In this episode, Vinnie Tortorich, a trailblazer in the low carb movement, joins us to expose the truth about dirty keto and how processed foods are hijacking the health benefits of low carb diets. Discover the deceptive tactics used by the food industry and learn how to navigate the keto diet while prioritizing whole, unprocessed foods.
Key Takeaways:
- Processed foods marketed as "keto-certified" often contain hidden carbs and sugars that undermine the benefits of a low carb lifestyle.
- The food industry profits from the keto trend by promoting products that do not align with the true principles of a healthy low carb diet.
- Sticking to whole, unprocessed foods is crucial for reaping the full benefits of a low carb or keto diet.
- The medical community has been resistant to acknowledging the potential health benefits of low carb diets for various conditions.
Resources:
- Vinnie Tortorich's website: https://vinnietortorich.com/
- Dr. Philip Ovadia's website: https://ovadiahearthealth.com/home/
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Introduction and Vinnie's background
00:03:15 - The rise of dirty keto and processed foods
00:10:45 - Vinnie's personal experience with cancer and low carb
00:18:30 - Challenges of advocating for low carb in the medical community
00:25:00 - The importance of whole, unprocessed foods
00:32:10 - Final thoughts and takeaways
Guest Bio:
- Vinnie Tortorich: https://vinnietortorich.com/
Vinnie Tortorich is a leading voice in the low carb and keto community. With decades of experience as a fitness trainer and nutrition coach, Vinnie has helped countless individuals adopt a healthy low carb lifestyle. He is the host of the popular podcast "Fitness Confidential" and the author of the book "Fitness Confidential: Adventures in the Weight-Loss Game." Vinnie's personal battle with cancer and his success with a low carb approach have further fueled his passion for educating others about the benefits of this lifestyle.
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
Any use of this intellectual property for text and data mining or computational analysis including as training material for artificial intelligence systems is strictly prohibited without express written consent from Philip Ovadia.
In this episode, Vinnie Tortorich, a trailblazer in the low carb movement, joins us to expose the truth about dirty keto and how processed foods are hijacking the health benefits of low carb diets. Discover the deceptive tactics used by the food industry and learn how to navigate the keto diet while prioritizing whole, unprocessed foods.
Key Takeaways:
- Processed foods marketed as "keto-certified" often contain hidden carbs and sugars that undermine the benefits of a low carb lifestyle.
- The food industry profits from the keto trend by promoting products that do not align with the true principles of a healthy low carb diet.
- Sticking to whole, unprocessed foods is crucial for reaping the full benefits of a low carb or keto diet.
- The medical community has been resistant to acknowledging the potential health benefits of low carb diets for various conditions.
Resources:
- Vinnie Tortorich's website: https://vinnietortorich.com/
- Dr. Philip Ovadia's website: https://ovadiahearthealth.com/home/
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Introduction and Vinnie's background
00:03:15 - The rise of dirty keto and processed foods
00:10:45 - Vinnie's personal experience with cancer and low carb
00:18:30 - Challenges of advocating for low carb in the medical community
00:25:00 - The importance of whole, unprocessed foods
00:32:10 - Final thoughts and takeaways
Guest Bio:
- Vinnie Tortorich: https://vinnietortorich.com/
Vinnie Tortorich is a leading voice in the low carb and keto community. With decades of experience as a fitness trainer and nutrition coach, Vinnie has helped countless individuals adopt a healthy low carb lifestyle. He is the host of the popular podcast "Fitness Confidential" and the author of the book "Fitness Confidential: Adventures in the Weight-Loss Game." Vinnie's personal battle with cancer and his success with a low carb approach have further fueled his passion for educating others about the benefits of this lifestyle.
Chances are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't need to change your life and get healthier.
So take action right now. Book a call with Dr. Ovadia's team.
One small step in the right direction is all it takes to get started.
How to connect with Stay Off My Operating Table:
Twitter:
Learn more:
Theme Song : Rage Against
Written & Performed by Logan Gritton & Colin Gailey
(c) 2016 Mercury Retro Recordings
Any use of this intellectual property for text and data mining or computational analysis including as training material for artificial intelligence systems is strictly prohibited without express written consent from Philip Ovadia.
Well, thanks for joining us folks. This is the Stay Off my Operating Table podcast and I think, phil, I could be wrong, but I think today is a first for us. I think this is the first time we've done a second interview with a guest.
Speaker 2:I think you're right and there's a very good reason for it, and this is a great one. To start with, because the guest we have on today, vinny Tortorich, is worth. If I could have him on a weekly basis, I think I would, because he's just one of the great ones, but he's got a great new project that we want to talk about and that was certainly worth bringing Vinny back on. I don't think you need to introduce yourself to anyone, vinny. I think our audience is very familiar with you, but, just in case we got some newbies that are joining us, why don't you let them know a little bit about how you got where you are?
Speaker 3:You know that's an interesting thing. You know there's an old saying this uh, rancher was driving and checking his fences out in central texas and he got to one of the fence posts and he saw a turtle up on the fence. And uh, he said to the turtle um, turtle, how did you get up on to this fence post? And and the turtle said I don't know. And he goes turtle, how do you plan on getting off of this fence post? And the turtle said I don't know.
Speaker 3:And and you know, I think about that all the time because I'm not sure how I ended up on the fence post to, to be honest, um, and if I'm being perfectly candid, um, I started podcasting about 12 years ago when no one knew what a podcast was. Well, you got to think back. You go oh, come on 12 years. No, literally I would mention to people I'm doing a podcast and they would go how does that work? And I was like, well, it's kind of like a radio show, but on the internet. And they would go well, who can hear it? It's like, well, anyone who finds it? It's on apple itunes. That's the only place it was. That long ago I used to say we started podcasting when people still hand cranking podcasts kind of like you start an old car with a hand crank.
Speaker 3:And I, I started the show for one reason, and one reason only. It was because I had written a book. And you know the people over at William Morris Endeavor, one of the biggest talent agencies in the world. They wanted to represent the book and they said we love this book. But we went on, we Googled you and you do not exist on Google. And they said you need to figure out how to make yourself known to Google. And I literally went home and Googled how to become famous on Google and basically they were telling me you have to become viral on YouTube. And I was like okay, well, I'm not a hot chick in a bikini and I can't teach a squirrel how to water ski behind a remote control boat, so I don't know how to become viral.
Speaker 3:And one of my nephews said to me he goes, do a podcast. And I was like what are these words? You're putting together pod and cast. And what is that? He goes, goes. Well, you used to have a radio show in New Orleans, so you, you can podcast. You actually know how to communicate. And he told me he goes, most people doing podcasts have no idea what they're doing so, you will go right to the top of the charts. And I was like, wow, you, you really think so, and he goes. People are just fumbling around and you know how to do radio. So within a week, maybe, maybe six days, of hearing the term podcast, uh, anna Vocino and I put out our first podcast and the rest is history.
Speaker 3:And I I told your audience that story for a reason. I was doing something to sell something. What I did not expect to do was to introduce low-carb to a new world, and I say a new world because I didn't invent low-carb. You know, we could go way back to Otto Warburg, or we could go back further than that, to where people just ate meat. You know I didn't invent keto, but myself, gary Taubes, nina's book wasn't out yet.
Speaker 3:I know all of this sounds hard to believe, but I think Gary Taubes was like the only kind of you know other person I knew out there that was doing this stuff, and I was loathe to use the word ketogenic on the show or in my book. And the reason for that was because I thought every doctor in the world like you, philip, would go. Oh, he's telling people to go into ketoacidosis. He's trying to kill people, and so I left the term ketogenic out of everything. And then, before long, other people were coming around and climbing onto this and you know, the word ketogenic was out there right, and then ketogenic became keto, and the rest is history, as you can see in the documentary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, to get yeah, we'll sort of uh segue into the documentary there. So you know, as we look back at, you started doing documentaries in addition to the podcast and after the book. And of course the first one is kind of right behind you there for anyone watching on YouTube Fat, a Documentary, and then Fat 2. And those both really kind of told the story of how we got here with the low-fat diet, the food pyramid, the dietary guidelines, and exposed the truth behind that. And really I would say expose the lies behind that is maybe a better way to say that, or the mistruths. And then, of course, way to say that were the mistruths.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, in your third documentary you then turned your attention to the kind of fake food, especially fake meat industry beyond impossible. And now you know your new documentary is called Dirty Keto, and so people may be saying whoa keto, and so people may be saying whoa. Vinny was just here telling us how you know he promoted, you know popularized the ketogenic diet in many ways, and now he's kind of turning that questioning lens upon it. So maybe give people a little idea about how this fourth one came about maybe give people a little idea about how this fourth one came about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and by the way, jack, you may not know this, but Dr Ovedia and I met when I was out pushing Fat of Documentary the first one. And look, I never, I never meant to become a documentarian. As a matter of fact, I would never. That's not part of my title. You know people started asking me hey, you need to do the opposite of what the health and some of these propaganda films, you know, hey, they're lying. Why don't you lie in the opposite direction? It's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You think one lie begets a different lie? No, what if I just go out there and tell everyone the truth? Right, I'm always looking for the truth and you know you guys had mentioned Kate Shanahan off the air.
Speaker 3:Kate and I recorded last week and she said you know, you would have been the world's best scientist because you never have anything in your head other than looking for the truth. Looking for, you know, because there is a universal truth to everything and I wish that a vegan documentary would come out and say look, this diet. If you eat a whole food, vegan diet, you're doing a heck of a lot better than if you're out there eating processed junk food. You know just whole food. You know that's one thing, but then they would have to tell the truth. But leaving out animal protein means that you're really doing yourself a disservice. You know there's some vitamins you can get, namely vitamin B12, and you would have to take so much pea protein or hemp protein or some kind of protein to even get into the ballpark of getting enough protein per day to function correctly. But I decided to tell the truth in that movie and because I did that, it became a juggernaut. That's why the poster is behind me.
Speaker 3:And look how many people do a sequel to a documentary. That's you never hear that right. But Gravitas Ventures was like hey, this is the number one movie we've ever put out. Would you mind doing a sequel? And we all had time during the pandemic and I was able to do that. So how does that relate to what I'm doing now? You go wait, dirty Keto. You're going after you. Well, no, I'm not going after me and I'm not going after anyone who's doing low carb correctly. What happened was and you guys saw it when you watched the documentary is, as soon as you turn ketogenic into keto, now you have something that industry can grab onto and go. Okay, now we need to come up with keto foods that are shelf stable, that we can now sell to the general public, because this word keto is really big, and that was the kicking off point to the movie.
Speaker 1:I think it would be worthwhile to just give us two minutes on the, the little health journey that you had, that put you here, and then we'll we'll dive deeper into the uh, the latest documentary yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, in 2007, turns out, I had a real mean round of cancer. I had leukemia and they, you know, with leukemia they caught it pretty. It was a curable form of leukemia, but when they finally figured out what was wrong with me, they caught it late stage. So the doctor said to me she was like I'm not worried about the cancer killing you, I'm worried about the cancer killing you, I'm worried about the treatment killing you because we have to do, you know, we have to give you a you know a crap ton of of chemotherapy to try to beat this, and you could die from any kind of infection that comes in right. Um, they told me you can't be around your dogs, do not hug anyone. It's kind of like COVID protocol now or the way it was. You have to wear a mask around people, you can't leave the house, you can't do all of this stuff. So I was doing that. As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine, her dad, had the same leukemia that I had, late stage. He didn't make it. His PICC line got infected and that was enough to take him out. His body could not fight it. So that's always the problem.
Speaker 3:Well, I got to live and I was in Hollywood at the time. I was still living in Beverly Hills and my doctor, you know, once I was getting better, every one of my hoity-toity clients were saying hey, you know, you need to have eight, ten ounces of wheatgrass per day and you need to be juicing around the clock. And you know, hey, have you ever heard of, you know, just eating straight ginger juice or drinking straight ginger juice? I'm like all of this sounds pretty horrible. My stomach would just, I would be throwing up for the rest of my life. You know, because I've had an ounce of wheatgrass, you burp that for the next two days. You know, I couldn't imagine. Your stomach is trying to reject it, right. So I was like I couldn't imagine eight ounces a day, not to mention the cost of it. I was like I can't afford this.
Speaker 3:So on one of my last visits with my oncologist, I said to her I said is there any truth behind this wheatgrass stuff or the juicing, or the vegan, or any of it? She goes nah, no, no, nothing at all. And I'm getting ready to walk out of her office and she says to me she goes because one of my celebrity clients got me to this woman. That's how I was able to get the top person at Cedars-Sinai. She goes you keep people on these low carb protocols to get them to lose weight for movies, right? And I said, yeah, she goes. Do you do that yourself? And I said, yeah, she goes, do you do that yourself? And I said, no, you know, I ride the bike all the time I'm. You know, I'm a big time cyclist. I need carbs to cycle, because that was the thought pattern I said, but when I'm off the bike, I eat a lot of meat, I eat a lot of fish, I eat a lot of chicken just to get that protein in there, keep my body going. But on the bike, I feel like I need sugar. And she goes well, maybe you should get off the bike and just, you know, eat the way you tell your clients to eat, because we are learning right now that you know, cancer feeds on sugar.
Speaker 3:Now, by the way, this is 2007, and no one was talking about that, but in the background, oncologists knew this. Right, this was coming down the pipe. And I said, really? And she goes yeah. And I said, well, you said my cancer was going to come back. And she said, yeah, it'll be back five or six years It'll be back and we'll just knock it back again before it gets out of hand and you'll be fine. And I said to her I said what's the longest you've ever seen. She goes some studies. Sometimes people go eight, nine years, but don't expect that, expect five or six years. And I was like, all right, okay, that sounds about right. Well, long story short, I just finished chemo again in 2024. I went 17 years with no chemo and they took me off of all of the drugs that you know. They give you all these prophylactic drugs now, you know just to so you don't get infected. And all this.
Speaker 3:My neutrophils came back. You know it's supposed to take months to come back. They came back within weeks and I was able to exercise through chemo. I went for an infusion every day and I came back and either got on my spinner or my rowing machine and was able to continue to exercise through chemo. Right, this is all recent. Right, I'm still not out of the woods yet. My red blood cells and white blood cells are still whacked, but my neutrophils are in such a way that I'm able to leave the house. Nothing like this happened the last time, when I was still eating sugar. Now I'm an N1 experiment, right.
Speaker 3:But I talked to I don't know if you guys ever had Michelle Hearn on the show, no, you should have her on. Her wife had stage three or four breast cancer Same thing. She went strict keto. They had very clear margins. They were able to give her less chemo than they thought they would need to. She healed much faster.
Speaker 3:Yet not one doctor will ask us how we're doing this, right? My doctor just scratched his head. This is amazing, isn't it? Your numbers are popping back. You're a strong guy. That's all he said to me. And I have one of the top guys. You know everyone thinks their doctor is the best. I have one of the top guys over at UVA, and UVA is no BS. You know program when it comes to cancer, right? So no one's asking how this is working, they're just going. Your numbers are popping back. And they took me off of all of the prophylactic drugs and everything else, which I think I've said already. So that's my story. 17 years, that's three times the length of time they told me I would go before I needed chemo.
Speaker 2:I would go before I needed chemo. So it sounds like, though, from your story there that over the 17 years, despite the fact that we're gathering even more and more evidence about you know the benefits of low carb diets, ketogenic diets and cancer. I know you've spoken with Tom Seyfried a number of times and we've had him on as well, seyfried a number of times, and we've had him on as well, and you know my impression. Maybe it was more. My hope was that this was becoming more accepted in the oncology world, but it sounds like your experience 17 years later now, between you know your two bouts of cancer there wasn't much interest from from your doctors about this.
Speaker 3:No, it wasn't that there wasn't any interest. Um, it was that they didn't even ask the question, or he he did make, because it turns out, you know, he's a row he rose also. We row at the same club here in town and he's a very fit guy. He's in his 50s and he's incredibly fit and he made note of me being incredibly fit when he saw me. You don't see 61-year-old guys that are pretty ripped out coming in with cancer, and so he made note of that. He never asked what I ate, how I ate, nothing, and I didn't want to be that guy with a tinfoil hat going oh yeah, here's what I did.
Speaker 3:You know, no one really cares. You know what I mean? It's like look, you're a doctor, phil, you guys are busy, right? You're trying to get through your patient list and I feel that with doctors, you know, I feel like these guys got you know ABC and D and they got to go into the next room. I don't want to sit there and go hey, listen, doc, sit down, let me school you up on something that you're not going to believe, right? He's just going to yada yada me and get me out the room and go. Yeah, that's good for you. Keep doing that, but no one's going to go chat, would you agree? Or now I feel like I'm interviewing you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, I do think that's a central problem.
Speaker 2:I always say that you know, doctors are just way too busy to be paying attention to what's going on around them. And you know, thankfully maybe a few of us are paying attention, but for the most part everyone just kind of, you know, like you said, trying to get through their day, and I don't think that's unintentional, by the way. I think that's the way the system likes it. You know, the system doesn't necessarily want doctors asking questions and thinking about things like how do we keep people from getting sick in the first place and how do we maybe actually cure diseases instead of just keeping the customers for life as it is point. I don't think it excuses my colleagues to be honest, and I know I've certainly ruffled a few feathers these days and in the past years saying things like that. But you know, like you said, there is a truth and I think you know whether you're just an honest documentarian or whether you're a physician. We all should be seeking that truth and we got to go where that truth leads us ultimately.
Speaker 3:You're right, philip, but when you look at, you know, like Mark Kukazela, you know his own. You know colleagues want to kick him out of his practice and you know, you know Troklation has gone on his own and Brian Linsky's and all these guys who said I'm I'm tired of sick care. You know I want to do healthcare, I want to get these people healthy. Well, you can't do that within an organization. You have to break away and be willing to. You know, put a stake in the ground. You can go back to Robert Atkins, who's the current forefather of the low-carb diet. Do you know the story? Do you know how he figured it out?
Speaker 1:Somebody told us, but I don't remember. We actually had somebody on who gave us the story and I've forgotten who it is.
Speaker 3:I'm going to paraphrase it. But you know he, you know one of his patients came in who was morbidly obese, came in a year later and the guy was perfectly normal weight and he goes my God, what did you do? And he goes. I read Banting's letter of carpet on corpulence and uh, here here we are. And he was like oh wait, I've heard of that but I've never. You know, like most doctors, you know doctors will poo-poo it or forget about it or something like that. And but he wrote it down and went home and found Banting's you know there was no computer back then, he couldn't Google it. He found Banting's letter on copulence and said you know, this might work. And it turns out, I think it was two different patients and the two patients knew each other and they both lost weight. So he was like well, this is an N2 experiment, so let me look into this. And there we have it, right Before you know it he's regurgitating what Banting wrote back way back when, and you know, calling it the atkins diet, which I'm glad he did.
Speaker 3:But then everyone called him a kook and, you know, charlatan and everything else. So as a doctor, do you want to go down that road of being a kook or charlatan. And look at everyone who's done any, you know. You know william davis. You know wheat belly guy he people call him a kook. And uh, perlmutter, they call all of these guys nut jobs, right, but are they? Because they? You know, they're looking at the same stuff, right? You know? And you can say the same thing about, uh, uh, dr cardane, who brought forth the.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know what was he calling it, the? You know paleo. This is all in the same ballpark. You know paleo NSNG. You know low carb Atkins. People always ask me what's the difference? It's like it's just a different name. Call it what you want. Now, some people are doing carnivore, right, and I get asked about that. And it's like, yeah, I'm fine with it if you want to eat meat around the clock, I tend to like to have a vegetable or two, and you know. So, yeah, you know you could do it 20 different ways. There's not one way to do it, but most doctors are not like Atkins.
Speaker 1:They're not going to look into it um, I couldn't help but wonder, as I was watching, uh, the documentary um dirty keto why, what triggered it? Why, what led you to decide? Hmm, I think I'm gonna explore this. I mean, if you were somebody who didn't know anything about the low, the low carb lifestyle, it would make sense, but you've been doing this forever. What was it that motivated you to do that?
Speaker 3:A few things kept coming around. Ketocon was one of them. Philip, I think you were just there the other day and, as you notice, they're rebranding that. They were calling it KetoCon slash Hack your Health, which KetoCon was such a much better name. I don't know why they're changing it because they're worried about the negative connotation. I'm guessing I love Robin Switzer. I'm guessing she licked her finger and stuck it in the air and saw which way the wind was blowing. It was like, oh, keto has a dirty connotation to it now, so she's trying to change that. I'm guessing that's what she's doing.
Speaker 3:But my first thing was going to KetoCon. I was going there every year to give talks. Notice, they didn't invite me back this year and I would notice that all of the kiosks out away from where we were on stage talking, everybody was now doing you know this is no carb and low carb and kind of almost a carb. And I started hearing new words like allulose and monk fruit and you know sucralose and you know as your fame and just all you know all these different words. Right, and of course I jot everything down and go look it up later. And I also noticed and God, I love Robin to death, but she hates when I say this. Whenever I would go to the bathroom at KetoCon, I noticed that all the toilets looked like a Jackson Pollock and I hate to be crude on your podcast. It's like everyone here seems to have the craps, right, they all seem to have the squirts and it's like, oh, they're eating, they're sampling all that stuff and is sending them right to the bathroom, right, and nobody else would walk into a bathroom and go. What's going on here? But I did so. It's. I was like, wow, all of this fake stuff. And then I started seeing.
Speaker 3:Because of that, I started looking around when I go to the grocery store, since I go to right to the meat market and out I started walking up and down aisles when I had a chance and I started seeing something called net carbs and I saw something that said keto certified. I was like whoa, what do we have here? And so I picked up. I saw something that said keto certified. I was like whoa, what do we have here? And so I picked up the product and it said keto certified right there on the deal and I turned it over and it was full of carbs. And then I turned it back over and said you know, five net carbs on the product.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, okay, what's what's going on here? Net carbs, what is this? Well, magically, the industry decided on their own and you see, you don't need the FDA's approval on this. They could just do whatever they want because they pay for the FDA. So you know it's the prisoners are basically running the asylum.
Speaker 3:You can say, okay, this has 25 carbs in it, but there's 15 grams of fiber. So, magically, we're just going to subtract the 15 grams from the 25, and we're going to say it's 10 net carbs. Right now, it doesn't look so bad. Tell that to your liver. You think your liver is going to go wait, there was some fiber in this. We're going to separate this. This doesn't count. It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3:And then I started seeing the same thing, you know, with the sugars. They were subtracting all the sugar, alcohols and everything from the. This is completely made up out of whole cloth, all of it. And we started calling that dirty keto right. And because I talked to people and Philip knows this, because sometimes when people have heart problems I send them right to him I mean, hey, go. You know you need to go to Philip Ovadia. He's the guy.
Speaker 3:But when I would talk to people, they would say hey, you know, I've lost 90 pounds. I still have another 75 pounds to go and my weight loss has stopped in his tracks. As a matter of fact, I'm gaining weight. And when I would interview him, inevitably they were all using these products, these keto products, these dirty keto products. And when I would explain to him, go off of that, you'll start losing weight again. And everyone would like literally every one of them would Right. That's when I started going, wow, they're buying into this and I started looking. I started Googling and trying to figure out which government agency is certifying this. And there's no government agency at all, as you saw in the movie. Right, it's just a bunch of people with got together and said, hey, let's get this keto certification and we'll sell it to anyone. You could be selling a bowl of sugar and if you want to pay for that labeling, they'll give it to you. Pretty much, right, that's the way it works.
Speaker 2:Has to be net, net sugar, I guess, somehow. But yeah, you're right, and it really gets us back to that. You know, fundamental truth of you know you really got to be eating just real food and whatever dietary camp you want to be in. When that, when that starts to get into more and more processed food, it's, it leads us to bad places and I think that's the pattern that we really see over and over again.
Speaker 2:Like you said, there's a big difference between a whole food, plant-based diet and the vegan diet these days, and we see it with each of these things days and, um, we see it with each of these things and even, unfortunately, you know, dr Atkins, uh, uh, you know was, uh, that that brand has been corrupted, and you see all the processed food that are labeled Atkins, uh and uh, I, I, I commend you for, um, you know, turning the lens sort of on your camp. Uh, we'll call it in the keto camp. But I think it's an important warning for all of us that are involved in this low carb space that we really we can't get far away from that central messaging of just eat real food first and foremost.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a greater truth has never been spoken. You know it's so simple to do it right. Yet we've tried. You know, look, whenever you give anyone a diet, whenever you put the word. That's why I always call NSNG a lifestyle.
Speaker 3:And, by the way, everyone every company has tried to get me to let them license NSNG. And I looked at a few of them and looked at the product and went okay, this product is NSNG right now. So, and by the way, I would have like Ferrari money if I would license NSNG because I own that brand. But when I get my attorney to look at it, he always tells me well, listen, they can change this product the next day, the day after you do this, and you cannot take the license back for X amount of time. So that you know, if you give it to them for three years or two years or whatever, they can change the price and I'll tell them can you take this out of the contract?
Speaker 3:And every single one of them says no, can do, because we want to sell this company in six months to a bigger company, and then they can do whatever they want and we cannot take that language out, right? So that's why I'll never have a Ferrari because I don't want a Ferrari. But you understand what I'm saying? It's I will never have helicopter money because there, you know, no one will take that clause out. They refuse to period. It's crazy, but that's the world we live in. Money, money talks and uh, I'm not willing to to compromise my brand at least. But they don't really need my brand.
Speaker 1:They can go just get keto certified and just go that way you know, you know, I've been pondering the whole healthcare mess and you know, once you start to exit that system, it becomes clearer and clearer and clearer how all the pieces are interlocking and self-reinforcing. And I'm talking specifically about the food industry, the health insurance industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the hospital industry. The pharmaceutical industry and the, the hospital industry. Um, and I've I've been trying to find ways to to communicate succinctly, quickly, clearly, what's. You know what takes many, many words, trying to, trying to say it tightly, and it's, it's fascinating to me that even in this space that the, the chase for the big bucks, has corrupted what was what was initially just a pursuit of of genuine health. I don't know why I should be amazed. But of genuine health, I don't know why I should be amazed. But I don't even have a question, vinny.
Speaker 3:I'm just no, you know, look, I feel your pain. I tell people, go watch that movie on the Sackler family or the documentary on the Sacklers. And you know, see what they did. You know how they came up with this pain chart and got everyone hooked on this. You know, see what they did. You know how they came up with this pain chart and got everyone hooked on these class C narcotics, right. And then, once you can't get them anymore, these people end up on the street on heroin, you know. But they said, hey, these things are not addictive, you could take these things. And it wasn't even based on a study at all, right. Yet that got pushed through.
Speaker 3:And they were the ones that you and you go into a doctor's office. You see that pain chart, one through five, no pain, a little pain. Then you see the person squeezing their eyes. That's a lot of pain. Well, pain is relative. We don't know how much pain you might have been in and you know so you have that problem. So so if you can take the Sackler's arc, there's a great movie. If you just want to watch a movie with a beautiful woman in it, anne Hathaway, called Love and Other Drugs, have you ever seen that movie?
Speaker 1:Not no.
Speaker 3:It's another one where she's dying of something and she meets a drug rep. And it was right. When the blue pill you know the blue pill that guy's taking, the erection pill I can't think of the name of it, thank you, you could tell I don't need it yet because I can't tell you the name, but I'm sure it's coming soon. But it was. You know she couldn't get the drug she needed for a real illness. Yet you were able to get this other drug that you know did nothing except allow older men to have more sex. Right, the movie is amazing and I tell people watch these type of movies. You know, watch what happened with the Sackler family. There's a movie and a documentary and you'll see. Oh wait, if it's happening with that, it's happening with everything. Right, it's just an industry that's never going to stop. And you know we see it all the time because back when I was just doing a podcast and I wrote a book and then the book became a best-selling book and all of that, we watched everything on the internet. It was like a hockey stick for me. We saw my numbers go up Like you've never seen anyone climb so fast, right.
Speaker 3:Then, when I started getting into the mainstream by putting out popular documentaries. All of a sudden, my um, my uh, wikipedia went away. Wikipedia just wiped me off of Wikipedia. Um, and this makes me sound like I need a tinfoil hat, but these are facts. Uh, for your audience, my wife is a bit of a celebrity. Um, they removed me from being her husband on her Wikipedia. My hometown, like every hometown, has a Wikipedia. I was one of the famous people from, and when you grow up in a town of 5,000 people, it's not very hard to become famous. So I was one of the famous. They wiped me off of that Right, so I was completely wiped from that.
Speaker 3:Meta went after me, which is Facebook and Instagram. I used to have over 100 000 followers on instagram. Now I have like 94. They keep taking them away and then people write to me go hey, why did you take me off of instagram? It's like I never touch instagram, I'm just putting information up. So if you don't think this is real, and look if you're a vegan or someone listens, that's good, that's great. Guys like you need to be. You know, silenced, wait till they come after you, right? You know, they say I didn't say they came after this group, I didn't say anything. They went after that. They went after the Jews. I didn't say anything. Then they came after me and if you don't think it's going to happen to you, just don't say anything now and watch what happens. But that's what's happening in real time. They literally go after people like me once we make a splash.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. So you know, vinny, you've now spent 30 plus years, you know, pissing in the ocean as it is. You know what do you think it's making a difference? You know where do we go. What have you seen and where do you think we need to go? How do we get off the fence post to kind of get back to where you started?
Speaker 3:the answer is I don't know. You know, uh, you know, about one year ago, right now, uh, the great nina taishos was staying with us for several days and, uh, one night, um, nina and I were sitting out on on my patio and we decided to tie on a drink. And we're sitting there having a drink and we started going. You know, are we making a difference, right? Or is anyone? Because Nina has done more work in this space than anyone, right? Maybe her and Zoe Harcomb I don't know if you guys have those two on your show, but I'm fascinated with both of those women and the tireless efforts that they put out, right, and really don't get paid for it. And I was like Nina, are we making a difference at all? Like, I get to that point sometimes, yeah, because God only knows, I'm not doing this for money, right? I'm not getting rich doing this.
Speaker 3:So you're sitting there going and Nina's husband has said to her why are you still doing this? We don't make any money by doing this. If you put this kind of effort into anything else, you would be rich. The answer is we're the type of people that we have to right a wrong right. That's all we're doing. We're trying to right a wrong and we sit there and have a drink and go. Are we doing anything? Has anything changed? And the answer is I don't know. I don't know how to get off of that, that fence post at all and I don't think Nina knows how. Right. But here we are. You know, and speaking of Nina, you know she got called to testify in Timothy Noakes' trial. Are you guys familiar with Dr Tim Noakes and what happened to him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm not. I should know this.
Speaker 2:We'll give a little bit of the background for the audience okay, all right, I hope you're sitting down, jack.
Speaker 3:You look like you're sitting down because I am sitting down. The truth is stranger than fiction. Um Dr Tim Noakes, who's probably done more studies than any other doctor, he's in, uh, south Africa. Um, he's written a famous book that's been republished and re-upped like seven different times, called the Law of Running.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, yes, yeah, he's done more than anyone else in this field. Tim has been on my show probably a dozen times. Well, they were trying to go after Tim. So one night they got this woman to pretend she was just trying to get information, tim. So one night they they got this, you know this woman to pretend she was just trying to get information for her kid.
Speaker 3:And, um, it was the tweet heard around the world and I'm paraphrasing. The tweet was hey, my kid is coming off of, you know, breast milk and, uh, I want to put my kid on solid, solid food. What is the best way to feed my kid? And he goes well, you know, grind up vegetables and beef and that's the best. You know, you're going to get all the nutrients you need from vegetables and beef. And that was the big gotcha moment that he told the mother to give a kid beef. He was taken to trial in South Africa. It cost the South African government and I'm not exaggerating over a million dollars, I want to say $1.5 million to try this guy. And they brought in people like Zoe Harcombebe and nina taishos and all these people as a matter of fact, nina was telling me, the same people that had her on the stand, that was you know saying, you know she was giving her testimony you know, and they were trying to trip her up.
Speaker 3:They would come to her in the hallway and say, hey, would you mind signing my book for me? You know I'm a huge fan, right, that's how it was a kangaroo. It was just kangaroo color, right, it was just crazy way. And say, hey, would you mind signing my book for me? You know I'm a huge fan. Right, that's how it was a kangaroo. It was just kangaroo color, right, it was just crazy.
Speaker 3:Well, they found Tim Noakes innocent and that wasn't good enough. They put him up on trial. There's no such thing as no double jeopardy, I guess. There they did it again. They figured it would just run him out of money. There they did it again. They figured it would just run him out of money. They put him up in trial. That cost another $1.5 million. And they tried to convict him again of the same thing. And again, a jury found him innocent. You can't make this stuff up and I see the look on your face right now, and I don't know if you saw my first movie, but the same thing happened to this doctor in New Zealand, in Tasmania.
Speaker 3:Gary Fetke same exact thing. The government spent millions to try to just censure this guy and they couldn't and they finally dropped. You know, just censure this guy and they couldn't, and they finally dropped everything. And we think it's because it was right. Before my movie came out we had to go back and put something at the end of the movie and said, hey, they finally let this guy go. But there was this whole thing of this big movie that was going to come out showing exactly, and we had the footage. Philip, you've seen the movie showing exactly and we have the footage. And Philip, you've seen the movie, we have the footage and everything of that trial in the movie. It's like you're sitting there and I see the look on your face. Jack, you can't believe what I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:Well, sadly, I can't believe it, but it's still just. It's so extraordinarily painful to contemplate that this is in fact what's so extraordinarily painful to contemplate that this is in fact what's going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can make this stuff up. That's what I always tell people. You cannot make it up.
Speaker 1:You know I completely unrelated to the specifics of health I've I found myself most of my life tilting at windmills. That phrase comes from the Miguel Cervantes book Don Quixote, which is considered the first novel in the history of Western literature. The original novel. And the idea of tilting at windmills is you're attempting to do something impossible and probably a little bit ridiculous. And and yet that idea that cervantes created, uh, closing in on 400 years ago with this knight errant, Don Quixote, who was a little bit crazy, has inspired dreamers, people who dreamed for a better world for 400 years.
Speaker 1:And once I learned the story of Don Quixote, I've become fascinated with it.
Speaker 1:And it was the story itself was turned into a musical man of La Mancha, and the theme music from man of La Mancha is the impossible dream.
Speaker 1:Most people have heard that, but the lines, the lyrics to that are to dream the impossible dream. To fight the unbeatable foe, to bear the unbearable sorrow, to run where the brave dare not go, to right the unrightable wrong, to love pure and chaste from afar, to try, when your arms are too weary, to reach the unreachable star. The unreachable star. This is my quest to follow that star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far, to fight for the right without question or pause, to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause. And I think maybe this next bit is what drives people like Vinnie Tortorich and Bill Ovedia and to, to a lesser extent, me, and I know, if I'll only be true to this glorious quest, then my heart will lie peaceful and calm when I'm laid to my rest and the world will be better for this. That one man, scorned and covered with scars, did try with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable star. We may have to put a uh, I'll be right disclaimer on this episode.
Speaker 3:I think that song is old enough that you can uh, you can now recite it without having a problem. Um, that's pretty amazing that you you got all the words in there because I was going through going, I got to sing it to kind of get the words going and you just recited it, which was impressive. You know, when I was a kid my dad was a local. My dad was an American history professor but he taught high school and then he became a principal, but he was also a local politician in a small town and the reason being was he always felt like you know, he can do good, right, and he was elected to office for well over 20 years. Not many politicians can do that right. He didn't have any money behind him or anything, he just kind of always did the right thing. And I remember growing up and always seeing our name on the headline of the local paper and it wasn't always good, right, tortorich did this or Tortorich did that. I remember, you know, as a kid, when you walk into a restaurant and someone would go, he's a Tortorich. You know that they're not saying that in a good way, even when you're a kid, you know, because my daddy he did some pretty unsavory things where he was trying to help the poor people, right, and because he was poor, we, we, we. My dad grew up very poor, so he was trying to always help the poor people, and not everybody is into that.
Speaker 3:But the one thing I took from having a father who's a local politician was to never become a politician I I never. Because my dad said no matter what you do, half of the people are going to hate you. That's and that's just a fact. And he was fine with that. He was like you're going to hate you, and that's just a fact. And he was fine with that. He was like you're going to always upset half of the people. And I said you know, I don't want to, I never want to do that.
Speaker 3:And when I was getting my degree in exercise physiology and you know I also got a secondary education degree because I figured hell, I'm going to have to do something with this degree and you know, I don't think anyone else is going to hire me. So at the end I went hmm, I better become a teacher also, which I never used. But Tulane University came to me and said hey, listen, you made the dean's list seven out of eight semesters. I'm bragging right now, jack. They said you made the dean's list and you, of eight semesters. I'm bragging right now, jack. Um, they said you made the Dean's list and you were. You were on the football team, you've, you're, you're a smart guy. We will help you, we will pay for you to take the LSAT and you will be welcome to come to law school. Uh, here at Tulane.
Speaker 3:And um, I said, look, I'm, I've been broke for way too long. Um, I need to get out and work. I was already selling cars and I had a real estate license. I had a few things I was doing. I was making money as my senior year in college. And they were like well, what are you going to do? And I said I don't know, I'll probably be a PE teacher or something.
Speaker 3:And I remember them saying to me you're going to waste your life doing that. And I said, well, why is that a wasted life? You know, I would find it to be a wasted life if I was sitting in a cubicle reading all day and charging billable hours. I don't see that as a career, right, and I'll be dealing with conflict for the rest of my life. I hate conflict, but here I am, at 61 years old, dealing with conflict left, right and center, and it's exactly what I never wanted to do. I never wanted to become my father. As much as I love him, I never wanted to become the guy, and I'm doing exactly what he did. I'm fighting a fight and again, turtle fence post. I'm not sure why or how, but here we are.
Speaker 1:I'm imagining the title of this episode the Turtle on the Fence Post. How did I get here?
Speaker 2:how did I get here? Yeah, well, certainly not a wasted life. So let's talk about the details of the documentary. I know, as we're recording this on June 4th, it was supposed to be released a week or two ago, but kind of held, kind of held up in the process, uh, so maybe just, uh, let people know where they'll ultimately be able to find it, probably by the time this is out in a few weeks. Um and uh, how they can get dirty keto.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, my first three documentaries were released through gravitas ventures. I decided and, by the way, still love those guys. They've done well by me. Um, they do wide releases on these documentaries. There's always on like 70 different VODs around the world and airplanes and everything else. I decided to just put this one on Amazon. Uh, you know, amazon is the biggest shelf space in the world and my other documentaries are there. They do well on Amazon.
Speaker 3:It was supposed to come out, as you said, philip, on the 30th. It did not drop on that date. As of the 4th, it still has not dropped. I'm hoping it drops in the next day or two.
Speaker 3:Amazon is not giving me any reason as to why it's not dropped yet, other than we finally got a message back from them. So I don't think anything nefarious is happening, because Amazon is not like Meta or anyone else. All they care about is it's a meritocracy. They want to sell stuff, right. They wrote back and said we are quite simply backed up right Because they have to approve the movie before they put it up. Right, and they said we're quite frankly backed up right Because they have to approve the movie before they put it up. Right, and they said, we're quite frankly, backed up and your movie is not up yet. Sorry, but they're Amazon. They can do whatever they want, but right now, folks, the only place you will be able to get Dirty Keto is on amazoncom, so please go there. They did not allow me to do a pre-order or any of that good stuff, but you can go there and get the movie. When is this coming out? Do you know?
Speaker 3:we're scheduled for June 18th if it's not out by then, I will commit Harry Caray. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it should not out by then. I will commit Harry Carey. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it should be out by then.
Speaker 1:All right, very good. Well, I watched it today. It was. I had two thoughts. Number one I already mentioned why did Vinny feel the need to make this? I already mentioned why did Vinny feel the need to make this. But the second thought was this is an extraordinarily well-done show, a very worthwhile use of my time. I spent an hour sitting and watching it. You didn't say much of anything that I hadn't already heard before, but, like so many things in life, there comes a moment when it all clicks, and there were. I had a few of those, um, where it all just kind of clicked, so I can recommend it wholeheartedly In fact I recommend it wholeheartedly to to uh uh my circle of friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I certainly uh yeah, certainly.
Speaker 2:Second, I think it was very well done. Uh, like I said, I think it said a lot of things that maybe many of us have been thinking about. Uh, you know in this space, uh, but needed to be said uh, so that we can make some changes. And uh, I hope it does get people thinking a little bit about you know again, just because something makes claims, we really do need to question those claims and be a little bit more skeptical, perhaps when it comes to kind of our food in general.
Speaker 1:You know what? The thought just occurred to me, and I've said this in other places but there's got to be pushback from folks that say, well, I got to trust somebody. You know you can't do your own research on everything, you have to trust somebody. And ultimately, I think we got into this mess that we're in not because we chose to trust people but, more accurately, because we were persuaded to stop taking responsibility for our own health individually. We abdicated our responsibility to ourselves for our own health, and I think the bottom line is it all starts with you got to take responsibility for your own health.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, look, I mean when people do you know we hear this all the time. You know, look, I mean when people do you know we hear this all the time. I'll hear people say, well, I've done my research, which means you went to Google and read stuff on the first page where most of the stuff is sponsored. And I challenged a friend one time. I said I think I always use something that's really not controversial, like I said, motorcycles. You know that. You know motorcycles are bad for your health because you can crash and be paralyzed or be killed instantly. And I'm a guy who rode motorcycles my entire life until I turned 52. And I promised my wife I'm done right, so I made it that far without being maimed. But that's not the truth. Behind a lot of people who I rode with over the years and I would always say anytime you walk into a business with a motorcycle helmet in your hand, the first thing they say is hey, do you ride? No, I just like to walk around with this helmet and this big leather jacket because it makes me look cool. Of course I ride. And the first thing they'll say is yeah, my friend died riding. You know, it's like everyone tells you this while you're riding a motorcycle. But if you went to Google, I can within one page. I can Google myself correct by saying motorcycles are very bad for your health. I can Google myself correct by saying motorcycles are very bad for your health. And then, if I wanted to, I can Google myself correct by saying motorcycles are the healthiest way to get around.
Speaker 3:And you know, you can go either way on any subject and get exactly. You can make up a truth, but there's a universal truth. That's out there, that's in the middle, and that's the part where people get hung up. They don't want the. They don't want the real truth, they just want to be right. And Google machine is a great way that you can make yourself right, no matter what you're talking about. You want to be a vegan? You can make yourself right. You want to be a carnivore? You can make yourself right.
Speaker 3:My favorite is we were talking about paleo, or I was talking about paleo earlier. You know the paleolithic diet is pretty good, right, it's what people ate back in the paleolithic era. Great, well, what happens? People go hang on. Were honeybees around back in the paleo? Yeah, I think honeybees were around. That means we can eat honey, right, you can Google yourself right on anything, and that's the part people miss out on. They think they're doing research and they're not. They're reading what Google wants you to read, and remember what I just said. I'm censored on those things, right? They don't want people to see my message because it doesn't follow the trajectory of what they want you to do. And who they are, I don't know, right, but if you're not part of the they program, you're everyone else and you don't count.
Speaker 1:I think we've got our mic drop moment and we've been going probably a little longer. We're keeping you probably a little longer than we should have. In fact, I'm quoting you right now. Google is designed to allow anyone to prove their own point of view. I love that, All right. Well, as always, we'll make sure that contact information for Vinny Tortorich shows up in the show notes. If his latest documentary, Dirty Keto, actually drops prior to the date that this show is published, we'll have a link to that as well. Bill, any last words?
Speaker 2:Just keep up the great work, Vinny. We're all better because of it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, sir, and thank you guys for having me on. This is always great.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate your work as well, and it's just fun to have you back.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Jack.
Speaker 1:All right Well for Vinny Tortorich and Dr Philip Ovedia. This has been stay off my operating table and we'll talk to you next time.