Strengthening Client Relations for Investment Success

Ever wondered how to transition from a basic property manager role to a successful investment management expert? Join us in an eye-opening conversation with Hayley Bartels, a resilient single mother who began her career in property management at just 23 and quickly rose through the ranks to lead the property management department at McGrath Launceston. 

This episode isn't just about career progression; it's a masterclass in elevating property management services. We discuss Hayley's transition from traditional property management roles to adopting an investment management mindset, inspired by observing commercial agents. Learn practical strategies for maximizing your efficiency and adding value to your clients, from proactive communication to leveraging digital tools for enhanced productivity. Hayley highlights the importance of building strong relationships with property owners and tenants, emphasizing that going beyond the basics is essential for standing out in a competitive market.

Finally, we delve into the significance of mastering the fundamentals while continuously "leveling up" your skills. Hayley shares insights on how efficient task management and strategic communication can free up time for proactive problem-solving and relationship building. We also discuss the necessity of adapting to industry changes and the importance of mentorship and continuous learning. Tune in to discover how you can elevate your property management game, improve investor experiences, and ensure long-term success in your career. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:21

Hi everyone. Today we have another property manager joining us for a chat, and her name's Hayley Hayley.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Welcome, hey thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:32

Now what's a little bit different. Normally I do a little bit more prep work, but I know nothing about you and I am really excited to learn a little bit more about you and your property management career, along with the rest of our listeners. So I love doing it this way because it means that I get to sort of like just you know, discover things and talk to different people and do it at the same pace that the listeners are. So that's really cool. So if I ask lots of questions, if the listeners who are listening to this episode hear me asking lots of questions, it's because I haven't spoken or met Hayley before and I'm excited to chat. So welcome Hayley. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your career and where you are now and where you were before a little bit about yourself and your career and where you are now and where you were before.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Perfect, so I'm Kayleigh Bartels. I'm currently at McGrath, launceston, which is in Tassie. I joined the McGrath team about three and a half months ago after being at another agency for two years prior to that, and there I had, I guess, started with only six months experience at my last agency and really developed my role within two years to, I guess, being able to move into the position now as running the department here at McGrath-Lonseston. I'm a single mum of two little kids. I'm 27, so I'm still pretty young in the game and I've only been in the industry for about four years now.

Speaker 2: 2:05

But I've come in with this perspective that a lot of property managers in my market aren't leveling up to where I think we need to be and, as people who are representing our owners and our clients and managing these assets for them, I think a lot of property managers in my market particularly we're just. I don't think they realise that there's a whole other layer that I think we need to all be bringing, and I think that's why I'm here to speak today. I think it's more as an encouragement for property managers to understand the dynamic and understand that there is always more that we can learn and more, more places to grow, so don't feel that you need to get comfortable okay, so let's just go back to uh in the industry for four years.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Who started at 23? Did you go into the business in like reception, or straight into property management? What?

Speaker 2: 3:04

did that look like? Sorry? I actually started at a really small mum and dad agency. I was coming off maternity leave, it was, it was shorter hours and pretty soon I realized this is where I want to be. I'd look, I'd actually entered the industry because I knew I was soon becoming a single parent and getting a rental was going to be really tricky. So I actually entered the industry for that reason. But I knew that place wasn't where I wanted to be because I knew there wasn't going to be the growth for me because it had never been there and yeah, it was just wasn't the right place. So I moved to another agency after just three months and I was. That's where I got got life.

Speaker 2: 3:42

I was actually doing sales admin originally and I moved to another agency, um, where I spent just six months there doing property management and I learned I'm actually really good at this. I've got the right dynamic of life skills. I've previously worked in sales and marketing um and, you know, had a lot of life experience for my age. I've moved out of home at 15 and things like. So I knew this is what I'm going to do, but I can't do it here because this isn't the right environment for me. There wasn't an education environment, there wasn't a best way environment.

Speaker 2: 4:15

And I'd reached out to a friend who was a really successful property manager in Launceston and I said, hey, I'm going to come work with you. And he was like, oh, what? We haven't spoken in five years. Hey, how are you? I was like, I'm great, but I'm going to come work with you. And I did. I started with him a month later and that's where I'd spent the last two years. So yeah, I kind of just I knew what it was going to be for me and I just needed to find the right, had the environment to flourish.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Yeah, I mean. So the there's two things I think, um, and. And. Not that we ever encourage single parents, but because property management is very much a female-driven industry, there is a lot of single parents and I think and you know me being sort of one of them as well but it's one of those industries where we're so lucky that we can diversify and actually have a really great flexible career. So it's um for me, like it's always provided good stability from that point of view, because you've got casual, part-time, full-time options. But the other thing I think and clearly this comes through with you is that there's two types of property managers. There's the property managers that don't like, love it, but do it, you know, as a job. But then there are so many people in my network of property managers are very entrepreneurial and you clearly have that. And do you think and I've had this discussion with a few people do you think that that's just something that people either have or don't have, or do they grow into that? What's your thoughts on the entrepreneurial side of property management?

Speaker 2: 5:50

I think so. I think they either have it or they've got it somewhere and they haven't uncovered it. So when I had reached out to this friend saying I'm going to come work with you, I was actually at this crossroads. I've been doing real estate for eight months it wasn't a long time but I just I wasn't getting what I needed out of it and I just I knew there was more, and it was either I was going to leave the industry and just go back and do an admin role doing something, or I was going to really make this work.

Speaker 2: 6:16

And and that's when he was like all right, we're going to make this work for you, we're going to figure out what you're good at. We're going to make this work for you. We're going to figure out what you're good at. We're going to figure out how we can maximize this for you, because there's so much more than just doing the property management. But what you can learn from real estate and from property management is going to set you up for the rest of your life. And I needed to do that. I had just bought and sold property in a bad breakup. I was in this position where I wanted to get into the thick of it and I needed to have the tools to do so, and I think people either have it or they don't have it, but the people who have it might not know they have it yet. That makes sense.

Speaker 1: 6:53

Yeah, yeah and that, or they haven't been given the opportunity or they've got a bit of imposter syndrome about doing that as well, Absolutely. So there's a few reasons, imposter syndrome about doing that as well. So there's a few reasons. I mean, I've never had anyone regret, you know, advancing in their careers. So for those that are sort of sitting and feeling like maybe they, you know, they've got this, something that's just like ticking in their brain about wanting to do the next step, you know this is probably a really great listen for you. So you've gone. So you've done. You know this is probably a really great listen for you. So you've gone. So you've done your property. You've done your bit of sales, you've gone into the property management. How did you go, like, how did you go from property manager to department manager? What happened with events to create that? You know, move into that role.

Speaker 2: 7:39

So pretty early into you know, my time at my last agency I was, they could see this ambition within me and I had this great relationship with who was my department manager at the time and he kind of just sparked this, you know, this drive in me and he just he kept encouraging me to do a little bit more and we had created this really great dynamic where he was growing and building the business and I was helping him with a lot of the, I guess, the admin side of things, because that's what I would naturally lean towards. It was something you know I like numbers and I'm really data driven, so, and he was a great people person, so it was it kind of worked into this collaboration where we were helping each other grow and he was new to department manager as well, so it had worked really well and I I was really lucky to. After about eight months at that agency, the REB awards came around and he nominated me for property manager of the year regional and I actually got it and I was only in the industry for a year. So that was pretty, that was pretty big and I had the imposter syndrome. I was like this is not that big, like you know. And then I kind of started looking into it and I was like there's only been very few Tasmanian agents who have got it and they're incredible people. Tamika Smith, for example. She'd won it once and she's an amazing inspiration to look up to in Tassie real estate. So it kind of made me realize, with this is what I'm doing and I'm going to do it really, really well.

Speaker 2: 9:05

And I think at that point I started to unravel the different layers of property management and the different layers that I'd already been doing, but without realizing they were next steps. So at the time I worked in an agency that was also very commercial driven. So I had been absorbing this information from our commercial agents who were doing full financial data control. They were doing projections for the year, they were asset managers and I had realized the way that they were operating was very different to how many property managers were operating. They were just reactive, they were just handling the admin, but they weren't fostering these investments.

Speaker 2: 9:47

And I think that's where I kind of turned to I'm not going to be a property manager, I'm going to be an investment manager, I'm going to manage your investment. Yes, I can do all of the good, all of the day-to-day and do it incredibly well Manage your re-use, manage inspections. You know, have that really down pat, but now I'm ready to manage their investment and I think that that really prepared me to, you know, move into a position where I was more challenged. I did have to be more people focused as well. I got to get back out there in front of people again and that's something I started to miss. I was so good at doing the management side of portfolio and training new staff and just being, you know, really focused in the office. I was ready to be myself again and I had that confidence behind me. Now that I can do this job really well, let's show people how well I can do it and start to, yeah, be me again.

Speaker 1: 10:43

And it's a funny thing because you might have experienced times where, like you're, you know, doing a really good job, but you sort of just assume, doesn't everyone do it this way, and then you quickly realise that no, like it is something special that you're doing. Have you noticed that?

Speaker 2: 11:00

I did and actually I got to that point in my office we had a team of five and it was after I won this award and I was really hyped up about it and I actually started to feel there was a little bit of conflict because I was Hayley just does it well. Hayley just does it really easily. Hayley doesn't have any arrears, hayley doesn't have any lease renewals, hayley doesn't have any maintenance outstanding. Hayley's got this free time, hayley's learning how to be an accounts manager now doing all the trust accounting, and Hayley's training other people and Hayley's doing BDM.

Speaker 2: 11:31

And people were getting really mad and I was like, well, you could do that too. And I was like I started to feel guilty and hide my success. And I had somebody say you don't need to ever hide your success, it's not your fault that you're just succeeding. And and I think that was where it started to tick for me that maybe I needed to look for my next challenge, which was an environment and building an environment where people wanted to level up, you know, and not get stuck in doing the monogamous day-to-day of arrears, and you know yeah, did you go to Sarah and Hermione's summit, pm summit or BDM summit?

Speaker 2: 12:15

No, I didn't, and I wasn't at a point where I could go, because I wasn't a BDM at my last agency. I was just. I wasn't even a senior property manager, I was just a property manager, um, and I I wasn't able to actually take on a lot of these opportunities, um, but something that I had had learned pretty early on was look for opportunities. So that's what I did, um, and yeah, the principal of the agency, I might now reached out. Um, and yeah, and yeah, the principal of the agency, I'm at now reached out. And yeah, we just aligned really well when I was like I'm going to take this jump.

Speaker 1: 12:45

So yeah, they talk a lot in their comments about like leveling up, and when I spoke there a few weeks ago we were I was doing a session on the investor, like annual audits, and it is interesting because I had a little bit of imposter syndrome because in my mind I was sort of thinking like doesn't everyone do this?

Speaker 1: 13:07

And like this can't be something that I've just started doing and no one else is doing, like surely everyone else is, and they actually aren't. And I had a lot of messages afterwards and what was interesting was someone had said, actually said to me I always thought annual like investor checks um were when I just did the rent review and I was like well, no, there's actually a lot more involved with it. Very much what you're talking about being an investment manager, that's what we're doing, um. But it's one thing that I did say at this event was that we clients come into our business with their cup half full and so when you were doing maintenance, rent arrears, doing inspections, no matter how good you were doing them, you were doing exactly what you're getting paid for and yeah, or nothing less, and you're not even like and as horrible as this less. And you're not even like and as horrible as this sounds, you're not doing anything special, like you're just doing what you're paid for, the bare minimum, the expectation.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Yeah, correct, and I always liken it into a personal relationship. It's like if you are in a relationship and that person is being honest and kind and faithful, they're not being an amazing partner. They're doing exactly what they're meant to be doing, and that's the difference which I'm trying to explain to people. That does not make them an amazing partner, just like you. It doesn't make you an amazing property manager because you do your job. So we need to start thinking about, like, what that next layer is, which is exactly sort of what I've been talking about. So, like, what do you think is missing in terms of like? Do you have any ideas, or maybe something you're doing in your team where it is that leveling up, that something extra that the minority is sort of doing to level up their services and really start exceeding in our careers?

Speaker 2: 15:03

yeah, so something I started doing it was last financial year when I was at my last agency I sent out and an end of financial year email to all of my all of my property owners and it had how much they purchased the house from for how much you know one of our agents had appraised it for in the current market. So working with your sales team, I think, is the biggest thing that you can do, because they have so much knowledge and you have so much knowledge to share with them as well. So collaborate. Like you know, I just as a little side note I don't track my gross properties in my rent roll because I am here ready to help my investors then make their next step by selling. So if, if my sales team are taking my properties, go for it, you're doing your job and I'm doing my job as well because I'm getting it investment ready.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Um, so yeah, so sending out an interfinancial year email that has you know how much they sold, how much they could sell the property for, any expected outgoings for the year. So by that point I would have received all of the rates, notice installments for the next year, projected water rates for the year, um, projected, you know, their insurance covers come through any strata fees or anything like that. Having all of that ready and just on a quick table what the net is going to be at the end of my expected net the the end of financial year, and ensuring we have a little bit of a buffer, if needed, you know, holding $1,000 just in the trust if needed to, you know, for emergency maintenance and stuff like that, because then they're getting you know their net straight away and preparing them for what it's going to be, so they can look at that for the rest of the year and know how much you know profit they're going to be making and if we need to make adjustments.

Speaker 1: 16:41

Yeah, so that sounds very similar to like what a strata manager would do with the budget for their complex. Is that how you would like it?

Speaker 2: 16:50

Very much similar and it comes from being in an agency that was so commercial, dominant that's how they were doing their budgets, you know, for every financial year.

Speaker 2: 16:59

And I pull one of the agents aside because it was kind dominant, um, that's how they they were doing their budgets, you know, for every financial year. And I I pulled one of the agents aside because it was kind of this little bit of a split. You know they were commercial, will resi, don't talk um. But I kind of meshed the two together a little bit and I said show me what you're doing, because there's no reason why we can't be doing that. You know these center managers and whatnot, we can be doing that for our clients as well. And and that's that first layer. But the second layer was also assisting people who are still looking to continue to invest in Tassie. We have a really high percentage of interstate investors and a service that I like to offer was just keeping an eye out for properties that were similar to theirs, that were for sale and that could be, you know, a good investment as well, and kind of dabbling in that buyer's agent kind of area as well.

Speaker 1: 18:15

Yeah, that's so cool, so can you. So I'm asking you a question, and it's not reflective of me, but reflective of maybe what other people that are listening are going to ask yeah, how do you have time going back to the first point of those financial year? How do you have time to do it, is it you know? Do you acknowledge it's time consuming but worth the output? Or what's your? What would be your comment to those that say, well, I just don't have time to do that?

Speaker 2: 18:44

I didn't find it difficult to do that and I liken it to that. Maybe I was just very good at the basics that I had a lot of free time in my portfolio. I managed a third more than everybody else in my team. I managed quite a lot of properties and I had all of this extra spare time and for a while I was like am I missing something? Missing something like, am I forgetting to do a crucial part of my role? Why do I have this time? But it was just I did the basics and I did them really well and once I got really comfortable with that, once I really knew my owners and I had this great communication with my tenants. I had this time because there weren't issues, because they were already done, like we were preparing for them, um, and there weren't issues like something would happen, but that's not, that's okay, that happens, that's fine.

Speaker 2: 19:30

I had this extra time where I was then able to invest into you know, invest our investments. So I think process is coming to it a lot. I'm very, um, process driven. I have a process for everything, I have a digital checklist for everything and, using softwares that you know, integrate with your systems but also just make efficiency. So I used mondaycom. I would input all my lease rules in there so they would remind me when I needed to do certain parts. I just I really set up my portfolio as my little business and just ran it how I wanted to run it.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Yeah, it reminds me a lot of and while you probably personally handed all your arrears and things like that, but the idea that property managers and business owners are probably trying to create is where a lot of that stuff is offshored so that it frees up the property manager to do exactly what you are doing in your day-to-day. So, for those that are listening and let's just say you're not on top of the basics and I just I think that's really really important for people to hear is that we probably are getting bogged down on stuff that we actually probably that can actually either be outsourced or, as a property manager, you can create a better system for so that you can prioritize the more important work, which is what you're doing. Because one thing that I know that I mentioned at this event was that it is like people have excuses all the time I'm too busy, I'm spending too much time on this, I'm spending too much time on that and it comes down to priorities and what I can sort of like you haven't, you haven't. It's not that you haven't not prioritized the, the rank, because you have and you've got all that sorted out, but you've really, um, focused on getting that sorted so that you can prioritize the important stuff and you're finding time to do it regardless.

Speaker 2: 21:27

I think that's really important and and look I I wasn't ever spending a lot of time over time doing things. I think it really came down to strengthening my relationship with my property owners. And look, I wasn't like this. From the day that I walked into that portfolio. I spent probably a solid six months fixing things. I went in and fixed things and it wasn't broken when I started.

Speaker 2: 21:50

But I went in and established their expectations, established how they wanted to be communicated and if they wanted to be called for this kind of maintenance or they're happy for me to just do it. And I built that trust and I really tried to understand how they work and what their expectation of me was. And then I did the same with the tenants as well. I went in and introduced myself, you know, not for an inspection or anything, but I just said I'm going to pop over on this day just to say hi and then just started that conversation. And that was time consuming to begin with, but the payoff was enormous. I was able to just then, you know, just text tenants when I needed something and it was really efficient. Nothing was too much to ask for them. They weren't afraid to ask me questions and they cared for their homes because they cared for me as well. So when it came to vacay and maybe things weren't great, you know there was a tenant who had something happen in their life and the vacay wasn't great, but we had this relationship where it was.

Speaker 2: 22:46

I'll help you fix this. Let's fix this. Let's not bother the owner with it. Let's not go through a bond dispute. Let's rectify this. I can get this cleaner to help you, this carpet cleaner, whatnot. Let's settle all of this externally and leave it separate from your bond or whatnot, because that made the owner happy. They didn't have to deal with anything. That made my time worth, because I didn't have to do a vacate. I didn't have to do like a big, hectic vacate. I didn't have to do, um, a bond dispute or anything like that, because I've just helped them as a person, um, and I'm a very empathetic person as well, which is is dangerous in property management, um, but you know it helped them just on a personal, friendly approach to get them back on track, so that it made this part of my job easier. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:33

I absolutely love it, I really do, and I think as a whole, and it's so great for everyone to hear these stories of what other people are doing in their businesses because, slowly, the more people that adapt and do this work, it's then going to become the norm, and if you're not doing this and not adding on an extra level of service, then you're going to be left behind. And there's this saying that says, if you that the world is going to change with or without you, and if you continue to do exactly what you're doing as a property manager, the world is moving so fast that you might as well go backwards. So you have to start doing it, because everyone else is going to and you're the one that's going to be left behind, unfortunately. Yeah, so I love the way you've invested in those. So I'm doing the annual investor check-ins, where I do like a logic report, which will be one similar to what you're doing, but I actually love the idea of that being something consistent that's done every financial year.

Speaker 1: 24:41

Yeah, yeah, I will admit I feel completely daunted at the idea of doing like that budget or maintenance plan. However, saying that, I can absolutely see the merit in it and my brain's ticking of. How could I sort of automate this, like how could I use some sort of I don't know AI to generate that?

Speaker 2: 25:06

I have a. So the first year that I did it, I did it for my multi-owners. So I did it for in my portfolio I had, you know, a handful of multi-owners and they owned about six or seven properties. Most of them were unit complexes and things like that. But I did it for them to begin with because it was just easier. It was you know, this is your portfolio. And then for the following year I did it for everybody. It was, you know, this is your portfolio. And then for the following year I did it for everybody, which it did take a little bit of time, but it was really worthwhile because I was connecting them with agents and whatnot, but I forgot what I was going to say I was going to say how it took a while to do them.

Speaker 1: 25:43

I mean, oh oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:46

So, for the maintenance plan, something that you could possibly do is, if you're one of the a property manager who write um, recommended improvements and things like that throughout the year on their routine inspections, go back through those and collaborate those into. I guess here's a an improvement plan. Um, something that year we would do is a price improvement plan and things that you can. I reckon if you did, you did this work these little bits and pieces. When it comes through to renewal time or to remarket the property, it's so much more tenable, it's more attractive doing those cosmetic refreshes as well, and this is, you know, this is what your return on investment is going to be if you put in this, and we can help you with your depreciation and things like that as well.

Speaker 2: 26:27

So I think, initially, choosing the properties that you would like to improve and would like to, you know, be better in your portfolio is the best way to start, because those are. You know, if you've got properties that are a little bit run down and if you love them, you know it's an old owner they might not like you know to do maintenance and things like that, and it's probably one of those properties that, yeah, if you were to lose that management. You know you're probably not going to be really upset about it. So, starting with that, so here's, you know, here's what I think we should invest over the next 12 months to get you to this point where we can then offer a renting increase at this amount. You know, I can't, obviously, predict what the market's going to be doing, but in this market you could achieve that if we did this. And I think that's a good way to start, you know, implementing something like that, because then you're, you know, then you're at least improving your portfolio.

Speaker 1: 27:30

Yeah, and I'm just thinking like the whole and I think if we property managers can look at it as like a real sort of holistic point of view, that when you start doing this type of levelling up in service, the trust that that client's going to have with you is completely going to like blow you out of the water.

Speaker 1: 27:47

And so when issues come up or problems come up that are maybe a little bit out of your control, like rent arrears or whatever it might be, they're going to make your life so much easier so you can do the basics easier, because they'll just be like Hayley yep, trust you, you do whatever you need to do and you can get on with your job without having to argue over the simple stuff like do you definitely find that there's a correlation with that?

Speaker 2: 28:11

yeah, absolutely. And look, there was a. It reminds me of a situation I was in pretty early um. I had this, this owner who I didn't really align with and I remember I'm quite a frank person, I understand my professionalism and I understand that my you know if I'm saying something it's for the right reason. I'm not trying to get you to throw money away for no reason.

Speaker 2: 28:33

I said you need to get the carpet replaced. You need to get it had holes in it. It was terrible. Called my manager is like how dare she tell me what to do? And I said but this is my professional opinion. You need to get the carpet replaced. It's not tenable. You do it or you go. Because you know, and there was this conflict and my manager at the time was like you can't tell him what to do. And I said but that's my professional opinion and I am employed to manage this for you and to tell you how to maximize your investment. And you need to get the car replaced. End of story.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Um, and it was kind of this little bit of a joke. You know that I'd tell them what to do and I'd run it for them. But I'm very comfortable with doing that because if you're employing me, you're employing me for my experience, my ability to do my job. So trust me if I say we need to do something, we need to do it. And I've gotten to a point with my owners now. Obviously that owner he didn't stay with our company for a little bit, for much longer, because it was more of his mindset and more of who he was as a person. He didn't align with the reputation we wanted to uphold for our tenants. But for the clients that I've got now at this agency, they're wonderful and we've got this relationship now where I've taken the time to get to know them, I've taken the time to understand how they want to be communicated with. So I'm quite confident if I call them or send them a text saying, hey, I've had to do this today.

Speaker 1: 30:07

We're good yeah exactly, and I was just going to bring it back to that confidence, which is something that I think we all need to be better at doing, is having confidence in our role, because we hands down and, like I can't stress how much I believe the importance of property managers in the investor journey.

Speaker 1: 30:29

Like sales agent buys agents like I'm sorry but sure they all serve their purpose, but a good property manager who actually manages like you are, it'll make or break your investment Absolutely and like we are the person.

Speaker 1: 30:45

So, and I try to say to people like all the years of experience, courses, money that you've invested in to become this, whether that's personal development or professional development, is worth something, like it's worth something and you should be, you should have that confidence to do that, because it also what it's going to do again as a big picture is by levelling up these services.

Speaker 1: 31:09

We're going to be able to hold our fees a lot more as time goes on, and I don't know if you do this or not, but something that I encourage people to do is, if you are offering these what we consider extra services, put it into a fee schedule and to actually put, even if it's down, in there as like a bonus, but make sure that you're telling people that you do an annual check-in or you do an annual budget or whatever it is, because if the client is seeing three BDMs and all the fees are going to be within reason, the same but not much of a variance, you need to stand out and you can stand out by having those level up services as well when you're going to change your fee schedule.

Speaker 2: 31:53

Yeah, absolutely. And I think and, like I said, I feel like it's not something that is overly done in Tassie. There are some really, really incredible property managers in Launceston and I'm pretty sure they're all business owners, so they've got this, they're leveled up, you know, and I just find that there's this younger generation of property managers, but also, you know, people in my age group have been doing it for a few years and whatnot. They just they don't know it's there. They don't know how much more they could know. And, yeah, I think if BDMs are really believing in that service, they need to be teaching their property managers how to do that as well. And that's where I find BDMs who are department managers are really valuable because they have got a trust in their team and you can tell when a department manager really believes in their team. And you can tell when a department manager really believes in their team in the way that they're speaking about them. Um, and especially if they're not taking on management, it's quite easy to think, oh yeah, I'll take that management on. You know they really wanted me or whatnot. But being able to speak about your team and build that confidence in your team and their ability because you've shown them how to do these things, you've helped them get to that point. And you've helped them get to that point and sitting down together and going through that kind of stuff together I think would be so valuable and I would really encourage property managers to, yeah, want to know what they don't know. Learn what they don't know.

Speaker 2: 33:14

Um, ask you know another property manager in in your office what do you do? Show me what you do each day. Because I got to that point where I was like why do I have this extra time? And one of the girls was like what do you mean? Like how do you have this time? And I said, well, can you watch what I do for a day? Can you, you know, audit my processes and tell me what I'm missing? And that's when they learnt they weren't doing certain things. And that's when they learnt they weren't doing certain things. And that's when they started to level up, they started to understand. You know, you get to a point and it just clicks and then you're ready to take on more. And, yeah, I think, if you're feeling like you're at that point and things are running really well, ask somebody what else can you do?

Speaker 1: 33:56

yeah yeah now um last question for you, and there's no right or wrong in this question. It's going to vary for everybody. Who do you feel should be responsible for those level up services in a business? Do you feel like it should be the business owner, a department manager, a BDM or a property?

Speaker 2: 34:16

manager. I think that's really interesting. I think there's so much value in your property managers. So I'm a big believer in end-to-end property management, because you're building a relationship with the owner. You're building it with a tenant. You need to understand all of those intricacies, and I think a department manager as a whole should be ensuring that their property managers are serving their clients to their best ability. And if a property manager doesn't understand how to maximise the service they're offering, then a department manager needs to be teaching them how to do that. But I think a property manager will find their job so much more fulfilling if they are open to learning investment management rather than property management yeah, I think so as well.

Speaker 1: 35:08

I think definitely. I mean, I think that I said at the event is that it doesn't matter who does it, as long as someone does it in the office absolutely, that's like the first priority. But I yeah, I agree, I'm definitely all for end-to-end management, back-to-end management. So for me I think, like at the moment I'm doing a lot of our level-up services because I can, but getting to a point where the property manager does that and they know the property, they are the best person to give that advice.

Speaker 2: 35:38

Yeah, and you know they're the best person to offer that service because they're on the ground with it. And I think you know an issue I previously had with um task-based training well, um, working was I didn't actually know what that conversation was, or I didn't actually see that leak, and it's so hard to then portray that if you don't know. So being in it is the best way to give that advice, yeah totally amazing.

Speaker 1: 36:03

It's been wonderful chatting to you and um and, yeah, we're definitely very aligned with that. So, with the whole level up service and I hope that those that are listening really gain a bit of insight in regards to sort of what other people are doing and what you need to start prioritizing this is becoming more and more common and the more that we start talking about it, you guys are going to hear that it's going to become the norm and you're going to be falling behind if you don't so highly recommend whether it's, um, what hayley's doing, what I'm doing, maybe it's something else. It's another type of level up service that you can offer. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's something more that is helping the investor um have what I basically say.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Property manager's role is to make the investment journey as easy as possible for the landlord while keeping it in your agency for as long as possible, like that is your role and however you want to do, it is fine, but you've got to start thinking about it, and it's also good for a property manager to hold their reputation as a property manager as well, wherever they go. If you're, if you're moving agencies, then you know. That's how you share that knowledge and pass it around. Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, amazing. Well, it was lovely chatting. I am sure we're going to chat again soon. So any other fantastic ideas you have, feel free to send me a link and we'll get you on the podcast again to chat about it as well, but it's been a real pleasure and I appreciate your time. Thank you, thank you, cheers.