Damien Mander & The All Female Vegan Rangers: The Akashinga

In the 7th episode of the Principles of Change podcast, I discuss the work of the International Anti Poaching Foundation with its founder, Damien Mander.  Damien is a former Australian Royal Navy Clearance Diver and Special Operations military sniper who used his life savings and funds to start the International Anti Poaching Foundation, where we find the Akashinga: Africa's first armed, plant-based, all-women anti-poaching unit.

In Today's Episode:

• Intro & Damien's Story
• How the IAPF started
• Do confrontations get violent?
• Are all the rangers really Vegan?
• How many animals have you saved?
• What about demilitarisation?
• How can people help?
• Damien's Principles of Change

https://www.iapf.org

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Transcript

Intro & Damien's Story

Damien Mander 0:00

since we've started this program uh, we've helped play a role in an 80% downturn and elephant poaching across the region and elephant being an what other animals. There's also been a a downturn, uh, lot of other poaching in our areas we've seen to be exact to 399% increasing. In the siding of large mammals. it's been a very successful program in regards to, I mean, not only the social side, but also from an environmental and a law enforcement side as well.

Seb Alex 0:31

That was Damien Mander. And this is episode six of the principles of change podcast. My name is Alex and I'm the host of this show. I'm an animal rights activist, lecture and author of the ebook. When Adam. The rights are logic meat. Which you can download in 20 languages for free on my website. Set alex.org. The aim of this show is to motivate you to get more active and find in what way you can each personally make this world a better place. During my past seven years of activism journey, I realized that a lot of people that sometimes friends feel very limited in what they can do in order to help other animals, environmental protection or other social issues. And in my own journey of learning from other activists, I realized that so many amazing game changers have found countless creative ways to make this world a better place. I invite these amazing individuals and chat about what they do, their journeys, tactics, and advice. My goal is to finish each episode by making you realize the incredible power of the individual and remind you. That there is no one perfect way of activism. Finally, if you wish to support this podcast, I would really appreciate it. If you can subscribe and leave a review, And if you'd like to support it directly and have access to early and exclusive episodes, please make sure to check the Patrion link provided below. thank you so conservationist I'm really really excited I know it's not always easy to set aside time for these interviews but I really appreciate it have you

Damien Mander 1:58

Yeah, good said thanks very much for having me, mate they had just finished up two months, a busy two months traveling around the United States. It's the first opportunity I've get back there had to

Seb Alex 2:10

already that

Damien Mander 2:12

and also philanthropists involved we're our people

Seb Alex 2:17

we're

Damien Mander 2:17

to catch up with core

Seb Alex 2:18

principles that

Damien Mander 2:19

but it's to be home in

Seb Alex 2:21

That's great. by Damon's work and to explore I you, if you can give by them I'm really inspired Damien's where you are. to do So

Damien Mander 2:33

I grew up in the east coast of Australia between Sydney and Melbourne joined the military uh, by Damien's military uh diver September 11th attacks the Australian government formed a small niche counter-terrorism unit called tactical assault group based. Uh, I Went across there as a sniper eventually, um, deployed in the private sector. Iraq So three years in Iraq finished the beginning of 2000 a night. spent some time trying to rediscover who I was and what my direction was. And in 2009 found myself in Africa and inspired the work of wildlife arranges uh, plight of animals militarized units. Generally Tuscola at their home. I saw a use for the only two things I had in this world some money and some skills that I, I bought across from a career in the military, unfortunately required at the time to, to protect subspecies. So I set up the international anti-poaching foundation, the IPF in 2009 liquidated, a property portfolio, and Here we are 12 years later uh, having scaled to, to have tried and ranges across millions of acres wilderness, billions of bangs across those areas. growing every day, not only as a, as an organization, but as an individual. a finally I would say off the 12 years, work retention of the bits that do and and and evolution as a I the challenges are what make it all worthwhile. practices

Seb Alex 3:57

That's true. While you were doing all of this I know there's obviously a lot individuals and also organizations who who work on this but you also went vegan which one came first Did you first go vegan and then realize the power of like wild animals and the poaching issue Or did you first working on the poaching issue and then make the connection veganism and other items

Damien Mander 4:22

I got involved with anti-poaching. initially with a focus, as I said, primarily sports, elephant and rhino, because they were being targeted ways that a person with my sort of skillset would fall into cadence in, terms of where the conservation industry was going at the time it was becoming increasingly militarized. And that suited me. And, you know, so like if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So I was, I was out there and trying to protect the elephant rhino and then that sort of expanded onto other. Other wild animals. And then I would say, you know, since beginning the organization, there were a number of opportunities that I had to make the connection between wild animals and domestic animals, and continuously chose to ignore connections. And in some cases, you know, fairly because it didn't suit my conveniences. And it was for questioning my own practices. myself, having them by other people. And essentially I was traveling around the world, getting up on stage and telling people how important conservation is protecting the environment and looking after the animals. But I was going home and, and not only being a part of, but investing in an industry with the money that I would spend on me investing in an industry that was responsible for the greatest degradation of wildlife. On, this planet being the meat industry and the greatest cause of animal suffering and death, again, the meat industry. So it just didn't make sense to carry on being a hypocrite and I could no longer suppress the truth. And that, that is the beautiful thing about the truth. It's a cumulative and eventually you can't really deny if you do enough research and willing to be open to the facts that are out there, it becomes really hard to deny that. And essentially to, yeah, at least from my own sense, carry on with a clear conscience. Uh, I mean, I can, I can bullshit other people, but I can't bullshit myself. And, I suppose that's Yeah, that's of the, one of the, things that you know, w when I speak to other vegans and people in our movement I tell them, keep having and keep getting better at them because someone like me, it may take years to come around and come to realize the truth. Some people may change overnight, but as I said, that that truth is a cumulative, and it may feel like you're talking to a brick wall, but eventually eventually the shadows will come up. And when I do that, I never go down again.

Seb Alex 6:57

Yeah, that's powerful. And when you started doing this work, was it straightaway? You set up the international foundation or you first joined other groups and then ended up thinking, okay, I can start this and continue another.

How the IAPF started

Damien Mander 7:13

It's very hard to get involved. I think not just in conservation, but I mean, when I was in another country on another continent that I wasn't from, I was in an industry that I had no background in. And I was almost in a sense, trying to get involved with that industry for the wrong reasons. I was looking more for a fight than a cause. Uh, having count from my background and it sort of seemed like the next cool thing to do to be out doing this anti-poaching work. So I was trying to get involved with people that had dedicated their lives to setting up organizations and doing things for the right reasons. And here I was trying to have a sort of adventure on the, on the coattails of their hard work and success. And so I found it very hard initially to get an open door and then eventually was able to um, be able to get a stop with an organization and get involved with them. 2009, but I find out any sort of permanent uh, in regards to you know, having some a visa in And, also the I was seeing things be done. I actually think. Maybe with a little bit of arrogance for that we could do them better ourselves. so it was a combination of a few factors that we set up the international anti-poaching foundation in October, 2009.

Seb Alex 8:23

I've watched your amazing speech at Ted talks And those who don't know what the international antibiotic foundation does I mean obviously the name is kind of clear on the mission you give more detailed information about how it functions and who's behind it and who are the people who are working fight with this mission

Damien Mander 8:46

Yeah. So it actually it's not very descriptive of who we are as an organization anymore. it's who we were when we started back in 2009, but we've, we've very much evolved and anti-poaching is one of the, um, one of the elements of our work that we do. off as a w we, we all going through rebranding exercise at the moment, which, which will probably entail an entire new name as an organization uh, at some point soon. So watch this space, but we essentially started off as a service provider. So we were going out, working with other organizations, helping to train their ranges. across then stopped being a service provider in 2017. we started buying land leases in conjunction local indigenous communities. We were essentially buying the leases that hunting companies used to have. in some cases, even buying out hunting companies themselves, of course not doing any hunting. But recognizing that the industry was dying and as it died, it was leaving this huge tractor tracks of wilderness areas that would otherwise be a quad for animal agriculture or humans filament. So we, we wanted to look at hunting more as a an equation to be solved rather than an argument to be had. that's how we kind of defined or. Vacant land opportunities. and so I, at a lot, at the same time, we stopped looking at elephant rhinos as species to protect and started looking at Barnabas and collectively stopped looking at just parks by themselves and started looking at what up in landscapes today. The organization is as evolved with that with an initial mission of, of, to protect and preserve. Preserve wildlife in volatile regions to now running, large landscape scale conservation programs in conjunction with local indigenous communities with women's empowerment at the center of our strategy. we effectively approaching conservation from a social side. We're working with communities gender equality, job creation uh, healthcare education. water sanitation infrastructure and the byproduct of these functioning communities and communities that see the value of, of conservation, the by-product of all that is biodiversity protection. so it's, it's, it's very much, we've gone from being inside a reserve, looking out into the, how we begin to protect this area to starting from the social side. In the community and working in, so how do we get these communities to where they see the value of conservation. And that for us has been a very, it's been a very powerful transformation in regards to effects that we're achieving, the impacts that we're having on a far grander scale than just going out and trying to defend wilderness areas with, with bigger fences and more guns. We, we shifted our strategy in 2017 to, put women's empowerment the center of that strategy, then use that strategy for them to create their own futures, this giving the greatest buy in for dollar in, in rural community then conservation being the third, the third layer of impact.

Seb Alex 11:38

Wow That's really powerful And just out of curiosity you mentioned the industry dying the hunting industry I

Damien Mander 11:44

Yeah.

Seb Alex 11:46

I've seen the numbers of how much money people pay to hunt other animals especially in certain African countries you know what is the reason behind the industry then

Damien Mander 11:58

Yeah, there's a, there's a number of factors that are involved with the decline of the trophy hunting industry. And just to give some context in relation to where these practices take place. So, so across Africa, there's about twice as much land set aside under what's called communal land trust or tribal land. Then there is national parks collectively. So national parks are part of a centralized system that fall on the federal government in most, most countries. Now, tribal trust, fall and the economic model these indigenous communities have for a number of, of in some decades. Has been uh, It's it's, one of models use along with a photographic tourism. Carbon credits is a, is a new method that that is also generating a commercial income stream. But trophy hunting as an industry is dying. Generally because of what I, what I see as, as one of three factors, the first one is reduced species populations, particularly across the wide open landscapes, such as Nyasa and Mozambique Serengeti and Tanzania, the Zambezi valley. So you're seeing. reduction in what a hunter or a hunting outfitter would term a product to sell. You've got reduced customer base alongside that you've got a generation raised on digital media that doesn't want to get on a plane and fly across the world anymore to shoot an animal, to hang above the fireplace. And then in between a reduced product and a reduced customer. You have a tougher laws or regulations and policies particular, for example, the exportation of Zimbabwe ivory the United States, which used to make up more than 50% of the clientele here. So a hunter can no longer come from America to Zimbabwe, kill an elephant and take the trophy back. so that reduces the, the, the amount of people that are gonna come over. Yeah. Uh, so communities look at alternative economic models, for the areas, uh, which as I mentioned generally, would become, agricultural use or human settlement. so we, you know, we wanted to try and find a, an alternate use for these areas. In a conservation sense. These are the lost causes. These in many cases hunting is not a traditional not-for-profit partner. It's, it's been very hard historically like unlike a national park that may have a dozen different. Non-profits they're supporting conservation efforts in that park. It's very hard as a nonprofit to say, Hey, we were going to support this hunting reserve. We're going to go out and help particularly these animals. So someone can come over and shoot some of them. And so when a hunting operation fails and the hunter pools out of there, do you sort of lift with a blank canvas? and us as an organization where we. We, we didn't want to be a part of a long list of organizations fighting to do some work in a, in a, in an overpopulated national park uh, with different funding resources. We wanted to go to the lost causes because I think in a conservation sense and particularly in today's climate where we are losing more and more of the natural world, the lost causes are the ones with fighting.

Seb Alex 14:50

yeah. I agree with that. do you get any collaboration or help from local governments in your work?

Do confrontations get violent?

Damien Mander 14:57

Yeah. So, so there's something much more valuable in regards to what we do on the ground than money. And that is mandate. get mandate because the traditional owners of this land. We get mandate from government, which is the uh, structure that traditional communities use. and then from federal government uh, as an organization to operate in these countries and in Zimbabwe, for example, we've got 240 staff conducting. Could be perceived as some very sensitive activities we have a, you know, a large force that is responsible for protecting these areas. and some governments, if, if you don't build for So we've the, women may deem that to be know, threat to some sort of level. Uh, but we have a very from President meningococcal. His daughter is actually a volunteer ranger with us. Uh, with our, our fit uh, and we operate alongside the the authorities in Zimbabwe in line with the laws of the country. And then, you know, not only the laws of our country, of this country, but laws that we implement ourselves as an organization beginning with the, the, I mean the very first week of training of our ranges, we're teaching him the correct escalation of the use of force prohibition against human rights. How to, you know, the, the law of operating in these areas as a, as a not-for-profit and an organization that's conducting security operations. So these are, these are all lessons and it turned to lesson plans and laws that have been drafted, not only within the guidelines of Zimbabwe, but also on an international basis, that would be recognized within any I'd say any Western law enforcement model.

Seb Alex 16:30

So if you were to give me an example if you can let's say the armed Rangers the women are patrolling an area I may be wrong about how dysfunctions but you can correct me And they realized there there's some activity and there's poetry What are the steps that they follow Have you had not accidents but let's say confrontations with poachers where live bullets had to be shot at each other until someone gave up or unfortunately they got let's say injured or something If you're able to share with us

Damien Mander 17:01

sure. who have conducted arrests now in the past four years since model being w you male centric model miles might up all of that operational forces to switching to um, women uh, weighed 95% of our staff an operational sense uh, women now.

Seb Alex 17:19

okay

Are all the rangers really Vegan?

Damien Mander 17:19

In over 300 arrests, there's been only shots fired once and they were warning shots. Now and around the world in law enforcement, as a general rule of thumb around 3% of crimes are solved by catching someone in the act. and 97% is solved for intelligence led operations, which requires information and people will communities that are willing to give that information. just to give you a context, we have a teams of, of Rangers patrolling areas, the size of small countries, hoping to bump into something. we might come across footprints uh, and we'll go and follow those footprints up to try and figure out how old the footprints are where they're leading to. And then what we will do is you know, if it looks like those footprints are some days old or even hours old, we may try to track them. Or what we'll do is we'll start plugging into our intelligence networks in the local community and try and figure out who the poachers are, where they came from and where they're heading to. And so the, The method of patrolling versus the method of using intelligence intelligence allows us to be very laser focused in putting a limited amount of resources in exactly the right position. Patrolling involves being out there, looking for footprints, but also there's a number of other things that Rangers are responsible for. When they're in the field, they're looking at vegetation, they're looking for invasive species, whether they'd be animals or plants, they're looking for fire threats that they're conducting fire back burning operations. They are taking note of species, different animals that are moving through the area, how old those animals are, the, the hood sizes trying to build out an ecological picture as well as a law enforcement one,

Seb Alex 18:49

Rangers themselves they at least while they're working served and they only cook plant-based foods Right

Damien Mander 18:57

the gangsters. Yeah, I actually try try with some years ago, it was with one of our all male units we worked for for years, worked with for years. And uh, and I said, listen, I want to trial a plant-based diet. And we knew we nearly had a mutiny A group of the head Rangers come on and said that I was here as a foreigner interfering with their culture and customs. When in actual fact, Africa was raised last year on a plant based diet with meat reserved, primarily for ceremonial purposes, but we won't get into, into cultural lessons on um, on, on a plant-based history of Africa's foundations. But Yeah. The long story short. I mean, we, we offered them the pay increase just to trial and we offered them any food, any plant-based food they a month to bring in like the best shifts they still declined. when we started this unit with the women from day one, we just, I mean, there was no, like we were trying to backtrack from something that we created and then going well, hang on. This is a good idea. Let's let's try and bring it a plant based diet. We just from day one. This is what we're doing. And these are the reasons. And I think explaining the reasons rather than just enforcing the law uh, was, it was a far more impactful. I would say tool in, in getting this ingrained as part of the program. And we built out a program within the program and that overall after Shingo and that's called back to black roots and that's teaching the women how to grow their own food. uh, I had to speak about it from a nutritional and environmental and an ethical standpoint. the stage one of back to black roots is is, is working with the women. And our other staff stays. Two is working with the family. Stage three is working with the communities and stage four is building ambassadors. and funnily enough, The place where we started this program this original program, this pilot fuck Shingo is called in, local dialect. That means meat pot because it used to be, it was night. It was, it was a very famous, uh, hunting area. so diseases of meat that used to come out of the areas uh teaching people how to be So here you've got a, uh, group of. illnesses in the first place is one one of the toughest jobs, most respected jobs in if not the world in some of the harshest and most remote locations. Uh, and they're doing it on a plant-based diet based out of a place called near McCarty or the meat pot the middle of the Zambezi valley. you know, we have media that come in. And they always tried it. They tried it. Okay. They pull your spine. They're like I said, just tell us the truth. You know, what's going on with the vegan side and the plant-based side because they don't really believe it. And then they'll go some, do you go and speak to whoever you want, go and speak to the women, gone, gone, ask them and, you know, they'll go and have the conversations they'll come back. And they're like, Yeah, they're pretty uh, they're pretty staunch. They're pretty uh, solid on the plant-based side of things. And some of them are honest. Some of them are like uh, you know, at home we, we eat whatever we want. the majority of the women uh, 19 plant-based living through, um, through their home and family lives. you know, this is, this is also some of the criticism that we've had, that we were forcing them to do. To be vegan or plant-based, and it's not, it's, it's just what we serve at work. like, you, you know, there's a number of companies now that are only serving plant-based food at work because it's better for the environment. It's better for the health. I mean, we're, we're in a country that has a very uh, an, a region, a continent. That often has struggling healthcare systems. The best prevention we have is, is, is shoot and is indicator of is happening

How many animals have you saved?

Seb Alex 22:31

Yeah. definitely. I mean, it wouldn't make sense to try to empower the local communities while at the same time feeding them food That's not good Be good for their health and going to end up spending either their time or their money on medication or hospital bills. So I wanted to ask when it comes to numbers, do you have any number that you can share on the impact that you have made? Whether that's animals saved or areas that you were able to buy? You were mentioning the parks and rec. Okay.

Damien Mander 23:01

So we, we started August, 2017 with 16 women protecting an initial one, a reserve that had been reclaimed from trophy hunting. And that was 90,000 acres. four years later, we have eight reserves totaling 1.3 million acres. we have 240 staff. Uh, we're scaling towards a thousand staff by uh, 20, uh, 26. we're in the process now of negotiating two large land deals in neighboring countries uh, that would bring up portfolio. to over 6 million acres. it's a very exciting time This MBZ valley of the mid to low is MBZ valley where we, we first initiated the program. And the 16 years prior to this program starting they'd been 8,000 elephants. Uh, in the area or about 40% of the overall population, one of the largest remaining elephant populations on the continent, since we've started this program uh, we've helped play a role in an 80% downturn and elephant poaching across the region and elephant being an what other animals. There's also been a a downturn, uh, lot of other poaching in our areas we've seen to be exact to 399% increasing. In the siding of large mammals. So we it's been a very successful program in regards to, I mean, not only the social side, but also from an environmental and a law enforcement side as well.

Seb Alex 24:23

That's really, really powerful. And what are the biggest struggles you've had so far? I'm sure it's, this is not an easy task Otherwise many more organizations would be doing this

Damien Mander 24:37

Yeah, look, there's been a number of struggles. I mean, funding is always an ongoing struggle. we shifted the way that we looked at our funding models. for example, last year in, in America, there was around$450 billion that was given to philanthropy for all different sectors. Uh, Religion made up around 39% of that coming down the list, you have education at 14% healthcare at nine, you come right down the. Uh, and you have climate change or climate crisis issues, environment, conservation, animals, domestic and wild, local, and international make up a collective 3%. So anything non-human is 3%. when we started looking at our work as social side, what we did is we opened up ourselves to a a lot of different, not different funding avenues, but into larger pots uh, particularly on the healthcare and education which make up a large of our social work that we do in these communities. So we sort of shifted the way that we looked at our work. Not only from an operational sense, but also from a fundraising sense you know, say some of the other. Challenges too, that we face is that we are doing something that hadn't been done before in conservation, at least not to the scale or to the ratio or to the roles of what women play so that there was no armed or female anti-poaching units. There's no one. That's tried to scale beyond a single female. Anti-poaching. our policies of we, we have differently thrust women into the forefront of all roles in conservation, where historically there've been restricted to certain roles and not giving them access to the experience. They needed to rise up into management in the field And how we doing, all of this, and also particularly as, or being part of a, fantastic team, and, and helping to lead this. practice In Africa as outside as a white foreign male, a working with, with a number Of forces That there are people that want to see it file I mean, it has been getting, not only, it'd be getting a lot of attention locally as a successful model um, as having other communities and traditional leaders come to us and say help us replicate, but also towing the media. And I think the more that you put your head up over the horizon you know, the more people are going to be there trying to try to drag you down. And, and in that sense, you know, particularly from a. From a uh, agenda mainstreaming position that there were a lot of, a lot of individuals that were just waiting on every, every second rock. There was someone there waiting for a mistake to be made. Recognizing the need to not only make our own cultural transformation you know, rapid process within our own organization, but also to get it right from, from the exterior and the people that we're scrutinizing, doing. to try to overhaul not only what operationally, but function organization, how many women we had on the boards, how many women ethics, our HR practices. independent HR done. Uh, Agenda mainstreaming uh, audits it's done organizations on our operations has helped us to continue what is becoming a and give other organizations, because matter of, of swapping men out for There are updates that made operationally organizationally.

Seb Alex 28:05

Hmm That is I cannot even imagine I was thinking about the fact that you as a foreigner a white male coming there and getting involved with local communities if there had been any backlash but I mean at the end of the day And the impact the organization is making speaks for it

Damien Mander 28:23

Okay.

Seb Alex 28:24

And I wanted to ask I saw a post on your Instagram where you were talking about the demilitarizing process of this and building bridges with local communities And that made me also wonder know when it comes to the poachers what would you say to the argument that some people give or disabled poachers do it because they need money And so you stopping them is like you're coming from a place of privilege I mean not you personally but whoever is working against that what is exactly happening there What is the detail that the story is missing

Damien Mander 28:56

There's a combination there of, different motivators. Some is money and some. That's what we call commercial versus subsistence, a subsistence being people poaching to put food on the table and commercial is people poaching for money and varying levels of money. Some may be doing well financially, others, others not so, and I'd say we probably deal more with definitely on the ground. With those that are, that are not doing so well financially. And uh, it is uh, I would say one of the least favorite parts of the job is, is seeing someone be arrested knowing that that person is out there trying to, trying to put food on the table. we have. You know, a stronger focus on dealing with the social aspects are of the communities we work in in terms of job creation, in terms of doing local projects uh, in the communities trying to create alternative means of income. Uh, I mean the, a woman will spend. Uh, Between 80 and 90% of, of her salary on family and local community versus a male that was spent 30 to 40%. And that is often going into a circular economy inside these communities. So whilst the women might, or the woman might be the breadwinner in the family you know, most of the women that we've we've. We've hired within 18 months of bought their own land and build the build, build their own house. And that means money going back into the community for building products and that, and and labor costs uh, but also food being purchased locally. More kids getting back into school. School fees being paid to schools, teachers being employed clinics being stocked. So there's uh, we're doing as much as we can from a social side, bearing in mind, we're a conservation organization and the social responsibilities often fall on the shoulders of, of conservationists who don't necessarily specialize in this. And definitely don't have the pots of. Or funding to deal with with such mass scale social issues that our continent like Africa does face. So we make best with what we have. there's also the other component too more relevant now than at any other time in history, a civilization is brought to its knees by a global pandemic, as a direct result of the way we treat nature. At a certain point, we do have to draw a line in the sand and just say, listen. Yeah, It might not, might not be the flavor of the month, but if we don't hold onto what we have left and there will be nothing left. there's two. thrusts of what we do. One is trying to build out the social side and solve this from us from is, is trying to act as that stop gap while the social guy gains increasing traction. and that is, you know, this, the stop gap is, is stop the hemorrhaging of the amount of wildlife and the natural world that we are. We're losing in terms of, of To get part of your question. one of the many qualities we've found be a result of the model of centralizing our strategy around a women's empowerment uh, alongside with complete cessation in and corruption amongst the ranks of women ranges. We haven't experienced any corruption yet in a country that ranks. ranks is one of the most corrupt countries in the world to do business. We, we haven't experienced that. One of the other mind factors we've noticed women naturally deescalate tension

Seb Alex 32:07

Hmm.

Damien Mander 32:07

particularly in a law enforcement role. And, and I suppose this is what the, this is what brings us to a large component of the success that we're experiencing. So traditionally with men in enforcement, we, we, and I can speak from my own personal experience. My background being in counterinsurgency warfare, our job was to look at, look for a fight and try and finish it. And women, women bring a different set of values. To community-based policing and law enforcement. And, and I, I can say now after, after more than two decades in military and law enforcement and conservation, and after four years of switching everything we know and understood about, about law enforcement and putting women at the center of that strategy I can say that. Uh, Thrusting women into the forefront of law enforcement shifts, the dynamics of society for the better. We couldn't go out to a city like Chicago and say, Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna just grab all the men from this region and But in it's in the case of week, Because there was, had a to start moving into areas that had no law enforcement infrastructure and hadn't had cases for than a decade. So we had this opportunity to go in and build this force from zero and see what happens. Uh, and the results of that. Being uh, amazing. You know, we cut our core operating costs by two thirds through D deescalation deescalation means demilitarization. So instead of a fighter jets, or helicopters canine attack teams military grade optics, we had something far more important than biceps and bullets. We had interpersonal relationships driven by the women. at household level in the communities that they were raised in and the communities that they're building their own families in it's an idea and it's a concept that can change far more conservation it's, it's something that I think a lot more. Not only organizations, but countries systems are starting to take a look at the flow on benefits of putting women into this role and being the, the guardians of society that don't stand there, policing society, but are part of society. the important things in

How can people help?

Seb Alex 34:18

Hello I mean amount of success that You see with trying out something new. You know, I was wondering, as an organization you did mention funding is always an obstacle for someone listening to this who wants to be of help, what is the best way that they can support mission

Damien Mander 34:37

it doesn't necessarily have to be our but I think that's watching that has an, has an just as of civilization on the future of, of us as a species, as a part of nature. We just, we really need to get on board. And uh, I mean, I take, I take not only personal but inspiration from someone like Jane Goodall who understood many years with nature is, uh, involved conservation or phase or career it's it is a lifelong not only endeavor commitment, but an achievement. And I think we all need to be doing that, doing something good. Doesn't give us a credit to go and do something years time 41 to be looking after the environment, you know, we need to our team What it is we do and how we live and, and, and who we are as individuals. I mean, we all seem to be in a big hurry to have a fancy car and a house and a suit and all this consumer shit. And that's honestly, that's what it is. Doesn't make you happy, you know? I want to give you a short term spike in enjoyment or whatever, but it's not as thought genuine longterm happiness. And and you can't buy life are not things, their actions, relationships. think one of the most relationship we need to have is, with nature. We one of millions of that, that has common reason and, and will eventually go extinct how fast go extinct is up to So finding organizations work on the ground and becoming regardless very important. But how we live our lives is, is important to learn more about what website, the IAPF anti-poaching foundation.

Seb Alex 36:22

All right. I will add that in the description and to finish My last question is what are your core principles personally have that want to fight for the change that you want to see in the world?

Damien Mander 36:39

for, said earlier, probably the wrong reasons. Now sitting here. Well, I sort of remained unchanged us a as to, where I want to be in sort of 40 and commitment and the Thanks for tuning who knows how like to say that has played a part in helping to protect as much of the natural world as possible. Knowing that within the wilderness areas, we protect uh, millions billions of, of different sentient beings. that the way to achieve that is through working with local indigenous communities. Yeah, but for us, it's, it's very much locally driven programs at scale protecting wilderness and bio-diversity through, through

Seb Alex 37:19

Amazing. Damien, thank so much for your time and a thank you all the team, every person who is of the international anti-poaching foundation, you're all an inspiration. I can only say that I'm pretty sure we're going to see massive success and amazing future with all the work that all the team is doing within the and beyond. thank you again so much for your time and inspiration and I hope we'll, cross paths, one. I appreciate everything you're doing. I really hope you enjoy listening to Damien as much as I did, and also feel inspired to get active in whatever way you can. I can for sure. Say for myself that Damon is definitely a very motivational person and important person. In the fight for animal rights. Both him and the whole organization, every single member on their organization team. There's one thing I can ask from you all is to please share this episode with at least one friend of yours. So that more and more people realize how important getting active is and how much it helps the environment and the animals. I'd also like to remind you to subscribe to this podcast channel, which is, and will always be for free. And leave a review to help it reach more people. If you'd like to support this podcast, which I would, of course, really appreciate. Please check out my website. Set Alex. Dot org, where you can also get yourself a free book available in 20 languages. About animal rights and philosophy. Until the next episode, keep in mind the actual power of the individual.