#045 Melinda Gerdung on Abusive or Toxic Relationships and Red Flags

You'll hear Melinda and I talk about red flags to avoid toxic or abusive partners and if you're already in it, suggestions on ways to get out safely.  Melinda also coaches those who have gotten out of abusive relationships an how to move on and be happy and get your life back.  You'll hear the main reasons people stay and why it can be so difficult to leave. Also, you'll hear about how you may feel when you finally do escape and might not be what you'd expect.  Listen to learn how to get in touch with Melinda if you need her coaching support.  Thanks so much for listening and if you know someone struggling in a toxic or abusive relationship, let them know they're not alone and maybe share this episode as well.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating. Hello everyone, Tamra here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Melinda Gerdung, and we're going to be talking about abusive or toxic relationships and how to leave them. If you like this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. Thanks for joining me, Melinda.

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

This topic is very timely and uh unfortunately much needed. So let's jump right into how you got started and why we want to talk about this.

SPEAKER_01: 0:30

Yeah, so I am a toxic relationship recovery coach. And I became that because I spent seven years in an abusive marriage. And when I got out, I didn't really find a lot of support for what comes next. And so now I'm really passionate about speaking out about abuse and helping others recover from the effects of abuse.

SPEAKER_00: 0:54

Okay. And then we talked about um there are three pretty much three main reasons why people stay in something like this. Obviously, you know, wisdom tells you just go, but that's not as easy said than done. So what are some of the top reasons people end up seeing?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

Yeah. So I feel like that is a question that gets posed to abuse survivors um all the time is well, if it was so bad, why didn't you just leave? And I think when people ask that, it comes from not really understanding what it entails to be in an abusive relationship because it's it's actually a very complex question. And there are like, yeah, there are multiple reasons why someone wouldn't be able to just go. And some of those are financial and economic factors that that come into play, especially if someone has kids. People who hold more power in society have an easier time of leaving. Right? Someone who has a job can leave easier than someone who hasn't worked for 20 years. Someone without kids has an easier time leaving than someone with kids. And sometimes, even if someone is working, they don't have access to their money, right? Financial abuse can be part of the abuse that someone is experiencing. And so even if they are making money, they might not have access to it. Um, do they have a car? Can they drive? Like, do they have a support system that they can go to? Do they have somewhere to stay? All of these um kind of factor in. And a tricky part can be that isolation can be part of the abuse. So you might have had a really solid support system going into the relationship, but now as you're looking to leave it, that might have kind of been dwindled away. So there's all these very real logistical complications that people are having to face when contemplating leaving.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

Yeah, and I know obviously some of the emotional stuff too. Like I have a friend that just she's like drawn, or like she just, it's really hard to just get over hit the emotional side of it for her and him.

SPEAKER_01: 3:08

Absolutely. Yeah. I I think one of the less talked-about reasons is that it's really painful to give up the fantasy, right? There's probably some part of people that dreams of just having a normal relationship and a normal family where everything is good. And part of the tricky part of abuse is it's not usually like 24-7 abuse. It usually comes in cycles. And one of those cycles is the good part, right? It's the part where he's behaving really great and treating you really well, and it's like a glimpse of the early days or of how you wish things could be. But that phase never lasts, and then it's followed by the abuse part of the cycle. Um, and just kind of goes back and forth like that good part, abuse part, good part, abuse part. But those good cycles like dangle the fantasy in front of you and can make it seem like maybe it's a possibility that it could stay that way, or that if you just do things a little bit different, then it would be like that all the time. And it kind of fucks with your head a little bit. And in order to leave, you have to be able to give that fantasy up. And there's a very real and powerful grief that comes from giving it up, and people uh humans hate grief. We do so much to avoid feeling the things we don't like, but in order to get to the place where you are ready to leave, you have to come to terms with yes, it is a fantasy and it is never going to get better because those relationships, they they never do get better. But until you're ready to accept that, you don't you don't leave.

SPEAKER_00: 4:58

Yeah, yeah. And if and if they do, it's still like very, very, very hard. So I know that's like kind of like what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01: 5:04

How to was it how to leave or what happens after you do end up Yeah, or you do like I did and you leave and then you go back, which is actually really, really common. It it took me two attempts to actually like make it out.

SPEAKER_00: 5:17

So Yeah, and then you said um so once once someone can finally pull away after going back a few times and finally it gets so bad that they leave, and then you said there's some difficulty just dealing with the after effects. And can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_01: 5:32

The other thing I feel like people have to confront when they're leaving, and this will kind of lead into lead into everything, is they have to consider their safety, right? In normal relationships, you right, you can just leave, but in an abusive relationship, it doesn't really work that way. You have to kind of be able to confront your own mortality. So I remember packing shit into my car and just being absolutely terrified that he would come home while I was doing that because I knew I had to be out of there before he got home or I would not be leaving. But I had decided that I wanted out, and out was out, and whether that was leaving on my own two feet or in a body bag, I didn't care. Out was out, but that's a really hard place to come to, and that's something that anyone who lives in an abusive abusive relationship has to has to confront.

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

Yeah, I mean, I guess it gets so bad that you're like over it, like like you said, you can take it one way or the other. That it's just yeah. And then of course there's physical and emotional abuse, or do you kind of lump them together or they or they go hand in hand generally?

SPEAKER_01: 6:47

Fi whether it's physical or emotional, like uh to me, abuse is abuse. Um I don't really I don't really think one is worse than the other. I do think they do kind of go together, but a lot of people that experience emotional abuse might not um experience physical abuse. And that was one of the things that I struggled with, is that mine was mostly emotional. And so I remember kind of wishing that he would just hit me so I could just have an excuse to leave because I felt like I just needed a reason, even though I had all these reasons, but that that's the way that sometimes we get like physical abuse is worse than emotional abuse. It's it's not true, but that's that's how I thought of it back then. And so I don't really I don't really want to make a differentiation differentiation between those two because they're both abuse at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00: 7:48

Yeah, for sure. And I don't know, it's kinda to me, it's kind of like PTSD where it's emotional, it's harder to see it, obviously. But you know, and and it may people might not see the effects as much as physical abuse, so they can help they may even be more inclined to help you if it's physical or more physical if you can see the impact on some. Yeah. All right, and then so what don't I get back to the um what happens after? Like you said, there you can there's times you struggle with that as well.

SPEAKER_01: 8:17

Oh, for sure. Like the and this is primarily what what I help people with because after I left that relationship, I thought that I would just be happy again. And that is not what happened at all. Like I felt safer for sure. Like I did have the sense that whatever happened to me now, I was at least better off because I wasn't living in fear. So I did feel a return of peace that was um immediate, but I was not happy. I had no self-esteem, and I wouldn't say that I had great self-esteem before the marriage, but the marriage decimated the little that I did have. I didn't trust myself, I didn't trust other people. I was crying at random intervals throughout the day. I had so much anxiety, and sometimes was even having panic attacks and like physical symptoms as well, like ringing in the ears, heartburn, insomnia. And I think that sometimes what happens is when you're in the relationship and you're on edge all the time, you're like that walking on eggshells, hyper-vigilant. Like your system is just constantly being pumped full of adrenaline so that you're on this high alert all the time. So when I stopped needing to be on full alert all the time, like when the adrenaline went away, suddenly I could feel all of the things that the adrenaline had kind of been hiding. Like the adrenaline was sort of acting like a pain number. And when it went away, I was like, oh shit, like the bill came due. And so while there are resources to help people leave the relationship, I felt like I didn't really find so many resources for what comes next. Like I tried the counseling service that came with my employment, and this dude just like talked about himself the whole time, and he was like, Oh, yeah, you're fine because I was holding a job. But meanwhile, I was also like crying throughout the day and having random panic attacks. Like, no, I'm not fine. Um, and I'm not dissing therapy here. Like I've had I've had um great therapists, I've been tremendously helped through therapy after I found a better one. I'm just saying it's it's really hard to find the adequate support um for what comes next, or at least that was my that was my experience. And what came next was really overwhelming too. And I remember just being obsessed with the question, does it get better? Like I just really wanted someone to tell me that it would get better. Um, and now I can say that yes, for certain, it does get better. And this is kind of what I have built my six-week program around is in helping people get to the better and navigate the aftermath of those traumatic relationships, right? Building that trust back up with yourself, building the self-esteem, like letting go of some of the the grief and the anxiety that that happens.

SPEAKER_00: 11:19

Okay. Since you brought up your program, do you want to talk about how that people can get a hold of you? And then we'll kind of do well later, we'll talk about what people can do right now that are struggling.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Yeah. So my my they can find me at my website, MelindaGerdongcoaching.com. I also hang out on Instagram, MelindaGerdong underscore life underscore coaching. So those are those are the two ways to find me and find ways to play. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 11:49

And then did you want to talk about your program or or they can find it on the website, I guess. Or you can share.

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

Yeah, they can find it on the website. Feel free, like people can reach out to me on it at any time, like send me a uh message on Instagram. I'm happy to meet with people and talk more about it and see how it would fit in for them.

unknown: 12:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

And then you said for people struggling now, like what they can do. Like if someone's in the in the middle of it, throws of it, you know, what how either how you did it or how how you know it's like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:19

So if you're like in it right now and just need like a little relief, um, I think what happens a lot of the time after you leave an abusive relationship, you end up still being in an abusive relationship. Just this time, it's an abusive relationship with yourself. Abuse survivors tend to be incredibly cruel to themselves and say things to themselves that they would never say to another person. And so I would say to start the process of healing is to start repairing that relationship with yourself, right? And it's okay to start small, like start by giving yourself recognition for doing something that's incredibly hard. Leaving an abusive relationship is so hard. And recognizing yourself for the level of badassery it took you is a really good start. And you can do things like look yourself in the eyes in the mirror and say, Hey, I'm really glad you made it. You were really brave, and just making the commitment to try to be nicer to yourself, right? You don't go from self-hate to self-love overnight, but it starts with commitment to making the effort to notice when you're being a dick to yourself and then apologizing to yourself and starting over with how you know is the appropriate way to speak to a human being, right? I have people, people will tell me, like, I don't know how to be nice to myself. And I'm like, Well, you do. That's not true, because if you didn't know how to be nice to people, you would be a jerk to everyone. So it's like treat yourself as a person. Um, and that's where I would have people start is just trying to be like one percent less of a dick to yourself. And when you mess up and treat yourself badly, you will have another opportunity to treat yourself with kindness when you've made a mistake. Like that commitment, just being 1% less mean, will feel better.

SPEAKER_00: 14:25

Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Are there any other things where that's that's pretty much like how to get out of one too? Is there one that like if you're in it in an actual relationship still? I guess you kinda you described it earlier.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

Well, if you're in an actual if you're in an actual abusive relationship right now, um, I feel like we talked a lot about like what's so hard about leaving. And I do want to make it very clear that in no way am I saying that it's impossible or if you don't have all of these privileges that you can't leave. Like I believe that everyone can leave. Um it's definitely harder for some people, yes. Um, but I believe that even like the shittiest life outside of an abusive relationship is still better than the life of being inside one. Like the life inside one can never get better, it only ever gets worse. But outside the financial and economic hardships that might be present, those can get better. Like those things can be improved, they can be changed. Um, inside you don't really have a chance of a better life, but outside you at least have that chance. And I think that chance is always worth taking. And people are so much more powerful than they think they are. And I know people can improve their lives even if it is hard. And I know even the hard things get easier when you don't have someone shitting on you all the time. And there are resources available for people should they need them, right? You can start making a plan. I think it's really one making the plan is really important so that you can account for all these factors and for your safety, and you can start gathering resources and you can start reaching out for help and finding that support system. I like um thehotline.org is really good for like getting help and resources for leaving. And I personally love um red rover.org's DV um relief program because they provide pet-friendly resources for leaving. And that was one of my big concerns when leaving. Like I would not have left without my dog. So I really, really like that they take they have options for people who are um have animals because that that's part of um abuse is um your animals get threatened too. Like most people aren't gonna just leave their animals behind either.

SPEAKER_00: 16:59

So yeah, yeah, it's good. Are there any books or I know you mentioned this a couple websites? Are there any books that you read that helped you or or even movies that you related to?

SPEAKER_01: 17:09

Just some kind of something that you know was put you over the edge or helped you get out, or I wouldn't point to like a single a single book or a movie. I know that I did go through a phase of like gathering my strength, and I read a lot of a lot of different books. Um I probably could not list them all now. There were so many. Um, I do remember Malcolm Gladwell's um David and Goliath, which is not about abusive relationships at all, but it was about how it was about like how underdogs can win. And for some reason that was like really um inspiring for me. And so I yeah, yeah, I have oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 18:01

Yeah, I recomm I rec I recommend a lot of books on my podcast. So what's coming up for me is the one Solbriety. It's it's basically it's kind of like recovery and like how basically it's re-establishing your self-esteem. So I think it kind of can fit in here just to like learn to love yourself, like you said. And I read a lot of autobiographies. I found those really helpful. Like Pamela Anderson, for example, super smart. She has, you know, whatever reputation she has, but it was a lot of people have the suffered the same kind of abuses and different things. So the hearing their story and how they got out of it, I've always found helpful as well. So just for those listeners out there that like to read, um, if you haven't, I would check out some autobiographies and see if you can relate to some of them about this topic. Anything else that we need to cover um to just to get the highlight. I guess like I guess for me, the emotional, how did you unattach emotionally to get out? Like was there something you had to I guess it was just like you said, it just got so bad that you wanted to get out, but is there a way to like detangle the emotions of it?

SPEAKER_01: 19:08

Yeah, like I talked about, it's it's coming to terms with that that it is a fantasy that you're kind of holding on to. Like the actual relationship, when you start to tell yourself the truth, the actual relationship is terrible. Um, what you're actually holding on to is a fantasy of how you wish it could be. And so once I started like telling myself the truth and like letting go of that fantasy, that's what allows you to disengage emotionally, where you're like, this isn't this isn't good. This isn't it's not real. Like what I'm wanting or craving isn't here.

SPEAKER_00: 19:46

Did you have to remind yourself of that? Or every time something happened, would that be like another like check mark? Like, oh yep, it's it's not a fantasy that I want. Like, was there like did you take notes?

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

I did write myself notes in like I had in my I had a I can't remember the name of the app. I didn't want to use notes. Like I wanted one that I could lock, like password lock, because I didn't have privacy. Like there wasn't, if it wasn't locked down, I wasn't, I was so I did. I wrote myself notes of like what happened because sometimes it was like your brain will like try to forget what happened. Um, and I think that's like a a survival or protection mechanism that it naturally has is to like try to start forgetting right away the bad things. So I would write it down so I could go back and say, Loton, look, you're not crazy. This happened to you, and this is bad. And so just like starting to document so you have that for yourself is helpful.

SPEAKER_00: 20:48

Yeah. And I and I've from movies I've seen, they see that it gets worse and worse. Like the the negative gets to be more of the negative and less of the positive. Like in the beginning, there's probably a little bit of abuse over a 24-hour period, but by the end, it's pretty much constant or or at least it escalates for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 21:06

Like no one, it doesn't start out like this horrible abuse, because you probably at that point you probably would just leave. It starts out really small, and it's small enough where like you might rationalize to yourself, rationalize it away, and then, but in the meantime, it's still like knocking your self-esteem. So by the time it's escalated to the point where you're like, whoa, this is really bad, like your self-esteem is shot. Like, I did not believe in my ability to survive. Like, even after I'm leaving, I'm like, I might not make it. I don't think I can survive on my own. Like, I did not even think I was like capable or competent enough to like make it.

SPEAKER_00: 21:53

True. So, what are some like red flags or signals? Like you said, the um it starts out slow. So I know controlling is one thing.

SPEAKER_01: 22:01

Controlling is a big one. Um yeah, like the the little negative things, like I remember he just he didn't like any of my friends. And he didn't always have a like or couldn't always articulate a reason. Um just I don't like them, right? And it was kind of like so I was like, okay, but if I hung out with them, he would get sulky and pouty, and so it became kind of easier in my life to like hang out with them less. And so that's kind of what happens. Like, it's just like, oh, he just doesn't like them. Maybe we could, maybe there's friends we could have that he would like, but he didn't like anyone, and then and I didn't even realize that until I'm looking back after, I'm like, oh, he didn't like anyone, like ever. There was no one that was okay to hang out with.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

Yeah, yeah, because he wanted you to himself and he wanted to control your situation, like you said, isolate as well.

SPEAKER_01: 23:00

Isolate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

Any other just like the early the early warning signs, like anything else besides not liking friends and controlling any, or is that pretty much?

SPEAKER_01: 23:10

That's I feel like that's that's how it starts. They don't like your friends. There's like little controlling things, like they'll pick on your outfit, like you you shouldn't wear that, that doesn't look good on you, or whatever. But you know, that's not that's not okay for anyone to like for your partner to be like, don't wear that. Um but you like if my self-esteem wasn't like high enough at that point, so when he said that like don't wear that, that looks bad on you, like I was just like, Oh, like, oh thank god someone told me. Um, instead of like realizing hey, that's not cool, like you know, it's just you and I find that yeah, I mean, because this is a dating podcast, so oh yeah, for sure. No, red flags, it's hard to like come up with a comprehensive list because there's so like many variations you could find. But what I will say is that your body knows like you will feel it inside when something's not right, like there will be a little twinge, and if you pay attention to that, like that's really that's your body's your north star, like you'll feel it, and just honoring that feeling and trusting that yeah, I I am something's wrong. I'm feeling that something's wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 24:32

Yeah, and a lot of people definitely ignore that. They just want it, they want the fantasy, you know. And of course, I'm sure they're super charming and charismatic in the beginning, which is why you don't even consider that they're gonna turn into that until they have you and they've knocked down your self-esteem, and then they start, like you said. So yeah, too good to be true, potentially could do go that way. But yeah, that's good. Very good advice to feel it and believe it when you feel it.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

Trust it.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Yeah. Yeah. And was it like did you feel in a certain spot in your body, or are you just kind of like like when something would happen, it would like twinge, like you said, you would feel it in the moment of something that you yeah, it's like a a a twinge.

SPEAKER_01: 25:11

So I tend to feel it like mid-chest stomach area, that's where I feel it. Um, but that's the feeling is just like a kind of like a just a mmm, uh twinge of something, or it's like discomfort, like you know.

SPEAKER_00: 25:32

Yeah. Yeah. And I I've I've actually just talked about this the other day with someone, so it's very fitting. And I use that exact word twinge too. It's just like a little inkling or something just like you know, like it's like a second thought in your head or something. Yeah. But those of us, if you've felt it, you probably know what it is. And a lot of times you ignore it. So many times.

SPEAKER_01: 25:53

I feel like we're kind of we're kind of socialized to ignore it, like be nice, right? Don't if we listen to those feelings all the time, you know, we might not be as nice.

SPEAKER_00: 26:06

We have less people to talk to. True. Yeah. All right. Well, we're getting to the wrap-up stage. Is there anything you want to say that we didn't cover, or just kind of like a parting shop?

SPEAKER_01: 26:18

Parting shop final gift um for listening to those twinges is the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker. Very good for like learning to listen to your body's intuition.

SPEAKER_00: 26:34

Okay, awesome. Yeah, I haven't heard of that one. I sounds like a good one for sure. All right, anything else you want to say before we uh end the episode? No. All right, yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, thanks everyone for listening. And hopefully if you got something out of this, especially if you're in one of those kinds of relationships and you want out, um, it may be difficult, but there's definitely good on the out good on good after. So I would assume that's good. And then if you want to re work with um Melinda at all, she gave you her Instagram and her website.

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

So if you want to give those out again, real quick, or yeah, my my website's MelindaGerdongcoaching.com, and my Instagram is at MelindaGerdong underscore life underscore coaching.

SPEAKER_00: 27:23

All right, and on that note, thank you very much. Uh, we'll end it there. And if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it, especially if they're struggling with this kind of issue, and um rate the episode as well. Thank you very thank you very much, Melinda, and thanks everyone for listening. Thank you. Right dog!