The Wellness Inspired Podcast
The Wellness Inspired Podcast
The Glorious Gut Biome | Shana Tatum
It's hard to believe that we humans are mostly microbial bugs. They outnumber our human cells ten to one. When the microbiome is healthy, we thrive, but when our little friends are out of balance, it can affect our immune, metabolic, and brain health, leading to various disorders. We are just touching the surface of our little friends' importance in our health and wellness. In this episode, we dive into the gut biome with registered Dietitian and Nutritionist Shana Tatum. It's packed with a lot of great information you can use in your daily life. Of course, it will inspire you in the pursuit of wellness.
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Shana Tatum
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Book: 9 Hungers
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Resources
[The Microbiome | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/microbiome/)
Hi, everyone, you are listening to the wellness inspired podcast. I'm your host, Sheri Davidson. And I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I know I did, I got to engage in some of my favorite things, spending time with my family and my home. And I think what's so special about that, for me is I get to hold the space for my family to come together, to cook together and eat together, and enjoy a little drink together. My preference is wine. But it's a special time for me. And so special moments that I will take away from my Thanksgiving day. You know, we all know the holidays can be stressful, chaotic and crazy. They pass by quickly. So I hope you take the time to find those special moments that bring you gratitude and joy throughout your holidays, the moments to remember, because with a snap of the fingers, we are on to the next celebration. And speaking of moving on, we are on to the second episode of this podcast. But before we move forward, if you missed the first please check it out. It was with Keaveny on spiritual direction and animal communication. She supports spiritual seekers, as they confront their shadow selves, discover their divinity and fulfill their unique purpose. She also has a great story of her own. She went from a successful law career to spiritual direction and animal communication. The catalyst to this change was her dog. And that's all I'm gonna say here. So please check it out. And let me know what you think. I'll put the link in the show notes. So you can click and listen. This episode is the glorious gut biome with Shawna Tatum, and I am super excited about it. It is packed with a lot of great information I think you will enjoy and information that will be useful for you in your daily life. And of course, as always inspire you in the pursuit of wellness. All right, well, let's jump in the glorious microbiome. You know, I read a great analogy on that new nutrition source of Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health website, and I'll share it with you here. So picture a big bustling city on a Monday morning, the sidewalks flooded with a diversity of people rushing to get to work appointments, meetings and daily errands. This high activity is active and energizing. The city is thriving and prosperous. Now, imagine this high activity and bustling city on a microscopic level. This is what the microbiome looks like and operates in and on our bodies. It consists of 100 trillion micro organisms of 1000s of different species. This is also known as the microbiota or microbes. It includes bacteria, fungi, parasites, viruses, protozoa, and they all live on in the body. However, the majority live in our small and large intestines. And this is referred to as the gut biome. You know, it's hard to believe that we humans are mostly microbial bugs, they outnumber our human cells 10 to one, this microbiome is so extensive, some label it a supporting organ, because it plays many key roles and promoting a smooth, daily operation of the human body. And a healthy person. These bugs coexist peacefully. But when our friends are out of balance, it can affect our immune health, metabolic health, brain health, leading to an array of disorders. And we are just touching the surface of the importance of our friends and the role they play in our health and wellness. Unfortunately, many of us have an impaired gut biome. And this is called dysbiosis. And mostly due to lifestyle and aging. It's many years of following diets that are high in processed foods and sugar, conventionally raised meats, dairy products full of hormones, plus rounds and rounds of antibiotics to many anti acids and chronic stress. With all that said, let me introduce my next guest, Shawna Tatum. She is a registered dietician nutritionist that follows a personal functional nutrition approach, finding wellness through the power of food, balanced with good sleep, daily movement, stress reduction and meaningful relationships. She deeply believes optimal wellness and vitality can be realized. She is also a member of the dietician in integrative and functional medicine practice group with the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, and a member of the Institute of functional medicine. When it comes to gut health, Shauna recommends eating real food, getting more fiber, sleeping well for a healthy, vital life. Let's dive in to the glorious gut biome with Shanna Tatum. Hi, Shauna, welcome.
Unknown:Hi, Sherry. So happy to be here with you today,
Sheri Davidson:I am so thankful that you are taking the time out to come and hang out with me and chat a little bit about the microbiome. fascinating. It's fascinating. It is something that has been the more and more research is being done on it. And we are finding these amazing health benefits not just immunity, but a wide range, right. And it's it's it's this new frontier of science, I think, and, you know, you hear a lot about probiotics, and the gut biome, but I thought it'd be really great just to really dive into it here. You're You're a registered dietician and functional medicine doctor. You're passionate about the biome. And we've talked about that before. So I think you're the perfect person to dive in deep with
Unknown:Yes. So just a quick correction. I'm not a doctor, I'm a dietitian. And I do follow a functional medicine model, which is really just looking at Whole Health, I think it's the way medicine used to be practiced. And looking at gut health is kind of the foundation of so many places where we start to look when people are showing these imbalances. So it's natural that the science is starting to show these benefits of the microbiota and what they do for us. So just to kind of give you a big picture view, we have somewhere around 100 trillion micro organisms from our mouth, to the anus. Wow, that's a lot. It's hard for me to really wrap my mind how many that is a lot, and the research and the, you know, the over the counter probiotics that we get may have four to 10 strains of probiotics. And so that's a pretty small amount compared to 100 trillion. So I think we're just beginning to start to understand what is there? And then what are the health benefits that they confer? So of that 100 trillion, we start to think about, well, what are the things that they really can do for us. And just for today's discussion, we could focus on immune health, which you've already highlighted, but also metabolic health, we're starting to see more and more changes in people who are obese or overweight and the types of Colony units that they have. And so metabolism is another way that they help us. And then our brain health, really helping to regulate our neurotransmitters and how well they how well we can produce them, as well as how much we can utilize them. So those three areas immune health, metabolism, and brain health are really three key places that we can discuss today.
Sheri Davidson:Well, I think they all seem fantastic. And I don't know if you guys can hear Finn, my dog in the background, but he is he's speaking a little bit happy about the microbiome probably will not be the last you guys hear of him? Oh, I think we I would love to talk touch a little bit on all those topics, we can just see where the conversation leads us. Because I think they're all really important discussions. So I think what I would really like to start with is a definition of a probiotic. A probiotic
Unknown:is a living organism that is in the body to confer some kind of health benefit. Living is the word there although as we're talking about research, there is some data to show that even dead fragments of probiotics can be useful and I think we're starting to see some uses of that in treatment.
Sheri Davidson:Do you what does it treat is are there specific things that
Unknown:there's a biotic st No, you
Sheri Davidson:said the actual because probiotics are supposed to be alive we what we know is that they're supposed to be alive for for To be effective, right, but you said that there's some you say studies?
Unknown:Yes. So I think it's probably looking at inflammatory condition. Yeah.
Sheri Davidson:Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. So there's a company, you probably have heard of them seed. I think we've actually talked about them before I heard an interview with them. And they're really trying to set some industry standards around probiotics, which I think is good, because marketing has diluted and it's kind of a loose term now. So it's kind of what exactly is a probiotic biotic and I think that'd be really great to talk about here. But they the way they define it was exactly how you defined it. And then they added that it had it should be tested in the human population, for that claim that you're making. Right? I think that and I think that's good for because robotics is on everything now. Yeah. So how does how does the consumer sift through all of that information?
Unknown:Yeah, well, that's the hard thing, because probiotics just like all other supplements, multivitamins, magnesium zincs, vitamin C, you know, quercetin, all these things that people are being told to take during COVID? There's not a regulatory body to oversee, and really show that what's in the bottle is actually what you're getting? Yeah, there are companies that will test that you can, you know, that those companies will have on their label like USP and NSF will will show that these things have been tested and, and really are what they say they are. Yeah, but I do caution a lot of my patients about not ordering supplements and protein powders, meal replacements just from, you know, these large online sellers, because we don't really know where they're coming from, or how long maybe they've sat in a hot a hot warehouse. Because some probiotics, you do need to refrigerate Yeah, others you don't. And if you are just ordering it from a big company like that, that's not the manufacturer or from your healthcare provider, then you may not really be getting what you think you are.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah. So what is the difference between, let's say, a professional grade probiotic, and then something you might see in a yogurt.
Unknown:Yeah. So those usually a professional pharmaceutical grade have been third party tested. And those companies use protocols and testing and, and source ingredients from tested companies. That that would be one thing. The other thing is that usually they're doing some kind of clinical study to show the efficacy or the benefit of their products. That's also a benefit of using a pharmaceutical grade or a professional level of product. But there are some pretty decent over the counter probiotics that you can buy. And I think that are good for you are not going to cause a problem, I do encourage my patients to start with a low dose to begin. One of the things that I was reading recently was our genetic material is about 99%, the same human to human like yours and mine, we have about 99% of the genes in common. But only about 10% of our microbiome is the same. So that means 90% difference. So while I might recommend for my patients, standard strain of probiotics that would have some lactobacillus strains and some Bifidobacterium strains, those are the two that we see the most and research is conferring benefit. You may not do so well with that. So if I have a patient who has a lot of allergies, let's say and maybe having a high, what's called histamine reaction, there are specific strains that we want to avoid, because those are histamine producers. So just if you're getting something on your own, start slow with it. Yeah, and then build up a little bit over time, just to be sure that you're not having any kind of reaction to
Sheri Davidson:it. So you're saying that 90% of our genetics is the same, but 10% of our biome, our microbiome, not just the gut, but the microbiome
Unknown:overall overall and nasal different yours. Yeah,
Sheri Davidson:yeah. And that is what makes us it's interesting
Unknown:too. Because when we go back to that 100 trillion micro organisms, yeah, so their genetic material was somewhere around like 3 million. Our genetic material is like 23,000. So we're really a lot more genetic material effect. Tyria and yeast, yeah, than we are human. And if only 10% of that is similar, you know, in every person, how much of our expression or what you call our phenotype is based on the bacteria.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. Um, I just I've yet I find it fascinating. And if you think of, you know, I heard somebody describe it as like, like, we are an ecosystem total. And like, if you think of a rainforest, like, we don't think of ourselves like that. Now,
Unknown:we don't. And I'll tell you, I had such an eye opening moment, I worked on a regenerative farm for about three months, because I really wanted to understand where our food was coming from what the food system was like, and really understand soil health. Yeah. And there's just this amazing overlap of the soil, and the, the all the microorganisms and that ecosystem, compared to our ecosystem of what's in the gut. It's very, very similar. And just like in nature, we see all the time, these copies of things that are just repeated these patterns that are repeated and are so successful, that once I started getting a better understanding of that, then it made more sense to me that all of these other effects of the body can be expressed or silenced to I mean, we have genes that can be silenced based on our the food we're eating, the way we're sleeping, how we move our bodies, how we're managing our stress, all these
Sheri Davidson:fit the epigenetics. Yeah, completely. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's yeah, it's fascinating to you know, also think of what like I said, our body has an ecosystem, but we don't think of food as information either. Right? Right. Like, we just see the pleasure in it and how it tastes we don't really think of it as it is feeding, not just your appetite, but the appetite of your whole microbiome. Oh, yeah. And then and then like, going back to the soil, it's if that soil is not populated the way that it should be, or if it's not being taken care of, you can talk about that. I think that'd be a great like food meditation I've ever done like a food meditation. Yes. Did you? I think it'd be great to think like, you know, like, how it is, informing your body to perform? Absolutely would be an interesting meditation lately.
Unknown:Yeah. It's, it's amazing. All these things. And again, maybe we know this much just a little bit like you do about the gut health. Yeah, but I think that we have a lot to learn from what the soil is doing. So that we can apply that to human health.
Sheri Davidson:So why don't you talk about that a little bit. Um, I know conceptually, like we're not getting or our soils are depleted, but I don't really know what that means.
Unknown:Well, they don't have the same you know, industrial farming has gone to using fertilizers and soil enhancements and tilling the soil, rather than doing cover crops and letting the soil regenerate and gain nutrients from those, you know,
Sheri Davidson:until I see, okay,
Unknown:just like yes, like you tell your patients all the time, probably when they come in here for accurate, I'm sure. And I can speak as a patient of yours, that you're you're resting, you know, I'm really letting my nervous system shift from this fight or flight mode into the rest and digest mode. Yeah, and I as I'm laying there, and and these points that you've determined need attention, I can really repair and regenerate. That's the beauty of that nervous system is the same thing in the soil. Once we let those microbes take nutrients from these cover crops and more from the rain and the sun, then then it's depositing not only minerals, but it's also harnessing carbon from the atmosphere to improve our overall health as we're talking about climate change. So there's so many levels to which our food systems and what especially when it comes to farming has changed, that we're not so the soil is not as nourished as it used to be. Our practices are just different the way we water how quickly we harvest so that it can get from travel Mexico or California, you know, here to Houston or to the east coast. So and and then There's the whole genetically modified conversation. So there's so many different inputs, I think that we have now that that have changed what we're eating. But that when we can just as you say, kind of meditate on the concept of food as information. Yes, we do want food to bring us pleasure, of course. And we do want it to bring community that we come around the table and share together, you know, I have three boys. And it was imperative, at least on the nights, we weren't at soccer practice, to be sitting down and sharing the day over our meal. And I understand that's a luxury not everybody can have. But when you do, it's important. But as we sit down, and we pile on, you know, the pleasure factor and the community factor and the cultural factor, there are all these other things that layer but at the essence, our food is directing cell membranes to be made. It's creating sex hormones, it's repairing DNA, it's feeding those micro organisms. So every decision you make, for what you put at the end of your fork, is directing your health. Yeah, yeah.
Sheri Davidson:You know, going back to sitting down and eating with your family, that is something that's how I grew up. And it every night, we ate together, that's great weekends, we had breakfast together. And it's the one thing that I remember the most about my Yeah, we I mean, we just, we just would hang out in the kitchen together. And we still do that today, when I go visit my parents it is I know we're going to cook something, and we're going to hang out in the kitchen, and we're going to talk, you know, eautiful
Unknown:I hug your mom if she would I know.
Sheri Davidson:It's just it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really something that I just, I will always remember and I'll always take with me, right? At the, the experiences of just that connection. And and we and we were just a family that loves food anyway. And you know, I grew up on a very American diet, but it was a healthy, more of the healthy side. Like, my dad's still believed in fresh vegetables and cooking, you know, cooking mills and stuff going out to eat. So but I still had that kind of standard, you know, I'd come home from from, you know, volleyball practice and how to fry daddy. Yeah. And it was eggrolls and cheese sticks and pizza rolls. So I had this, you know, I had this kind of combination. But yeah, I think that's very important. And nobody really wants to think about the information that they're there. It's not fun to think about,
Unknown:right, but what we see is even just taking a moment when you're sitting down to eat, if it's prepared food or your own home cooking, if you can just have a few minutes to look at your food take in, you know, think about the texture and the colors, hopefully there's a lot of colors on your plate, that that Prime's the brain to activate release of saliva. And that's where you know that first digestion of carbohydrates from amylase happens is in the saliva. And even just talking about my mouth, no one has many years. So if you're listening, and that, that improves our digestion and then that signaling to goes to the stomach to release more stomach acid so that we can better digest our protein. Because one of the things that can happen with the microbiome is if we don't have properly digested food, they they love our food. I mean, they're very important in helping us digest it, particularly all the fiber and cellulose. And, and, and that's what they use to then make these they're called metabolize these end products that that help us be healthy. And so if we give them too much, that's not digested. They can become opportunistic, is what we call it that can kind of overgrow, and you can start to have an imbalance. Some practitioners call it dysbiosis of the gut bacteria, primarily in the colon, but it can also happen in the small intestines, where that then starts to crowd out more of the good guys would call them the commensals. And so then you start to kind of have some imbalance in your digestion, your you could have changes in mental health, you could have constipation or diarrhea. You could start to see changes in your immune health so little things can really start to offset the balance. And so taking a few minutes to have have gratitude at your meal and just just look at it can improve your digestion.
Sheri Davidson:It all starts in the eyes. Yeah, we eat with our,
Unknown:with our nose, our ears. There's a whole thing called the nine hunger. So really, of really looking at all these other ways where we interface with food. That is an interesting read. Oh, really?
Sheri Davidson:Is it a book?
Unknown:I I'm embarrassed. I can't remember her name. Maybe I'll get it and you put it in the show now.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah, yeah, I can put it in the show notes. Um, yeah, I love food. I love I'd love looking at it. And, you know, just another story when I was in my was in my 20s. I might have been in my 20s. I was in Europe, I went backpacking across Europe and with a friend. And we were in Amsterdam. And I have to two stories when I was on the train. And I remember, look, I was watching, I'm just observing, and it was like a grandmother and a granddaughter. And she had this beautiful ornate box. And she opened up that box, and there was this bright red tomato. And she made them sandwiches on the train. I had lunch with them. They didn't know it. But there was just something about that moment that I've never forgotten about being on that train. The connection between a grandmother I'm assuming, and her granddaughter, and everything was just this box was beautiful. The food was beautiful. Yeah, that's what I ate with them. And then another time, we were at the Van Gogh Museum, and there was like a food chaos right outside. And they were selling sandwiches. And again, it was these beautiful, green green lettuce with these beautiful tomatoes actually have a picture of me eating. But it was just visually was just it just, you know, it just started everything and just made me hungry. Yes. To see that. See why. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit more about the health benefits of the gut biome. We've talked a little bit about immunity. I know cognitive, it's it can play a role in mood plays a big role in. So let's talk a little bit about that. And I want to understand more the gut, what is it the gut? Brain brain axon? Yeah, sure. Because there's there is a link Yes. huge chunk. Yeah.
Unknown:So when we're born, you know, as a fetus, first the brain develops, and then the digestive system like it's this intricately connected thing. And so we have something called the vagal nerve, that is one of the biggest nerves in the body starts in the brain goes down, you know, the esophagus, the lungs into the small intestine that down to the anus. And so it sends and receives so much information. We actually think that more information comes from the vagal nerve to the brain, than from the brain to out the vagal nerve. I didn't realize it was the vagal nerve assess so much of those expressions we're familiar with. Yeah. Oh, I have butterflies in my neck. Yeah. Or what are some? It's gut wrenching. Yeah, yeah. There's all these other sayings that make you feel like, you know, instantly what somebody means by that. So many of my patients will carry their emotions, yeah, in their gut.
Sheri Davidson:So you know, in traditional Chinese medicine, there is the five element school of thought. And the each element is associated with an organ system. And so the the wood is related to the liver, gallbladder, and then the stomach and the spleen is related to the earth element. And they sit directly across from each other. And so it's there's a pattern called liver over acting on the spleen in the stomach. Okay. And that is people who are like, say, Crohn's disease, IBS, those types of things, people who stress and so there's this, this attack onto the nervous system, I'm sorry, the spleen in the stomach. So usually those people are highly stressed. Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting that that people put that into their digestive system,
Unknown:right. Yeah. And so are those points in this similar area? There are
Sheri Davidson:points. And so if I am treating, say, IVs, I will do some stomach points, but also depends on what else is going on. And if it's due to a liver pattern, then I will do some liver probably gallbladder points. Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting how you can see some of the overlap. There are because
Unknown:I will, if I have a patient who's having some, if I've done a stool test, where we collect a sample and analyze it, but it's called PCR We're actually looking at the DNA of the bacteria, the yeast, protozoa and worms, IQ. But you know, we need to know. And then it'll also give me some intestinal health markers. So I can see how well your pancreatic enzymes are functioning, if there's inflammation, if there is too much fat in the stool, so So then I'll go and think, Okay, we need some gallbladder support, or no, we need stomach acid support, or no, we need small intestine, enzyme support, all those things can really play a big role. Yeah. But back to your question about the mental health, people forget, or maybe don't know that, about at least 70% of the serotonin, which is our kind of well, being neurotransmitter that that chemical in the brain that conveys kind of all is well feel good. Feeling a sense of well being and happiness is made in the intestinal tract. And so if we have some kind of imbalance there, well, it would be natural to assume that our serotonin production is going to be imbalanced. Now, there can also be some interruption in just the way that those neurotransmitters are received, you know, from synapse to synapse, but if your production is low, and you just don't have a lot in there, you know, there are some things that we can do with digestion and supporting the microbiome that could definitely help with that. So I work a lot with my patients that have anxiety or depression, the first thing that we start to look at is their gut health, and what is the balance of that of the microorganisms? Certainly look at their diet and what they're eating because we want to be able to be supporting that with diet. But that's a key place to start to unravel some mysteries. If, if depression anxiety is present.
Sheri Davidson:Well, so maybe it's just a whole new perspective, isn't it? Yes, it is. And you know, it's interesting in I don't remember where I read it, but they were calling it. It sounds kind of crazy, but I think it's like psycho by
Unknown:them. Yes.
Sheri Davidson:Yes.
Unknown:That's what it is.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah. It's there's this because men, you know, medication only helps like one out of every five people, I think, stat on them.
Unknown:Number and it does. It's wonderful. It's really can be life changing. Yeah, absolutely. But get repair alongside medication is even better. Yeah. Because most likely that medication they're taking, if there is this imbalance, or some other digestive compromise, you're not getting the full benefit of the medication, either. So if we improve your assimilation and absorption of that, along with your food, along with the macro organisms will hack, you know, you're going to be unstoppable. Yeah. And that's exciting to think about that I could help somebody. Yeah, get to that.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah. And again, not to I mean, I'm not against medication at all. But it's also there are no side effects of the biome or fixing the gut biome. Right, right. Or there are some side effects from from medications. So that's very promising. And
Unknown:it's not that hard. I mean, sometimes it takes a little time we're so used to in America, and this goes back to the whole dinner table conversation about rush, get our meal, let's go, let's just eat it in the car. You know, we expect results so fast. And I'm guilty of that, too. I, I don't want to be down. I don't want to be feeling bad. But sometimes, these more natural approaches take a little bit longer, because we didn't just wake up and yesterday get into balance. Right? microorganisms, it's been something that's probably been building for a while.
Sheri Davidson:And you have to be proactive. Yeah. Right. So it's not going to fix it by by itself. And you have to kind of take that initiative. To and if you need to work with somebody for accountability, you need to take that initiative to stay on track. And and then you'll see the results. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what about you said it also, AIDS and metabolism? Yes.
Unknown:So with metabolism, I have a fair amount of patients that come to see me for overweight and obesity and trying to lose weight. And sometimes that dysbiosis can be one of the obstacles to them losing weight. So thankfully, our microorganisms you know, do these things for us that are really important. And one of them is using fiber from our food. We get fiber from things like beans and nuts and seeds, berries, some grains. You know, it's plentiful if we seek out a whole foods diet, but that fiber will feed the microorganisms, we were talking about probiotics earlier, these are kind of what people call pre biotics. It's the food that will sustain the probiotics, some companies will make their probiotic capsule with prebiotics in it, so that you're automatically giving them some substrates to sustain. I think it's a good idea. But I also want to eating, you know, the rainbow and all of these fibrous foods. So with eating a diet like that one, it, it makes you feel fuller, so you're less likely to have those other snacks that are in the day, whatever they are. So that's one benefit for having fiber. A second benefit is it feeding these micro organisms, so that we have a lot of these end products that they make, and one of those is called a short chain fatty acid, or Si, es si fa. And these are things that provide fuel to the cells that line the intestinal tract. When those are fed and really well nourished, then you can assimilate all your food and absorb the nutrients from it rather than not absorbing it. And you've you feel satisfied with your meals, you're eating less, and you're healthier, because your intestinal tract can actually use the nutrients that's in your food. It also provides these micro organisms can make B vitamins, they make vitamin K. So they make things that help provide energy and help utilize the nutrients that we get from our food.
Sheri Davidson:Are you talking with like the gut? The gut barrier? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah, it's important that that is really intact, because so many things in our modern world now can cause that barrier to be compromised. And probably all your listeners have heard of leaky gut, we usually call it intestinal permeability. But it's where sometimes the space between these cells that line the tract, they have little anchor proteins that hold them together. And these anchor proteins can be disrupted. And things like herbicides and pesticides can do it. We see for some people gluten can do that stress, thinking stress, chronic chronic stress can do it. And then once that, it's called transcellular permeability, once those little bits of proteins and or bacterial fragments that can migrate between the cells and then get into the bloodstream. And then your immune system sees that kind of as this foreign invader, or pathogen, and we'll tag it and create an antibody to it. And then you start to have this whole cascade of inflammation. And and then you start to be sensitive to foods that you eat all the time because you have this migration. So fiber can help your micro organisms be fed well, so that they're producing these short chain fatty acids that can protect protect, yeah, yeah. One protect, we definitely. You know, that's one of the places you know, some people say, Oh, this skin is, you know, where we get most assault from the environment, because we absorb everything we put on, as well as just, you know, toxins from the air and pollution, but the intestinal tract because of you know, all the little villi and the cilia that that line that actually have more surface area than what we do on our skin. And that's exposed, really to the outside world.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah, because you're putting Yeah, the food that you put in is from the outside world and and it's having a conversation with Yeah, and that
Unknown:conversation is is a perfect point Sherry to bring up when we talked about earlier that you and I may only shared 10% of the same kind of footprint for our micro organisms. It's what we're finding in the research is it's really that conversation between the bacteria and the host. Like what are you as a host setting up your environment to grow or not grow? All of these microorganisms. Yeah. And so that uniqueness of how you sleep. Yeah, how you move your body? Yeah, how you manage your stress, you know, and relationships like, you know, just our friendship could could have a positive, which I know has a positive effect on my health. So there's just so many. what's inspiring to me about it is that I'm in control of so much that, you know, I have people ask me, Well, what's your COVID protocol? Well, it's getting up and exercising, yeah, it's drinking my water every day, it's getting to bed on time, it's eating colors, that every meal means these tiny daily choices that I'm making, that are helping this micro organism be strong. So when I do come into COVID, if I do, then it can
Sheri Davidson:hide it off, which I think is a great lead in to, we really haven't talked, we've mentioned the immune system, but we really haven't talked about it. And I think that would be a good thing to jump into, especially since we're in the middle of this pandemic. And I know that people want to take care of themselves, and they want to make sure that their immune is biting for them. So and in 70%, of our gut biome is our immune system. Yeah, right.
Unknown:Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So
Sheri Davidson:that's pretty amazing. And that you need all these things that you've talked about, to be happening in your body in order for your immune system, to protect to So
Unknown:jump into. So it is amazing to think you know that we've talked about metabolic health, brain health, and now immune health, that all these very major regulatory systems in the body can be regulated by our microorganisms. So by having a good balance of those things, we can really have good protection, because we see not just in COVID, but any any kind of illness, that the immune system, you know, we want a little activation of it, it's important to have that activation of it, it's once it's gone past that acute phase into chronic, where it's just still responding at this low level. So why would we want it just to be reacting to everyday insults, so that when something bigger does come, there's less soldiers for that to recruit to come up against it? Yeah. So dialing in all of those lifestyle factors is a great way to have your immune system really well supported.
Sheri Davidson:Yet, why don't and then the study you were telling me about?
Unknown:Yeah, just out? I don't know, in the last month, yeah, the journal gut had an article where they studied patients who had had COVID 19. And they looked at their microbiome of patients who had had the virus and they they saw that patients who had these specific criteria of a balanced gut that they they looked at, I don't remember exactly which strains were all present, but there were no pathogenic growth, there was, you know, not a lot of opportunistic bacteria, that there was pretty good balance in the gut, those patients who had COVID responded far better than the patients who had imbalance or dysbiosis. So again, just one more reason that that giving your food, you know, fiber and managing your your diet in a way that's full of color, as much whole foods as possible. And I don't necessarily mean from Whole Foods Market. I just mean, real food, right? That's not always out of a box. Although there are days that I eat something out of a box,
Sheri Davidson:I think we're all probably guilty. Yeah, convenience, right? When you're, yeah, those tight schedules, but how you want to live,
Unknown:but in general, that we're really putting a focus on what you said earlier about, what does that food gonna do for me. And by by making those intentional choices, then you know that you're really supporting your immune system, you're giving it protein, all of our white blood cells have to have protein. So if you're skimping on your protein, then we want to make sure that you're you've got enough protein every day to support that all of the cofactors that we need the vitamins and minerals that help those reactions happen to make more of the immune fighting molecules. We get those in food. I do think sometimes a multivitamin could play a role in someone's health especially If they're not eating a real foods diet regularly, but we really can get some good nutrition that's going to support those micro organisms and provide that immune support we
Sheri Davidson:need. Yeah, so important right now. So important. Yeah. So what do you think about the overuse of sanitizer? You know, we already were there before. COVID. Yes. And now COVID has just really thrown that into overdrive. Hi.
Unknown:Yeah, hyper. Yeah. Um, I'll say my opinion on it has probably changed through the pandemic, going back to the whole soil health conversation that we had, you there, there have been several studies of comparing, you know, benefits of, of that hygiene hypothesis, where we really keep cleaning, keep clean, disinfect, where were families, who were not as good as washing hands and washing produce, and actually out in the dirt a lot more compared to people who, who didn't do that, that they had better health. So originally, when all of the hand sanitizer stuff came out, I was, I was worried that we're killing off a lot of these beneficial things. But that's where you have to go back to the risk benefit analysis. And I felt like it is a benefit to use it and not have the risk of spreading more germs of possibly contaminating and, you know, being a spreader of COVID. But I do think we're going to start to see some downstream effects of our high use of it.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah, I think so too. And I feel short term use, like through this pandemic was probably appropriate. But I feel like it's gonna, it's going to be so ingrained, that there's going to be patted people are going to be using it way past the pandemic. And I've even heard of a lot of UV lights going in to workplaces or I know an event that happened, where people had to walk through UV lights in order to get into the Convention, which is great. But I just think, you know, it's kind of what's the long term? Yeah, health?
Unknown:I think there's a lot we don't know, we don't know, I just think there's a lot we don't know. And I think if we just go through in general, if we go through life with an intention that I'm doing the best I can, yeah, and I am I have my fellow neighbor in mind in my decisions, too, then, then you're probably going to be okay. But your your point, which is part of what you do studying human behavior, and helping people make these behavior changes, is what kind of changes? How are we going to just rely on having that bottle of hand sanitizer now, instead of instead just washing our hands with soap and water? I don't know. I think it will be interesting to see. And will we be able to really correlate? Yeah, any negative health findings to it? I don't know how to do that kind of study. But it would be interesting.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah. Well, I know I was on a call with the global wellness Institute, and I heard them term it, someone termed that there will be a movement called Dirty wellness,
Unknown:dirty wellness. And what was
Sheri Davidson:that? I'm not sure. I don't know if they just came up with that term on the fly, or because they just threw it out there. And everybody started laughing. So I don't know if it really will be a movement, but it definitely would make sense. It's good to get dirty sometime. Yeah,
Unknown:it really is. I, you know, I came to nutrition because I had a terrible case of psoriasis, which is an autoimmune condition. And that summer, when I got the diagnosis, I started I didn't really want to take immunosuppressive drugs, I want to just explore some other options first. And that's when I really started getting into nutrition and evaluating, you know, different elimination diets and probiotics and vitamin D and fatty acids, all these different things that were showing in the research to be supportive for psoriasis. But one of the other things I did was I was outside a lot. So I got natural vitamin D exposure. And my hands were in the dirt. I completely redid our front yard and put in a garden. And I really think that that helped me. Yeah,
Sheri Davidson:yeah, I don't do a lot of gardening. I do have plants that I take care of. But I feel like all my races and being truck trail runner trails. Yeah, that I get plenty of diversity out there. I'm pretty sure. So the other thing I wanted to ask you before we before we close up here, there are a couple more things one, there. There is Also some talk about boosting the immune system versus balancing the immune system. So I'm kind of curious of what your thoughts are on
Unknown:that. I'm all for balancing. Yeah. I think all the things, the strategies that we talked about today are illuminating that. Yeah. That too much of anything is really not good. Yeah. Sometimes when I'm helping my patients know how much vitamin C, they should be taking. It's called to bowel tolerance. So you take it, and then you wait 15 minutes, and you take another dose and you wait 15 minutes, you take another dose, until you have diarrhea. And that way, you know, you're at what your body needs at that point for vitamin C, we don't need that approach for everything. Sure, that helps establish for that particular antioxidant. But if we were to just boost everything, then we're kind of just still at this hypersensitive point. And if we go back to that idea of the immune system, kind of reacting in a chronic state, every day over everything, then will it have the resources? My guess is yes, the body is amazing. Amazing. We barely know what it all can do. It's powerful if we just get out of the way Exactly. But I think if we're constantly trying to boost this boost that high protein, this high fat that yeah, you know, I'm also not a subscriber to everything in moderation, because people who have type two diabetes, hypertension, metabolic syndrome, they really can't do moderation. Yeah. You know, there's just, they're, they're in need of some acute. Yeah, changes. Yeah. But I think for us to have the opinion, at least I think Western belief is more is better. Right. And I don't
Sheri Davidson:think that's the case. Yeah, that and I think, getting around the marketing messages. Yes. They're strong. They're strong. Yeah, I think it's important to understand what boosting could mean, right? actly. Exactly. And it might set you up for something that you don't want.
Unknown:That's right. I have patients all the time that are bringing in whatever the latest celebrity on Instagram has made for this smoothie mix or protein powder, and it will have probiotics, and it will have fiber, and it will have you know, all these additive things, which I understand they're trying to do like a one shot, right? Fix. But if this person comes to me, and they have IBS, you know, I'm going to be looking at these strains of bacteria. I'm going to be looking at what type of fiber because not all fiber is good for all people. Yeah. So just because you know, a celebrity is promoting it, or it's on every social media outlet doesn't necessarily mean that it's the perfect thing for you.
Sheri Davidson:Correct? Yeah, it is your right marketing is it's a very, very strong and it will reel you in and I mean, I believer I fall
Unknown:prey to just, you know, all the natural, clean modern labels, I think I do. And then think you have to turn that around.
Sheri Davidson:Read the label. I think it would be fun one day to do like a trip to the grocery store with you and we can put it on. That would be fine. Yeah, it would be fun. I read the labels. But you're you're the expert. And there's a lot of things that I just can't even pronounce half of the time. And I know there's a lot, especially for sugar. There are a lot of different names for sugar that they hide.
Unknown:Oh, yeah, something like 340 Something days of sugar, probably more than that. We should so do that. Yeah, that would be fun. So let
Sheri Davidson:me ask you this. So how would somebody test their their their gut biome? Is that something they would do through you? Is it something they could do, you can ask your
Unknown:healthcare provider for stool tests. Most conventional doctors will do what's called an O MP, which they're just looking at kind of ova and parasites. But these other functional tests that our PCR or DNA driven test, I really do like and more those are more from the either an integrative or functional medicine practitioner that that you can do. And they will look at those strains of bacteria, pathogenic bacteria and viruses, as well as parasites and worms and then it will look at the commensal bacteria, which are we want and you know, a good amount and the other normal flora that may be opportunistic. It'll give us that information. And then those intestinal health markers. Some tests will also do besides just the PCR, they'll do a culture. So they'll take some of those. They'll take a sample and put it in in a petri dish and see what grows out, and then we can see just another besides the the DNA, but we can also see culture and is kind of a check and balance to see what else might be potentially pathogenic. Those usually are not covered by insurance, there are a couple of providers that are going to that do take some coverage for insurance. And they're, you know, they range somewhere between 303 $150. So they're kind of expensive, but health care savings account funds, if you have that, that can cover it. But it's a really good test, particularly if you have GI symptoms. Yeah, if you have a lot of anxiety and depression, or if you have autoimmune conditions, those three populations, I pretty much always in recommending to Dostal tests.
Sheri Davidson:And is it I'm not sure what the cost is of doing that. If it's not covered by insurance? Is there a home test?
Unknown:There are some home tests you do? I think it's called vo biome or okay, I'm not that familiar with them. The the professional grade ones? No, I know, the standards of these labs. I have had some patients bring test to me, but it's more of the food sensitivity test, like an everlywell test.
Sheri Davidson:That's what I was thinking like Everly well, like, you know, do they do any?
Unknown:I'm sure if they do a stool test, I haven't looked. Yeah. But I just know the standards for these tests. And they may be okay. But
Sheri Davidson:they're probably not as detailed. So who knows what you would be able to really tell
Unknown:there's a lot of clinical research that that's going to back up the reasons that they're showing that they strains are linked to this autoimmunity or what what what other, you know, antibiotic might be used to treat this overgrowth? Yeah. So interesting. It is. It's fascinating. So
Sheri Davidson:I want to talk about one last thing, okay, because I find it fascinating are fecal transplants. And, like, I read, was it a study? Or was I just reading an article, I might have been just reading an article, there was a girl hat or did a fecal transplant and I believe she started gaining weight. And it had to do with the fecal the microbiome in the fecal transplant that was causing her to gain weight that what I don't know about them is the difference between doing a fecal transplant as opposed to fixing the gut. So you don't have that leaky gut or permeability. What like, what's the difference between the two? Yeah,
Unknown:so I think they're very interesting. Right now, the FDA has only approved them for treatment for C. difficile is that usually, hospital acquired, mostly a hospital acquired, bacterial, overly bad, a bad player, really. And then some people it can be fatal. It can make you really sick.
Sheri Davidson:And it's something that you usually get from the hospital. You
Unknown:took, it's yeah, that's where it comes from. And but not always, not always. But there are antibiotics for it. But if you're antibiotic resistant, and the C Diff does not get taken care of by those antibiotics, then the government has approved treatment by fecal transplant to treat that currently, you can't use it. Yeah, legally. For anything else. There are people doing home transplants, you know, it's it would be like a rectal enema. I'm not recommending it for anybody, please don't go out
Sheri Davidson:and do this. But
Unknown:it, it is, you know, what some people are doing, I do think it is going to be something of the future. Because when we talked about metabolic health being one of the benefits of a good microbiome, and just the example that you gave, and how that woman gained weight, it can turn on and off genes. And so we're seeing that that might be one of the things that having this whole new footprint that comes in because it's the whole environment. It's not just like the difference of taking a probiotic capsule compared to a poop pill, which is actually information interesting that it would be freeze dried poop, fecal matter poop, that's into a capsule and they've actually shown in studies there's really not much difference between
Sheri Davidson:adding it ingesting it or do or yes, a positive years
Unknown:and their enteric coating, meaning that they are coded so that it makes it through the stomach acid into the small intestines, large intestines.
Sheri Davidson:And all this time when Finn eats poop. I'm like, What are you doing? Well, there was a study.
Unknown:That was a study of some German soldiers that when they were somewhere in Africa camp, I don't remember where in the study but they were having to eat camel dunk. And it was just kind of part of their experience. And they actually improved their health like this dysentery that they had they got over it because they didn't have antibiotics. Wow. It's just again back to I don't think we know, we're just scratching the surface. So I think that the transplants can be really beneficial. I mean, we already see for people that have C. diff that it's helping. I, I, I'm be very curious to see where it goes. I did read recently that they were, there were a couple of these labs that are making the poop pills. And FDA had asked them to stop taking donations, because of COVID, that there may be something because you know, GI distress is one of the places some people have problems. Yeah, there may be something in that viral replication that we wouldn't want in that pill. So in that sense, that was an answer.
Sheri Davidson:There's a halt right now. But yeah, interesting. Yeah. Where? Where will we be in 10 to 15 years? I think it's exciting. It's exciting. It's it's very exciting. And I mean, it sounds kind of dirty. But is that gonna be part of the nerdy? Well? That's so funny navy. So what just did to just tie things together? As we come to a close? What would be your recommendations? We've talked about a lot of stuff. So just summarize some good points for our listeners, on how they can improve their gut biome at home. Yes, yeah.
Unknown:So I think eating a good diet, you know, nutrition is my thing. So I'm going to start with that. Just really putting some emphasis on planning your meals. I know it's so difficult in we're moving so fast these days is feels hard to take some time to think about what you're going to eat during the week. But carving out a little bit of time to be proactive on that, I think is important. I love for my patients to shop at farmer's markets because you get that seasonal, that local micro flora on your food. You know, it's the same thing when people talk about recommendations of having local honey, for the allergy benefits of it. It's kind of a similar problem. idea that you're when you're eating local food, you're getting that local bacteria.
Sheri Davidson:And I just want to interrupt for one second. Shawna walked me around the Farmers Market One day, I used to frequent them more often, but I ran into you at the farmers market. And she was the best guide.
Unknown:Yes, it's so fun. If you want to meet me at the Urban Harvest Farmers Market, I'm usually there about 815 Sometimes 830. And it's so much fun to meet our farmers who are working so hard for us. But But if if that's kind of an extra bonus if you can do local foods, but if not just having consistent real foods, because it's going to provide you the color that I want you to be getting on your plate every day. It's going to provide that consistent fiber intake. Really thinking about your fiber, the berries, we're kind of coming out of blueberry season but but making sure you can get some berries, beans, any of the beans, chickpeas, Pintos, black beans, they're all full of fiber, oats, cane, raw millet, teff, all these other alternative grains. Those all have some good fibers. So trying to get those in your diet every day is important. And then really dialing in your sleep, making sure that you're trying to get a consistent bedtime a consistent rise time, so that you have more time for your bacteria. Because when we're at rest, and you're not putting food down the tube, it lets the the mechanisms really clean out and work better. Yeah, so that period of fasting at night is important for our microbiome.
Sheri Davidson:Yeah, so good sleep. And you recommend the time to stop eating? I don't know like an hour before bed like because some people I that's one of my biggest struggles is he eat late because I don't get home until right right.
Unknown:It happens to me too. Yeah, but if even if you're eating at eight o'clock 830 then tried to not have any, any more snacks. Now I have people who are really trying to maintain blood sugar. Yeah, if especially if it's a diabetic, then we might have a little bit of a protein snack before they go to bed to help manage through the night. But generally other people, two to three hours would be the best. Yeah, but that time of of reducing your insulin response and then also just giving your intestinal tract. Time to finish. Yeah, sweeping all that food out. And and then just letting that microbiome be a little bit more balanced during that time. There's some benefit. Yeah. So just to summarize the three points, eat real foods, get more fiber, and honor your sleep schedule. Those are three important things today I
Sheri Davidson:will tell people how to get in touch with you.
Unknown:So I am I have an office in the heights in Houston, on Yale and 12th street, but my website is my name Shawna Tatum rd.com. And I'm also on Facebook and Instagram at Shauna Tatum, rd.
Sheri Davidson:Very nice. Well, I saw appreciate you, it was so fun. I
Unknown:love talking about thank you for giving me an opportunity to do that. And I
Sheri Davidson:could keep going. I know we could talk more. We could and so we'll just have to have you back and we'll just we'll pick another I like the idea of the grocery store tour. I think that'd be fun. We can do it on. We'll video it. Yes. And then we can post it and actually make a episode out of this. Good. Well, thank you Shauna. So appreciate you sharing come back. Bye bye. Well, what did you guys think? I hope that you were inspired by our conversation. Shawn has shared so much great information on the microbiome, and how the disruption of the balance can affect our immune metabolic and brain health. And there is still so much to discover. I foresee many future conversations on this topic. To get started on nourishing your gut biome. Remember, Shauna recommends eating real food, getting plenty of fiber and sleeping well for a healthy and vital life. And also stay tuned to our trip to the grocery store. I think we had a great idea there. And hopefully we will follow through with that. Just some closing remarks. Before we finish up here. Get ready for the next episode. Episode Three, it's on financial wellness with Scylla dad Tanner. Financial wellness is a much needed conversation and one that we will keep having here. Your money is the number one stressor globally, and it affects our health and well being. But no one's talking about it. But now people are starting to talk the talk about money is getting louder. So join us in a great conversation that will get you to start thinking and talking about your money. Also, please join the wellness inspired community to get updates on new episodes and wellness inspiration in your inbox. Go to wellness inspired podcast.com to sign up and I'll also put the link to the website in the show notes so you can just click and go and if you like what you hear please give me a rating in review. Wherever you listen to your podcast. It helps others find me. Also I love hearing from you your ideas, suggestions and feedback are important to me. So please contact me at Sheri sh e ri at wellness inspired podcast.com and I will put all of this in the show notes for your convenience. Well, that was fun. Until next time. Thank you so much for listening. And as always Be inspired wellness inspired by