Exploring Yaupon: North America’s Only Native Caffeinated Plant with Sepp Haukebo

Watch this episode on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/AkEvK8AT3uI

I sit down with Sepp Haukebo and explore one of North America's only Native Caffeinated plants that can be found right here on Galveston Island. Yaupon Holly has been used as a stimulant for thousands of years in North America and Yaupon is making a comeback in the world of caffeinated beverages and products.

Information on Yaupon Holly: https://plants.usda.gov/DocumentLibrary/factsheet/pdf/fs_ilvo.pdf

Foraging Texas: https://www.foragingtexas.com/2008/08/yaupon-holly.html?m=1

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

You know, when you learn a little bit more about the conspiracy to Then like this, maybe this is what will convert people back to Yopon and replace coffee.

Speaker 2: 0:17

Welcome to Galveston unscripted.

Speaker 2: 0:19

In this episode today I sit down with sep hokobo, a scientist who has worked on fisheries and ecology projects around the United States and the Caribbean. In this episode, seponite sit down and discuss Yopon Holly, one of the United States only native caffeinated plants that could be found right here on Galveston Island. Now, for some context, seponite met for coffee and tea a few weeks ago and we sat down and started discussing Yopon Holly and sep, as a Yopon harvester and tea drinker, started to describe to me some of the conspiracy behind Yopon, and I found it fascinating and I began wondering how I could tie Yopon back to the history of Galveston Island. Well, as luck would have it, sep let me borrow a book and of course he dog-eared a few pages that specifically discussed Galveston and the Texas area. Alvar Nunez Cabez de vaca shipwrecked along the Texas coast in 1528, possibly on Galveston Island, and some of the first written accounts of Yopon being drank by the natives in this area was from Alvar Nunez Cabez de vaca in his writings later on in his life. And of course that ties the history of Yopon being drank by the natives in this area Back to Texas history.

Speaker 2: 1:30

So I invited sep to join me in the studio to discuss a little bit of the history on Yopon Holly and how it can be harvested here on Galveston Island safely and responsibly. Of course, I've linked a few resources in the description of this episode on how to safely identify and and harvest Yopon for yourself, or you could even just purchase it from some of the vendors that are selling it in our area. Either way, this is an absolutely fascinating discussion on Yopon here in Galveston and across the southeast of the United States. Without further ado, let's hop right into this episode Discussing a little bit of the history behind Yopon with sep hokubo. Welcome to Galveston. Unscripted.

Speaker 1: 2:10

But yeah, it looks great in here and the pictures set a good tone. I didn't know you were photographer. These are great. Well amateur, heavy amateur still counts.

Speaker 2: 2:20

But the the night ones actually. So that one over there and that one the bottom one over there. I Started like late last year I started going live on tiktok Okay, out of there's, just randomly. I saw like live was getting big on tiktok. I was like I'm gonna go live, walk around Galveston at night and Take night photography shots. So a lot of these were like in the downtown area and then my neighborhood so I just walk around, cool, and it was so crazy to see like 1200 people from around the country Watching a live tiktok of me walking around Galveston you know it's so crazy, but then I would post on my Instagram and it would actually drive traffic to my Instagram.

Speaker 2: 2:55

I was like, oh, I see, this is great, so you're capturing an audience and able to bring them over to a different platform. So, that's kind of what I did. And then, whenever we put the sound panels up which are sound panels back here, by the way okay, I printed out the these photos and like, all right, we're gonna put these over those. So I want to kind of cover it up a little bit cool.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Yeah, man, very cool. Have you had any like high school students in here, anything like like the ball high? No just the space is like inspirational.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Is it?

Speaker 1: 3:24

Thanks, yeah, I like seeing this would be like, all right, I could do this, you know.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Well, that means a lot man. Yeah, means a lot, it really does, because, I mean, this has been like a a dream come true, honestly.

Speaker 1: 3:34

I love. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 3:36

I get to talk about my hometown and kind of make Make something out of a small place.

Speaker 1: 3:41

Yeah, about a small thing.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Yeah, you know and really dive deep into it. So yeah, man very cool. Well, seth, thanks for coming in today, man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Yeah, I'm excited about that, yeah for sure, man.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Well, if you want, you can get more comfortable, and yeah, you know. Whatever, you can lean back a little bit if you want to. But, um, first, I, I, you have the most interesting name I have ever heard. I can never say your last name, by the way.

Speaker 1: 4:05

That's all right.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Hacobo, hacobo. Yeah, and it's sep. Yep, I've never met another sep in my life.

Speaker 1: 4:09

Yeah, I've only known of one other one. Oh really yeah, friend of my, my family back from Germany. So sep is German for Joseph. Oh really, okay, dad. His dad served in the military after World War two. My dad was born over there. His name was Joseph, and so when I came around they said we're gonna name him sep. So Geo sep. He's like the Italian version, and then Hacobo is Norwegian. That's more like family ancestry there.

Speaker 2: 4:38

Gotcha yeah, sweet man yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Yeah, when I was a kid, I mean I hated it. You know you're like ah, this is brutal. None of my teachers can pronounce anything. I got the weird name in class and then eventually you know, you grow into it and you appreciate the weirdness.

Speaker 2: 4:50

Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah Well, I'll never forget, like when I went to Anem Galveston, you were one of the scholarship advisors and Every time your email would come across. I don't know, I cannot say.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:01

Hibuko we'd be like. As a group We'd like is it Hibuko? I don't know, we can't say it, we can't read.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Of course we're at am my cousin, when he was real little teacher, was kind of stumbling and he was in first grade and she said what is your last name? And he said sound it out. That's what teachers are all like telling the kids, right? So she said haka, bow. He said good job, that's perfect yeah. Yeah, it looks scary, but once you get into it it ain't bad.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, before we get into the topic of conversation today, which is Yopon, yopon. I can never really pronounce that either you got it Just like your last name. Could you tell us a little bit about your background? Yeah where you come from and how you got to the point you're in now.

Speaker 1: 5:44

Yeah, great question. So I grew up in northern New Mexico Just with the love for the outdoors.

Speaker 1: 5:49

You know we were ice fishing, we were skiing cross-country skiing, hiking, fishing, you name it but I always loved the ocean. Anytime we traveled, we'd try and you know, just backpack and my family was Trying to do things on a budget. We'd go to a little town in Mexico and I said, you know, this is what I want to, this is what I want to do when I grow up. I want to be near the ocean, I want to study the ocean.

Speaker 1: 6:15

So I found out from some high school teachers that Texas A&M has a branch in Galveston Texas A&M Galveston. That's world-renowned for marine biology, oceanography, marine fisheries, so naturally made the hop down here. I didn't even look at east coast or west coast, it didn't really matter, because there was a great place right here in the Gulf. So I went through my undergrad and masters there, had a lot of really fun, you know, summer jobs, internship opportunities and then my degree took me to Washington DC to work on the science and policy kind of interface and then eventually made it back to the Gulf and now work on conservation in the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean basin, especially on the marine fishery side.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Awesome man, that's so cool.

Speaker 1: 7:08

Yeah, it's been a journey.

Speaker 2: 7:09

Yeah, so you're actually doing something with your degree. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Well, like they say, you know, it's a license to drive right, like it you prove that you can finish things, and there's a lot of stuff I do not remember. I mean just doing research for this podcast, I had to go back through some of the history on taxonomy and scientific names and you're like, wow, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:31

flashback 20 years ago when you're learning about this in class you're thinking, oh, scientific names are so boring. But then you start to learn how interesting they are as you get a little bit older and like we'll get into in a little bit the conspiracy that can come with some of that scientific naming.

Speaker 2: 7:47

And that's fascinating For some context of about a month and a half ago maybe. We sat down, had some coffee and you gave me this book Black Drink and you dog-eared a few pages in here that specifically talk about the Galveston area in Texas. But going through this book you start learning about this plant that grows native in this area in the southeastern United States and Texas and that is the only naturally or only caffeinated plant in North America.

Speaker 1: 8:18

Native to North America, native North America? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 8:21

And evidently you know you were mentioning to me that there was a conspiracy behind why it's named what it is today. The scientific name is what it is today. So I'm yeah, I want to get into that and like talk about some of the benefits behind this thing and how it's kind of making a resurgence now.

Speaker 1: 8:36

Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, today we'll be talking a little bit about Yopon, or Yopon Holly as a lot of folks know it. Ilex Vomitoria is the scientific name, and I got to make a note right up front. I am, you know, I'm not a botanist. I also am not a nutritionist and I can't tell you, you know, this is what looks good. Go ahead and brew it or eat it.

Speaker 1: 9:02

But Yopon itself is the Yopon berries are toxic, but the leaves you can make a terrific tea out of it and they are not emetic or the scientific word for makes you vomit. But as you can tell, there is, you know, in that scientific name, ilex Vomitoria. There's some history there. So I figured maybe I'd start off with some fun facts. Yeah, let's do it we can get to the really interesting part, yeah let's do it for sure the conspiracy behind the scientific name.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Yeah, like you said, this is one of North America's most caffeinated native plants. Depending on how you brew it, it's a little bit less caffeinated than coffee, so it's similar to like Yerba mate which is having its moment right now as well. Yerba mate is known as Ilex Paraguariensis, so it's a cousin. Yopon actually means little tree in. I had to look this up, but it's a Katowban language, which are natives based around the Appalachian plateau.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Okay okay, but like the Cherokee peoples called it their beloved tree. When Spanish colonials were visiting Florida they called it Te de Indio, the Indian tea. It was also really commonly known as Casina and for a while in England it was called South CT. South CT Kind of a rebranding right, which would be kind of a cool like Gulf of Mexico brand.

Speaker 2: 10:32

Yeah, it really would be South CT. I like that yeah good ring.

Speaker 1: 10:36

And then for a little while it even had a moment in Paris and it was called Appalachian in Parisian cafe. So all good names, right?

Speaker 2: 10:45

Yeah, how foreign and exotic.

Speaker 1: 10:49

Yeah, right, and the funny thing is, once you identify it and you start looking around, you may even see it in your backyard. You'll see it all over Galveston. You'll see it all over Central and Southeast Texas. It grows from the Carolinas down to Florida and then from Florida all the way to Central Texas.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:07

And you'll just be blown away that there, here's this incredible tea that's growing right in front of you, and I talked to some folks that growing up maybe they were in Boy Scouts or whatever it was they were always told by their parents that is toxic that will make you vomit the berries, of course, but everybody also thought the teas were dangerous.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So, yeah, there's a lot of history there. One of the things that made it such a great tea is that it doesn't have tannins, and tannins are what make tea a little bit bitter. Yeah, so I've actually, when I've been brewing it, I'll leave it and forget about it. 20 minutes later I'll come back. That would ruin any other kind of green or black tea and it's still just as good. It also has a really great flavor when you make iced tea out of it. That's actually my favorite way. It has like a little bit of a Cola flavor. So like your traditional southern black iced tea with a little bit of cola added in it. Like that cola flavor just is incredible.

Speaker 2: 12:12

I think my mouth is watering now.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Yeah, and we brought some for you to try today too.

Speaker 2: 12:18

Dude, I'm excited. I can't wait to try it, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 12:21

Another fun fact it's packed with theobromine, which is a stimulant that's naturally found in chocolate. So think about that buzz you kind of get, yeah, having a, you know, a nice dark chocolate bar. Theobromine is also a slight aphrodisiac, so don't drink too much of this in the morning, you know, wait till the evenings. It's a mood booster and it boosts energy levels, yeah, so you can really see why it was revered by so many of the native cultures around the North America. Yeah, yeah, a couple ways to prepare it. Green is really good. You can kind of dry it and then just make a green tea, but also I love to pick some, you know, sustainably around here on the island, roast it at about 400 degrees in the oven for like eight minutes. Your whole house will just start to smell incredible.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Oh wow, you go too long, though, and it will char and you'll get you know, the wife will be telling you what are you?

Speaker 2: 13:19

Yeah, what are you burning in here?

Speaker 1: 13:22

But it's kind of like coffee. You could do a light roast a dark roast. That changes the flavor, that changes, you know, the level of caffeine. So it's really fun to play around with and it's not like you're having to source coffee beans from you know another country and potentially have to pay for all that. It's just a really fun thing to experiment with.

Speaker 2: 13:40

That's crazy. You can literally grow it in your backyard. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It blows my mind.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Yeah, and you know, if you're going to forage it, I would encourage folks to check out. There's a great website called Foraging Texas. That guy actually does clinics kind of or workshops all over the state and this is one of the first places I learned about it. But he'll tell you. You know, like don't don't forage on the side of a highway. You've got all sorts of pollutants in the air.

Speaker 2: 14:05

Oh, you know you don't want to trespass.

Speaker 1: 14:07

You want to try and harvest from areas where you know there hasn't been like a spill or a toxic dump. You always want to be careful. You know, know the rules and regulations if you're in a city park or a state park or a national park, but other than that, I mean you will see it everywhere, yeah, and there's also some commercially available products around Texas too, and the opon is a pretty robust plant, right.

Speaker 2: 14:30

I mean it'll survive in this area naturally, natively, through thick and thin, basically yeah absolutely so it will grow on the side of a highway or like in an area where there have been pollutants. Yeah, yeah, you'll find it almost everywhere.

Speaker 1: 14:43

I was looking around some places you can get it in Galveston, galveston tree conservancy it has some, some yopon trees. I'm sure several of the you know the garden. Yeah, purveyors around here also sell it. Yeah, and like you go to any ranch and you're going to see it somewhere, yeah, it's a pretty incredible tree. It's I won't say it's invasive, because it's native but, it, it'll force a lot of other things kind of off the property and it will take over, which is cool because you know, there you have a commercial opportunity.

Speaker 2: 15:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:15

If you want to get rid of some of it.

Speaker 2: 15:16

That's right. That's right. So the natives used to, of course, drink it, just like we are today, basically just on its own, but they used to mix it with other things as well. Right yeah, and the Spanish did as well. When they arrived in the Florida's and things like that. They mixed with chocolate and other things like that.

Speaker 1: 15:34

Yep, absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 15:36

The natives used it in just kind of everyday drink, but also they would use it a lot in spiritual rituals and this is one of the areas or one of the reasons that people believe it was named Ilex vomitoria is because they would consume massive amounts of it, you know, boiling hot, as hot as they could possibly stand it, and then they would.

Speaker 1: 15:59

They would throw up afterwards and the idea was this would you know, really clear their mind. In a lot of history that I read, like in Florida, for instance, some of the tribes would drink it to really get that clarity and like, after you have a cup of this, you're thinking theobromine, caffeine. You know your mind is super sharp and so they would leave some of their biggest decisions to these moments when their mind was really clear. Now, if you drink this on its own, if you drink gallons and gallons, yeah, might make you throw up, but on its own it's not going to make you throw up. So some people were thinking that the reason these natives would throw up afterwards is the quantities, or that they'd mix it with something. To your point, and there's no real strong history on what they would mix it with, but, like the Caranquans, for instance around here.

Speaker 1: 16:49

You know that have been known the history here around Galveston Island the Caranquans would frequently drink this, this Casina. You know this Yopon, and you also, when you start digging into the history, you see that it was traded throughout North America. It was traded with tribes Midwest, southwest, you know, really far outside of its actual range, because think about how far coffee has made it right. Everybody in the world has experienced coffee in one way or another. And so think about before coffee, this was like the next, this was, this was the thing and was traded all over North America.

Speaker 2: 17:27

That's a valuable commodity to trade with the areas that it, where it doesn't grow naturally right, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Yeah, and there's some really interesting like there's a few images in this book. You start digging around on websites. There's some ceremonial shells that they would actually drink it out of and I'm thinking all right, we need a shop in Galveston that has some shells that you can drink coffee tea out of and you can buy Yopon, you know, right there. Oh, that'd be great. Make it yourself at home, that'd be great. Oh man, let's get it started. A little thermos shell. Okay, yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 17:55

Let's do it. Well, I was reading I think it was in this book the Atacapin tribe that was around this area, around where the Caracuas were as well. They would drink during their spiritual rituals, their cleansing rituals. Over three days they would fast and drink around and this is the Spanish accounts, spanish and French accounts but they would drink around six gallons of that throughout the day to cleanse themselves. It just blows my mind, you know.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Well, and now you know, there's these trends around fasting and there's a lot more research that's telling us all the health benefits of fasting, especially fasting safely. And so you think about. You know, these are not discoveries we're making now. These are things that Native Americans have known for a long time.

Speaker 2: 18:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, tens of thousands of years. Really I mean, yeah, absolutely, it's crazy.

Speaker 1: 18:45

And you know there's a handful of accounts where not necessarily businesses, but where purveyors of Yopon in the 1800s would say you know, we've discovered this new tea and it's been used. I think it's been dated back to the you know almost 1000 AD. Oh my gosh, when it was like the first instance or that's what they dated back based on shells that were used for drinking and there was residuals of Yopon oh, okay, so that's not as far back as I was thinking originally.

Speaker 2: 19:15

Yeah, I'm sure it goes back further, that's you know with science and history. They have to have some sort of proof somewhere. Right, that's true.

Speaker 2: 19:21

So I'm sure it goes back even further than that Well, speaking of, you know proof right or firsthand accounts right. One of the first written accounts of Yopon being used and drank here was from Cabeza de Vaca, who shipwrecked somewhere along the Texas coast, probably Galveston, and in 1542, when he went back to Spain, he wrote down all of his accounts that when he spent nine years here roaming the American Southwest essentially, and that was one of the first accounts of Yopon being drank here in North America.

Speaker 1: 19:53

Yeah, absolutely, Pretty interesting. I think there was a Spanish priest also that said you know the men here I think it was referring to Florida but the men here have to drink this every day. Yeah, it's like their coffee. Yeah, he didn't say that because coffee wasn't as big, but if a day without Yopon? Or Casina as he said, was you know a day wasted?

Speaker 2: 20:13

Yeah, right, that's. It's like coffee with me.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Yeah, or coffee in general? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 20:20

I'm ready to be converted to Yopon though.

Speaker 1: 20:22

I am. It's fun, it really is. And you know, when you learn a little bit more about the conspiracy to then like this, maybe this is what will convert people back to Yopon and replace coffee Sweet.

Speaker 2: 20:37

I love conspiracy theories and proving conspiracies as well, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 20:42

Well, you ready to dive in? Let's do it. Okay, let's dive into it. All right. So you know we've got the scientific name Alex Vomitoria.

Speaker 1: 20:49

As I said, you know, yopon was drank a lot by natives and then the settlers really started to catch on and they loved it here in North America. And shortly before the American Revolution, you know, think like Boston Tea Party the price of Asian tea that was coming through England was through the roof and most of Europe was really encapsulated by this Asian tea trend. But all of a sudden they found that there was this other option in North America and so a lot of Americans were at that time, you know, settlers in the US were really drinking a fair amount of this. You have the American Revolution Almost all trade from England slows down or stops, especially around tea, and so American, you know, purveyors start to sell it locally and a fair amount of American merchants start to sell it in Europe and it starts to catch on.

Speaker 1: 21:48

Like I said, it caught on in Paris, you know, throughout France. It's caught on in Spain, it's caught on throughout Britain or Great Britain. So there was a couple of instances in England where they actually had like a public relations, where they said you know, you're not English if you drink other teas, only English drink, only drink English tea.

Speaker 2: 22:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:20

Right, but then you also had around the Carolinas, I think, shortly after the the American Revolution you had this German botanist that had tasted Yopan and said this is you know, there's a great alternative to Asian teas, and I can actually, he said, I can see how this would be a threat to the British East India company which commanded most of the tea trade at that time. Well, fast forward about 30 years and in 1789, the famed botanist and the first superintendent of the Royal Botanical Gardens in England, who was appointed by King George III, he actually gives you upon the controversial science, scientific name of Ilex vomitoria, and you can imagine somebody that that hears about that. Nobody wants to drink that.

Speaker 2: 23:10

No right, has vomit in the name.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Yeah, and as soon as you Google Yopan, that's the first thing that pops up. And that's what a lot of more the more recent merchants have had to deal with.

Speaker 1: 23:21

So there's this stigma. Well, another really interesting note is, about 30 years before that, carl Linnaeus, who's like now known as the father of taxonomy, right In 1753, he gave Yopan the scientific name Ilex Cassin, because everybody in Europe had known it as Cassina, and Linnaeus actually thought that Yopan and this newly discovered Dahun Holly, which is also found in the same area throughout the US, were the same species. So then we get back again to 1789, when this botanist for King George III says oh, we've got two plants that are different species, I need to rename this. I'm going to go ahead and rename this tea, you know, the Yopan tea and the plant Ilex vomitoria. And so the conspiracy theory is that he actually did that to disrupt the tea industry, right?

Speaker 2: 24:22

Wow.

Speaker 1: 24:23

This trade that was starting out of North America. A lot of people try and forgive him and say you know, there was a lot of historical accounts were drinking Yopan would make you vomit, but I think it. I think there's a lot of evidence for the conspiracy.

Speaker 2: 24:39

I mean he was kind of under the thumb of the king as well, right, and that makes a lot of sense to hurt the American economy at that point, oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 24:47

And shortly after that you see declines across Europe. They don't really. You know, the popularity really, really tanked. Now I'd say the commercial popularity in the US also tanked, but there were a lot of, of course, native people and then people throughout the southeast that continued to drink it. You find some accounts from like the Civil War, when British tea and you know, tea from Southeast Asia was really hard to find, so they would drink more of the local Yopan tea.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Ah, that makes so much sense. That makes so much sense Because, you know, during the Civil War you just kind of walk out in the woods, wherever you're camping, and go find that Yopan and brew it up for the, for your boys out there.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Absolutely Find what's available to you.

Speaker 2: 25:30

You'd be the most popular guy. You know how to source Yopan and go get it, yeah no doubt.

Speaker 1: 25:34

Well, and you know, you've got caffeine, you've got theobrobin. Like it's not like you're forcing this stuff down. It's really, you know, it's really good tea. So fast forward to kind of the early 1940s, 1950s and it starts to make a little bit of a resurgence. In the US the USDA even did some research into could this be a commercially viable species? And then here in Texas I first saw it at a farmer's market in early 2000s. It was probably like 2006,.

Speaker 1: 26:05

2007, a company that is still around and I brought a little bag of it today called Lost Pines Yopan Tea, phenomenal tea. They tell you how to make it. You know they've got. They've got all sorts of varieties green, light roasted, dark roasted. There's another company in Texas called Cat Springs Yopan.

Speaker 2: 26:27

I saw something about them yesterday. Really fascinating what they're doing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:30

Yeah, absolutely, and so I think there's a handful of companies here in Texas that are doing a good job of making great Yopan, roasting great Yopan, but also honoring that, the tradition, the native traditions, right, and not trying to rebrand it or take over, really recognizing that this came from some of the first peoples in the Southeast. You've got a. There's a huge group out of Florida called Yopan Brothers. They do a really good job of telling the history as well. And then, like, there's all these new, these really new uses for it, like you see, yopan Matcha, there's a Yopan soda, yopan Kombucha, there's even a Yopan Gin out of there's a Texas.

Speaker 1: 27:13

Distiller just outside of Austin named Treaty Oak. Yeah, I'm about to get on the online and see if I can order something.

Speaker 2: 27:18

Yeah, go up there, make a drive up there.

Speaker 1: 27:23

Yeah, and it's kind of a dark gin but it's supposed to be great. So there's, there's. There's certainly this economy that's starting to boom right now around around Yopan, this resurgence which, and you know, again, it's great, it's great tasting, but you learn all this history. It's like all right, you're you're literally drinking history.

Speaker 2: 27:45

Yeah, you know. I wonder if we would appreciate it as much if the name you know like we would be appreciated as much today if that name would have been changed. Or would we have kind of taken it for granted if a Yopan industry would have taken off in the late 1700s?

Speaker 1: 27:59

Yeah, it's a great question. I imagine it wouldn't. It wouldn't be having the resurgence you know, especially nowadays, where people like a story behind what they're eating and drinking. But we also wouldn't have seen as big a drop off in the drinking in the 1700s.

Speaker 2: 28:15

I think it would have.

Speaker 1: 28:16

I think it would have continued to thrive. And now there are even some really incredible programs I've seen throughout, like Southeast US, where they're you know, they're repatriating some historically black farms, working with farmers to institute Yopan as one of the key crops and and catch on to this or keep up with this, this boom in Yopan.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Right, I mean it could you know, maybe not disrupt the billions of dollar tea industry, but it definitely could make it down here in the US for sure.

Speaker 1: 28:49

Yeah, no doubt, and I think you know even foragers and small scale. You could. You could start a small business out of this pretty easily.

Speaker 1: 28:56

There's no place on the island to get it right now. I even stopped in at Freckleberry this morning and they're hoping to eventually get some. Maybe this is the, maybe this is the push to finally source some, this lost pines Yopan tea group. They actually will go in and clear some Yopan in order to make room for other native species, and one of their things is this the Houston Toad, which is endangered and is their logo. They actually go into the habitats to pull out Yopon and encourage those other native species that are much more benevolent to the Houston Toad.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Is it I didn't tell me about the Houston Toad? I don't know much. I don't know much more beyond that.

Speaker 1: 29:43

Like they've, got some really cool stories on their website too. Ok, and the fact that again that it's, it's kind of a dual purpose, right. It's not just commercial selling of this. They're also having an environmental impact and trying to trying to regrow some of these Houston Toad habitats.

Speaker 2: 30:02

That's so cool. That is awesome. Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 30:05

Everything. If it's got a story, you're much more likely to eat or drink it. That's right.

Speaker 2: 30:09

That's right. That's like the farmer's market, the meat. It's like you tell the story behind the animal there and that's right. Whatever, before you buy the meat.

Speaker 1: 30:16

Yeah, one day we will have. Every Yopon tea will have a name, and you'll hear the history of every, every Yopon leaf.

Speaker 2: 30:22

Yeah, and it's kind of bringing back to Galveston right. It grows naturally here on the island right and has for thousands of years.

Speaker 1: 30:29

Yeah, yeah, absolutely One of these days. I got to get you out there and I'll take you to one of my favorite foraging spots. We usually bring the kids out after rain is nice because it washes some of the cobwebs off or any kind of residuals, yeah, and then we take it home. We usually rinse it off if there's, you know, if you see some more cobwebs but then roast it. My kids haven't grown to love picking or drinking it, but gets them outdoors especially.

Speaker 2: 30:54

But they will definitely remember it.

Speaker 1: 30:56

Oh yeah, that's right, it's all about memories.

Speaker 2: 30:58

They'll know all about Yopon for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's try this man. I want to try it out, all right, yeah, I brought some in today. Sweet, I've never had Yopon.

Speaker 1: 31:06

So this is home roasted. It's a it's a dark roast, I would say OK. So I've got a little bag of some of the some of the roasted leaves.

Speaker 2: 31:18

Oh God, it smells so good. You know it's funny, it smells like tea. Yeah, right I mean, it's like I don't know what to expect.

Speaker 1: 31:26

But you can smell, like you could take a little whiff of the leaves there.

Speaker 2: 31:30

God, it smells so good.

Speaker 1: 31:31

Yeah, so imagine roasting that in your house.

Speaker 2: 31:34

I'm going to go find some Yopon today.

Speaker 1: 31:36

Yeah, yeah, it's a great little micro adventure. We've been trying to find as many micro adventures around the island where you don't have to plan. You know, two, three day weekend, you can go do something in a couple hours.

Speaker 2: 31:46

And this is not sweetened. Not sweetened at all, it's, it's sweet. I mean not overwhelmingly sweet, but it is. It has a sweet flavor to it.

Speaker 1: 31:54

There's no bitterness and that one I actually forgot about, so I let that one steep a lot longer than I should have, but it's still.

Speaker 2: 31:59

So this would be more of like the dark, dark roast, that's more of a dark roast Again. So we're on camera. I don't know if you can I know you can't see it. Ok, that is unbelievable. Oh my gosh, dude, and it grow. This is unbelievable, it's crazy, right? Yes?

Speaker 1: 32:18

Yeah, so where I? When I first learned about this, I'd come back from a work trip to the Bahamas, and they drink a lot of bush tea, so they're walking down the road again. If you didn't want to pay a lot of the import prices, you'd just pick some of your own tea. And I came back to Galveston. I'm thinking we've got to have some bush tea on the island and I start looking it up and right off the bat your pond pops up and it is.

Speaker 1: 32:42

It's one of those, you can pick it you know wherever you see it, as long as it's legal.

Speaker 2: 32:47

Oh yeah, right Right.

Speaker 1: 32:49

I've even tried to kind of slow roast and smoke it. There's some really smoky teas out there. There's like a Russian caravan tea and then there's a lap saying Sushong. Are both like, really like. It's smells like I'm drinking a campfire. It turns out decent, but I still think black, regular roasted iced teas is the best way to. Yeah, I can imagine this iced God it'd be so good I haven't mixed it with anything. Maybe one day mix it with a little bit of that Yopongin, but right for now, just drinking it in the morning, and that's great Dude.

Speaker 2: 33:24

well, thanks so much for coming in and telling us about it. Is there anything else you wanted to cover and talk about? Maybe your your work now or some of the fisheries work you've done in the past?

Speaker 1: 33:33

Yeah, oh boy, that's a whole other episode. Yeah, talking about the history of fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico. That would be a fun one. We were talking about this, this book, the Gulf that you've got here, and that's. That's a phenomenal book to teach the history of the Gulf, both the natural history as well as, you know, the human history throughout the evolution. But, yeah, I mean fisheries. Let's, let's set a date and yeah, for sure. That on another time I would love to.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Well cool, seth. Thank you so much for coming in and talking about Yopon. It grows right here in our backyard has a fascinating history. One of the first accounts of first written accounts by Europeans was from Cabeza de Vaca, who ship right here along the Texas coast in 1528, which is pretty insane. I mean to think about how far back that history goes and how it all ties back to Galveston and the Texas coast.

Speaker 1: 34:27

Yeah, absolutely. There's some fascinating history here. Yeah, man Well appreciate it. Thanks Time today.

Speaker 2: 34:32

Appreciate it, man. Thanks, all right.

Speaker 1: 34:34

Awesome, you liked it, huh that was good, thank you.