Sober Steve welcomes Richard to share his experience, strength, and hope with getting sober in the queer community, as well as their philosophy of the 3 T's of Sobriety
Topics include
**Where to Find Us:**
- Richard on Instagram 🟢
- Richard on Facebook 🖇️
- gAy A on IG 🟢
- gAy A everywhere else 🖇️
Tell a friend to listen today!! Until next time, stay sober!
Sober Steve welcomes Richard to share his experience, strength, and hope with getting sober in the queer community, as well as their philosophy of the 3 T's of Sobriety
Topics include
**Where to Find Us:**
- Richard on Instagram 🟢
- Richard on Facebook 🖇️
- gAy A on IG 🟢
- gAy A everywhere else 🖇️
Tell a friend to listen today!! Until next time, stay sober!
So going fast forwarding to today. The Sober Recovery Community has given me so many gifts a few big ones is my self esteem. I'm able to look at myself in the mirror and be confident about what I see and be able to express that confidence in a non cocky, but yet non chalant way, like, hey, this is who I am. I have no shames on it. I don't plan on changing it because it doesn't fit into the quote unquote status quo because this is who I am.
Steve:Hey there super sober heroes. It's your host sober Steve, the podcasts guy here with 1,102 days sober. And I am so grateful for my third year sober that I celebrated last week that I'm going to continue talking about it in this week's episode, because. It is something that was a really big deal for me as a chance to kind of look back and reflect on the past three years. So much has changed since I would drink every single day and wake up so miserable and how that cycle over and over. Over again. That I love that. Now I got to explore ways that people stay sober and live awesome, sober, terrific, heroic lives. That's why I'm so excited to bring to you my interview today. With Richard, who I interviewed a couple of weeks ago. And we went over the three T's of his sobriety told in a really engaging way that I really loved. So I'm excited to share that with all of you. But yes, I'm also going to reflect a little bit more because I shared in last week's episode, some of the highlights from the ask me anything. That occurred on our Instagram page, as I'm having more conversations going on there as I kind of test things out before I bring them here to all of you. But one of the things that I also got to do when celebrating my anniversary is to share at a couple of meetings because I do use 12 step programs. At mine saved my life. And so the way that I pay that forward as I'm going each day to get my medicine is to share when I can, including opportunities to lead for meetings. I got to do that twice last week. Both of them in very different ways. One, a very local group with a, a. Older population. That's a little more reserved. And then I had my leather and kink meeting and the following night. So two very opposite ends of the spectrum. One where you're not supposed to curse in your shares. And one where if you're not cursing, what's wrong with you. Type of things. So love to be able to explore my story and retell it kind of through those two different perspectives. And the one thing that kind of tied them both together is just. How much, not only did I grow at first during that first year of sobriety, when I was really learning how to. He'll like the, the hurt that, oh, the things that I would drink over because once I learned how to physically stop drinking every single day, which was hard enough, going through the detox as a wondering what was wrong with me and not understanding all of the things. As I'm trying to understand things for meetings and concepts and prayers and all these new things. It was a very overwhelming time, or it was very much learning how to survive. And after a year of learning how to survive, I learned it pretty well because I had dedicated myself fully to it. I jumped in head first with a podcast, with my 12 step program, with everything I could to be as dedicated to my sobriety and recovery as possible that. When the first year there was a lot of change because I, all of a sudden could live in this world and function as a human being. And then something happened along the second year, going into my third year, even at the beginning where. I still was holding myself back a lot. I mentioned last week, the limiting beliefs that I had, you know, looking at this time last year, early June, I had just passed my second year. Or I was starting my third year of sobriety. And I was getting ready for a service commitment that had me miserable. I was going to meetings where they're great meetings, but I was going to only beginner's meetings. So I was only hearing beginners day in and day out. And I wasn't really having people that had a lot of sobriety in my life that I was like looking up to and talking with on a regular basis. And it was all strictly virtual. So I hadn't really, even two and a half, three years almost sober, like hadn't really experienced what that was like. And so here I am like last November where I was like, all right, I'm going to start going to in-person meetings and like finding my community of sober people locally and also. Doing other things locally, like doing kickball and going to the gym and volunteering with a youth organization. And all of a sudden, all these things happen. One after another, mostly as a by-product of me starting to work with a life coach and then becoming a life coach myself. But with all of these changes that happened. Just since then, like, my growth has skyrocketed where that first year was about like learning how to function as a person. And this past six months has been learning how to thrive as a sober person and how to like, be released back out into the world and be able to be around other people that aren't in the program and still like function and not be like nervous or twitchy or itchy or desperate or triggered or having any of these things that I was so terrified of in my second year of recovery, I was like, well, I found what worked for me and I'm afraid if I ever stray. Stray away from what I know works that my sobriety might break and I might fail and I might relapse and it'd be like all my fault because I tried something new. And now I realize how silly that is, because as long as I'm working such a strong program where I'm connected to other alcoholics, or I'm constantly texting people or calling people or going to meetings, as long as I'm doing this podcast and having these interviews, as long as I have this really strong routine of recovery where I'm putting my sobriety first. That means that I'm supposed to have other things. Second and third and fourth and fifth. And I didn't really work on what came after that sobriety those first couple of years, but I've been doing that the past six months and it's been really super awesome. So I am very happy to spend some time reflecting on that. And just saying that, you know, this is what three years sober looks like, what does five-year sober look like? Or 10 years sober, but also this is what six months of. Working and living with an as a coach has done it for me. What's that going to look like one year, three years, five years? Who knows? Things are changing really cool. I had this awesome public event last weekend, where I was dancing up on stage and a little cute outfit with flowers and my shirt was open and like all this, like self-confidence that I never really had before. And I was still a little afraid before I did it. But now, like when I still have those fears, I'm doing them anyway and it's really freeing. And it's a gift of sobriety that I've learned from working. All the programs and connecting with everyone no matter where I can find them and how I can in meeting them where they are and not judging them about their recovery or not. Comparing my recovery there is. It's been an awesome experience, kind of peeling back the onion of what sobriety looks like in the third year. And I'm very excited to see what. It happens as I continue on this journey one day at a time. One day at a time, brought me to my interview with Richard about a couple of weeks ago. So I will pass you over to him because he did a great job of framing his recovery journey through the three T's. So enjoy.
Richard:Mhm.
Steve:Hey there, Super Sober Heroes. It's your host, Steve, here with Richard. Hey, Richard.
Richard:Hello. Hello. This has been a
Steve:long time coming. Yes, it certainly has. I've had the pleasure of knowing you for a while, and we've been coordinating this for a little minute now. But why don't you introduce yourself to my listeners who haven't had the pleasure yet of meeting you or knowing you?
Richard:Sure. So my name is Richard. I wear plenty of hats and lights, but for the purpose of this episode, I am a person in long term recovery. I've been in recovery this round since March 15th of 2021. And I don't see that for any accolades or to satiate down some runway or whatnot. I say this as evidence that recovery is possible. And I also identify as a gay member of the LGBTQ community. Person of size and person of color.
Steve:Well, thank you very much for sharing all of that. Yes. I love the intersections of sobriety and how diverse and wonderful we all can be. What would you say is your favorite part of being a sober person today?
Richard:The fact that I can wake up without shame, without craving anything except life and with my line of work, being able to share my experience to help others. Again, I mentioned I wear many hats. Another hat of mine is being a lead peer support specialist for a comprehensive outpatient center. So, pretty much what that means, I'm a therapist and instead of the going to university and getting my degree, I went to the University of Hart Knox and my experience comes from actually using and going through substance use addiction with a little bit of mental health barriers such as depression and anxiety. and self esteem. So I share my experiences with others to help them develop their own healthy paths of recovery.
Steve:That is excellent. I definitely love the idea of recovering out loud and you are definitely an inspiration to our community. Speaking of community as well, what would you say is your favorite part of being a member of the queer community today? Just one
Richard:part? Geez, this is going to be tough. To break it down as best as possible, I would have to say Being able to express one's true self for a long time, and it's still a process to this day, for a long time I kept repressing myself, my true self, that way I can please family members, please society, but once I finally came out in June of 2000, I was able to express myself as I am, to express my true self, and 24 years later, I'm still evolving, and I'm still discovering things about myself that I may not have discovered 5, 10, 15 years ago, so just this, just a journey of self discovery, self expression, and being within a community that has so many different dimensions and so many different outlets. Just coming together for the purpose of, Hey, we're just being who we are. So,
Steve:yeah, I definitely love that. And to add you, you volunteered or you shared the, how, you know, with parts of your identity, also embracing the fact that you're larger and also of color. Do you want to add in anything about what you're grateful for, for those today or your favorite part?
Richard:So being a person of color has always been what they're made. It's who I am. It's who I express. I mean, That's just who I am. The person of size has been a journey. I've always been a large size person ever since I was young. And when I was starting to journey into the LGBTQ community, I was faced with a lot of different self esteem issues. There wasn't that much representation back then in terms of people's size and trying to fit in and just going through the process of losing weight as fast as I can, that's part of the reason why. That's part of the reason of how my addiction story started, was trying to change my image, trying to change my body in unhealthy manners. I didn't realize it was unhealthy at the time, of course, but I've now, fast forward to now, I've come to a point where this is who I am. The only reason why I'm going to change my body is for healthy reasons and not for getting attention and the support system of my size comes down to two different categories, people who respect my journey of accepting my size and people who don't. And for people who don't accept my size and don't care to understand or respect my journey, when it comes to me being a personal size, that's okay. I'm not put on this planet for everyone to love and respect and admire. That's okay, because I do have those people who do support me on my journey of discovering who my true size, what my true size is, rather, so. I
Steve:love that and I can relate my body has always been on its own journey of ups and downs and I've like never been the same way pretty consistently from year to year it's always been I'm bigger or I'm smaller or it changes but even like with with sharing that I just Today I'm so grateful. I was reflecting with a friend earlier who complimented like that. I met recently and they said very like having met me very recently that it was just like my high vibrational energy is what drew them to me. And so whether you believe in that or not, but I love that. Like the way that she kind of saw me was like as someone who's like, if I see someone and like the match, my energy, like I play with them. But if like, someone's not matching my energy, I'm like, that's okay. I respect you, but I'm going to go play with the people who do match my energy. And that's kind of what resonated for me is it's just like, whether it's about my size or about my interests or about my sexuality or my passions, it's if you're matching with my energy, we can vibe and play all day. But if our energies aren't matching up, that's nothing about my energy or your energy, that's wrong. It's just that they don't always match up perfectly. And that's okay, too.
Richard:I love how you put that. And for as long as I've known you, you've always had, I positive energy. So I've never said that to you before. Let me just say it now with all the viewers and listeners present. So,
Steve:well, thank you. Yes. It's a little steadier now than it was maybe manic earlier in recovery, but I think early in recovery, we're all just trying to learn how to people in life. Let's speaking of tell me what are some tricks or tips or things that in early recovery that helped you get sober that still help you stay sober today?
Richard:Well, that's a really good question. I've been going through so many trials and tribulations and triumphs. That sounds familiar. What worked for me in early recovery and what stuck with me, because what may have worked for me previously didn't always stick with me. But one of the things that worked with me and that stuck with me during my early recovery Is remembering that I'm not alone and that there are people who have been through the trenches that are there to support me and guide me with their suggestions and their stories and their inspiration and their hope. And that's what I, that's what I bring to the career that I'm in, whether I'm working with someone individually or in a group setting, I'm always telling them. Start a support network, grow that support network, and remember that you are not alone. Everything that I've been through in early recovery, I can guarantee you, someone else has either been through it, heard it, saw it on HBO Max, lived it, drank it, ate it, kissed it, sucked it, whatever. Yeah. Caviar, I'm from New York, and yeah, language of a sailor. But it doesn't reflect any organization I work for. So
Steve:yeah, no. And that's definitely something that I definitely can resonate with. And you mentioned triumphs, tribulations, and a whole bunch of three T's trials, tribulations, and triumphs. Why don't you tell me about what these three T's of sobriety and how you, why you love them so much as a what do you call those? Like the mod, like the thing is. Anyway, why don't you tell me about the three Ts of sobriety?
Richard:So the 3Ts, Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs, it originated from a Facebook group that I'm a part of called Queer Sober. And a question popped up. about what are some, what are three words that describe your recovery? And instantly, I thought of trials, tribulations, and triumphs. And that came from the fact that this is not my first round in recovery. I've had multiple rounds of recovery over the past, I'd say, 15 years. And those rounds of recovery involved a lot of trials, a lot of tribulations, And then, because of the hard work that I put in, once I took recovery seriously, a lot of triumphs as well. So, that's where it originated from, and that's pretty much has become the new title of my book, once I do finally set out to write a book about my life. Originally, the title was called, Don't Let the Glasses Fool You. I might still add that to the title. And come up with, don't let the glasses fool you, my three T's of trials, tribulations and triumph. Kind of like Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Love the Bomb. How I Learned to Love the Bomb.
Steve:Yeah, I love that. And tell me with the trials, With having overcome so many trials and knowing that you have more trials ahead of you, as long as we keep staying sober one day at a time, what is a lesson you've learned about how to overcome these trials while being true to yourself?
Richard:So I would honestly have to say, It's still a process. My trials may look different now compared to an early recovery. The one common factor is just looking at myself and saying, I can get through this because I'm not alone. So it goes back into support. And my support network.
Steve:Yeah, excellent. And I mean, support is so huge. I know that when I was in my addiction, I suffered alone. And even the people that were close to me couldn't get too close because then they might know. And that like that, that then they'd have to tell me and then I'd have to acknowledge it. And I was just not ready for that. So it was just easier just to shut out the worlds, but being sober. I am oftentimes amazed at how. Not only like close the relationships that I have are, but how many of them there can be, what would you say has been something that surprised you about having this sober community and how it's changed your life?
Richard:Well, as I mentioned earlier back when I was 18 and I came out, I faced a lot of self esteem issues which led to acts of people pleasing and doing whatever it took to fit in not just Daily drinking, but also with drug use and risky sexual behavior. Because with me, my addiction also took a turn on my sexual health by all my inhibitions just leaving the door and just putting myself in really, really dangerous, really risky situations of a sexual nature. Stuff that I would normally think twice about, I would just jump right in without even thinking. So going fast forwarding to today. The Sober Recovery Community has given me so many gifts a few big ones is my self esteem. I'm able to look at myself in the mirror and be confident about what I see and be able to express that confidence in a non cocky, but yet non chalant way, like, hey, this is who I am. I have no shames on it. I don't plan on changing it because it doesn't fit into the quote unquote status quo because this is who I am. So I'm also amazed on how I'm able to embrace the evolution of myself. I'm, I just turned 42 last month and I can tell you right now my 40s so far are way different than my 30s, which is especially different from my 20s. So just being able to see that progression and to see that growth and to hear other people. tell me about how much growth they've seen in me. It's it's a huge part of my gratitude was just being able to experience that and being able to experience in sobriety.
Steve:Yeah, I definitely love that. And I feel like without my sobriety, I wouldn't be able to be growing. I almost like back at what, like the last five to six years of like my drinking was, and so much of it was like the same. Day in and day out, like that there wasn't really a chance for me to grow and I might change my settings or I might change my job from one job in the industry to the same job in the industry at a different place. And like I would try these things that were basically trying the same thing over and over again just with the difference, like, slab of paint over it and trying to pretend it's a new situation when it wasn't, and then like wondering why I was still miserable but like there wasn't change. And now it feels like every single time I take a moment to look behind me that the world is different now than it was. a month or even two ago. And it's weird when like, yeah, before it feels like I'd be in the same routine for years on end. And now it's like for month to month, even my life can change. Have you experienced that?
Richard:Yes. And part of what you, the first part of what you just said about doing the same thing, expecting something different perfect definition of insanity right there, which I can definitely relate to. I mean, for me, I was doing the same drugs over and over again. Expecting, Oh, well, I'm finally going to get it. I'll be able to use normally reality. I was facing job losses. People were avoiding me left and right eviction notices health scares. And so now my, I'm not going to say normal because it's 2024. What is normal?
Steve:Who wants to be normal anymore? I don't want to be
Richard:normal. Right. So what I call, so what I consider my daily routine. It's now, you know, waking up, being immersed into my recovery, going to work and being happy to wake up and be excited to go to work instead of, Oh my goodness, what time is, what time is, what time do I clock out today that I can head to the bar or, Oh man, I really did call my dope boy and all that. Now I wake up in the morning, it's like, who do I get to help today? And the best part is I don't look at it as work. I don't look, I call it a career, but I also consider it something that I'm passionate about. That I just happen to get paid for every so often in order for me to take care of natural things like bills and stuff, and to enjoy life. So that's my routine now. It's just waking up and looking forward to whatever comes my way, knowing that no matter what happens I'm going to make it because of my tools and my support.
Steve:Yeah. I know. I know you're going to make it. You are doing an awesome job every day, and I love how inspirational you are online. I know how hard, because I try and do that as well. How hard it can be sometimes when you might wake up and you're not necessarily feeling on the inside, like you want to be that happy person online, but knowing that sometimes we push ourselves a little bit further than we normally would, it makes a big difference to the people that see it, even the ones who never hit like, or never make a comment. So just know that. What you do online definitely makes a big difference for people every day too, in addition to the work you're doing professionally.
Richard:I definitely appreciate that. You know, I don't do it for any accolades. I don't do it for recognition. I do it because someone stepped in and helped me. So this is my way of paying it forward.
Steve:Yeah, and we talked so much about how things in our lives can change and grow and evolve in our recovery to places we couldn't even dream of before. And you did mention how, like many of us, like alcohol and sex can get very tricky and very dark and very tangled. What's that process been like for you untangling it?
Richard:Well, to be perfectly honest I mentioned, I mentioned my drug use, I mentioned my alcohol use, but part of my addiction story was also my was also of a sexual nature. Yeah. So taming that was probably one of the most challenging things. I think a question came up on your Facebook page. Mm hmm. About sober sex.
Steve:How long, how long did you wait? And it was a mix of, I'd not at all or years and years. Like it was,
Richard:yeah. And for me, if I'm trying to remember what my answer was, but I can just go ahead and paraphrase it. I remember answering it in a way of saying, Hey, I'm still trying to figure it out because, you know, I'm a, for lap a, because of lack of opportunity, Some of that's on my part, some of that is on the busy schedule that I have. And B again, just, Because of my evolution, you know, my tastes have changed. What I, what attracts me, what I found attractive years ago, is different than what I find attractive now. And my resilience to rejection, Has increased over the years as well. Years ago, if I get a no off of a hookup app, I would just go on. Well, with me, my life is over. No one likes me and all that. Now I get a rejection. I'm like, Hey, cool. Because I recognize again, I wasn't put on this earth. For everyone to love and everyone to admire and for everyone to goggle over. So, and again, i'm still learning about vanilla sex. I'm still trying to experience it. And where, as in the past, it was a struggle, I now embrace that journey because it allows me the opportunity to meet different people and to explore different things about myself that I never explored before. So I think it's a, it's a fun ride and I, I look forward to being, continuing to be on it as I discover what is.
Steve:Yeah, I definitely can relate. You know, it's, it's always evolving and I've always been fascinated with sexuality. even before, you know, I got sober. So the fact that I get to talk about both of them today, a lot of the times, it's just like, It's just a blast because I think that it's one of those things that a lot of times people don't talk about, but like whether we're having it or whether we're not having it, it's something we think about, right. Quite regularly. And it's a part of like who we are and being able to learn how to do it again. It's a journey. And some of us, it can be longer than others, just like sobriety. Some of us get sober right away and some of us take a while and some of us figure it out, you know, get into a good groove and then we might slip. And, you know, even people who have sex, like healthy sex habits today might not. Run into problems or have to evaluate whether they might need a 12 step program for the way that they handle relationships later on, who knows what the future may or may not hold for us. But I do love that in sobriety, we get to experience and try new things. I recently, in the past four or five months, we've been going to like a leather recovery group at night, like on a zoom meeting, just to kind of spice things up for my normal routine. And it's just been fun again, just like getting to learn more and explore more in a safe place with other sober people. Because They're sober everything if you look hard enough for it. Trust me, I'm learning.
Richard:Yes. And I love, you had, we had talked about that on one on one. I just love the fact that there are more and more safe environments to explore nowadays compared to years ago where it was like barely in existence. So I, I definitely, I definitely love that and still exploring it myself, but at least I know that I can do it in a safe environment as opposed to just jump right into the hookup apps, which. I'm not against hookup apps But just like with anything in life for some people it works perfectly for them for me it's more of a trigger because Of the pnp lifestyle that I used to be in and for those who don't know what pnp is that is a abbreviation for party and play This may have been brought up in previous episodes or not. But But yeah, I tend to stay away from the hookup apps. And so now it's like, okay, well now where do I explore in a safe environment? Yeah. And just the fact that there are options out there and there, especially zoom,
Steve:zoom is great to be able to experience it from the safety of your own home. I don't know whether I would have walked into an in person leather recovery group and I wouldn't have even known what to wear, but I probably would've gotten so hung up on whether I go in normal people clothes to talk about leather or whether I go in leather and the whole idea of what if I got the answer wrong and I was The other person, I probably wouldn't have gone. So like, I love that it was doing, I started with my camera off and it was like, Oh, these, these dudes are all dressed normal and that they were also ladies. And that was also really cool. And that like, yeah, I've just, I've really enjoyed it. So again, it's just, that's something a year or two ago, even being sober, I would have been like, well, I won't do that, but I've learned never say never. Cause sobriety will open us up to some wild, awesome, amazing things.
Richard:Absolutely. Never say never. Oh man. That is something that is a huge mantra with me in my recovery journey of over three years. Four years ago, I would have never thought that I would be invited to join a national panel of my fellow peer support specialists, in which this is panel nine for living experience and advocacy. Two years ago, I would have never thought I would be invited. I was invited to go to St. Louis, Missouri to speak on a national conference and tomorrow I'll be speaking at an education summit with a couple of other peer support specialists. If you would have told me that I would be in a neat peer position. interviewing and hiring peers to help those in recovery and to just be comfortable in recovery and within the community, I would have thought you were crazy. But again, you said you get the nail on the head, never say never.
Steve:Exactly. And with all of those triumphs, bringing it back to your tease, what would you say is one triumph that you're looking forward to and you're working towards?
Richard:Well there's actually quite a few. Again Tomorrow, I get to speak on it at an education summit with over 160 people in the in the mental health field. And I get to be part of a panel of four people to talk about peer support and to connect that with the LGBTQ community and the BIPOC community. So that's a triumph there. Another triumph and something I would never have thought possible. Now, 11 years ago, I received my associate's degree in broadcasting and I thought that was going to be it with my education. But ever since being in this round of recovery and with the career field I'm in, I'm currently in school right now to get my bachelor's degree in human services. Where is that going to take me in terms of my career? I have no idea. Just as most recovery rooms, I'm on the one day at a time mantra. So I'm looking forward to that. I never thought I would go back to school. Especially at my age, I didn't think I mean, you hear people going back to school at any age and being successful about it. For me, it was just something I never thought of before recovery. And in terms of my my journey being of being a person of size recent triumph went to the doctors this past Tuesday and found out that 3 60 in January. And I'm currently at
Steve:337.
Richard:Thank you. I'm really happy at that because part of my health story is I'm also a type two diabetic. So it's been a challenge trying to lose weight and just being able to be open minded, which one thing to recover as long as the open minded, so to be open minded to different health tips and suggestions and being able to incorporate that with my business schedule and seeing the result. Like I feel lighter in my waist side, like my belt's a lot looser, I have more energy, and it just motivates me to keep going. And it also motivates me to discover a new group of people who are through a variety of levels of fitness, and see what's working for them and get together with them. And I also was thinking, maybe not this current season, but maybe a future season of me joining a local softball team.
Steve:Awesome. Well, I can't wait to see what is next for you, Richard. It's been a pleasure getting to know you on a deeper level here and I can't wait for this episode to come out so everyone can get to see how awesome you are.
Richard:Oh, it's, this has been years in the making. And most recently, plenty of trials as well, just to get to this point. Technology is fun,
Steve:isn't it?
Richard:Huh? Oh, it's a, it's, it's wonderful. Excellent.
Steve:Well, speaking of technology, how can listeners use their technology to find and follow you everywhere?
Richard:Well, I am on Facebook. You can locate me at Richard Damien Addison. That's D A M I E N. I also have Instagram. I need to clean up my Instagram because somehow I have two Instagram profiles. So look for the same picture that's on my Facebook, which is a professional, which is a photo shoot, a professional shot of myself behind a blue background.
Steve:Excellent. Well, I will link over to both in the show notes then. So people can find you and follow you on Facebook and Instagram just by clicking on over. All right. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Richard. And we'll have to have you back on soon. Welcome to the gay family.
Richard:Thank you.
Steve:And welcome back. Richard was such a great guest to have. I am so privileged to have him as part of my recovery community. I hope you enjoy my interview with him as much as I enjoyed it. Go follow him if you're not following him already. And while you're at it, make sure you're engaging with us on all the social medias. We go live on episode release days, but we also are doing regular content. I always do a whole lot. The first couple of days after these episodes come out to try and help get the word out that these exist, but then there's social media content going on all week long in my stories and in my reels and everything. So check out. Gay podcast, wherever you social, but especially on Instagram. And until next time, stay sober friends.