It's How You Carry It ft. Phil B #143

Steve welcomes Phil to share their experience, strength, and hope with you, along with advice on getting and staying sober.

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Transcript

Steve: 0:03

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennet-martin, I am an alcoholic and I am grateful for the opportunity to interview Mark Jacobs at this year's gsm. As of this recording, I am 676 days sober, and today we're welcoming you guest to share their experience, wisdom, and hope with you. Welcome, Phil.

Phil: 0:27

Hey, Steve. Thanks for having me.

Steve: 0:30

Yes, and I've gotten the pleasure to getting to know you through gsm, but why don't you introduce yourself to our

Phil: 0:34

listeners? Okay. So hi everybody. I'm Phil. I'm actually a crystal meth addict. And I'm originally from New York, but I'm now living in Minnesota and we'll get into some more of everything else, but I think that's enough of an introduction. Sounds

Steve: 0:51

good. And what are some of your favorite hobbies or things to do to keep you busy in sobriety and recovery?

Phil: 0:56

So one of the, one of the best things that I actually started doing was actually just being present and enjoying the time with my family. Mm-hmm. I have one older brother and our parents are already deceased. So, and he's actually how I got into recovery, but we'll get into that a little bit later. We travel, we just go and live and do things. You know in recovery I've realized that I just love experiencing what's going on around me. So, yeah. And it's kind of a, not quite a hobby, but it definitely gets me moving and gets me through the day when I'm having a stressful. Yeah, for

Steve: 1:41

sure. And then why don't we jump into the, what it was like, what happened and what it's like now, business of it all.

Phil: 1:48

Gotcha. So like I said, I'm from New York and I've got one older brother and He's straight and he was the kind of picture perfect child with like the good grades and never, never any behavioral problems or anything else like that. And my mother wound up being on a first name basis with the school principal because she was there so often for me because of life and whatever else cuz I just, I always felt different. I always felt. Like I didn't belong. And for the longest time it was just kinda like, all right, we'll get through it, we'll get through it. And I mean, it was just kind of one of those things like I also descend from a long line of alcoholics up both sides of the family tree. And I was very, I was very cognizant and aware. Family history. So I was always very careful. You know, and I never really had a problem with alcohol, but in my, like I dabbled with a little bit of cocaine and stuff in high school cuz when you grow up in New York and you go to a private all boys Catholic prep school. There's a lot of cocaine floating around the hallways. But it never really sunk its teeth into me like crystal meth did when I was in my late twenties. My mom was ill for a number of years and my dad and I took care of her, so that was stressful. And then grandma moved in with us and then mom died and. Yeah, like I mentioned, I descend from a blonde line of alcoholics including my dad. And so I was dealing with him and his issues and then he died and before he died, grandma went blind. And so all of a sudden I was taking care of grandma all the time and I. Would get lonely and I'd jump on certain apps that have their own notorious kind of innuendos and everything else. And there it was one night, you know, some guy came over and, well, the first time he came over, we just hooked up. Then he came back three or five days later. And we hooked up again and there was a pipe and it was like, okay, sure. We'll just give it a try. You know, didn't, didn't actually realize what it was. Mm-hmm. And it was like, oh, okay. And all of a sudden I'm like, I have all this energy and I can kinda keep doing whatever I'm doing. I was taking care of grandma, I was renovating the house. I was working in New York real estate and in insurance sales. So, you know, I was an independent contractor, so I didn't have a boss and a schedule, but if I didn't work, I didn't get paid. So, you know, I used to say there were never enough hours in the. But then it didn't even dawn on me that, you know, after I would hook up with this guy, that I was still in Energizer bunny mode going for three, four days, not eating. I thought I was sleeping cuz like I would kind of like lay in bed, but it was like, oh wait, I gotta do this and I gotta do that. So that was like the very early days of my active addiction. Mm. And I thought I was really good in that. Like I never had my own supplies, I never had my own anything, but I'm a very social person. And I would be social with this person on Friday, this person on Saturday, this person on Sunday, and pray to God that the three of them never talked to each other. Mm-hmm. And then it, it escalated. It escalated. The next thing. I knew, that guy that introduced me to it. Came by and we were doing our thing and we ran out. So it was like, well, let's go to, let's go to his dealer. And well, if we're gonna go to the dealer and he's gonna get some, I might as well just get some too. And that's how it all started to really escalate. And it just got worse and worse. With my, with dealing with my grandmother and my, and my dad dying. The lawyers that actually, excuse me, that actually were taking care of my dad's estate, mentioned that grandma had a healthcare insurance policy that would actually pay for, ready for this round the clock care. Mm-hmm. So all of a sudden I was able to have somebody in the house taking care of her. So I'm like, oh, oh, wait to be lifted off my shoulders. More time to go do stupid things, you know? I spent a lot of time driving all over Long Island, New York, New Jersey, part of Connecticut, Pennsylvania, doing a lot of stupid things, you know, and it just continued to escalate. And then I think grandma died. And it just, by this point I was, my ex-boyfriend was living with me. And he was a big contributing part in the chaos cuz he is a crystal meth addict. To the best of my knowledge. I mean, I know he is an addict. I don't know today if he's alive or if he's in jail or if he's in recovery. But we were living together and it was just escalating and rather than, Actually doing what he went to school for and all of that. He decided to deal, and he actually even had it mailed from his suppliers to my parents' home, you know because of course his name wasn't on the title to the house, wasn't his name on any of the bills or anything else. And it was. And I'm like, you know what? I can't do this. I also just was like, you know what, it's time to get outta New York City. So I sold the house and I moved not too terribly far north, but in the lower Hudson Valley, Rockland County. And, but my biggest problem moved with me. My biggest problem was me. My, it was, I couldn't handle. The trauma of losing so many family members in such a short period of time. And we're talking in, in the span of five years, three, three family members from like the nuclear family that raised me were gone. And even though I was in my late twenties, early thirties, it was still traumatic. You know, I mean, I fully acknowledge that death is a part of the life cycle, but it hurt and, and I really, and I kind of always felt. The kid that got left behind, you know? Cause it's like everybody kind of moved on, you know? And all of my friends were moving on. They were in successful relationships. They were building their careers, they were starting their families, and they all loved and supported me. And they were like, you know, we get, you got things going on with your family. And then it was like, well now the family's gone. What do we, what do you got going on? You know, and the rest of my family, I was lying through my teeth to them about what was going on because by that point I had, for lack of a better phrase, upgraded from smoking meth to injecting it. It is. And so I just, all of a sudden now, Whereas looking like crap, I wasn't eating and I was weighing in somewhere between like 130 and 140 pounds and it's not quite a good look on me. I mean, you, you know, ribs are not supposed to be seen, you know, you're supposed to be able to feel'em, but you're not supposed to see them. You know? So, so that's a lot of kind. What it was like and, and kind of what happened, you know, cuz my life just continued to spiral. I remember Christmas time 2016, I had pulled up to the, at t m put my debit card in cause I was gonna take out some cash to go do some Christmas shopping, actual Christmas shopping for my family members cuz I was gonna try to like buy my way back into like their good standing. And I tried to take out some cash, insufficient funds, fee in notification. Tried to lower amount. No, it is nothing working. You know, and like there's a lot of cars like behind me and I'm like, all right, I gotta go into the branch. And I walk into the branch and I'm like, Hey guys, this a problem with my card, da, da, da. And the branch manager happened to be the person to first take care of me, cuz everybody else was busy. And he looked at it and he looked in the computer and he was like, here's not a problem with your card. We closed your account. Oh, now I'm officially broke. But I owned my townhouse. But then all of a sudden, all the lights started going off. The homeowner's insurance, the electric bill, everything else is linked to this debit card. To this account. Oh, Houston, we got a problem. Cause as long as I was able to keep up, the appearance of life is fine and dandy, I'm gonna be okay. But now what am I gonna do? How am I, you know, how am I gonna swallow my pride and. Like I said, this was December, 2016. I owned a 2016 Land Rover Discovery fully loaded, and I, God, I missed that truck, but I swallowed my pride and sold it and totally downgraded to like a really basic Jeep. I mean, it literally didn't even have four wheel drive. It was a Jeep Station wagon. But with that, I got a check from the dealership that I sold the Land Rover. So I was able to start to rebuild myself, set up a new bank account, set up, you know, cleared up all of the utilities and homeowner's insurance and, and all that stuff. And I still had a little bit of money left over and I'm like, I've been called my dealer, and I did. And he was like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. Why do you ask? He's like, You're buying less than you usually do. I'm like, just shut up and like, let's keep it moving. Fast forward a couple of days and I'm just, I mean, we got through the holiday season somehow some way and I'm just hating myself, you know? That ex-boyfriend that I mentioned, you know, before I sold the house, he moved out and then he got kicked out of his apartment. So he wound up moving in with me in Rockland County. And it was just like, you know what? We're done. We're going to either murder each other or something. You gotta go. And so he got, you know, you know, he got out the door. And so this is now like early Jan, early 2017, and I'm just, I'm embarrassed, I'm frustrated, I'm annoyed, I'm disappointed in myself. And I have some college friends that live. Southwest of Albany, New York. And again, they were the ones that were like, you know, marriage and careers and family and all those things. And they were like, the kids haven't seen you. Why don't you come up for a couple of days? And, you know, a couple of days turned into three weeks and I am so very grateful for them because I knew that there. Addiction issues in their family that they had dealt with. And while I never flat out said to them, I've got a problem, I knew that being around them, I would start to make better choices. I would start to, you know, I knew for the most important shit I would not have any meth in their home. Mm-hmm. The kids were too young. Little kids like to explore and, you know, I didn't want to run the risk of the kids getting into it or anything else like that. Yeah. I mean, it's also just one of those things where I'm like, let's just do the right thing there. Yeah. You know, and like I said, the, the three day weekend turned into three weeks, and on Sunday night, I think it was a Sunday. My buddy and I got into a minor disagreement about something. I don't even know what it was and I don't think he does, but I looked at my dog when my buddy went to bed and I said to the dog, we've out it our welcome. We're leaving. We got in that Jeep and we drove home, and I was just so broken and embarrassed and frustrated that I turned my cell phone off and my house phone. Because I didn't put it in the cradle and I wasn't in the house for three weeks. The battery died on it. Yeah. My buddy woke up in the morning and saw that my car was gone, which wasn't unusual cause I would occasionally like run to the grocery store. But when he saw that the dog was gone, he knew something was up. And he called my brother and he said to my brother, you need to get him in somewhere, or he's gonna be. My brother got in the car and drove five hours south to my place. My brother called our aunt and uncle and they drove an hour and change up from New Jersey and Phil was out at a barber getting his haircut. Hmm. Yep. I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna try to take care of myself. I'm gonna try to get, you know, back to like being a productive member of society and. The but my family has this weird thing where we all have keys to each other's houses. Yeah. We always respectfully be like, I'm showing up. Yeah. But we all have keys. And I pulled into the parking lot in my townhouse and so my brother's car, and so my aunt and uncle's car, and I went, oh, party's over. Party's over. And then I. And they have keys. That's right. Oh God. But there wasn't any, there weren't any drugs in the house. There was paraphernalia and a lot of it, and a lot of gear and toys and other things that usually go along with math. For, for, for you listeners that aren't quite sure about. We'll get into that maybe at the after show. But the and I just went, okay, time to put my big boy pants on and face the music. My brother looked at me and said, I came here expecting to find your body, and that didn't even sink in until days later. Mm-hmm. I mean, he's like, he's like, you have a problem? I'm like, yeah, I do. He's like, you gotta go somewhere. I'm like, let's figure out what we're doing with the dog and I'll go somewhere. I went somewhere and I was the only meth addict. I was the only gay guy. And the place kind of looked like it was the set of dirty dancing. Mm-hmm. Like that kind of retro 1960s sort of look. It, it was actually in the Catskills prob probably not far from where they filmed Dirty Dancing. But it was one of the best things for me. Mm-hmm. It gave me the chance to press the reset button, you know? And that's, That's an interesting experience. But yeah, so that's that. My brother, the family decided that Phil can't live alone. Mm-hmm. And, and, and Phil was being a wise ass going Well, Phil doesn't live alone. Phil lives with Casey and my brother. After seeing my arms and realizing how bad it had gotten, he goes, yeah, cuz Casey's gonna be able to pull a needle outta your arm. Casey was my dog and no he couldn't. The other thing that my brother pointed out at that I referred to it as the final intervention. It wasn't really an intervention, but it's the only way to really. When he saw my arms and he saw all of the scarring and everything else, he, he, he looked at me and said, if mom were alive, she'd kick your ass from here to Kingdom come. Because my mother was a phlebotomist. My mother worked for New York Blood Services actually taking people's donated blood out of their bodies. So in high school, she used to practice odd. You know, she's like, come here, I need to practice. And she'd be poking around in my arms and everything else. So in the active addiction phase, when my ex-boyfriend had shown me how to, I went, oh, I could do this. Cuz I, I remember where mom used to poke and, and everything. She never actually poked me with no, but like, you know, just like, and I'm like, I could do this. And that's how. It all really just went right to hell in a hand basket. Because we're, we, we're now looking at years of use, you know, intravenously and it just was. Such the, the catalyst of, of spinning my life outta control. So that's what it was like and what happened and what it's like now. Actually this coming Sunday is my sixth anniversary clearance sober. Oh. So after rehab I moved in with my aunt and uncle in Jersey and I spent the first five years of my recovery. Going to meetings and the Crystal Meth fellowship in New Jersey was not even a thing when I first got there. So I got involved with the rooms of Narcotics Anonymous and was kind of like, okay, this is cool. This works. You know, because at the end of it all, 12 step fellowship is a 12 step fellowship. And then I moved down the shore and was living near Asbury Park and heard through the rooms of NA down there that there was C M A starting and getting developed down there. So I got involved with that and that's when I really went, I found my people where I could walk into a meeting and lay some shit out on the floor and have half the room go, oh honey, we've been there. We. You know and I think I've already mentioned is that I'm now living in Minnesota. I relocated out here literally Thanksgiving weekend 2022 to start a graduate program in addiction counseling. So that's, This is actually week 13 of 15 for my first semester. So I think that answers the other hobby question of Yeah, I'm sure that's a

Steve: 22:24

hobby's taking up a couple hours here and there. Yeah,

Phil: 22:27

exactly. Yeah. Graduate school, lots and lots of graduate school. Yeah. And reading, and it's been 17 years since I graduated college, so there was all sorts of anxiety around like getting back into. A student and learning how to navigate virtual learning. Cause it wasn't a thing when I earned my bachelor's degree. Mm-hmm. But yet where I'm sitting right now, I could sit here and do my homework. I quite often do all my days off. But yeah. So yeah, I think I've given you guys a lot. I'm gonna take a big. Break and let the host of the show say something.

Steve: 23:07

Okay. Sounds good. Well, with all of these gifts in your recovery, what would you say right now is your favorite part of being

Phil: 23:16

sober? The, my favorite part of being sober now is, believe it or not, I'm actually more adventurous. Mm-hmm. I'm. I, I don't really hesitate to do things. I just kind of say, okay, let's give it a try. It, it, it might work. We might have fun, or we might fall flat on our face, as I did several times in my first winter in Minnesota. But yeah, that's probably my favorite part. My, my favorite part also is how comfortable I've gotten in my own skin. You know, where it's like I. I can be, I can be in a room full of people and not feel like I'm completely alone, or I could be completely alone and be completely content. So I think that's the biggest my favorite part of my life now. Yeah, I can

Steve: 24:16

certainly relate. I. Can relate to both of those feelings, especially at the end of like, I was always alone in a group full of people and I hated being alone. Like even when I was by myself, I needed to have music playing or this going or that going. And the tv, I couldn't be doing too many things at once. And especially with your drug of choice being so closely tied and often involved with sex, what was it like kind of untangling those two things when you got sober?

Phil: 24:46

So, In early recovery, I used to joke around that I ran the best little whorehouse in Northern Rockland County. Mm-hmm. Because between my ex and myself, it really should have been a revolving door instead of a front door. But the homeowner's association wouldn't let us put the revolving door in. Bad joke. I know. But one of the biggest things. For me was actually living with my aunt and uncle. They were in their late sixties, early seventies when I moved in with them, and both were retired. And so I always said, I went from living in the whore house to living in a monastery. Mm-hmm. Cause it just was, first of all, they had me on such a short figurative leash that it's like, Or no, like, I mean, I think I'm the only gay guy in this town in Jersey, and it's like, and and you are absolutely right. Crystal meth is so linked to sex in the gay community. But I also just didn't have a drive at that point. I had like no urge or anything else. And honestly it was just like, you know what? That part of, that part of me was still like somebody was holding the reset button on that and like didn't let that go right away. I mean, even after I moved out and I was living alone on the sh on the jersey shore with, with my dog, I had like no sort of urge, you know, or even desire because. The only way that I knew how to find somebody to hook up was through those apps, and I wasn't willing to put my recovery in jeopardy. You know, it was, you know, one of the, my brother said a lot of things at that, at that final intervention. And, and in like the days leading up to dropping me off at rehab. And, and I think it was in the, in, in the drive to the rehab where. He's like, you got one shot at this. He's like, he's like, I will support you. I will always love you. He's like, but you have one shot at this. So even though I'm comfortable in my own skin, there's still that little bit of pressure where I kind of feel like Atlas, where it's like, if I fuck up, if I, you know, if I make a bad. Am I gonna lose it all? You know, but, but we, we But back to like the, the sex and the meth. It was, yeah. I, I think it was around my second anniversary in 2019 where I was like, I was presented with the opportunity to hook up with somebody and. He's also in recovery and it's like, okay, this is this, this kind of works. You know? And I mean, it, yeah, it, it, it kind of worked. It was, we, we both kind of laughed after a while cuz we're like, cuz it was. It was my first time, honestly, since getting clean, and I think he only had like maybe one or two ahead of me. So it was kind of like the blind leading the blind in a way. But it was, it was an experience. Yeah, I can

Steve: 28:24

imagine. Almost like, I remember my first time was with someone else who, it was their first time and it was, it was alert. There was a learning curve to a lot of that. So I can imagine it being something.

Phil: 28:35

Yep. Yep.

Steve: 28:37

So, excellent. And like outside the bedroom, how have you found yourself like embracing or getting more comfortable within the queer community?

Phil: 28:45

So, before active addiction, we gotta rewind time a little bit. You know, I grew up in New York City, but I was right on the Queens border of Nassau County. So I used to go out to Fire Island all the. I had several years of having my own summer rental with roommates in Cherry Grove, you know, and I, and then in the winter and fall I would be down in Greenwich Village and I was, you know, friends with a lot of bartenders, owners, managers, drag queens, you name it, you know. And I was very careful. About who I reconnected with after I got into recovery, you know a couple people actually were so concerned that they reached out to my brother via Facebook, and my brother would screenshot the messages to him. I'd be like, who is this person? I'd be like, no, that's, that's somebody legit, like, you know, it's a good connection. It's a good, it's a good human being. Yeah. You know, and you know, and, and there were a couple of people that it was like, yeah, I'm just not ready to, to, to even. Let that person have my current phone number. Mm-hmm. You know, you know you know, and just kind of leave them in pending status because I don't know where they're at and at the time I just wasn't willing to jeopardize it. But, you know, finding my, finding myself in the recovery career community has been an interesting experience. It's been, it's been one of those things where I just go and I surround myself with other folks of the queer recovery community. Mm-hmm. You know literally every letter of the community I am friends with, you know, and we support each other. We show up at each other's meetings unannounced and just. We, we, we, we go and we do things even if it's like, you know, I had one friend in New York that on like a day off, I would take the train in from the city and literally spend the day doing whatever errands and chores he had to do. Yeah. Like dropping clothes off at the dry cleaner, like running errands, grocery shopping, walking the dog, like just the most random stuff. And. Those, and, and that's actually one of the best parts of, of, of the recovery community is, is the, we don't need to be at the bar. We don't need to be, you know, at the bathhouses and, you know, doing things that we're not fully proud.

Steve: 31:47

So, yeah. And speaking of doing things we are proud of, this episode will be coming out in early June, just before the Shear's Gay and Sober conference. Okay. So tell us how that's played a role in your recovery.

Phil: 32:01

So, so I had heard about GSM kind of through the grapevine and. I should look into that a little bit more and then, and then the pandemic hit and I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing anything. Mm-hmm. So in, actually, I think it was March, February, March, 2022. An acquaintance of mine that I know from the New Jersey rooms of Crystal Meth Anonymous had mentioned the Gay Sober Conference Pride Weekend in New York, and he is like, do you want to go? I'm like, yeah, sure. So he literally texted me the link. We both were on the registration website, signed up, and he booked the hotel room and we. We lived in different parts of Jersey and our work schedules didn't quite line up. So I'm like, I'll meet you there. And I got there and it was le so 2022 was my first year there. Actually we're gonna pull this full circle in a hot second. Because one of, one of the drag queens that I knew in the New York, nightlife and Fire Island. It was actually on the planning committee for GSM 2022 because, and all, and I'm like, oh my God. Like, like Logan and I got reconnected and it was just amazing because Logan is such a fantastic human being. I adore that person. I adore his husband too cuz, you know, but anyway yeah. So, so GSM it was. I got there and I'm like, this is such a fantastic idea. You know, because growing up in New York, I went to Pride quite often, you know, and I, well, I never used meth when I was at Pride, but I definitely was inebriated to the point where I should not have been operating a motor vehicle, but I did. So, So being so, so having an opportunity to fellowship with guys from around the globe was just amazing. And having the opportunity to really do some recovery work while still having an amazing experience in New York City during pride was such a great thing, you know? I am on the planning committee for the 2023 conference. So G S M over the last year has been a big part of my recovery. I, I, I keep in touch with a, with a lot of the guys, you know, just on that level of fellows in recovery, you know, the Monday night Zoom calls have been a staple of my life for way too many weeks, and I actually even felt guilty missing the meeting last night. But where you have one family member in the entire state of Minnesota and it happens to be his birthday, you go to his birthday party. Oh, yes you do. So, so, so that's kind of how GSMs impacted my recovery. It's a. It's built out my network so much further, you know I have two daily meditation readers that my hetero sponsor, God for me, one for my first Christmas in recovery. Mm-hmm. And the second one was for my first anniversary. The first one is, Called Glad Day. It's, it's written for the entire L G B T community in recovery and it's fantastic. The other one that he got me for my first anniversary is this book called Lavender Light that is specifically for the gay men in recovery and I, I mean those two. Readers are like my daily routine and I actually like snap pictures of their daily readings and I send them out to a bunch of people and the readings go around the world. And now that I'm in a different time zone than a lot of my friends, I try to like, Send it at like, so like it starts their day off. Probably doesn't help that. I work overnights now. So like in the middle of the night when everybody's asleep, I'm like, eh, where's sending text messages? But it's, it's, it's further, it's further reinforced that network, that safety net of community. Yeah. So that's the biggest impact to

Steve: 36:42

gsm. Excellent. And especially since you love so many different readings and literatures, do you have a favorite quote or mantra that you like to try and

Phil: 36:49

live? Oh, dear God, no. But actually, actually it's, it's not even, it's actually a Lena Horn quote. It's not the load that breaks you down, it's how you carry it. Mm-hmm. You know that's actually a bit a quote that has lived in my head for longer than. I've been in recovery probably longer than recovery and active addiction combined. Mm-hmm. You know, because it's not about that I have to do everything, that there's no shame in stopping, throwing your hand up and saying, I need help. You know? Sometimes it's. Unloading the car or carrying in the groceries, literally carrying everything. Sometimes it's just, I've had a stressful day, you know? You know, and I just need somebody to vent to. Mm-hmm. You know, and I've got, I, I, I've got that now, so.

Steve: 37:51

Excellent. Well, thank you so much and if any of our listeners wanted to follow you on any socials, do you have any that you can be added

Phil: 37:59

at? So the easiest way to find me on social media would actually be through my Facebook, which it's Phil Bronie. And and I know Steve's gonna throw it in the show notes. Yeah. With like those spelling of my last name, it's spelled exactly like it's pronounced. But there's that I mean, I am on Instagram, but I'm kind of one of those like Instagram stalkers where I don't really post a lot, but if I find you, I will be your biggest fan. Excellent. So that's why. If the listeners wanna get ahold of me, they can, they can find me on Facebook. Perfect.

Steve: 38:35

Excellent. Well, thank you so much and stick around for the post show. But in the meantime, thank you listeners for tuning into another episode of Gay a. If you're interested in sharing your story, getting involved with the show, or just saying hi, I'm an email away@gaypodcastgmail.com. Or on Instagram at gay a podcast and all the goods will be in the show notes. And follow us wherever you're listening so you can get these new episodes when they come out every Thursday. And until next time, stay sober friends.