Child Life Wild Life
Jessica Lewin, CCLS & The Child Life Mentor, sits down with Certified Child Life Specialists, students, and professionals to talk about topics surrounding the field of child life. Come and gain tangible next steps and confidence as you learn how to use your child life skills, protect your mental health, and glean inspiration, hope, and ideas. I'm so happy you're here!
Child Life Wild Life
The Wild Life of Child Life in a Middle-High School with Cassie Wilke
Certified Child Life Specialist, Jessica Lewin, talks with friend and fellow school child life specialist, Cassie Wilke, about her experience working in a middle-high school for her first school year (2022-2023).
Cassie passionately demonstrates the value a child life specialist brings to a school environment, despite the intricate licensing requirements in Minnesota. She shares her unique insights into staff retention difficulties in schools and the impact on students. Listen in as we discover the pivotal role an empathetic and understanding child life specialist can play in fostering partnerships between teachers, parents, and students.
In the final part of our discussion, Cassie paints a vivid picture of a day in her life, discussing her day-to-day tasks and her open-door policy. She shares valuable insights into understanding and effectively implementing 504 plans, a type of accommodation plan for students with disabilities, as well as all the other hats she happens to wear.
This episode is a must-listen if you're interested in the world of child life in schools, or simply want to understand how resilience and creativity can shape one's professional path.
You can follow Cassie at @_cassandrapaige on Instagram.
Track: Odessa — LiQWYD & Scandinavianz [Audio Library Release]Music provided by Audio Library PlusWatch: https://youtu.be/jNy-Dp3lgcgFree Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/odessa
I have found that my focus and my comfortability in having difficult conversations with kids, with families, with other adults that are trying to work. I don't run away from those conversations where I think some people feel uncomfortable in there, when that's not something that they've done before and that's all work that we kind of grew up on. Coming together in the hospital, having those difficult conversations whether it's explaining a new diagnosis to a child or to a family or being in a bereavement situation that's a level of comfortability that not everybody has, and so I think we've been able to really transfer that to the school system and not shy away from those difficult conversations.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Child Life Wildlife Podcast, a platform dedicated to sharing the honest ends and outs and vulnerable truths about the child life profession. With your host, jessica Lewin, come and gain tangible next steps and confidence as you learn how to use your child life skills, protect your mental health and green inspiration, hope and ideas from fellow certified child life specialists, students and professionals. And now here's your host, jessica Lewin.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to the Child Life Wildlife Podcast. Today I'm sitting down with Cassie Wilkie. She is a Child Life Specialist for about eight years and within the last year she has stepped into the school. She is also working in grades six through 12, just like myself, her school is a little bit bigger than mine, so I for those of you who may not know my sixth through 12th grade is only like 290 to 300 students very, very small rural school, and she is at a sixth through 12th grade school that is more like 550. So just a little bit bigger than mine, but still small. And she's located in Minnesota. She had such great information on what her last year has looked like and the chaos that has ensued and how she's worn so many hats in the school setting and really just we got to really talk about how the school is a broken system that is not going to be fixed right away and we have to be comfortable with the uncomfortable and I'm just really excited for you to hear this conversation.
Speaker 3:So, without further ado, here is my conversation with Cassie Wilkie on taking child life to school. Hi, cassie, thank you so much for being on the Child Life Wildlife podcast. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. I feel like we know each other, but we don't, because as we just hopped on this Skype call, we were like I've never actually seen you before. We've had lots of conversations as you've navigated this new role that you were in last year. So I'd love to just start out, before we get into all of that, just giving you space to tell us a little bit about you, who you are, how long you've been a Child Life Specialist, fun facts or really anything that you'd like for me and my listeners to know.
Speaker 1:Yes, awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. Just like you said, I do feel like we know each other, so I'm excited to just kind of get into it a little bit. But so I have been a Child Life Specialist for almost eight years, seven years being in the hospital setting, so moving to the school was really new. It was a new adventure.
Speaker 1:I learned about Child Life when I was like a junior in high school, which was rare. I feel like to find something so passionate like that early on and stick with it. And so I learned about it just from, like, a family friend who had experienced Child Life with their family. And I kind of went home and I like researched it and I was like, what is Child Life? Like I had never heard of it before, right, and so I wanted, I wanted something medical, I wanted something with kids.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to be a nurse, I didn't want to be a doctor, like I just didn't really know. So I researched it, I stuck with it, I loved it and I kind of was slightly naive, I think, to how difficult it would be to get into the field of Child Life. I kind of was operating under the impression like, well, it's what I meant to do, so I'm just going to get there, you know. And I was met with a lot of roadblocks along the way but was able to get an internship, secure that and took a job right out of my internship.
Speaker 1:So I feel very grateful for my journey to be a Child Life specialist. But yeah, it's been an incredible and wild eight years. For sure, I'm married, I'm a mom of two, two young boys, two year old and an almost five year old. So my life is chaos, it's just loud and it's messy, but it's a lot of fun. So that keeps me on my toes and that keeps me busy, for sure. When I'm not working.
Speaker 1:So I mean, like my biggest things that just like bring me joy, fill me up, is like really time with my family. We're super close, we all live really close to each other, so just getting that time together makes me super happy. And also, since I took this job at the school, I've had the opportunity to start coaching as well. So I've been coaching tennis, which is really fun. I played tennis all through high school. I really loved it, and so I've had the opportunity to kind of take that program over, which has been a journey as well so.
Speaker 1:I feel like between all of that stuff, it keeps me quite busy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so, diving into a little bit of your seven years of experience in the hospital setting, talk to me a little bit about what units or departments that you worked on before moving.
Speaker 1:So the first job that I took right out of my internship was in the emergency department. It was at like a satellite site, so it was a smaller, just emergency department that contracted a physician and a child life specialist in an adult emergency department, and so I really got the opportunity to work there one on one with a physician, which was a really cool, unique opportunity, and I spent about two and a half years there. I was working nights, working weekends. I was like getting married, ready to start a family, and I was kind of like, okay, like I need a little bit of a change in terms of like the work I'm doing and the schedule and things like that. So then from there I took a role with our comfort promise program, which the hospital I worked at started, a program called the comfort promise, which is a pain initiative, and so they had a child life specialist assigned to that role.
Speaker 1:That did a lot of that. It was really unique. So that role was a lot of education for other hospitals, for staff. It's a lot of presenting. I'd go into clinic settings that didn't have child life and work on like positioning, work on pain management, work on distraction techniques really help them build some skills that they weren't used to and they didn't have, and they didn't have access to child life. So I was in that role for about two and a half years and then, due to, just like some hospital staff restructuring, I kind of got moved into surgery, which was a job that I thought I wanted and that I thought was going to be the dream right.
Speaker 1:Like I was like oh this is going to be the best job ever. And when I took that job, when we kind of I was like half comfort promise, half surgery, I remember telling my boss like I'm going to retire here, Like I'm never going to leave surgery.
Speaker 1:I love it so much. It was a great group of people. I loved the work, I love the kids. I liked the, I liked the outpatient flow and then things changed, obviously. But so yeah, so I worked there for about two years in surgery before making the switch to the community setting.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So with that being said of I'm going to retire here, what made you want to make the switch then to the community setting?
Speaker 1:That was really hard to kind of grapple with was the idea that I thought that that was going to be it for me, but I, I mean, I live an hour from the hospital that I worked at, so I had a really hefty commute and I really, I mean that would be from any hospital that I could work, you know, at here in Minnesota. It was going to be an hour drive regardless. So the commute was really hard. I was getting up at 415 in the morning, out the door, like I wouldn't see my kids. You know, I'd put them to bed at night and I wouldn't see them until four o'clock the next day.
Speaker 1:So the commute, the commute, was tough for sure, but I just started to not feel happy and not feel fulfilled and I didn't have the energy for my family, for my kids, for the things that I wanted to do. I didn't have that time and energy anymore. I would get home and I felt crabby and I just felt short with my own children and I felt like they don't deserve that. You know, like something, something's different, something's not right here, and my coworkers and I had talked like was this always going to be the trajectory? Was this COVID? Covid changed a lot right?
Speaker 1:So like what, what was it going to be? And I guess we're never going to know that. But I think I just I I just knew that I needed to make a change and I kind of was at the point where I was like, if it's a change for six months, if it's a change for a year, if it's a change for five years, I don't know, but I need to just step away. And.
Speaker 1:I need to take a little bit of a pause in the healthcare field and try something else, and so that's kind of why I stepped away and then obviously have loved the experience that I've had outside of the healthcare field.
Speaker 3:So yeah, were you in surgery when COVID hit.
Speaker 1:You were okay, yeah, yep. So, and I mean, our hospital like our boss at the time she really bought hard to keep child life there we were going through a lot of layoffs, we were experiencing a lot, right. But our role really changed once COVID hit. So surgeries like that was an elective, you know, they had positive elective surgeries. So there was two full time staff in surgery at the time. So one of us stayed full time and the other one kind of took on some other roles. So we had to do. I mean we just had to do the most random things, right, like we had these employee support centers that we were working and we were delivering coffee and we were doing all these random jobs and I wasn't getting to see kids, I wasn't getting to like do the work that I loved. So that was really hard. You know, I had to go furlough for a little bit. It just it changed a lot, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my coworker at the time. She was in surgery and she fortunately was pregnant during, like right at the beginning of COVID. She literally like gave birth and then COVID hit and then she, luckily the surgery child life specialist. She was like well, I guess I'll just take my maternity leave for three months, like. And then they kind of just said like you can just take it and we'll let you know when to come back, type of thing.
Speaker 3:Because we really people were, like you said, being furloughed and we really didn't know. And you're right, we were doing odd jobs and weird things that were not typically a part of our day. There was like a whole day that the Child Life team went out to the parking garage and like drew chalk, like drawings, to like be encouraging. You know, just random stuff. That is not my day to day, but yeah, that I. I actually for myself never thought that maybe COVID played a part in the reason why I wanted to leave the hospital setting, but it was such a challenging time. So when you think about, when you think about stepping out this last year, how did this position in the school setting come about for you? Did you sell this position to the school as something that could add value to the mental health team.
Speaker 1:It was kind of random how it all came about.
Speaker 1:My mom, of all people, sent me a screenshot of a job posting that the school that I'm at now had posted, and they had posted for a middle school counselor. And she's like, oh, you'd be great at this. And I was like, well, yeah, mom, but I'm not a counselor, I don't have that license. And she's like, well, I'll talk to so and so and a couple of people at the school, and it ended up coming back to me being that the principal there at the time had said I don't care about the degree or the license, I care about the right person being there. And so I think at that point, that's when I kind of connected with you and I was like what do I do in terms to prepare? So then I got a call the next day they wanted to interview and I was like, whoa, this is happening super fast. So I went in, I interviewed and the principal at the time called me the next day and he was like you're fantastic, I would do anything to hire you, but I can't.
Speaker 1:And I was like what do you mean? You can't. And he's like well, the state, which I don't know if this is something that you encountered at all.
Speaker 1:But the state of Minnesota makes it really difficult for people to work in the school system without specific license. So he's like I've been on the phone with them. We can't make it work. And I was like well, pause for a second. I mean, take counselor off the table. I'm not a counselor, get that word out. I said can you post for a Child Life Specialist and can you hire me? And he was like well, that's a good idea, I'm going to look into it. But if you don't hear from me, it was nice to meet you and I was like OK, ok, I know where that's going. And so at that point I was like, well, this was really cool. It was something that I got my hopes up for but was really interested in looking into. But I also didn't really have time to prepare.
Speaker 1:Like he said have a proposal ready, Get some data.
Speaker 1:Get some research, some resources available. So I was like, well, I'm going to pause on this. I still had a job that I was enjoying. I didn't hate my job. I wasn't like I need to leave right now. So I was like I'm just going to work this next year on how to sell this right, how to make this a proposal. And then the principal left. And so then they hired yeah. So then I was kind of like, well, he wasn't invested right, like he didn't necessarily, maybe I don't know, he just wasn't invested, sure. And so they hired an interim principal and then the high school counselor left. So they had filled that middle school counselor position and then the high school counselor left and I was like, ok, what is happening? And so that same group of people that kind of advocated for me from the first day. They went to like the superintendent, before they had even posted for another filling of that position. They had kind of went to the superintendent, they had went to that interim principal and kind of like, hey, we have this person, here's what she can do, here are her skills.
Speaker 1:And I think what's a little different in my situation is this is the community that I grew up in. It's the community that I live in, it's the community that my kids will go to school in, and so they knew, you know, those people who knew me as a person knew that I was invested, yeah, and that was something that the school had lacked right, like it was kind of a stepping piece for a lot of people, because it's a small town, it's a super small town, small district. So they had kind of advocated for me and the superintendent was like OK, sure. So the interim principal called, you know, and she was like come in, I'll interview you. And I walked in and there was a contract on the table and so we chatted a little bit. She had known that I had gone through the interview process before she had heard, you know, she had heard all about it.
Speaker 1:But honestly, I think they were desperate to fill. I mean, this was July, end of July, well, mid-july probably, but they were desperate, right, they needed to fill that position. And so we had kind of gone back and forth and I'll never forget sitting across the table from her and I was like why do you think child life would be useful, you know? And she said like she had done her research, which I really appreciated.
Speaker 1:Wow, she said she's like you have an expertise in grief and loss. You know, you have these special skills that not everybody has, right, and it's something that we see in this education system all the time students grappling with death and change and they need coping skills. And so I was like aha, like you get it, you know, and that was like really like a click for me, and so we kind of negotiated a little bit. We went back and forth, obviously like the pay, just like those fine details that we kind of had to air out a little bit. I ended up signing on and I kind of you know, we both kind of went into it Like we don't know what the state is going to come back and say so this might just be a year long thing.
Speaker 1:And I was kind of like OK, this is that pause that I needed, but also like now I get to show proof myself. I get to get in there and I get to do the work and I get to show them that I am an asset to the school and that they're going to want to make it work regardless, and so that's kind of how I had to go into the year was like I have to prove myself you know, and have just gotten the best, most fulfilling feedback from everybody on just you know myself, but also just like the skills that we have.
Speaker 3:It's been great so yeah, could you talk a little bit more about what your opinion is of how do we, as Child Life Specialists, add value to a community setting like a school?
Speaker 1:I think that we I mean we're so used to being in the health care setting and helping kids have coping skills right, helping them navigate that.
Speaker 1:Something that I was super familiar with in surgery was communication with like a whole team of health care professionals right, all of those things are happening in the school system.
Speaker 1:It just looks different, right. Like we get to help kids build coping skills. I get to be like the middle person between the student, the teacher, the principal, the family, and I kind of help have those conversations. We get to provide kind of like a different point of view for a lot of things. There's multiple times where I'd be working with, like our dean of students or you know somebody who's we're trying to come up with some plan of discipline and I'm like, well, let's think about this, right, like let's think about it this way, kind of, you know, advocating for the student too, while also having boundaries. But it's really like I have found that my focus and like my comfortability in having difficult conversations with kids, with families, with other adults that are trying to work, like I don't run away from those conversations where I think some people feel uncomfortable in there when that's not something that they've done before right.
Speaker 1:And that's all work that we kind of grew up on right, like coming together in the hospital, having those difficult conversations, whether it's, you know, explaining a new diagnosis to a child or to a family, or being in a bereavement situation, like that's a level of comfortability that not everybody has. And so I think I've been able, we've been able to really transfer that to the school system and not shy away from those difficult conversations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that just made me think of this. Towards the end of the school year, you know, we had so many middle schoolers who were just, and high schoolers, honestly, who were just apathetic, and I know that a lot of that can stem from what their family involvement is like and what their home life is like. And so, you know, I'd have this teacher come into my office and super frustrated with this one student inventing, inventing, inventing and I'll say, have you called home? And they'll be like, no, that mom is worthless, she's not gonna do anything. And in my mind I'm like okay, so if all six of this middle schoolers teachers decide this mom is worthless, she's not gonna do anything, what is that mom thinking about? The school? Nobody contacts me. What? It's not a partnership, right. And then when I say that I've had multiple conversations with this mom that are very helpful, that I do see changes in the child's behavior, the teachers still have this notion of like. Well, no, it just doesn't.
Speaker 3:But I have to empathize for the teachers of like you have like for middle school. I mean, what? 50 to 100 to 100 plus students that you're seeing a day between your different hours. I can't imagine having that load every day and seeing so many kids that are apathetic that you're just like I don't know what to do and I don't have the time. And I think we create a really beautiful in-between of, like you said, that liaison between teacher and parent or caregiver or grown up at home, like that. It's just such something that we have the time and not a lot of other professions have that time. I mean, my middle high school counselor is swamped with so many things that are, let's be honest, not in her degree. I mean scheduling and college visit, like that's not. She didn't sign up for that, but it's the hats that she has to wear.
Speaker 1:I think, very similar to what you said. I mean it's there's a lot of students where you know, if we go around and we hear from teachers like, well, they just don't care, they're just lazy, they're just, you know, they're just, they're acting out their behaviors da-da-da and it's like their behavior is coming from something right, like their behavior is telling you something you have to dig into it. And some teachers, some teachers like to take that on. Some teachers like to talk to parents and kind of dig into that.
Speaker 1:Other teachers, just like you said, I mean they have the best intentions, they're there for the right reasons, but they're juggling so much, so much, and so it really can be that conversation. And then it's a. You know, it's a tricky spot between, like I can't tell them some of the things that I would love to be able to tell them right, like I can't say this is X, y, z what the student is dealing with at home layoff.
Speaker 1:They're okay. The fact that they walked in the door today is enough. But sometimes then I do like in a in a, in a delicate way, just like we're just grateful that they're here. If you have an issue, just send them down to my office. You know, like you don't have to put up with certain things in your classroom, you get to hold those boundaries and you get to, you know, lay that out there, but like you have no idea, you know, and we don't even have any idea for half of it, right, like yes, I hear what those kiddos are telling me, but like I'm not in their shoes, I don't live that day to day. So I think the empathetic piece that we can bring also is super helpful, because I think a lot of people lack empathy, you know too, and especially when you're just so overwhelmed I mean, the teacher is like I completely underestimated what they go through- what it?
Speaker 1:looks like on a day to day. I had to like step into a couple of classrooms just cause we were like short staff and I was like, oh, like this is chaos. Like I couldn't do it. So I give mad props to like every teacher who can show up and stay sane, honestly, cause it's tough work, and so I really like to be there to like help them and to shape it from a place of like.
Speaker 3:I'm here to support the teachers just as much as I'm here to support the students, because the teachers need help with the students you know, yeah, how has your first year been in terms of teachers, understanding your role or understanding the difference between you and a counselor or a social worker? What has that looked like? That's been confusing, I think, for sure.
Speaker 1:I think, for everybody. So much so that actually, like at the end of the year, I was talking with one of the teachers who works on a lot of the staff development stuff and we're kind of, you know, we had kind of made almost like a staff handbook. Like here's what you call Cassie for. Here's what you'd call a counselor for.
Speaker 1:Here's what you call, just to kind of lay it out there, because we do have a lot of new teachers coming in this year. There is a lot of you know misconception, I think, in terms of what we do, but also we're wearing many hats right. So, like those scheduling pieces, I've taken on some of that. So we started out with one. It was a wild year. We started out with one counselor. She ended up leaving like October, oh gosh, and then we were without a counselor. So that was wild. And it was just you.
Speaker 1:It was just me. It was just me, thankfully again, like I work with the most amazing team of admin who really stepped up and like also love seeing kids and they make the time to see kids. So, yes, it looked different but they helped, they were amazing. And then we ended up having a part-time counselor come on in December and she's lovely, and then she ended up signing on full-time in like April, I believe. So we went, I mean, we went through kind of a wild period. It was just me, a lot of days, and so I kind of took everything for a while, which I am comfortable enough with myself and with my scope and my skills to refer out. We also have a school-based mental health program, so we have therapists that come in-house and see kids. So I kind of knew like, ok, this is where I stop and this is where you need to see somebody else.
Speaker 1:But then, in terms of college stuff or I had to figure it out- I just kind of I was like OK, well, I guess this is where you just dive in and you just figure it out, which is also something that I've always felt. That's just how I learned, like I just have to get in there and do it and figure it out. So not like there were a ton of things that I did that quote unquote weren't my job, but was happy to do it because it was benefiting the kids and because it was helping the team that I was you know that I'm so grateful for, but also like they were grateful for me for stepping in and doing it too. We kind of all just figured it out together.
Speaker 1:And the counselor that I work with now she's fantastic and we really just said like, in terms of like student support, which is really the bulk of what we do, we have just all told the students, like, go to who you're comfortable with, right, like they used to have it spelled out as middle school and as high school. And when I first started, people were like well, I'm in ninth grade, can I see you? And I'm like go to who you're comfortable with. Yeah, find a person who you feel like you can connect with and be authentic with and go there.
Speaker 3:Like.
Speaker 1:I don't care what grade you're in, you know, just find someone you're comfortable with. So that's kind of how we've been able to operate it, which has been nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and are you six through 12? Yeah, you are. And how big is your district? Like how or?
Speaker 1:the six through 12, how many kids? It's like 550 kids.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow. So, in six through 12?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean in terms of like a lot of schools, like it's really small right Like there are a lot of like surrounding schools have that many kids in like one grade. So it's definitely a smaller district, which I love because I know the names and the faces of 90% of them Right, but when I was by myself it was a lot.
Speaker 3:Oh for sure. Yeah, especially as your first year. Like that's a lot. I am six through 12 as well, and I think our total is like right around 300. So I'm even smaller than yours, but I do. I know every single kid. I can tell you their first and last name and oftentimes who their family is, who their siblings are, and but you just get to know them when it's small and intimate like that.
Speaker 3:And I think, like you said earlier too, is schools are struggling so much with retaining anything An admin, a teacher, a counselor, a social worker it's just hard out there right now to find anybody willing to step into there, because I think we're just at a time where it's hard. Kids are apathetic. I have so many feelings about social media and phones and what sets doing to attention spans for kids and that teachers are struggling, and then admins sometimes are stepping into positions before they're ready and then they're not helpful for teachers. And then you have the turnover and it's a lot. And when I first stepped into this role back in 2021, the high schoolers were on since sixth grade. They were on their third or fourth principal and I was like gosh, the stinks, like they've been through so much.
Speaker 3:And then the next year, my second year, the counselor, the principal and the assistant principal all left and I was like huh. And the secretary was like this is just kind of normal. And in my mind I was like how traumatic almost for these students to build this rapport with these people that they trust, to then come back and nobody's there that they remember. And I was the only person in the front office this past year who was still there. And let me tell you, the kids who did not talk to me the year before, first thing it was like hi, mrs Lewin. Because it was like oh, you stayed, you are still here, and that means more to these kids than a lot of things.
Speaker 3:So I get what you're saying of like have the kids just go to who they're comfortable with. I'm totally able to support kids. That is within my scope. But you're right, there's a point in the conversation or there's a point where you realize like ugh, this is more than just I need to get this off my chest about this breakup that I'm having. That's like affecting my concentration in class, it's more than that. And now I'm like ugh, this needs to go to our mental health consultant that comes in on Thursdays. So yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:I mean it's crazy how similar like our stories are. I know. I mean when I started, when I went to like the new employee orientation, I was like one of 24 in the district. I mean it was wild. So we had an interim principal at the time, we had a new dean of students and we had a new director of learning or curriculum who also took on that admin role. Our superintendent was only there for two years, a newer principal to the elementary. I mean it was like wild right.
Speaker 1:New counselor. I was new, it was just new. And so we came in and we kind of tried to lay some groundwork and we were met with like a lot of pushback from students. I mean they called us out on day one. I remember looking at the principal being like what did I get myself into? Because they were like you're just here for a year, you're here for two years and then you're out the door. They knew it because that's all that they have experienced. Yeah, like you said, they've had multiple principals this whole time.
Speaker 1:So much turnover Teachers are here. They get that first year under their belt of teaching and then they go to a bigger district. And I don't blame them for it, right, you have to go to where you need to go. But these students were just feeling it. I mean I had kids crying in my office at the end of the year Like you're going to be here next year, right, and I was like, yes, I will be here next year. Why are you going to be here until I graduate? I'm like I can't make a promise, right, because that's not fair. But just know I will be here next year.
Speaker 1:And I mean we just heard it time after time after time and the more that they started to feel that we were invested.
Speaker 1:Like our interim principal at the time ended up taking the job and will be back next year and hopefully for many years to follow.
Speaker 1:But when they started to feel like those pieces, those key pieces, were going to be in place the following year, they just started to open up and to trust so much more, so much more. But we heard it, I mean, from. I can think of like five students off the top of my head that were just like I'm not listening to you because you're just going to come in, you're going to tell me X, y and Z and then you're out the door and they had just been burned by making a connection with a teacher and then they left. Or making a connection with the principal, and then they left Like they had just been burned over and over. So I had to explain that to teachers too, like they are struggling. They are really, really struggling with this lack. We either had teachers who had been there for like 30 years that were there when I was in high school, or we had teachers who were like a year or two and then out the door.
Speaker 3:So really hard. It was really hard when I started. I'm going back to our conversation. This is such a great conversation but I'm like hopping all over the place.
Speaker 3:But I was thinking back to when you were saying like it was really hard for teachers and students to know what my job title is, and I think I can say for six and a half years in the hospital, it was difficult for a lot of people to know what my job was, and that's where I'm supposed to be like established is in the hospital, right. So I think the first year I kind of was like it's my first year, I'm just doing the best that I can and I'm going to work on this. The second year of being more intentional, of like really explaining what my job is. And then the second year came and all of my admin and the people that built me up were gone and I was like oh no. And so it became a lot of honestly similar to your year of like taking on things that are not necessarily my job. But the other thing I've learned in the school system is I'm not taking on things that technically need to be done by somebody else. You know where it's like this is a counselor's job only. It's like, well, the counselor does it, but it's not like I have to have a degree in counseling to do the schedule or like you said you know. So I was taking on those things and I got to December and I was like hearing imposter syndrome so much because I was like nobody knows that you're a child life specialist. Everybody calls you a counselor or this or that and like what am I going to do if a kid is telling me you're the best counselor I've ever had? I'm not going to be like actually it's a child life specialist.
Speaker 3:So I called one of my friends who wrote the chapter in the textbook with me back in December, audra, and I was like I need your help. Like what do I do? Because I'm feeling really guilty that people are identifying me as something that I'm not and it's never the right time for me to correct it. But then it's so busy that things get away and I just keep running into it and she goes Jessica, are people calling you? And I said yes. And she said, are they calling you for things that are within your scope? And I said yes, she goes.
Speaker 3:You have a very good relationship with your teachers. You told me your teachers email you back the day of Like your teachers love you, your students love you and if they don't call you a child life specialist right away, it's not going to hurt, anything. Like you don't need to correct if it's not hurting. She's like you wear the badge that says child life specialist. Your door says child life specialist. You are operating in the school as a child life specialist. But it's not the end of the world if people aren't calling you that. But let me tell you the second semester the couple teachers that I was building more stronger rapport with the fact that they would say like Jessica, you're a great child life specialist and we're lucky to have you.
Speaker 3:I was like I'm going to ride that high for the whole rest of the week, or like I was doing a CPS report with a teacher and helping her walk through the online version of it, and it had to say like is there anybody else that shares your concerns? And you write their name and their title and she goes Jessica Lewin, and she types without prompting child life specialist. And I was like that's right, you know, you know, but how have you grappled with the fact that people don't necessarily go Cassie, child life specialist?
Speaker 1:Sure, I think. I mean, it's no different than when we were in the hospital this is what you said, right, like how many times were you with the kid and you're like, you're the nicest doctor there. You're so fun to play lady. We wore a lot of different titles when we were in the hospital as well, and so, like you said, my door says child life specialist. I am a child life specialist. There are plenty of times where, like when I call parents, I'm like oh, I work in the counseling department. Right, like, I'm one of the support staff in the counseling department. Because sometimes it's like, depending on what I'm calling for, it's how much are we going to get into this? Right, because I do think I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but I know, even when I worked in, like our satellite emergency departments. There's a piece of this child life specialist that parents are like what are you here for? It sounds like a child protective services Correct.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so there are plenty of times where, if I'm just making like the quickest phone call, I'll just say like I'm one of the support staff working in the counseling department, because I am.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Like I am a support staff person in the department I'm not saying I'm a counselor, but like here I am but then those families that I have that more rapport with, where I see there's those kids on a more regular basis, you know we kind of get into it, yeah. But like I have been met with like wait, what did you just say?
Speaker 1:You know kind of thing and what I mean. When I first started, like I said, there was a lot of teachers that are there that know me personally, so they knew, like my, you know that I'm was coming from the hospital a lot of families, like I know these people outside of my job too, and so I think it was pretty easy for them to like, oh yeah, she's a child life specialist. Whether or not they know what a child life specialist really is probably not, but they at least call it, call me that, so I'll take it. Yeah Well, they're wise. Like I just don't know that people say anything. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're just like hey, you need to go see Ms Wilkie. And they'll be like, oh, okay, and like, the kids know right, but like and there are plenty of times where the kids will be like, oh, like, you know, you're, yeah, you're a counselor, or whatever, and, depending on the situation, depending on the conversation, I'll be like, oh, I'm not a counselor, you know. Like, if it's just a passing, hey, like, how did you become a counselor?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not a counselor, you know like conversations like that, but if we're in the weeds of like a really difficult conversation, that's not the time to like lay it out there, right.
Speaker 1:But I'm like everything I identify as is a child life specialist, but like sometimes I'm just like whatever, Ms Wilkie, you know, I just hear for you and you know when I have had those conversations with like teachers or I would say it's more common with parents it's just like I'm just here to support the students yeah, that's what I'm here for period, and then they get it, you know they get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I get that a lot too Of. At the end of the day, teachers are really just saying to the students do you want to go see Mrs Lohan? Yeah, they're not saying, do you want to go see something specific? So yeah, you typically are working with the sixth through 12th graders 550 students what Now? There's clearly been no typical day for you this year, but if you had to create some pillars to your day, what can you, what can you count on is happening throughout the day, aside from just like chaos, probably?
Speaker 1:I mean, there it's. Every day is so different. I think usually, like I'm on a couple of different teams. Whether you know, we just have like MTSS, which is like multi-tier, you know, systems of support. So, whether we like meet with that team, assess a couple of students and figure out some supports to put in place, we're coming up with like new implementation stuff for the next year. So sometimes I start with some meetings.
Speaker 1:My favorite part of the day is probably grabbing my cup of coffee and going into the comments to like greet everybody in the morning. Yeah, you know, there's a group of us that just stand at the front door and we just like welcome everybody, we smile and we say good morning and we hope you have a great day, because who knows if kids hear that you know when they leave the door or not. So just getting to like see their faces in the morning is amazing. Sometimes they like bust through the door and they're like I have to tell you something and you're like okay, you know. So it like it brings me so much joy to know that like us, just like showing our faces in the morning makes a difference. So that's probably one of my favorite parts. I have an open door policy for students, right, like they don't have to schedule a time. Some of them will email me hey, can I come on, you know, during six period? Yep, sure, go for it. But otherwise, like, sometimes they're just coming and going, like all of a sudden I'll open my door and there's like two of them sitting on the floor. You know, and I'm like, okay, next come on. Yeah, you know so, but I do kind of teach. Yeah, I have like a running list of kids that I want to check in with each week. So when I have that downtime then I'll, you know, pull a kid down or whatever.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I had taken on this past year was I was in charge of like an advisory. So I just had like a smaller group of eighth graders was the grade that I had, and so we just met. It was like 20 minutes. We just did like little projects. We did mental health check-ins, we just did a kind of a variety of things. That was fun because that it was like a built in way to meet people, especially being new. So I had that that's kind of like. Right in the middle of the day we did lunch supervision, so you just like wander around lunch, which was also great Because the more you show your face, the more they know you, right, like if I just hid in my office they wouldn't know who I am.
Speaker 1:So doing those things. And then, just like the random, like I said, I built student schedules. I built the staff schedule Wow. I was in charge of 504 plans. I ran like a giant buddies program, which was super cool. It paired like our 11th and 12th grade students with elementary students, so we met like once a month for that and I just adored that program, so much loved it. We, you know we would meet with the mental health team. Otherwise, like I was even trying to like look through some of my stuff, like what did I do? Because it feels like so long ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like there were so many like things in my schedule where it was like so-and-so is taking a test at 10 in your office this person, so it's just kind of like helping with that academic support, right, like if they if they need a different accommodation for testing or if they have study hall and they really need to get caught up on something, but like study halls not working for them. I'll be like come down to my office like you can sit in here and it'll just be a quiet space, we can talk, you can work, like whatever. So, and then, yeah, a bunch of students sprinkled in between. Yeah, but every day I mean every day is so different and some like the days just flat. I mean, I, what do you mean? It's two o'clock. Like I've got six more kids. I want to see you know, like it.
Speaker 1:There just wasn't enough hours in the day. Majority of the day is right.
Speaker 3:And that was the one thing working in a middle high school that I felt like was so challenging is that academics obviously is the goal in school and taking kids out of their core classes like math and English. And you have to be kind of strategic. If the kids are really struggling in that class, I can't call them out of that class, so then that cuts down on. Well, I can't do third hour, oh, math they're failing to. Can't do fourth hour, like and trying to figure out at what point can I fit this student in. But then, looking at another schedule, for when can I fit this student in? I would love to know. You mentioned a little bit. You mentioned a little bit about 504 plans. I am also the 504 coordinator. What do you feel like is good about having a child life specialist in that coordinator spot?
Speaker 1:I knew absolutely nothing about 504 plans before I started in school. So when the principal was like you're the 504 coordinator, I was like I'm sorry, what, what is that? And then I just got handed like this stack right, and I'm like looking through them and I'm like what, what is this Right? Thankfully I've done a lot of education now on like what 504 plans are what should be in them.
Speaker 3:Can you explain what a 504 is for somebody who maybe doesn't know? Sure?
Speaker 1:So 504 plans are really just accommodations for students. So it's less than an IEP, but it's just a student who most of the time has, you know, some type of diagnosis, whether it's like anxiety or depression or ADHD, but they don't qualify for that IEP. So they get, they can get placed on a 504 plan and it just puts some accommodations in place. So I feel like for us at our school, a lot of the most common ones are like they can test in a quiet area, maybe some like extended time on an assignment, preferential seating, whether that's like the front of the room near the teacher or by the door, so they can leave things like that. Is that similar to like what you see?
Speaker 3:a lot yeah, and an IEP for people who don't know is like that's specific, like special education services, to where you get qualified for that. So if I04 is like a step down, I would say I usually describe it as like anybody who has like a physical or mental impairment that doesn't qualify for that. So I have quite a few kids that have diabetes that I provide accommodations for in the classroom as well of they have to have their phone on them at all times or they have to. But I find it to be really good for a childly specialist to step in that role, because we are so used to making accommodations for different kids with different abilities. Because I could walk into a five year old's room here and do one thing and I go to the next room and there's a five year old and I'm like, oh, I have to switch it up, and so it's basically just what are you switching up? And put that on paper so that teachers know too.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I this was probably like the hardest part, I think, of my year, just because it was so unfamiliar to me, but it's really important, like it's really important for families, it's really important for students, it's really important for the school. And so I had that imposter syndrome of like I have no idea what I'm doing here. Yeah, so did the research, really looked into it and yes, like you said, making those like helping families think about unique ways to get those accommodations so they can be successful Right, and it's really there to help like level the playing field for all students, right, like it's not giving them extra stuff, it's just to put them on the same playing field as all of the other students, right, and so that part has been the hardest part, I think. For sure it's just because I was so unaware and I still am working on that, right, and like I'll meet with the families this fall. We'll make sure that their 504 plan has the accommodations that they need. Do they still need it?
Speaker 1:But, similar to what you said, like we had a student break their leg, they got put on a 504 plan so they could leave class two minutes before the bell ring so they didn't have to be in their wheelchair fighting through the hallways at the same time.
Speaker 1:Right, like it's, just like there's I mean, there's just so much that could go into it. And so, like you said, we're so used to helping families, like accommodate to what they need and what's going to help them be successful. And you know, I, similar to me in the hospital, I tell all families like you know your child best, like we're going to, we're here, we want to do, obviously, at school we have, we have things that we have to adhere to, but what works at home, because we want to make that work here too you know, and I think having the child life lens of like, we know how to take whatever they do at home and flip it to what that could look like in school, because I've had some parents be like well, I just don't know how this would help and I'll say, like what, what do we do at home?
Speaker 3:or what's helpful at home, when this happens, and they'll say it and I make it school appropriate and they go. You can do that because they don't even think to ask, because they're like well, this isn't possible at school. It's like, but it is. But you just had to talk to the right person, you know, right, so, yeah, so outside of like, I heard you say the 504 and the group and the, was it like a giant?
Speaker 1:What was it called Giant, giant buddies? We're like, who are like mascot as the giants. So they were yeah, like giant, buddies. And you've done like kindness retreats and different things where we get to bring the big kids over to help with the little kids. In that, that has like filled my heart more than I could have ever thought it would.
Speaker 3:So oh, I think so. We our school has been working really hard over the last year and a half to build onto our middle high school an elementary wing, so we are going to be a K, pre K through 12 in the same building and that will be. That'll get us to about 550 to where you're at, but that's like pre K through 12. And I'm excited because I think we're trying to brainstorm some ideas of how we can get the big kids to hang out with the little kids or help with that mentoring aspect too. But I think that will be so fun and my guess is I will probably be the person that will do that.
Speaker 3:I one of the hats that I wear is a peer to peer supervisor, and so we have usually like 10th, 11th and 12th graders who are taking this like elective class, where they're paired with a middle schooler who has an IEP, and especially if they have an IEP for autism, that's like one of the key ones that they they say that that is important to have a peer, and so they just sit in the classroom and they're their buddy for that class every single day and teaching them appropriate ways to engage with their peers or appropriate ways to ask a question to a teacher and little things like that. That that's one of my like really rewarding things that I do too, because you, the big kids, will come to me and ask, like my kid is doing this and I don't really know how to help them, and then we find a way to bridge that gap and it's like really special. So yeah, so, year one you're done, you're on summer break, you're loving it. What was the highlight of your year and what was your biggest moment of growth?
Speaker 1:I think I think the highlight was the kids. I mean I like when I was in the hospital I was an outpatient gal Like I just loved outpatient, I love that quick turnover, and so that was one of the things that I was really unsure about when I started at the school I was like well, this is inpatient, essentially right. Like this is relationship building. This is like getting to see these kids day in, day out at their best at their worst, like I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about it, and I love it.
Speaker 1:And I love like because it's the community that I live in. I can go to the grocery store and like half of the senior class works there and I'm like, oh hello, you know, and they're just like Miss Milwaukee and or like I'll just be out, you know like, at a community event or something, and I just do so many of them and I just love it, love it.
Speaker 1:Like just love it so much, and so those kids have just brought such a joy to my heart. They have made me feel so content, so happy, so that's really been like the high of the year. The low or the hardest part, I think. I think in the health care. I mean, I was fortunate we had a really, really robust child life department. And we were like 55 people between child life music therapy. So we were well established, big team with lots of resources.
Speaker 1:And so the low, like the hardest part for me moving into the education system was like I was it. I didn't have resources, I didn't have like this ginormous team of people at my fingertips that we could just, like you know, brainstorm with and I couldn't fix everything. And that was hard, like not that we could fix everything when we were in the hospital, but we could also like talk to other people. We knew different resources that could. And so when I came to the school, I think I was there for like a week when, like I had just kids in and out, like I'm gay and my parents don't accept it, I'm depressed and my parents won't get me help. I, you know like, and I was like what do I do? Like how do I, how do I fix this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I had to be OK with the fact that I can't fix it and I'm never going to be able to fix it, but I can just listen and I can just support. And so I think that was probably like the toughest part of the year was just that transition of like you don't have resources, you don't know what to do, right, like, and I can't fix everything for these kids. Like I think I worked there for, yeah, a very short period of time and I came home and I told my husband I was like we got to finish the basement. Like these kids are going to be moving in pretty soon if I keep going at this rate. Like, my goodness, you know, I was like fully prepared to just take them in. Yeah, because I'm like, well, I can love these kids, like you know, like they don't. I just I can care you know and I think that's what they're missing is somebody who cares.
Speaker 1:So that was the toughest part was I just struggled with. I can't change their whole life, yeah, and I can't. You know, I can't force their parents to accept them. I can't force their parents to get them help. All I can do is, like advocate and provide education and hope that in their own time things change, but also, if not, like hey, I'm still here, you know, you can still come see me, and so I think that was that was the turning point of the year. That was really difficult.
Speaker 3:In the school system. I like how you said it's like inpatient. That's exactly the same way that I think of it as but even inpatient child life like for the most part. Even if, like, let's say, a three year old was there all the time by themselves and I didn't quite know the reason why the mom or somebody wasn't coming in, I could tell myself a story of like oh well, she's got other kids at home or she's working, or.
Speaker 3:But when you're in a school system where you know things, you can't unknow them, and so you're like, oh, people at home just don't care, and I hate that. And I that really affected me my first year as well of like I can't fix everything. And I had to talk to my friend who works in the school as an assistant principal in California and she was like the school system's broken and like you're coming into a place that's broken and so you need to get comfortable with the fact that you're not going to be able to like wave of magic wand and make everything better for everyone. You're making a difference, but you're not going to make it be gone and like be better. And I was like, yeah, but that is such a hard thing to wrestle with.
Speaker 1:But we just show up right, like, and I think that's what they need more than anything. Yeah, you just need someone who's going to show up consistently and be there and I'm like, hey, I can do that for you, absolutely, a million times over, I can do that for you. But yeah, it's tough, it's really tough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is very tough. I have gone to some extracurricular things of like theater performances or volleyball games or basketball games, knowing that I was going to be the only person showing up for that student. Yeah, but like that makes the biggest difference and nobody else has to know. That's the reason I came you know Right, but everybody else is just like, oh, mrs Lewin's in the audience or she's there and nobody knows like. I honestly came because that kid's got nobody here.
Speaker 1:There was a point where I was asked to like walk with a student like I would ask by the student to walk with them on parent night, because they didn't have a parent and I was just like, oh my gosh. Like and.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm extremely fortunate in the family that I came from, they showed up, they loved us so hard and I just couldn't wrap my head around how that could happen. And I think, even like growing up in this community, I worked. You know, I worked in downtown Minneapolis, which has a lot going on, so I would leave work and I'd be like so long I'm out of here I'm going to go home to my nice little bubble, yeah. And then, starting in the school, I realized that it's not a nice little bubble Like I thought it was. I had my head in the sand a little bit, completely, completely underestimated, like what kids go through, what family dynamics are like, right, like it. Just I had no idea. That was a very eye-opening experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, this conversation has been lovely. I'm super excited for us to head into these last closing questions that I ask everyone. So the first one is, if someone's listening and really resonating with what you're saying about taking child life to the school, setting what's one tangible action step that they could take to get them on the right path and achieving the school?
Speaker 1:I think you have to be passionate, like I think that that is really what has sold, like my school on me In a sense and on child life was like I am passionate, I am here, I want to do the work. I care about these kids, I care about this community. I am here to do the work. I also think being prepared right Like I spoke to the fact that I was not because this all kind of just happened really fast, yeah, but I think if this is something that people are thinking about, it's really I think in the education system there's a lot of black and white right and you don't have this license, you can't work here, and I heard that a couple times.
Speaker 1:It took somebody who was going to be creative and think outside the box. How are we going to get her? Here is what it took, right.
Speaker 1:So, I think if you can be prepared and you can have some of those you know questions already answered, because I do think it's super common where they're like, well, you don't have a counseling license or you're not a social worker, 100% we can't have you.
Speaker 1:We're actually like, yes, you can, this is just how we need to do it. So, if you can have some of that groundwork laid and figured out so that when you are met with those things, you have a thoughtful response and you have some information to kind of give back right, and I'm hopeful that with the work you're doing that I'm doing it is going to continue to grow. Yeah, and, like you said, I mean the schools are hurting in terms of staff and retaining people and I just hope that the education system as a whole will open their eyes and realize, like that there are other specialties that can benefit these students. You don't have to have a counseling license or a social work license. Yeah, there are things that we can be creative in doing, so I'm hopeful for that. But I would just say be you know, be prepared and just get people face to face. I do think child life.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have never met a child life specialist who, like is really dull right, Like, like that's just not the field of work that we're in. Yeah. So I think, the more that you can get people face to face and you can just like let them hear, you meet you see, you like have a conversation, they're going to fall in love right, I mean how could you not?
Speaker 1:Yes, so you just it's hard when you're over the phone, it's hard when you're over email, and so it's just finding the right person who's going to like take that opportunity to meet you, and then you just run with it.
Speaker 3:I think also just catching them when they're, like you said, struggling to fill a position, because I got in for my interview on August 5th I think it was, and they were starting school on August 24th, so it wasn't like they had time. And I think you do have to find somebody that's willing to take a leap for you, and that was the principle that I had that hired me. He was like I want to hire the right person, not the right person with the right degree, you know like. So I think that is something you can leverage too.
Speaker 1:The principle and I we joke all the time. We're like haha. I found you when you were desperate, like you had to take me Right. Now you want to keep me. And I think that's what matters, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Five years ago I don't think they would have looked twice at us, right, Like I don't think they would have even given another degree a chance, because they weren't struggling to find counselors and social workers like they are now. So I think if you can just strike while the iron is hot and go for it and really like, like I said, I went in knowing that maybe I only have a year to prove myself and then maybe maybe someone else with a little license where it's going to come in and want the job, I didn't know. So I think you just have to, you know, kind of go for it when, when they need it. So look for those job postings that have been there for a really long time.
Speaker 3:Honestly, and then take into consideration, though, that those places that have job openings for a really long time, you might be entering a place that is really difficult, whether that's a difficult culture to be in, whether that's difficult students that you're interacting with, but, like it's a challenge and it's, it's going to be fulfilling, no matter what. So I do have a lot of students that follow along and listen to this podcast, so what is one thing that you'd say to them as a tip for moving through this profession as a whole?
Speaker 1:I think that it's hard, it's really hard, but it's worth it. Right, like I got told, no a couple times before I was told yes.
Speaker 1:And so I think if you're passionate about it and you're going to put the work in, it will something will work for you, right. But then also it's okay If your quote unquote dream job doesn't end up to be your dream job, right, Like, just like I was going to retire in surgery and not obviously quite young and totally shifted gear. So I think we have a lot of transferable skills. I think that can work so many different places and I hope that this is just the start of child life in other settings. But that was something that I really struggled with and I think when people child life specialists are very passionate, so when they set their mind to something, right Like it's really hard to deal with. Like well, this isn't what I thought it was going to be or this isn't giving me what I need in return. So it's okay if your dreams shift over time.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's really beautiful. I like I love hearing that it's okay if your dreams shift over time, because that's yeah.
Speaker 1:It is. I mean, and I you know, like I would tell anybody that right Like.
Speaker 1:I think it's extremely rare to find you know something that you're interested in when you're like a junior in high school and then that's what you do for the rest of your life. Like that's crazy. And I think, now more than ever, we just see this. Like I think in all professions we just see this rapid movement of people in and out and things I mean we, I. There's more child life postings, job openings than I've ever seen before. It's a wild time but like it's okay. It's okay if you need a break, it's okay if you take your first job and you love it and you stay there forever. I mean that's okay, it's whatever. It's whatever it needs to be you know.
Speaker 3:Then the last question I have is if child life is a wildlife, what has been the wildest part of your experience so far?
Speaker 1:I so. So when I was doing my internship, I was at a hospital where it was a pediatric store in an adult hospital, so and the mascot like the hospital had a mascot and it was a mouse and bizarre, right, and so I will never forget I did my internship over the summer, so it is like Midwest hot right, and they're like Cassie, you are going to be the mouse for this, like press release. Oh no, I'm like this little intern who doesn't know anything, and so I'm like, yeah, anything right For like child life, you know, and I put this dang mouse like whole full body mascot thing. No, they all like sticking ice packs in, like I, like it was. It was probably a hundred degrees outside and then you put on this thing. It was like it was deadly, it was so terrible and they were opening up like a new unit and so like the, the news and the newspaper, like everybody was there and here I am and all of these photos as a mouse and I just like it was like humbling.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:Humbling and very comical and that was probably one of the funniest things. And I like when I worked with interns, I'm like, ha ha, we don't make anybody dress up in there in our mascot, that's mean. So that one just like cracks me up. But then I think honestly, I mean we talked about COVID and like just how it made us just do the weirdest things, right, like we were baristas, we were, I mean we just did these, like these odd jobs and I yeah, I don't know it was weird. I just we used to like all these people would donate food right For the families and for the nurses, but who's going to bring them around? Naturally, it's going to be child life right.
Speaker 1:So we're schlepping pizzas left and right, we're, I mean, amongst trying to also do our jobs with families and with kids or, you know, delivering coffees, and you know, I think it was just a weird time, but I think the mouse that might take the cake For sure. That's wild, so funny, so funny. There's even times like I have like looked at that press release and I'm like that's me in there, like I have shown multiple people, I'm like you guys, like that is me, like I promise you know, and they're like no way, I'm like yes, way.
Speaker 3:Take a look at this picture and find Cassie. Take a guess You're never going to guess. I'm the mouse.
Speaker 1:My husband when we first like started dating. He actually had that as like my photo in his phone. It was really nice.
Speaker 3:So, yep, oh, my goodness, cassie, thank you so much for being on the show and just chatting with me about what child life looks like for a six through 12 school. This was super fun for me because I just felt like I was talking to somebody that's doing the same thing. It was amazing. I don't get that very often, so thank you.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've been incredible through this whole process. We didn't get to talk a ton because we were both in the weeds of doing like crazy wild work, but just in like getting going and being a nice sounding board, like I always knew that I had someone else who was doing this work that I could touch base with. So I appreciate you, thank you, thank you.