34. Envisioning Fashion's Future with Made X Hudson

I’m SO excited about this interview, Sergio and Eric have done the incredible work of not just reinvisioning an industry in their heads, not just casting a better future for fashion, but turning that into a reality and creating a sustainable system within which others can pull from as well.

Made X Hudson is a sustainability-driven fashion company with a small-batch factory and two retail stores in New York’s Hudson Valley,
 
They share their journey of creating a unique, vertically integrated small batch atelier in Catskill and Hudson, New York. Tune in to learn how they bring manufacturing back to the States, training a new workforce, and maintaining a strong emphasis on ethical and sustainable practices.

Mentioned in this episode:
Made X Hudson
SNL Shein Skit
Suay in L.A. 
Mixed Color Monthly Stitch Membership (open  until August 8th) 

Transcript

Introduction

Host (Christi): [00:00:00] Welcome, Eric and Sergio. I would just want to start off for someone who's not familiar with their business. How could you describe how your company differs from a larger scale design company or manufacturer? 

Made X Hudson's Unique Approach

Eric: Yeah, so Madex Hudson is a small batch atelier with two retail shops in Catskill in Hudson, New York, and we're a little different than some other spaces, in the sense that we're vertically integrated, from early concept design, we can literally bring a napkin concept into a pattern, uh, into prototypes and, and production and, and sell it if you'd like.

And we're seeing some, maybe some other factories, , try to do this as well. Which is fine, and it's a good thing, , because we're trying to figure out how to bring manufacturing back to the states. A lot of it has been outsourced over the last few decades. We opened our shops to help fund training and development of a new workforce that, , disappeared over the last years.

, so it's helpful and they both serve each other and, you know, It really works nice and harmony and, and quite frankly, it's, it's hard to just do wholesale, in New York. It's one of the most expensive states to live in. So it wasn't really an option to just be, a factory. 

Sergio: Yeah, and anybody that comes through Madex Hudson, we try to educate them as best as possible to create sustainably and, as ethically as possible, , whether it's choosing their fabrications, where they're producing an ad, obviously we can produce, but sometimes For people that are more price conscious, if they decide to produce somewhere else, just knowing who's making your clothes.

And specifically in our facility, we don't throw away the clippings of the, uh, the manufacturing process, which I don't, I don't really know of another factory that doesn't do that. Um, usually that ends up in landfills. So that is something that definitely sets us apart from other manufacturing facilities in our country and around the world.

Host (Christi): I really love that. And I think too it sometimes costs money to get rid of, or to like sustainably get rid of the scraps, right? As opposed to throwing it away is free, but it costs money to recycle them. 

Eric: You do have to pay a small fee to recycle them. 

Host (Christi): Yeah,

 So I love the breadth of what you guys have going on. There's so much under the umbrella, um, that is made X Hudson. So 

Path to Launch

Host (Christi): what experiences of yours drove you to launching it? 

Eric: Yeah. Well, um, I've grown a few businesses over the years and so has Sergio. , so I was running an incubator in, in Hudson.

I still am. And I was connected through, someone in our program. , they connected me to Sergio and, um, Sergio has been a fashion designer for 20 years. You can talk more elaborately about [00:03:00] that experience and. He approached me to wanting to start a factory. I've had some background in design and manufacturing.

And so, um, you know, I thought at first it was a crazy expensive idea. I thought we would need to do like a huge capital campaign to, to do something. Um, but we managed to figure it out together, uh, and talk to a lot of people in the community. There was a lot of interest. We conducted a lot of workshops.

Um, it was online at the time during COVID. So we had a lot of attention of people, you know, peak COVID everybody was home and everybody wanted to like reimagine Hudson at that time. And there was a lot of ex fashion designers leaving corporate in the city and moving to the Hudson Valley and they needed help producing their own lines.

Um, so there was just a lot of serendipity and someone ultimately gave us their barn. In Leeds, New York, which is down the roads from Catskill to prototype a factory and we were able to hire, , a seamstress who came out of retirement. we brought in her sewing machines and we got started on our first project on, on day one of opening, uh, which was curtains for a pop up that was happening for Mara Hoffman in, in Hudson.

Um, and yeah, and this was really all Sergio's idea to get it started and he can talk more about. 

Sergio: Yeah, I've been in the industry a long time and tried. To help the industry transition to a more sustainable, ethical kind of future. But when you try to do it within the boundaries of the industry, because they're making so much money off of the bad things that they do, anybody that's bringing light to the issues or.

trying to champion the industry to transition, you're automatically viewed as like a threat to the entire industry. So I've just had a lot of bad experiences trying to participate within the fashion industry. So I just was kind of fed up with it. And I'm like, we need to do something completely not connected to the industry and reimagine like What this thing needs to be for the future and, and show people that this should be the standard and not like an anomaly in the Hudson Valley.

And this should be something that we should. have conversations and empower people. And, um, we've helped so many people, um, that have come through like the Madex Hudson system, open up stores, start their lines, and just get people moving their minds in the path of creating sustainably and ethically.

Host (Christi): That's incredible. I mean, I think I, yeah, I really see what you're saying about trying to change a system from the inside. That's like really just starting over entirely. 

Training and Development

Host (Christi): So through that, did you have to train people? Like, were you able to find seamstresses? I know you said that the one seamstress you took out of retirement, um, was there a lot [00:06:00] of like sewing training going on or?

Eric: Yes. That's an understatement. And mind you, we started this as a nonprofit thinking that, Oh, we can probably get. Grant funding because we're bringing manufacturing back to America, and we thought we could really galvanize people because we were getting like a lot of support in the community. Um, and we were a little, maybe naive at that time that the government actually cared about that because the government stops.

investing in garment manufacturing decades ago, and they basically washed their hands of it. So, um, that was another reason to turn to a for profit because we were able to sort of self fund in a way. Um, and we've just been reinvesting in the business and that reinvestment goes towards training and development because we're largely taking people out of like home sewing into a production context.

And, um, and, You know, a lot of people realize, you know, they're really eager to start, but they may be creative and what they may learn is that production is not very creative. We try to keep it very interesting. And like, we're always doing new projects and it's pretty dynamic. But at the end of the day, you're, you are doing a bit of repetition.

And so, um. takes a while to identify those folks who really enjoy that and find that a meditative practice in a way. So it's like a personality thing as well. Um, and yeah, now we're really starting to solidify our team after all these years, , and identifying folks who, , even come from that background, uh, because.

Community and Economic Impact

Eric: Yeah. We're now meeting another interesting turning point in New York history, where, you know, first we're dealing with Covid and now we're dealing with a migrant crisis. And so, , we're working with the Department of Labor to employ people who are actually working in factories outside the country. And so they're coming with a background.

So that's immensely helpful. They honestly can get paid more than a trainee because they, uh, manufacturing, it's all about speed. So it's a good job. It's like a win win where we can help them resettle up here. Um, help mitigate, the crisis in New York City. 

Sergio: Yeah. 

Host (Christi): Yeah. 

Sergio: Support people in the community that do you have the personality.

To want to be able to manufacture products because it's it's not an if you're a creative person that likes to so that's not enough to be able to be a person in the line sewing products like that's kind of the complete opposite, unfortunately, and we started out with a lot of creative people that light.

sewing for fun and they come in for three months and we teach them so much like a lot of them actually have started their own businesses and they've almost treated this like, like a training service for advanced sewing. So we get kind [00:09:00] of have run the gamut of the types of people, but we also provide education if community members just want to stick to having fun.

We have sewing classes that are very attainable, and then we also have knitting and crocheting courses that are absolutely free to the community. 

Eric: Yeah, we didn't, not to say we wanted to like give up on the community, and it's really the opposite. With opening the shops, we've really engaged the community more, and that was always part of the Project roadmap.

We just couldn't do that. When we first launched, we needed to get the factory running right. But it's been really exciting to work with interns. Um, like our second hire was actually a young woman who was a senior at the Catskill high school. Um, she was super talented and she applied to our job, saying she had 10 years of experience and I was like, that was worrisome.

Um, but she said she was sewing with her mom, her whole youth and she was. She's been super great. And she worked with Sergio and Sergio helped her with her portfolio for FIT. And so now she's in her second or third year at FIT and comes back every summer to work with us. And everybody who's come through has been super talented and it's just like finding out if it's the right fit or not. People learn like, oh, maybe they maybe build their confidence to want to actually start their own brand once they master what we teach them. So it's been a good symbiotic relationship with the community and with the retail we're We're doing a lot of events, um, like clothing swaps and, you know, knittings meetups.

So really want to engage people and teach them more about what the process of making is and what it entails and why our clothes are more expensive than H and M. 

Sergio: Yeah. The true cost of what making a garment actually is and, and letting, and showing people like, If something's five dollars, you're probably doing a lot of damage to the planet and, and to your fellow human somewhere else, if it's not like a, a vintage find or a thrifted something or other.

So we, we're kind of like connecting all of these pieces together and it's such a, an immense problem that we're trying to solve with what we do. Um, and it's so multifaceted, like. We're always tired. 

Host (Christi): Yeah, I can, I can't imagine having that many different elements running in one business at one time that kind of work together with one another.

Yeah, they're not separate elements, but they are, they require separate, Managing and we're 

Eric: still perfecting it. We've finally been able to hire someone to help us with marketing part time and that's been immensely helpful to have that outside perspective and help [00:12:00] refine our messaging and copy because we've done so much because it's been it's expensive to do what we're doing.

Um, and Wanting to give back it's but at the same time we couldn't imagine doing this anywhere else. Being in this area is Really great for us just being slightly removed from the city, but also connected to the city You have a lot of people who move through our space who understand what we're doing.

We don't have to do too much heavy lifting and then You know something we're really excited about As a small company, we are part of the New York Fashion Innovation Center, which is a 10 million grant issued by the governor.

, it's go running through RPI, Rensselaer Polytech Institute, which is out of Troy. It's an engineering school. , but there's six of us on that program, including FIT and the Hudson Valley Textile Project. And a lot of really great people, and it's been amazing to connect on a state level around this conversation.

And the grant is all about bringing sustainable textiles back to New York state. New York state used to be the 2nd largest producer of wool, so Hudson Valley textile project is a big part of the grant recipients. We did a project with them. So we were invited into this grant through them. Um, so there's a new effort now to figure out what textiles we can make in New York, whether they're plant based, uh, animal or, um, maybe even lab grown.

You know, I was just talking to Ecovative out of Troy the other day about their new mushroom leather samples, which are exciting. Um, so very, very early stage. And You know, we'll we're light years away from competing with textile mills around the world, but, um, we're starting 

Sergio: to set it up correctly and that's a huge thing that.

Like, sustainable sustainability is really the focus around transitioning this new system or taking a seed. Or a byproduct of something, and then creating a final product that you can say was grown, processed and created in New York state. And really creating an ecosystem around that kind of mantra to bring something back, but in the new responsible and ethical way, which is great that we have the opportunity to be participating in that.

Host (Christi): Yeah, that's beautiful. And do, uh, have you been working with any New York State wool fabrics at all? Has that, has that, like, because I know it's a lot to kind of shift a whole system. Um, has that come to fruition at all? 

Eric: Yeah. Well, one of our first projects was with Hudson Valley Textile Project, , with two of their members.

 They grew the wool and then they wove it and they asked us to design a bucket hat. And so we designed the pattern for that and, sewed it up. So it was a whole product that was grown, woven, designed, and sewn in the Hudson Valley. So we can do [00:15:00] more products like that. It can be done. Yeah. Yeah.

Host (Christi): Have you done any plant based fibers out of curiosity? Just because that just takes so much more, um, industrial effort. 

Sergio: Hemp is kind of the next field that we're trying to transition to. It's one of the plants that we can create into a textile that you can grow in the Hudson Valley. Like, we can't grow cotton here or any other type of textile plant, so they're growing it.

in Troy with the mushroom kind of leather. So it's still in its infancy in terms of like getting all of these pieces together, but there's enough people out there doing the right things that are coming together, creating this new system, but it's going to take a while. 

Host (Christi): Right. Well, and hemp at this point as a fiber, could, could that be a by product?

Of the cannabis industry or is that sorry? I'm like, I'm just curious. It's a 

Sergio: different plant. It's a different 

Host (Christi): plant. Okay. Got it. 

Sergio: The, the, the 1 that they turn into garments is a different type of hemp than the marijuana plant. Okay. And it's actually really hard to process. It, we're kind of retraining all of the farmers to even be able to process, to grow and process hemp because it's been outlawed for so long.

The technology and like the know how of doing that. It's kind of reteaching. We're reteaching everybody everything. 

Host (Christi): Yeah. 

Sergio: So it's really, unfortunately, not that efficient, but we're, that's where we're kind of at is redoing all of this entire system, which is beautiful because we can do it the right way.

Yeah. But it's going to take some time. 

Eric: It's also going to take conversation with conversations with farmers to convince them to grow hemp and, you know, making sure that whole supply chain is set up so that it's successful. So there's so many components to get into place, um, because there was an initiative, um, at some points, you give money to farmers to grow hemp, but then there was like no one to process it.

And, you know, You know, weave it into fabric. So, um, there's a lot, but what I'm excited about the, the grant that we're on, we don't get money really from it. Um, we're, we're more like small consultants and. But it's going to, we're going to be giving out that money and as awards to small businesses who are working on these things.

And, you know, I think what's interesting about this new world of manufacturing is that it's going to be a lot of smaller makers around the state, like these little dye houses and, and that's how we're going to build by basically in a grassroots effort in working in community. That's going to be the only way to really.

Get this off the ground. And yeah, we could recruit a hemp decorticator company from Europe, um, [00:18:00] but you know, it's like a whole thing. We're still in our early days of figuring out what's going to be the best strategy to rebuild this economy. 

Sergio: But it's going to be all focused around community, which that's where, unfortunately, a lot of capital minded, directed businesses and the way that people think.

It's just like fast, cheap, and whatever comes out, comes out, and we're kind of reimagining what this entire system looks like, where you're, you're starting the opposite, and you're starting with people first. Um, and they, that never really is a part of the spreadsheets, and like, the, all of the things of how people, like, go towards business is, there's, people are never in that conversation, unfortunately.

Thanks. 

Host (Christi): Yeah, and I think that speaks so much to what, what is sustainability when we really think about it. Is it just using organically grown cotton that grew somewhere in India that we know nothing about, and then used every other system exactly the same way that we always have, like extractive systems, or is it figuring out how to actually be sustainable at it?

So I love that you're also teaching the community, too, about sewing, and offering classes and these events and everything that really um, communicate, not just working, working within the community, working at a community level, and then also inviting. other community members in. Um, that's really beautiful.

Made x Reworked Line

Host (Christi): Um, can you tell us a little bit about Madex Reworked? I feel like that also kind of blends in a little community there. 

Eric: It does that spawned out of our clothing swaps that we do every season change where people come with their clothes and pay 15 to swap out for a new wardrobe, and they're hugely popular.

We organize those and then we had a lot of leftover clothes and we turn them into different piles. So there was ones that. Um, could be donated to our friends at like Thrift A Fight who are in Tivoli, their social justice thrift store. 

Sergio: You need to interview them. 

Eric: Yeah, they're great. Um, and then there's like white pieces that are stained and they wouldn't be great for donation, but we would take those and naturally dye them.

And so that. Became our made X reworked line where things we they're basically upcycled. Um, and then some things we would maybe turn into crop tops to give them a new life or if it was maybe a dated style, we would like re engineer the garment to make it look more modern. So just giving these garments a second life.

Um, because also these donation centers are Overflowing with clothes, so it ended 

Sergio: up in the oceans. Unfortunately. Yeah. So we just try to keep things out of the landfill and. We also, sustainability when you're producing it from you is expensive, so this also gives the community that maybe does [00:21:00] not have the resources to participate in something new that's sustainably created, that they can participate for 15 in sustainability, getting a new wardrobe from someone else.

And then we take care of the items on the back end and making sure something's being done correctly. Either we're reselling them and our rework is probably the most affordable kind of component of Madex Hudson. So we're really trying to make sustainability attainable for all communities. 

Host (Christi): And how do you, I guess, who decides what's going to happen to the pieces that are reworked? Is that like a few different sewers decide, or is it sort of communally decided? 

Sergio: Sometimes of what we're doing, what with, sometimes we have interns playing with some of the styles too.

So it, sometimes it's educational. Sometimes we're just having fun with them and. It just depends on how much time we have also to be able to dedicate towards things. So, , yeah, all of this stuff requires a lot of time. We just, we work every day, all day, to try to really push this forward, , and transition this system.

, it's really beautiful to see. There are very few other examples of it and it's such a scope. , so how do you deal with challenges and materials like anything, any leftover scraps that, you know, you said you don't trash them.

Host (Christi): How do you deal with different scales of scraps, I guess? 

Sergio: So we, we are selling some of our larger pieces of leftovers in our, we have this beautiful craft wall that we have, , where somebody can create their own style. , and we provide the tools there. We have leftover fabrics. We turn it into pillow stuffings.

And now part of our, the food component that we have down in our cafe, we are using some of the textiles. to close the packaging, , of sandwiches and pastries and everything. So it's really cool. 

Host (Christi): Fun. 

Eric: A lot of it goes to fab scrap in the city. Nice. So, and it's good that other small houses in the Garment District are using them as well.

So, 

Sergio: yeah, students, , the next generation is a lot more educated in sustainability, so sometimes we do give students our scrap piles and then they create things for their projects or different things, so there's plenty of places things can go, , as you're creating. 

Organizing Multi-Faceted Operations

Host (Christi): So the next, I'm just asking this as a business owner, you have so many services available, not just manufacturing, but you do design development, you do photo shoots, screen printing, um, you even do sourcing for interiors.

How are you able to organize all of these different elements? And especially when they do work together in tandem, like you would do [00:24:00] design development that might follow into production and screen printing. Yeah. What do you use for organizing? That's Eric. 

Eric: I'm project manager. Sergio is too. You know, Sergio leads the production room, which is a whole beast in itself.

Um, and then we also have Cade on our team who helps, uh, build out our, our stores and it helps run them and merchandise them. So yeah, 

Host (Christi): I didn't even mention the stores, which are gorgeous. 

Eric: Yeah. So we have a good size team. We're around, you know, Six to eight people we want to grow. We're, we're growing right now.

So to help organize things more, it basically started out like for one client was asking us to do their clothing line and then they're opening up the store so they needed help making bags, shoes and, you know, Sourcing mannequins. So it just naturally evolved. And we have a great network of photographers who help us with photo shoots.

So we've been through the years. We just built up our network of really great local creatives as well who work with us as well. So it's not just us doing all that. , but we know how to do it. You know, put the right photographer on the right projects. We're really lucky to live in the Hudson Valley again, because we're around a lot of talent.

Host (Christi): Yeah. So again, it's just the playing off the community and really supporting the community and having that involvement. It's beautiful. 

Eric: Definitely. 

Host (Christi): Yeah. 

Personally Excited About?

Host (Christi): What are you right now most excited about in the business? I'll ask each of you individually.

Eric: Well, we mentioned. The grant and being involved at state level is really important and and being more vocal on a policy level. Um, right now, we're doing a little photo shoot for our cafe. So, I think we're really excited to go downstairs and get food since we basically live in our building. So, that's going to be nice.

Like, we're going to be open 7 days a week now. And so that feels really good about activating Catskill because. Hudson Valley towns are notoriously closed, um, Monday, Tuesday. Um, so we're really trying to push to transform that. So there's a lot of things we're excited about, but food is great. 

Sergio: Yeah.

Good components. I don't know. I think transitioning an entire ecosystem of the fashion industry is really something that I, that we're both very passionate about. And that people want this. And that it's happening, even with the state now providing some sort of support because people have been vocal on, on all of these issues.

So I'm just interested or happy to see that the future is going to be so many beautiful, like, companies and designers and everything and we're getting rid of all the gatekeeping and all the [00:27:00] pollution and all the way that people are treated within the industry because we're setting up this new system, which I'm very excited about.

It's it's going to be something very beautiful. Amazing. 

Eric: Yeah, it's really cool to see even the vendors that we have in our store, they're opening up their own shops and we're, it's all in support of each other and we're all helping each other and creating these like micro economies. Um and consumers are getting more and more aware of that buying local or vintage or reworked is better than going to H and M, , or Zara, , It's funny.

It's funny that SNL just made, I don't know if you saw the latest SNL, but they did a little, uh, jab at like people buying Sheen and like, people were like, I have all the actors wearing like 5 clothes. And they're like, but how does this get made? And like, they're questioning it. But at the end they're like, but I'm still going to buy it.

Um, so. I think it's getting out of that mentality. Like consumers really have to rethink buying this fast fashion or it's crazy. Like, I don't, I don't know how you do buy a 5 garment and don't think about how that was made. Right. And do the, do the 

Host (Christi): math on like, how much fabric did this take up? 50 percent of it goes to the company and 50 percent of it goes to the manufacturer, which means 25 percent of that, maybe is the sewing.

So that's a dollar 

Eric: shipping. Yeah. 

Host (Christi): Yeah. Oh, and all the other. Yeah, exactly. 

Eric: You know, even we partner with a factory in Mexico for certain productions because it's regionally sustainable and they could do greater capacity and things that we can't, but it's still expensive with the shipping. It almost. It's not necessarily worth it.

Um, so it's going to be harder and harder. Um, all the systems breaking down. 

Sergio: Yeah. And what people don't understand is when you buy something from somewhere else, you're shipping all of your economic power to another part of the world and you're kind of taking away from your own community when you do that so even if something costs a little bit more that money is still cycling through your community where if you shop at those places your money's and nobody's caring about the back end for you.

, you're actually kind of like investing against your future. That is, that's it. You're investing against your future. Is really just kind of mind boggling that we can still make people are still making decisions like that.

Host (Christi): Um, 

The Vision for Sustainable Manufacturing

Host (Christi): I recently have been really mulling over this phrase. There's a new book title by Ayanna Johnson, who's a marine biologist and climate conservation strategist. The book is titled What if we get it right? And that, like, really stood out to me as I was reading, um, everything on your webpage and hearing what, [00:30:00] what you stand for, um, what if we can, you know, say, what if we can collectively create change successfully, um, and as much as I feel like your dream vision is basically the company that you are creating now, but in a, in a greater way, um, could you describe a dream vision for a better future for American manufacturing, how, how that would look on an even greater scale, um, sort of like, Illustrate for us how we could make it even better.

Eric: Yeah. Well, we always thought we wanted to build a model that could be replicated and we don't have to be the people to do it. , there's plenty of great and talented people who could take our model and do it in their community. , I guess I think it's sway is one in California. They've been doing a really great job of really becoming an exemplary model of And then there's, , some other great shops around the country.

So, , I think that's the vision is like more, more small scale places because we can all specialize and do different things differently. And there's room for it. , And it feels, it feels good. Even myself, I've shifted the way I consume and buy things. And once people get that shift, they don't go back to the malls.

Like I don't really buy stuff at the mall anymore. You know, you, it's just getting people in this water and more comfortable and understanding things like that's, that's the vision, I think. 

Sergio: Yeah. And, and something big that we've learned when we were going through the pandemic is that when we needed certain things, in our country, and we figured out we don't need anything.

We couldn't even get masks. So that's like a huge red flag for our country, that in the future, if something else were to arise, where we had, we have to be more independent, We have to kind of plan for that in the future. Um, and if we can show the rest of the world that there's a way to do it correctly and nobody's getting taken advantage of, why can't they replicate that model?

Host (Christi): Yeah. I, I really appreciate the way that you speak about that. The idea is like no more gatekeepers. It's like, we can all share it. It's not, it's not this idea that like we made this company and we're going to do it our way. And nobody can know the secrets of the company because that doesn't work for anybody.

And. If anything, you're like, yes, please knock us off, you know, in another town, in another community that really needs it. Um, and yeah. Um, so how can people learn more and get involved in support made at Hudson? 

Eric: Yeah, well, they could sign up for our newsletter on our website. Um, we keep people up to date with what we're doing.

[00:33:00] Um, if they're local, come visit the shops, or if you're not, people do travel to come see our shops. They're a lot of fun. Um, and yeah, reach out. We always encourage people to email us, uh, to want to collaborate, uh, and do things we sell mostly local designers, but we're incorporating a Others from around the world that we, that we like and share our values, but we mostly want to represent Hudson Valley designers at the end of the day, um, in our shops.

Um, so, but if you're a maker and want to do something, we're always down for collaboration. And that's why we called it made X Hudson. And a lot of people call us made Hudson or made by, but it's really made X. And the X is really about collaboration and partnership.

Host (Christi): Amazing. Is there anything else you guys want to add? Talk about before we, 

Sergio: we do alterations 

Host (Christi): next. Oh, another thing I was wondering is, do you ever have any people who were employees? Maybe like, they got some of the training and then they ended up starting their own company and coming through. Or is that like a common?

Yeah, 

Sergio: yeah. How many people have started stores coming through here? 

Eric: Yeah, a handful, either between the production or the shops, you know, there's probably been six studios, six or seven studios that launched or relaunched after working with us. So that's, that's cool to see. 

Sergio: Yeah, within the Hudson Valley, like they started their own stores.

And started providing their own products, which is amazing. 

Eric: And, you know, we have this great size inclusive brand out of Schenectady, who's been testing her product in our shop. And she gets a lot of, we give her a lot of feedback, um, and which styles sell better, um, like, uh, feedback about the grading, which is how the sizing is done.

Um, so people, we really want to. Our designers, because it is a cost to sell, uh, in a shop, right? You're giving some money back to the shop and that's hard where you're doing small batch, but they're getting a lot of good market research from being a part of it. So it's, it works out. Um, and they get sales outside of us cause people learn about them.

So, um, definitely encourage small designers to work with local shops so they can get their product out there more and get feedback on it. 

Host (Christi): Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think of wholesale. It's like the cut that you take from wholesale is like, you're basically, it's a cut for your marketing that you would have had to do for it, you know, a cut for getting some customer interaction with it.

And it's just like, it's just kind of a part of a whole system of a company. 

Eric: Yeah, it sometimes hurts, hurts to sell it wholesale, but it, it gives back to you more because it's brand awareness and that's hard to, to build, especially these days when meta is totally crushing small businesses. Um, [00:36:00] it's harder and harder to get organic reach.

So, 

Sergio: yeah, you have to build the community out yourself. Cause if you rely on even technology, like they're so focused on. Like their, their quarterly profits. That they will run over any and everybody and whoever's paying them the most money, that's who wins the game for them. And that's not how the system should be run.

Host (Christi): Yeah, totally. I have seen so many, especially somehow this past year, more than ever seen so many small businesses that are like, I just can't, function as a business anymore without having that, , element that was so relied upon. , so I think that's a really good tip for people to take is to really build up your actual community, not just the internet community, but physically the people who are, who are around you.

Sergio: Yeah. Interact with your, the people that, yeah, live around you and, and empower your community. Like, I think that's the thing that we're going to, we're going to learn very hard for the future is like, We need to count on the people around us and it's, it's great to support people that are across the planet, but do it in a way where we're not taking advantage of them.

Host (Christi): Yeah. And I also think. I just personally worry sometimes when companies pop up a lot and they say, Oh, we're doing our manufacturing here. And we've started this whole manufacturing unit in India. And then actually that didn't work anymore a year later. Okay. Now we're going to go, um, and start a company and doing this other thing and really just dropping the ball on these systems that have been built up to support a single company.

 With no ability to shift as you pivot as easily as the owners of the company have. 

Sergio: Yeah, and then you destroy communities. I mean, if you look at the Hudson Valley, we had hundreds and hundreds of manufacturing centers around here. There's not any left from that time period. And up until a few years ago, you could see.

Before people started migrating back into this communities, how dilapidated they were, nobody was taking care of them because businesses decided to open up, do whatever little orderly thing that they were trying to pump out of the community, and then they bounced without even giving second thought of all the people they were leaving behind and taking advantage of.

So it, it, it, the system needs to change for sure. 

Host (Christi): Definitely. Well, thank you both so much, um, for meeting with me and just having this discussion. I'm sure people who are makers, um, sewists and, um, and also just general business owners or people who are interested in sustainability, I think can really gain a lot from this conversation.

So I thank you both for your time. And, um, yeah, I highly recommend everyone go check out Madex Hudson. Um, I was walking by, that's, I found it because I was walking through Catskill. I had never heard of it before and I saw it from across the street and it was like 20 degrees outside and just like sideways wind blowing.

I was like, no, we have to go there. I have to go see this shop. It looks incredible from [00:39:00] the window. And I was even more amazed when I was actually inside to learn about how everything was made, um, through, through Madex just like, Really spoke to my spoke to my heart. So thank you for what you're doing.

And thank you for sharing all of that with us. 

Eric: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us.