The secrets of our own homes | Jami Durham of the Galveston Historical Foundation

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Galveston Playground of the Southwest by Dwayne Jones & Jami Durham

Jami Durham, an accomplished and award-winning professional with a diverse skill set. With a wealth of experience in research, writing, event planning, website and social media management, publication production, public relations, and office management, Jami brings a remarkable depth of expertise to the table. As a co-author of the acclaimed book "Galveston Playground of the Southwest"  and as a consultant and editor for "African Americans of Galveston", Jami has delved deep into Galveston's history and culture. Their work provides valuable insights into the city's past and celebrates the contributions of African Americans to Galveston's vibrant tapestry. Jami is not only a knowledgeable researcher and writer but also an active participant in the community. Having graduated from Leadership Galveston in the class of 2000 and served as a past Landmark Commissioner for the City of Galveston from 1999 to 2004, she possesses a unique perspective on the city's landmarks and their significance.

Resources discussed in this episode:
The Portal to Texas History: https://library.unt.edu/digital-projects-unit/collections/portal-texas-history/

Galveston Texas History Center:
https://www.galvestonhistorycenter.org/
 
Galveston Historical Foundation:
https://www.galvestonhistory.org/

Transcript

I have access to some confederate battle maps that are  an aerial looking down, and you can see the footprint of buildings that were here during  📍 the war.

was  pre-fabricated in the state of Maine.

Disassembled shipped down here, used as ballast on a ship. It would've been offloaded at the port, put on wagons and taken to the side and assembled by slave  📍 labor. 

 We need to tell the stories of the real people. And that's what sparked my  📍 passion.

 Hello, and welcome to Galveston unscripted. 

 I have another fascinating episode for you today. I sit down with Jamie Durham. 

Of the Galveston historical foundation. 

And we discuss all things research. And how to find. Super interesting historical facts about your home. 

I can tell you right now, this episode is a great resource. For anyone who's purchased a home in the last few years

 and is struggling to find historical information. 

Now, normally you can go straight to Jamie at the Galveston historical foundation. And she can dig all of this information up for you. But we go over a few tactics that you can use to figure out tons of information   on your home or historic building.   

If this is your first time listening to Galveston unscripted, please check us out on apple, Spotify, wherever you find podcasts. And on social media, we are on Facebook. Instagram Tik TOK. 

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You name it? Go check us out, give us a follow.  It really helps us spread the word of the fascinating history here on Galveston island. And if you have a second, please hop over to wherever you are listening to this podcast and give us a review. 

It helps other people find Galveston unscripted and helps us spread the good word of the history of this island. 

Without further ado, let's hop right into this episode with Jamie Durham of the Galveston historical foundation.   

Okay, gimme, gimme another one. Testing, testing, testing.  

Hear you loud and clear.

 I found myself in this really weird spot where, what started as a a fun audio tour project in my closet, 

 Where I've been teaching myself how to tell stories and putting it out in the world and getting thousands of people to hear it,  and it was just this passion that I was like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out how to make this work.

So, and 

you know, historic preservation societies all over the country have finally recognized that bridge that you're talking about, audio, podcast, social media, that's our bridge to the younger generation so we need to connect with a younger generation to keep everything 

relevant.

Back to our conversation we had at the warehouse where they used to move houses all the time. They did. 

I mean, that was a thing. Mm-hmm. The early immigrants to our city who decided to settle here might have the knowledge and wherewithal and, and money to throw a two-room house together, but they didn't have the money to buy the lot to put the house on.

So they'd lease the lot and they'd build their house, and if they lost their lease to that lot, they'd just hook the house up and move it to the next house. Oh my God. Ellen Beasley, whom I worship in a door she told me one time that there's a. I think she found it as she was researching her alleys and back buildings book.

There's a ad in the 1870 newspapers and it's like stolen small house vicinity of, and so someone had just in the 1870s stolen a house. Oh my gosh. Which actually did happen here in the 1980s. U T M B had cleared a bunch of land and this story came to me from Sally Wallace. U T M B had cleared off a bunch of land for a surface level parking lot, and they had lined up three craftsmen type bungalows on harbor side.

And a gentleman had made arrangements to buy them and he was gonna move them to b Oliver. And so they were already up on their skids and the morning they got there to move them, there were only two. One of them was gone. And Oh my God. I was like, where did it go? Well, Who 

knows The Great 

House Heist. Yeah.

 The 18 99, 1900 city directory. I think there's like 13 house movers listed. Yeah. John Edgar, of course, was the most most well known. He, not only did he move houses, he raised houses. So he raised a lot of 'em after the storm. Mm-hmm. During the grade raising. 

Well, Jamie, I think some of that's gonna make it in the final episode.

Well, okay. That was great. Well, you wanna hop right into it? Sure. Let's go.  All right. Well, Jamie thank you so much for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. I've heard you, like everyone talks about you when they're doing research on their historical homes and buildings.

Here you are the person to call and go to. So could you introduce yourself for the audience and tell us a little bit about yourself? Well, 

sure. My name is Jamie Durham and I moved to Galveston in 1997. I worked for the school district one year, and then in 98 I was hired by Galveston Historical Foundation.

I have been with them ever since. I've served in several capacities. I, I initially was hired to be a. Private rentals manager to rent to the public, our historic buildings, and organize their, lots of weddings, anniversary parties. And from there they moved me up into the Historic properties division.

I was the assistant director and there I put my journalism background to use and I began to research and write thematic tours for the house museums. And I loved it. And then I, kit and I transitioned again and they moved me into events and that's when I began to research and write our annual homes tour catalog.

And since then, my focus has shifted mainly to. Researching our historic building inventory, the people who built them, our cultural history. I work closely with our African American Heritage Committee. I've assisted them with the publication of their two books. I co-authored a book in 2013 with Dwayne.

Dwayne and I and two of our members of our committee are working on a book right now. So, I am one of the lucky people who get up every morning and look forward to coming to work. I learn something every day. And I just love what I do. And I, although I do other things, I administer our w e a one Gulf Coast Windstorm Exemption Program for the foundation and our 1900 storm survivor plaque program.

And I assist development and membership and museums and wherever I'm needed, other duties as assigned. It is our historic building inventory and the people who built each house that those are the stories I love discovering. 

Yeah. So if you need anything researched about your house, you are the person to call.

Yes. But there are a lot of people out there who are capable of doing it on their own, and I don't mind providing guidance. Mm-hmm. As I hope to do today. It's, it, there's a lot of avenues that you can go down. 

I watched one of your presentations, I believe it was the one you did last year with the Rosenberg.

Mm-hmm. And it was so insightful to see that there are probably 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 different avenues you can go to just find like little tidbits of information and then tie them into the rest of the stuff. So it's, it's funny you would think there's one place you can go. No, but there's not. But you've, you've. You are the one place you can go, like, call Jamie.

She'll put it all together. 

So, but really I just stand on the shoulders of people like Ellen Beasley. Mm-hmm. And Margaret Doreen and Walter Grover and the many historians who came before me and they had the hard work. My work is so much easier because so much has been digitized now where they had to actually go to courthouses and go to libraries and go through newspapers, through the old microfilm.

All of that has been digitized and some of it is digitized through subscription services. But, you know, kudos to your public library system. If you have a public library card, a lot of these subscription databases you can access from your public library portal or from your pub public library itself. So, 

Yeah.

Extremely valuable. Yes. And, and I, I love what you said about standing on the shoulders of people that have come before you, who really had the, the tough work. Who had to go into the archives, go in and, and sift through all this information. They did. They did. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. So, one thing I definitely wanted to talk to you about was the, I guess mislabeling of years dates, names and things, just kind of across the boards.

For instance, when we purchased our house we were told, you know, it was built in 1900, but we show up there and it has the 1900 storm survivor plaque. And we're like, oh, was it built right after, or right before the storm, or what is it? And then we dove into it a little bit more, and then it's like, well built in 1886.

And then you look at the house and you're like, well, there are additions on here that the main structure of the house actually seems to be much, much older than 1886. So it's kind of one of those things where, what here was this house actually built the main structure of the house. So one, one thing I wanted to ask you, I guess, is how do you sift through and verify the actual year a home was built?

So when I first, if you give me a building to turn upside down, as I say, the very first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to the central appraisal district and I'm gonna look up your legal description. I'm gonna look up your lot and your block. I'm not gonna go off of the number that's adhered to the front of your building because addresses evolved in Galveston.

So I'm gonna get your lot and your block, and from there I'm gonna turn to the old city. Insurance records, which the originals are all at the Galveston and Texas History Center at Rosenberg Library. But because of our partnership, I have copies, so they're right behind me. So I'll pull the insurance record and a lot of times the insurance record will say built 1886, but it might be a 1920 record.

Hmm. So in that case, I dig deeper to see if I can find an older record. Sometimes it might say, built 1886 and it's an 1886 record and it says 10 days from completion. Mm. Those are gold. Mm-hmm. And those will tell me, those will tell you. Just backing up real quick, you, if you pull, if you pull a record and it's a 1904 record and it says The house was built in 1886 and there's a name of an owner, Don't presume that that's the original owner.

Mm-hmm. You've gotta work it backwards. Mm-hmm. So anyway I work it backwards through county deed records, through real estate transfers that are posted in newspaper archives and through real estate transfers that are posted on the individual record. But when you get your record and say in your case, Did you have an older record that said it was built in 1886?

That record was probably covered in scribbles. Mm-hmm. And just all kinds of craziness. So that record is gonna tell you if you know how to decipher it, what the original building dimensions were. The original number of rooms, if there are additions. Usually down in the bottom in the remarks the building inspector has written and dated and has noted a two room edition or has noted house wired for electric lights.

Mm-hmm. Or Damaged by 1900. Storm rebuilt. Mm-hmm. Which opens a whole nother avenue. Yep. So, but yeah, that's where I start Uhhuh. I start with your legal description and that insurance record, I look at the date on that insurance record and if it's true to the year of the house, it's gold. Mm-hmm.

If it's not, then I have to work it backward, backwards through the county deed records. And the way I do that is say it says Charles Smith is the owner of the house in 1920, but it's an 1886 house. I take Charles Smith's name and I go to the county deed records. Mm-hmm. And I look for him to become the grantee of a building that's lot three block.

And I see who that seller is. Mm-hmm. Then I take that seller's name and I just keep going backwards, backwards, and backwards until, 

and so you hit the ground zero Who barn until I 

heck ground zero. And you can trace your lot. Lots and, and these blocks, you can trace them back to 1839. Mm-hmm. When the Galveston City company began selling our Lots, city lots and the outlets, which I love the outlets I live on Avenue.

That doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean that you've got a house that was built in 1839 that just, you know, there were probably several buildings on your lot, which leads you to the maps. 

Can you tell us a little bit about the outlets? Because I live on Avenue M right on the edge, I the outlet, so it's always 

fascinating.

So imagine in your mind's eye when the city was laid out, the highest portion of the city was the Broadway Ridge, eight feet above C level that became Broadway Avenue. J ran runs east to west, so all of the streets that ran east to west were alphabet streets. Harborside is actually Avenue a. Strandis B market here is D, so on, so forth.

All the streets that ran North South were numbered streets and all of the even numbered streets in the early days of the city, dead ended at Avenue M. Hmm. Because everything south of Avenue M was the considered suburbia. Mm-hmm. These were the outlets where if you bought in the outlets, you were buying the equivalent of four city blocks.

So fast forward, the Civil War ends. It's the era of reconstruction in the 1870s. Galveston is booming. We need room for expansion. Expansion. The people who own the outlets begin selling off portions and to divide the outlets north into EastWest tabs. These even numbered streets that dead ended at Avenue M were carried.

South to the Bay. Mm-hmm. And to divide them north, south, the half alphabet streets came in. So that's why when you get south of Avenue M, then you begin to see m and a half in and a half, oh and a half, et cetera. But outlaws were the equivalent of four city blocks. Michelle Menard's Outlaw is the perfect example.

The house exists today on a little more than two acres, I guess, but it originally, his homestead went from 33rd street all the way back to 35th Street, and then it went from Avenue N to Avenue O. Oh, wow. 

Yeah. So his house, so Michelle Menard 1838 home, right? Oldest house on the island. And it wasn't actually built here in Galveston, it 

was pre-fabricated in the state of Maine.

Disassembled shipped down here, used as ballast on a ship. It would've been offloaded at the port, put on wagons and taken to the side and assembled by slave labor. 

Fascinating. How, 

how common it was that Samuel May Williams house was also done the same way as was Thomas McKinney's house. Well, these are the earliest houses.

The 1830s, 1840s, early 1840s. We're a frontier. We don't, it's, you know, the, our lumber is being imported. Everything's being imported at that time. So I think it was more common than we realize. Absolutely. When I, and then that just evolved into kit 

houses. That's right. That's right. I don't even know what direction to go now.

Do I go back far the 1830s or, or to the kit houses because, you know, I, I love to describe Galveston in the, you know, early 18 hundreds as this Barron sandbar, because that's really what it was when people arrived here, there was no wood. The oak trees are relatively recent, right? So we didn't have wood and lumber, and you didn't have the East Texas lumber really flowing into this area.

Not yet first. Yet. Yet 

of some of your earliest buildings here were constructed from lumber of shipwrecks. 

That would've been Jean La time, or before

around the same time. 

Mm-hmm. Wow. Do you, okay, so be when, when you're pulling records before the Galveston City company was established in 1839, are there any like, I guess unknown records that we really don't have access to 

before?

Is that I don't think many records of that time period existed. If they are, you're, you fall, they fall under, you can find some through the Briscoe Center of American History. Remember that was, we were Mexican territory then. So, Mexico had declared us an official port in 1821 I believe it was 1821 when we official officially became a port for Mexico when under Mexican rain. And I think Stephen F. Austin came here in 1821 on his first excursions. 

That's so, it's so cool to think back, you know? So I know you brought some notes. Is there anything you wanted to definitely cover and dive 

into today?

No, just as, as I direct friends and, and acquaintances and researching their buildings we start with that insurance record. And then you noted that your house clearly has additions from that insurance record. You can often decipher those additions and what years they were added. And to reinforce that you can turn to what are called the Sandborn fire insurance maps.

I personally, they're available on many websites. Mm-hmm. And many Many databases. I personally like to pull them from the Peri Casta map collection at the University of Texas because they're in full color. And I think they're beautiful. They are gorgeous, and I mean, they will, if the building material is noted by different colors.

But you can look at the footprint of your house as it evolved over years. The first maps for Galveston were drawn in 1877, and they were just this downtown about a 10 block area. And then it expanded in 1885 to include most of our central business district. And then by 1889, the East End Residential San Jino those were included.

Then it, we did 'em again in 1899 and branched out a little further. And then the 1912 maps come after the 1900 storm, and you see how much is missing when you compare 1890 a block, an 1899 block to a 1912 block. And then in 1947, the 1912 maps were updated, and then in 1985, the maps were updated again.

Wow. Yeah, I 

mean, it's, it's crazy to go back so I can, if you're, if if Sager in the East End or San Jack, I can pretty much, we can pluck your footprint from 1889 forward, if we suspect it was here during the Civil War. I have access to some confederate battle maps that are the same concept as a sandborn, an aerial looking down, and you can see the, out, the footprint of buildings that were here during the war.

So we also have 

those, I would love to see those maps because it's, it's so cool to kind of be roaming through the east end or anywhere on the island, and you kind of can tell, or you'll read a historical marker. This house was built in the 1850s and you know it was there. Mm-hmm. During the, so you 

have those, those, we have a Confederate we have two confederate maps.

1 18 63 and 1 18 65. Mm-hmm. And then you have the other most beautiful maps are the bird's eye maps. Yes. The, so you had an 1871 BirdEye Dunn. You also had an 1885 Bird's Eye Dunn. And the 1885 Bird's eye has an overlay of the fire zone, the 40 blocks that were burned in 85. And then another resource it's a crazy resource that I discovered at the library in 1912.

A man named Uncle Frank went up in a hot air balloon and he took these aerials all over the island in 1912. And so you can access them from the Galveston and Texas History Center. You just have to go through, but you can often find. An image, an aerial image of your block, and get a high enough res of that, and you can zoom in on your block.

But yeah, just go to the library and ask for Uncle Frank's hot air balloon aerials. I love 

that.  I love the aerial view maps and seeing, you know, kind of, you know, how I identify the locations.

Usually some of, some of the taller buildings, but usually the churches you'll see like the, the steeps steeples of the churches, like Oh, mm-hmm. They're, there's St. Mary's there or there's the Presbyterian church. So that's how 

you can also date your downtown by the library. If you don't see the library, you know, that's before 1904.

That's right. 

That's right. So you can also date the photos by some of the. The institutional large buildings. Mm-hmm. 

So what are some telltale signs? So I started my whole history journey giving tours in the East end of Galveston. And one thing I've noticed about after the fire of 1885, which obviously destroyed 40 over 40 city blocks, 

great buildings, king 

collaboration, so completely, you know, destroyed that section of the city.

That's kind of what brought rise to a lot of the Victorian era architecture in that specific little area. 

Right? Well, right after the 1885 fire a architect named Alfred Mueller arrives on the island. Nicholas Clayton has already established himself. As the premier architect you would say. He had, he had arrived in the 1870s.

Mueller comes in 1886 right after the fire, and he begins to design a lot of the buildings that are being replaced in that fire zone, like Troop Castle and oh, there's several others. I just can't call out two 

beautiful ones on post Office Street. Yeah, gorgeous. The 

Rakel twins. Mm-hmm. Yes. And there are many historians that think if Alfred Mueller had lived longer, he probably would've rivaled Clayton, if not exceeded him.

Mul died of typhoid fever in 9 18 96. He had designed our beautiful city hall, a very elaborate building that's set over here in Market Plaza. There's a subject marker there. He won out over Clayton and won the Victorian era courthouse. Mm-hmm. That's long gone. So he was very talented. 

Are there some telltale signs as you walk around the island, like maybe the, the window designs or door or, or anything where you could say, oh, that was pre 1880s or that was 1850s?

Probably. Any telltale signs that you can give us? 

Well, your Victorian era houses are gonna be a bit more elaborate and fanciful turn of the century brings an awakening of the revival periods and things begin to come a little, become a little more restrained, I guess you would say. Although that's not always the case.

There are many transitional Victorians that were built after the storm. Then you have the rise of the arts and crafts movement and the bungalows you're moving into the twenties and twenties. I guess windows is my telltale sign. I look at windows, the divided light windows are older than solid, one over one windows.

And then of course, every now and then you run across a, for lack of a better word, a a Carla house, a 1960s ranch that was built after Carla. And many people think they like stick out in our districts like sore thumbs. But as a 1960s baby, these are historic now in their own ride. Any building over 50 years old can be considered historic, which kind of leads me into, after clients come to me and they have me research their buildings and sometimes I write city landmark applications for them or state landmark applications.

I always encourage them to get a w e a one exemption. If you're within the six historic districts, your building is protected. If you're in what we call an unprotected neighborhood and you want to preserve the historic integrity and material of your building, like your old windows or doors or trim or siding, a w a one exemption will do that for you.

And that's that stays with your building and perpetuity. Doesn't matter if you get it and then a year later you sell it. Mm-hmm. This building, these new owners can maintain that historic material and the historic integrity of the house. 

Absolutely. I, I get that question a lot about the, the Carla homes, the mid-century style, 19 si or sixties homes that are usually brick and much smaller than these Victorian era homes.

But you're right. You know, I, for during Carla, a lot of tornadoes blew through and just would wipe out a whole city block. So you would, you know, for instance, what comes to mind is kind of right behind the Bryan on 20th and avenue m and a half. Mm-hmm. There's a whole little section of mid-century homes and then you can actually see helicopter footage post Carla of where the tornado had taken a path all the way through.

And you wonder, why are these, why were these homes? Why were the previous homes torn down? Or why were they gone? You know? And the Midc centuries built mainly because you can 

pretty much tell in talking to hurricane to members of the community who were here during Carla, it was something like 15 or 16 tornadoes that Carla spawned and they kind of bounced across the island.

And you can kind of tell where they landed and bounced. Mm-hmm. Cuz in their place or these little. These little 1960s ranches, which are now historic in their own right. And we in fact have a intern working for us at GF right now that's beginning a mid mod survey of all of these 

buildings. That's, it's so funny, you know, growing up here in the nineties and seeing like those, I guess they were newer homes.

They're only 30 years old when, when I was born, so it's not, they weren't that old. Now it's like, oh yeah, they are good. I guess they, now, they're a hot commodity. Yeah, they are. They are probably more energy efficient. Right? Probably. 

And if they're not in the, you know, in an area prone to flooding, 

So most of your research or when people are asking about hey, can you research my home?

Most of that happened. Most of the stuff you're researching is on the eastern portion of the island, or do you do stuff on the West End as well? Oh no. 

Well, you have less records once you get past 53rd Uhhuh, but I have researched houses out there. I have to maintain, I have to rely entirely on city deed records.

Mm-hmm. And newspaper archives and census records maps don't go past 53rd. The city limit was 53rd. Mm-hmm. I mean, that was it. So it is more challenging, but I've done it. I've also been called upon to research buildings in Texas City. Oh, wow. 

Oh, so you're expanding. You you got the whole Galveston County, you're gonna, 

one of my closest friends at the city calls me the building Whisper.

Yes, yes. I'll say go call the building Whisper. But yeah, most people who come to me and want me to research their building they specifically want a, they want porch candy as we call the plaques. Oh, yes. Porch candy. Yes. They want they want either a 1900 storm survivor plaque, or they want me to roll it into a city of Galveston, landmark plaque.

And that's pretty that's a pretty fun and easy thing to do. Mm-hmm. State plaques are a little more complicated and competitive, and there are, there are two state markers that you see around town. They're identical and many people get them confused. If you see a marker that says the John and Margaret Smith house, then that building is an R T L A recorded Texas historic Landmark, and that building is protected by the state.

If the marker says, for example, the Olga Sam off, it just says Olga Sam off that's a subject marker to someone who lived in the building, but the building is not protected. So you have subject markers and you have rtls. I have successfully written R T H L applications. Mm-hmm. But that has become a more competitive field.

The state has reduced the number that they're approving every year, and they have added a prerequisite that you must find a historic image Oh, to accompany the application. Mm-hmm. Which leads me into genealogy and ancestry.com. Heritage Quest. As I research the buildings, I get far deeper into the bu, the people who built them I try and find builders.

The majority of our historic building inventory is not architecturally designed. It's not by Muller, it's not by Clayton, it's not by Mackenzie or any of our others. The majority of our historic building inventory, it came from builders pattern books. Hmm. But you can often find the builders, you can find the contracts between the owners and the builders.

And pretty soon you can become acquainted enough with builders that you begin to recognize their forms around town. And you're like, ah, I bet that's a Christian wolfer. Oh fascinating. So anyway, yeah. With rtls, when I have to, F find a historic image here Lately, I've had success on ancestry.com Uhhuh as I research the people who lived in the house, particularly if you have a family that lived in your house for 10, 20 years.

As genealogy has become more popular and people all over the country are building family trees Yeah. And pages dedicated to people. You might find Joe and Margaret Smith's kids mm-hmm. In their Easter clothes lined up on the front porch of your house in a photo taken in 1908. So, 

and that 

counts as the historic photo that count for the, that as a, a historic photo only has to be 50 or more.

Oh, perfect. Yeah. Yeah. 

Which, so if I can find your house in the Habs survey in the 1960s or 1930s. Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, there's a, a photo of our house right after the storm, all the destruction on the street. Mm-hmm. And then it's not a perfectly frontward photo, but you can see it really just kind of the angle.

So, and that's would, would that count or is that Yes. Okay. 

The Galveston and Texas History Center. The premier archive on the island. 

And there's actually two archives at Rosenberg. But if you're researching a building, you want the Galveston and Texas History Center, or a person, or a subject or they're. They're wonderful. And a lot of people dunno this, they're the Galveston Historical Foundation began in 1871 as the historical society to preserve the important documents and papers that had accumulated here during the Civil War, blah, blah, blah.

And then fast forward to the 1950s when we incorporated to become the foundation to focus on buying and selling endangered real estate. All of those papers and everything that we had accumulated were given to Rosenberg for library, which formed the basis of the Galveston and Texas History Center.

But they've done an excellent job digitizing photographs, both 1900 storm photos or pre mm-hmm. Storm photos. And you can find those on their website very easily. The next shout out I would give them, Are our Galveston city directories, which I love, and they have, they are slowly scanning and digitizing those directories and then putting them on the portal to Texas History portal's.

Another place where you can find newspapers of Galveston and, and old photos sometimes. But, so those city directories come in handy when you're researching your buildings too, especially if you want to know what Joe Smith did or how big his family was, or what his wife's name was, or They're just, I, I love them.

I love 

the city directories because you'll see, you know, you'll look up your address, let's say early 19 hundreds and you'll see, okay, well I knew this, these two people were here. And then you find other names in the house as well. You're like, oh wait, was this house a duplex? Or they had renters in the back or at the same address.

It's kind of, kind of cool to, you know, see if that works. Those 

first 10 years after the storm, a lot of people took on borders and rumors because there was such a housing problem. But you do see the evolution of the big houses being divided into duplexes or apartments. And in 1908, the city directories began to cross reference.

So beginning in 1908, you can go to the back of the directory and you can just look up your address and see who's there. Mm-hmm. Prior to that, you have to. Get it in an engine to where you can search your address. But that just leads me back to your address might not have been your address. Yep. In the 1880s, it might have been something else.

So it's a chase, it's a hunt. It's, it's like I'm a history detective. Join me in this search. You can be a history detective too. Just keep digging, don't presume. Yep. 

It always fascinates me that, you know, here we are 2023 and you would think that we would know everything there is to know about these homes, about the people who live there, about the addresses, about was this home moved.

You would think we would have all that kind of together, but really we don't. It's all, it is an adventure. It is a treasure hunt. When 

you, when we talk about the houses that were moved I'd say seven outta 10 times, those historic insurance records are gonna tell me, That they removed, I might see the lot scratched out in a different lot above it.

And that block's scratched out and the different blocks above it. And when I get out my magnifying glass and start reading the remarks at the bottom, it might say, move to this location. And you know, 1890 or a lot of 'em got moved around after the storm moved to this location, 19 0 4, 19 0 5. A lot of people don't realize how many houses had to be moved out of the way of the dredge canals that helped raise the island.

And then sometimes they got moved back. Sometimes they got left in the outlaws. And that's why I tell people, just because you're in that area of mass destruction doesn't mean you don't have a 1900 storm survivor. Mm-hmm. If I can prove it was moved there and where it was moved from. 

Yeah, it always surprises me cuz I'll walk pretty close to seawall on the pretty far east end in front of Broadway.

And, you know, most of that area was completely wiped out during the storm, right? Mm-hmm. So almost all, all of it, 

you'll see a clean sweep is the newspapers report. 

Yeah. And you'll see those homes and you'll see 1900 storm survivor plaques and don't, you know, be deceived. That house wasn't there. It wasn't there.

It was definitely 

there, it wasn't. And for you to get a 1900 storm survivor plaque, I have vetted it really thoroughly and have connected its original location Yeah. To that current location. Mm-hmm. But it can be 

done. Awesome. That's really cool. So what are some of the most surprising things that you have come across in your research?

Anything that really stuck out to you and you're like, wow, I would've never guessed that. 

There's a house out at Avenue. Q, it's on Avenue Q and it's in the forties, it's almost to the fifties. The owner called me one time and he said I have like these concrete walls behind the frame. We were doing repairs and behind the frame are these concrete walls.

And long story short, as I dug around on the house, I found a contract between the original owner and an architect named Rudolph Mudra. And when I turned to the city directories, Rudolph Mudra was an architect who came here in 1910 to over 1909, pardon me, to oversee construction of the hotel Galvez for the architecture firm that had.

Built that. And then he had evolved into his own business of designing houses. But his city directory ads noted that he was a concrete specialist, so he specialized in concrete foundations and concrete walls. And so, this was a house that he built for a gentleman before the 19 hundreds store, or pardon me, after the 19 hundreds storm before this area had become developed.

And its pure speculation, which I typically will warn people against at the time it gets wrapped in frame. It's a time that expansion is moving mm-hmm. West and maybe the new owner thought this concrete house was ugly, so let's wrap it in some frame and paint it. And so, I would've never. When I drive by that house, and I just discovered this within six months, but when I drive by that house and look at it, I would never imagine that there were concrete walls uhhuh under the frame.

That thing's a bunker. 

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

And she's a storm and she, you know, she's survived many storms out there after. Yeah. Her being built and when she was built, the grade raising hadn't come that far. Mm-hmm. So, part of her below ground basement was swallowed up, but with that magnifying glass and that insurance record, I could see that that below ground basement was five five rooms that supported a furnace and a laundry and a servant's quarters and Wow.

Yeah. Wow. That is awesome. That's really cool. I was gonna say, and we know it wasn't moved cuz it was made of concrete, right? No, it wasn't moved. 

And, you know, when he first called me, he was like, Jamie, the, you know, the neighbors told me to look and da da da. And I'm like, oh boy, anytime I get a call and it begins with, I just bought this house, and the neighbor said, oh, oh, 

yeah, yeah.

I'm, I'm not sure if it's gonna turn out to be true or if it's gonna turn out to be, you know, another addition to, as I jokingly call the moonlight and manure folder. 

Just stories, right. Stories that came up outta nowhere. And we have lots of 

stories in 

Galveston. Oh yes. Lots and lots and lots. Like the tunnels under the streets.

Oh my goodness. The first time I got the call on that, I was just flabbergasted. You want me to just tell the st Well the, yeah, please tell the one tunnels on the street. So I, I got a call that and they had gone on a Segway tour and they had been told that from. Our Premier property, 1402 Broadway Bishop's Palace, built for the Gresham family, that when the Bishop built that house, he had a tunnel built from the basement under 14th Street to Sacred Heart, so that when it rained he wouldn't get wet.

And I was like, well, there's just so much wrong with that sin that, that statement, I dunno where to start. And you know, number one, the bishop didn't build that house, the Gresham family did. And when the Gresham family built that house, the sacred heart that we know and love was not there. Sacred Heart was down at 13th and then we won't even get into the low water table and trying to tunnel around here.

It blows my mind. Some of the things I overhear walking around in the downtown area and hearing the tour guides say, I'm just like, what are you talking about? Which can be easily debunked with a Google search. 

Yes. One of my, my very first office was in the Hayloft at Ashton Villa, and I was the Reynolds manager.

So I worked Sunday, I worked Wednesday through Sundays. I was off on Mondays and Tuesdays. So on Sunday afternoons, I would just hear some crazy things. This is pre Ike when we had a lot of tour buses on the island and you could hear 'em talking and buses would pull up and I'd hear 'em tell people that Ashton Villa used to be four stories tall and that the ballroom was on the top floor.

And no, just if you're listening to me today, that is not true. 



I have been known to tell people who have called and who have taken tours like that, you know, at least it's sparked an interest mm-hmm. That they will call to try and verify.

Mm-hmm. And I will tell 'em, you know, if you really wanna know more by Galveston, a history by Dr. David McComb. Mm-hmm. That's the best history book on the island that you can 

buy. I have not read it yet. I have it sitting on my shelf. It's on my, my, it's the 

very best. I mean, you know it, you have Galveston, a history by Gary Cartwright, who was an excellent journalist for Texas Monthly, and then you have Galveston, a History of the Island by Dr.

David McComb, and both are very enjoyable reads. The difference is that Dr. McComb footnotes and documents everything he says, and you can. Go further into his footnotes in bibliography and continue to learn. Mr. Cartwright's book is a very entertaining read, but nothing is documented. Mm-hmm. And nothing is sourced.

Mm-hmm. And a lot of it is speculation. 

So I don't, I don't know if you know this with my podcasts and the audio tour, the short ones. What I do, and I'm really glad you mentioned most of the resources I've linked in there today, but for almost everything I discuss I link a source to that. So usually Galveston, Texas History Center portal to Texas history, even a GF webpage, sometimes portal.

Yeah. So I kind of like cite my sources through there. Some things are just kind of so well known. I don't, and I'll just be like, that's evident. Or there are 

a lot of myths that have grown really strong legs. And with those mm-hmm. You just. Yeah, you kind of have to just roll your eyes. Yeah, 

exactly. Okay, so this will be the last question.  What are some of your favorite aspects of Galveston history? 

Oh, that's very easy.

My favorite aspect of Galveston history are the regular people like you and me who built our city and who made it what it is, and who. Didn't give up in 1875 when Racer Storm flew across the island and they didn't give up in 1900 or 1909 or 1915. And so I think my favorite story about Galveston is our immigrant story.

Whether it's our European immigrants who came by choice, or our black community citizens who were forced to migrate here and who stayed here after emancipation. So those are the stories I like the most. Learning the stories about the people who stayed and Built our buildings that we still, yeah, inhabit and Yeah, I think it's our 

immigrant story.

Mm-hmm. You mentioned, you know, as you're doing this research you get into the ancestry aspect of it and you, you go down the rabbit holes of the people and it resonates with me because it's the people's stories, like one person's story, it tells so much more of a, a fuller story. It makes it rich and, and 

I have, have to, I have to credit the leadership and the guidance of not only our executive director, but my mentor, my friend Dwayne Jones.

It was Duane and Denise Alexander when he brought her in. And, you know, for it sounds crass, it was. It was their leadership that said everybody's tired of hearing the stories about the dead rich white guys. Mm-hmm. That built these big houses. We need to tell the stories of the real people. And that's what sparked my passion.

And I can just one quick example if you are a Homes Tour fan. A historic homes tour fan we used to name the houses after the Man, you know, the Louis Mark's house, the Charles Spencer house. And it was under Dwayne's leadership that we began acknowledging the women who helped build these houses and take care of these houses.

And yeah, it's the people. It's the 

people. Would that change the name of the Moody Mansion? 

No, because well, The true name of the Moody Mansion is the Narcissa Willis House. That's right. And she was a single woman. So, even they will refer to it as the Willis Moody House. Oh, 

do they? Okay. 

Willis Moody house, Mr.

Moody came in and bought that. Mr. Moody the second came in and bought that after the 19 hundreds storm. He got a great deal. Isn't Yeah, it's really a true story. We'll end on this. It's a keeping up with the Joneses kind of a story. Narcissus Willis' sister was Magnolia Sealy. She was married to George Sealy and George built Magnolia, that fabulous house.

McKim meet and white open gates at 25th and Broadway and Narcissa was jealous. And so Narcissus spent every penny she had to build her house, and then the 1900 storm rolled in and the house was damaged, and she was left without an ability to repair it. And that's when William Moody Jr. Came in and according to Moody Archives, bought it for 5 cents on the dollar.

Oh my 

God. Oh my God. I cannot believe 

that. So yes, that's the Willis Moody Mansion. 

Oh my God. Yeah. 5 cents on a dollar wouldn't even, I mean, wouldn't even cover the gold in the gold plated sea. Not plated it, but gold painted ceilings. But you 

know, 

it's stories of these people and things like that, that that I guess deepen your respect for the buildings.

Yes. 

And for Absolutely. I love that. Well, Jamie, thank you so much. We gotta, we gotta get together again. Okay. This is great. We, I mean, we've gotta go down some deep rabbit holes with people, with events and all of that. I think this was a great way to kind of give it an overview of what you do and what, and how you do your research.

Well, thank 

you for having me. When you first asked me, I was terrified. And now I realize I've just sat here and just made myself at home and talked your 

ear off. That's exactly what we're here for. I mean, you know, some, I, I have to tell you some of my favorite conversations or when you just kind of go off on, on the tangents and, and talk about like, the really cool stuff that happens not only in Galveston, but all over the place.

And I was like, you know what? We really need to record some of these things and, and put it out there because that, that's really what I think people are interested in. And they like the banter, they like the tangents, they like all that. So it works. Well, thank you 

for letting me banter in tangent. Of 

course, of course.

Well, thank you Jamie. I appreciate it. Thank you. 

I hope you enjoyed this episode 

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