Animal Rights & Civil Disobedience, with Amy Soranno

In the 8th episode of the Principles of Change podcast, I discuss activism, civil disobedience and more with grassroots animal rights activist, Amy Soranno. Amy has been active for years despite a rare disease that makes it painful and difficult for her to do everything she's doing. She and 2 other activists are now facing potential jail time due to their civil disobedience.

In Today's Episode:

• Intro
• Amy's background
• Amy's disability
• Civil disobedience events
• Consequences of Amy's activism
• Amy's future plans
• Advice on Activism
• Amy's Principles of Change

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Transcript

Intro

Amy Soranno 0:00

No matter what, in any sort of circumstance, if you see injustice, you see something wrong is happening, whether it's human or non-human do what's right. And as I mentioned earlier, don't let fear, um, guide your choices and your actions like really act from a place of courage and authenticity. Um, I believe in constant growth and learning and self-development as a human, but also as an activist, I think it's so important for us to not feel comfortable

MIC2 0:29

That was Amy Serrano. And this is the eighth episode of the principles of change podcast. My name is Alex. I'm an animal rights activist and lecturer And the author of the ebook one animal rights and logic means that you can download in 20 languages for free on my website. On this show, I try to bring people who I believe are game changers and very inspiring in order to make sure. That every single listener. Leaves feeling motivated and inspired to take action, to fight for a better world. Today's guest Amy Serrano is an amazing and very inspiring grassroots animal rights activist. Her actions during the past years to raise awareness about animal rights. I have ended up with her and several other activists being in court. Potentially facing jail time. Now I do want to quickly say that this episode was recorded months ago. And the court case that we are talking about has already started for that reason. I will share a few updates for two. Before we start the episode The non-violent civil disobedience events that Amy helped organize and took part in. Has really made the animal I culture industry go all in. And try to do their best to make these activists goal behind the bars. Since the recording they have had already. The pretrial hearings. They have exposed serious misconduct by the police and the BC SPCA. The judge has implemented the publication ban On their case, one of the defendants had their charges dropped at the lawyers, argued abuse of process by the BC SPCA. The courts haven't provided an official explanation for why they drop this case. The three remaining activists facing charges. Nick Roy and Amy. We'll go on trial starting the 27th of June and the Supreme court now facing a combined 18 indomitable offenses and the potential of decades in prison. If convicted the trial is scheduled for four weeks until July 21st. Now Amy has asked me to encourage anyone local to attend the trial, to watch. As it's open to the public, showing that there is an overwhelming amount of support for them in the courtroom and that people care about. These animal issues, this will strongly influence the jury and demonstrate to them that their decision is extremely important. For those who can't be there in person, they have updates and calls to action on their website. I will leave the link in the description below. Including an email people can send and petition. They can sign. They also have a go fund, me that you can contribute to in order to help and the hundreds of thousands of dollars In legal fees And they're also selling t-shirts on their website in order to raise some funding for this issue. now this being said i hope you enjoy listening to this conversation and feel inspired i'll see you on the other side

Seb Alex 3:28

Amy, thank you so much for making time for this. I know how busy you are with everything that you're up to all the time. So I really appreciate it. how have you been.

Amy Soranno 3:37

well, firstly, thank you for having me. It's such an honor, especially all the other amazing guests on your podcast. Like who the heck am I to be? But um, yeah,

Seb Alex 3:48

that now we will hear all of that.

Amy Soranno 3:51

Yeah. W well, yeah, we'll get into it, but, um, I'm doing, I'm doing well. Canada is pretty on fire right now and we just finished being evacuated. So it's a little hectic, but, um, it is what it is.

Seb Alex 4:05

Wow. I've been well. And fortunately, I don't have that issue here, but it does sound really intense. It's actually, there's so much going on around the world. Even back home for me, Lebanon there's forest on fire there's stuff happening in Europe and there's stuff happening in places that we will never hear about because it's not really important for news media, like channels to share about them. But I'm glad that you have been evacuated and you're safe. And hopefully that will all come to an end. And before we continue into getting in all the details I wanted to ask you, if you can give a quick background story of who you are, where you're from, just for the listeners who haven't heard about you yet, um, learn more about you.

Amy Soranno 4:48

Okay. Um, my name is Amy Serrano. I'm a Canadian animal rights. I, Hmm, how do I introduce myself? I engage in civil disobedience events. I organize a lot of mass actions. Um, I've been arrested several times and I'm facing trial, which I'm sure we'll get into. Um, and I also, I'm a public speaker, so I give talks and workshops on activism and civil disobedience. Um, yeah, that's about it.

Amy's background

Seb Alex 5:22

Only, I actually have seen many of your talks on YouTube. And, uh, for those of you are listening, I will be putting all the, uh, relative links in the description. So definitely check them out. They're really, really inspiring. very motivating as well. And could you tell us, how did you become vegan? What happened exactly that you decided to take that step in your life?

Amy Soranno 5:48

Well, I'm about eight years ago now I suddenly became very sick. So I came down with the condition and, um, through my journey of trying to get well, um, And I basically exhausted every single doctor in my city, every doctor in my country, they then sent me off to the states and I went to some of the largest medical centers there. So I started to very quickly become frustrated with the medical system and fearful that I'm not getting well and that there isn't options for me. And so I started researching and looking into ways of healing myself, if that's possible. And of course on that journey, I came across plant-based diets. And so I just dive right in. I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this? It's healing people. There's all these different diseases. And they're just disappearing. I need to know more. And I don't know if it will help me, but I need to try. And so I definitely did. Um, and through that, I also found documentaries like how SecureUs C and earthlings, and I watched forks over knives, casts, bureaucracy, and earthlings all in one weekend. And. I wasn't just plant-based for my health. I was beacon and I was vegan for the animals. Um, so it definitely like veganism stemmed from health, I suppose you could say, but, um, yeah, I became vegan pretty the animals.

Seb Alex 7:11

Wow. That's really great. And I remember when I first found your page a few years ago, um, a few months after that, I think there was a big action that you had organized, or you were part of in Canada, and there was amazing an amazing video of it. So the video was a bit similar to a quick documentary of what happens during that action. And I remember I wanted to watch it again. So I went on YouTube and I just wrote Amy Serrano a documentary just because like I thought it would pop up. And I remember I landed on another documentary that was about you. And that's how I learned about your medical condition. And I asked you in advance, if you can talk about this, because I think obviously for you to go everything you went through and silicide to dedicate so much of your time, um, for the animals. And I'm pretty sure sometimes even putting your. Not as a priority, something, I hope that you can stop doing take care of yourself in a better way as, as much as possible. Of course. Can we talk about that? Because I find when I, when I learned about it, I reached out to you and I asked like, is it okay if I, if I share about this because you haven't. And I thought that you wanted to keep it a secret, but then you said, no, it's because I don't want to get the focus on me. I want to keep it on the animals, but it doesn't have to be this or that. I think it's extremely inspiring that you're even able to do everything that you're doing. So if we can talk about that a bit, I think would be really great.

Amy Soranno 8:38

Well, I appreciate your perspective and thank you for saying that. Um, why don't I talk about it? Um, I suppose partly my own internalized ableism, maybe there's still a lot of work to do even people who are disabled or do who do have conditions. I mean, we have work to do in that

Seb Alex 9:00

Yeah.

Amy Soranno 9:02

there are times where I'm embarrassed or I'm ashamed, or it makes me potentially from the outside looking in seem weak or not as strong as I want to be perceived. You know, I'm going up against big industries, you know, I want, I want them to fear me. And if I, I don't know if I open up and be vulnerable about, um, you know, my plate, I feel like that's a weak spot. Um, whether it is or isn't, I don't know, but that's how I feel. And at the beginning of my activism journey, um, The first activism events I went to, I was in a wheelchair and I saw how people treated me. And I saw how me as an advocate. Um, I wasn't seen as someone who was valued, I remember going to an outreach event, um, uh, keep of truth. And I showed up with my wheelchair because I can't stand for long periods of time. I have a heart condition. And, um, she said, Amy, go over in that corner over there. And so I'm like, okay. I thought she was just trying to get me out of the way for awhile. And then she set up the queue and I was kind of observing and like, okay, I guess I'm not a part of the cube. And then I was like, maybe she wants me to do outreach. I don't know. And then the events started going on and on. And she said, oh no, you can't be a part of this because it'll throw off the aesthetics and it won't look as good. It won't look as put together. And you know, it's like a small area. There's not.

Seb Alex 10:29

Oh,

Amy Soranno 10:30

And so I, like, I think there's situations like that. There's been so many situations in my life where I've experienced that and been really talked down to, um, because of my condition. And it's mainly really, really embarrassed. I want to go to marches. I want to go and be involved in stuff like this, but I can't, I physically can't. So unless I'm in a wheelchair or, you know, I don't know having medical intervention, I don't know. So I guess to like dive in and to talk about exactly like what's going on with me, um, we still don't even really know I'm a part of a medical study that's happening worldwide. Um, they think that I have like a mutation or some sort of like weird genetic variance that's causing, um, all of a sudden it happened, um, dysfunction in my entire body. So every organ, every muscle, every joint, every connective tissue, everything is just off. Um, and so all of a sudden, overnight I developed, I think I have around like 14, 15 different diagnoses. And so didn't make sense and it doesn't make sense to any of my doctors, why all of a sudden I would have all these different ailments, so they must be interconnected. We just don't know how, um, so I go through a lot of research studies and I think that in a sense, even though I'm consenting to those research studies, it does make me think of the animals who are in laboratories and being tested on. Um, they're not consenting to that. And ultimately they're often killed. I'm not, but. The horrific things I've had to injure in order to just to try and figure out what's going on with me. I mean, it's shocking. And when it comes to agism, I would say one of the biggest things that does set me back is, um, a condition that affects my, um, autonomic nervous system, which ultimately affects my organs, including my heart. So basically my heart and my blood and arteries, they don't account for gravity anymore. So typically like, you know, if you're lying down for a while and then you stand up really fast and you kind of get lightheaded and dizzy and then your body kind of sorts itself out. Um, so I always have that. So if I'm upright, if I'm sitting or standing that's happening and it progressively gets worse and worse and worse until eventually I need to lie down or I pass out or something. Um, so basically my body doesn't regulate all my blood drops to my hands and my feet. And then my heart starts pumping really fast, trying to get blood back up to my brain and to my organs. Um, but it doesn't mean. The blood doesn't go up. And so it just progressively gets worse and worse. I get shaky, I get nauseous, I get weak. Um, and because of all of this stuff, it makes my brain get foggy. I get confused. Um, it's affected my memory, so many things. So when we, when we talk about activism, it's made it really, really difficult. And, um, I give talks and so like trying to focus and like have conversations and all of this is happening in the background. Um, it's made activism really, really difficult, but, um, for the first few years of my illness, I didn't leave the bat. Like the only people I saw, I'm not even joking. We're doctors and my mom and Nick, my partner, um, they were the only people I saw for. The only places I ever went outside of my house were hospitals, ambulances. Um, and so that really affected my view of the world, my mental health, everything. And I realized how important it is to have a purpose. Even if you are disabled, even if you do have illnesses that are all consuming. Um, I think it's important to not solely focus on that. And it was imperative for me to have a focus outside of myself, to have someone else I'm fighting for. And to recognize that the animals are suffering worse than I am far worse than I am. And I feel like I need to get them everything I have, whether that's making a Instagram post while I'm lying in bed, or whether that's fighting on the front lines, I just need to do what I can. And it's been really, really tricky to. Not be out there all the time. I know that I would be able to do far more for the animals, which is really frustrating. Um, if I wasn't sick, I would be out there every single day. I would be doing stuff constantly, but, um, yeah, it's a weird balancing act. Anyways. I'll stop rambling on about that.

Seb Alex 15:00

no, thank you for sharing that and being open and vulnerable. I really shared it. And, um, I do want to say quickly that. The fact that you're doing everything you're doing, um, has already made a lot of people get active. So even though you're not able to always be out there and this podcast is going to be one of the reasons other people are there, thanks to you doing things that you're doing as well. And I want to go back a bit about some of the things you mentioned, like not being in the cube because they said the aesthetics wouldn't be good. I think that's so disgusting. And also very weird because I've been to many cubes where the. People who are in a wheelchair and inside the cube, not only do I think that it has nothing to do with this subject. I also think it's a very powerful message. In many ways. One of them is that vegans can look like anything can be, anything can have anything, you know, not every vegan is fit muscly man, or a fit woman. You know, there there's all kinds of shapes and, and disabilities. And one of the reasons that I did want to bring it up is to raise awareness about invisible disabilities, um, because literally anyone could go on your page and they would never know that you are suffering from that. And I think it's good to raise awareness about this because I realized something I've done once that I realized on the spot, if I had been more aware of invisible disabilities, or just the idea of disabilities and obstacles that people have, I wouldn't have. Thought what I thought. And I'll, I'll tell you the example. I was at a venture Fest and there was a talk I don't remember what the title was, but it was about disabilities and the vegan movement. So obviously I wanted to join because I studied architecture and in architecture, what a lot of people don't think is for example, the S the second I get to a cafe, or I'm about to cross the street, I pay attention. Whether I like it or not, whether or not a person on a, on a wheelchair can enter, the cafe can get on the sidewalk, because that's the step one of architecture. You have to make sure everyone can access everything. And I entered, this talk because I was interested in, it was a very big hole. And when I entered the person giving the talk, it was sitting down and I hadn't at this point, practice architecture for years. So it was no longer on my mind. I was like, I'm an, I'm an, a bitch Fest. I'm not thinking about those things. And my first reaction was who gives the toxic. You're going to, you're going to give a talk. You have to, you're going to inspire people now. And then literally a few seconds later, I was like, what are you thinking about? You know, look, look at the subject of the talk you've come to watch. Now, how could you not take into consideration the idea that maybe this person cannot stand up? And the worst part is. It is also invisible to the naked eye. if someone lands on your Instagram page, you're not going to think about the obstacles that you have because it doesn't show to the naked eye. So I think at least for me, what I thought about asking you, if you can talk about this, this was the reason, because I think it's very, because there's still many people who who are going to be listening to this and they probably have invisible disabilities and they probably will feel inspired and motivated and even identify with what you're going through. Something that I can do. So really I appreciate so much that. Yeah, I am sure I can say I hope so. I am sure that you're going through everything, you're going through, like you said yourself, you're in a study, like a worldwide study to see what's going on. That's not easy. And, I find that so powerful. It just shows how much strength you have. And I think that that's really important for people to see and hear from this podcast to remember that there are these points in, in your heart and mind and soul that you can reach that much strength. And of course, you're going to have ups and downs. I'm not talking, I'm not, I'm not, I don't think that you are always out there feeling great. I know there are ups and downs, but, um, yeah.

Amy Soranno 19:06

I mean, even just for this podcast where I'm in the comfort of my home and I'm not going out and doing anything, like I have to take medication in order to be able to physically do this. And that's, I mean, just little things for me, like a big part of my illness is that, any form of stimulation sets me off really bad and causes full body pain to the point where all my muscles contract into basically as hard as cement and they don't stop for potentially weeks. and so anything light sound, conversation, anything motion being in a car, anything we'll set that off. So, I mean, it's never ending, there's never a point in my life. Where I'm not in a lot of pain and I'm not struggling. it's just about pushing through that. And I think, I don't know, I guess really trying to be selfless and think about others. I have to focus on other animals and what they're going through. And when I do that, when I'm going through, doesn't even matter. It's really interesting what you said about someone giving a talk sitting down because that's been a huge, huge insecurity. Mine. I'm a public speaker. And like I would, I talk about is really intense and I want it, I want to light that fire in people and get them motivated and excited to go out and take action if I'm just sitting there that, I mean, it's exactly what you said is it's like, I don't know. And one of my talks, which heat is another one, he totally messes me up. And, I was invited to a veggie Fest and it was this outdoor, um, speaking facility.

Seb Alex 20:38

I'm going to interrupt you. I was going to mention that because that's the first talk that I saw and I was going to say you were sitting down and you didn't fail at encouraging me and motivating me. So go ahead.

Amy Soranno 20:50

Okay, well, that's good to hear that's saying that, but that was such an insecurity in mine. And I remember even talking to the organizers and being embarrassed to say that, oh, I'm going to bring a chair and I have to sit down. but the first thing I said, when I got out there is that I'm going to take a seat. And I, like, I explained why I'm sitting down and then it, I'm not being lazy. I'm not trying to be less engaging, but I have to sit down and I just felt the need to say that. before I started speaking out about animals, I did talk a lot about my. I think that that was, like a people's fault way back on my Instagram. I dunno, I might've deleted a lot of stuff, but my primary focus was talking about disabilities. And once I started becoming way more involved in animal rights, part of the insecurity is also the fact that a huge draw to get people to go vegan is health. And we talk about it all the time that it's like, this is the healthiest way to eat and live, and it will cure X, Y, and Z. And I think for so many privileged people who have never had an ailment in their life, I think they do look at veganism and a plant-based diet as the cure all. And when everyone always looks at me and says, okay, so now that you're vegan, how do you feel now? And to say, oh, well, I'm the same. If not worse, that feels really shitty. That doesn't feel like. I don't know the poster child for veganism when so many other people stand up and give talks about how it's cure their asthma and their cancer. but just still be sick. I don't know. Does that make sense?

Seb Alex 22:34

It makes a lot of sense that I can identify with that, not on a personal level, but as you may know, I lost my father in February, um, to COVID and he was healthy and he was vegan and he was exercising every day. And then to come across all these posts and recently, even a study that showed that 73% chances are, if you're eating a plant-based diet, the impact of COVID would not be as intense as on other people. even if the percentage is small, it's still a percentage and it sucks to be the person or not a person who has the minority percentage. Um, so no, yeah, vegan diet is not a cure-all. It will definitely never be as unhealthy as a non plant exclusive diets. That's for sure. But it's definitely not a cure all. And just because you're vegan doesn't mean you're never going to get cancer. It doesn't mean you're never going to die of heart disease or anything like that. You can, all of these things can happen. The chances are smaller. That's just it. And with some diseases it's not related at all, like it's just that good. Okay. You're eating healthy foods, that's it? Nothing will change about your disease. So I completely can understand that. And, um, I want to talk about this later on in the, in the podcast cause I had it written down, but you did say it used the word cement and it reminded me, of the events where you did use cements. I was just wondering, did it ever happen that in the middle of an action you had something happened to you or the medicine, or the medications there to prevent that.

Amy Soranno 24:06

Um, I am very, very cognizant of my health and what it takes in order for me to do certain things and the lead up. So, um, I talked with doctors, I do what's required in order to get me there, but sometimes that doesn't always work. there are no like treatments or, or help for me really. It's just about symptom management. And even then really nothing has worked, cementing my arm, um, and lying on the ground of a slaughterhouse floor for I think, six hours. Um, that was intense and that caused a lot of pain, but, but I got through it and I was fine. And in comparison to the animals who were then killed subsequently after that, um, It's just, it's not comparable. Um, the meet, the victims action that I organized in Canada in Abbotsford BC in 2019, um, I led the whole inside team and I did all the police negotiations and everything. And I was standing pretty much the entire time. I kept crouching down to try and like, get my heart to calm down a bit and get the blood flowing and then I would stand up and then I approached down again and then I'd stand up. And again, even then, as the leader, as a person who's talking to the police, who's there was one guy who stood there from start to finish. He didn't leave it. It felt to me, I mean, maybe no one else noticed it, but to me when I was kept crouching down like that, it just felt like not very assertive and not really like a leadership stand, you know? Um, but I remember, um, one of our negotiations was met, which was for the media to, to wear inside the facility. And I was allowed to walk around with them for that to work. And during that time, I basically couldn't see anything. I was seeing stars the entire time and I was like dizzy and I was not walking straight. Um, and I couldn't talk properly and it was all just like a huge mess and no one else knew what was going on. Um, but it was really intense and I was like, oh fuck, I'm going to pass out. Like, this is going to happen. And sorry, I think his score, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear

Seb Alex 26:12

That's fine. That's fine.

Amy Soranno 26:13

Okay. Um, but yeah, like how I was okay. Um, I ended up in jail and so like that wasn't that great either for my symptoms, but my lawyer was aware of what I needed and, um, yeah. Communicated that with the police, which I think is really important. But yeah, I mean, it happens all the time, getting media interviews. I mean, we'll probably get into this, but I'm going through a court case right now. And, for the group of four of us, I'm the media spokesperson. And so after. Uh, day in court, which is already really taxing, um, to then go outside and stand standing again, um, in front of media cameras and answer all their questions. Given media statement, that's really, really hard for me. Um, but yeah, I don't know we can move on, but yeah, it's tough. And there's other activists who go through. We were first in my heart, goes out to them, but, um, it can be done. We can, we can get shit done.

Civil disobedience events

Seb Alex 27:14

Okay. So I wanted to see what is the first ever events that you organize? from what I remember, there was one connected to the rip Fest and where you did civil disobedience and you locked down and everything. So can you talk about your first ever event of civil disobedience and how did you feel as an activist who was engaging in civil disobedience for the first time?

Amy Soranno 27:38

The first events. I organize it. I don't know if you've considered a civil disobedience, but they were vigils. Um, and that's what led to my civil disobedience. So we would go night after night to the slaughter house and would watch these trucks of animals being led to their deaths. Um, and every single time other activists felt empowered, they felt good leaving that. I felt so frustrated and so angry at myself that I allowed that to happen. that I started going into these farms and going into these slaughterhouses by myself, also taking further action at these vigils. So just because there's a gate doesn't mean that we can't cross that cave. And just because they're telling us no doesn't mean that we have to abide by that. Um, but the first really big. Um, civil disobedience event where other people were involved was meet the victims. So I went in pretty head-first there. Um, there was over 200 people who attended that and, um, we had done an investigation at this pig, farm revealed criminal animal cruelty, as well as legal animal cruelty. Of course. Um, and I said, we need more activists in here and we need to make this a media story. We need to publicize this. People need to know that this is happening right in their backyard. So I took those 200 plus people with me in buses, and we went down there. Um, 65 of us went inside the farm for over eight hours and we live streamed and filmed and said, we're not leaving until the media is allowed. So. Um, which as we just described, the media was allowed inside and then we laughed and then myself and three others are in charge for that event. Um, and the other investigations linked to that farm. But, um, how did I feel? That's what you asked, right? How did I feel?

Seb Alex 29:34

Yes. Because, um, I'm, I'm guessing if people wonder about what it's like to take part in such an event, what, what are the thoughts that go through an activist? Smile? Of course, it's never going to be the same from one person to another, but specifically what you, how, how did it feel to do that?

Amy Soranno 29:51

so much, so I would say taking action alone is different than reading people. There was so much else piled on top of the usual fears and the usual, um, adrenaline, but also. Um, taking care of these people who are relying on you and I'm trusting you to do this, it's a lot. Um, but I would say a big, big feeling that comes up, I would say consistently with a lot of people is fear, but I would say that fear is normal. Fear should be expected. Um, but that doesn't mean that we should listen to that. And I, I think courage is stronger than fear. And I think when we strongly feel that what we're doing is right, that courage can take over and it should take over. Um, it feels really shitty going into these places. I hate going into farms and slaughterhouses. I hate the activists have to do this really traumatic, awful work. And I have developed, um, PTSD symptoms because of some of the work that I've done, um, and depression and like a whole slew of things, but I wouldn't change it. Um,

Seb Alex 31:03

Yeah.

Amy Soranno 31:04

The only thing that I regret is not doing that sort of activism sooner, not knowing sooner. Um, and of course I wish I could do more. Um, but I think when you take that sort of action, there's really nothing more you could possibly do. And so I do think it gives that sort of validation that I'm doing everything I possibly can to create change. I'm not just being, um, what would be the word like complacent, I guess, in my actions that I'm taking direct action, I'm going to the source. And, um, I think in the system and yeah, I think it's really important to me. It feels far more fulfilling.

Seb Alex 31:43

And can you explain why civil disobedience is important at the center, especially with the animal rights movement.

Amy Soranno 31:53

Well, as I kind of mentioned with the vigil, to me, it just felt right. It didn't feel right standing and letting these things happen. And if there's something I could possibly do, whether that's putting my body on the line to physically stop these trucks or stop the mechanisms of abuse, or I don't know, expose what is happening, then I need to do that. Um, it felt to me it might sound strange, but as natural as breathing, it just made sense. How could I not do everything I possibly can? And when we look at other social justice movements and what it's taken in order to create change, it is non-violent civil disobedience. It is, it's not standing around and handing out leaflets or just having conversations with people or posting on social media. Um, it takes a whole slew of tactics working together, but a really big one is mass nonviolent civil disobedience. And I think we have so much to learn within the animal rights movement. I don't know why more people aren't taking that sort of vital action. But I feel it's important and it's vital and I don't think we'll achieve animal liberation without it.

Seb Alex 33:03

I agree. And something that I have been thinking about recently is, um, you know, as activists, we try so many things, so many tactics, as you said, and we never really know how much it's impacting the industry. Right. But I was thinking about making a YouTube video this week about this, uh, this topic, because I realized, well, they do help us know what is affecting them. It's when they fight back. And two things that they, they have done that proves that it's scaring them. One is target activists, such as yourself or layer Dillinger taking part in civil disobedience, organizing and motivating others. That means that you are a threat second, and this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. The food industry, they fight against calling plant-based food, vegan, milk, vegan cheese, and all these things. That's because it's not good for them. And the fact that they are fighting against that, it makes me happy because it makes me feel like, okay, so food does scare them. These industries do scare them. And it's weird to say because I'm not at all involved with the food industry, but I'm happy that people have the ability and the imagination and the money to do all of that, because that is a tactic that is obviously a scaring them. And I think it's fair to say that when you see them fight back against a certain activist or an activism group, then it's usually means. It bothered them enough to take action, to try to stop you. If they're not trying to stop you, chances are you're not effective. It's more like, ah, okay, okay. Let them do that. You know? Um, so I think that is a fair way. At least one of the fairways. I don't know if there are any other ways that to check how effective we are and I wanted to talk. Sure, go ahead.

Amy Soranno 34:52

So one other way. So after meet the victims that inspired, I think three other mass actions to happen across Canada meet the victims was the first action of this kind in the country that we are aware of. Um, and so within, I think, a year. For actions that took place across the country in different provinces. And as a result of that, the industry lobbied so hard to implement agricultural geek laws. So ag,

Seb Alex 35:17

I got, yeah.

Amy Soranno 35:19

um, and they have successfully passed them in some provinces. And this is as a direct result, which they have even stated themselves of activist actions, just for actions in an entire country has caused the entire industry and a nation to lobby for laws in order to stop us from doing that. Because what we do is so effective and it's so powerful that they need us to go away.

Seb Alex 35:45

Yeah. And those laws don't come free of charge. They're doing a lot of lobbying. They're spending money, they're spending time on doing it. So obviously every time they try to do, they try to do something to make what you're doing illegal or put an obstacle. It's usually a motivation for you to do it more often. You can.

Amy Soranno 36:05

Exactly.

Seb Alex 36:07

Um, can you talk about, uh, some of the goals that you've had and, um, if you have achieved any of them while using, um, civil disobedience, um, or at least a disruption of some kind again, I think about the, the, the time that I think if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong. Um, it was, uh, before the meet the victims event, when you and other activists, uh, sat down outside the offices of, um, of a festival and again, top not needing a tie yourself, but you use some kind of, I don't know how to explain it. Maybe you can explain it. You're much better with that.

Amy Soranno 36:45

Um, so this is after meet the victims, um, because red Fest, which is like this traveling barbecue festival that goes across Canada. And I think the states each summer, um, so for many, many years we have protested red Fest. So when the festival is happening, we stand outside with signs. And again, that frustrates the hell out of me because what the heck are we doing? Are we really being effective? People are still wandering into the festival and it's still taking place. Like, why aren't we preventing this from happening? Surely we can do that somehow. Um, and so we started getting a bit more strategic and figuring out who are the sponsors of the event? Like where does the money to fund this happen? Um, who were all the different industries involved, like garbage removal and they need access to water and, you know, like all the different. Systems that need to take place in order for this event to happen. And we started targeting them and sending, we started by sending out emails and phone calls and stuff like that. And then we started progressing, um, our actions a bit and the biggest player. So their number one sponsor was a bank. And so we had several meetings with our, we tried to set up several meetings with them. They went and talked with us. Um, we did talking events outside, we did street blockades outside, and then I said, okay, F this, we know they're in the negotiation process right now, or maybe they've just passed it. We didn't know at that point, but we need this bank to take us seriously and we need to show them that this is a huge issue. So Rick Fest gets their ribs from Excelsior hog farms. So that's the farm that we went to for meet the victims. So not only is it unethical anyways, but, um, we also had that extra element of who no criminal animal cruelty is taking place. There. We have terrific footage. Watch it. Do you really support that? Is that where your money's going? Not only that, but that summer Canada declared a national climate crisis for VIN by animal agriculture. So, I mean, there's just this whole slew of like evidence that should show any sort of sponsor that they shouldn't be involved in this. So what we did is we took PVC piping, which you can get at a hardware store and we took, um, What do they call it? I don't know what they're called, but we took, um, chains and Ratched and run our wrists. And we put our arms through these tubes, change our chains together. So we had like my arms blown in a tube. Another person's arms is going in the other side of the two, if that makes sense. And our risks are chained together inside. And so we did this outside of the entrances of the bank. There's two main entrances. And, um, and then we had one person sitting right in front of the door and they were physically changed to the door. And so we did this before the, um, the bank even opened to prevent them from opening that morning. And we had a whole ton of media there and he made a huge fuss about the fact that they are paying for criminal animal cruelty and they are further funding, our gaining chronic crisis, et cetera, et cetera. So we said, we're not leaving until they, they end their sponsorship. I knew. Right then and there, they likely couldn't make that decision, but that was our demand. And after many, many hours, they, um, they had one of our spokespeople go inside and kind of negotiate and talk with the bank people. Um, they weren't budging, they didn't want to talk about rip fast, but the organizers of rip test contacted us and said, okay, fine. We'll sit down and talk. So we got trucked away and sent to jail and Zebert arrested. Um, which is fine. It drew, drew more attention to the issue, but it did get us a step closer. We didn't get ultimately what we wanted, but it did get us a step closer. And now we're very much aware of where the organizers stand. They know where we stand and God forbid, if they have another event, they expect chaos because chaos will ensue. So yeah, I just think you're not always gonna like, quote unquote win. You might get steps closer, but. Yeah, I guess that's one example of escalating tactics too. Yeah. I get a little bit closer to our goals.

Consequences of Amy's activism

Seb Alex 41:00

I think it's really amazing. Um, and a great idea to target the sponsors, everyone who is involved, and this is something that other campaigns have done as well. So that's absolutely amazing. Can we talk about the trouble you haven't gotten for everything you do and the court case that you have right now?

Amy Soranno 41:19

Yeah. So, um, I've been arrested several times. Most of my charges have been dropped, but when it comes to Excelsior hog farm, so the meet the victims action, as well as the investigations. Um, prior to that actual. I, they are throwing the book at us for that. So, um, myself and three others were now known as the Excelsior for we are facing a combined 21 invadable offenses. Um, so indictable offenses in Canada is the highest criminal level. So that's on par with murder, terrorism, et cetera. Um, and this is for nonviolent action. So this is for going inside of a farm, turning on our cameras and pressing record and leaving. Um, not only that, but the farmers had no idea that we had gone on to their property. Um, allegedly and there there's no evidence. There's no destruction. There's no vandalism. There's no theft. There's no nothing. Um, it's just simply video record. Um, and I guess what is seen as most significant is that hidden cameras were planted inside the farm. So we do have footage of the farmers conducting their day-to-day jobs, which include criminal animal cruelty. Um, so we documented the workers chopping off the tails of day old piglets and ripping out the testicles without any anesthesia. Uh, we have footage of the mother, pigs can find inside gestation and farrowing crates where they can't even take more than one step forward or backwards, um, or turn around their entire lives. Um, we have footage of them, electric proddings pigs in the face over and over again, punching and kicking them, um, including the kids that these farmers like little, I would say three or four year old kids, teenagers who are going in and doing this work and conducting this cruelty as well. Um, and just perpetuating this sort of system of violence. So, I guess, revealing that is seen as threatening enough to want to criminalize and put us for activists in prisons. So this coming March, we will start the pre-trial. And then in June we start trial, which will be like, I think two months long, which is extensive extensive for non-violent activist actions. So, um, right now the court is saying that they are pushing for significant jail sentences for all four of us. Um, I don't know what that means, or if that's even a possibility, but we will face jury in the Supreme court and see what happens.

Seb Alex 43:52

Just come to Lebanon. I'll I'll, I'll I'll shelter all for a few, like, uh, that is, that is intense. And to think that you have to worry and the anxiety that comes with all of that and everything you're going through on a personal level. Wow. It's it shows how much you, you shook the industry. That's for sure. That's that's for sure. And, um, one of the future plans is to deal with this. Do you have any other future plans?

Amy's future plans

Amy Soranno 44:28

Well with our court case, we not only, so we told our lawyers that we're not just looking to get off on our charges. We were using this as a platform to talk about the animals and to reveal what's happening to them. Um, but there's so many other problems with the industry that we really want to target throughout this court case. So one being the fact that criminal animal cruelty was clearly documented, um, that was sent to the appropriate authorities and nothing happened so clearly. Animal protein enforcement when it comes to farm to animals, which as activists know, is very, very much inadequate and they need to be held accountable. So here in British Columbia, um, the SPCA or the people who enforce that, um, so we are calling on the government to take over animal law enforcement, um, for farmed animals so that there is greater transparency and accountability because the SPCA is a charity. So you can't file an FLI. There's no accountability, there's no transparency whatsoever. Um, someone could get an animal cruelty report sent in and they could throw it in the garbage and no one would know about it and they are donor donor base. So primarily cat and dog lovers are paying this organization to Bron. And so that's where ultimately their resources. It's towards sheltering and whatnot. Um, even though the majority of animal cruelty that takes place across the world, but here in BC is on farms. Um, so that's a huge problem. We're also calling for the industry to implement mandatory CCTV live streaming cameras inside of every agriculture facility, every farm, every slaughterhouse to ensure that, um, all the practices are clearly documented and available to the public, because if they don't want activists like us going inside to get that footage, then they need to take steps to ensure that transparency. And so that the public is actually consenting when they go to the grocery store and they go to a restaurant they're consenting to what they're purchasing. They know exactly what it took in order for that piece of flesh or those secretions to end up on their plates. And right now that's not happening. The public isn't aware. Um, aside from that, did you say my goals or what what's happening in

Seb Alex 46:43

Future plans. Yeah. If you have anything planned talks, workshops, whatever.

Advice on activism

Amy Soranno 46:49

yeah, so in, I'm not sure when this will be aired, but in two weeks I am going to California to the animal liberation conference. I was asked to speak on a panel there. So that's pretty exciting. And from there I am flying to Toronto, um, and I will be getting up to mischief there. You'll have to wait and see what happens, but, um, that's pretty exciting as well. And I'm also working on a campaign right now called BFF BC, which is short for fan for farms. BC being British Columbia. Um, so throughout the pandemic myself and, uh, three of my girlfriends, um, we're all talking about activism and how frustrated we are. Like we're not out on the front lines doing stuff. Um, and we also talked a lot about the difference between individual change versus system change. And all three of us agreed that we really need to start targeting systems more. Um, the systems being the systems that oppress and allow animals to be killed and murdered. Um, and so we started thinking about what could be an achievable goal. What's a big enough goal that we'll have a splash in the industry, but what's achievable that we could actually potentially win. And we were looking at also, um, what are some triggers that are happening right now? And a big one is obviously COVID and in British Columbia, we have several for farms, most of which being mink and. As most of us probably know there has been outbreaks of COVID-19 on make farms across the world. And that has happened here in BC at several facilities. And so we thought, okay, there's a real chance to ban for farms here, um, by using COVID-19 as sort of this catalyst. And so, yeah, we've been working really hard on that. And so far, I think we're just a couple months in and so far we've thought the government to, um, implement a moratorium on for farms. So they're not allowed to breed any more mink and they're also disallowing any new for farms. So there was two applications for new for firms that were in the process of being passed, um, over the pandemic and because of our, um, pressure on them, I guess they have decided that no, we're not going to allow any more applications and we're not coming to accept these two new ones.

Seb Alex 49:10

Wow.

Amy Soranno 49:11

Um, so yeah, we're going to keep the pressure there and see what happens, but hopefully we're successful.

Seb Alex 49:17

All right. And, um, what advice would you give to your old self who is about to start doing activism?

Amy Soranno 49:28

Hmm. Good question

Seb Alex 49:31

You're like, where do I start?

Amy's core principles of change

Amy Soranno 49:34

so much. Um, okay. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is I think a lot of us, which I understand, um, we jumped into activism because we're so desperate to do something. Um, we learn about these injustices and we learn about activism and we just want to jump in and do something, anything, um, most of the time, especially at the beginning, it's rather ineffective. Uh, we're just kinda standing there. The whole thing assign, maybe we don't really know what we're doing. And for me, at least at the beginning, um, like red Fest was one of my first protests. So I showed up and I held a sign and I wasn't really sure, like what was, what was I trying to do exactly. Was I raising awareness? Was I trying to stop people from going in the, I wasn't quite sure what I was doing. Um, and looking back, there's so many instances where I'm just like, what it's I consider it pop for an activism. I always refer to it as pop for an activism where it's these one-off events here and there and all over the place. And there's not really a strong strategy, uh, around exactly what we're doing. Um, and therefore I don't really find it that effective. So I would say like, take, take a step back and like harness that motivation into some solid research. Look at other past social justice movements, really research animal activism. Like what do you feel compelled to do and why. And who do you feel is really being effective right now? And why are they being so effective? And how can I do that? Um, yeah, that's what I would say. Just like stronger tactics, stronger strategy, I think in act or in the animal liberation of specifically, I think a lot of us get really stuck on certain tactics. Um, there's a lot of street outreach. There's a lot of vigils. Um, and there's a lot of social media. And I think that those are solid tactics when used in a campaign when used in conjunction with other tactics to make them stronger. There is a place for every tactic. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying don't do those things. I'm saying don't rely on it as your sole form of activism. At least for myself. That's what I would say.

Seb Alex 51:45

Okay. Thank you. And to add things, I always ask my guests, what are your core principles that are driving you to fight for change in swarms?

Amy Soranno 51:57

Loaded question. I'd say the biggest thing that always, pushes me, which maybe it's, um, like individual, I don't know, but it's just do what's right. No matter what, in any sort of circumstance, if you see injustice, you see something wrong is happening, whether it's human or non-human do what's right. And as I mentioned earlier, don't let fear, um, guide your choices and your actions like really act from a place of courage and authenticity. Um, I believe in constant growth and learning and self-development as a human, but also as an activist, I think it's so important for us to not feel comfortable. As we also just talked about, I really strongly value, um, being effective and strategic, utilizing different tactics and like harnessing our passion. Um, I value rebellion. I value, civil disobedience and collective liberation and nonviolence. and I would say inspiring and educating others to do the same.

Seb Alex 53:03

Thank you so much, Amy. Uh, this has been amazing. definitely could talk for longer, but maybe we can leave that for another episode in the future, who knows maybe, hopefully when you have won the case and achieved more amazing things. Uh, I really, really appreciate your time and thank you for your activism. It has motivated me not only now, but in the past as well, many times. So I can, I am one of those people who finds a lot of motivation and inspiration in your dedication, um, in your fight for animal rights. So thank you so much for making time for this.

Amy Soranno 53:37

No. Thank you for making time for this conversation.

Seb Alex 53:41

Thank you.

MIC2 53:44

I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. As much as I enjoyed having the conversation with Amy. I'm sure you would all agree with me that she is one very inspiring and committed activists. I would like to ask you, if you have found any value in this episode to maybe share it on your social media channels, or at least send it to one friend who you believe. We'll find this interesting or we'll find. Some inspiration to get more active or active in any way. For the environment, the animals and the world and society that will even in this day and age. if you would like to support my activism and this show. Feel free to check out my websites up alex.org, where you can find more information on what I do. Thank you again for listening and i'll see you in the next episode