person, what motivates them? What are their core values? What inspires them? What are their strengths? Meeting them where they're at. And if we hired the right people, the biggest disservice that we could do is micromanage that person.

Yeah. Because if we hired them for their strengths, then by micromanaging them. It can feel very deflating and they can feel undervalued. So the best thing we could do is to hire the right people, be clear and concise what the expectations are, understand where they're at, how we can best support them. And also what I'm hearing from you is give them the creative freedom to use their strengths and the role that they're in.

Jason Feifer: Yes, that's exactly right. You nailed it. I. Think that, oh, so first of all, when you look at surveys, what you'll find over and over again is that people, one of the leading reasons people leave their jobs is because they felt undervalued. they say over and over and over again, and so, well, how do you value them?

One of the first things that you can do is you can empower them and then you can leave them alone to do it. I cannot stand. Micromanaging. It drives me absolutely insane. because Why am I here? If you think that you can do it better? what's my purpose here? nobody wants to just carry the ball.

Nobody wants to just execute on something that somebody else came up with. I remember, I mean like the simplest thing in the world, cuz it's so clear and Visual So I've worked at magazines where the editor-in-chief, when I was the editor in chief, I was just a lower level editor where the editor-in-chief would have like a meeting bringing a whole bunch of people and look at every photo from a photo shoot and have everybody.

Which photos to use in the magazine? That's ridiculous. We have a photo director at Entrepreneur Magazine. Her name is Judith. She's incredible. She picks the photos, Judith, show me which photos we're gonna use. and every blue moon I see something and I say, you know, I wonder do we have any other options?

Because maybe that one is a little too something or other. And then she shows me other options. And I'm there basically as a safety check. Rather than to make every decision for her because she knows what she's doing. She's a professional, she's way better at her arena than I am, so why on earth would I impose myself upon her?

That doesn't make any sense. if, if I wanted to be the photo director, then I would get rid of Judith, but I don't wanna be the photo director. I want Judith to be the photo director. So let's empower people to make the decisions that they know how. 

Danielle Cobo: That is the perfect message to end on for our episode today.

Thank you so much, Jason for joining our podcast. I will be assure to include the link to your book. For those of you who that are listening, Jason's book is Build for Tomorrow, and as you can hear from our episode today, his advice and how to prepare for the future is something to read about in his book.

So thank you so much, Jason for. 

Jason Feifer: Oh hey, thanks. I really appreciate it. And hey, you're listening to podcasts, which you are cuz you're hearing me right now, I have one called Help Wanted, which you can find anywhere you find podcasts. me and my friend Nicole Lapin, who's a bestselling money expert, we bring listeners on to talk through their work challenges and then we get them to a better place.

So anyway, you can find it, it's help Wanted, I'll 

Danielle Cobo: be sure to include the link in the show notes as well so that our listeners can easily find it. So thank you so 

Jason Feifer: much. Awesome. Thank you.