Straight from the Source's Mouth: Frank Talk about Sex and Dating
Are you perpetually single? Do you want longer-lasting relationships? Tired of the miscommunication and misunderstandings? Wish you were better in bed? Advice from experts as well as real talk from real people so that you can see you are not alone in your thoughts and experiences. I talk about sex in my stand-up comedy and people often tell me that I say what they are thinking but are too afraid to say or admit it to their partners; too taboo they think. We'll talk about books we've read on dating, relationships and sex so that you can gain knowledge without having to read all the books yourself. I'll interview people on both sides of an issue: people who are great at dating and unsuccessful at dating...learn from the person who's great and also learn what not to do! We'll do the same with sex and relationships so that you can learn what works so you don't need to repeat others' past mistakes. I'll interview sex coaches and love coaches. We intend this to be a how-to guide. Hit subscribe and join us!
Straight from the Source's Mouth: Frank Talk about Sex and Dating
#61 Online Dating Help with Naomie Thompson and Debbie
Ever felt like navigating modern dating is like trying to solve the world's most frustrating puzzle? Well, you're in luck! Our latest podcast brings the wisdom of expert dating coach Naomie to the table, as she guides Debbie through the winding paths of love in search of an authentic and devoted relationship. With Naomie's deep insights, we traverse the challenges and triumphs that come with seeking a truly meaningful connection, from the initial swipe right to establishing genuine companionship.
This heart-to-heart is brimming with strategies tailored for those ready to balance their personal standards with the art of being open and receptive in the digital age. Whether it's decoding the signals of a potential match or understanding when to let a partner take the lead, we cover it all. Naomie's sage advice is peppered with Debbie's real-world experiences, offering an invaluable look at the green flags that signal a promising connection and the red flags that may hint at emotional unavailability.
By the end of our candid conversation, we believe you'll feel empowered to navigate the nuanced world of dating with a new sense of clarity and optimism. Naomi's perspective on 'rejection as protection' provides a refreshing take on the ups and downs of courtship, and we invite you to absorb our reflections on the small moments that make up the big picture of love. So, join us, contribute your own stories, and let's unravel the beautiful complexity of finding that special someone.
Work with Naomie too! https://naomiethompson.com/
Thanks for listening!
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Welcome to the Straight From the Sources Mouth podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating. Hello everyone, welcome to the episode. This episode is going to be a little different. Naomi is back, who is our dating coach a few episodes ago. She's going to be working with Debbie and potentially Carolyn, but it looks like Carolyn won't make it. So Debbie and Naomi are going to work together and I'm going to let you take it from there. Naomi, thanks for joining both of you.
Speaker 2:Thank you Tomorrow. It's great to be here. This is exciting because, debbie, I don't know you at all and I'm really looking forward to hearing, hearing your questions and hearing you know how things are for you in the whole world of dating and love right now.
Speaker 3:Okay, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:My pleasure, Tell me how are things for you right now.
Speaker 3:Today I would say they're pretty good. Yesterday wasn't looking so good. It kind of depends on the day. I still am getting a lot of people either canceling at the last minute or just totally not confirming plans, and that's so frustrating.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes. What is it that you're kind of? What is it? What's your dream, debbie? What is it that you're really looking for in a relationship?
Speaker 3:Companionship, consistency, honesty. Yes, the goal would eventually be marriage, but I'm not in any big hurry for that, yeah. So I guess what I'm looking for is an honest partner who's willing to do the little things in life, the simple things.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, I thought it'd be really useful if I just kind of ask you some of the questions. I would ask one of my clients and really you know when I work I dive a little deeper. Perfect, just to really kind of find out you know what it is you really really want, what's important to you? And also we can look at whatever struggles you're having in dating. So many women are struggling with how to communicate their wants and needs and boundaries to men, how to go about even the whole dating process. So I can answer any of those questions for you. But I just wanted to say, like if we could wave a magic wand and you had your perfect relationship in front of you, right now is happening right now. Tell me, tell me what's, tell me what you see.
Speaker 3:I see somebody that is patient, who is willing to try new things, and I'm not asking for somebody to like jump off a building, but I'm talking about the little things, like leave a note on your mirror. You know, valentine's Day is coming up, and I'm having complete anxiety about that, because I do have somebody that I quote date, and he's just, once again, no big deal, and so that's why I'm not in that relationship anymore, as you know, a committed relationship Because I want to find somebody who's like hey, you know, in two weeks is Valentine's Day, let's at least go out to dinner, you know, and it doesn't have to be a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it sounds like you're looking for someone who's kind, relationship oriented, ready for commitment, and what would it mean to you to have that?
Speaker 3:Oh, it would mean everything. I know I have to find the special person and you know I don't have any access to meet anybody out in quote, the real world really unless it happens to be at Home Depot or something, and I'm not even in Home Depot. So the internet is my main source of contract and that's how I meet people and I've met some really nice people. I met somebody about six weeks ago and we weren't a romantic match, but we're good friends. He was looking for someone a lot more athletic than I am and he was honest about it and I appreciate that. Yeah, he didn't say, oh, you've got a few extra pounds or whatever. He just said I'm looking for someone that's more athletic and really enjoys golf. Yeah, I'm on the other side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what would you say has been your biggest stumbling block to attracting the kind of relationship you want?
Speaker 3:They go all in and then all of a sudden they start fading out and I'm not doing it, I'm trying to slow them down, saying now you don't know. You know, let's see, let's wait. You know, let's get to know each other. And you know, I'll get a hundred phone calls one day and then 50 the next, and then boot. You know, they just disappear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And how does that leave you feeling.
Speaker 3:Like I did something wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see why you'd feel that. And have you ever had before? Have you ever had before the kind of relationship you're looking for?
Speaker 3:once.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that was a long time ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I um, if I haven't really talked to him on the phone, I've just, you know, text messaged. I will reread the text to see if I can pinpoint something in there, and I really can't. Now, of course, you get the jerks that just want x-rated pictures or you know that kind of thing, and I just don't even count them. You know, I just say next and delete them because I don't have any patience for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, absolutely so. If we've waved this magic one and in front of you you've got this beautiful companionship, you share the simple things in life there's honesty, kindness, kindness, consideration. Tell me about the qualities that a guy would show.
Speaker 3:I think the biggest one for me, like I said, is going the extra mile. You know, not just saying, oh, I've never done that before and, you know, sticking to his old ways of doing things. I'm very outdoorsy, I don't ski or do anything like that, but I like to, you know, go four wheeling. I like to go to the mountains. A man who would say, hey, let's just pick up some sandwiches and head up there, you know, it doesn't have to be pre-planned, yes, yes, you know, and I'm not saying it's all about money, because it's not. Yeah, and I'm willing to do my share, I'm willing to surprise him just as much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you want someone who's really ready for that and tell me about. I'd love to be able to see your dating profile, but tell me about some of the things you've written on your dating profile. We can see whether or not we can tweak it and communicate you in a way that you really shine from it.
Speaker 3:I should have copied it down, but I didn't. I know one of the things that it says is that I'm a country grower at heart, looking for someone who enjoys the simple things in life. And then it says something about let's meet for ice tea or dinner just to say hi.
Speaker 2:Great what I would love for you to include in there. Just say I'm something like I'm feeling. I would love for you to put looking I'm excited, I feel excited to meet a kind, loving man to share my life with.
Speaker 3:I'm going to jot this down real quick. And yeah, and that's, you know what I'm looking for. And you know I do have horses and I don't have them with me right now. He's in California competing, but you know, I like the country music. I like I don't wear boots. I mean I wear boots but I don't wear the whole big belt buckle and that kind of thing. Yeah, you know, I'm kind of more conservative, so I I just I'm pretty adaptable. Yeah, you know, I'm not the black cocktail kind of girl.
Speaker 2:We want to give it, for you to give off the kind of vibe, a real relationship vibe, so that you can start attracting guys who are more relationship minded. Now, some guys don't read the profiles. They'll just like the look of your picture and then so they'll swipe right. But some guys, especially ones who are more relationship oriented, are going to read what's in the profile. My partner still still will say, well, you wrote on your profile this, this and this, that you really love this. You know, if he surprises me with something so he will remember that because that's what he was looking for. So tell me, when you start messaging with a guy, the first messages when you've matched, tell me about what's. You know how it normally goes.
Speaker 3:Well, I have a saying that I put up first to kind of feel them out, and they say hi, how about meeting for Mexican food and a margarita?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's nice, that's lovely and there's there's something about especially the kind of guy you're looking for. There's something about letting a guy pursue you. I'm quite old fashioned when it comes to dating and the whole idea of courting is so gorgeous and so wonderful to men and women. And the old fashioned courting where a guy can court you and for me, what that, what happens is as women, when we are the ones who are taking the lead in the whole dating process often will attract guys who are waiting for us to do that, and these might be guys who aren't motivated to move things forward. These might be guys who maybe aren't as relationship oriented or they they are putting in far less effort. You really want a guy to show his effort towards you.
Speaker 2:So this is a great way to eliminate guys who are maybe more passive, who are waiting for a strong woman to lead the whole relationship. But with a guy like that, you're never going to really know if he's into you. So a great. Would it help you if I gave you some tips on how to open up the messaging, how to start the messaging, if?
Speaker 2:say okay so I know, on Bumble, on Bumble I don't know if you are on Bumble, but you know, often a woman tried it and it wasn't impressed. You weren't impressed with Bumble, Okay. So no, it was not. So if you match with a guy, you've been swiping and you match with him, Then you could just say something like hey, it feels really good to match with you.
Speaker 2:Expressing your feelings is very feminine. It's very feminine and a masculine energy guy, meaning a guy who loves to lead a relationship, a guy who has an energy of he wants to make his woman happy. He's got a provider energy, Even if he doesn't provide financially for you. He's got that energy of wanting to give to you to make you feel happy, and he'll want to lead the dating process and the romance that comes with it. So he is going to want to take the lead. So as women, it's really great for us to be receptive and to invite him. So what we don't want to do is say, hey, should we meet for coffee? What you could do is just look at his profile, see if there's something you like about it and say hi, I just had the biggest smile when I saw a photo of you with your horses. So did you notice what I was doing, rather than saying, oh, shall we meet for Mexican food? Versus what I said, could you feel the difference there?
Speaker 3:Right, it was kind of opening up for him to feel good too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I was saying was opening up. So what happens is there are three wrong paths to love and one path that gets there every time. And the three wrong parts to love are the mind, the body and the spirit. Now, the mind, the body and the spirit can definitely be part of a beautiful relationship. But the mind is where our intellect connects with his intellect. But at best you're going to have a great friend or a good business partner.
Speaker 2:Body, sexual connection, sexual chemistry again, that's a wonderful part of a relationship but it will not create love on its own. And the spirit is the spiritual connection which, yes, you can have a great spiritual friend and someone you pray with or meditate with, but the real way to have a heart to heart, loving, fall in love with you forever kind of connection is creating an emotional connection. And the root to that emotional connection is often the woman creates that with a little fly here. Often the woman creates that with her feelings and how vulnerable and open she's willing to be with her feelings. So telling a man how you feel about things, just saying I felt so happy when I saw that picture of you, or so telling a man how he impacts you, is going to make him feel good.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, definitely. I have been talking to someone that I'm supposed to meet tonight, and I've been talking to him for about a month and he's in school too, and so he had plans for the next up until now. So I'm very excited, but he's very. Where would you like to go? What would you like to do? And I did say that. I said all I want to do is get to know you better. Okay, and I'm open for a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:Great. So how about you say to him I mean, are you still in this conversation about what do you want to do? Where do you want?
Speaker 3:to go. Yes, yes, he's going to call me this afternoon.
Speaker 2:So you can say to him that's so considerate asking me, and I love surprises. He's talking about food. You can say, well, I absolutely love Mexican and I love Italian. Surprise me. So that's very different than saying, oh, I know a great Italian restaurant around the corner, why don't we go there? Because what that's doing is taking the masculine lead rather than allowing him. We want to give men opportunities to surprise and delight us.
Speaker 3:I may have already messed that up. I did look up. He lives about 20 minutes from here and I did look something up online and they have what they call a Western room and he's never been there. Yeah, it's like a meetup dinner house. Yeah, where it said it was quiet enough to talk blazing fires, you know that kind of thing. It's not a bar, bar, but kind of along the same ideas. I'm not much of a drinker, so sometimes that poses the problem. It's not because I've ever had a problem drinking, it's just not my big thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And if that's important to you, you know you stick with that, no matter what anybody else, whatever, any man does. So you've not messed anything up. You've not messed anything up at all. And what you can do when he calls is say, well, this place makes me feel really relaxed and also I'm open to your suggestions. What do you think?
Speaker 3:No, neither one of us have ever been to this place, yeah, so that's what I caught was kind of fun too, is that it's not somewhere that either one of us have already tried?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, I've got it, so you can say what well I felt. Well, how did you feel when you saw this place with the blazing fires and the cozy and nice you know quiet, that you could speak?
Speaker 3:When I saw the pictures I thought, wow, that really looks like me, somewhere I'd like to go.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, just say I felt really intrigued by this place, but at the same time, I love surprises. So as long as we get to meet, I'm happy. What do you think?
Speaker 3:And that's pretty much along the lines of what I said, because I actually approached him first. Should I say where I met him? Yeah, it was on plenty of fish and I sent him a message first and he answered me back and he just said sounds great. And we've been talking back in four cents.
Speaker 2:Wonderful, wonderful. I met him on plenty of fish. It's great there's so many people there.
Speaker 3:There's two sorts those are the ones you want to get to know, or ones that weed themselves out quick.
Speaker 2:And that's what we want. We want the guys to weed themselves out quick. So what you can do, yes, so you approached him first and you've suggested the place, there is nothing wrong with that. But what we want to do from now on is we want to let him court you. So if he says, well, hey, debbie, I've had a great date, can we meet again? So you would then tell him how you feel about meeting him again. You know, that would feel great, that would feel lovely. I felt really relaxed with you. And then if he says to you, well, what were you, you know, what were you thinking, debbie, where do you want to go? You can say surprise me. Okay, say surprise me. I trust you to find somewhere nice.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, yeah, and you know that's kind of where our conversation has gone. He seems to be definitely, and I have let him basically call the shots of sending me messages. First I was kind of teasing him because he said he hesitated to call because he was a little shy. And then he did call with the excuse of I have to run into the store, but he was still sitting in his car talking to me and he's like I really need to get in there. But then he would say something else. So it's like we had a lot in common. And he does, even when he's in school, sends me messages and I've inquired about what he's going to school for and you know the conversation seems to flow.
Speaker 2:That is wonderful. So you're going to look out for the green flags there and the green flags are. His energy is coming towards you. He's messaging you, he's following up, he's interested, he's asking questions, he's making the effort to make time for you. Even when he feels shy and embarrassed, he's actually still picking up the phone. So he's actually working. He's working a bit harder and men really value what they work for. So that is wonderful. We don't want to be meeting guys who are slick on the dating sites, because if they're really slick on the dating sites, they've probably been on a lot of dates with a lot of people. And actually it's wonderful to meet a guy who's a little bit clunky on the dating sites because, no, he's just really real and genuine. Um, you, debbie, you asked about these hot and cold guys. So guys will be sending you 100 messages and then suddenly, poof, they've disappeared.
Speaker 3:Right, yes, and I just don't understand because, like I said, I've gone back through and read my texts and it's like did I say anything? And it's like no, um, it's almost as if you kind of try and pinpoint them down or what would you like to meet? But some of them I haven't even asked that. Yeah, I had one that I was talking to the last few days, up until yesterday, and we were supposed to go out last night and I mean unreal how many times he had called and messaged and then just nothing. Yeah, and we had already set a time and a place and you know. So I sent one message saying are we still on for tonight?
Speaker 2:And then did you hear nothing, nothing. Okay, so what happens here is we start wondering. We go up in our heads and start thinking what did I do wrong? The truth is, the whole world of online dating is full of people who are wounded from past relationships. They've been burnt. They may be wounded from childhood, as so many of us are, and those wounds come out in different ways and some men and some women, but particularly many men, become quite fiercely independent.
Speaker 2:Some people call it more avoidant attachment style, but very fiercely independent, in that they will maybe want to jump in really fast and message and do all the kind of getting to know you quick over messaging, but then actually they may will have a very low tolerance for intimacy and for the kind of relationship that you're looking for.
Speaker 2:So, if we can just see it in a very matter of fact way, you're not doing anything wrong. You know there isn't a one particular series of steps. That means that you are going to either be doing it right or doing it wrong, but you and and what you're looking for somebody else may not be ready for, and if they're not ready for that, then they are going to cut and run and some people don't have the emotional maturity to actually just pick up the phone and have that difficult conversation or send the message. It's easy for them just to drop off. But what that shows and the red flag that's waving there is emotional immaturity and what you're looking for this honest, patient, kind, loving man to be your life partner and future husband. And someone who's emotionally immature is not showing good partnership potential.
Speaker 3:Very true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they also say rejection is God's protection and and you know I believe that that if I, my friend and I, we've said friends.
Speaker 3:he and I joke about dodging a bullet.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and that's why I don't. I always say to my women that I work with and it works so kind of just works so well for them. You know, they go right through. The women I work with go right through from dating right through to marriage and and they are in relationships that are completely different from any they've ever had. Because I say to them in the very beginning the only effort you're putting in is being warm and receptive and open. I don't want you jumping in planning, the dates organizing, because what happens is when we do that, we can be putting in so much effort that we're blind to the lack of effort that a man is putting in. And because, I said, men really value what they work for. A man really will really feel good when he's working hard to make his woman happy. Now, of course, we're going to give, but actually can I share with you a dating story that's going to really illustrate this?
Speaker 3:I'd love that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went on a date with a guy and we were just walking to the restaurant and we were talking about food and I said to him I said always food the way to your heart. Then and he said well, not really. He said but I did have this girlfriend and she was a great cook. She'd cook me lovely food. And then he said the relationship should have ended far earlier, but she was such a good cook and we had great sex so you know it was worth sticking around for and in that moment I just went. Exactly this is what I teach my clients you have to see the man's effort coming towards you because otherwise you can compensate. And so often as women we are so giving and so nurturing that we will compensate for a man's lack of effort, and then we don't get to see that actually, maybe he's actually not that into you and some women are with guys like that for years. So, yes, this guy dropping off yesterday it's like we can celebrate he's disqualified himself from being your man.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, that's very helpful because that is exactly the scenario that I can see Now. I am very, very cautious and dating. I would not walk to a restaurant with a man I didn't know. I prefer to meet them in the restaurant. I would not invite somebody to my home, obviously, that I didn't know. I read these stories about people who met at the restaurant and then they went somewhere else. I'm not getting in some stranger's car. I've watched Dateline. The most important thing to me is safety.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you're taking good care of yourself and that also goes Look back, debbie, at the clues of when you are dating someone who's a bit hot and cold, like, look back at the clues at very, very, very early on. They're inconsistent messaging or you're feeling a bit unsure with them and those clues can be your allies so you can actually look. If it doesn't work out with this guy tonight, you can actually really get clues early on and not put minimal effort in with guys who are kind of hot and cold. And if you're going to meet a guy, a wonderful thing to say to him when you've arranged the time and date, just say it really makes me feel comfortable having confirmation of the date, the date, the evening before. Is that something you're happy to do? But that would show consideration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then what you're saying, what you're getting, is two things. One is he knows that you are somebody, high value woman who actually needs communication, and you are also knowing that if he doesn't contact you the day before, likelihood is you just make other plans for the next day, just make other plans. And if he calls you an hour before the date and said hey, are we still on, you can say oh, my goodness, I'm so disappointed. I've made other plans when I didn't hear from you, but I'm free on Thursday. Do you see? You're not left waiting for somebody.
Speaker 3:That kind of reminds me of that book, the Rules, I Read 20 years ago. You know it made a lot of sense. Some of it was a bit over the top, but about not being available at the last minute and you know that kind of thing. And I am not in the future to jump into a physical relationship, because it seems like that happens far too often, and then you realize that you don't have anything common.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, absolutely. I mean, Debbie, you to me seem like a woman who really knows what she wants. You've got your open, you're ready for a relationship. You've got a lot to offer and I think it's just going to be little tweaks in the clues, the red flags and the green flags that you're seeing and also remembering. It's not personal. You will either fit with. You know you'll either align with a guy who's looking for what you're looking for and is really drawn to you, or you won't. And also something I would just love you know, I believe very strongly, is that you can't do the wrong thing with the right man, and the right man for you is going to do whatever he can to stay in your life. He is not going to drop out of your life.
Speaker 3:Very good words of wisdom. I'm writing that down.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That has been very helpful.
Speaker 2:I'm really pleased, debbie. I'm excited for you with your date tonight. I hope it goes well, please, please, let me know.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I'm excited too I. There's something about this guy that makes me feel like he's a lot more open. He's a lot more hoping to see if he could find a companion.
Speaker 2:Great. Yeah, the way you're speaking about him feels like that as well, so all you need to do is just see if there's a connection between you both, that could very slowly grow.
Speaker 3:Perfect. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Debbie, it's my pleasure, so lovely to meet you and, as I said, please, please, let me know, please, let you know Tamara know how it goes, and I'd love to hear.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, thank you guys both. That was awesome. I wrote down all your the three wrong paths and the emotional connection and great advice for Debbie. So thank you very much for being on both of you and if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it. Thank you very much again for being on. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Frank talk. Frank talk sex and dating educate.
