Define the Narrative

Episode 9: Choosing Single Parenthood with Mali Bain

• Mali Bains • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Mali is a former high school teacher with a background working in university, non-profit, and philanthropic settings. She is a facilitator, personal historian, and parent of a two-year-old daughter.

00:35 Finding Stories in Canada 
2:08 Mali's Background
3:15 Themes of The Anthology
5:55 Mali shares about the stories in the anthology and reads excepts
10:40 Double Donors
12:10 Semantics of Motherhood vs. Parenthood
15:20 Call to Action for Volume 2
16:10 Cover Artwork and Design
16:40 Next Gen Story Custom Publishing
17:42 Envisioning 5 and 10 Years From Now
20:45  Launch and Thinkers & Triers Q&A
www.choosingsingleparenthood.com
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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome everyone to this episode of Define the Narrative podcast. My name is Anne Argo. Thank you for joining us. I know it's been a minute since our last episode. We hope that you all had a great holiday and that you fared our Omicron wave and are back in the swing of things. Today, it is my absolute pleasure to have Malie Bain joining us. She is going to share with us about the anthology that she has put together that launches tomorrow is going to be published called Choosing Single Parenthood. Malie, thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for welcoming me.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Malie, there's so many things about this anthology that we want to share about it. But one thing that you shared with me is you wanted in particular to have Canadian women. What made you decide that you specifically wanted to have Canadian women in this anthology?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I am a Canadian woman myself. And when I began doing the research about whether I wanted to become a choice mom or not, and learning about the pathway to being a choice parent, I found myself relying mostly on resources from the US and a bit from Australia. And I wanted to just hear more stories from folks in Canada. I just thought we might have some things in common, perhaps. And I was surprised that there weren't more. So when it came time to put some stories together, I thought that's the angle that I'd like to start with is asking a woman from Canada. In the end, the stories are quite universal. However, it was meaningful to me to have stories from this part of the world.

SPEAKER_01:

Universal, yet still quite diverse, right? That deep culture of all the different aspects that we all have to challenge. And we were joking before we started recording. There were two white women. We were in our late 30s. It's the common story. And I'm like, Even us, we have our own trials and tribulations that make this journey something that I don't think we could over-document. I think the more we document it, the more we come together and the more we build community, it will be that much more meaningful in the future. Tell us about what part of Canada, how you grew up, what your family was like and what it was like when you decided to take this route to motherhood?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sure. So I grew up in a very small town on Northern Vancouver Island. It's on the far west coast of Canada, a town of 3,000 people. And spent the next many years based out of Vancouver. I did a lot of work around the world as well as in Vancouver. And honestly, always thought that the sort of traditional route would end up working out for me eventually. And wasn't sure that I wanted to be a parent, to be honest. It was something I was unclear on. Until I had a major head injury, a concussion, when I was in my late 30s. And I was suddenly... completely immobilized. It's a bit like a pandemic lockdown without the pandemic around me. So it forced me to stay home and not do much for a long time. And all of that thinking and reflection got me thinking about what I want to do with my future. And I realized I really did want to be a parent. So I come from a somewhat conservative religious family myself. And at first, I think my parents and my family had questions. However, once my child came into the world, they were very supportive. And yeah, people have been amazing. People have been so supportive the whole way through. But I now have moved back to Vancouver Island. So I'm back on Vancouver Island. And my daughter is two and a half years old.

SPEAKER_01:

That's awesome. That's awesome. I know. I think sometimes we go for a little bit and then come back and find our different pathways. And I can concur. I know that I met my challenges with my family. But the minute that he was on his way, that was all that mattered. And it's been just magical love ever since then. And I think too, that's a point, I should do a poll sometimes. Coming from the deep South of the United States, I was anticipating unfavorable feedback. I have yet to this day had anything other than, wow, that's awesome. You're so brave and such a good mom and good for you. I think that that's one of the things that keeps me going.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great point. And I'm glad you raised that because actually the neat thing about having 15 stories and reading them all at once is you get a chance to think about some themes. And that actually is a theme now that you name it. Like, I think there is more trepidation in advance of what people might think, but once we're actually parents, I think every, all of these stories are the same in that regard, right? We have our various concerns in advance. Once we're a parent, those concerns are no longer relevant, no longer a big part of our lives. So it's inspiring to know that, especially for those who are considering, right? Right. Who are worried about these things. It is. It is.

SPEAKER_01:

And I do want to dig into the different stories because there are 15 of them, one of them being your story. I do wonder if part of it is the family. fear of something different. I think, you know, universally in our, in our country here in the United States and globally, the fear of doing things that are considered not traditional. And I think that's why I like to define the narrative because I don't want to be antithetical to history. I think if we start from scratch and have no assumptions that what we're doing is anything other than what we're doing, and it's not in comparison to anything else or a threat to anything else and that we're doing well and our children are doing well, I know that by the time my son is an adult that there will be enough history of this just being something that everyone accepts so we are trudging we're trudging that road to build some some genealogical history for that single parenthood so let's get into it tell us about how you got the stories and and let's talk about some of the different stories that you have in the anthology

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sure. So I had the idea, like I say, when I was a, when I was considering choice parenthood, I wish there had been more stories, both more stories from Canada and more, I wanted like a lot of stories. I didn't want to have to read a whole book. Sometimes I didn't want to just read a bunch of stories. So I put out a call to choice moms in Canada in a Facebook group called Choice Moms Canada. And I asked people to submit just 1,000, 1,500 words to And I, at that point, I thought I would be able to choose some and not choose others. I ended up saying yes to them all. We got some volunteer editors involved and so on. Um, but some really beautiful stories, a whole, whole range of stories, um, from, yeah, from coast to coast and, uh, yeah, all sorts of different, uh, diversities within them that we can talk about more.

SPEAKER_01:

Which story did you feel was most similar to yours and in what ways?

SPEAKER_00:

Hmm, that's a really interesting question. I haven't thought about which one was most similar to mine. I think there were some Maybe that because part of it is that each of them, I resonated with them a different way. Like there was something like in every story, you know, I'm just flipping through it right now. And one of them, you know, said, I've tried to find Mr. Right for some time now, but it just hasn't been in the cards for me to this point. And I was like, oh yeah, I recognize that, you know, the timing piece for sure. And then I think, yeah. So I saw myself in different ones of these stories and actually Samia's story is, is one that I recognize myself in maybe because I come from a Christian, somewhat conservative Christian family. Hers is somewhat conservative Muslim family. I was inspired by her story and by her throughout our process because her family wasn't supportive of the idea. They became, you know, spoiler alert, they became very supportive when the child was in the world. I really appreciated her, the way she speaks about that process and the emotional journey of having to navigate family perspectives on something that is still very personal.

SPEAKER_01:

And was there a moment in her story where she had to do what she had to do and let the cards fall where they may? Pretty much.

SPEAKER_00:

I think, you know, she said, this is, can I read you a little thing of what she said?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely, please do.

SPEAKER_00:

She says, you know, I realized that was not their fault. They were brought up and entangled in a society that frowned upon such decisions. They had to find a way to exist in society while also understanding my decision. So I was not ashamed of my decision because that would mean I was ashamed of my children. So she kind of, she really stood up like she really understood who she was she had such she has a strength in the end you know she says here my family loves my children maybe even more than me they cannot get enough of them it brings me an element of peace you know and there's peace in her writing on it that's a pretty amazing it's amazing story to be able to read and I'm so grateful that she shared it

SPEAKER_01:

and I'm sure that there are other women who come from Muslim families that it will be that source of inspiration so thank you to her what is there a story that stuck out to you more than others, not necessarily in its totality, but for any particular reason, a certain uniqueness or extreme

SPEAKER_00:

aspect to it? Yeah. I mean, there were a couple, um, one that was just really a couple that were compelling to me were really beyond the nuclear family in ways that I hadn't imagined. So one woman, you know, she says she's a 41 year old single mom. Um, and she has a 24 year old son, uh, as a single mom by chance, and also a single mom by choice with a three-year-old daughter. And I just thought, wow, how amazing to have gone through the journey of being a single mom once, and then to do it again, you And choose it. And choose it. Right. So that's beautiful. Like, I just I really admired that and was and hadn't expected to read that journey. And similarly, another one that was really beyond the nuclear family for me was a mother who is actually almost like a foster parent slash aunt to her to her niece and nephew of her sister's children. And again, so she is both a foster co-foster parent to her niece and nephew and still a parent to her children. And also had her mother living with her for a while. Just the amount of family and caregiving that one woman was able to take on was remarkable to me. So those two really kind of expanded the definition for me of what a single parent family could look like.

SPEAKER_01:

Because when we decide, we usually choose how it's going to be, right? And I know for me, the expanding idea is now there's double donors, right? And for me, when I... I mean, I struggled. I had poor ovarian reserve. And for me, egg donation was kind of out of reach for me at that time. And now I know that it's a large part of the community, but it's still that one pathway. And I think what you're describing is Women who are, it is the true mixture of more than one way of motherhood and parenting, right? Of it not being just limited to whatever that one pathway is, even if different from someone else's. That's really great.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you know, it's funny you say double donor. It's interesting. It's an important thing. I think if we're considering choice parenthood to think about what our options are going forward, if, if, you know, if our own pregnancy doesn't work with our own eggs, where we go next. And there are two moms in this anthology who are double donor twin parents. And I just thought, what are the chances that we have two of these women telling their story in very different ways and different aspects, but just shows again that like, that's, there's a large community of, of double donor moms. I don't know how large the community is a double donor twin moms, However, yeah, beautiful to hear some of those stories.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think it does just speak to that idea of, you know, wanting to nurture and parent. And that brings me to another question that I have. Thank you so much. Like single mom by choice, that is great. But you know, single, and I think even mother, because I have found myself saying in life, I'm an only parent, right? Because it's like, who's to say, I don't, people say, oh, you're the mother and the father. And I'm like, well, I don't want to take away from men. Like, you know, fatherhood is something that men get to experience, but I'm the only parent, just like he's an only child. It's not, it's not that he's the brother and the sister. Right. And so was there, was there a lot of thought behind parenthood for you using that word?

SPEAKER_00:

There was a lot of debate on title. I had a really hard time choosing the title, to be honest. Parenthood was important to me. I didn't put motherhood out as an option because of what you're speaking to. Because of gender diversity, we have a binary around gender in our society. but not everyone falls into that irony. So I wanted to open that up and also wanted to leave a lot of space for those who identify as men to be in the anthology. I put out the word pretty far, as far as I could within networks and didn't have anyone who both had the energy resources and courage to share that story just now, but they are there. And so I think I wanted to open up that space a bit more for, yeah, for those who decide to go through surrogacy, for example, as a way to solo parenthood, that's a valid path and an important path to honor so I kept the name parenthood for that inclusive inclusivity reason even though in the end all of the the folks in the book all identify as as women but I felt it was important and also because there's something for me about about Yeah, about parenthood versus motherhood connotation-wise. There's a mom culture that sometimes I really love, and sometimes I don't feel like I quite fit into.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, first of all, I love the fact that you are opening up the conversation to including men, and it just speaks to how quickly the development of parenthood is changing with surrogacy. And I know, for example, with my son, he has a willing-to-be-known donor, and I know We're the third family. We know the first, second and fourth family, two of them. are same sex families. And one of them is, is a woman like I am. And I notice a difference in it's the only parent. I do think that parenting as an individual versus parenting or co-parenting in whatever form or fashion, I do believe that there's a wanting to connect because we don't necessarily, and I had my mom in the beginning. I appreciate that because I know that there are men going through this and not necessarily just gay men that are doing it on their own. There's heterosexual men as well. And I think that they will appreciate us welcoming them to the conversation and validating the fact that men can do it too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. And if, if I had like, I would love to do a follow-up anthology of some of those stories. I don't know if it will happen. I don't know who those people are and whether they want to share their stories, but Hey, I'm telling you, maybe people will hear about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Malie, you just put it out in the universe. It's manifested and we're We just need to attract it. So define the narrative. is not gender specific. So Calling All Men, let's get volume two going. We'll work on it for you, Malie. We'll see how quickly we can get it going. It also has a most beautiful cover. Tell us a little bit about the artwork.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so the cover design, so the art itself, like the painting that is the base of the cover design comes from another choice parent in Canada. She submitted her art and said she'd love to make that her contribution rather than writing. She made this piece. And then it was designed by Cara Bain Design. She took this piece of art and kind of was thinking about diversity of stories and all of the various ways that people become parents. And so that led to this kind of rainbow of colors to give us the cover.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, just absolutely gorgeous. This is just one project. You actually have your own publishing company that our listeners might be interested in. Share a little bit about your custom publishing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sure. So I launched Next Gen Story Custom Publishing in order to help families capture their memories in print. So I help families create beautiful family history books and or publish their memoirs. I started it when I helped publish my grandmother's book years ago. And I just love that work. It is very rewarding. And yeah, I'm happy to connect with folks on that as well if they're interested in. And they

SPEAKER_01:

can find that contact information on your website as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Yeah. That's a next gen story. So it's N-E-X-T-G-E-N story. Great. And

SPEAKER_01:

we'll make sure that we put all of those links in the description for this episode of the podcast. And before we wrap things up, Malie, it's February of 2022. And I know it just seems like a project that you did to support you during the season. But when you think five years down the road and 10 years down the road, what do you see this anthology's impact and where do you see this topic in five years and in 10 years?

SPEAKER_00:

Huh? Really interesting. I hope this anthology sparks more anthologies like this. So I hope five years from now, we look back and say, this is one of many and that there are so many people doing this work and telling these stories that we're able to find these stories everywhere we look. So I hope that's the case five years from now. Yeah, and 10 years from now, I don't know. I mean, I think some of what you said is really interesting. When you redefine the narrative, And you look back, you start to realize that the areas where we were pushing boundaries are now the norm. So I think 10 years from now, we'll be looking at this book and saying, yeah, of course, to many of these stories. That's my hope, at least. I

SPEAKER_01:

wholeheartedly agree. Yeah, no. Absolutely. It's going to be the norm. And we're going to realize, wow, back then they were really pushing the boundaries. And it'll be hard for younger folks who weren't really thinking about it now to... to really fathom it. I think that's why I continue to have deep gratitude for the folks that go before us because for them, they were just doing what they felt like they need to do in life. And they really did take that courageous step to open up a pathway. I know for me, if it hadn't have been for something for me to find out there to grab onto, to find what I knew was craving inside of me, right? So hopefully it will not be so challenging for folks to grab onto.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's interesting because as you say that, I think part of it is that there's the challenge of becoming a parent and then there's a challenge of being a parent. And another thing I hope will happen is that folks listening to your podcast and so on will become parents themselves. It may take whatever length of time. But as you're a parent, there's a need for inspiration as well, ongoing, as you and I both know. And so I hope the parents that read this anthology come back to it in five years and get re-inspired. And I hope to come back to your podcasts and get re-inspired because it's important to be inspired when we start this journey and also to continue to touch back in and have community and remember why we are doing this and how we've all gotten through it collectively.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And that's really what got me into wanting to do this podcast is I know it was it was, you know, I lived it right when you're thinking about it and you're trying and then you're having a baby and then you've got toddlers. And I have a 10 year old now and it just seems like we need to remind each other that we do still need to collectively come together and remember what amazing things. What amazing things we're doing as parents in the world. So maybe, maybe that's another anthology as well. That's a good point. I appreciate you making that. You have a launch. Yes. Next Sunday. Yeah. Next Sunday. Tell us about that launch.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. We're going to have a few of the authors on online. read some pieces from the from the anthology, sort of celebrate the stories. And then we've also invited those participating to share questions. So we're calling it a launch and thinkers Q&A. So we have a bunch of questions coming in. And we just want to have a dialogue. I think this book, this anthology really came together. Thinking of the thinkers or the triers, you know, those who are in the process of becoming choice parents, and so wanted to honor their questions. questions and just uh dialogue talk about some of the things that come up so questions on there around um how to manage post uh post birth of course there's some questions around choosing donors firm um choosing donors in general um yeah so we'll have some questions from the audience and have a chance to kind of engage a bit so looking forward to the the combo

SPEAKER_01:

my follow-up questions to that are how do folks join that and then also how do they buy your book be ran by Well,

SPEAKER_00:

good questions. They're both at choosing single parenthood.com. So if you go to choosing single parenthood.com, there's a registration link there for the launch. And there's also links to the, to the anthology it's for sale on Amazon and anywhere else you usually buy books.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much for joining us today on define the narrative podcast. And I look forward to joining next Sunday for your launch party and meeting some of the women from your anthology. And I, hope that many many women purchase it soon we're able to bring these women to light so that all of the women that can identify i know for every single woman that told her story that there's a hundred that can identify with each one of them so thank you for doing this work yeah thank you for having me today and thank you for listening to episode nine of our first season of define the narrative podcast we know that you found us on your go-to podcast platform If you haven't already, please follow us on Instagram at Define the Narrative. You can also reach our website at www.definethenarrative.org. Until next time, which I promise will be sooner than later, we wish you to be happy, healthy, and at peace. And most importantly, we'll see you next Sunday at Malie's launch party.