Acts 10 - 11:18 - Community Vision

Summary:
In Acts 10-11 we've got more visions and trances and words from the Lord -- including, "Go, kill and eat!" Those words may have been bad news for the "unclean" animals but great news for the "unclean" among us. Gregg Demey (Lead Pastor), Caryn Rivadeneira (Director of Care and Worship Planning), and Peter "Rev" Semeyn (Pastor Emeritus) wade into all things "clean" and "unclean" and how Peter's vision speaks to us today. 

Today's Hosts
Gregg DeMey, Lead Pastor
Jeff Klein, Pastor of Outreach
Caryn Rivadeneira, Director of Care

Questions/Comments:  We'd love to hear from you! Email ASK.

Note: Wade in the Word is a weekly podcast designed to take a deep dive into scripture for the weekend message. Join our pastors, staff, and occasional special guests as we reflect together.

Wade in the Word podcast is a production of Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, located in Elmhurst, IL. Wade in the Word is produced and audio-engineered by Kyle Olson, Technical Director. For more information about Elmhurst CRC or to find out about other tools and resources to grow you and your family in faith, visit elmhurstcrc.org.

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

vision, people, god, peter, Jesus, Cornelius, church, gospel, congregation, unclean, confirmation, raised, thinking, day, leadership, called, person, eat, holy spirit, lives

SPEAKERS

Caryn Rivadeneira, Gregg DeMey, Peter Semeyn "Rev"

Gregg DeMey  00:00

Hey, friends welcome to the Elmhurst CRC wait in the word podcast; we're working our way through the book of Acts today as Acts chapter 10. And the first half of chapter 11 or so, sitting here with Caryn Rivadeneira, our Director of Care here at the church. 

Caryn Rivadeneira  00:17

Hello, good to be back. And a famous older friend, Rev. Peter Semeyn. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  00:24

Yeah, great to be here. Thank you very much fun to be back. This should be a great conversation. We used to have these without microphones in the hallway, indeed. It's not like something I haven't done before. 

Gregg DeMey  00:34

The rest of the world gets to listen in exactly. So Rev is actually going to preach on this passage on Sunday. So I thought it would be great for us to talk it down in advance. So for sure, in these chapters of the book of Acts, God is sending vision after vision, and x chapter nine, Saul of Tarsus has this incredible vision. And then a man named Ananias has a vision and an X chapter 10. Peter is going to have a vision of what you mean. Simon Peter, yeah. Peter, feel free to have whatever visions that God sends you to read. So we are also going to take a quick look back and feel the question on Acts chapter nine; we have opened up an email address called ask@elmhurstcrc.org. And if you have a question in response to a Sunday morning worship service or anything that comes up as we discuss God's word, we'd love for you to fire off a question, and very well, we might address it in a future podcast. Yes. So along the lines of all these visions and hearing from God, we had a question come in that asked this first observes that took a lot of nerve, spiritual nerve physical nerve for Anand is to barge into Paul's house and say, God, told me to tell you blankety-blank. What do we think about this today? What if God would give us a message for another person? What's the best way to deliver that, especially if the person is terrifying? Like it's all of Tarsus would have been to analyze? What if the person is actually there to put you in jail? How do you deliver that message? So a couple of thoughts. Number one is, I would say this is not for spiritual beginners. Right, like we know, from a later passage in the book of Acts 22, that Ananias is as well respected amongst all the Jewish folks in Damascus. And as one of the early disciples or followers of Jesus, so he's at a very high maturity level. The second thing that I observe is that God doesn't just give Anna nice a word; he confirms it in a number of ways to put in a nice, like, very solid and secure ground that like yes, this really is me, God, delivering this word to Saul of Tarsus. So God tells him, like, go to this particular house on the straight street, and you'll find a man named Saul of Tarsus, and, and then this word, you know, to pray for him, lay hands on him, heal him and pray that he'll be filled up with the Holy Spirit. And indeed, he goes to that house on that street, finds a man matching Saul of Tarsus his description. So I think at that point, with all of those confirmations, you would be emboldened to carry on to the next part. And again, and Ananias resisted, he didn't want to go salts reputation would have scared him off. So he puts us in front of God, and God's responses. Actually, I'm choosing this guy, for sure; it's surprising, but he's going to be my chosen instrument to bring the word to the Gentiles, and he's going to suffer so much for the name of Jesus. So all of that, I think, like confirmation helps get Antonius over the hurdle of doing this. So if you think you have a word to be like, I should go to my neighbor's house and just tell them that they should cut their lawn more often. Because God raised a really nice-looking lawn that's what God cares about. Yep,

Caryn Rivadeneira  04:07

yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah, to that point like if you're not, and I don't think most of us are no offense to present company but an ionized caliber maybe you too, right you know of respect and spiritual maturity and all those sorts of things. You guys certainly are the probably for most of us, maybe that would be a good conversation to have with a let another confidential, wise spiritual person know like, Hey, I feel like God is saying this and see if there's any Yeah, if it gets a little confirmation that way to not to be gossipy not to be that sort of thing, but just to kind of get some affirmation and help you discern that that is indeed

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  04:42

it does. As Greg was talking about it, the thought that came to my head was, was it this does enter into the preaching category, right? When you stand before a congregation, you say, let's say at the Lord, which is kind of a weird thing to say anyway, but That, that is exactly, but that's what's God called you to do. You're speaking to a congregation of people. And sometimes, what you're saying is stuff people don't like to hear. And so you've got to, you know, kind of be sure that this is what God is really saying through this. And he wants to say to this congregation, and some people aren't going to like it, you don't know how they're going to respond. I mean, I don't know if anyone is, I mean, and I just had confirmation that this is the way he would respond. But you still don't know for sure until you put it out there. And so I think this happens today. But I like your idea of before I dropped this on the person I think it's for. Let me tell somebody else and see if I get more confirmation.

Gregg DeMey  05:39

Yep. So for sure. God, unusually, provides all sorts of direct confirmation from himself. I think more ordinary circumstances. God trusts us to vet that out with wise counselors, or like Karen church leadership, if something comes from the elders, versus like a single staff person. Yeah. Right. You can trust like the Holy Spirit has moved and spoken and brought about unity and consensus in a way that it's not just, you know, a random pastor or staff person out there. Lone Ranger in it, right? Yep,

Caryn Rivadeneira  06:12

that's good. I like that. You compared it to sermon Stokes. I just thought that there's any number of probably terrifying people who maybe are like, they might not be terrifying to you say what kind of turns people yeah, I'm teasing. Oh, you're not right.

Gregg DeMey  06:33

All right. We are going to forge on into Acts chapter 10. And yet another vision so kick us off current.

Caryn Rivadeneira  06:41

It says; there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion, in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout, and God-fearing he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon, he had a vision; he distinctly saw an angel of God who came to him and said Cornelius; Cornelius stared at the angel and fear. What is it, Lord, he asked; the angel answered, Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. Now send men to Java to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter, he is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  07:23

When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants, and at about soldier who was one of his attendants. He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Jabba. 

Gregg DeMey  07:35

Alright, we'll leave it off at verse eight there for now. But yet another vision from God and surprising recipient of this vision once again, not a Jewish person, not someone who is previously a Jesus follower. And indeed, someone who is part of the power structure like the man as it were a Roman centurion. I mean, it sounds like a great guy sounds like a model. citizen, somebody who's already plugged in to God's heart, in many ways, and God chooses to start connecting some amazing dots that are going to point back to Jesus. So we use the word vision; I woke up thinking about you this morning, I think just with that word, because like when I think of the word vision rev, you're one of the people who comes to mind. And I think maybe our modern usage has both some maybe connection and continuity with like, the kind of visions that are happening in the book of Acts, but also maybe some discontinuity. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I thought about that as well.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  08:43

I mean, I think Gregg, maybe it's kind of alluding to the whole vision process that went through several years ago, and the revision of Elmhurst, Christian Reformed Church, what we think God is calling us to do, and it was certainly a discernment process. I mean, we met for almost a year with a very diverse group of people and came out clearly thinking with that statement, this is what God is calling us. This is the vision. And, you know, one of the mantras of a vision is that it's a picture of your preferred future; where do you want to go for the future? And so when we talk about vision, we're talking about that idea. And one of the roles of leadership, I think, is to continually nurse and put that vision before people are; this is where we're headed. And this is why we're headed there. And so, it certainly fits in my mind with this passage. We use that word vision; they had a vision. It's the whole idea. I think that it comes in a dream that you have privately that makes people question, 

Gregg DeMey  09:42

it's not usually part of our process. So yeah, but that phrase, a picture of our preferred future, is such a great turn of phrase, right? I think everybody can kind of like feel that or we have moments where you see a relationship, or you See your vocation or you maybe sometimes even geographically see like a neighborhood or a place where you're like, oh, I really would love to be there or live there. In the case of the book of Acts, it's God is sharing his preferred picture of the future. Right with people in some of these extraordinary dreams and imaginative moments. So for me, there's also a connection, like with the creative process, and for sure, most of our vision processes are collaborative and involve any number of people, and there's creative power and energy, and that sitting here with Caryn, who writes books and Rev who writes sermons, I write some music from time to time. And for sure, on an individual level, I would say probably we've all had the experience of feeling like, you know, cleverness, but it's like you're receiving or like channeling some, you know, vision. Now, there are times when I write sermons; you both know this? 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  11:12

Well, I've said this before, we're like, you can't, your fingers can't keep up with your mind on the keyboard, because it's not me, trying to think of some clever phrase or some wording, it's just coming from outside of myself, which I believe is the Holy Spirit, giving you these ideas to write down and then to deliver to the congregation. And that's, I'm sure, people who don't write like that. I mean, the three of us know what that's like because that's what we do. But other people are kind of going, Oh, really, I'm an accountant. And that never happens. I add numbers, you know, or whatever. But I think creatively,

Caryn Rivadeneira  11:44

 I would love to hear from accountants who are like; sometimes I'm just adding the figures. Creative, right? I mean, I'm in prison now. But yeah.

Gregg DeMey  11:55

I'm not trying to beg on your accounts. Because obviously, some people are extraordinarily creative with their vision and nuance of numbers. 

Caryn Rivadeneira  12:04

To hear if there is sort of the math the science pays because we don't talk about you know, and yeah, in creative circles, it's the reason why the idea of the Muse exists, which, you know, I connected the movement of the Holy Spirit, you know, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, that, that you can't really understand where these things come from. And certainly, that's vision. However, it does seem like in the book of Acts, the visions that they're in, I agree, I mean, I'd written down the words like imagination and stuff when you brought that up. But these seem to be visions, visions of dreams of trances, and I can't get the word trance out of my head because that's a very scary word. I think most people, if I said I was in a trance and had a vision, I think I've said this for right. I think people would be like, Whoa, what were you doing? And yet, that's the sort of stuff that's 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  12:49

a lot of us hear Twilight, zone music from the Internet TV show?

Caryn Rivadeneira  12:55

No, exactly. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  12:56

Like if I, but if you mean that when you look back in Scripture, this is the way God communicates. Right? Abraham had a vision. Samuel had a vision about who the next king was going to be, even while there was a king. You know, Daniel had visions. Gee, Jesus' mother had a vision, the father as well. And Zacharias had a vision all about the same thing and different ways. And so these kinds of dreams and Pilot's wife had a dream vision. So it's very frequent throughout scripture that this happens. And this was the way God worked in people's lives. We just, I think, talk about it differently. Yeah. So what is enlightenment? Or like, yeah, that's not.

Gregg DeMey  13:37

for too smart. Well, yeah, I think we live our lives with such trust in the visible world that our default position is not much going on in the invisible world. And that, I think, puts the kibosh on our ability to have some of these experiences that have their point of origin in the invisible world. So having a sister who lives in a part of the world that doesn't have much technology, is a frequent thing. I mean, there are hardly any Christians in the part of the world where she lives, and most people who come to faith there is some kind of dream or imaginative vision experience where Jesus shows up, or God speaks. And that's like the final Domino to fall in bringing them to faith. Yeah.

Caryn Rivadeneira  14:27

That's cool. And my, I was telling you recently, a professor mine is in this had been spent time in the same part of the world and said the exact same thing he was sharing stories of people would show up, but their worship services because I had a dream Jesus said to be here. I mean, just very specifically. So what happened

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  14:41

in third-world countries all the time, even with medical things, right? I mean, they pray through something in a miracle happens. Why doesn't that happen here? Because we're so trusting in our medical field that we don't rely on that kind of thing that often. Yeah.

Gregg DeMey  14:56

Yep. My sister had experienced just this last year that this has happened to her. So Several times where someone will come up to her, This was on public transportation and say, I saw you in a dream. You have a message for me. Well, yeah, that's right. Yeah, no. So there's not that many, you know, blonde women running around. So like she, it stands out a little bit. But anyway, I also think this is a little more lighthearted. But like more on the creative level, because I think this, this, for sure visions are part of God's way to break through to us in a spiritual level. But it is Paul McCartney, one of the Beatles, right? He woke up in the morning one day with the song yesterday in his head or the melody. And again, like What is that like the trance of sleeping, or your unconscious mind and sleep or the Muse smiling or like, like, for me, that's probably the greatest Beatle song even though it's not like poppy or energetic, like, whatever that's on gets me. And that he woke up in the morning. And he was convinced, like, the melody was so beautiful that he couldn't have written it. So he started asking around, like, singing and he didn't have the words yet. and was like, Where's the song from? And no one could tell him the answer. And ultimately, George Martin, who's the producer, or the Beatles, or like, bro, like, I think you've written that song. Yeah. So let's start working a little bit. And

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  16:21

yeah, there are musicians that you know that it's that kind of, I think, musicians. So you think of in musician terms, current things in like, fictional maybe literary terms of writing your books is my granddaughter loves to read, by the way. And, and I tend to think about the kind of stuff that I write, but it's just like, so I was working on this sermon this week, for Sunday. And last night, I was kind of thinking about it; I just couldn't write anything. It did. Nothing made sense. But that's when I got up. And all of a sudden, there was whole new energy around some ideas I was putting together, like, and I know that that's the Holy Spirit. It's not like I didn't have a vision. I didn't dream about it last night that I remember. But I came up this morning with a whole new structure to what I was thinking about and thought one that I'll come over here for this conversation; I might have a whole nother set of ideas. So we'll see where it goes. 

Gregg DeMey  17:12

Yeah. As I get older, early morning, I think, is the greatest time. Like as a musician, I love the hours between 12 and three in the morning. What do they have in common? Yeah, but it's tough to be a writer from 12 to three and then again, at five. You kind of got to pick one route or the other. But in either sense like those hours that kind of when most people are sleeping, feel like such an open and transparent and like more of the defenses are down, and there's less like noise and energy in the world. So more. I just feel more open that the Holy Spirit or the creative spirit can kind of like speak or whisper; that's just that's when things happen. Yep, sir. Creative. It's early mornings. Yep, we do. Yeah. Whoa. All right. So Cornelius has this vision. It's super clear. Let's take it for there. Will you continue reading for us? Rev.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  18:05

Yes, I will pick it up at verse nine. about noon The following day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city. Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat. And while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance; he saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth, by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then I've always told him, get up, Peter, kill and

Gregg DeMey  18:41

eat, or surely not, Lord, Peter replied, I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  18:47

The voice spoke to him a second time, do not call anything impure that God has made clean.

Gregg DeMey  18:54

This happened three times, and then immediately, the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Caryn Rivadeneira  18:59

While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. They called out, asking if Simon, who was known as Peter, was staying there. While Peter was still thinking about the vision. The Spirit said to him, Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them for I have sent them to Peter went down and said to the men, I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come? The men replied We have come from Cornelius, the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man who is respected by all the Jewish people. The Holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say. Then Peter invited the men into his house to be his guests.

Gregg DeMey  19:46

Alright, awesome. Again, so many visions and God is kind enough to provide some major confirmation here. Again, part of the vision is like find this person, here's where they're going to be. Here's the exact geographical location, and lo and behold, from a city that's like dozens of miles away, there's this exact person in this exact place. So just in case you are suspicious or wondering pretty awesome confirmation. So this vision that Peter has, like he's hungry, not early morning vision, kind of a mid-day, possible hunger, Pang vision, up on the roof, very nice. Someone else is making lunch for him. And he falls into a trance. We could speculate on what that means. I mean, this would be possibly kind of one of the hours of prayer, so it has been Peter's daily rhythm going back. I mean, to Jewish roots, to spend time in the presence of God. And, you know, some days prayers feel more perfunctory, some days, like heaven opens, some days, you get to a quiet place with God where some internal window opens. And that seems like one of those days that Peter is up on the roof praying alone, and God opens this amazing window. So this vision of as you read rev a sheet, four corners, and it's filled with animals. Not fuzzy cute animals, like all the unclean animals that are forbidden for consumption from the Old Testament laws. And Peters Peters initial reaction to this is really understandable, I think.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  21:26

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was so foreign to him that he would even see or embrace these things because they were emitted from day one birth to the present. They were forbidden for him to even think about, let alone to entertain the idea of eating them. And so I mean, it is a dream, but early on to him, it probably seemed like a nightmare. I mean, what is going on here? This is not a blanket full of uncleanliness.

Caryn Rivadeneira  21:55

Even to us, it would be super weird, right? It probably wasn't like a cow and even ago. I mean, it would have been like a camel and snakes and all these things that would just be like, Ah, that those reptiles are?

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  22:08

Yeah, my wife can't read this passage because she hates snakes. And so to think that reptiles Oh, good. That's God sending me reptiles. And I sided Gator.

Caryn Rivadeneira  22:22

Yeah, like that. It was like a nightmare. Exactly. Because that would be shocking. And I mean, it's so weird. I actually meant to see if there are any like visual representations. If anyone's like painted this as a portrait of sex it would be it is really, really weird to think about, especially that it's a big sheet. Because those are the animals fighting, are they getting along? My brain goes to all those.

Gregg DeMey  22:42

Well, the other part of the command from God, I mean, it's not just eat, it's killing and eat, which again, for our modern sensibility is like nobody I know kills their food on the regular. So like there'd be a lot more vegetarians in the United States of America. If we all had to, like bring in chickens back before, we wouldn't have

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  23:00

butchers in slaughterhouses. We would all be vegetarians because we couldn't make it right. So somebody else is doing it for us. Right? But I mean, and I mean, we know that today, you go to a beautiful townhouse in downtown Chicago, and a Jewish family will have a kitchen and a kosher kitchen because that's where only the kosher meals can be fixed. None of this unclean stuff can go in there. And so it's not if you understand all about even a contemporary Jewish culture, you kind of get it. But this had to be completely, I mean, completely radical for Peter. 

Gregg DeMey  23:37

Yeah, so this is more of a random superficial question. But do you have any favorite foods that would have been on the Jewish non-kosher or unclean list? 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  23:45

Besides pulled pork sandwich?

Gregg DeMey  23:47

Behind bacon? I think I would have to go maybe lobster, or there's so many types of like no shellfish are allowed in the Old Testament. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  23:56

All of those are that's way too healthy for me making their pulled pork I could live without lobster before I could give up bacon. I don't know. Everything is better with bacon. 

Gregg DeMey  24:07

Agreed. I was a vegetarian for a while and routinely heard vegetarian say, oh bacon gateway food

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  24:17

for exactly exactly

Caryn Rivadeneira  24:19

 what's interesting to me, though, too about this vision or this whatever is that he says Get up, Peter kill and eat. But we don't get the thing that like immediately Peter went out and slaughtered you know, so like, that's, I like that sort of. I don't know. Not that it wasn't obedient. But I feel like maybe Peter would obviously, and we'll read about this a little bit, takes it on a deeper a different kind of level about why it was so radical for him. You couldn't like the first time you saw a show had to be a shocking right, you know, using completely. Are you kidding me? And then it came a second time and then a third time? I mean, again, yeah, it was like yes. Finally, the third time Yeah. So clearly, it was high on God's agenda in old tests.

Gregg DeMey  25:00

Revelation to create a people that was different and holy set apart, unique. And one aspect of that was dietary laws and restrictions. So God's deeper concern for sure is His Holiness. But no matter what culture you're in like we all every culture has some kind of concept of insiders and outsiders; you're clean or unclean if you do this, or if you think this, you're on the outside. And I mean, I think for sure, living through a pandemic, like if you've ever coughed in public in the last year, or sneezed on an airplane, or been even behind a mask in a crowded room, as everyone looks at you, with the eyes of You, sir, are unclean, right in a way that I've never looked been looked at that way before.

Caryn Rivadeneira  25:53

It's true. And like the mortification of like coughing or you know, right now, whatever my allergies are starting to top again, and so I'm like, Oh, great. Here we go. Right. It's like you become this. pariah, understandably, like,

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  26:05

I mean, yeah. So I think, I don't think I don't know if I want to use the word unknowingly. But we all collect prejudices and biases along the way. And so when I was thinking, I'm Peter was raised this way was raised, this is cleanliness. This is we as Jews; we don't do this. So this was a completely radical idea. But you kind of think of, well, how was I raised? And what were these differentiations and a very particular one, which will be relevant to where we are today, is when I was growing up the whole difference between being RCA and CRC. I mean, there was a huge division that never was to be crossed. My wife grew up in South Island, Illinois, was RCA. Those RCA kids all went to the public school and then went to hope. CRC kids all went to the Ileana Christian, and then they went to Calvin. I mean, it was just like, we just didn't mix. I mean, it's like this. Oh, you know, how they think, you know, you know, how they think, you know, they're more liberal or more, you know what to consider. I mean, we all have these ideas that we have in our heads. And I had that myself. And then, you know, God, in His own sense of humor, brought this little RCA boy to the

Gregg DeMey  27:22

Yeah, so Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, CRC, is now going on more than 10 years of having both a Christian reformed pastor and a Reformed Church of America pastor. Right. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  27:33

Yeah. Which, you know, I mean, it sounds weird, but, you know, 30 years ago, never heard of, 

Gregg DeMey  27:39

no, I know, I know, from my parents, if one of them had come home dating across denominational lines, their parents would have said that down and set them down. And it would have been forbidden. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  27:50

I mean, I served the Christ Church of Oak Brook in the 80s. Right, I did a lot of weddings, but I had at least two or three weddings where parents would not come to their child's wedding. Because they're married, I mean, Catholic or Protestant. That was a Catholic. So marry Protestants. I'm not going if you're married or Protestant and or if you're married a Catholic, I mean, parents wouldn't come to their kid's wedding them like going, who? 

Gregg DeMey  28:10

Yeah, so happily, we Christians don't have enough cultural dominance to indulge in that kind of differentiation in the same way anymore. Like, I think it's beautiful in a way, like as Christianity in North America becomes more of a minority movement, that church like Elmhurst CRC can include people who grew up in non-Christian houses, and Christian reformed houses and Roman Catholic houses, and every denomination and I mean, so many different countries that are even represented right here in Elmhurst these days. So there are advantages to not having too much cultural poll. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  28:46

I don't distribute. 

Caryn Rivadeneira  28:47

The reason, though, do you think that that's why now is a cultural poll that people are more open to? I mean, I just see it is more of a fine. So I sort of see that as kind of in the same pool. It's like people were just; there was the thinking that it was okay to say like, No, we need to stick to our own. 

Gregg DeMey  29:24

Or we perhaps also have re-channeled some of that energy into other categories. Because these days, I mean, in my own extended family system, if you would complete the sentence, I voted for blank in the last election one way or the other, depending on who the people are there. You would instantly be in the I think I'm disgusted by you, like almost on an unclean kind of level category. So somehow we become more comfortable. I mean, if you look at surveys from 50 years ago, like it was almost 5050 republicans marrying Democrats, and that is like, I mean, now young people are like, I don't know if I could date political preferences. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  30:04

Yeah, I mean, that's one area. I mean, and so my parents were divorced, I was from a single-parent family from a divorced home. And Becky was from the solid, you know, we stay together. We don't have any divorces in our family. And, you know, other than the fact that I'm just a little weird personality. There was some questioning just about my background. I mean, you're marrying a kid who came from a divorced home. You know what that means? Well, no one had really studied exactly what that meant. But they had ideas and prejudices because that's what they had grown up about what that meant. And so, I mean, we have all of that today. I mean, right. So, whatever, whatever you're by, I mean, I think it's important for all of us to sit back and ask the question when you read this passage, do I have any prejudices or biases in my life? That I'm really not aware of? And I, you know, when I asked that question because I asked my question that question myself as I was preparing for the sermon kind of going, Oh, yeah, I have them. You know, it may be against the people who aren't as tolerant as I want them to be. I can't tolerate it. I'm not gonna tolerate exactly; I'm not gonna tolerate your intolerance.

Gregg DeMey  31:11

So the answer to your question is, yes, both consciously and more problematically at a deep-seated and unconscious level, and I'm sure we could have this conversation in every country, city village with every tribe on planet Earth. And there's some way that this manifests itself. Happily, though painter's vision is just about food and animals, it's not about people, right? Yeah. So God is animal. God isn't asking us to tolerate people. He's just trying to get us to expand our eat our diet. We might want to keep reading. Amazingly, the next bit touches on this if you would take us along.

Caryn Rivadeneira  31:51

 I will do that—the next day. Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Java went along. The following day, he arrived in South Korea; Cornelius was expecting them. And he called together his relatives, and close friends are Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him Get up, stand up. He said I'm only in my own myself. While talking with him. Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them, You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. So so when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?

Gregg DeMey  32:38

Then Cornelius tells him the story of his vision is almost verbatim of what we read earlier. So I'm going to skip ahead to Peter's response or reply to Cornelius his vision. Then Peter began to speak; I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation, the person who fears him and does what is right. You know, the message God sent to the people of Israel announcing the good news of peace through Jesus, who is Lord of all, I'm actually going to repeat Peter's message here. You know what has happened through the province of Judea beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached and how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power and how we went around doing good and healing all who are under the power of the devil because God was with him. And we are witnesses of everything Jesus did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised Him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. Jesus was not seen by all the people but by witnesses whom God had already chosen by us who ate and drank with him. After he rose from the dead, he commanded us to preach to the people and testify that Jesus is the one whom God as Judge of the living in the dead appointed, and all the prophets testify about Jesus that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins, through his name. And while Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. And the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out, even on Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  34:21

Then Peter said, and surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit, just as we have. So he ordered that they'd be baptized and the name of Jesus Christ, then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Gregg DeMey  34:38

Alright, so this is one of the epic breakthrough chapters of the gospel in the New Testament. So very quickly, the Holy Spirit connects the dots. In Peter and Cornell, he says life, and it spills out in all those who are in the same house, from dietary things and animals to Peter's being convinced that what this is really About is not the food that we put in our mouth, but it's really about the family and the sons and daughters that God is welcoming into his family. So yeah, another border is being crossed here that a Roman soldier, Cornelius, and then uncircumcised Gentiles are being overwhelmed with the message of the gospel filled with the Holy Spirit and responding just like the first Christians who are pretty exclusively of Jewish origin and practice.

Caryn Rivadeneira  35:35

Yeah, can we back up with one thing about Cornell? Yes. So when he's described as a god fear, I've always correct me if I'm wrong. Is that a non-Jewish prayer? Is that sort of like you're sort of like a Jew? You sort of are you respect the Jewish God even though you're not, so it wasn't? It's not calling him a Christian before this. He was a God-fearing Gentile. Okay. I just want to clarify that my own brain should look that up to you continuing your seminary education. I was reading, and I meant to ask Yeah,

Gregg DeMey  36:04

I think it means that he would either had a high level of curiosity was prep like practicing but probably had not converted.

Caryn Rivadeneira  36:11

He was clearly not circumcised; I would say, considering the hubbub that comes. But yeah, I mean, I it is fascinating because again, we have people who, you know, not only are they unclean, but this person again, sort of like Anand is going to Saul's house. I mean, this is a Roman centurion. This is someone who is their oppressor, and how, just again, offensive and hot. You know, we have a hard time thinking about that because we are, thankfully, and we're not really oppressed people. You know, we are in maybe small situations, individual things, but we're probably the freest people that have ever lived. And so it's hard to imagine this sort of terror that this would be that all of a sudden, somebody who, you know, it's the Nazis coming into a Jewish synagogue and saying, we want to, you know, worship with you Like, how, just how terrifying that is. and changing?

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  37:05

 Yeah, I think the one thing I think about in this section is when so earlier, God was working in two different people's lives separately, right? So Cornelius had a vision. And Peter had a vision. And we don't know, I mean, we know because we have the story in front of us for a long time. But those two people do not know that their visions are connected until somehow they get together and they start to talk in these divisions. And, but that happens all the time. I mean, you know, what, however, you think this happens that a girl can be raised in South Holland, Illinois, and go to Hope College because her mom and Aunt did. And a boy can be raised in Muskegon, Michigan, and go to Hope College because that's where you can play football as a freshman can come together and get married. That's two different visions about what your future is, never knowing who each other is. And then you come together, and you meet there. I mean, that's a common thing. I believe that God orchestrates those kinds of things. But, I mean, there's all sorts of there's I have a million, because I'm old, and I've been in the church a long time. There are a million illustrations of how God works in different ways, and then all of a sudden brings those visions together. double vision, yeah. Which I corrected with cataract surgery to tell a college story. That would be amazing.

Gregg DeMey  38:34

There's one amazing line is Peter is kind of relating the gospel. I mean, he talks about how I mean, Jesus goes around, doing good and healing, and then his crucifixion and how God raised Him from the dead. And then he does not offer any amazing proofs of the resurrection. But he says, like, we are witnesses, those who ate and drank with him. I mean, that's it, like if it's like, without intending to, I think it's such an amazing proof of the resurrection because there's no like laser light show. Or then we saw Jesus fly up into that, nope, just he was dead. God raised him, and we ate and drank with him after that.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  39:16

I mean, I think that that's what always amazes me about gospel presentations. I mean, even in the book of Acts, chapter two, you know, Peter just kind of does the same thing just tells the story of Jesus, and 3000 people become believers that day. And somehow, we think we have to have some magical story that's going to be compelling that will convert people or frighten them into believing Jesus. If you died tonight, what would happen to you? I mean, that's one of the questions that people ask all the time about evangelism, like going, let me frighten you into believing Jesus because love isn't good enough, right? But so this whole idea that you can just tell the simple story and let the Holy Spirit work. And when I look back on Billy Graham's ministry, he didn't do a lot of you know somersaults, and cap Poulter whatever, when he preached, he was a very simple preacher, and the Holy Spirit, Jesus used him powerfully to take that story and bring people to know Jesus.

Caryn Rivadeneira  40:10

Yeah. And I think kind of getting back to vision and imagination. So when you hear that, like, he's telling me they ate and drank with the person who is dead. So what that does is, I think it shows you that that person was there physically with them; it was not a ghost. They did not see whatever, because I don't think ghosts eat or drink. Not that I'm aware of. But if any of us know you would, ghosts, that Greg and I split right together, so but I feel like he just, here again, that's like the simple Gospel story, but it is so powerful. And it does get your mind going in these other directions that if you think about it, and you start contemplating and being open to it, right? It just allows all these ways for the spirit, to enter in and move into that story, which is cool.

Gregg DeMey  41:00

Yeah, so if I had never read the book of Acts before, I would forecast some choppy waters ahead from this moment. Because Jewish lifestyle, cultural commitment to God's spiritual life, every all of that patched into one was totally defined apart from and against the Gentiles. And now the Gentiles are in. So it turns out, this is one of God's themes in the book of Acts, crossing borders, expanding the embrace. But whenever those things happen, like, it probably wasn't so tough for people who are in the room to accept it. But like, how do you talk about this in a compelling way that is going to help people expand the walls of their their own heart? So, so God is still doing this today? I'm just wondering if maybe we've had any experiences where God has done something amazing. And, you know, perhaps it's met with a little eyeball rolling at the very least out resistance or contradiction at the Max revers wincing?

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  42:05

Well, no, I mean, I think that I mean, you know, the two of you know, a lot of these stories, but like, when you enter our ministry for a long time like I was, and one of the Greg knows, when we did this leadership, Strengths Finder, test things, one of my strengths is change. I like change. And I think God gives you that, you know, to bring about change, while changes, oftentimes, any kind of change is usually met with resistance, right? So I mean, one of the clear, I bought rolling things, was when we were a church in Traverse City was growing like crazy. And we were kind of landlocked and didn't know what to do. And we were having meetings about it. And so, how does the Holy Spirit speak in visions today? So I was reading an article in leadership magazine, I just like happened yesterday, an idea I had never heard of multi-site worship, where you can be one congregation, but meeting different locations. And so we opened these different sites. You know, that was the idea that we presented the congregation, and it was like, eye-rolling. Like, are you kidding me? That'll never work. I don't want to watch. I mean, all sorts of resistance to the idea. That worked for us there. And I mean, now it's all over the country, right? multi-sites are are relative and normally not really. Yeah, right. Yep. So and we have a live stream where you can worship multi-sites without having to go anywhere now. I mean, we have people worshipping in their summer homes all over the place. Exactly. Right. Now, the pandemic made its ultimate. Right. So I mean, that's just one thing. I mean, there's, yeah, a lot of them, you know, like, you know, the transition of music and worship? was another eye-rolling resistance kind of thing that, you know, be I wouldn't have gone through and congregations still working on it. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you know, currency. I mean, women in ministry, when I was first starting out in seminary, there were two or three women in my class because they couldn't go clean. At that time, you couldn't go to Calvin seminary. So they all went to Western seminary because it was reformed. But then I mean, using women in ministry was a whole nother eye-rolling resisted thing. I wish I could say it's over. But it's not necessarily, but yeah, I went through a few of these. So

Gregg DeMey  44:15

it turns out that there's a high correlation between maybe the spiritual gift of leadership or God's calling into leadership and the personality trait or characteristic that you mentioned, which is a high appetite for change. So as I look around our staff, as I think of other pastors that I know and work with, this is almost universally true. We have like an overblown or above average like appetite for change. And I think that's the most healthy manifestation. It's because we believe in the transformative power of the gospel. So, of course, things are going to be in the change in flux. And part of just the leadership gene is you don't want to keep things the same. You want to be open to the spirits leading; however, More broadly speaking, that is not equality or characteristic that is true of the majority of human beings. And as a person who loves the change in the church and is called to lead change, it is rich; if you mess around with other parts of my life, yeah, like I feel the loss or the needle. So I just want to say out loud, like, those of us who are called to be leaders are like well aware of this. And it's not just; it's not just that we default into, oh, I'm a leader. So of course, I'm, you know, my read on the amount of change that's necessary is the right one. Like this is part of the hard discernment work that you're called to do as elders, to represent the attitudes and God blessed variety that exists in a congregation, and try to not only decide what change but the right timing, and then how to communicate and Shepherd through that

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  45:56

having someone Greg and I worked together, we had numerous conversations about because our kind of pace of change rate of change was really high. But managing the rate of change for a congregation, what's the what, how do you do that? And you can't make all these radical changes immediately. I mean, I know some people who've done it; they've torn things up and throw them away. And that kind of worked for them. But I just think that more if you're concerned about your congregation, what is the rate of change and pace of change that a congregation can handle? And that's part of your stewardship; not just because you think you have to do it tomorrow doesn't make it right. Maybe it's a long road before you get there. And I was never called Peter patients, but I had to learn.

Caryn Rivadeneira  46:39

I think what's amazing, though, is I read this passage, and I just see just God's huge, inclusive heart like that is what God is all about has always been out. And yet how quickly, you know, you read the story, and just even in the early church, how quickly rules started coming into play. And, you know, and we still are like that now, like, we just don't like this kind of, you know, so yeah, there is the pace of change, and that is wise and all that as part of leadership. But in this moment, Jesus does not seem to concern with the pace of change. And yet, we always try to slow things down and put up our fences and say, Yeah, not you, not yet. Well, they,

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  47:19

they did end up having a little conference about this, in the book of Acts. That two apostles were not on the same page. We will get there. Yeah, exactly. So this is for future sermons that keep you interested.

Gregg DeMey  47:35

So just as evidence of this, like, Here, we are three people talking today, our ancestors are all of mostly Northern European extraction, or across the ocean, on a different continent than these stories took place. speaking a language that is probably like eight steps removed from the language they would have been speaking, our worship experience, the music that we use is like generations and generations different, like it gives great delight to the heart of God, I think, to transcend these differences, and expand the embrace. And for some reason, we tend to deify or sanctify our expression of it. So there's this tension of both, like loving what we've received and been grateful for it. And also recognizing that our experience of the church is our experience of the worship of God, like, it's also enculturated. And that part of it will not last like our grandchildren will not be singing the same songs. I mean, I have a kid who lives in Europe; I might have Spanish-speaking, grandchildren someday. My great-grandchildren, like, who knows from there, yeah, they might end up living in a totally different part of the world, right. But the important thing is that the gospel keeps widening and knocking down the borders that we humans tend to so quickly put up. I think

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  48:58

that's one of the difficult challenges of the church, though. And pragmatically is inclusion and who we include and who we don't include, meaning say, God has a door wide open, we should include everybody, but then there's this little sentence in there about everybody who believes and lives right is kind of what he's saying. And then so then there's the debate about, well, we can't just include them because they're not really living, right. And I'm like, going, Man, that just makes it really difficult for me to put all that together because I'm kind of a, I tend to be the more all-inclusive person and not have any too many standards. We put up their barriers for people to come because I think everybody ought to get the gospel.

Caryn Rivadeneira  49:39

I agree. And I think it's the difference of what life right looks like. And look, we are very particular we'd like to choose certain things that that means and ignore whole bunches of others. So it's like if it's not a struggle for us, or if it's easy for us to judge like that. We just have very easy.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  49:55

categories and then the what comes first, do you have to live right and then be Come part of God's family, or do you become part of God's family and then learn how to live, right? I'm big, I'm a big person,

Caryn Rivadeneira  50:06

Cornelius. He was having visions, you know, from angels and outside the Holy Spirit before he understood the gospel. So

Gregg DeMey  50:14

I think that's the heart of love. Yeah. And if you look at the way we raise our children, we don't expect them to come in out of the womb or come into the world and behave like a responsible family member, right? We give them years and decades and, or even when they were 30, or 40. Exactly. And we also recognize with children that it's far more important, what they want is caught rather than taught. So for sure, we talk about all kinds of things as a family, but you realize, like, by the time your kid is 20, like what really has made a difference is the values, the behaviors, the way they look at the world, that some of it you've talked about around the edges, but the reality it I mean, what's really at the core is what they have caught, but somehow, when people come into the church like we think you need, maybe to have all of that together. Yeah, rather than having this extended period of time, where you observe and listen and catch what the gospel and gospel lifestyle is all about. So if only we could give that much grace to everybody. Oh, man. Yeah, maybe even people who have been in the church for 30 years and still don't have everything straightened out. Yes. Right. Exactly. We're all raising our hands. Yeah. Okay. So just to illustrate that, indeed, this accepting this kind of stretching from the Holy Spirit is a problem now was problem 2000 years ago, launching into a few verses from Acts chapter 11. So the apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the Word of God. So when Peter went back up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers, that's kind of code for the Jewish Christians criticized him, there it is, and said, You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them. And starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story, and then Luke wrote the book of Acts, records, again, pretty much verbatim Peters entire vision is like Lucas, taking great pains to be like, you have to understand this person, you have to understand this. Maybe pick it up at verse 15. Rabbit.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  52:18

As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, John baptizes with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if God gave them the same gift he gave to us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God's way? When they heard this? They had no further objections and prays to God, saying, so then, even the Gentiles, God has granted repentance to that leads to life.

Gregg DeMey  52:51

Oh, amen. Yep. So it's becoming official, the gospel is officially gone from Jerusalem to Judea, to Sameria. And now, like, really, to the ends of the earth of Romans insurance are in on this. And maybe amazing credit to Simon Peter, fishermen of the city of Capernaum, who, in a very short leadership move, is able to bring everybody on to the boat, like the reaction and acceptance of Peters perspective and read on the will of God here seemed like his miraculous.

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  53:24

Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, there are so many parallels in this like, so I had a preaching gig this summer for a guy who was on sabbatical, and we were supposed to preach on the parables of Jesus and Jesus, one of the things that prompted a parable was Jesus being criticized by the religious leaders for hanging out with centers and eating with them, which are two different things. And this is the same thing here, right? So if you hang out with somebody, that's one thing but in this time when you ate with somebody that meant that you were welcoming them into your life you're really to be a part of a family you are going to join together you are going to be unified and that this is a whole biter now illustrating what it means to have Gentiles in your presence and in your body right is to be intimate with them and to be one with them.

Caryn Rivadeneira  54:14

I'm struck by the level of trust here because I'm it's such a beautiful line that Peter says like who was I to stand in God's way and I would love we could use that more often, but I feel like if I said that if I had done something kind of radical and hey, I invited all these people who you are going to be upset by in the church hose I understand that God's way I think people would be like, you know like sweat that's we are setting myself chief among them tend to be so skeptical, so distrustful and I'm just struck by that they listen to Peter and

Gregg DeMey  54:44

we're gonna talk we're back to like the confirmation Yeah, that God provided here because Peter can with absolute confidence, I think to say this and be very secure. Like he's not making this up, right. Like he was started with shock and disgust at this nightmare. of vision. Yeah. and ends with helping other people see it and praising God for it. Yeah, so there's this, I think deep thing within us on the topic of clean and unclean or like the psychology of disgust, like, the way it works is that like, we get contaminated, like most of us think of ourselves as clean or like, we're insiders in our own lives, right? And there are these things out there that if we associate with the wrong political people or someone who has this disease, or whatever it is, that's offensive and disgusting to us, like, we get contaminated. And what Jesus does and what is happening here. Is that exactly the opposite happens. The people that you think would contaminate you by bringing by God or bringing them into his family, and by being touched by the grace of Jesus, it's like reverse contamination happens. 

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  55:53

Yeah. I mean, I mean, this is what probably would be described best as a seismic shift in, in the, in the future of Christianity. I mean, this is so I don't think we can grasp how radical This is. I mean, the little things that we can talk about, where more inclusivity can't even come close to how radical This is, for Jews, who are believers in Christ now to include non-Jews jump? I mean, it's like, it'd be like me really embracing someone who graduated from Calvin. Beyond That's exactly right. Calvin grads that I love dearly, I would say it'd be like the University of Calvin Dubai. Right? Yeah.

Caryn Rivadeneira  56:44

Yeah, I think that just the contamination piece is so good. Because I think that is our fear. We're afraid of letting it's the whole hope of getting back to women in leadership. Well, that's super if we allow that, then it's like a slippery slope. We fear this contamination. If we welcome the LGBTQ community, then then it's kind of this, whatever end like no, that's not how the gospel works. Like, that's how our own fear works. That's how whatever, but we don't need to be afraid of that. If we feel like this is what the Spirit is leading us toward, if we feel like there are groups who should be welcomed and included, then we need to, yeah, believe in the power of the gospel. To do the, you know, the Gospels work.

Gregg DeMey  57:25

Yeah, that seems like a good note to end on. Yeah. So God bless you. Bring bring the word this Sunday, like, we need to hear this again, and again, and again. Because again, our human default is to shrink the borders for our own definitions and comfort. And it's the work of the Spirit of God to be in every generation. And I'm sure stretching the embrace. I'm

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  57:51

sure, in the 25 minutes I'll have on Sunday morning, this will all become clear to everyone. And they will leave Boyd; I know exactly what that means for us now. Perfect.

Gregg DeMey  58:03

Well, Holy Spirit, you're the one who gave us this word. You're the one who speaks in worship services. You're the one who leads us in visions and thoughts and in our imaginative and creative moments. So do hope and pray, dear listener, that this is part of expanding your own hearts. And God bless your rev is your God's man for this Sunday. And it's a good moment for our church. Yeah, well,

Peter Semeyn "Rev"  58:27

I'm excited about it. And now I got to go home and rewrite what I already have down because this whole conversation is about some more ideas. Perfect. Thank you for having me.

Gregg DeMey  58:39

I love hanging out with you. Thanks to Billy Heschel, our recording engineer, this morning. If you heard any piano notes in the background, we do have an instrument being tuned even as we speak, heard it a few times, but hey, no, we have earmuffs on. You don't right. I thought I'd like to think of the Holy Spirit's work that way to have kind of like gently bringing the church back into tune all the time. Because Yeah, also thanks to Sheri Van Spronsen Leppink, who helps keep our communication hopefully as clear and straightforward as possible. Hopefully, see many of you in person outdoors in worship on Sunday. Peace