90 - Rethinking Emotional Eating with Dr. Claudia Perolini

What if emotional eating wasn't just about filling a void, but also about nourishing your deepest emotions? Join us as we unravel this intriguing possibility with Dr. Claudia Perolini, a veteran therapist and an insightful voice on emotional eating. Claudia invites us into her journey of understanding emotional eating, a path marked by personal observations of friends' struggles with food and a profound comprehension of society's role in molding our relationship with food.

In this candid conversation, Claudia and Sabrina delve into the complexities of emotional eating. We discuss how it often serves as a coping mechanism, and yet, can become problematic if it's the only tool we rely on. Dr. Perolini underscores the importance of diversifying our coping strategies, fostering self-awareness, and nurturing self-compassion to effectively address emotional eating. If you've ever reached for the cookie jar during a tense moment, this conversation is a gentle nudge to introspect and discover alternative coping tools.

Take a deep dive with us into the transformative power of self-compassion and inner work in overcoming emotional eating. Claudia guides us to recognize the origins of our critical thoughts, encouraging us to sit with our emotions and expand our window of tolerance. With her empowering insights, she offers hope for those wrestling with emotional eating. As the conversation unfolds, we begin to see emotional eating in a fresh light - not as a vice to eliminate but as a signal to listen to. Join us for this enlightening chat and redefine your perception of emotional eating.


Connect with Dr. Claudia Perolini


www.claudiaperolini.com/quiz
Instagram @drclaudiaperolini

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:51

Claudia, welcome to the show. I'm going to have you take a few moments and just share with the listeners who you are, what you're doing, and then we'll start talking all about emotional eating.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Yeah, so thank you for having me, sabrina, I'm very happy to be here. So I am Dr Claudia Parallini In terms of my background and training. I have a PhD in counseling psychology and currently I have a private practice where I work mostly in the areas of anxiety, trauma and depression, and I can branch out the therapy room to also work as a coach, and in that area, I specialize in supporting women and helping them transcend their emotional eating. That I know it's the area, the focus of today's conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:37

What got you into emotional eating?

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:41

So I think I had experiences, since I engaged, that kind of piqued my interest about this area. So as I was reflecting on this, I was thinking, as early as you know I would take a middle school and having the experience of having you know friends for years, right, being with them for several years, and then at some point their struggle in the relationship with food thing started to be more visible because they started gaining weight. And I guess I want to kind of make sure that I say that not everyone who struggles with emotional eating gains weight. But in my experience some friends that I had at that age, so very early kind of that was their experience. So I could see kind of very closely how the judgment that they experienced, how other people started treating them differently. And I was kind of this mix of shocked because we've known this group of people, having known each other for years so kind of the shocked and the really intrigued about kind of how come it can change so drastically. I know how people are seen because this changes in weight that in my mind were somewhat related to a struggle in the relationship with food and it felt very isolating also for them. So that kind of picked my interest earlier on. Then, as the years went by, kind of more. When I was in high school then I had people very close to me like these kind of friends that are family somewhat, so I could see even more closely how detrimental it can be, how much so I'm speaking, more than 20 years ago, the approaches, right that they, their efforts to try to manage this were really kind of from the outside in, so really focusing on restriction and you know what to eat and what not to eat. I guess in this experience that I had, it really didn't work, so kind of seeing, right people that you really care about so much effort and really failing at what they wanted to accomplish. And again, the impact on going really beyond not only their physical body but really into their identity, right, feeling really disempowered, really kind of this feeling of how come I cannot conquer this, even if I'm kind of really working so hard. So I think they're really kind of touched me closely.

Speaker 2: 4:11

And then, against a year later now in my work as a therapist, I had the experience many times, say, working with someone in other areas, right, the areas that I work as a therapist, so mostly trauma, let's say, kind of people are coming to my mind or anxiety. So they came to see me for that and we can work on that and you know, over time, gradually, symptoms are kind of decreasing in severity and frequency and then they're really going to open up a space to work perhaps another areas that were not perhaps for them as pressing but still there. And then the struggle in the relationship with food really kind of came to the surface. So it was for me very interesting to see how now me as a therapist and that know them being my clients, how they kind of felt about this Very, very interesting kind of sometimes the feeling that they had that you know it's, it's only food, you know it cannot be that bad, while at the same time, right, they are sharing how much their life is really consumed, for some of them at least, with this.

Speaker 2: 5:13

You know the overwhelming feelings and not knowing other ways of coping, kind of this habit of relying on food, thoughts about food they get in the food, the feelings that come afterwards. So I guess in these different new stages of my life really been kind of closing away to this behavior, that really kind of kind of prompt me, compelled me to want to do more, more work in this area.

Speaker 1: 5:37

But sounds like this has kind of been almost a lifelong journey for you of recognizing at a fairly early age and there's lots going on in middle school of recognizing. Oh hey, I see some of these people really struggling with their relationship with food and then, as you continue to progress both through like adulthood and then into the counseling world, really seeing how much food is taking over some people's lives.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Yeah, exactly, and of course you know I am no stranger to the human experience of relying on food, so I guess I also want to share that. Perhaps I don't know if most of us, but a lot of us sometimes we have that feeling that we know had a hard day, or we're just feeling an overwhelming emotion of some kind and we, you know, the thought comes to our mind that what if I, you know, this something that I really like, and with the idea that that will give us some comfort. So certainly, personally as well, having had those experiences, and you know, given my, I think my background is that there is really kind of watching that and noticing that and being kind of interested and curious about about that process, so also seeing that in myself as well.

Speaker 1: 6:55

Because you and I are both big on emotional eating. I thought it would be really helpful if we talked about why so many people struggle with this.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Yeah, no, and I feel that's such a very how can I put this it can be very interesting and a question that, if we really take the time to think about it, I think there are many factors that in some way contribute to, you know, emotional eating being really kind of prevalent in our society. I think one thing is that really we all have a relationship with food. We're gonna have to have a relationship with food because, of course, we need food to survive. So I feel food it's, in this very special way, something that we need to have as a part of our lives to survive. But then in emotional eating, right, when we go kind of overboard, then it fulfills these needs. Of course we need that energy, but then it can become something that it's really kind of detrimental. So I think the fact that we all need to right, we all need to eat, then I feel food becomes in some way at least for some of us, it's kind of easy target right, it's a stretch of our hand and instead of eating you know, just to put an example in two or three cookies, then we might be unaware and we kind of ate the whole package and then we're gonna we look at the package, you know, empty, and then we then perhaps we realize or ask ourselves, kind of, what happened.

Speaker 2: 8:23

So the fact that, again, that we all have a relationship with food and we need to have it, the piece, that food is so accessible, right, if we're kind of, if we have the privilege, right, most of us have food in our homes and we cannot not have it, right, it's part of what we need to do and even if we're not preparing food for ourselves, you know so many of us, there might be parents who are thinking about what's for dinner, buying the food, cooking the food, preparing the food, putting the food on the table.

Speaker 2: 8:51

So we kind of need to, even if we don't want to be handling and thinking in some ways about food for our family, sometimes, even if we don't have kids, for our partner, or so I think food it's really really a part of our lives and I think in that way it becomes this kind of easy, easy target, not to speak about how, in general, right, how available now, food is right, it's not only in our homes. We go driving and in every corner we have, you know, one, two, sometimes three places that we will be able to buy food. Or sometimes right, we just call and the food will appear instantly in our you know in our doors.

Speaker 2: 9:33

So I think the fact that it's accessible it's available sometimes, unfortunately, right, the foods that are not the healthiest are the most inexpensive, so I think that in some way plays a role.

Speaker 2: 9:47

So there'll be some.

Speaker 2: 9:49

You know, some factors Then, right, the other factor that I know we've been speaking about is how the physiology right, that we know that our body reward us when we you know it's an evolutionary reason for this, but every time that we eat our body without getting very technical releases dopamine, that we know that it's a neurotransmitter that kind of makes us feel good.

Speaker 2: 10:15

So that's why sometimes, when I speak about this, I say in the moment, you know, it kind of partially works because we might feel some relief. You know this kind of extra comfort that we might be needing, so we might remember that and then next time that we might be overwhelmed by some emotion, it might be the memory that eating something in the moment it made us feel good. And sometimes I think it's hard to remember really the price that we pay if we engage in this very often, right? So I think that's also important to say that this is not problematic if once in a while, right away, engaging in this behavior. It's really when it becomes our kind of go-to coping mechanism that it can become really, really a challenge.

Speaker 1: 11:03

I completely agree with you, claudia. It's very multifaceted and we can't get away from food it's. I mean, it's there and we need it, otherwise we will not continue to be walking this planet, and I love that you touched on this piece of like. It becomes problematic when it becomes your go-to of, and that I mean. That's true for any of our coping tools that we use. If we are constantly reaching for the same thing over and over, it's going to create more problems in all areas of our life, whether that's some sort of drug or other substance or food, or you know, when I say this to my clients, they give me this really weird look. But like, if you are constantly just trying to breathe and meditate and that's your only coping tool that you're using, it's going to be problematic. You're either gonna start to hyperventilate or you're gonna become, you know, very quiet and solitude of meditating for hours every day that you're missing out on some of these other opportunities.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Yeah, and that's why we want to kind of expand and diversify the things that we do to kind of help ourselves, kind of regain a sense of balance and just kind of overall feel better.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Yeah, yeah and yeah, having that toolbox. I know this analogy gets played out over and over again, but it's so true. We wouldn't build a house or we wouldn't expect to build a house with just a hammer. If all the boards are already pre-cut, okay, a hammer might be okay and get you a decent way, but some things don't get stuck together with a hammer and sometimes we need other tools, and having those other tools in our emotional coping toolbox is really helpful.

Speaker 2: 12:56

Yeah, and now, along the lines of what you're speaking, sabrina, I think.

Speaker 2: 13:00

That's why I think there's really no substitute to this process of really kind of going inward and really trying to deepen our insight and again, kind of to use that word expand our awareness to really get the motivation, what is really going to bring us to feel that we need in that moment. Sometimes the feeling is that we need before to cope and of course the answers are different for all of us. So that's why I really think and this is easy to say but not to do, because sometimes in that moment when emotions run high, it's really sometimes impossible even in that moment to stop but this idea that if we struggle with this, I think in my experience it's so beneficial to, even if it's not in the moment right, even if it's later, even if it's in a day that we're not feeling, you know, strong, you know urge, to really reflect on what might be really underlying this desire, this kind of proneness to rely on for it. And then I think that's really a way that we can, you know, kind of somewhat gradually opening the window to okay, if this is a way of coping, if this is the way, perhaps, that I'm kind of trying to nourish myself emotionally. What are perhaps right over time, other ways that I can add to this so I don't need to only rely on for it?

Speaker 2: 14:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:27

Good point of bringing into all these other aspects and increasing our awareness, and you and I both know that that that increasing awareness starts with just observing, of getting becoming more aware. I think we also share this sentiment that being aware of your emotions, being aware of that emotional eating behavior without judgment, is key. Can you talk more about that from your perspective?

Speaker 2: 15:00

Yeah, and I actually kind of allow this area because so often and I think it's, you know, it's very human we press all the list to a certain extent. But in my work with clients, really, sometimes the first kind of emotion that they have, when they kind of start looking right, when they're trying to develop this almost like witness right, this observing piece in them about their behavior, it's really this feeling of being really kind of harsh, very kind of critical towards themselves, kind of this feeling again of kind of how come? I've been trying to kind of conquer this for years and I'm still, even though I have all missing my intention and my intentions, and I still kind of fall in for this. So I see very often how harsh we can be and how that really keeps us stuck. And I think there's a variety of reasons why, and I guess I'll get into a few of them.

Speaker 2: 15:56

I really think the invitation, if we can, is to, as you were saying, with this attitude of kind of non-judgment I know, at least get at least right. Sometimes we need to do this gradually, right? If we are very harsh, perhaps it's not from one day to the next that we can be non-judgmental towards ourselves, but over time, if we can really kind of have this sense of being curious about our behavior, our motivations, being open to see kind of what comes up, and if we could kind of lower somewhat that very harsh kind of critical part that some of us might have, and I think in some way, I think that is helpful in two ways. I think only right we really can look at this behavior more fully if we can somewhat leave the judgment to the side, because if I try to start understanding my patterns and my motivations and immediately I start feeling like horrible about myself and really putting myself down and beating myself up, it's going to be very hard, it's going to be really really really painful to do this work. So it makes sense that people shy away if it's so incredibly again difficult. The behavior is already difficult, so we want the work to be doable.

Speaker 2: 17:14

So I think if we can over time develop this attitude of again kind of acceptance that not accepting that this is what we want to do, but accepting that okay, I can still kind of fully embrace myself, right, the person that I am, even if I'm still engaging in a behavior that I'm trying to change. So in my experience it's really kind of that attitude of non-judgment. It's kind of needed to even move forward in our journey towards hopefully being able to release this behavior. The other thing that I've noticed and tell me if this kind of resonates with your experience is that from a very kind of pragmatic point of view, the hardship that we are sometimes, you know, if we're very, very critical, that kind of keeps us kind of locked almost right. It's very hard to see possibility and to try to be creative with kind of what might work for me.

Speaker 2: 18:19

What else can I add to the mix in terms of coping mechanisms? If we are again very, very angry, very harsh, I think that leaves us kind of even more vulnerable for another episode of emotional living right, because we know that it's really this overwhelming emotion that is hard for us to contain. That kind of prompts us to eat in the first place. So I think there are different reasons why it's so important to kind of have that compassion, have that kindness that we probably would extend to others, to also try to extend that to ourselves as we are in this process.

Speaker 1: 18:55

Yeah and I get that that's really hard for a lot of people, especially at the beginning of their journey is making that shift from being overly critical and judgmental of themselves. Do you have some like key strategies without giving away too much, but things that maybe the listeners can do to start to make that shift, and more self-compassion and grace?

Speaker 2: 19:24

Yeah. So I think the first thing, just kind of knowing the knowledge that, from a pragmatic point of view, that really it's not gonna further us in this journey that we wanna be, but we know that knowing that something is not helpful doesn't necessarily make it easier to kind of embody that. But sometimes, what I was gonna mention before, that sometimes we extend that to others much more readily. And kind of, what about ourselves? Can we have that compassion towards ourselves, the same compassion that we would have towards a best friend who come to us Because, again, they had eight more than they wanted on a consistent basis?

Speaker 2: 20:09

The other piece in my experience is that I guess, going back to the beginning, I don't think there's a substitute for doing the inner work that is needed, because this is really a complex behavior. So, as complex as it is, I don't think there's gonna one kind of strategy that will help everyone. So I think, really, kind of, if we want to do this work, I think it's helpful to kind of be prepared that this might take some time. But this is really kind of going within and trying to know ourselves better and kind of befriend different parts of ourselves that might come up as we're trying to be more aware and also, I think, in some way, to be kind of cognizant that if we're in this path it's very courageous of us, so also seeing the courage that it takes to this work, because we know it's not easy.

Speaker 2: 21:03

So, kind of having all this in mind, I think it's kind of a nice substitute, if you will, for this kind of more harshness, also making a space for and there's a reason why probably these are the voices that people have heard the judgment about how they eat and how much, how often. So to also honor that probably those voices kind of didn't develop in a vacuum and again to try to contain, right, if you're working on this on your own, kind of contain yourself, trying to understand that there's a reason why perhaps you're being harsh. But what about? Okay, we can leave, we can see that right, we can witness a harshness. We can kind of leave it here almost to the side, kind of leave some space for more of these other sets of feelings, to the understanding, the compassion, the grace, the kindness, gradually.

Speaker 1: 21:55

That's such a good point, claudia, in that a lot of our internal critical thoughts aren't necessarily coming from our own voice and our own self. There are a lot of criticisms that we've picked up throughout our life, whether that's from our parents or other caregivers or teachers or other peers. We tend to hold onto and internalize a lot of those critical statements and then we repeat them so often on our heads that it does start to sound like us. But if we start to slow it down a little bit and we start to, yeah, do that inner work, we can recognize oh, that's not really my voice. That was grandma's voice talking about me always eating the cookies when I went to her house and I really internalized that and developed a lot of shame around that. But it's not really my voice, so I can let it go.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Exactly right. All these things that we can do only when we allow some space for this inner work.

Speaker 1: 23:00

Yeah and yes, the inner work isn't always fun or enjoyable or like woo yay. Sometimes it is. But also being in a room with somebody and being seen for who you really are, as scary as it can be, is also a very beautiful thing.

Speaker 2: 23:24

Yes, right, it's kind of. Sometimes the work is hard, but I think you're referring to these moments that seem like almost like magical, and when you can witness, like someone is giving you the honor for you to witness their journey, and it'd be magic in quotes, if you will, that can happen in that encounter.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Yeah, and it's beautiful from a therapist standpoint, it's amazing from a client's standpoint of getting to those magical moments and then recognizing oh, I don't have to keep repeating these problems or patterns that aren't quite serving me anymore. I can, I can try developing new patterns.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Yes, and now that you say that sometimes I think about this, that it's how I see it, right.

Speaker 2: 24:12

So right, if we understand emotional eating really as a coping mechanism, I think, as with really any coping mechanism, right when we are coming, right from the standpoint of, you know, we are the coach or we are the therapist, we really don't want and again, this is my perspective, other, you know, professionals might see differently we really don't want to kind of come in and try to kind of remove the coping mechanism.

Speaker 2: 24:38

I kind of reaped that away from their lives, I think, eventually, because that doesn't really work. If we were to do that that wouldn't even be effective. So what really we want to try to do is, if they have this as a coping mechanism, that they may need this for right now, can we work on again trying to understand this, trying to make space for really getting at the root cause of why, right at this point in their life, they feel that this is absolutely needed. And I think in that process then it becomes a space for kind of bringing on perhaps again other avenues. But I really think that that's not the first thing that we want to do. I think there's really first we need the space for understanding why perhaps is it that this is such an important coping mechanism. Not take that away, but through the work, allow them to become in touch with again the motivation, the root cause, so that space starts to be made for perhaps other possibilities.

Speaker 1: 25:45

This is such a big difference between some of the programs that I've seen out there that are very behavioral based, or books that we've read that are very self-help but behavioral based, is that we focus on the behavior. We focus on the behavior of the emotional eating. We focus on the behavior of eating lots of food. We focus on the behavior of eating certain types of food. But when we only focus on the behavior and we don't do the inner work, we don't work on those thoughts, those relationships with food, the relationship with your body, the motivation for those behaviors.

Speaker 1: 26:20

The behaviors are going to come back eventually. We can't just white knuckle it and that feels like what we're doing is we're just trying to get through by replacing these behaviors, these coping skills, with something else that may or may not be as effective. And then if we don't address that inner stuff, eventually the inner stuff comes back and we repeat those behaviors and then we repeat all of these thoughts and feelings of, well, I'm a failure. See, here's another thing that I tried that didn't work. But what's different about your and my approach is this we look at the inner stuff, we look at the motivations. Sounds like you help your clients reframe those thoughts and think differently and believe differently, and then you get lasting behavior change.

Speaker 2: 27:11

Yeah, and the line is what you're saying. So when I think it's really taking the time, because this, as I usually say now in my work as a therapist, right the behaviors, right, the that brings them to the work, therapy, or in the coaching realm, in the emotional leading and things that have been developing usually, you know, for months, if not for years oftentimes, and therefore it does take time to really be able to go in depth with really the seriousness right that is needed so that the lasting change can really happen. So I always take that approach of baby steps and this is gradual, just as they didn't get to right how they're feeling and what they're doing when they come to see us. It will take, because the inner work takes time, because it's really shifting and I'm getting kind of somewhat abstract. I think it's really shifting the relationship with ourselves and that's really what it's happening, and then, right, then, the relationship with food can be transformed.

Speaker 1: 28:19

Yeah, it's not necessarily about the food. It's always about us, and the food is just a tool.

Speaker 2: 28:26

Yes, yes, and I think it's just so great to be able to do this work and kind of walk along this path with the women that are struggling with this, because these things that we are saying, that perhaps we say them and it kind of makes sense to us, but this can be really kind of insights for so many people that, again, it's usually not that we can come and say them, but it's this process of working together, that kind of it comes up and they really connect with this and then they go with this and they kind of take these places in a way.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Are there any other thoughts or things that you want to share with the listeners today?

Speaker 2: 29:13

Yeah, I mean, there are so many, so many things. I guess I choose. I'm going to choose two or three. I think one thing that I reflect when I think about emotional leading is right again, if we go back to the definition of what it is is this overwhelming feeling that we kind of have a hard time experiencing and then we have this feeling that or the sense that we need to do something right, we need to fix it, we need to get rid of the feeling and therefore, in the case of emotional leading, we go on it and for a moment right, for a moment, for a brief moment, it works.

Speaker 2: 29:44

I always reflect, or I often reflect on this aspect. I think about, let's say, our society, that I think it's so ingrained, this feeling that, or this sense that if we're feeling an overwhelming feeling, let's say, you know, I'm overly stressed, I'm overly sad, you know I had a loss, I'm heartbroken, I'm feeling really lonely, whatever the feeling might be. But it's kind of too much in quotes of that feeling, I guess, always the invitation I think it really is, instead of by default, to try to fit, to try to think okay, let me, I need to do something right To get rid of this. I think there's a lot of value in if we can, right, if we can develop this almost like, strengthen this muscle of staying with that feeling a little bit longer, even if it is difficult. So I guess what I'm trying to say is just because, just in quotes, the feeling that I'm experiencing let's say, sadness, it's overwhelming.

Speaker 2: 30:49

That doesn't necessarily mean that I absolutely need right now to go eat. All this, I mean, I know. I mean perhaps in the moment it will make me feel better in the moment. But if we struggle with this for a long time, we know, right, we know the price that we pay for this. So I heard this from someone, right, it's not my line, but this idea that it's a moment of pleasure and a lifetime of misery, in a way, right, this sounds extreme, but it's kind of that idea and then perhaps kind of see if we can develop that stance of okay, almost like again this witnessing and really feeling sad today. I have reasons for this and it's this and this I'm just going to consider perhaps not that we don't need a little bit more, but the idea that, okay, perhaps we can, perhaps there's value, perhaps there are lessons, perhaps I can be with this overwhelming emotion, even if it feels kind of too much to contain.

Speaker 1: 31:46

So what I heard you say is that don't be afraid of your emotions. Feel them, even when they feel uncomfortable and overwhelming. See if you can sit in that emotion for just a little bit longer than maybe you would have before, rather than immediately reaching for the cookie or the chips or the food or whatever coping mechanism you're looking for. Sit in that discomfort for a little bit longer. And, as you're talking about it, I'm thinking of that window of tolerance, of when we sit in those uncomfortable emotions for just a little bit longer. We stretch our window of tolerance, we stretch our comfort zone, we stretch and grow what we can handle so things become less overwhelming.

Speaker 2: 32:34

Exactly right that we don't need to rush. I always say, like the cookie, it's going to be there, it's always going to be there, it's always going to be reachable, even if you don't have it at home. But this work, I think it's so worth it to engage in it. And I guess the other piece that I always like to end with is really speaking about my hope.

Speaker 2: 32:57

I feel really hopeful and very optimistic about women who are, in this day and age, struggling with this, because I think there's so much out there, so many resources that perhaps 20, 25 years ago were not there or we didn't have really kind of the research as advanced as we have it today. There's so many people, kind of experts, guides, who can help you in this path and the I guess what I want to share is my belief that it is possible, regardless, regardless of how long, regardless of how much, that your past doesn't need necessarily to mean that your present and your future will need to be in this area. Let's say, exactly like your past was, of course, in, your work is needed. I know that has became clear over our conversation. The work needs to happen, but there are people who can help you and there are paths that you can take that can help you gradually and release somewhat this behavior, if this is something that you want to do.

Speaker 1: 34:08

You don't have to stay stuck into this change as possible. Yeah, claudia, if listeners want to get a hold of you or find out more about you, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 2: 34:24

Yeah, so it's really easy. So my website is my name, so it's claudiaperolinicom, so over there I have kind of blogs to try to help in our strategies and tools. I also have a quiz that is claudiaperolinicom slash quiz, and the idea of the quiz is going hand in hand with what we spoke. It's really to start deepening that insight with it, specifically about learning more about what are your main emotional triggers for emotional eating. So that's another way that they can take that and receive the results with a video from me and some tips, and we can stay connected that way.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Awesome, awesome. And if listeners, you're driving or you have your hands in the dishwasher, all of those things will be in the show notes. You can just go back to the show notes and find all of that. You don't have to try and write it down really quickly. Claudia, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you on and it's just so much fun to find people who are as passionate about emotional eating in a very different light of like, emotional eating is not all bad and we need to stop it. It's just very refreshing to know that there are other people like me out there.

Speaker 2: 35:31

Thank you so much for having it. It's really a pleasure. I'm very passionate about this, so thank you for the space to speak more and share this message with me. So thank you.