#54 Decoding the Complexities of Sex, Dating and Relationships w/Sex Therapist Jodie Shea

Ready to unravel the mysteries of sex and dating? Prominent marriage and family therapist, Jodie Shea, joins us in a riveting conversation that could revolutionize your understanding of physical intimacy. As we sketch Jodie’s fascinating journey into her career, we uncover the sexual issues that commonly plague couples, like mismatched libidos and performance anxiety, and how they can disrupt your love life. Jodie, with her extensive knowledge, guides us through handling these physical and emotional barriers to enhance sexual functioning.

Our chat then transitions to the tricky domain of physical intimacy, particularly in the nascent stages of a relationship. Who hasn't wrestled with understanding their own comfort level, reading their partner’s needs, or articulating their own desires? Learn how to navigate these murky waters and the potential pitfalls of the prevalent culture of avoidance originating from the dating app world. We also scrutinize the daunting concept of performance in relationships and Jodie’s sagacious approach in helping couples and individuals get to the root of their issues and liberate themselves from detrimental expectations of sex and orgasm.

Finally, the conversation takes a bold turn as we delve into the sensitive topic of size and its impact on physical relationships. Hear Jodie’s enlightening insights from her experience with couples and individuals grappling with size complexities. Discover her expert advice on upholding physical intimacy despite size differences and the implications it brings. We close by underscoring the paramount importance of open communication for maximizing pleasure and sustaining physical intimacy. Tune in for a candid and insightful episode on sex, dating, and everything in between.

Chapters

• 0:00 Sex and Dating
• 8:18 Navigating Physical Intimacy in Relationships
• 14:10 Navigating Performance Issues in Relationships
• 24:35 Expanding Philotalk Therapy and Discussing Size
• 27:50 Exploring Pleasure and Communication in Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Straight From the Sources Mouth podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating. Hello everyone, tamra here, welcome to the show. Today's guest is Jodi Shea and we'll be talking about sex within relationships and dating. If you like this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. Thanks for joining me today, jodi. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yes, when we talked about what you do, it sounded like a perfect fit for the podcast. So I know you're a family and marriage therapist, so what got you into that? And or like what have you seen the most in your clients? I know we talked about, you're going to talk about sex within relationships and sex within dating.

Speaker 2: 0:42

So wherever you want to start with all those three things, yeah, sure, I will say, finding this career path was a little bit of a journey for me and I, you know, did the typical thing a lot of people do, where it's just what did your parents tell you to do and what was going to make some money.

Speaker 2: 0:57

And I realized pretty quickly that sucked and I realized how much effort I put into my own relationships and how much that was something I always wanted and knew would be like the basis of most of my life and I mean it's literally like one of the best retirement plans right On one level.

Speaker 2: 1:13

So I eventually found this career path and so I went into a marriage and family therapy grad program and you know, just that's kind of more of like a general, but I knew I wanted to do relationships and then the sex therapy part kind of found me eventually, because unfortunately there's not enough people that do both, and so after that it was just kind of running it, just it just went. I would say a lot of the people that I see now I have some people I see individually and they're working on relationship things for whatever reason their partner doesn't want to come in or they don't want their partner yet they want to figure out what they even want to say to their partner, and there's a lot of fear involved with addressing relationship and sexual issues. And then I have my people that are in a relationship and I kind of try to avoid the word couple just because I have some clients that are practicing non monogamy, and so, you know, sometimes I'll have two or more people that are joining me there and for them it's a lot of conflict resolution, a lot of attachment issues not that they're coming in always identifying as attachment issues and then, of course, all the sexual issues, libido if there's any kind of pain physical issues, performance, anxiety, all those you know. You know hot topics that people always hear about, but you know they need to go somewhere.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. I mean, it's like the stereotypical thing you hear generally is like sexless marriages and unhappy people, and I was just thinking the other day how they really need to have courses like to teach men, like not just men, but like everyone on like how to have really good sex, like what to do exactly for your partner. Not that this is what we're going to talk about, as I'm holding my microphone, but, um, but, yeah, so let's get right into the sex part of it. So what do you see in the relationship side, like that's the biggest issue, and then what are some things you do to help?

Speaker 2: 3:09

So for the relationship, I mean, when I get trained in sex therapy, you have to look at different levels of types of issues, right, you have like the physical stuff. You know they're having hormone issues. I'm still surprised by like some of these just random things that you would never guess would have any effect over your physical functioning. I still remember one of the examples of that was to ask if they do cycling. If it's a man and he does cycling, it actually ends up pinching one of the nerves there that can then affect, you know, their erectile function. And it was just something you would have never thought of. But it could be such a simple fix. Sometimes we don't even realize because you're not asking the right questions, which you know again, why would they come in, assuming that they would, you know, need to answer that Like, what's your hobbies? Oh, your hobby might be the problem.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And we also have, you know, use of porn and you know all these like negative messages that we're getting the outside world and how does that come into our relationship?

Speaker 2: 4:08

But I would say probably the most common ones would be, yes, just differences in libido and sometimes their interests in the bedroom, but then it's also a lot of it's emotional, let's say.

Speaker 2: 4:21

You know, someone has performance anxiety, whether that be male or female, right, there's also pressure on females to have orgasms and things like that, and you know, knowing the female body, that sometimes is really hard and so feeling that pressure and actually how that kind of builds up and causes them to not have it, can be part of it.

Speaker 2: 4:38

So you know, I see that where, even if it starts as maybe a smaller issue, it just kind of cascades and gets bigger and bigger over time because it gets to be something that they get more and more anxious about it happening in the future. And then we have which is probably a majority of couples there's the other emotional thing of hey, I'm not feeling heard, I'm not feeling cared about, we're not moving at the speed that I want us to, and when I'm emotionally feeling disconnected, I'm then physically feeling disconnected. So, especially for women not saying it's not also the case for some men, but it's more well known that women require the emotional connection to be interested in sex, whereas men are more so getting the emotional needs from the sex.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Yeah, and then that disconnect of not understanding that about each other too, and then yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Yeah, they get pretty stressed about it and then don't know how to communicate about it, and then it's just pile on, pile on pile on the issue getting bigger and bigger and what are some ways you see that helps?

Speaker 1: 5:42

or like what do they? What conversations do they have to? Or like I don't know what. What are some positive cases that happened with you.

Speaker 2: 5:54

I would say one of the most effective things, but also one of the harder things, is helping them understand that it's not always about the sex. That, being a sex therapist, that's sometimes a hurdle that I have to get through with clients is helping them to understand. They come in, they want to focus and they want to talk about sex every single time. And then when I say, well, what else is going on, where else are maybe some of these similar anxieties or whatever presenting in your life? And they're like, no, that feels off topic. I'm coming here for this specific specialization.

Speaker 2: 6:25

But they're kind of not realizing that it's not really about that. It's just a way that the symptom presents, right. So they kind of get too caught up in the facts and the you know, in the, the homeworks and all these things, and then they kind of screw themselves out of actually realizing that this is something that maybe needs to be addressed on a wider scale in their life. And then it's also just teaching them to talk about sex, undoing these messages that we've got that are really bad education and poor messages about what our bodies are supposed to look like and being able to detach from those instead of trying to just meet those expectations and then just being able to talk about what you want. Nobody else is in the room. You both get to decide, you know, or if there's more partners, that's true too. You all get to decide what you want to do, what you enjoy, as long as you're doing it in a consensual and safe way and have fun.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Yeah, I was thinking about my own issues in this Actually. Well, we talked about where we're going to mention dating within sex too, like pacing and that kind of stuff. So right, so that's already on my mind. Let's go there, and then we can go back to relationships potentially, yeah totally so it was what's the biggest. I mean, we talked about this. So, pacing, how is there something you recommend for what you've seen within dating? You know the difference between men and women and like how, what's best or what works or what doesn't work.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Yeah, I think this one is hard because these aren't people I necessarily get in my office, because they're not usually coming in that early, unless they're having problems with dating Right, I talked to my own therapist about those things because I am actively dating. But being out there and this is one of the most frustrating things about being in this field is, you know, just because I know it doesn't mean that other people are maybe at the same stage and also doesn't mean I've worked through all my nonsense either. You know, I'm human as well, and so we were talking about that pacing issue. One of the ones that I've been coming across has been, you know, both partners maybe having different expectations of when the physical intimacy comes in. I feel like a lot of people were trying to, you know, make it okay. If you know you can have, you know, full blown intercourse. You know we kind of say P and V for prevent and graphic nature.

Speaker 1: 8:41

But, we.

Speaker 2: 8:42

You know there's a lot of different types of sex, but when you're talking about you know, actually, like you know, touching the genitals and things like that, that's kind of tends to be like a different category. But we've been talking about when do we hold hands, when do we kiss, when am I hanging on your arm, and there seems to be sometimes a mismatch, at least in some of the dates. I've gone on that where some people want that a little bit early and I'm trying to be authentic and grew it and be like well, let me decide if I like you first, because I don't want to then give you that affection and then have you, have the impression I'm interested and then to just be later, be like, yeah, this isn't going to work out and they're going to be like wait a second, this isn't matching up. So trying to figure out, you know one, recognizing what your own comfort level is with navigating intimacy don't do things that you don't feel comfortable with, but you can. Also.

Speaker 2: 9:33

I'm always trying to check in on maybe what are the needs of the other person to right. It's also makes sense that if they don't even know if I like them, they're going to kind of become a little reserved. They might pull back a little bit and not really be sure how to progress if they don't even know what's going on with me. Right, and then how can I, maybe if I don't want to do physical touch or what's the type of physical touch I'm okay with, but then also we have the other stuff of you. Know, how can I, if it's not physical, verbalize that or provide an affirmation if I am or am not interested? Just to not shoot yourself in the foot either. I just because I've had that happen a few times recently, where people say I'm not really sure if you're interested in me and I'm like, well, you're right, pardon me, doesn't know if I am, but also when I am interested, how would they know?

Speaker 1: 10:18

Okay, yeah, Well, yeah, in my profile I say what my love languages are, so it's a little. That's a helpful clue. But yeah, if you don't know and that's usually something I talk about right away too I don't know if you recommend that or not, because sometimes it feels like if you say what you want, what you're looking for and Like all this stuff of what you, then it they kind of morph into that if they like you or you know. That's like the, I don't know. There's like both sides pros and cons to Asking for what you want or what you like. What are your thoughts on that? If that that's in your lane or not, they're just personal.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah, no, totally is. I. I do love the idea of being clear about what your needs are. I Wish I could say that people handle it better, though I guess that's kind of like almost a test is how do they handle you actually talking about your needs and maybe your expectations for the relationship or things like that? It it's a good test to see if people can manage that, or do they get kind of weird about it or they're like whoa, whoa. Let's take a step back here.

Speaker 2: 11:21

I Using dating apps because that's how I meet most of my dates, just because I'm not great at meeting people in person and also my field is a lot of women mostly so Doesn't really work out well there. Yeah, but it's, you're on a dating app, but I still find it so strange that so many people's data you know their profile, things like that Still don't really actually say what they're looking for in a relationship. I don't know they go rock climbing. I know they play pickleball. I know they, you know, know how to take half-naked gym selfies. One of my male friends is telling me where the things now is women taking pictures where they kind of don't have a top on, but they're like facing, like nature or something, and I had never heard of that because I don't match with women and it was just like it's cute, but also what?

Speaker 2: 12:07

What is this saying about what you're looking for here? Are you including those things? You can be fun, but also intentional, and there's a balance there. So I, I love being direct and, you know, with a little bit of finesse doesn't mean we're hey, let's do all our checklist items on the date, but it's also just navigating how people handle that. That's, I think, why a lot of couples and people in relationships have issues is because the more that you get closeness and commitment and things like that, the more people tend to freak out, because that's when their attachment stuff gets triggered. And that's what you're doing. When you're being direct, right Is you're putting your needs out there and some people are going to be like if they, if they get worried about getting too close or Relationships slightly freak them out, they're gonna maybe pull back a little bit or, you know, respond in not an ideal way.

Speaker 1: 13:01

Yeah, and I've talked to other episodes about the people on the dating apps. Pretty much the most, the majority of people out there are the avoidance because they're the ones that are breaking up more often and getting back on the dating app. So then you have, and then I used to say it was anxious and and and the avoidance. But my guy pointed out, a friend. He said that most of the anxious people are like latching on to whatever they have, so they're out there a little less often and it's really is more avoidance than anything, because the secure people just find each other and match up and stay together.

Speaker 1: 13:35

So it's the rest of us fighting it out, yeah yeah but and it's also off topic a little bit but it's also your attitude about dating, like if you think it's fun, it's fun. If you think it's a chore and you hate it, you're it's going to be a chore and you're going to hate it. So I definitely have a positive attitude and I'm better in person. I mean, I don't minister and meet people better in person, but once I get there, I'm like great on the date and then, when it comes to texting afterwards, that's where I tend to. Lately I've lost my mojo with texting.

Speaker 1: 14:06

But anyway, all right, back to sex within. So yeah, relationship stuff. I think we, if we go back there, like what is your, if people are having issue, like with performance stuff, like with men or women with performance? Like how do you have that conversation so the woman doesn't feel like it's all her? If it's a guy or like and now you know the guy wants, like feels you know one guy mentioned that he'd rather be dead if it didn't work you know, like that's how seriously he takes it so like, how do you have that conversation? Or how can you broach it with people, with your partner?

Speaker 2: 14:38

Yes, I will say I do have that for sure, especially with my male clients. They come in and you have to be basically be addressing the erection issues like every time, like they really want to be a little bit more like action oriented and trying to problem solve that, because their goal is just to get it hard again and then like, but that's part of the problem, right, and trying so hard to do it.

Speaker 2: 15:02

Yeah, but to be honest, I mean, I've had it where women were, you know, also contributing to that issue. I've had it. Some men come in and they're like, well, my wife doesn't want to participate. They said it's my problem, I better figure it out. And it's like that's what causes some of this too is we've all had this, you know, perspective of how sex works and it's just been so damaging for us. So I try to already, you know, depending if I have both there. But even with an individual, you know, just setting the stage that this is a couple issue, is a relationship issue, and so both people participate in that. I do have some people maybe they've gone through trauma or something that might just need like an additional care for themselves because they maybe have a little bit more they're working through. But it's really important for the partner to be able to support them through that.

Speaker 2: 15:50

And so when you're dealing with anxiety issues for any kind of performance, anxiety for males or females, one you have the psychoeducation part about. You know, this is just how your body works and what's reasonable to expect there, and sorry, but it does not get better as we age. So we've got to learn it sooner than later and just to kind of accept some of that doesn't mean there aren't things we can do, but the other part of it is just breaking away from this idea of there has to be penetration and it has to result in an orgasm. We really try to push away from that because if you think about you know most of us when we think about sex we're like it's always gonna might not start there, but it's always gonna end there and that's how we know the interaction is done. Right, both or one person has had an orgasm. Alright, that's the end of it for men. It literally, for a lot of them, physically ends because it gets soft. Women not always. Some don't want to really continue after that. Anyway do sensitivity or whatever other issues. But it's just changing our mindset. So a lot of the interventions are just helping them to mentally understand what's happening and what else is contributing to this.

Speaker 2: 17:07

But it's just detaching from these harmful expectations and being able to, I kind of tell people treat it like a game. You know, it's like those games where it's like oh, the rules just changed, oh, it stopped working or it didn't start. What can we do now? Oh, whoa, whoa, like what are some other things that are fun and just being able to pivot instead of oh my god, this is so embarrassing, this is so uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 17:31

And then they just kind of do this awkward you know, diverging at that point, and then feelings get hurt and people feel rejected and you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, it's like no big deal, let's just find something else to do. We can still have a good time. It doesn't have to be that. But of course that kind of starts to rub up on people's issues. Not everyone feels comfortable using toys or doing other things, or even there are some people that don't even feel as comfortable with manual stimulation or things like that. So it's kind of hard. There's a lot of intermingling of emotional stuff in there, so yeah, and do you have like?

Speaker 1: 18:08

are there success stories where people have overcome what they initially came in for and then they walk out like having either great sex and or great times together?

Speaker 2: 18:19

Yeah, yeah, I would say a lot of people don't stay as long as they could or don't. It's hard because it feels like an optional thing for at least one not usually both partners, it's usually at least one that's really pushing for it. So it's really being investing in the time. Well, my clients that do invest in the time it's been people who are they're making time for it, prioritizing, and they're usually communicating pretty well about it. They've kind of learned to manage like, their emotions pretty well when they talk to each other. They're able to handle conflict.

Speaker 2: 18:54

I do have some clients where, literally, they just kind of needed permission to either enjoy what they liked or maybe it could have been this simple, they could just got permission to change things up a little bit, or it's okay to start where they're at.

Speaker 2: 19:09

I would say a lot of the clients I work with it's not a simple fix, but that's because we kind of get in our own way. Our ego is getting the way and our own little wounds and things get in the way and it's just that's the stuff that is a little bit more long term and helping us to unpack. It's not just about sex, it's about all these other things, even though. We want that quick answer, we want the simple fix. We want oh, if you just to come off that antidepressant that was the whole problem, and sometimes that is the case Could be medical, could be something like that get your hormones checked. For some women who are in menopause, go on hormones, and then I've had someone who's gone the complete opposite direction, so it definitely can be helpful for them to do so. It, just as with anything, takes investment.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Yeah, I had a previous episode. She was a I'm not sure she's a therapist, but she definitely. There was a woman in her seventies that she was ahead of client. She was like having the best sex of her life and was like all about it and so, yeah, it doesn't have to necessarily get worse with age. But you know, that's the generally what's going to happen. But there are circumstances too, and maybe it's easier for women because we don't have the performance part of it. Yeah, first step is there, no matter what we do.

Speaker 2: 20:28

So, yeah, and it's not so much that the sex gets worse with age, it's more so the body tends to not cooperate. You're going to need to. You're going to need to kind of break some of your expectations a little bit more, but that's what's great about it is to be able to free yourself from those expectations of. This is exactly what's supposed to happen. Get it, you're there, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:51

Yeah, and like more foreplay and taking your time and like doing the all the stuff leading up to it, which the women like that part the best. Anyway, it's generally so yeah, I'm gonna have to do that again, all right. And so back to the pacing and the dating thing. Like I just so, I had one one guy on recently who said that women should wait quite a bit actually, and he was saying like the man will be turned down like three times, so like he'll try like every few weeks. So if you're saying like, oh, we're not in it, I'm only going to do this if I'm in a committed relationship, we haven't talked about that yet. So even though I'm very attracted to you, I'm gonna wait.

Speaker 1: 21:30

And then he will say that, or said that women can say that like three times and guys will be fine with it, and even by the fourth time. Then he just like starts to respect it. But he says get as physical as you want to everything but the actual penetration, and minus male woman on male oral sex. Like he says you can receive it but you shouldn't give it unless you're in a committed relationship. If you want it to like, go far. So I don't know if you have thoughts on that or agree? I know some of the women didn't necessarily agree on her, but yeah, I get why people say that.

Speaker 2: 22:06

Because you know there is throw the, throw the chase kind of is a legitimate thing, and we all experience that to some degree. You know it's like the. You know the example in the other direction is like you know, we don't a lot of women don't tend to, you know, get wet panties over the guy. That's like how are you feeling, han? They want, like you know, more of like the bad guy thing, and it's kind of like the same thing in that direction of like oh, you showed me your feelings Gross, like that's not a turn on, or you asked me permission to kiss me instead of just doing it. Ooh, like that's not hot. And so it does go both ways. I understand why someone would share that.

Speaker 2: 22:41

I think it's a little more complicated than that, because it's also like you know, if that is the case, yeah, sometimes you have to play the game, but also is that a type of dynamic that you want to be cultivating in your relationship? You know, if you're, if this person isn't respecting your boundaries, they kind of keep trying, or like it's just, you know it just starts to get a little bit murky when you get into that, because it's also like, again now, the woman. The woman is the one kind of, you know, pacing things and you know, I know, I know I've personally done so much work on just allowing myself to do what I enjoy. Yes, you know, there is something. Maybe first date doesn't mean some people have dated from that, but I've known a lot of times that doesn't work out too.

Speaker 2: 23:27

So I think it also depends on the person, and if it's a person that's like legitimately looking for something, then it can work out. It's just, I think it's not assigning too much meaning to those things, but just being mindful of like what are your goals If you're looking for dating there? I do see people like that where they kind of are just very hypersexual and then you're they're not giving out the message that they're really invested in dating. Right, but maybe they are. So it's less about the sex and more so am I communicating what I want and are my actions in alignment with those things?

Speaker 1: 24:05

I can see someone maybe having that conversation a little bit, but it's definitely a lot going on there, yeah, and it definitely helps to know what you want so you can like actually look for it and ask for it, right? All right, well, we are getting not too close to them, but if I just want to make sure we have time to share, like how people can reach you and if you have any programs going on or just generally, therapy in general or whatever you're going to say to how people can reach you.

Speaker 2: 24:34

Yeah, sure, sure so. So my practice right now is called Philotalk Therapy and it's mainly a therapy practice. Right now I'm looking at maybe expanding and getting a little side coaching kind of thing going in, just because right now I see mostly clients in California and Florida. You know, that's the thing with therapy there's a more of a licensure issue and being able to offer services to more clients. So therapy is just those two places.

Speaker 2: 24:57

I'm on Instagram working on kind of building that up a little bit, but that's Philotalk Therapy as well, and people can interact with me there. You know, I try to, you know, share things like this or share, you know, resources, I know, or just have conversations. I'm one of these people that like loves answering, like the questions and just, you know, not just kind of spewing information to people, but also just being like having it be a dialogue and being like what are their questions. I always get drawn to some of those and and so, yeah, hopefully the coaching thing will be up in the future. It's definitely something kind of like on my immediate list. I've already kind of signed up for like developing it. But people outside of those states can, you know, feel free to reach out and see what I have going on as well.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Okay. Well, thank you very much for that and I'm actually going to look on this thing. We had questions. Well, I don't know I was going to say this. So I did a summit just a couple of days ago with some of my guests fast guests and one of the questions was does size matter? Is that something that comes up in your practice, or or the issues with size or not, or I don't know. I was just curious if that was a thing at all.

Speaker 2: 26:08

It does come up sometimes. Yeah, I would say the times that it's mainly come up have been one it's too large and it's kind of uncomfortable and so you know they do develop things like bumpers and things like that. I would say that one's a lot of a mental thing as well. Right about expectations of like what are you going to get from having a larger penis, like for men and women? Like what's the experience going to be like for a woman if it's a larger penis? But it's not really required, it's more so. I mean, you know a lot of us are, like, aware a lot of women cannot have orgasms from penetrative sex and even when they can, it's usually more stimulated from, you know, the G spots maybe, like finger length in. I mean, that's not a lot, you know. So, yeah, maybe a larger penis can do something, but it's not a requirement.

Speaker 1: 27:00

Yeah, and if anything is yeah, too large is, like I said, right. Yeah, the second part of that question was the perfect size, but obviously that's, you know, going to be personal to people. But yeah, I think the consensus is like girth is better than length if you have to pick one or the other, but yeah, no, yeah, I'd agree with that.

Speaker 2: 27:23

And again, not everybody. Like I said, I have some people where they prefer smaller ones because you know their muscles are kind of tight or whatever and you know the hole is just not as large and it's like that's gonna, that's gonna really suck. This person has different sized penis.

Speaker 1: 27:39

Yeah, and it can be much more spontaneous. You know, if it's you don't have to be extra ready if they're bigger, yes, yeah. All right, I will leave you with a like closing statement or follow up or just kind of like final thoughts, if you have anything you wanted to reiterate.

Speaker 2: 28:00

Sure, yeah, one of the best phrases I love is talking about people are responsible for their own pleasure. You have to communicate about it. Don't expect people to just know what you like. Don't expect that you know the person you're with now is gonna like exactly the same thing as the person you liked before. It's a lot of this process about being present and just exploring and just enjoying yourself and connecting with a person. Don't leave the emotions out of it there's so much more and also just notice what's going on in your mind. You would be able to, you know, resolve so many of those issues by just being present, noticing your thoughts, seeing if those thoughts really are things that you believe, things that just kind of got thrown on you and you know. Then you're kind of off and you've already got some of the base to work off of.

Speaker 1: 28:50

Yeah, good, good Final thoughts. All right, well, thank you very much for being on and, um, yeah, thank you again. And if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and like it and share it. I always I forget my last spiel, but all right. Well, thanks again, frank. Talk, frank. Talk sex and dating educate.