Acts 14 - and I get up again...

Summary:
On this week's Wade in the Word, Paul gets knocked down -- but he gets up again! That's the focus of our wade into Acts 14. Join Gregg DeMey, Kyle Olson, and Kyle Groters as they explore the poisoned minds, offensive talk, revisiting old haunts, and "old females" in the passage.

Today's Hosts
Gregg DeMey, Lead Pastor
Kyle Olson, Technical Director
Kyle Groters, Student Ministries Coordinator

Questions/Comments:  We'd love to hear from you! Email ASK.

Note: Wade in the Word is a weekly podcast designed to take a deep dive into scripture for the weekend message. Join our pastors, staff, and occasional special guests as we reflect together.

Wade in the Word podcast is a production of Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, located in Elmhurst, IL. Wade in the Word is produced and audio-engineered by Kyle Olson, Technical Director. For more information about Elmhurst CRC or to find out about other tools and resources to grow you and your family in faith, visit elmhurstcrc.org.

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

barnabas, people, paul, god, church, opposition, hardships, life, gospel, happening, zeus, city, kyle, offensive, elders, speaking, feel, crowd, love, experience

SPEAKERS

Kyle Olson, Gregg DeMey, Kyle Groters

Gregg DeMey  00:02

Friends Welcome to the Elmhurst CRC wait in the word podcast where leading up to Labor Day weekend and going to dive deep into Acts chapter 14 today, Pastor Gregg DeMey, with you along with a double-barrel full of Kyle's. On my left is Kyle Olson what's up our tech director and one of Chicago lands drummers. extraordinaire. Kyle's been handling many of the Wednesdays in our daily devotion experience. Yeah, for welcoming the first time. He's been behind the scenes for a bunch of the podcasts but is up to the mic. And the young Kyle, the young Kyle, Kyle Groters, our new leader of youth ministries, yeah, who has been getting things done in recent days, trying to awesomely and Kyle born in Italy, born on the island of Sicily.

Kyle Groters  01:05

There are eruptions occurring presently there's a volcanic eruption and then just erupted.

Gregg DeMey  01:10

Yeah. Oh, mercy. Truly the world the things have been boring lately. It just needs more just hasn't been enough happening more action and more volcanism and just turbulence. Please write the Lord have mercy. But moved here. As a kid really is a son of this congregation. A graduate of Timothy Christian Schools, a graduate of Moody Bible College, and a student who is almost done with his master's of divinity degree at Trinity Evangelical Deerfield seminary, aka Ted's Yeah. So this would kind of be a TED talk then. Oh, hey, there it is. It would be Kyle's talk. I'll just be quiet here. Nope. It's super, super glad you all are here. So shall we hit it? Let's do it. Yeah. All right. We're going to read Acts 14, one through seven. And then have a little conversation about that part. So cow groaners. kick us off, please.

Kyle Groters  02:13

Yeah, absolutely. At a conium, Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed, but the Jews who refuse to believe stirred up the other Gentiles and poison their minds against the brothers.

Gregg DeMey  02:31

So an important little word right there. So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord who confirmed the message of His grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

Kyle Olson  02:46

The people of the city were divided, some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles, there was a plot of foot among both Gentiles and Jews, together with their leaders to mistreat them, and to stone them. But they found out about it, and fled to like to in cities of Lystra and Derbe. And to the surrounding country, seven out where they continued to preach the gospel.

Gregg DeMey  03:11

That was verse seven, yes, every day. So we have met up again with Paul and Barnabas in the midst of their first missionary journey. So they have traveled overseas, they have been on the island of Cyprus, they traveled by sea, again, back to what is modern-day Turkey. And now this is the first time they really are kind of venturing out into the hinterlands of the Roman Empire. There still are Jewish communities in all the cities that they are going to however, smaller and smaller in terms of being their minority movements in these cities. So just want to note that, you know, Paul and Barnabas have this habit, they show up at the Jewish synagogue, no matter where they go. And one of the other themes is becoming that almost immediately they encounter strong opposition. So in verse two, it says that the local Jewish population stirred up Gentiles and poisoned their minds. Like that's a pretty strong turn of phrase right there to poison the minds of the local population. And Paul and Barnabas his reaction to this is to spend a considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord. So we can talk a little bit about opposition. I don't know if you've ever been in a position where you feel like people were just, you know, inherently against you or the like, default posture was like anti-whatever you are trying to do doesn't necessarily have to be a spiritual situation, or that literally, somebody's mind had been poisoned. Such a wow, poisoned against you like they had heard something maybe true, maybe false, but just like you walk in the room and you realize, wow, I have a huge hurdle to get over to Yeah, like connect with this person?

Kyle Groters  05:07

Yeah, it's been interesting even coming back more fully into the ECRC community, having gone to some educational institutes that aren't necessarily reformed. And I don't feel an opposition in that way at all. But I do sometimes get some questions that are super interesting. Why not reformed seminary? Why go to Moody Bible Institute for one or go to Trinity for seminary? Because they're certainly not strictly reformed. And I've been able to engage with a lot of different thinking different thoughts but also coming from a Reformed Church. I have had some people at those places say, oh, you're reformed, Oh, interesting, is a preconceived notion already there and the conversation before we even get going? I think it's interesting, Gregg, you said that the Jewish communities are getting smaller and smaller as they begin to French are further and further out. yet, at the same time, it seems like the opposition that these smaller and smaller communities are able to incite is even greater. These folks are very convincing. And they're able to do this very effectively.

Gregg DeMey  06:09

Yeah, it kind of feels like they're getting like to draw an American analogy, like deeper into the Wild West. Yeah. So like, more violent and extreme things start happening out. My mind just got cast back to a few high school golf team experiences. So not to get too sporty here. But there was a couple times where our team would show up. And it was very clear that like our competition for the day had made up their minds to absolutely hate us. Maybe because we were from Grand Rapids, or maybe because we're from a Christian school. But just thinking back to myself are my high school golf coach did a really good job of helping us with our self-talk, because it's so easy when you see like seven people staring you down with loading in their eyes, just to be like, I'm going to give it back to you even more. And especially as a teenager, that would have been my instinctive reaction, or like, I got to play so good. Today, we're going to bear you guys like if golfers could talk that way. Right. But our, my golf coach, a really amazing Christian guy was also our high school band director. That's strange, double duty or not. But, he sat us down early in there and was like, Hey, this is going to happen at some point. And when it did, he's like, here's what you try to do. Just be respectful. And then try over the course of your four-hour walk with this person who is inclined to hate you to just see if you can find something in common with them, or something to be like, slightly friendly with them over. And he didn't, he didn't say like that will disarm them. Or he won't say that will totally diffuse their nonsense, it will make them feel even worse about themselves. And it will end up harming their own golf game because they'll have all this built-up rage that has no target or outlet any longer. But all of those things happened. It's kind of like the killing with kindness thing, right? That's,

Kyle Olson  08:13

that's the best? Yeah, I mean, I just talking about the opposition. My enneagram number, which I think both of you guys are familiar with. Mine is a nine, which is kind of a peacemaker type of person that doesn't lean into conflict, yet, not runs away, but just sort of accepts, like, okay, so I often find if I'm in the middle of a conversation with somebody who's expressing strong opinions. I don't express my opinion, initially. And maybe often they leave the table thinking I've agreed with everything that they've said. When I first came to this church, I found myself in extreme opposition, with most of the congregation being kind of more internal, introverted, even though part of me is an introverted but republican and conservative people. And I was raised

Gregg DeMey  09:18

in the Twin Cities in Minnesota cities of Minnesota, that bastion of Republicanism Well, yeah, I

Kyle Olson  09:24

mean, we did. We were the only state that voted for Mondale so that that was part of my upbringing, and I was

Gregg DeMey  09:31

I was at Walter Mondale in 1988 for young people like me. So was that 88 or was it 80? No, no, it was a second time Reagan right was elected maybe it was 87. Yeah, but Walter Mondale one, one state, Minnesota.

Kyle Olson  09:55

So maybe because of some of all of that I In the face of opposition, have learned to stick around and learn more and stay the course. And not that I'm necessarily right. And that maybe I have some things to learn, as has been one of the things that I've sort of taken that as so. And maybe that's with Paul and Barnabas as well. It's like, wow, we not only need to like, pre charter, but like we probably have some things to learn, as well. So

Gregg DeMey  10:31

yeah, no, that was I think it's a credit to both the hospitality of the church. And to you that all these years later, I'm still here. Exactly. Yeah.

Kyle Olson  10:41

Yeah, it's been 30 years now. I based No, no, 25 years, 25 years, at this point. So

Gregg DeMey  10:48

yep. So that's a pretty good long run. So definitely, there's a difference between like the kind of opposition you might experience with like a sports team, or, I mean, just as a musician to play some different instruments. Like, it's interesting, like, the piano is kind of neutral, like, nobody gets offended by the piano. But if like someone's first experience with me is like, I'm playing the guitar. Like, when I was younger, like that could maybe set up some resistance. Or if I'm playing the pipe organ, the same thing, like if someone comes to the church comes to ECRC, the first time and I happen to be playing the pipe organ, then, like, there may be some things that go along with that perception for sure, right. So those are not like deep-level opposition, though, those are more like surface-level things that are pretty easy to get passed. And I would say like, even as a piano player, like, sometimes it will be opposed by other band members, or people who are like, you just play the piano too loud. Like, can you just not do that? And that's fair. And that doesn't feel like uncomfortable opposition to me. Right. And sometimes, I mean, Kyle Olson is a drummer, sometimes just the piano player needs to dial it back a little bit. Sometimes the drummer needs to dial it up a little bit up, yeah, we just can't hear the drums enough. But a deeper thing would be like if someone would come to the criticism with criticism of you seem like you're doing this whole music leading thing just for yourself. And I'm struggling to like, connect to God and worship, you know, as a result of what you're doing musically. Like, that's a whole different level, right? Because the criticism is saying, like, hey, maybe your motivation for doing this is just because you'd like the spotlight. Rather than that you have a calling to help a congregation or a gathering, like sing and worship together to God. So that like the few times like that I've heard that like, that hits me on a whole different level and calls forth like a much stronger conversation and self-reflection time and kind of feedback loop too, to work through that.

Kyle Olson  13:03

Yeah. And having read through some of these passages, especially sort of hearing, Paul preaches a little bit and kind of go through the history of the Jewish people. It's, I mean, you know, the, they're, they're coming into this opposition. And for me, not being quite the theologian's study that you guys are, it's like, Are our people just upset that they're calling? I mean, is it basically that they're calling Jesus the Christ? Or is it like, Is that what it is? That's what's the growing thing is like, there's no way this is wrong. You're going against scripture, even though they're using scripture to show why Jesus is.

Kyle Groters  13:45

The opposition here in this text makes me think of a phrase that's used a lot these days, especially among younger folks, which is, you woke up this morning and chose violence. I gotta know if you guys have heard this, but it kind of gets thrown around. But the Jewish people and the extremists really in this text, or like, that's what they strike me as they woke up in the morning like today, we're going to go out and get Paul and Barnabas. And, Kyle, to your question. I think it's partially that but also there's a fairly significant political and economic societal reason that the Jews are pushing against the work of Paul and Barnabas because there's a certain degree to which they're fairly concerned that their place within the Roman Empire and they place general security, relatively speaking, it's going to be threatened by what they see as an extremist movement, right? These Christians run around doing crazy stuff. So there's probably some self-safety going on there. But then also, we'll get there a little bit later, but there's a mob mentality movement almost within the Jewish diaspora within the small groups are bleeding out.

Gregg DeMey  14:49

Yeah, we're gonna get there. Yeah, so one thing that's sociologically true is like when you have an organization or movement with a geographical center like drew Islam would be the center of Judaism, the further you get away from that geographical center, most often the community will get actually more conservative. And just because they're more out on their own, they don't benefit from the mix and close ties. So like I had this experience in California moved out there. I mean, more than 20 years ago, and my thought was like, wow, California is the land of Democrats. Right. And what I discovered is that of the CRC churches out there, probably 80 plus percent of them are way more conservative than the Christian Reformed churches in West Michigan that I was familiar with. Really, yeah, again, because there's a critical mass of them in West Michigan. And when you get that geographically far afield, you don't get like the latest updates and the impulses like, No, we must stay true and keep things exactly as they are. So that was a very big surprise to me. The other maybe 20-15% of churches, kind of went a little bit in the other direction of like, no, we're very glad for our connection. But here we are on the other coast of the country. So we're going to like leverage the creativity and freedom that comes along with the geographical distance. So I think we see that in some of these Jewish communities that the further afield that they are from Jerusalem is like the more sort stringent and frozen and legalistic, I'm also that they get offended on a deeper level than the Jews who are closer to Jerusalem. Crazy. Yeah, I don't know if that principle holds, like in all things, I'd be. I'd be curious to do a little examination of that. 

Kyle Groters  16:42

I'm thinking about an analogy. 

Kyle Olson  16:44

Yeah. How opinions change moving further out.

Kyle Groters  16:47

I'm reviewing church history very quickly, in my mind, trying to think through how that works. And where that makes sense. But I think largely, does, as on principle, make a lot of sense.

Gregg DeMey  17:01

Yeah, so I think it's again, like a sociological reality that would be driving that, like if you take Americans out of America. And, you know, so like expats in other countries. Like, my guess is like, it's harder to keep up on all the cultural and societal changes. So part of it is just you end up maybe a little bit, like frozen in time from the time you left. But also like, especially if you're not going to become a citizen, or long term resident of whatever country you're in for a number of years. It's like probably your impulses. Like, I love the place that where I'm from, and I'm going to be true to that. Right. This is why when I've done their mission trips, people really want to go to Burger King, even in Eastern Europe. And I like I don't have that gene, whatever that is. But again, I would say like 80% of the people that I traveled with, like, anytime we would get to anything that like smacked of North America. And the time that I was out in Eastern Europe, they were just like, we got to get there. Take me to McDonald's. I was like, I

Kyle Olson  18:09

mean, I do remember having a McDonald's, I have a great experience on a couple of trips, finding a McDonald's in the middle of wherever we were, I think one was in the Czech Republic. And I think at that point, we were tired. And it was like, we just wanted something that we knew what we were getting.

Gregg DeMey  18:28

Yeah, exactly. One familiar thing. Yes. In the oasis of newness.

Kyle Olson  18:33

Did we ever seek it out again? No, but it was a lovely, beautiful moment of familiarity, but, but that's probably part of it as well. It's like you're clinging a little bit.

Gregg DeMey  18:44

It's great. It's like the American Embassy in the Czech Republic. Yeah, yeah. McDonald's. Oh, yeah. Alright, let's press forward into acts 14, eight through 20. This is when things get a little real and rough.

Kyle Olson  19:02

In Lystra, there sat a man who was lame. He had been that way from birth and had never walked. He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed, and called out, stand up on your feet. At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.

Gregg DeMey  19:21

So yeah, wow. This keeps happening time and time in the book of Acts that like with the prompting of the Holy Spirit, and like Paul seems to have like eyes to see this not like Paul is making it happen, but as like a very keen spiritual antenna to know like when these moments are, so when the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the like Kuhnian language, the local kind of Greek dialect, the gods have come down to us in human form. Sort of can't blame this. Barnabas, they called Zeus and Paul they called Hermes Because he was the chief speaker, and the priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside that city brought bowls and wreaths to the city gates because he in the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

Kyle Groters  20:14

But when the apostles and Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd shouting, friends, why are you doing this? We are only human like you. We are bringing you good news telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. In the past, he that all nations go their own way. And he has not left himself without testimony. He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons. He provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy. Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

Gregg DeMey  20:53

But then, some Jews came from Antioch and I conium and one the crowd over. So they stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city thinking that he was dead. But after the disciples had gathered around him, he got up, went back into the city. And then the next day he and Barnabas left for Derby. So this is quite a day in life. Right, right here some extreme starting with a supernatural miracle, where a layman jumps up on his feet prompted by the Holy Spirit, a massive positive crowd reaction at first or I mean, it's an enthusiastic reaction for sure. Right, so they think Paul and Barnabas are gods. So maybe just a quick, quick detour into some Greek mythology, and feel free to chime in. But Zeus would be the chief Olympian God. One of the things I mean, all the Greek gods have kind of fatal flaws or very human, or horrible tendencies. I mean, one of the things Zeus does is has children by a million different, yes. Goddess says women nymphs, and one of his children is Hermes, who is like the messenger Gods if you can picture him. He's the gods sometimes pictured with like wings on his hat and wings on his ankles, their ankles. Yeah, right. So he's called mercury in. Yeah, and Latin. And just thinking back, was it FTD floral. One of them, their logo had maybe like the winged foot 

Kyle Olson  22:41

a little wing? Yeah, yep.

Gregg DeMey  22:42

 Yeah. So as the messenger, right, so Zeus was large and in charge, Hermes was his son, but Swift is the wind and silver tongue so often, like bore the messages of the Olympian, right? So kinda helps get a picture of Paul and Barnabas, I think like, right, maybe Barnabas is this great guy, maybe he's a little bigger. So there's some kind of like church history, nuggets that maybe imply that Paul was sort of like short, bald and awkward, not nothing against any of those qualities, but he probably is doing most of the speaking. So they're like, wow, this big guy is Zeus, and this guy is talking like crazy. Is Hermes in reaction to this? And then it's hard for us to imagine that there's like, you know, a temple just outside the city where they performed ritual sacrifices to actual Greek gods, it seems like that would have happened, like in prehistoric times, but no, this was part of the world where Christianity was born into.

Kyle Groters  23:46

Yeah, I, what strikes me as so interesting about this priest and his actions here is that the priest of Zeus in this temple clearly doesn't really know his God at all. Because he's just like, oh, getting random. Oh, yeah, you definitely that's it. You

Gregg DeMey  24:02

could be the guy you could you can be it right,

Kyle Groters  24:04

which I don't know, I just don't find striking, especially in comparison to the message that Paul and Barnabas are preaching, right? It's so radically different from what is common, which is, the gods could show up anytime we'd never know, who knows what they're up to. They're up to whatever they want to be, You're the God now great, that works for me. Right? Right. It's so capricious, it's like it's unknowable, right? Whereas Paul's coming and Barnabas are coming in, they're preaching a gospel of a God who has known Personally, I mean, it's, it's, I can imagine the words themselves being, you know, something that's getting people stirred up pretty significantly because it is so different in the pre-sales was that

Kyle Olson  24:44

right? And, you know, I mean, it's a little bit of the crowd mentality, of course, but with maybe this priest is like, what's happening like, Oh, yeah, that seems like totally, I'm going to bring some animals down and, and let's do this. So

Gregg DeMey  25:01

Yeah, so Pastor Jeff mentioned, a Roman writer-poet named Ovid. Yesterday, this is gonna get super nerdy for a second one of its two big works is called the metamorphosis. I actually had translated the metamorphosis in a college class. So feel sorry for me there. But in the metamorphosis tells a story about Zeus and Hermes, coming in human form, to Earth together, and in one of the scenes where Zeus comes, he gets super mad at the people who live in this region of the Roman Empire. Okay, right. So, I don't know how famous that work would have been to these people. But I mean, it was written about zero ads. And now we're, you know, maybe 40 years later. But like, it could be that that story was not like just made up by Ovid, but like, you know, channeled through him into like part of this, this work. So there's a little bit of precedent that they're not just like making this up out of thin air, but like this, quite likely was, as part of their history or a story of like, let's not make Zeus mad again, because like it went really poorly when we didn't recognize him and yanked his chain. So there may be a predisposition to seeing this. I also like to think that maybe Barnabas looks like The Rock or something. Like maybe he's just like, hugely, like, oh, my goodness, look at this guy must be a god. Right?

Kyle Olson  26:37

I mean, you talk about deification. I mean, what we do that with all of our celebrities and musicians and writers and, and all that sort of thing. Like, surely this person must be a god or a descendant or they're receiving some magical. So it's interesting to kind of take that modernizes it a little bit. And it's like, I can see how we can all get caught up and like, Man, this person is really just driving at home and speaking. Yeah.

Gregg DeMey  27:10

Yeah, so this whole scene totally flips over. It must be that, that the movement, the Christian movement, the way is catching fire like there must be some palpable momentum because opposition from other cities is like following on the heels of pardon, Paul and Barnabas. So the opposition isn't 100%. Local here, but outsiders are coming in worried that the momentum is growing, and somehow take the extraordinary enthusiasm of this crowd and turn it 180 degrees. So somehow, in the same day, they go from wanting to worship and sacrifice and adore these guys, to trying to murder them in cold blood. Sounds like a day on Twitter. That's fantastic. So have you ever had this experience where you've been part of a crowd, or been around a mob, or witnessed something where the scrip totally flipped? or been part of a band where everybody was like loving it, and then you play the wrong song and people start throwing things at your head? 

Kyle Olson  28:24

For sure.

Kyle Olson  28:26

Well, not necessarily the throwing things, but just everybody just loses interest. You've got this amazing connection happening. And then just like that, things can turn. Yeah.

Gregg DeMey  28:41

Yeah, so I'm thinking of sports again. You know, like the Cubs sold off a whole bunch of their players are traded off and have a bias. Former cubs shortstop now plays for the New York Mets. I don't think he's been hitting particular Well, this season. And I mean, New York fans are famously vocal and tolerant for poor performance. And they've started they started booing him, like loudly and ritually and heavy buyers a few days ago, like stepped away from the plate, put both his hands up and gave a thumbs down, like fatter thumbs down at the New Yorkers. Not great. So there's a situation where like, you're really great baseball player, the whole city wants to love you. They're waiting for you to like, do something. And within two weeks, they're booing you to the tune of like 80,000 people gathered all together. Like that's amazing. 

Kyle Olson  29:42

Just because you're wearing a different shirt. goes back to the Seinfeld about

Gregg DeMey  29:48

 Yeah. So yes, I think of the world frequently in terms of energy. So it seems weird that you could go from such positive enthusiasm To such murderous negativity, but both experiences involve externally strong emotions and energy. And if I describe it that way, it's not like you have to do is like rechannel all the energy, it's not like you need to subtract all the positive energy and then build a whole bunch of negative energy, just need to find a little detour for it. And these folks who come from the outside who already had become adept at poisoning the minds of the folks at a conium, like, are able to do that in this next city as well.

Kyle Olson  30:35

Right? And anger is, like you said, energy that almost can just gain more steam on its own. probably easier than happiness, or joy. I mean, certainly both opposite sides of the coin, but like you can, but that energy is easier to stoke. I feel like the air.

Kyle Groters  31:00

And I think the history that, Gregg that you gave just about the fact that there may have been some fear potentially or some just wanting to make sure they don't mess this up. And even if that for not sure if that there's probably is still some legitimate fear, like these people are doing some crazy stuff. And it's not being on the bad side, right. And fear specifically, I think can be very quickly turned in channel into anger, right? It's not as though they were having this joyous experience of fellowship with these guys. There was some sort of they are here we are separate from them. And I feel like that particularly that sort of energy can be turned very quickly and channeled into more negative, violent. Yeah.

Gregg DeMey  31:39

And for sure, probably, there's some disappointment in here. Like if you started like, wow, the gods have come to visit us again. And then you realize, like, oh, they're a bunch of schmoes like us, then you had all that energy and realize they're just guys, and maybe they're white male intentioned guys like, Yeah, super easy. Like, anger has a powerful gravity to it. Right, in terms of emotional power. Yeah.

Kyle Olson  32:08

And, you know, I referenced the Twitter thing, but like the that energy and that ability for that, it all just starts to stoke each other. And, yeah, we certainly have cancel culture, that's the new term for all of that. And, and some of that is tried

Gregg DeMey  32:27

to cancel Paul and Barnabas. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting, the message that Paul delivers them. Yeah. So there's no mention of Jesus, there's no mention of a Messiah. There's no quoting of the Old Testament. Again, being further from Jerusalem like, like, likely This is Greek myth believing Gentiles at this point. So I think Paul, like very wisely, and astutely, and he's probably crossing a language barrier to I mean, this parrot passage refers a couple of times to the Macedonian dialect. And I mean, Paul, for sure spoke Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek, and NaVi had some Latin, but like now, or you know, probably someplace that has their own different dialects. So like, that's also a hurdle. But Paul pretty much just tries to point them away from Zeus, and to the one true God, who made the heavens of the earth and gave his image to every human being. So it's kind of a fascinating thing.

Kyle Groters  33:38

I think he's trying to get them in the midst of high emotion and high energy, he's trying to get to the bare minimum threshold of understanding that the audience is likely to grab right? They're probably not going to be able to grab quick, quickly got his father or God incarnate got a son, but God as creator. Sure. Same page there. Because in the Greek mythos, there's creation happening, right? So at least there, there's some common ground that said, Listen, you understand God's create. So let me point you to the actual creation narrative, the one who truly creates and who provides and, you know, significantly, he provides you the plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy. Whereas with the Greek gods quite regularly, they are not acting to fill the hearts of their people with joy or to fill their bellies. Oftentimes, they're doing the opposite because they're angry or frustrated.

Kyle Olson  34:27

Yeah. And he's preaching against they're already pretty set ways and thoughts and things that they've learned and things that have been confirmed. I mean, that's, I think that's part of that too, is that you're, and maybe, maybe that's the thing about moving further away out of, you know, in more rural settings or whatever that like, some of these ideas don't get challenged enough. And so then they just become part and more confirmed in the way that you've been living here is like, well, this is, see this is the way it must work. This is the way and then coming in, that's got to already just Stoke those flames a little bit, then you got other, the other crowds coming in other people that are traveling the traveling opposition to make it, even more, add to the chaos. So yeah.

Gregg DeMey  35:26

So interestingly again, I'm just picking this up on my phone, I had a distant memory, the very beginning of its metamorphosis. He offers a short prayer to like the Greek gods in general. And then the first thing at the beginning of the metamorphosis is that Abba describes a nameless creator who separates Earth from heaven sea from land, who then made beings to inhabit these spaces. And it was this God who filled the heavens, fish of the sea beasts of the land, birds of the air, and human beings were created to steward and rule this world. Sounds familiar? Sounds like that guy was reading some old testament at some point. Well, and like like I'm saying, Paul is like, there's obviously a lot of resonance between what the message that Paul drops on them, right. And what's been sent over to the Christian does at the beginning of this right work. Yeah, so oftentimes, I feel like we're trying to build up our own reputation. It's awesome that Paul and Barnabas here are doing exactly the opposite. Pretty much their message is like, no Gods God, we are only human. Like I'm hearing their clothes, idiot. Like, I love it. Like just Guys, guys. It's not it's Yeah, it's, it's great. So the other amazing thing I mean, at the tail end of this, you know, after the tide turns, the stones get thrown, oh, my call is left for dead at that, like, what did he look like? That they thought he was dead? And then, I mean, the Bible says after the disciples gathered around him, he got up went back into the city. So as maybe as predating your time with pop music, Kyle groaners, but whenever I read this line in Acts chapter 14, there's a song by the British band shut Chumbawamba that comes screaming into my head. I'm sorry. Which goes like this. I get knocked down, and I get up again, nothing gonna nag me down. Like that is a great apostle theme song. At least that line the rest of the not so much. Oh, Danny Boy as well in that Oh, Danny boy does get mentioned. And so Paul definitely knocked down Kayode seemingly match over down for the count. And somehow I ended up this is like resurrection or? Yeah, well, I

Kyle Olson  38:04

don't it doesn't say they prayed over him or anything like that. They're just like, I just imagine them all just kind of looking like Oh, man. What are we going to do? And then all of a sudden, he opens his eyes or whatever, shakes the dust off, I guess, goes back into the city. But then like, he leaves the next day. So what did he like? What was that night?

Kyle Olson  38:26

Like? What did he do?

Kyle Olson  38:28

Did he just gather his thoughts like, Oh, yeah, I forgot my toothbrush? And I should probably, yeah,

Gregg DeMey  38:34

yeah. Well, so yeah. What do you do when you encounter a profound defeat? Right? Dead. Like,

Kyle Groters  38:46

he went in, had a drink, take a nap. And then he left the town.

Gregg DeMey  38:52

I'm hoping he had a long healing sleep that night. But I'm guessing they had a conversation of like, like, okay, there's this mountain of resistance here. Do we push through it? Right as God? I'm guessing there's some serious prayer and discernment that goes on here. Or like, is this a sign we're supposed to, like, head to the next town over at this point?

Kyle Olson  39:11

Yeah, have we? We've done all that we can do here. Again, just for their experience, up until this point, I mean, they've been rocking it across like the whole country and, or whole, you know, all sorts of lands all different places. And you've accepted defeat or like, or just yeah, that's, that's crazy.

Gregg DeMey  39:38

Well, I think Jesus had prepared them for this, though. I mean, just the idea, like, the call is to share the good news. Some people are going to receive it. And some people are going to give you nonstop trouble. And when that happens, shake the dust off your feet and move on. Yeah. I mean, all the parables that Jesus tells of You know, it's like a fisherman who has a net, and you bring in the catch, and you separate the good fish from the bad fish. It's like the sheep and the goats. It's. So Jesus had no problem kind of with. Like, there are two kinds of people, some, when they hear the gospel is like the best thing they've ever heard. And for other people, it creates hatred. Right? Yeah. Time to pack up. Yeah. So we live in weird times, though, where the gospel is more just like, it doesn't create those polar reactions, I think for a lot of North Americans is just kind of like, yeah, I think, okay, Jesus stuff.

Kyle Groters  40:43

I think I think that still does depend on the way it's presented. And I mean, there's certainly a way to speak of the gospel on what Jesus Christ is inviting us into. That's quite radical and fairly offensive to the general concerns of day to day life of the average North American, even just when it comes from control and power over one's own schedule, and what I want in the way I want things to go, I think that the gospel presented oftentimes is not particularly offensive. But I think when it's done, well, somebody is probably going to be offended. Because it's a pretty offensive claim to speak of Jesus Christ as Lord over all life and what that actually means, and also what that actually benefits and the invitation that's there, but it's, it's still pretty significant. I wonder if the reason it's not as offensive is because it's not being proclaimed? as well, as perhaps it was? Or historically has been?

Gregg DeMey  41:41

Yeah, quite possibly. So there are dimensions of the gospel just because every culture has its particularly sinful and anti-God spots. So I mean, like, I would say, in modern America, as one of the, one of the offensive things that you can get is like, the like, the gospel has implications for, like, every dimension of my life, for how I speak, like, but to say, like, the gospel has implications for your sex life, right? Like, that's offensive? Like, who? Who are you gonna tell me like, right? And then what does that mean? Like? That's a fair conversation. Yeah, right. But just the general observation that the gospel has implications for all of life. And one dimension of being an adult human being is being a sexual person. So the gospel has implications for that.

Kyle Groters  42:33

Yeah. Yeah. And that's precisely right. And there's definitely a time in which you are speaking about that explicitly. And there's also a time when you're not in the Gospel presentation, but that's exactly what I'm getting at. Right, that level of lordship that Christ invites us into, for him to have of our lives. I mean, that's, that's downright offensive. Yeah. And the best possible way? I would say, but it is.

Kyle Olson  42:56

Sure. And, I mean, I would, how should I say this? I think part of that conversation, I mean, if we want to talk specifically about whatever the God is the Lord over my sexual life, when you present that to people, and people are offended, I think it's not the Yeah. It shouldn't be the first way that God starts ruling over my life.

Gregg DeMey  43:31

Like, if it's,

Gregg DeMey  43:32

if it's not the Christian life, it's not

Kyle Olson  43:37

like, and that's, I feel like that's it's like leaping, whatever jumping the shark, I don't know, or whatever it is, like, yeah, you're, you're stepping over a whole bunch of things, where it's going to take the general person, given all of the modern conveniences, all of the modern gods that we worship, and serve, unknowingly, and somewhat very knowingly. Yeah, when you start to enter some of those things, and then the other thing that I feel like, probably is, is more offensive when you consider Christianity in me, you know, people's view of Christianity is that Christians are very doing non-Christian things very, they're doing very offensive things. And so that's actually saying more things.

Gregg DeMey  44:27

So you mean offensive for the wrong stuff, right. And

Kyle Olson  44:30

yes, they are doing awful friends. And that is, I feel like people's when they're offended by the church, that it's coming from a sense of pain and suffering under the hands of the, you know, somewhat sort of someone pretending to be the church, right.

Gregg DeMey  44:51

So yeah, it's a total gospel tragedy that in recent decades, we Christians are known far more for what we are against than what we are for Yeah. So I was just talking to senior saint a couple of days ago and kind of having this same conversation in a way and they were pointing out I just how like nobody was against Mother Teresa. Sure, I mean for sure when she was alive. She has a few detractors now that she's been gone for a decade. But well, her private journals and prayers were published post mortem for her. And anyway, that's a whole nother thing. Anyway, but Mother Teresa generally has this glowing reputation. And as Christians like people from I think virtually every denomination that just Roman Catholics are like, she is a beautiful example of what it can be what it can look like to follow Jesus. Right. But she had some extraordinarily offensive stances and political opinions. But because her calling card was like, I will sacrifice everything to serve the least of these. I will help children I will touch the untouchables. I will connect with people that no one else loves, and show them as much love as I can. When people donate shoes. Mother Teresa would give out all the shoes and save the worst ones for herself. And there's like stories about how just like mangled her feet were after 50 years of just wearing the worst pair of shoes in India. Wow. Like, yeah, so like, awesome. But here, there but if you ask her about unborn life, she'll tell you, I mean, she would, is on record a million times over of like abortion being the modern tragedy and just urging everybody like, just send me your child, I will figure out a way to care for them. I will find people to care for them. Just we need to love life because God gives life. So somehow, like now that she gets away with that, right? But because she is so for serving and sacrifice and caring for the least of these, like she can say those things because no one perceives her to be or perceived her to be trying to stake out a patch of political territory, right? Or, you know, she's a celibate impoverished nun. She's not like accumulating power, right? Like in the worldly sense. Like she has no game to play other than just wanting to do what she's saying.

Kyle Groters  47:22

We I would describe her as holistically pro-life in that way. Right? It was not. Her stance there had very little to do with any sort of political or, I mean, even involved in polemics or argumentation was more just clearly by the way she lived. She was pro-life all

Gregg DeMey  47:42

of life pro-leper, poor-beggar right, precisely for an unborn child. For touchable.

Kyle Groters  47:48

Yeah, right. Right. And so in a unique and beautiful way, I think that stance is actually given credence because it says, Okay, well, you actually, you are quite literally walking that talk. And the most fundamental way, which in that particular debate as it rages here, and elsewhere, oftentimes, charges you may be pro-life in the issue of abortion, but are you actually involved in any sort of pro-life movement? for other people? are different folks, right?

Kyle Olson  48:17

We're here for the death sentence or your Yeah, there are all sorts of dichotomies, right?

Gregg DeMey  48:26

So sometimes people forget about Mother Teresa. She is actually a native Albanian, which I think goes by North Macedonia these days. But same part of the world that Paul and Barnabas are not so far away, it's here and just that she went to India, like in her adult life, and we had to acquire a new language. And I don't know, to me, that's amazing. Like when someone is like, as expressive and kind and loving and plugged into a culture that is their second culture like that. That's a whole nother. Yeah, I mean, miracle and act of

Kyle Olson  49:03

love, like emptied herself, and continue to do that for the rest of her life. That's amazing.

Gregg DeMey  49:09

Yeah. All right. Well, speaking of amazing folks, let's take Acts 14 to the end here.

Kyle Olson  49:18

All right. They preach the gospel in that city and won a large number of disciples. Then they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God. They said Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord in whom they had put their trust after going through picea they came into Pim philea. And when they had preached the word in Perga, they went down to

Kyle Olson  49:55

a Talia. Awesome

Kyle Groters  49:59

is From Italia, they sail back to Antioch, where they had been committed to the grace of God for the work they had now completed. On arriving there, they gathered the church together and reported all that God had done through them and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles. And they stayed there a long time with the disciples.

Gregg DeMey  50:19

Okay, so we get quite a bit of geography and quite a few local place names here. But what's going on is Luke, the writer of Acts is giving us a lens into the ongoing work of the gospel. So Paul and Barnabas are retracing their steps. So going in reverse and checking in with all those who had become converts and the emerging kind of little Christian communities there. So this is really significant because it's not just like Paul and Barnabas were doing a series of drive-bys. And then crossing their fingers and hoping that what they started took, you know, like dropping in doing a rock show getting everybody like riled up. All right, so right.

Kyle Olson  51:01

Yeah, no, they came back. And that's, that's been an important thing. I mean, I feel like when we visit, Angola, prison, that's one of the big things that they know that we love them is that we come back. Right?

Gregg DeMey  51:18

That is the exact turn of phrase how do we how do you know we love you? Keep coming back. Right. Yeah, so. Yeah, I mean, right. Modern evangelists sometimes do this tour of cities. And so no, knock on Billy Graham, but there was an organization that had to come in his wake and be like, Okay, what do we, how do we help serve? How do we help disciple? How do we help grow up, like people who might come forward at a Billy Graham Crusade, because the crusade is great? But if there's no pastoring, if there's no nurturing, if there's no follow-up, like that much may come of it, eventually. So interesting to me, like we get a little bit of the message that they try to strengthen and encourage these early Christians with verse 22, we must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God. That's the beginning of the health and wealth gospel right there. Come on, you guys love Jesus. So it's all Easy Street and riches from here on out.

Kyle Olson  52:32

Just gotta love Jesus. And so much, many hardships come.

Gregg DeMey  52:39

So yeah, the vision is following Jesus is not going to be easy. I mean, this probably is not hard to believe from a guy who just got stoned outside your city.

Kyle Olson  52:51

I can imagine him holding the rock while he's one of the stones while he's not gonna go through rock many hardships.

Gregg DeMey  53:00

So I think there's probably some of us as American Christians who could stand to be reminded of that message on a regular basis, or re-envision whatever the hardship of living through a pandemic, the loneliness, the dislocation, that some of us feel just the disagreements that are all around us these days. Like, it's not like God is opposed to a post to those things like he wants to use it and recycle it into actually getting us deeper into the kingdom of God. That's how it happens through hardships.

Kyle Groters  53:34

Now, it's all throughout the biblical texts, right? That through hardship, and through perseverance, in Christ in the midst of hardship, we are purified, where we find were made more like Him, we grow closer to God, we go closer to each other. I mean, it's pretty hard to miss, but at the same time, practically speaking, it's pretty easy to miss it in the actual day-to-day of our lives. Right. I would certainly say we're comfortable, right?

Gregg DeMey  54:02

Yeah. I mean, I think the same thing is true about marriage. friendships. I mean, the way you get really deep with people is not by everything always being 100%. When?

Kyle Olson  54:15

Yep, yeah. Yeah, my, my dad just lost a really good friend of his, from grade school. And they, he wasn't, my dad was in town last weekend. And he just, I think he was, he's gonna speak he was speaking at his funeral memorial service and this last weekend, so he was kind of going through that friendship, and they had lots of ups and ups and downs. And my dad did not know for a while he couldn't, is his friend just sort of, like abandoned him like ghosted him in a way. And he came to find out a few years later after that, that he had actually been in prison. Yeah, I found out that he was in prison. And then my dad This is great, my dad bought him a subscription to Golf Digest and sent it to him at prison. Every month, you'd get a Golf Digest in prison.

Gregg DeMey  55:11

And that made him very popular on the inside

Kyle Olson  55:19

my putt. But anyways, it was just an interesting, they and, you know, that's one little thing but my dad was going through a rough time. In fact, that kind of was right before he divorced my mom, and was sort of looking to my friend to kind of counsel him and because he had gone through some similar things, and he was just gone. And so my dad was angry about that, and like, you know, come to find out that like, he eventually, you know, they, they got back and became friends and they still are lifelong friends and, and now he's gone. So it was a good story, to hear two guys that have gone through some hardships and some separation but still kept the workup of being across the country and still staying connected. So pretty cool.

Gregg DeMey  56:16

That's amazing. Yeah, I maintain is the people that you really love and care about that you can have the most real fights and arguments with just because, you know, there's enough trust there that you know, you're gonna come out on the other side, okay, eventually. So, you can say the difficult things. I think this would, to me, this is like, if you could refer if we could reframe hardship, as, like an expectation, and that something God wants to work with us with, like, had takes the stress and anxiety out of a lot of life, in a way like to expect it. And then to actually have like, the hopeful expectation, like, probably God is up to something with us. And sometimes we bring hardship on ourselves. But I mean, lots of times, it just comes on us because the world is a broken place or somebody else because of their own brokenness and flicked something or, you know, does something but I don't know, we could be in a permanent frame of mind to like be non-surprised. Yeah,

Kyle Groters  57:25

I think it's an expectation that at times, things will be difficult, but then a greater and deeper expectation that the Lord will always be faithful in his presence in the midst of that difficulty. And those two things together, make for a lot more smoothness, perhaps in dealing with those difficult things when they come. But you've got to have the underlying expectation and hope in what God has set and what he's promised for that to actually work at all.

Gregg DeMey  57:54

So the second thing that Paul and Barnabas do while retracing their steps is to appoint elders for all these emerging Christian communities. So there's a fancy word in the Greek language for elder dinar disorder. It's a press for us, or presbytery. Sometimes we say get the word Presbyterian from this, which means like elder or overseer, or some translations even go in the bishop route with this so Roman Catholics would kind of locate like the beginning of church structure by like appointing these like bishops or elders, in these early churches. So it's amazing to me Usually, I think of an elder of somebody who has been like walking with Jesus for decades, and, you know, probably slightly on the older side and not, you know, 18 or something. But like, all of these elders would have been like brand new Christians. Yeah. So so it's kind of like, hey, you're into this. Great, you got it? Well, it's got to be like, totally based on a doozy as him but like some spiritual giftedness. Sure, right, but more spiritual giftedness in this case than just length of time. Right. And, again, there were not seminaries at this point. This probably was not based on you know, educational degrees or even literacy, but more on spiritual characteristics, and, and gifts. And I think the church still is healthiest and best when, like, we're identifying those people that have this, like, these character qualities and whether you've been in the church for 40 years, or four years, or whether you're 2484. Like that, that's what being an elder is all about.

Kyle Olson  59:40

Yeah. And those characteristics are, yeah, like you said, not just you I really like the way that you pray, but it could be you steward money really well or your you know, you, you seem to have a great sense of people and connecting with people in a certain way. You know, there's, I feel like, you know these elders, again, just because the qualification was you have you've been, you've been a Christian for this long. I'd like to think that they identified, you know, certain aspects of these people that were like this is going to make the church successful. And this is going this, this is what God has gifted you with.

Gregg DeMey  1:00:23

So sometimes the argument is made that there are no female elders in the New Testament. So Greek is a gendered language. And most commonly, the word is used in the plural, pres butyl ROI, which would mean like elders, but it's masculine. But in the book of Titus, the word pres, future raw appears, which would be the feminine o of elder, every English translation that is ever seen translates that, however, as older women. So what's interesting, right, that I mean, for more than 600 years in the English language, we have not gone with a translation that reflects the spiritual quality of that word, but the age along with the possible age, quality of that word, whereas here, it's very clear that being a prince beautiful Ross, has everything to do with spiritual giftedness and character and not being leadership. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a podcast for another day. Isn't that an interesting wrinkle? Like the language itself has made that argument? Yes. So the last thing that they do is and put back in the church in Antioch, there's two Antiochs. So the original Antioch which is closer to Jerusalem that commissioned them and sends them forth on this missionary journey. So I think it's a beautiful picture that Paul and Barnabas aren't out there, just like Lone Ranger in it. But they know all along, like, We're going back to the people who love us who are praying for us, who fasted and prayed this whole thing through the Holy Spirit into existence. And, I mean, they go back there, I'm assuming they rest up, they give a report. There's, yeah, probably accountability and support and probably a little bit of challenge and probably a little surprise at like, what's happened when they get back? I mean, hopefully, policy is a doctor at some point.

Kyle Groters  1:02:33

Yeah, no, I absolutely love that we get so clearly they stayed there a long time that disciples, I feel as though Paul is oftentimes painted and not unfairly. So as like the premier Christian, like, missionary, certainly, but just do more of all of the things right. The dude gets all over the place. He's all around, he's goes through everything. He deals with everything. And it almost it can certainly come across off like he never stops. He doesn't like and you don't have to stop, just keep going always go go go go go right, and even speaks of himself sometimes in his letters as being like this way. But even you know, Paul and Barnabas, they spend time and they rest and they stop. And they're able to be recharged, re-energized to enter into truly meaningful fellowship before they go back out. Just having it's just a good reminder, even as we consider how do we emulate Paul in appropriate ways, as we're called into the Christian ministry, or lay ministry, whatever that looks like, and a part of that does have to be rest within fellowship and within community.

Gregg DeMey  1:03:39

Yeah, know for sure. Paul is a unique force of nature, right. But he's also humble enough to come back and report and receive guidance and even corrections have been a little later in the book of Acts. He kind of like lays out his work, like, Is this okay? Can you validate this? Yeah. So this is important for us as staff, people, I mean, we to think are at our best when we're getting things done, and kind of our forces of nature, for sure. But at the same time, we're not lone- rangering it like we're servants of this congregation, and also a staff people like it's not just us getting things done. I mean, the most important part of our ministry is empowering other people. Right? And that's exactly what Paul did. Like he didn't go a million times and stay for a year at each of these churches and make sure it was a Pauline church. But was strong enough to get things started and then also discerning enough to appoint elders and commissioned folks to do what he could not do. So let's do that. fellas. Let's be forces of nature but also humble enough to Report in and receive direction and get some rest as well. No, no rest. No. Okay, sorry. Shoot.

Kyle Groters  1:05:10

You don't get to rest in September, Kyle, come on.

Kyle Olson  1:05:14

Let's see Paul like going to the doctor or whatever. And then like, he kind of shakes his head, and some little gravel falls out of his ears or something like that. Like, oh, yeah, that was there.

Gregg DeMey  1:05:24

Yeah. So, hey, this Sunday, just something to look forward to. This will be our first service back indoors for a few months. It's been really great. worshiping outdoors, actually just several, several people who were greeters. Outdoors wrote up some stories, and there are just dozens and dozens of connections that happened outdoors, and just great things. 

Kyle Olson  1:05:49

Oh, man, 

Gregg DeMey  1:05:49

so I can't relate them all like here. Now, again, that might be a podcast for another day. I'm going to kind of create a compilation of these for our elders and SLT, and hopefully, some of those will make it into congregational life too. But Reverend Peter Semeyn will be preaching this Sunday. So we'll be great to hear Rev. And then on Sunday, September 12, things kind of officially get going in for so would love to see many of you face to face as we come back in the sanctuary for worship. Yeah, super excited. All right, Kyle, and Kyle. Yes. Was a little it was a little too much for me to barrels of Kyle but this is awesome. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Thanks to Billy Heschl who helped with the sound engineering today. Thank you, fellas, and thanks for Sheri Van Spronsen Leppink who always gets our communication out in the right channels. Peace, everybody. Peace, peace. out, I get knocked down and I get up again. Nothing gonna drag me down. I get down and I get up again.