From Setback to Success: Feras Alhlou's Entrepreneurial Journey

How did Feras Alhlou transform a career setback into a multi-million-dollar success story? Discover the incredible journey of this Bay Area entrepreneur and consultant who rebounded from the dot-com bubble burst in 2003 to build and sell his company, Enor, to Dentsu in 2019. Ferris opens up about the emotional toll of being laid off, the invaluable lessons he learned, and how recognizing and leveraging transferable skills played a crucial role in his entrepreneurial success.

Throughout our conversation, Feras emphasizes the importance of resilience and adaptability in overcoming life's unexpected challenges. From mastering sales skills to strategically outsourcing weaknesses, he provides actionable advice on how to navigate the ups and downs of business. Ferris also shares his insights on the necessity of clear job role definitions and smart hiring strategies, drawing on his extensive experience to offer practical tips for both budding and seasoned entrepreneurs.

Finally, we explore the motivations behind Feras' decision to sell Enor, the significance of transparency and teamwork during tough times, and the profound impact of gratitude and service on building thriving communities. Ferris's story is a testament to the perseverance required for genuine growth and a reminder that success is often a result of dedication and hard work. Whether you're just starting out or looking to elevate your business, this episode is packed with inspiration and wisdom to guide you on your entrepreneurial journey.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

I never told no one that my whole life I've been holding back. Every time I load my gun up so I can shoot for the star, I hear a voice like who do you?

Speaker 2: 0:11

think you are all right. Everybody. Another day, another dollar. Another one of my favorite podcasts it's my own podcast and I know this is going to be one of my favorite episodes got a distinguished guest, an, a guy living out in the Bay, the Bay Area, california, my stronghold, probably my number one state too for downloads. Four years running, ferris Alou years of unearthing opportunities, overcoming setbacks and making pivots, culminating in success for Ferris. In 2019, he sold Enor, a digital analytics consulting firm, to Dentsu, a top five global media company. In his current venture Startup with Ferris, he's on a mission to help entrepreneurs in the consulting and services space start and grow their business smarter and stronger. Ferris founded, grew and sold businesses in the US and abroad. He's a speaker board member, lifelong dedication to nonprofits, advisor to 150 founders.

Speaker 2: 1:15

You're going to put that you're an author. He's an author. And before it was hip to do it. And third degree black belt in Aikido. Well, welcome brother, I'm glad to have you. I'm hip to do it. And third degree black belt in Aikido. Well, welcome brother, I'm glad to have you. I'm honored to have you.

Speaker 3: 1:30

Omar, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:34

You know we've all had setbacks, and that's one thing. People don't understand the road to success. You know there's no rocket ship. You know there's setbacks. Setbacks isn't a failure. So you were laid off. What, what, like, what brought you to that culmination that you were laid off?

Speaker 3: 1:55

So we lived in Florida, as I mentioned before, uh till 98, I moved with my employer to the Bay area, to the San Francisco Bay Area around that time, got into the startup scene and then in 2003, that's after the bubble burst. So we survived the bubble. For those of us old enough remember that it was a really tough market at the time, similar to what we're seeing today with these waves of layoffs. So we survived that. And then in 2003, our company was building infrastructure systems for Cox and Comcast and AT&T, but we started to run out of money and one day it was midweek the new CEO was brought in to help ride the ship, walked into my office, I remember, and closed the door, and that's not common. I said okay, what's going on? What did I do? Did I mess up with one of the team members? And he said hey, ferris, on Friday we have a layoff and you are part of it.

Speaker 3: 3:07

And, omar, every time I remember this, it's like my stomach drops and my heart starts to beat. I don't know how to describe it, this mix of emotions like wait a second, what just happened? How could it happen to me? I'm a VP, I've been working really hard. You feel this sense of inadequacy, you question your self-worth. And then I had a young family at the time. Obviously, the financials come to mind. All of that is happening in a fraction of a second. And then reality hits and I went home early in the afternoon and my wife was very surprised. She said wait a second. You know startup, I usually come back home at 8, 8.30 at night and I said here's what happened. And she was very supportive. She's an amazing woman. We're still married for long, for 36 years, and it was hard. It was really hard for the first few days.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Well, I mean, here you are. You survived the dot-com bubble. You figured after that. You know it's easy street. You're there. You know you're a street. You're there. You know you're a survivor, you're a fighter, you know. I'm sure you know. Days before you you weren't thinking an exit strategy, you weren't thinking. You were thinking pretty much you were going to grow with this company.

Speaker 3: 4:38

Yeah, oh, I had. I mean, it was one of those hardcore startups. We were working crazy hours. I mean, everyone signed up to work long hours and we had everyone and I was an executive. We had a whole lot of options and option. There was an option plan and when the company gets sold or goes public, you know, you recount the numbers. I don't know version, I don't know All that, as we used to joke around here in Silicon Valley, all those options, all those documents were toilet paper at the end of the day, worth nothing. But you learn. I mean I don't think I would have been able to do what I did when I started my own business without everything I learned in that startup the work ethic, the importance of wearing a lot of hats, the importance of how we hired a lot of people, just learning a lot about just growing a business, about looking for investors. All of that we learned, I learned in that startup, which, in a way, that's what I, when I speak with founders, I say look at what you've done in the last five, 10, 20 years, whatever it is, whether you worked in a company for an employer or you had your own business. You have a lot of skills that are transferable.

Speaker 3: 5:50

Sometimes life throws things at us unexpectedly and it's okay to take that hit and mourn for a few days. But you don't want to be stuck in that zone. You want to be able to get back on your feet and just go and hit the pavement and look for the next thing. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it's going to happen quickly. Some of us need more time to kind of recalibrate and revisit and take your time to just evaluate everything around you. But you can't be stuck in this.

Speaker 3: 6:26

Oh my God, I'm a failure. Oh my God, what happened? Oh my God, why me? Oh my God, they picked on me. Yes, they could have done all of that, but that's history. What do you want to do? Sue them, okay, go sue them. Waste your money, whatever, if there's a legitimate reason to sue back and find opportunities. And it's not easy. I'm not saying it's easy by any means. It took me. I didn't find a job, not even one interview, for six, seven, eight weeks, I think. And that's when I in a way forced to start a business with my business partner, because that was sort of the only option.

Speaker 2: 6:57

Now you said it best, you just let it go and you look forward. But a lot of times, people, you talk about it just the same way I talk about you know, our past it's just, it's just a story, it's just to use for inspiration or from point A to point B. But a lot of people keep on living in his or her story and, yes, oh, I could have, or, you know, they keep on reliving and they can't let go of of it. And, like what you said, you could sue, but who cares? Just move forward At the end of the day. Yeah, those those first few days, and you know, until you started your company, you know it was a dark period. You never realized that it was actually a complete blessing in disguise.

Speaker 3: 7:49

And you know, as as as I was walking that afternoon leaving the company, one of the one of the ladies in HR it was a friend and she she came by and said hey, ferris, I know this is difficult, you probably don't want to listen or hear anything from anyone, but I can tell you because she had been laid off in a previous life. She said you never know, the best thing could come out of this. So I didn't even pay attention to that at the time. But you're right, I was forced to start a business, to get into this thing called entrepreneurship, and then that wasn't easy either. I didn't have any sales background. I had 10 years in corporate and was close to marketing and sales, but I never asked anyone for money.

Speaker 3: 8:34

So starting a small business, going from selling to the C-level to the C-suite for Fortune 500, to start a new business a small business at the time selling web design and later online marketing to small business owners was a huge mindset shift, you know. But you got to do what you got to do and you have to knock on doors. I had to learn sales. I had to listen to the CDs CDs were a thing at the time. I had to sign up for courses. Two three-day courses on sales took notes. I sucked at it for weeks and months and then you get better and then you get really good at it, then it becomes second nature and then you love it.

Speaker 2: 9:22

Nobody's born into sales. Nobody's a great salesperson. It's just like you weren't a great businessman when you first opened. But the more you do it, and if you do it on a consistent basis, you get better and better, and you believed in yourself and you believed in your product and that's what made it click and that's what made you become a better salesperson.

Speaker 3: 9:45

I think so too, and a lot of us, especially those of us who were not involved in sales at all, and I think, based on some stats I've read, 68%, 70% of founders, people who start new businesses they don't have any background in sales. So not only that, a lot of us, if we worked in big companies and we were like technical or maybe back office, we look at sales and marketing as the dark side. And maybe last time we tried this, maybe used car salesperson trying to push something on us, right? So we have, I think we have this. Sales is a dirty word. Sales, you know, some people are just natural salespeople. Okay, there could be some people who are really good at sales, but, my friend, it's a muscle. Sales is a muscle, marketing is a muscle, hiring people is a muscle.

Speaker 3: 10:34

And as a business owner, if you want to start a business, you want to do whatever you want to do. You got to learn the tools of the trade, the skills, and how do you learn? You know you educate yourself. You know the. I think learning is education and application. Whoever said that? You know they said it best. So you got to learn and apply, learn and apply, and it just you got to do the reps, and then you get better at it and the best part about it, though, is yes, you read the books.

Speaker 2: 11:03

You heard the CDs is yes, you read the books, you heard the cds. You went to the seminars. Most of those people go, and the one thing that you do that they didn't do. They became seminar junkies. But they don't. They never implement, and you know, being a consultant myself, I'm like why are you going to read my book? Why are you going to read all these books if you're not going to implement anything? You know they're boring. At least go watch fiction and have an enjoyment. You know, right, if you're going to sit in the seminar and I love these seminars, I've gone to them but if you're not going to implement anything, wouldn't you say, hey, man, just go travel somewhere and have a decent time? Then you know, literally, knowledge is useless until you implement.

Speaker 3: 11:53

Absolutely A hundred and twenty percent. And let me tell you this story. So in this one, one of those sales seminars that I attended, the coach said because I wasn't, but that was a bit later down the road and I was getting leads. Now I was doing networking and going around and figured out how to get leads, but I wasn't closing deals as much as I thought I should be. So in this more intermediate level seminar I went to and the coach said well, maybe you're not understanding the pain points of the clients, maybe you don't understand what is it they need and you're pitching something different. So here's a list of 31 or 32 questions. You should get information about the client, you know, ask those questions so that you'll learn more about it. Then you can customize your pitch, your proposal.

Speaker 3: 12:42

So I go to this meeting 1 pm after lunch with this director level or VP level at a company and we sat down and, yeah, how's it going? And so I said you know, I'd like to know more about your business. And I got that, omar, I got that spreadsheet and I started to ask these questions, you know, one at a time and they're like question seven or eight. I look and I put this guy to sleep. It was enough. I mean I, obviously I lost this deal. I didn't get it. Um, you know, but go to the lesson Exactly. And then, and then I I followed up with the coach and I said, dude, I followed what you told me, and he laughed and I mean I laughed at it and that was very painful at the time, but but exactly what he said. I learned from that.

Speaker 3: 13:31

And then then you it's, it's, I think, like there's a lot of science to sales. There's, you know, the follow-up there is. You know, being professional and being on time, being responsive, prepare your elevator pit, like all that. That's sort of the science. But over time, I think, as you do the reps, as you get closer and closer to the 10,000 hours to be a master in anything, you are learning along the way. You're learning from your mistakes, you're learning from others. But if you don't do the reps, and then it becomes an art, and then you can think on your feet, you know you don't have to memorize any checklist, anything. But if you don't do the reps, and then it becomes an art, and then you can think on your feet. You don't have to memorize any checklist, anything but that takes time.

Speaker 2: 14:11

No, what it boils down to is what we're doing. You have to build rapport, you have to connect, and with the number one thing that most people fail at sales is they want to throw up all their knowledge. They want to talk, talk, talk. Do all the talking instead of just listening. Absolutely, that's the number one thing. You can have the cure for cancer, you can have the cure for what ails that person, whether it's business, but if there's no connection, if you're not listening to him, you're not listening to what he's telling you, there's no connection and it's failure you. And that's why people, I'm lousy at sales, no, you're just lousy at connecting, you're just lousy at having a real conversation with people.

Speaker 3: 15:04

You said it best, I think, listening. And there are a lot of ways to listen. For example, for those of us who are new to sales, you can, for example, before let's say you had a cold call or you had a lead come to your website. You can send them a bit of a short survey or a few questions, research their website. Their LinkedIn profile is. Research their website, their LinkedIn profile like learn as much about the lead, about the people you're about to meet with, and show that you're interested in them as people. You know people buy from people. So if you're not listening, you're just going there to say I'm the best, I walk on the IT water. I walk on, you know, I know HR, whatever is it that you're selling, people are not going to buy from you.

Speaker 2: 15:46

Well, imagine, here you are, Ferris, you have a company, a consulting you know, building website, doing IT for small businesses, and if you just acted like everybody was beneath you? You know you came from, you know, you know your stuff and you have what it takes to get them from zero to hero. How great of connecting, how great of a close rate do you think you would have had.

Speaker 3: 16:21

Yeah, yeah, I mean I can tell you, like in other ventures, like for those of us who maybe you're mid-career now and you want to climb and get to the top of your second mountain after the first career, you have a lot of skills and you might be lacking we're talking a lot about sales, but you also could be lacking a skill of hiring people, managing people, or you may be lacking something numbers and finance, something, numbers and finance. So, whatever area of the business that you're lacking as a business owner, as a business owner, you don't have to master every aspect of the business, but you have to know a little bit of that and then find the right help. And in the case of sales, it's essential because if there's no sales, there's no business right.

Speaker 2: 17:10

But as you get it's the lifeline of any business.

Speaker 3: 17:14

Exactly, that's it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:17

Now another thing, that you help small businesses and you consult for companies, entrepreneurs. Why is it they don't understand? Maybe start outsourcing your weaknesses? I know I was an entrepreneur for 20 years and you know most entrepreneurs think they know everything, they can walk on water, they don't need any help. But yet when they can't ask for help and to when they can't ask for help. And two, they would rather be mediocre at something that they're horrible at than just outsourcing it and just focus on what they're great at.

Speaker 3: 18:02

That's a good point and we have at Startup with Ferris, our company media and advisory company. We have a bunch of what we call black belt rules and one of them is learn do, then seek, seek advice. So if you, let's say, you started a business, you started to have some customers. Now you've got an invoice, let's just pick an accounting. So I think it's important to learn about the basics, the foundation of accounting. Watch some stuff on YouTube, read it, maybe a small book on this stuff. But you don't have to master accounting. You do not need to go in and make changes in the general ledger. You don't need to know how to categorize things. Just go and get an accountant, a bookkeeper, who will take care of your invoicing. They'll follow up on collection. They'll make sure your books are in order. It's gonna cost you initially probably $150, $200 a month and then you are focused on growing the business, on selling and delivering.

Speaker 3: 19:02

If you are spending time, I tell founders all the time and I speak with founders who are maybe like seven digits now, you know a million two in revenue, and they're still like very involved hands-on in accounting my friend, outsource this stuff. You need that mental space to think about the business, to work on the business so you can grow it. So, to your point, some things you should not, I think, outsource anything strategic core to the business. You got to learn it, you got to master it, you got to build it in-house. But a lot of things you can outsource the headache or outsource your weakness. Get people to help you and get the right advisor someone like you, omar, who does you've written a book, you've done coaching. Get someone to help you in whatever area you think you need help in. Yeah, and now?

Speaker 2: 19:46

we're not all perfect, especially entrepreneurs. We might think that. But we're not all perfect, especially entrepreneurs. We might think that, but we're not. And I know one of your, one of your strong points is helping businesses do the hiring. Why, off, we really need to hire and we never hire smart. A lot of times we just grab a mirror, put it underneath the candidate's nose and if they're breathing, they're like congratulations, you're hired. And then they wonder why they have a problem because they're going through people left and right when they're not hiring the right people.

Speaker 3: 20:38

You know, so many thoughts are going through my mind now. So a recent I did a live stream and a few weeks ago and I said 10 tips for hiring and Omar, each one of them is a mistake I made.

Speaker 2: 20:54

Oh, God, trust me, you and I could do like a frigging 12-hour seminar on multiple days. I've hired the worst. It's one of those things you have to learn from. It's not failure, but it's like touching a hot stove, exactly. Some people don't keep on touching it.

Speaker 3: 21:13

Exactly. And I think if you've never hired before, so again, let's say you're a top copywriter, you're a top marketer and worked for corporate and you never had to hire either a vendor or an employee or a contractor. You don't know this stuff. So I think some of the common mistakes I think is that the founders themselves they don't define what is it they need help in. So just just talking to I was, I was at the doctor's office and he's a good friend for many years.

Speaker 3: 21:45

He said, hey, I'm looking for someone. He has a product he wants to sell. I said do you know? I have any? Get any good salesperson. I said what do you want? What are you looking to sell? Like what are you? Who's the he had? He had no idea. He just wants to. He wants to sell.

Speaker 3: 22:00

So I said you got to put down a job description of what you're looking for. Are you looking for a gatherer, for a hunter? Are you looking for someone? You have a lot of leads. You want someone to nurture and close. Are you looking for someone to get you leads?

Speaker 3: 22:14

So a lot of it, I think, starts with the founder sitting down. With the founders sitting down and documenting what is it that we have an issue with, or maybe the weakness, as you mentioned, and what type of person do we need? So that's, I think, number one make sure the requirements are well-defined, the job description is well-defined. Don't just go on ChatGPT and search, give me a job description for a salesperson or an HR person. No, just give it some thought. You can use ChatGPT, use it wisely.

Speaker 3: 22:43

And I think when candidates come in, do be nice, be professional, but do thorough vetting, ask a lot of questions and if you are hiring this is the last thing I would say here If you are hiring for an area you have very little background in, how can you discern? So make sure you bring someone to help you vet that candidate, someone who knows that area. And you have a friend in your network, you have maybe a family member you have, you know. I would say, go and hire someone from Upwork. If you're hiring a director of marketing, go and hire a CMO on Upwork. Pay them $250 an hour, whatever it is, to make sure they vet the right marketing candidates for you.

Speaker 3: 23:38

Because according, I think, to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's about I think it's about 15 or so percent. That's the impact, the cost of you making the wrong hire. It's pretty significant. It could be in the tens of thousands of dollars, depending on who you're hiring. So I would say, make sure the job description is there and then, second, I would say, vet the candidate properly and if you're hiring for something you have no idea about, get someone else to help you in that interview process.

Speaker 2: 24:09

Right. So first, this is something that the average person not any of our listeners or not anybody successful. But after selling Enor, why don't you just ride off into the sunset and go fishing or go find a hobby? Go back to Florida, go back to Florida fishing or go find a hobby.

Speaker 3: 24:32

Go back to Florida, yeah, go back to Florida. So I stayed. So we sold the business in 2019, stayed with the acquirer till 2021. And then when I wanted to, I had no. I had zero legal obligations and even financially, everything was sort of set up when we sold the business. But I wanted to make sure the integration went well. We had an amazing team before selling the business and most of them are still close friends. So I want to make sure everybody is situated properly and the integration went well and I knew the funny thing is we sold the business to one of our competitors. Actually, one of the brands within Bentsu was actually a direct competitor. So it was really funny, exciting in a way, but it's awkward at times in the whole selling process.

Speaker 3: 25:24

But after a couple of years two and a half years I decided to bow out of corporate. I did take some time off. Fortunately, I was able to do something I've been wanting to do for 20, 30 years is to dedicate some time to help nonprofits. So I dedicated almost a year and a half, almost two years actually a year and a half to two years helping a number of nonprofits pro bono. Again, I'm very fortunate that I was able to do that. And then I said, okay, I've done everything I wanted to do now and let's see how I can share with the next generation of founders. What is it that they need so they can be more successful and to learn from my mistakes? I don't want them to repeat my mistakes. Hopefully they can avoid that and be successful on their on their own.

Speaker 2: 26:14

Now, ferris, did you always? Did you have an exit strategy all these years? Once you started enor, or you were blown away by an offer, or you felt burnt, what like what drove you yeah, so.

Speaker 3: 26:28

So we had so I'm in Silicon Valley, so exiting is a thing building a company and sell it and we had. I had other businesses that I sold. They were not the same scale. At Enor, we built action offshore web development, back end infrastructure, web development, product development company in late 2008, 2009 and sold that one. So I had that experience. But the density the sales density was a different scale altogether Because we were, by that time, we were like in eight figures in terms of our revenue.

Speaker 3: 27:05

So it was a combination of things, like you hear in Silicon Valley. You hear about this story people built a company and they sold it, but we were very profitable. When we sold, we were doing really well. An amazing team, an A team that got us to seven figure profit. So we were doing well.

Speaker 3: 27:26

But it's sort of one thing that I hadn't done before is to do this big sort of exit. And we had something I don't talk a lot about. But we had my co-founder my late co-founder now and we wanted three years before we sold the business. We wanted to make sure what we're building is also shared with the team who helped us build it. So we wrote it and we made it upon ourselves where we said we would take a sizable X percent of anything we get from investors, or if we sell the business and share that with our team.

Speaker 3: 28:06

And that was selling the business and getting the resources and having that freedom in a way was very obviously satisfying and rewarding. But sharing that with our team members who helped us get to that point was as satisfying to me as anything else in terms of success. So there's all these things going in the back of my mind about selling the business. You know my co-founder I don't talk about this a lot because I can also get very emotional very quickly. He passed in 2016. So, and he had a young family as well. So that exit really it wasn't just sort of gave me some freedom in terms of what to do next, but also my co-founder's family also benefited and the team who helped us get there also. It had a major impact on their life. So it was a positive experience all around.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Paris. That's very forward thinking, that's very living in abundance, because most people never even think about their team when they sell Like well, hopefully they still have a job, hopefully they don't get laid off. But you there was no I in team like that, saying you wanted to reward your team because, at the end of the day, there's no self-made person, there's never a self-made company Nope 100%, and you know.

Speaker 3: 29:42

So for the founders who are now on maybe the cusp of making it big, take care of your people, not not just financially but also, you know, respect them, listen to them, care for them. They'll care for your business. Take care of them to take care of your business, all of that. But for the early founders, sometimes money is tight, like we struggled for the, the very first business, for for a couple years it was barely making it and then when we hired a few people it was payroll. Half of this gray hair here.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Trust me, 20 years being an entrepreneur and everybody thought I was an overnight success. But you learn to become a jack of all trades and you learn how to be resourceful. And you learn how to be a handyman, because when you're at break even, you know you don't have the resources to outsource and to fix things.

Speaker 3: 30:40

Absolutely so. If you're in that, if your listeners, if some of you are in that phase where you don't have a lot of resources and money is tight, you can't offer a lot of benefits, you can't maybe even offer health insurance, you can't do a lot of things for a 1K plans. But what we did is that we were very transparent and we actually I used to share later, like our financial, our numbers with our team on a monthly basis and quarterly basis, and I would. My promise was, as we get better, as we get more profitable or as we get profitable initially, we will share with you, we will add to our benefits. So so it was, and people obviously trust in you. Some some were not very, I think, patient and they moved on. Others stuck with us for the highs and for the lows and and that paid off for them.

Speaker 3: 31:28

But we, when we had just a sliver of profit, we would find out ways to maybe a nice dinner for the team members and their families at a nice steakhouse, for example. That was like one thing we did, and then later we added more benefits and then later, when we became very profitable I think we were kind of pioneers in that way we offered the health insurance. We covered the entire cost of health insurance for our people and their families, zero cost to employees. So we couldn't do any of that early on, but we made I had like, and I would ask my team if we want to add more benefits what is important to you? So we have a list.

Speaker 3: 32:09

And then we had our director of operations later, tina. She and she was amazing with people. She would ask people and then we should come back to me with some recommendations. Like here's what people are looking for and that's what we did so. So again, everyone has in a different phase of their entrepreneurial journey, but I think, take care of your team, deliver on your promises to them as the business improves.

Speaker 2: 32:34

take care of them and they will take care of your business in ways that you can't even think of or imagine. Well, you created culture. Culture starts from the top down. You know you created a company that people wanted to stay. People bought into your vision because you shared your visit vision, you, you Were also not like the Ebenezer Scrooge. You weren't living in scarcity. You didn't see people is checking accounts or as only as a tool For a means of one day selling your business. You, you, you. You took ownership and their wellbeing and they took ownership and your wellbeing and ownership and the company.

Speaker 3: 33:25

I mean it's, it sounds like you were there with us as well. Yeah, I mean it's. It's you learn like a lot of this stuff. So so I took I took one of those personality tests way back then. It was the strength finder. I think that's the one I liked and I did a couple of them and I think when I they rank the intensity of of your traits and all that good stuff, so I ranked high on achieving and then I think they ranked on 32 traits and on 31 was empathy Not good and with my competitive nature, okay. So I got to improve. So I started to read. Obviously I've been married for a long time, so I get feedback at home, have to be more empathetic, but also at work.

Speaker 3: 34:15

You mentioned listening earlier today. Listening is really important. Even if you lose a client or someone messes up royally, you never know. You got to just listen and understand. So listening with customers is important to close deals. Listening with your team members is even more important.

Speaker 3: 34:39

Before you send this email, what the heck happened? How could you do that? I was ready to go do a sales pitch and you were supposed to do the PowerPoint slides for me and you didn't do it. Maybe a junior salesperson. Well, maybe he sent it to your email and it went to spam. Maybe he did not understand or she did not understand what you asked him to do.

Speaker 3: 35:00

So I learned ask, inquire first before you rush to judgment. So those things I think people appreciate it. And then we have this theme. One of our values is hard on the issue, soft on people. So whenever something bad happens, we are going to peel the onion one later time to get to the bottom of it, to the root cause, and fix what happened, the processes, or train people. But then you've got to be soft on people. You just I'm not saying you have to be firm and all that and give people chances and give them a period maybe to improve and be specific in your feedback, but you can't just be screaming at people or just not being reasonable with them. So those are some of the things we implemented that I think helped build that culture that you mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2: 35:59

You're very service-oriented, and that leads us to start up with Ferris. You just pivoted, you just moved all that passion, all that love that you have towards people, instead of just you know, your team being a businessman, now you're helping entrepreneurs, which most entrepreneurs need a lot of help. Entrepreneurs need a lot of help. Clearly, the numbers show it. With especially times like these where the economy is a great. Is it? We really don't know that there's. It depends on who you ask. It depends, you know. It's just one of those questions. It depends. There's no real given oh it's doing amazing, and there's no oh, it's just horrible. So I mean uncertain times. It creates opportunities, but it also hurts a lot of entrepreneurs that clearly don't know how to really run, how to scale, how to monetize, how to market themselves, how to market their business.

Speaker 3: 37:20

Yeah, I mean these times. So we're seeing this data, these are facts. Waves of layoffs, not just in tech, across every other industry. So is that good? I mean that's not good, obviously, for the people who are impacted. I mean their layoffs seem like the stocks for those companies, their layoffs seem like the stocks for those companies.

Speaker 2: 37:45

They always shoot up. Layoffs usually happen, so you can make a quarter. A flat quarter look a lot better.

Speaker 3: 37:55

Exactly right. But people talk about a recession. Obviously, we're seeing higher prices at the gas station when you go shopping, so who knows? But if you are an entrepreneur I say because I get this question from founders and I speak to, on the average, anywhere from one to two founders every week for maybe the last 12 years or so but people say, like, is this a good time to start a business? Like economy. So my standard answer is the good time to start a business has the economy so. So my standard answer is the good time to start a business has nothing to do with the economy. Of course, if we have a pandemic and you know, don't start a business where you need foot traffic, of course, common sense, but other than that, other some maybe declining, dying industry.

Speaker 3: 38:43

You look for what you have. Look at your three things I would say Look at your hard skills. You are a master of HR consulting, you are great at writing. You are great at accounting, whatever the case might be, it, you name it. So those are technical hard skills. Also, do a mapping of your soft skills, not just listening, but also communication, presenting, working with clients, whatever that is. And then I think this is the most underutilized asset, that we have our network. So, between these three things your technical skills, your hard skills, your soft skills and your network you can do a mapping of all of that and say you know what on one page and say, okay, this is me, where in this market, in this world or online, what problems can I solve, what pain points I can help people overcome, what challenges I can help people overcome? And then you have a business. So I think I wouldn't worry. Obviously, be aware of external factors, but at the end of the day, especially as a small, business you're not going to be massively impacted by these external factors.

Speaker 3: 40:09

Look at your own assets and then look at the competitors and find a way to do it better than the competitors, maybe faster, maybe higher quality. Maybe you can be in person where the folks are offshoring. Whatever the case might be, find a differentiator and then start knocking on doors and then you have a business.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Ferris, what's your thoughts on this? Because a lot of times you hear from other gurus follow your passion, from other gurus follow your passion. Shouldn't it really be monetized on what you're really good at? And double down and triple down? Because if I followed my passion I mean one of my passions is snowboarding Should I open up a snowboard shop here in South Florida?

Speaker 3: 41:09

You'd have to come and visit us here in tahoe. So so my passion is to read and and listen to books. Like I could if I had it my way, I would just sit down on this couch and just read a book or listen to a book and obviously work out and stuff. But we have another black belt rule here at startupup with Ferris and we say it is passion is optional, sacrifice and skills are not. So you got to build a business based on the skills that you have and you got to put the sacrifices, the time, the effort, the resources and then finding someone out there who needs your service. You are adding value, you are solving a problem.

Speaker 3: 41:53

Passion, I think you can fulfill, satisfy your passion with something outside of work. You can satisfy your passion later at work, maybe, as you build your company. You just love internal stuff and managing the people that you have and you don't do anything external. Once you make it or you make it in the sense that you have revenue and you're profitable you can be a bit more picky and choosy about what you do within the business, because we do have natural inclinations. I know numbers really well, but I just do not like getting involved in accounting. I want to see the monthly report and I ask business questions and that's the end of it. So I don't have a passion for that.

Speaker 3: 42:34

But I love being out there talking to clients, whether pre-sales or post-sales. It's just very rewarding if our clients are happy, just to me. So I stay close to that. I love helping entrepreneurs and that's why we started this business. So I think passion is overrated in my mind. You can find passion later. You can find passion outside of work. Of course you don't want to work on something that you hate and dislike, but there are. I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, but if you're starting your business there'll be different. There'll be several areas of the business that you're not going to be good at and you're not going to like doing. But initially you got to do it. But over time I think it can be a bit more choosy on what you do and maybe something closer to what you have, maybe, natural inclination for.

Speaker 2: 43:23

Well, monetize, make a lot of money, be successful. And you can do two things with your passion. You can visit it on vacation or you can do whatever as your hobby. Clearly, you find your passion. Or two, there's always a side hustle. You know we all have to have multiple streams of income, but if you want your primary stream of income to be something that you love but you don't know whether you're really good at it or if there's a demand for it, you're going to be in a soup kitchen line somewhere.

Speaker 3: 44:00

Yeah, yeah, I mean. So side hustling, I have a pretty strong opinion on side hustling, but your point, you can, you can try something on the side for a little bit because that could distract you from your main hustle or from maybe a bigger vision, but don't jump ship prematurely. And because you love. I had a friend who loved singing and he thought he would, he had a shot at it. And he had a friend who loved singing and he thought he would, he had a shot at it and he had a voice coach and he did some amazing stuff as an amateur and he was putting a lot of time and effort into it and he thought he could make it, you know, be a professional singer and all that. That didn't pan out and that was his hobby and that was his side hustle, not for the money but just because he loved doing that. Right, so it could be. It could be hustle, not for the money, but just because he loved doing that. So it could be something you try as a hobby. Or you can do a sort of like a six-month plan.

Speaker 3: 44:55

If you want to do a side hustle about something you think you want to grow into a business. Just don't do it haphazardly, I would say, put together. I have a live stream on a six-month calculator to help you get there and basically start. Okay, let me do it five hours a week for the first month, 10 hours a week for the second month, right, see how to market, learn how to sell, get a couple of clients. Do you really enjoy any and all of this? If not, maybe nobody's buying, maybe nobody's interested in what you think you're, you're amazing at, so that that side hustling for that purpose, definitely support. Just yeah, just just be careful. Yeah, just don't sort of blindly follow this passion. I don't know if it's a generational thing. Maybe you know the younger crowd. They're hearing this thing about passion. I mean, I, I, I don't like to.

Speaker 3: 45:45

You know, put like point the finger at this generation is bad, or they're this or that or the other, whether gen z years or or or whatever and I think sometimes we are we are on the receiving end of a lot of marketing messages and a lot of, I would say, some false narratives. So, for the younger crowd out there, be careful where you're getting your information from and always, I think, seek advice from those who have been to where you want to go. So there's a lot of people who will give you advice. There's a lot of people, but look for people who care for you, people who know you and, ideally, if they have a technical domain knowledge in the area you want to go in, those are the best people to get advice from, not some guru on YouTube or someone who can kind of tell you yeah, yeah, go do this and you'll get a million followers and then, you know, you'll make it big.

Speaker 2: 46:50

If it wasn't all just so easy, right.

Speaker 3: 46:53

Absolutely. Tell me about it.

Speaker 2: 46:56

But you know people always want and I'm sure you have to discuss this with the entrepreneurs is people always want fast. They don't understand it's a process, they don't understand that after implementation it's a road, it's time, it's not. You wake up one day with a million followers or the gates of heaven are open and rainbows and all that. That's all just BS. But people are led to believe by watching you know, an influencer or whatnot that you know why can't it be fast, right? Well, it can't be fast because if it was that easy, if success was that easy, we would all have washboard abs, we would all live in the intercoastal. You know we would all go party at the Playboy Mansion. Some of us we would never age. You know life isn't like that. But you know people want easy and I'm sure you know sometimes, you know, when you consult these small businesses, it's like, you know, with growth and with owning a business, there is no overnight success.

Speaker 3: 48:19

It does not exist. And I tell people, entrepreneurship another black belt rule here, or principle entrepreneurship is five times harder than what you think and sometimes it's ten times harder. So, yeah, no, I mean, give you Kevin Chesky, the founder of Airbnb. He's now worth, I think, $9 or $11 billion. The company is worth $292 billion, so he said. When they started the company, he's one of his co-founders, flew into the Bay Area here and they decided to work 8 am till midnight, seven days a week for three to four months. So think about it. I mean I work hard, I work really hard, but I don't think I've ever worked that hard. No, me neither.

Speaker 3: 49:12

I got close to it for a period of time and he said he said they did it for three to four months because it's not sustainable. I mean, realistically it's not sustainable. But he said that focus because you left everything else in life and they were younger and they didn't have a whole lot of obligations, but it got them to where it got them. Not everyone can do that. I'm not saying everyone has the time or the effort or the lack of obligation to do this and not everyone is building the next Airbnb, especially in services and consulting.

Speaker 3: 49:44

But if you think you're going to grow and scale a business to seven figures and eight figures and you're working 40 hours a week, someone has sold you something, some bag of goods that unfortunately is empty. So yeah, it is hard work. Goods that unfortunately is empty, so yeah, it is hard work. And I think for the younger folks out there, find that season in your life, find that phase in your life where you can put the time, especially early on. Learn, be a sponge. Trust me skills, get more skills, whatever those skills are. It will pay off significantly and handsomely for you on the long run.

Speaker 2: 50:25

It will pay off significantly and handsomely for you on the long run. Ferris, who is your sweet spot, your ideal client with Startup with Ferris? Is it the guy that's just starting? Is it the person that was up at the top his business but now losing market share, losing money? Or just the entrepreneur that's just been stuck? You know break even, but they just don't know how to get past that.

Speaker 3: 50:57

Yeah, a lot of most of our content. So we have a YouTube channel and we have a daily newsletter on the website. Most of the content is geared toward early stage founders. So those who have an idea and they're struggling to start maybe they should read your book about fear and then those who started and they're struggling to grow. So early stage founders is most of our content.

Speaker 3: 51:25

On the consulting side, which we will be having more content on in the future, it's more the latter, those who also we could help those early stage entrepreneurs. But someone who wants to sell a business we have that experience Someone wants to buy a business, they want to merge, or they scale to half a million dollars, or they scaled a million dollars and now they're stuck for the last two, three years and I can tell you, whatever got you to a million will not get you to 2 million. So there's just a different mindset and the different systems that you need, the people you hire. So, yeah, I see a lot of the content is for early stage entrepreneurs. From a consulting perspective, we can support entrepreneurs at various phases of their growth.

Speaker 2: 52:19

Now Faris I know how to find you, but how does the listener find the free content? And, more importantly, how does the listener, how does the entrepreneur, go about into hiring you with your company? Startup with Ferris.

Speaker 3: 52:41

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for asking your company. Startup with ferris. Yeah, thank you, thank you for asking. So, startup with ferris, and ferris is spelled like my first name f-e-r-a-s um at that. At startup with ferris we have our youtube channel with over 200 videos, and we have the daily advisor, our daily newsletter on startup with ferris again f-e-r-a-scom on our website. So that is the free content available to folks interested. And then, on the consulting side, as of the recording of this podcast, believe it or not, we're not selling services yet that people can reach out to us, which they have been via email, but soon we will be having a services page with a couple of packages for more premium consulting type.

Speaker 2: 53:26

Do it now. You have the answers, you have the people have a lot of problems, entrepreneurs and you have the answer. You have the answer, you, you, you have, you have the shot. You have the cure for a lot of people that are yelling, and especially entrepreneurs, who think they know it. Until you know they, they have to close up shop and they talk about once being an entrepreneur or it's dangerous. I always knew that wasn't for me.

Speaker 3: 54:09

No, I hear you, happy to be of help. You can obviously follow us on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Facebook, all that good stuff on Twitter. But, yeah, check out the content on the YouTube channel and the newsletter and I'm happy to be of help.

Speaker 2: 54:26

Where do you see yourself going from here? What's your overall vision, your five-year vision for yourself and your new venture?

Speaker 3: 54:40

So I still have a few years in me. Oh, you have plenty, I'm not tired and go play?

Speaker 2: 54:47

you know, come, move back to Florida.

Speaker 3: 54:51

So the kids are are not kids anymore, they're all adults. Wife is also busy. She's a, she does amazing work, she's a social worker. So I have a lot of time on my hand. I still I enjoy my martial arts training and I obviously, you know, every once in a while we do a small you know family thing now. But, uh, I like, I really, really I think we have something to offer from all the scars and all the, all, the, all the things we've learned in the trenches and I want to share this with the community. So our goal is to to blow it out of the water. We're at around 6 000 followers on youtube. We want to get to 50 000, hopefully before the end of the year. We want to grow our, our newsletter and we just we're really focused now on on building this community of people who are there that our content is resonating with, and we're establishing a lot of these one-on-ones with them and helping them out and they're seeing the value.

Speaker 2: 55:47

So really, phase one in the next few months grow this community and, over time, really blow it out of the water on on youtube, in our, in our newsletter as well there's final question, because we live in a tickiktok society anything over an hour they're they're too busy, not not wanting to become better people or better entrepreneurs, but you know, there's something on netflix that's more important what words of wisdom do you have for that person that stuck? The entrepreneur that he does? He isn't't an owner, he doesn't own a business, the business owns him. Just like that 40 year old child that never left home and they just lost. They just lost the drive. They don't know how much more of it they can take of it they can take.

Speaker 3: 56:46

Yeah, I mean that's a real question and a tough question, I feel, for them, because I was in that same situation a few times, not just once. So I would say I mean, you have three options you double down, you pivot or you quit. So and I think I have a video, I did a live stream on that Double down, pivot have three options you double down, you pivot or you quit, and I think I have a video, I did a live stream on that Double down, pivot or quit. And you have to be honest with yourself. You have to do an assessment, maybe get a trusted advisor, evaluate what has maybe the last year, last 12 months, 18 months, and be realistic about the resources you have, including your time, and be willing, I think, to whatever that decision whether pivoting or doubling down or quitting don't do it emotionally. Do an objective assessment and then decide and then just proceed. There's no point Like if you lost all energy and you don't like what you're doing and you're barely making it month to month and you've tried everything and it's just not working out at time. Or maybe you're going through a tough personal situation, maybe a divorce, or you have aging parents. I'll end with this.

Speaker 3: 57:59

I spoke with a founder. He hired us a while ago and he wanted to grow. He was doing extremely well, amazing profit margins, and this was the time for him to grow. But after a few months he wasn't growing and he made some emotional decisions and hired quickly and it didn't work out. And then I asked him once.

Speaker 3: 58:18

I said what's going on? How many hours a week are you working? He said 35, 30 to 35 hours a week. I said you can't go that way. I said why you work hard? He said well, I'm going through a divorce. I said, my friend, this is not the time to grow your business. You have my permission to slow down. Forget about growth. Maintain what you have. You have something great, maintain it. Fix the stuff at home, recover from the divorce and everything that's associated with that and then come back and go to business. So I think for the entrepreneurs out there, do an objective, honest assessment and find ways to improve and give it your best shot and work hard. But then, if you're still stuck, you might have to pivot or you might have to just call quits and move on.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Amen, amen. Thank you for that answer and you know what I'm honored man, that publicist. I'm honored that you wanted to be on my show and we learned a lot, that you wanted to be on my show and we learned a lot. And you know, I expect to see even greater things from you because you're an amazing person and you're all about abundance and you're all about service. You want to see people thriving, you want to see people succeeding. So, thank you, thank you for the opportunity and, yeah, thank you, man.

Speaker 3: 59:54

So, thank you, thank you for the opportunity and, yeah, thank you, man, I'll definitely follow all your. If I ever do decide to be full-time entrepreneur again, then you know, I definitely know who to contact. I'm happy to chat. No, of course, and, omar, thank you so much for the great work you're doing with your podcast and the amazing guests you have. So keep up that good work and thank you for the insights you've shared with the audience on this episode as well. I appreciate it, thank you.