“The Dark Dirty World of Sugar”: An interview with Joyce Laszloffy

In this episode of the Defiant Health podcast, I interview Joyce Laszloffy who personally struggled with a crippling sugar addiction and overweight for many years. She experienced extreme ups and downs, trying to overcome the powerful pull that sugary foods can have on us. She shares how, for years, she managed to hide her addiction from her family and friends, often feeling powerless and humiliated, dealing with health issues including high blood pressure, pre-diabetes, fatty liver, depression and mood swings, until she found the key to finally kicking the habit. She has since taken her ideas to others through her courses, helping people banish sugars in all its forms from their lives with often spectacular results. 

Joyce delves into her belief that the problem often lies not within individuals but within the food system itself. Drawing from her journey of becoming vegetarian and vegan, she explains the importance of aligning dietary decisions with personal beliefs and identity. By understanding the psychology and science behind addiction, Joyce outlines why conventional methods such as willpower and restriction frequently fall short. She encourages listeners, particularly women, to arm themselves with knowledge and approach quitting sugar in a holistic, value-driven way to reclaim their health and happiness.

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Transcript

William Davis, MD: 0:06

In this episode of the Defiant Health Podcast, I interview Joyce Laszloffy, who personally struggled with a crippling sugar addiction and being overweight. For many years, she experienced extreme ups and downs, trying to overcome the powerful pull that sugary foods can have on us. Trying to overcome the powerful pull that sugary foods can have on us, she shares how, for years, she managed to hide her addiction from her family and friends, often feeling powerless and humiliated, dealing with health issues including high blood pressure, pre-diabetes, fatty liver, depression and mood swings, until she found the key to finally kicking the habit. She has since taken her ideas to others through her courses, helping people banish sugar in all its forms from their lives, with often spectacular results.

William Davis, MD: 0:53

And later in the podcast, let's talk about Defiant Health's sponsors Paleo Valley, our preferred provider for many excellent organic and grass-fed food products, and BiotiQuest, my number one choice for probiotics that are scientifically formulated, unlike most of the other commercial probiotic products available today. Well welcome, joyce. Thank you for taking this invitation. I'd like to hear more about your approach, your unique approach to reducing or eliminating sources of sugar. But first of all, how did you go down this path in the first place?

Joyce Laszloffy: 1:29

Yeah, great question. Can I start at the beginning, maybe?

William Davis, MD: 1:34

Please do.

Joyce Laszloffy: 1:35

You know anyone who's listening, just so they know what my background is. My whole life, as far back as I can remember, dr Davis, I was addicted to sugar. So as a kid, sugar was always on my mind. I have those thoughts as a little kid, all my childhood and adult memories they revolve around sugar. You know, when I think of my trips to Disneyland, I don't think of Space Mountain, like most kids might. My first thought that I remember is like the chocolate fudge and the root beer candy sticks that I would buy on Main Street in the candy shop. My family cruise in seventh grade you know that was me frequenting the gift shop, maybe three, four times for three musketeer bars. These are my fun, exciting memories. Or all those dessert bars you know that they've got the buffets every hour, on the hour, repeatedly. You know all my holidays every time I think about a holiday Valentine's Day, hanukkah, christmas, Halloween they're all revolve around sugar and the candy and the desserts that I would eat. And then in my late teens, as I would get through breakups, you know, have a stressful moment at school or being a teenager, hormones setting in I would deal with it with massive sugar binges. I would go to the store I could easily buy like a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, a pound of M&M bags, bag of cookies eat it all in one night in a serving. It was nothing for me. I could just never have enough sugar and I used to say, up until I kicked sugar, that sugar was my best friend and I hear this all the time from women in my program, you know, and I thought I believe that it comforted me. And the thought of giving it up, like what you want me to get rid of this, it scared the hell out of me.

Joyce Laszloffy: 3:31

Most of my life I was physically and mentally unhealthy. At my heaviest I was 67 pounds overweight, so I weighed about 186 pounds. I weighed about 186 pounds For me, you know I'm small framed, I'm 5'3", you know, so that's a lot of weight on a little person. I struggled for years with my weight, with high blood pressure, fatty liver. I was diagnosed with a high A1C I mean all the markers stomach issues, which relates so much to the gut microbiome, chronic, you know, stomach issues, chronic yeast and sinus infections. I was constantly going to the doctor in my 20s for that. I mean two, three a year bouts of that and really lots of depression and anxiety. My moods were constantly a roller coaster, so I was very, very manic and it was really all due to the poor food choices that I made daily. And the main culprit for me was sugar, you know. And I used to eat, you know, healthier during the day and I would restrict my calories. That was kind of healthier for me. But then I would binge at night Because, you know, I went ahead. By the end of the day I had used up all of my willpower, you know, and I was just looking for a way to soothe myself for whatever uncomfortable feeling that I was feeling or stress I was having in that moment, and I used sugar to avoid the numb and to numb my pain and just avoid that discomfort that I would have.

Joyce Laszloffy: 5:04

As I said, I could easily, you know, into my adulthood, into my forties, eat, you know, one to two pints of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I loved the Nestle Toll House cookie dough. Oh, I would buy like a roll of that and eat that in one evening, one serving. And I used to hide my addiction. I was very ashamed by it, you know. I would tell my husband oh, I got to go out to the store. I forgot something at nighttime, you know, something for our son's lunch, you know, and it was just an excuse to go to the store because I was craving, I was jonesing something sweet and there was nothing in the house and I would buy like a bag of cookies and I would sit in the parking lot, you know, at nighttime, in the dark, and this is common. This isn't one episode, this was routine for me Stuff my face there in the darkness, solitude, in my car, go back out, throw the wrappers, you know, out in front of the stores there would be no evidence that I'd eaten that and drive home.

Joyce Laszloffy: 6:03

I was on four different medications at one time and I wasn't even 40 years old yet Now I'm 54. I was on five, tried five different antidepressants. None of them worked and I was actually told by doctors a nephrologist actually said this to me you're just going to have to face the facts. You are going to have to be on a lot more medications as you continue to get older. That's just what happens as we age.

Joyce Laszloffy: 6:31

But I'll tell you what the worst part for me, dr Davis, was actually the part allowing sugar to control my life was the constant, daily berating of myself that went on with the sugar and the eating this. You know that inner voice inside you that tells you, oh, you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you're not talented enough. Choice. You know you have no willpower and I would say cruel things to myself, like you, fat loser. I'd look in the mirror and I'd say that to myself and I taught this way to myself internally, daily. This was a constant thing. That mental abuse that inflicted on myself. That was by far the worst and what I consider the most detrimental and actually what stops so many women that I work with being able to make positive changes in their lives. For anyone that's trapped in something. So being trapped in that vicious cycle is tough.

Joyce Laszloffy: 7:31

But instead of giving up, you know I went and I dived deep and after 17 years of doing my own research, just like you advocating your book Undoctored, you know, I started diving into those stacks and reading books by leading experts like yourself in the field of functional medicine and sugar and neuroscience, brain chemistry, the gut, you know so important and I gathered all the best tips and advice from these experts in the field on addiction, on health, and I really uncovered what I feel is the dark, dirty world of sugar. You know, and, most importantly, I discovered the secret to kicking sugar that I really don't think anybody talks about, which has allowed me to break free from my sugar addiction once and for all me to break free from my sugar addiction once and for all. So I went from a lifelong sugar addict to never craving the sweet stuff again. And then I started to share my journey, you know and just telling, because at first I was kind of quiet about it and then I would be at a party and just the birthday cake will be passing around or you'd be standing at the dessert table and other people would be partaking it and they'd be noticing that I wasn't eating it and they'd be like what's going on? Why aren't you eating something? And I would share my story that I just shared with you. And they were like oh my gosh, you know that's me.

Joyce Laszloffy: 8:56

And I discovered I wasn't alone. And you know my whole life. I thought that I was broken. You know that there was just me. I had no willpower, there was something wrong with me, I had no self-control.

Joyce Laszloffy: 9:08

But the more times that I shared this story with others, I heard back from women sharing the exact same story and I realized I wasn't broken. You know, these women aren't broken. Our food system is broken. That's what's here and what's wrong and that sent me on the mission to found healthy education and write I Kick Sugar and then create the I Kick Sugar Masterclass Program where I lay out the exact same steps. It's super simple, it's not rocket science. Same steps and revelations that I used to kick sugar. I can say now wow, this past September was eight years for me and soon, just word got out. It was crazy. The internet, you know. And now we've got over 18,000 women from around the world, you know, who have joined and are reclaiming their health and happiness. So to anyone listening, you know, to this podcast right now, I just want them to get that it is possible, no matter where they are, to kick sugar, absolutely yeah.

William Davis, MD: 10:11

So, joyce, you came at this. It sounds like through logic and learning, but was there some kind of last straw event that pushed you over and said, well, damn it, I've got to do this. Yeah.

Joyce Laszloffy: 10:22

I don't. You know, we and I see this with my women we sure can tolerate a lot of suffering, or should I say put up with, because our bodies don't tolerate it. You know, the abuse is there and we feel the pain. We just become almost numb to the uncomfortableness of these symptoms that are screaming and these bells and whistles that are going off. My big aha moment that I had, after years and years of trying to, you know oh, okay, I'm going to quit sugar and I would, you know, be off of it for a couple of days and then be right back on it, on off, on off never lasting more than probably a week. What, finally, did it? My aha moment eight years ago was I'm a big journaler and I was journaling and I was talking to myself Joyce, you know, just kick sugar. What are you doing? You can do this, you're strong enough. And I'd be like no, I'm not strong enough. I've tried so many times, I don't know how to. I love it so much. And the big aha for me was when I realized and I told myself you are strong enough. I want you to look at your past behaviors and things you've accomplished in the past, and for me that was that I was plant-based.

Joyce Laszloffy: 11:30

I went vegetarian when I was 22 years old and I did that at the time for ethical reasons, and then my whole family became vegetarian, plant-based, and then I went vegan. I even went off and worked for PETA for a couple of years and got into animal rights. A whole big, long history. There Didn't care about, you know, my health at the time, because you can be a very unhealthy vegan, which I was, you know, still eating lots of sugar, being a vegan. I would drive to McDonald's and I'd be like I'll have a hamburger minus the meat and a fry and a Coca-Cola. You know that's how a lot of us ate. And hey, we weren't, we weren't hurting and harming any animals just ourselves Right.

Joyce Laszloffy: 12:14

So it was a process, this journey, for me, but what I learned was that the reason why it was so easy for me the day that I declared that I don't eat animals, that I am vegetarian, it was a simple thing. I made a decision in that moment. I had enough information, I had gained enough, you know material, to know that this was fit my philosophy, my belief system, my being, who I wanted to stand for and be. And when you put that behind a decision, wow, it makes any decision simple. You cut off all other choices, and I did. I've never looked at a piece of meat or been tempted by anything like that. It means nothing to me. The same way, cigarettes and I pose this to women all the time Do you smoke? A lot of them, don't? Oh, they're grossed out by it. Why? To others, it's truly an addiction to them, but to you it's not. So I show people that in all different areas of their life, they have the power and they hold that. When you connect your identity and a belief system behind something, you can go so much further. And so I saw this with myself and I realized I just need to arm myself now with the power to see why I don't want to eat sugar anymore. What's really so bad about this? To dive deeper into it and to learn the psychology and the science behind it, so that I could break free from it once and for all and make that decision.

Joyce Laszloffy: 13:37

So when women get to the end of my course, they're at the point where which I actually share, because I tell everyone in the program I don't want them to stop eating sugar. You know that's the worst thing you can do. And they're like what are you talking about? You want me to keep eating sugar. I just signed up for this, I kick sugar course and you're telling me to keep eating sugar. Yes, keep eating sugar, absolutely, because you've already tried doing it with willpower, you've tried with restriction and that doesn't work.

Joyce Laszloffy: 14:09

You know, when we deprive ourselves of something, what do we want? We want it more. You tell a little kid don't touch the stove. What do they do? They touch the hot stove. You know. You tell your daughter don't date that guy. She goes behind your back and dates that guy. Don't get into the alcohol cabinet. We want what we can't have.

Joyce Laszloffy: 14:26

So we should know, you know, when we learn this, it's such simple principles that that doesn't work. So what I have, them women learn through the course, and what I learned myself, part of the steps to kicking sugar was that it's a process and you have to build a foundation first, and so that requires you to understand and learn everything about sugar, your body and brain and how it affects your body, the science behind that because there is real science for sure behind all of that as you talk about in all of your books. This isn't make-believe Any addiction. There's two sides of addiction. There's a physical side and then there's a mental side. The problem is that most diets you know fail because all we do is talk about the physical side.

Joyce Laszloffy: 15:16

And that's actually quite easy to overcome, particularly when you start incorporating real whole food. You know you don't just restrict calories, because that doesn't work. What matters is what those calories are made up of. And when you fill that plate up with real whole food, the right foods to feed your gut, microbiome, all those bugs that tell your brain to stop, you know talking to you craving and wanting all of that, then you can quiet the noise down. And then when you work on the mental side, which is not talked about, which is understanding the conditioning that you know our society, that our upbringing, that our family, that big food and big, you know, beverage does specifically to manipulate this food and our minds and connect these emotional attachments to food, when you learn all of that and understand that, then you're building this foundation.

Joyce Laszloffy: 16:11

So when you get to the end of the program, it's not that you can't have sugar, it's not that you shouldn't have sugar, it's not because I told you follow this protocol and don't eat sugar again, it's that you don't want it. You've learned so much about it that you're disgusted by it. I mean, women going through it are like I don't want to eat it anymore, but Joyce keeps, you know, making me go through the program until she gets to the end. So it's kind of like you're building a case, you know like you're in court and you're building a case against sugar so that you never want it and desire it again. And when you can stand in that place, you know of saying it's not that I can, it's not that I shouldn't, I don't eat sugar. When you make that declaration, that is a much more powerful place to stand by to, where, when you are at a party and someone says, you know like, oh, do you want a piece of cake? No, I don't eat sugar. You know it's a belief for you. So much more powerful.

William Davis, MD: 17:06

Have you had to deal with withdrawal phenomena in your audience?

Joyce Laszloffy: 17:10

Yes, absolutely, and that's part of the physical side and that's a part that women get scared about when they think about that. But I remind them you are powerful and you've done this before. You know it's like willpower can get you so far. And those withdrawals, as you know, like headaches or body aches, lethargic feeling, maybe a little nauseous, you might even have a little bit more cravings. All of that is typical with a withdrawal. Not everybody has it. Some do, usually typically last maybe two to three days, maybe it will go two weeks. You can be very, very tired. I encourage everybody to eat lots of real whole food during that time, not to worry about weight loss, just like you discussed with your program and with ladies and gentlemen. Men that'll come off Like not to focus on that right now.

Joyce Laszloffy: 18:02

It's about. When you switch your food and your habits, the weight will come off. So if you have to eat lots of healthy fats, eat lots of healthy fats to keep you satiated. But I remind ladies that you know, the physical side of that addiction is actually easy to overcome and so many have. You know, oh, I want to get in that bikini for the summertime, and you know, and they starve themselves for two weeks and they're going through.

Joyce Laszloffy: 18:27

You know, oh, I want to get in that bikini for the summertime, and you know, and they starve themselves for two weeks and they're going through. You know, withdrawals are shaky and irritable and bitchy at work and they get past it. Or, oh, you know, they want to wear a new dress for a wedding or Lent, you know, if they have like a belief system around religion, and they get through that hard time because of that belief. So we all have conquered that. Get through that hard time because of that belief. So we all have conquered that. And so, again, it's about reframing, like this journey, like why you're kicking sugar, so that you don't see it as that negative but as something positive. Look at that as something positive, that your body is detoxing off of the sugar and you want to go through that, Welcome it. That's again a much more positive place when you reframe that for sure.

William Davis, MD: 19:11

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William Davis, MD: 20:48

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Joyce Laszloffy: 22:11

Well, I'm not going to lie. I mean first, yes, I am a happier, healthier person. Those manic mood swings that occurred so much from my blood glucose levels right going up high, then crashing, then going back down. My husband's like who am I going to get today, dr Jekyll, mr Hyde, you know not knowing very, very moody and manic. That is definitely leveled out. It's been eight years now. I will say, though, that what and what I teach in my course with these ladies? That it is first of all progress, not perfection, and this is a lifelong journey to be healthy. I haven't figured it all out, just like.

Joyce Laszloffy: 22:50

You know you discussed in. You know, after wheat belly it's like, oh, people were having great success. Tell me if I'm mistaken or not. You know they're doing the protocol, they're having the success of cutting out the grains, but then you know there's still what. They're having the success of cutting out the grains, but then you know there's still what. Not everything was a 100%, there's still other issues. And then you dive deeper and, wow, discovered other stuff. You know it's like that. There's other components, and that's what I'm definitely figuring out as well.

Joyce Laszloffy: 23:20

I mean, when I started this journey I wasn't fully aware. I mean, I knew enough. But, as you can probably guess yourself, in eight years how much has been really discovered on the gut microbiome that wasn't talked about even as much eight years ago when I discovered this and kicked sugar and then wrote the course five years ago. I mean, every day now, exponentially, the science is coming out and the research and people are starting to understand it better, and so with that new knowledge and expanse, I'm learning as well. You know that. You know what I tell women, because I've had women on my course who have kicked sugar, they've been sugar free and they're still having issues with their gut. You know, it's like the bloating. I'm not gonna lie, I'm still having it, you know, not to the degree that I did when I was on sugar, but I have learned't know if I'm celiac.

Joyce Laszloffy: 24:12

Years ago, prior to kicking sugar, when I was trying to figure out what was going on with me and I didn't want to accept that it was sugar, I went to a gastroenterologist, got tested. I found out I had two celiac genes and I had a high IGA. And the doctor says you don't have celiac. I'm like, really. So he's like, and you're already gluten free. So just just stick with what. If that's working for you, stick with that. And so I stayed gluten free for two years. I went to go see then shortly after another gastroenterologist because I was also. You find what you're looking for right? I really almost wanted this diagnosis so bad, to be celiac, so I could say that would solve everything. That's the reason why I don't need to be on gluten anymore and I can keep eating sugar and just go on my merry way. And I went to her. She looked at everything, did some more. She's like no, you're definitely celiac, you know you're on the right path.

Joyce Laszloffy: 25:26

So what do I believe? So I stayed very strict, gluten free for two years. Who do you believe I teach my women? You believe your body, listen to your body, it's wise, all it. Just like you say in Undoctored you are your own best doctor, you know your best. So I was stayed on gluten, was still eating sugar felt better, better, but, you know, still had some episodes here or there and finally one day, because I didn't have a reason, a belief behind it, I didn't have enough knowledge to gain in power, like what was going on with gluten, I went back to eating. I had pancakes one morning and boo, you know, from there I had gluten and I didn't have any flare ups.

Joyce Laszloffy: 26:07

So I thought you know what that first doctor must be right. I'm not celiac and I don't know if I am or not, but I do know that gluten doesn't work for my stomach because through the years, I mean, I eat very small amounts. And then I'll say why are you having a flare up? Why is your stomach, you know, bloated? Why do you not feel good? And I, you know, and then I'm like I'm eating so healthy. Well, maybe it wasn't so healthy. Maybe those gluten-free wraps that you had, you know, made with rice flour or one of the other ingredients, maybe it's not.

Joyce Laszloffy: 26:43

Maybe you need to start listening to Dr Davis, you know, and so it's a process is what I try and tell all my women. I don't want to overwhelm them with all of this, because then you're just paralyzed and you don't move anywhere. But what I do encourage and I say at the very beginning, which is why, like my program, instant access, lifetime access. It's like my coaching goes beyond, you know, the eight weeks, because once you've declared your day and you're sugar free, you don't just, don't leave, don't quit and say goodbye. It's almost like alcohol's anonymous.

Joyce Laszloffy: 27:18

You need that support you. You need a positive community, people just to talk about the conversation and learn what the latest thing is, Learn the latest science, Understand more because the field is constantly growing and expanding and to keep moving on. Like you know, I'm going to start getting into making your yogurts now. I didn't do that eight years ago or these eight years, so I'm just going to keep getting healthier and healthier. You know it took me 50 or 40 some years to get to this place. It's going to take me another 40 to get, to continue on with this place.

William Davis, MD: 27:50

So yeah, hopefully that answered the question. How has this gone over with the rest of the family?

Joyce Laszloffy: 27:57

Oh they, they love it. I mean. Well, first of all, my parents were, were big advocates and full supporters they supported. I have an older sister, two years older, who's actually type one diabetic, ironically, and she was diagnosed in her early twenties, like 21 years old. And then my uncle on my mom's side was also type one diabetic. So diabetes runs in our family and so I need to be aware of that too, that I do believe that I'm very gluten sensitive, that I am, you know, carb sensitive. You know it doesn't have to be a candy wrapper, it could just be, you know, a tortilla. That's going to throw me off and raise my glucose levels for sure.

Joyce Laszloffy: 28:44

Again, I want women to start at a starting point, so it's not like you wipe everything out right away. What I do work on in the program is we're focusing on you know there's a hard line with. I want to teach them to stay away from ultra processed sugars, you know, like high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners like sucralose that are in. You know, like high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners like sucralose that are in. You know, diet sodas and diet candies. Aspartame, I mean that, we know, without doubt affects our gut microbiome and it is unhealthy and that's what's being pumped into 80% of supermarket shelf products these days.

Joyce Laszloffy: 29:23

You know all this ultra processed foods stay away with. You can't read the label and you can't read the ingredient. I mean, you know all this ultra processed foods stay away with. You can't read the label and you can't read the ingredient. I mean you shouldn't be putting it in your body, you know? Make it simple. I don't know what to eat. It's so confusing. Six ingredients or less, and if you can pronounce it, great. If you can't, that's a clear indicator. Or even better no label.

William Davis, MD: 29:42

Shop the perimeter you know anything that?

Joyce Laszloffy: 29:44

has a label is a warning sign right there. It's like eat real whole food. I don't prescribe a particular diet because, as I shared, I'm plant based, but I have tons of carnivores and people who eat meat and I explain we'll pick out the healthier meats. You know, look for grass fed, look for, you know, farm raised. It's like don't buy. You know, something that's been on the feed lot that's pumped with antibiotics and growth hormones. It's like go spend a little bit more money and have something healthier. And I do that because you know it's, it's real whole food. So and everybody is different and I want everyone to get that, it's about cutting out those ultra processed sugars. And just from women, so many women think that soda was okay.

Joyce Laszloffy: 30:33

I mean it's a big aha moment. You don't have to do a lot to get a lot of results and big results. And it's those baby steps. Because if I had started right now, like if you would introduce me on day one, make the yogurt, take this test, do this, do that, cut out the glue and I'd be like, ah, you know, my life's falling apart and so it's a slow and gradual process that even I'm on my husband's super, on board my son, I mean both of them are clear examples how I believe, just from reading and understanding about the gut microbiome, that they have good bugs. I mean they've got some really good bugs.

Joyce Laszloffy: 31:13

I was not so blessed or I destroyed my bugs. Perhaps I also was on a lot more antibiotics than my husband or my son ever were. You know, growing up I was on so many and so clearly that's an integer they didn't have the cravings that I have, you know, and I talked about this in my course, like that, I loved Halloween and I was always like, oh my gosh. You know, when I was a kid it was a pillowcase that I would fill up and I would finish that pillowcase in like two, three days and hide it in my room. You don't touch that pillowcase, that's mine. My grandpa wants a piece of candy. No, grandpa, you're not getting any.

Joyce Laszloffy: 31:50

You know, then, when my son, I had my son he's 18 now when he was little, we take him trick-or-treating. I mean, the kid's still in his cart. He can't even eat candy. You know, he's less than a year old and I'm pushing around, who do you think's eating the candy? Me, you know. And then he's finally five years old and he doesn't even want to go trick-or-treating. And he's like, he's like I don't really like trick-or-treating. It's like it's a dumb holiday. You know, when he's never been into Halloween, he didn't want to dress up, he didn't want to go.

Joyce Laszloffy: 32:19

When I did make him go, prior to that, it's like we'd go to the store I'm like to pick out. You know what he's going to put the candy in, and he'd pick a little dinky plastic pumpkin. I'd be like that's how much candy can we get in that? You know it's like. So there's. I teach too that there is sugar sensitivity. I firmly do believe that Kathleen DeMoss from Potatoes, not Prozac, she really introduced me to that concept and seeing that, and I think that almost there's a spectrum, I don't use that as an excuse, though, or to to play this victim role, because we can, if so much of that revolves around our gut microbiome right that spectrum, so we could turn that around and change that, without doubt. So, yeah, they're. They, you know, look at me and they don't get it in the sense like they're not addicted to sugar and think about it the way I did. But we all live a pretty, pretty clean, healthy life now, which is is fantastic, and I'm so happy for that, for my son and my husband.

William Davis, MD: 33:20

So what do you find is the entry point, the starting point for a lot of your followers? Is it because they're struggling with weight? Is it because they're struggling with emotional problems? Is it because they are diabetic? What brings people to you?

Joyce Laszloffy: 33:32

Yeah, it's all three of those. So they do. They're all. The majority are diabetic, pre-diabetic. I mean I have women that you know come in that have A1Cs that are in the nines, you know, nines to sevens Doing my program. They drop down to the sixes, into the fives, the low fives. They're resting. You know their glucose morning glucose is above 200 in the two fifties. They drop it down to a hundred to in the nineties, you know, doing the program.

Joyce Laszloffy: 34:02

Um, but what really gets like if you look at at I get all my ladies through advertising on Facebook and it's really focused on what grabs people in to even be interested in learning more about this is the emotional side, is just sharing and connecting. Like what I just shared, you know, right now, with our listeners about my story of how I struggled emotionally and how I would hide the food and how I would eat it. They think they're alone in that area, they think they're weak in that area and they're not weak. They've just got some really strong bugs, you know, and they've got a lot of chemicals and food going in them. Right now that is making them addicted and craving and having these thoughts and so when I can show them that and share my story with them. That brings them in, you know, into the community, and then I'm sharing you know more about and we get to the weight right, in the sense that the weight is the last thing I think it's the same with you to to to worry about and focus on, because every other diet, that's what they focused on and that doesn't work. You know you've got to stop the blaming and shaming. Now it's very crucial that they understand where their weight is and all of their markers. That's part of the one of the first things in module one that I have women do is because the only way change can occur is through awareness.

Joyce Laszloffy: 35:22

So a lot of times they may be 250, 300 pounds coming into my program and they're not even really fully aware that they're overweight. They're not aware of even their physical symptoms. You know that, hey, their watch is making a mark on their wrist. You know that they can't get their wedding ring off. You know, oh, there we go. You know that their ankles, you know, are all swollen and their socks are indenting in these little things that I point out in the course, and so I have them get just a basic like BMI scale.

Joyce Laszloffy: 35:55

I want them to get on that. I want them to to know what their body percent fat is. Don't care really too much about the BMI. I think that's inaccurate. You know I could have a bit higher BMI because I've got a lot of muscle on my body, but that I want them to learn about visceral fat, so important. So to measure that, and even though scales might not be 100% accurate, like a DEXA scan, it's a marker right, and if they just keep using that consistently, they'll see the change, whether it's the most complete, accurate change. And it's not to blame and shame them oh my gosh, this is what you are.

Joyce Laszloffy: 36:31

I want them to take starting photos. I want them to really look at themselves so that they can really see who they are, what their body, what they've done to their body, and again, it's not to put fault on them, but to have a wake-up call, get their head out of the sand, and then from there we can move forward. We can go forward with that, and one of the other reasons why I don't want them to kick sugar when they're starting because one of the tasks I have also is I want them to download an app like, for instance, myfitnesspal, and I want them to track what they eat on average. You know, on a daily average of their food. You know everything. And I want them to have a food scale so they can really see. You know what a bag of potato chips you know it's like. One serving of potato chips is what? Like 12 chips? It's nothing right. 28 grams. I mean, I know this off the top of my head, but you know you need to. That's empowering. It's not to become obsessive about it, but you need to. That's empowering. It's not to become obsessive about it. It's to have knowledge and from knowledge, when you have that power, then you can make sound decisions and the best decisions for yourself. And so I have them track that.

Joyce Laszloffy: 37:38

What's interesting is when I started the course myself and I had written the course three years after I had kicked sugar, so I'd already kicked sugar, I'd been sugar-free for three years and after talking to people, that's when I said you know what, I'm going to write this. So I had to go back and remember how much sugar was I eating and I tracked it and I was consuming on average about 186, 180 grams of sugar a day. Out of sugar. I thought that was a lot. I mean particularly because when you read, like, what the average American consumes, they say it's not even that much. I'm like they're delusional. Who's ever coming up with these numbers? Because my ladies, I coach them and see them face to face every month and I talk to them and they all share when they do this task. They are consuming on average, you're not, I mean, you might believe this, but anywhere between 400 to 500 grams of added sugar a day.

Joyce Laszloffy: 38:32

Because I wasn't eating McDonald's then. You know, I was just eating. Well, just, I was just having a roll of cookie dough and two tubs of ice cream and some M&Ms, but they're eating that. And then they're also eating the French fries and they're having the Coke. I wasn't drinking soda. They're drinking a lot of soda. I mean, you know one soda you got 46 grams of sugar in that right there, and they could have two, three, four a day. Or they'll have a Big Mac and they don't realize. The bun hey, that's probably like eight, 10 grams of sugar right there. The ketchup there's another four grams. I mean it adds up and that's where they have that oh my gosh, aha moment.

Joyce Laszloffy: 39:08

And as much as it's like wow, it's also very exciting and liberating because I mean, if they just cut that out, just the added sugar, that added sugar a day, imagine what it will do to their life. You know so cause then a lot of times they'll start and they'll say, well, what about honey or Date Paste or Stevie or Monkford? I'm like, let's not worry about that. You know, when you get to where I am, then we can start analyzing how good is that. Let's just work on this right now, and that alone is going to friggin change your life, and it does I mean these women that I'm talking about getting their A1C from nine down to sixes and fives. They haven't even gotten like totally physically fit yet. It's just from changing that, going from 500 grams of added sugar a day down to maybe even 80.

Joyce Laszloffy: 39:58

Now I'm prescribing not to consume more than 25 grams of added sugar a day. That's the goal. But again, it's not about perfection, right, it's progress. 25 grams of added sugar a day, and I like to say that added sugar should be coming from something like maybe the honey. If you bake, you know, I make this delicious banana bread. The entire banana bread has one tablespoon of honey in it, you know. And then either some dark chocolate chips or chalk zero chips that's sweetened with monk fruit, you know so like. Add that up just so you have an idea. But don't worry about the fruit. Eat the fruit whole, right, not fruit juice, but whole, with the fiber, the vitamins, the minerals, packed with all that. The way nature intended us to eat fruit to slow down the absorption of the sugar and to feel full. You know then, if you eat that, if you eat the real whole foods, you won't be craving that ultra processed food and you'll be able to kick it so much easier for sure.

William Davis, MD: 40:56

Well, you've gotten to a point of fairly sophisticated level of understanding and enlightenment. What happens when you talk to my colleagues, the doctors?

Joyce Laszloffy: 41:05

They've actually been really supportive of the community. I think they really get it. You know, I mean of course there's going to be some with egos. I mean I just had a woman share in the group, literally like two weeks ago, say she went to her doctor, she had gray socks. She was wearing her eye kick sugar, sugar socks. It said, sure, the doctor's been monitoring her and you know, keeping her eye on everything. And she was on metformin. She's off of metformin now. And the doctor says so, did you really? She's like did I really what? Did you really kick sugar? Does sugar really suck? She's like did I really what? Did you really kick sugar? Does sugar really suck? She's like, yeah, I really did. You know it's been eight months now and she's lost over 60 pounds. You know her A1C is down, her blood glucose level off metformin and he's. And he walks around. She tells us in the group she walked, he walked around his desk and he pulls out a little mini Snickers bar and says you sure? And he pulls out a little mini Snickers bar and says you sure, I mean it's horrid, it's just horrible that you know, I mean that's you and I get that.

Joyce Laszloffy: 42:15

Look, sometimes, you know, at certain doctor's offices like really, you did, you know. But you see, in the medical industry I mean I'm healthier than you know most nurses and doctor's offices that I go into if I have to get something done or get some labs done. But yes, I think in the general, in the community that we're amongst you know doctors like yourself who are the cutting edge and who are looking beyond. You know Western medicine or prescribing Ozempic. You know that they're definitely welcoming and open to these conversations and can see and saying to me you know more power to you. You know if you can get your message out there and help people, it doesn't matter how.

Joyce Laszloffy: 42:56

And I don't claim to be a doctor, I'm not a doctor, I'm not. You know, I have no degree in any of that. You know, yes, I went to my love for the body, human body and anatomy started in massage school some 20, I don't know five years ago, 24 years ago I friended a doctor in the clinic who was a naturopathic doctor, who taught at the school there big naturopathic school in Phoenix, tempe and he welcomed me in under his wing to like the cadaver labs and a bunch of his extra higher advanced physiology biology classes and I just like, oh my God, you know, seeing inside the human body was like wow, you know, just amazing to me. And I just, I just can't get enough of this stuff. And I tell women though, like this is, I have no credentials.

William Davis, MD: 43:45

Don't believe me, you know do what you tell them.

Joyce Laszloffy: 43:49

You know, do the research yourself. You know. I hope that I stirred enough questions for you. And if I don't have an answer, you know, look it up. You know, and and even when I give you an answer question, my answer, look it up, you know. And even when I give you an answer question, my answer, look it up. I'm not the one. You should do your own, because that is going to just keep reinforcing even more. You will learn more, you will read more, you will write more, you will understand more and that will ingrain and build that foundation. So I was raised to question authority and that's what I try and teach my ladies. When I go into doctor's appointments, like for family members, and I'm always there to sit and I ask the questions, Usually if the doctor doesn't know me, they're like Are you in the medical profession, Are you a doctor? Like no. But I, yeah, like I surprised them, I know my stuff and, like you've said, I'm not ashamed to say it I think I do know a lot more than most doctors, for sure.

William Davis, MD: 44:45

You know it's sad, joyce, but to this day many perhaps most of my colleagues and the American Diabetes Association continue to say that once you have type two diabetes, you can never become a non-diabetic. You're seeing this every day, aren't you?

Joyce Laszloffy: 44:59

Yes, yes, i're seeing this every day, aren't you? Yes, yes, I am seeing this every day. I don't prescribe to what the American Diabetes Association is. I mean they're just, they're a big, big industry. You know nonprofits with a bunch of people at the top who have big salaries, and you know they're making a lot of money off of people's donations, not helping people.

Joyce Laszloffy: 45:18

You go to their fun runs, their events, and what are they offering you? Orange juice and bagels, you know, and muffins. It's really, it's criminal, frankly, it really is criminal. And you know people put their trust in that. You know they believe that One of the little mini videos that I have my ladies watch is an expose in module six and it's with Michael Moss.

Joyce Laszloffy: 45:44

I know, you know Michael Moss and uncovering the journalist with the expose on big food and they're just, they're angry. That's one of the things I want them to do. I want them to get angry at what the food industry, what our government, what the FDA, our medical profession, is, is, and I don't want to say doing to us because no one can do anything to you. You know we have allowed it because they put their trust and faith in you know what's supposed to be protecting us and unfortunately it doesn't. You know you have to be your own advocate and you are your own best advocate, and so my job is to empower women, and one of the ways of empowering women again is to get them to challenge themselves, challenge authority, starting with me, and think outside the box, for sure.

William Davis, MD: 46:31

Well, Joyce, thank you for sharing your story, including some personal detail. I really do appreciate it. So if someone wants more of your world, what's the best starting place?

Joyce Laszloffy: 46:40

Yeah, hopefully you'll put this link. I offer a free sugar sleuth toolkit and I'll make sure you have the link for that where people can come. Women can just enter in their email address and they will get a free guide email to them that will show them. I mean, we're starting with the basics here, right? Basic step one learn how to read food labels. That's the first thing to empower and you and I might take it for granted because we've been doing it for so many years and we think everybody knows how to read a food label and they don't, and there's nothing to be ashamed about that. So it's to learn that, to learn where the hidden ingredients are. You know 67 different names of sugar. There's even more now. I just learned from you know reading Wheat Belly. I mean all the different names of gluten and all the wheat products. You know we have to empower ourselves with that and so starting at that's a great starting point for them.

Joyce Laszloffy: 47:32

I also offer a free two hour workshop where I teach the three secrets to kick sugar.

Joyce Laszloffy: 47:40

They can either take that it comes with a workbook and do it on their own or, if they want that extra support and accountability, they can join the community and be a part of it and then meet me face to face, you know, monthly, on the live, monthly coaching calls which are so powerful.

Joyce Laszloffy: 47:55

Community is key and having that support system beyond even you know once you kicked it to have people in your corner because you become, you know, as a. Who said it? I forgot who said it, the famous quote, you know you were the five people you hang around with the most. So it's like if you don't have that in your family, in your life, in your circle of friends, they're all eating unhealthy, they're not moving their body and exercising and reading these books and listening to these podcasts. Join us, join, you know you so that they can have that community, because that is crucial and that makes the world of a difference. For sure, and that's one of the reasons why I do what I do. You know this keeps it alive for me, so that I continue on that journey because I still need it. Then I meet someone like you and you know it just continues on, without doubt so crucial.

William Davis, MD: 48:46

Well, thank you, joyce, and thank you for doing what you do. It's really so critical. You know this. The right message is not coming from the place that are supposed to be, american Diabetes Association. Don't make us laugh, right. Most doctors, sad to say, not doing their job. So thank you for doing what you do. It is so critical, so important.

Joyce Laszloffy: 49:05

Thank you, and thank you for what you're doing and thanks for having me on. It's been a pleasure.