Coffee & Career Hour
A genuine & informative podcast on all things career - hosted by two career counselors and friends. From practical strategies to motivational & reflective content, this podcast is here to empower and guide you to find meaningful work, make informed career decisions, and reach your full potential. So, grab a cup of coffee and join in for some career talk.
Coffee & Career Hour
Stepping Outside Comfort Zones for Personal and Professional Growth
Ever taken a leap of faith? We've been there too, and we're here to share our journey - the triumphs, the trials, and the lessons learned along the way. We're going to get real about where our journeys began and how taking leaps of faith has shaped our path since then.
We're not just talking about the leaps either, we're diving into how these brave endeavors have unlocked learning opportunities and nurtured our professional growth. We've grappled with being first-gen professionals, feeling like the youngest in the room, and letting insecurities seep into our confidence. But guess what? We've also learned that age isn't a barrier to achievement and everyone's journey is as unique as they are.
We discuss how our different career positions have influenced personal and professional development and reflect on chances we wished we'd taken. At the end of the day, taking a leap of faith can lead to growth, learning opportunities, and a journey that's authentically yours. So, let's talk about embracing risk, overcoming insecurities, and finding our voice in the professional world.
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Welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody. We hope you have your favorite beverage at hand while you're listening to this episode. It's so nice to be back behind the mic.
Speaker 1:It is. We always love being behind the mic. It's such a special feeling. I wish we could do it more often.
Speaker 2:I do too. I mean, you and I have a lot of conversations off the mic, but these feel really special, so these are really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are amazing. So we are here today to chat a little bit about taking a leap of faith in your career.
Speaker 2:That's scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's scary about it?
Speaker 2:Thank you. Like the whole process, I'm a plan A, or not even step zero to step a hundred. So I think about the entire process, not just about taking the leap, but how to prepare for the leap. What is the leap? What if the leap isn't what it is? What do you do mid-leap? Yeah.
Speaker 1:That is definitely you. I am also myself a planner, for sure, I'm the girl with the to-do list and the checklist. Completing the checklist makes me feel whole and complete and fulfilled, but sometimes we'll talk more about this what I've learned is that you can't always have a checklist. We don't have a checklist for life.
Speaker 2:That's very true. Life is yeah, yes, I can agree more. Life is very unpredictable and it's something you can't really prepare for. It's something we can only do our best at. I've been saying that so much within the last couple of months is like don't be hard on yourself. No that's not what I've been saying. Take it easy, because you're only doing the best that you can and you're only one person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know, and most of us are hard on ourselves. We see that with our students, our clients, ourselves, even, yeah, guilty, yeah, we're too hard on ourselves and other people kind of have a very different perspective of, let's say, your performance in something, but you have a more negative perspective. We're like, no, I could have done this better, I could have done that better. Anybody out there listening who's hard on yourself just know that you're not alone. I think it's just a natural human tendency. In my personal opinion, it makes you a good human being. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because no, not yeah, I disagree. Yeah, you agree.
Speaker 1:So it's actually a good quality, but we do all have to kind of learn to take it easy on ourselves for our own well-being.
Speaker 2:Yeah, give yourself grace Something. I say this all the time in the office. I'm way better at being the counselor than the client, so a lot of these things like. I'm super hard on myself and I'll tell you to be nicer and kinder to yourself, but I won't take my own guidance because we're only human. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's actually funny how we tell each other the same things, but we don't.
Speaker 2:I know none of us do it, oh Lord.
Speaker 1:Well, with that said, we kind of want to talk a little bit about taking a leap of faith in our careers and essentially in life, right, and how we've come to where we are today and the journeys and the processes we've kind of been through to get to this point. Absolutely so question for you, mj what's up? Where were you five years ago?
Speaker 2:Five years ago. Five years ago, it's 2023. So 2018. Yeah, 2018. So, to tell you the truth, I was still an undergrad, which is kind of like crazy. I was still an undergrad and I was in my second year. I was in my second year of getting my bachelor's degree and at this time, five years ago, little ol' MJ was kind of deciding what she wanted to be. At the time I was taking a careers in psychology class and I was navigating.
Speaker 2:If you're an undergrad student and you come across Arminay and I, we're going to tell you that your major does not limit your career paths. It does not limit your career choices. So myself, being first gen, I didn't seek out career guidance, as I should have, but I also didn't know it existed, so I can't really be mad at myself. It was also in that same class where I learned that there was actually a career center. So I was taking a careers in psychology class where I got exposed to different kinds of therapists and psychologists and the different fields within psychology.
Speaker 2:And it was that year I remember specifically when I decided I wanted to be an academic advisor and that kind of morphed into a different idea and eventually the idea became counselor, but as a second year in undergrad, working full time at Old Navy, like I shared last time, I didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't really know. I just knew that getting an education was good for me and going Getting a college degree was good and it was going to advance my career. Didn't know what the hell a career meant at the time. So clearly you can see who MJ is now is not very much so who she was five years ago. And in between there there are pockets of things that have happened situations, jobs, degrees because they did get a master's degree as well roles and confidence, a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1:But, roughly.
Speaker 2:That's where I was five years ago.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a story, what a journey. We'll talk more about how you've grown in that time throughout this episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when were you five years ago, Arminay?
Speaker 1:I'm curious, yeah, where was I so 2018,? I was working at Cal State, la. I was an academic advisor in the business college.
Speaker 2:Oh, you had the job that I wanted, yeah.
Speaker 1:You could have been my student at the time. I'm glad you weren't. I'm glad we're colleagues and equals and podcast co-hosts yeah, I love that. But I was there and that job actually was really great for me. I'll backtrack a little bit. Actually, I graduated my master's in 2014 and then finished a career certificate in 2015. So I entered the full-time professional world In 2015,. That's when I got the Cal State LA job and I was there for about five years, grew a lot in that role.
Speaker 1:Prior to that, I grew a lot in grad school. Yeah, agree, gosh, I was not the same person I am today in grad school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I can imagine you as a grad student. I could see you as a professor. I cannot see you as a student.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, off mic, you were just telling me how you take me seriously. Yes, absolutely, which I love. Thank you, I appreciate that. Did not have the confidence to come across that way when I was in grad school and grad school was the push that I needed and speaking of taking a leap of faith just even going to grad school, was a leap, oh hell yeah. You know, even that was like the first step ever, and every action I've taken since then has been a leap of faith in my career.
Speaker 1:But that was like the first one, and it turned out to be a process where I learned and grew so much that coming out of grad school, I was already a different person or a different version of myself is a better way to say it and then, working at Cal State, la, for five years, I grew so much professionally in different ways More so and I won't get technical about our industry, but more so different ways I could contribute to the industry besides the one-on-one counseling that I really learned how to do in grad school. So like supervising programming, things like that I really got to be exposed to. And by the time I left Cal State LA again, I was a different person than I was when I first started. So that position allowed me to grow in every position I've had since then and we'll elaborate throughout that episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You're talking about your first leap of faith, career-wise right, and I was like I agree for sure, grad school is a huge leap of faith. For me, it was actually going to undergrad. Going to college in the first place was a huge leap of faith.
Speaker 2:I gosh, that's a whole another story for a whole another day. But I ended up going to a private institution, mount St Mary's University, that I actually teach for now, which is mind blowing because I've climbed. You know, on corporate there's a ladder. I think I've climbed the higher education ladder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll have them very quickly.
Speaker 2:Because I was an undergrad student, then I was a graduate student, then I was staff and on faculty which is mind blowing in itself and I don't believe it a lot of the time. But for me my major leap was going to the Mount, was going to Mount St Mary's, because that was not my plan.
Speaker 2:That's not what I was going to do. I ended up deciding that three months before graduation for a whole different set of reasons, but that was my huge leap of faith. Then I think exactly what you're saying. Ever since then, every step I've taken has been a leap of faith in the good, where there's been a learning opportunity for me. Yeah, growing opportunity, because every time you learn, you grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you said that every leap of faith you've taken has been a learning and growing opportunity, because it's so scary to take a leap Right and sometimes we could get caught up in the bad what ifs and that could stop us from taking that step. But every single time we've taken a leap, we've gotten positive results out of it. Growth Mindset yeah, it's all about your mindset.
Speaker 1:It really is. We've talked about Growth Mindset in a previous episode. For those of you who maybe have missed that episode, check it out from our database. But Growth Mindset essentially is the philosophy that I guess you function with, I can say, where when you try things or you make a mistake, you see that as an opportunity to learn and develop, as opposed to a very dualistic mindset where when you make a mistake you feel like you've failed. And so we want to operate from the Growth Mindset perspective, because life doesn't come with the menu and we're all going to make mistakes and we're all going to have to take risks and with each risk and with each mistake we learn and we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a balance. You can't always I don't think you can always ever be 100% Growth Mindset and never. The opposite of growth is fixed mindset, so there is a balance between the fixed and the growth and we've talked about this before. I definitely in the beginning of my career and I want to preface that I also consider the start of my career my education and higher education as well.
Speaker 2:I don't consider it heavily as work, but that is where my career started with, where it was got educated and trained. That was a very fixed mindset, MJ. Mj has more of a balance into growth mindset now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean even in the past year. So if we look at beyond graduate school, right, so you learn you grew a lot in grad school and then from there you've had a couple of positions how would you say in that past couple of years like actually working professionally? What are some changes and skill sets that you've developed?
Speaker 2:Oh jeez, oh my gosh it just brings back a lot of memories. It brings back a lot of memories that I don't even think should be considered memories because they were so recent.
Speaker 1:Yesterday is a memory. Five minutes ago.
Speaker 2:It's already the past. How have I grown? So I will say, coming into this field, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how student affairs worked. I didn't know, I didn't understand higher education, the system, as fluently as other people, and I had to navigate it all on my own too, which is hard because I had to navigate it as a student and as a professional Reading a job, contract, benefits, all of that I had to navigate on my own. My mom didn't know. My mom is a mom. She just didn't know what I was doing, didn't know how to help me, right. So I've grown a lot and it's all just because.
Speaker 2:So some of the things let me let me share is one is my personality. In the beginning I was not like this. I wasn't and I, when I say like this, I mean my full self. I was not because I was nervous that that didn't come across. That came across too much unprofessional and I I personally preach the authentic professionalism because it's a balance of who you are plus who you aim to be in your workplace and that's who you are truly, and that, in your professional work, self is who you are most of the time. So there needs to be a balance. So I've grown in letting myself be myself one way, because I was not like that as a first gen too. It was very shy and embarrassed of every single thing I did, and I asked a million and seven questions and had zero confidence in myself and the questions were silly how to, like I would learn things like on the go and feel like the dumbest person in the planet, and now I'm like learning is good.
Speaker 2:You know like something silly like teaching someone else how to use a feature on Outlook or me learning how to do God knows what like. I've grown in the technical skills of the operations and the programs and the things we do, but I've also grown in the professional sense, where there's a lot more confidence in the work that I do and I'm not hesitating and doubting myself. I know what I'm capable of and I know that I can do it. And back then geez, I like this was a dream back then, and now I'm living the dream.
Speaker 1:That's so amazing, oh my gosh. I mean, I've seen your growth just in the past year.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that made sense.
Speaker 1:No, it made perfect sense and I love that you kind of touched on not feeling like you could be yourself. I think we all feel that way, especially those of us who are first-gen and are navigating the world of work on our own. That was my experience as well Figuring out benefits and job descriptions, negotiating oh my gosh. I remember the first time I negotiated. It was so nerve-wracking for me. But all of that stuff has been new for those of us who are first-gen and that kind of contributes to us feeling like everybody else knows how to do all this except me. But the reality is most people don't know Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, and we tell this to our students all the time, our clients come in with the same same lack of confidence, same idea that they're the only ones who don't know. And we've experienced the same things and that's happened with every step. Going to college, that was the same feelings. And then you figure it out. And then you go to grad school Same thing. You're like, oh my gosh, everyone knows what they're doing. I was the youngest one in my cohort so that caused a lot of insecurity for me. Now that I think back, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was so silly.
Speaker 1:You know, just a dear difference between some of my cohort members, but I felt like, oh my gosh, everybody's like older and like I'm the youngest one, and how did they perceive me? That was like a big thing for me back then and not realizing that you got your shit together and you got to grad school earlier. You should be proud of yourself, not, you know, not like be insecure that maybe you know less or you would be perceived as less professional.
Speaker 2:I love that you said that, being the youngest, I've been the youngest in every group of anything I've ever been in.
Speaker 2:You have, I was from preschool I was two or three years old. I graduated eighth grade younger than everybody else. I graduated high school. I started college younger than everybody else I was. I was the youngest grad student in the entire program. I think I was the youngest grad student to graduate at my age from the school. Wow, yeah. So I'm like I'm hearing you and I'm like that's exactly what I felt and I'm like dang, like that's I like look at the people next to me and they were five plus years difference and I still feel that now. Yeah, and I had. I don't feel like I've grown from that specifically yet, like seeing myself as a little kid versus everybody else. I feel like in other areas the confidence helps me where it's more like at a diagonal, where I'm high in other places and still low at the age thing.
Speaker 1:But, you know, you carry yourself so confidently that it doesn't seem like you're insecure about being younger, like I would say that nobody even remembers your age when you're in the professional setting, because you know what you're doing and you do it.
Speaker 2:well, I appreciate that. That makes me feel better, but that is something that, like personally, I think about all the time, like when I'm talking with students and clients who identify with their age or say it out loud and I'm like crap, like you're older than me or like we're the same age and we're in completely different places. But, again, it's different journeys, as we're going to say in different, different timelines to it is.
Speaker 1:everybody's journeys different, right, and if someone is going back to school at an older age or so, that doesn't mean they're behind in life. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What we would tell our students or clients is that that's exactly what we would say, is that it's not. There is no formula. There is no right timing for things. Everyone has their own process. So maybe you were ready a couple years earlier to go to graduate school. Then maybe your cohort member who wasn't ready at that same age doesn't mean either of you are better or better or worse than the other right Absolutely. Our life journeys take us on different paths, but the point is that you've experienced it, I've experienced. It is like going in with the lack of confidence, and that could be for multiple reasons, one for both of us. Maybe it's because we were younger in our cohorts, but also being first gen. Also it could be being a female, especially if you're in a male dominated industry. It could be so many things that contribute to the lack of confidence that most of us and most of the students that we work with express to us as well. But each time we've taken a leap, we've realized we've grown so much from those experiences.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think. Even like the little, like the leap is the big one, but the little jumps to, they add up to a huge, huge amount.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what would be? A little jump like applying for that job that you're not sure about?
Speaker 2:For me, that's a big, that's a big one.
Speaker 2:That's a big leap, that's a big one, like, applying for this job was huge. Last time I shared with you all. Arminay said something about not leaving your job before having one Long story short, and we can go into this depth another time too. But long story short, that's what I did. I quit my job before having a new one and I, like, risked it all. I risked it all and said I rather be happy than miserable. And I applied to this job and within two weeks I was already employed, and that is very rare in student affairs, so rare in higher education, let me tell you. But it's not that I had an in. I will say I was recommended and referred to the position, but I did not have an in. Arminay can tell you she was on the other side of the deciding table yeah.
Speaker 2:No, and that was a huge thing for me, like that's I think it's also recognizing that with every person there's your, your situation. Your leap is going to be very different too.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I'm sure that, knowing you and how much you value your career and your professional identity, having to take, having to leave that job without securing another one must have been, oh difficult on you.
Speaker 2:It was the worst feeling, I don't think. I think I fell into a little bit of a depression for too much straight. For too much straight I was. I didn't want to get out of my bed. I had a lack of motivation. I had, honestly, like a loss of self. I didn't really know who I was or what I wanted. I'm cat. My background is in. Religion is Catholic, so I was going to church three times a week. Okay, it was like really bad and I mean like I'm not saying going to church three times a week is qualifies it as bad, but it was something where I felt like I needed so much higher power strength to get through my day. It was horrible.
Speaker 2:Like those two months were the worst feeling of my entire life, knowing that I wasn't happy, knowing how happy I was in grad school and doing my that I was TA, I was interning, I was a counselor and being ripped from the community that on into a job that I didn't like, working with the team that I didn't really align with. It was so hard and that was probably a bigger leap than applying for the job. The leap it was still a leap to apply to UCLA because it's the brand and all like huge weight on your shoulders and the referral to the person I was coming from. But that was huge. Leaving the job, I felt like I was disappointing MJ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I won everything you had worked for. Yeah, absolutely, but that could be like the opposite end of taking a leap, like we talked about taking a leap in terms of taking on new opportunities.
Speaker 1:I'm doing new things, but actually leaving an opportunity, leaving a place, a situation, a relationship, a job that doesn't work for you is also a huge leap Minimizing those things that are getting in the way of your fulfillment so that you can essentially design your life in a way where you're going to feel fulfilled. That that's a huge, huge part of taking a leap. It's so scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was one of those moments where you know how, when we define success, success is defined uniquely by the individual. But it was one of those like turns, those like bad turns through, like a dark woods, and then, like you make a left and then you're like in the sun and rainbow again. That's what it felt like. That's what those six months felt like. It was very strange for me and I think I needed to experience that to also grow, because I think I needed to find who I was, my values and stick up for myself in some type of way too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you essentially kind of went through the career development process here, where you take a position and then you realize it's not aligned with who you are, your identity, your values, and then you have to make a decision and you kind of go through that cycle of going back to step one and reassessing who am I and is this working for me or not? And then making a decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. It was hard. Though that was hard, it was a huge leap, but it was a. You know the leaps are different. That was a bigger leap than applying to a job, because then when you do like a macro lens, I think then the job, applying to the job, is a smaller thing. Applying to UCLA was a bigger leap than applying to the other jobs, but finding a job, landing the opportunity, was the biggest leap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, those are all big, big, big experiences that I think have shaped you, oh yeah, and brought you to the person that you are today. Absolutely yeah, I would say I relate to, because every single position I've had has had such a profound impact on the way that I see myself and the skills that I develop. Didn't even realize that until now that we're reflecting more on this process, because I've been in the industry for 10 years, right, and when I think about it it's like, ok, I've had a few jobs within the industry, but, no, each job has been so different and that's taught me so much. Oh, my gosh, when I started the position before UCLA, it was right in the middle of the pandemic. No, at the start of the pandemic. It was the week that we all were locked down.
Speaker 1:Locked down. Holy cow, oh my gosh. And so I'm starting a new job and we have to go remote and that's like no company. And this is higher ed. So higher ed was not ready to be working from home.
Speaker 2:Higher ed is still not ready.
Speaker 1:It's not like it's not the tech industry, where everybody's tech savvy and everybody has these platforms and fancy computers at home, knowing what they're doing. No higher. Ed really struggled with going remote Because the systems and the processes weren't in place to allow for this work to be done remotely. It's come a long way since then. It still needs work, for sure, but it's definitely come a long way, thanks to Zoom and the makers of Zoom.
Speaker 2:Honestly, the people who update Zoom on the basis you need to raise.
Speaker 1:Zoom sponsors.
Speaker 2:Zoom sponsors.
Speaker 1:But no. So I started a new job. It is at a completely different type of institution than what I had been used to or exposed to previously. Not only that, so we're working remote. Not only that, it is a different position, so it is still advising and counseling and student services. But there is a whole different component to this which was I don't want to get too technical for those who aren't in this industry, but it's like registrar's and admissions work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's like think about it, of keeping the records of student grades, classes, status as a student.
Speaker 1:Transcripts posting degrees. Those of you who are in college and you want to get your degree, I was in charge of granting your degree. So completely different set of skill sets that I had to base. It's like two jobs in one, or maybe I should even say three jobs in one. But what made it more challenging was that not only do I have to learn a new skill set, but it's remote, so I'm not even being trained in real life, in real time with my coworkers and my supervisors. So every question was via email, which would take twice as long to get answered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was very challenging. So I was working till 11 PM most of the time, especially at the degree posting times, because we had to meet those deadlines to get the students degrees out and everything. Lots of things were done manually, so it was a really challenging position. I don't know how I did it. I went through it and learned these new skill sets, expanded my network because I met some great people in that position and that position itself impacted me in terms of allowing me to see a different side of student affairs that I hadn't. I probably would have never got an exposer because I would never think to apply to a job that would only be like records and registrars. This was more student services, counseling plus registrar. So that's the reason why I hadn't even applied in the first place.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you, is that what you were expecting your job to be like?
Speaker 1:Yes and no. Like I knew it had the registrar's piece. I didn't really have any idea what it meant, yeah, what the reality of it was, and of course, going on lockdown really impacted that, even on a different level. So that was my challenging experience within the career path, but that really impacted me. And then from there I came to UCLA, and UCLA is amazing. Of course every position has its positives and challenges, but have learned so much, even just in the two years that I've been at UCLA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think when I got this position last year, I think I though I don't know what happened in the universe I think the universe's shock was aligned, because I feel like that's when my full potential was unleashed. Um, this is the second time I use the word unleashed today, but it's true, I think my full potential was unleashed One because so I will tell you, I was, and I don't think you guys knew this at all. I was petrified my first week.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, we didn't. You seemed so confident even in the interview.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad. I'm so glad because I was freaking petrified Um my first week. I was so scared. I was so scared because I knew the personal weight that I had on my shoulders from the person who had recommended me. So there was already an internal expectation, um, but I have my own set of expectations for MJ.
Speaker 2:So those are really hard. Um, I was hard on myself, but I think then other individuals in my network saw, like wow, she's, she's blooming, she's becoming who she needs to be and who the students need her. Um, and I started seeing like, wow, like I, can you know, like my presentation skills elevated to a place where I've never thought they would be like now.
Speaker 2:Um, my confidence in the way I speak about things, my, when people ask me questions, I'm like oh like you're like I noticed like you're coming to me to ask me this thing or um, like connecting with the students, working with you as colleagues, like Freaking, building a first gen program initiative that's never been seen before on this type of campus and impacting, like over thousands of lives, like, and then being called to say, hey, like do you want to teach right? Like grad school and undergrad at a different institution, like all of these different pieces. So I think myself like I went from a very, very dark moment in my life to not knowing who I was. Like it was really rough. I experienced a really bad experience. Um, to going to like this is the happiest I've ever been in my entire life.
Speaker 2:And I haven't you know like? Obviously, I've had a short career compared to yours. I've been one third of the way, Um, but it's still like. I had like over seven internships in graduate school. Um, not to say that the number counts, right, but it just, it, just um. I say that to say like I wanted to be working so bad. And then when I had that opportunity, did it for six months, hated it. Didn't think that I was ever going to be happy again.
Speaker 2:Found the light at the end of the tunnel and have now grown where she has a platform right, like she can see clients outside of work. She has her own students recommending her on campus. It's so cute all the time I hear that or when students like ask for me at certain things, um, creating a new first gen initiative on campus. Like I've grown and this has been such a leap and I think the little jumps have led to this big leap. And even in every month I think I grow more and more at UCLA and who I'm becoming as a professional.
Speaker 1:I love that it never stops just because you know maybe you might be newer in your career. But um, when I say I've been in the industry for 10 years, I still feel like there's so much to learn and grow right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say I think the misconception is like the title sometimes Arminay Like people are like well I went from the like entry level to mid to manager, and then they think that's the growth. I mean, yes, right, like physically on paper, that is the growth, but like it's how you how did you grow as an employee? And you're like, you're saying your skillset and things like that. I think a lot of you know our general society thinks it has to do with titles and status and money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, what I've learned is your title doesn't even matter, because most of the time you're not even doing.
Speaker 1:you're doing more in most places. You're doing more than what your job description says, Absolutely, and so your title doesn't matter so much as to your growth as a professional and even as a person, because you you, as you evolve as a professional, that also changes how you interact in your personal life. When you develop a new skill, that's going to come in a play with your personal life. It's going to impact your relationships and all of that. We've talked about that in our grad school episode how just going to grad school impacted our relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we know so much. So every experience, let's talk about our experiences teaching, because that's a whole other leap yeah.
Speaker 2:On its own. Oh my God, I can't even tell you. So, wow, you guys are going to think I'm like I don't even know how to say this but like when I was asked to teach, I was asked to teach undergrad before asked to teach graduate school. Okay, and that's that way. When I was asked to teach undergrad, I was like hell yeah it's a one unit class right Like group of students.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should be easy. One unit, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I had over. I had over five months to prepare. Okay.
Speaker 2:That's very rare in higher education, I've heard, as in the academic affairs side, that was no, no, no biggie. Then I was called two months later and was like hey, do you want to teach graduate school? I want to teach career counseling. The first class you took as a grad student, one, I was in a in a dark place because of my one of my family members had passed away. So it was a really really tough time personally and I remember being like what? Like excited as for my career and also like excited in my personal life because I knew that family member would be really proud of me yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So then I remember thinking like I got to teach this class in six weeks. Are you kidding me? And my mentors, the people who who guided me to teach this class, were like, girl, like six weeks is a long time. You have six weeks like that's like seven months in our heads and it was my first time teaching ever and I got to teach grad students. So I'm like, holy crap, these are people getting their master's degree in this little again. Here comes the little part where I'm thinking about my age. Little MJ is like gonna teach this class. Holy crap, my first class, arminette, and I've told you this and I told all of you guys when I taught my first class I've never felt so confident in my entire. I felt like the universe put me exactly where I need to be in front of the classroom.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:And that felt like a leap of its own. Yeah, taking that risk of even just trusting myself to do something like that yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. You are a natural and I know your students love learning from you, but that is amazing. Yeah, just in the short time. Right, you were just saying how short you're. Like, you've been in the industry for a short time, but you've done the equivalent of many years beyond.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in for those in not. In higher education there's a difference between student affairs and academic affairs and the positions work differently and they work together in some ways. But I have been on both sides in different capacities where, like Arminette was sharing being an advisor, being an advisor, there's different parts and different departments you work in. So I've been on the academic affairs side and the student affairs side.
Speaker 1:It's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of ping pong, is what it feels like, or?
Speaker 1:pinball or whatever. But it's brought you to where you are today and this made you even more of a well-rounded professional. Yeah, when my teaching journey started I was at Cal State LA. That was the first time when I got to teach the freshman class at Cal State LA, so it was like the intro to college class Some of you listening out there if you've taken like a intro to college, intro to higher ed, or sometimes in community colleges they're like counseling 10 class or something like that it's.
Speaker 1:That was my first class that I taught and I really I did that for probably three semesters consecutively and it was my chance to develop my curriculum. Like there was a set curriculum but very flexible, so you could really kind of bring in your own passion and skill sets to the class. So not only was I teaching but I also, like learned how to develop curriculum and I learned from my mistakes, where I remember the first semester, the finals and the final and the midterm where there was a lot of open-ended questions, because I like open-ended questions because I think that they show more about if the student learned the material in the class. But on the professor's side I didn't realize that I had to be then figuring out how to grade these open-ended questions to make sure everybody had a fair rubric and scoring system. So I had to learn from that experience and make adjustments every semester.
Speaker 1:But that was my first teaching experience. I kind of felt like I was thrown in. I was grateful to have the opportunity to be able to teach, but I also felt like, oh my gosh, I got to figure this out on my own. You know. Sure enough, I did right, did that for a few times and then I was asked to teach a grad class, my grad program, and it was a career counseling class.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we have such similar backgrounds.
Speaker 1:I know, I know it's insane, but yeah, I got to teach that, so that one was more so co-teaching with different faculty in the department, but it was a really great experience. I love doing that, but teaching graduate students was a different level.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I love teaching, but the grad students I freaking loved. Yeah, I love teaching the undergrads too. They were really good. They're really good students and they love the material and the content. I was having so much fun, but I think because I was also with the undergrads a shorter amount of time too, so I got to know the grad students a little bit more. They're such different populations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they are, and I enjoyed both in different ways and both had their own challenges in different ways. But I remember when I got the call I was like oh my gosh, like didn't even expect this at all, and I was like yes, yes. And I remember at some point the my faculty coordinator, who had asked me to teach that class, was giving me a recommendation for a job and she told me what she said and one of things she said was Arminay would just jump, you know, at an opportunity and and like take that leap. Essentially I don't remember exact the words that she used, but she was like Arminay, you know, just took it and roll, run with it and did an excellent job and like that's part of her quality, right? So it all kind of goes back to taking that leap.
Speaker 2:And that's true. I will say that's true of Arminay even now. I've known her for the last.
Speaker 1:I feel like.
Speaker 2:I've known you for a very long time and it's been such a short time. But that's very true of Arminay. When she has something in her hands or a project, or an opportunity to do something, she will literally like make it go magic it's. It's amazing to watch and to see her also be herself at work too. Well thank, you.
Speaker 1:I will say, as we're thinking about taking leaps, there was a time where I didn't take a leap. Yeah, I know, I just I remember this situation. So I was just about to graduate from grad school, so my second year in grad school I was the TA for our counseling practicum class and that was like a year long class, very intense, very. We've talked about grad school in a previous episode, how counseling programs can be very emotionally draining. So that was the class right when, like it's emotionally draining and I was a TA for that class.
Speaker 1:Then that following year, as I was graduating, that professor he asked me he's like I think you can teach this class, do you want to teach it next year? And I said no, I know, I know I'm like oh my gosh, I can't believe I took like I passed up that opportunity. But that just goes to show like at that time I wasn't confident enough to do that independently. I was confident enough to be the TA. Yeah, but in that my role as a TA, he saw that I could do it and I didn't see it in myself and he was like do you want to teach this class? I was like no, I'm too young to teach a graduate class. But sure enough, like two or three years after that I taught the graduate class. But that goes to show how much I grew in the two to three years professionally that I felt confident to teach a graduate class at that point, but not when I was graduating, I'm trying to think of a time when I haven't taken the lead, but I think I dang, I can't even.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there are, I just can't remember. Oh no, I can totally tell you, and I went through this whole story of okay, hold on, let me. Let me. Let me start from the beginning.
Speaker 2:So when I was leaving graduate, I guess they're both are both of our nonleafs happened right at the end of graduate school. When I was leaving graduate school, I also finished my graduates, my graduate program, early I will preface that. So I finished earlier than a normal human being. What completed? Because I don't know, I'm crazy and I was asked to stay at the career centers as an assistant director of career counseling oh, that's right. And I denied the position three times. Wow, okay, this is a. It's not a long story, but it's a. It's a complicated story that I can tell you offline. Essentially, I was graduating in two weeks, was a December grad and nobody's hiring around Christmas time or the holidays, so it was a horrible time to graduate once.
Speaker 1:So if you're graduating early.
Speaker 2:Think about that, because I know graduating early feels nice and looks nice, but also think about where people are and hiring and what positions you want to go into. That's a really like something that I didn't think about and I think it's just because I was first and my mind was more out of academic achievement. Yeah, so at the time when I was graduating- graduate school they needed to fill this role of assistant director of career counseling and I was asked to do it.
Speaker 2:I was asked by the vice president of student affairs which those of you in student affairs, you know that is the boss of the boss of the boss, that is everybody's, that is the person that oversees the entire student affairs of university. Came and asked me directly three times to take this position and I said no Each time. Yeah, and I remember saying like no, I need to. I need to go and grow.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then those were the six worst six months of my life. So you can already, like already, imagine the amount of guilt and regret. Oh, my God, I had so much regret, but it's okay because look where I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it all worked out. But yeah, how interesting that one time you didn't take the lead Absolutely Was when.
Speaker 2:I learned the most. Honestly, sometimes you learn the most in the worst times. Yeah, and that's just the way life goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, truly. But all this to say, right, like you all can hear our journeys and the different challenges and the different types of experiences we've had and the opportunities that have come our way because we build our own industries that we love, right, yeah, but at the end of the day, every single experience has been a growing experience. Whether we took the leap or not has been a growing experience too. Yeah, so our message to you all today is take the leap, roll with the punches and, as Nike says, just do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nike sponsor us because we want our audience to just do it.