Fluency w/ Dr. Durell Cooper
Fluency w/ Dr. Durell Cooper
Season IV, Ep. 3 feat. Marlon Meikle
Marlon Meikle is an LA-based educator, arts administrator, actor, MC/Host, playwright and drag queen whose work has been featured on Call Me Kat on FOX, the TLC/Discovery+ Historical Docuseries “Book of Queer,” New York's 59E59 Theater, Le Poisson Rouge, Signature Theatre, Incubator Arts Project, Ars Nova, The Edinburgh Fringe Festival, Cry Havoc Theatre and Joe's Pub. Marlon has presented performance work and workshops at the California Institute of the Arts, Southeastern Theatre Conference, Florida Theatre Conference, and at theatre and performance conferences and festivals across the country. He has worked in university-level programs including his alma mater Southern Methodist University’s Meadows School of the Arts, NYU Tisch School of the Arts, The New York Conservatory for Dramatic Arts and The New School College of Performing Arts in NYC where he was instrumental in launching their Bachelor of Fine Arts in Dramatic Arts program. In addition to his performance work Marlon currently serves as an Associate Director of Admission for Parsons School of Design at The New School in NYC. He is represented by Andy Rooney at Midwest Talent Management | Los Angeles.
Fluency Season IV Ep. 3 w/ Marlon Meikle
[EXCERPT]
My understanding of my queerness now is so vastly different than even when I came out, but I think that something that remains true is that withholding my truth would be harmful not only to myself, but everyone in my orbit. That everyone in my family, everyone in my community would suffer if I didn't do the right thing and the right thing was to live my truth, you know?
[EXCERPT]
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Welcome back listeners to another episode of Fluency and today I am joined by longtime friend, colleague, just someone who I admire so much, and I'm sure you will as well by the end of this conversation. Marlon Meikle, it is so good to see you, or Indigo Day.
Marlon Meikle:
Dai.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Indigo Dai. I mean, you know, you go by many names.
Marlon Meikle:
I go by many names. You can call me whatever you want, as long as you call me, is uh, something a great woman or man once said, uh, I'm not exactly sure. So.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Or like Janet Jackson.
Marlon Meikle:
I've heard that some women kind of like it.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Call me Miss Janet if you nasty. Is that Janet Jackson?
Marlon Meikle:
Call me Miss Janet if you're nasty, but, like, as long as you call me.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
So Marlon, we, we go back
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Quite a ways.
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Back to your days in undergrad.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Yes, I remember I would see you - so we both went to, uh, Southern Methodist University, SMU together. And you were one class ahead of me.
Marlon Meikle:
Allegedly. We have no proof of if I was one class ahead or three or four behind. We were there at a similar time.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Marlon, you're just like an entity. We don't know where it begins and where it ends. It just keeps, it keeps going. I remember I would see you on campus. Back then you had like this, uh, like you don't remember, but back then you had this, this, this afro. You had this fro with blonde highlights. And like everyone -
Marlon Meikle:
That I was doing myself, by the way. Just like in a room, like, just, just burning my hair by myself. Uh, but yeah.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
I, I loved it, but it was so, like, you, you could not mistake that anywhere in Dallas, Texas for anyone else but you, and whenever I would see you, I would just go, Marlon. Marlon! It was brand new each and every time. And for some reason that feeling has never left. Anytime I see you, it still gets me super excited.
Marlon Meikle:
Thank you. Well, again, thank you for having me and for being here. And it is such a pleasure to see your work from this vantage point, uh, from not being you.
(laughter)
And see how meaningful and impactful what you've been doing and talking about has been. So I'm super excited to be here and to chat with you.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, thank you. So let's, let's get into it. So for those who have not known you for as long as I have, tell us a little bit about your origin story, as I like to call it.
Marlon Meikle:
My origin story. Um, so, uh, there's, I, I mean like, we'll get into it. I was born in Jamaica. I, I grew up in South Florida. Lived in a lot of different places and I think that is a part of who I am. This sort of idea that I move around a lot. When I was a toddler, my parents separated. And so, born in Jamaica, I moved to the UK and then back to Jamaica and then to South Florida. And then moved on to college in Dallas. I lived in New York for a while, Atlanta for a while. I live in Los Angeles now. And all of the while on the road and then traveling and like being places and doing things. So I'm a little bit of a busy body.
(Laughing)
But kind of undergirding all of that in terms of work arts, education, a deep desire for sort of equity in that space. And I've had the pleasure of working at performing arts schools for quite some time and now my work is primarily in the fine arts space.
I'm the Associate Director of Admission for Parsons School of Design at The New School. And then I also get the pleasure of, you know, doing something that is slowly becoming illegal across the country, uh, doing drag, as my persona Indigo Dai and traveling around the country doing that as well as doing a bunch of work on Zoom. Um, uh, in drag. And then also being an actor, which I just sometimes call boy drag, cuz it really is just, you know, for me, especially like as a kind of queer, non-binary person, it's sort of like, alright, what do you want me to present as today, world? Do you know? Like, and so, it's really fun to be able to kind of around and, and play, and be able to also spend a good amount of time talking with teenagers who are about to graduate from high school about their hopes and their dreams and their frustrations. It's a constant reminder to me to kind of live my own life as true a way as possible, like to the 18 year old version of me, because I'm like seeing the 18 year old versions of everyone on a regular basis. And, they've got, they've got so much heart. The dream is so big in their eyes. And so it's a constant reminder to stay focused. That's a lot of information, but yeah. Origin story.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Well, you know, a lot goes into an origin story, so thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And you know, I think I want to actually stay there for just a little bit longer because like, thinking back, to, to like, you know, 19, 20 year old Marlon, around the time when I first met you, you were talking about big dreams and like being way mature for your age. You found your way into arts administration, into like school administration very early and, and talk about being a busy body and a hard worker. You were like going to school full-time and also still working for the university even back then as well. What was that like for you to be able to, like, balance all of those things at that age and then kind of seeing how it sort of led very nicely into what you do now in your career as well?
Marlon Meikle:
I think the question for me is always what am I doing and am I having any fun? Right? Like, accepting early on that I've got some anxiety and depression issues that are just present, right? And understanding like what that baseline is. For me, it's always just been about what are the tools that I can have to manipulate my little world into being bearable, right? Fully being cognizant of the actual horrors that are taking place, all around me on a regular basis. How do I, maybe it's compartmentalized is the right word or not the right word, but how do I compartmentalize enough to focus on a thing and be able to make my little orbit as positive an orbit as possible. And for me that was fulfilling, painstakingly at times, childhood dreams and childhood efforts, right? Knowing that, like, as an immigrant child from a mom who like did not graduate from a four year school, that was ultimate goal number one. Like, had to get that figured out, right?
And then once that happened, I was like, oh, wait, I'm realizing that there are human beings who are exactly like me, who have none of the tools or the wherewithal to do any of this. That has - that has taken place in my own life. And it brings me great joy to do that as well as it brings me great joy to travel. And so I was able to kind of compartmentalize all of that together and at the same time, thinking about how to live and be as free in terms of queer expression as possible. And what does that actually look like? I think that as a performer I'm sort of much more of a traditional, quote unquote actor now, in my journey than I was at the beginning of my journey, especially after graduating from college. And so I think that a good amount of that time was finding out how to craft the identity of my drag persona, Indigo Dai, and use that as a way to kind of like work through childhood trauma . Like get those goals out, you know? Like I was that kid who was, like, sneaking into my mom's room and wearing her shoes and her makeup when she was at work. And so I, like, needed to fulfill something that, that kind of started as a child in all of those ways, and staying focused on that was helpful to me, and some of those kernels hopefully can be helpful to other people. If it's the joy of drag or if it's access to higher education.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, there's so many different lanes to go down from there. What was that - the early parts of that journey - like for you? You mentioned your Jamaican heritage, you know, what was that like for you? Just kind of coming into or realizing - you know, we're always becoming, a constant state of becoming and evolving - but what was that like for you very early on when you started to understand or unpack your queerness for yourself and then start to go on the road to acceptance of it?
Marlon Meikle:
I, I. This probably, is going to sound cliche, but I feel like I have to learn about, unpack and accept my queerness every day that I'm living, I'm realizing something else about who I am or who I thought I was or who I thought I was in this, white supremacist, patriarchal societal construct that we're in.
And so the more I understand about the world around me, the more that I realize so many of the quote, unquote, choices I thought I was making were actually reactions to a system that did not want me to be there or to exist in a way that was true. And so, my understanding of my queerness now is so vastly different than 10 years ago and, even when I came out, but I think that something that remains true about my experience, kind of across the board is that I knew that withholding my truth would be harmful not only to myself, but everyone in my orbit. That everyone in my family, everyone in my community would suffer if I didn't do the right thing and the right thing was to live my truth, that there would be, you know, false relationships and lies and deceit and the stuff that we're seeing with these legislatures, right? They're popping up in the news all the time. I think there's one today even, right? This Tennessee lawmaker who is pushing all of these like anti-LGBTQ bills, but is also using his check mark Instagram profile to like and comment on the half naked pictures of some young twink, right? Like there's gonna be like this constant harm that'll be done if you don't tell the truth and you don't do the right thing. And that's how I think I've acknowledged that my queerness has changed because like I'm constantly asking like, is this the truest thing about me?
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Let's, let's talk a little bit about Indigo Dai. if we may.
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah, let's talk about her.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
I feel like I was there at least pretty early on in -
Marlon Meikle:
Talk about an origin story.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Talk about an origin story. I remember your solo performance piece. At the time, Indigo Dai did not have a last name. It was just Indigo at that moment. The last name hadn't revealed itself yet for her. Tell us a little bit about specifically your drag journey, what that was like for you and, you know, and again, it really was very closely tied to your artistic expression and who you were as an artist. And then it's sort of evolved into what it is now, which is like this force, but tell us a little bit about your drag journey.
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah, absolutely. Uh, Tim Miller, who is a legend when it comes to solo performance came to SMU and we spent some time doing work there. And that is one of the origins of Indigo, right? Like that kind of investigation that we did for that solo performance and that kernel I think that I imagined Indigo as a kind of a little sparkly fairy, kind of like, um, what is the thing from the Disney? Do you know what I'm saying? The little, the princess from Disney.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, right. Like pixies or -
Marlon Meikle:
The one that you have to clap for and if you don't clap for her, she'll die. Do you know who that is?
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Tinkerbell?
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah. Kind of like Tinkerbell.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, Tinkerbell could never.
Marlon Meikle:
Yeah, right? Imagine you're like in the world, like Tinkerbell, but like landing on people's shoulders and like whispering in people's ears. Like you can be like, fully sexually liberated and love yourself in the way that you need to love yourself and then like floating off, right? Um, and that was definitely sort of the kernel and Indigo Dai - thankfully I've been able to work with other folks who are alumni of SMU. Molly Murphy, who's an incredible director who just opened the Cowboy Bob Musical at the Alley Theater in Houston. And I was able to work with her on an extended project, where I was able to kind of investigate a little bit more into what Indigo actually meant for me. And therein kind of came the Indigo Dai and the full explanation of that.
And it's sort of like a little poem, like Indigo Dai, like blue death, right? Like death from depression, but make it fashion, right? There's, uh, there's a little bit of, of sadness in there. But the solo project that I ended up doing with Molly's direction explored these Japanese monks who essentially mummified themselves, in order to sort of transcend the chaos of the world and to become this otherworldly thing and I think that the transformation process of drag is essentially that, right? It's sort of saying, I see, I see you, climate change. I see you, injustice. I see you pain. But I also bring you through all of that beauty and joy, and giggles, because we have to in order to be able to get up and continue on through our days. And so, that's sort of what Indigo means for me now. In reality, what that actually means in practice is online drag bingo and drag brunches. I just got off the ultimate disco cruise and so I was doing my little Tina Turner.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Yes!
Marlon Meikle:
But I think that ultimately that is just, you know, I was doing it for these 70, 80-year-old lesbians who were having the time of their life and were so excited to see that the hard work that they've done in their life to be, was meaningful and allowed me to be able to perform for them. You know? So I think it's all of those things.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, that sounds like so much fun.
Marlon Meikle:
It's very painful. Just, everyone who thinks that drag is super fun, know that it's very painful. Everything will hurt all the time. There will be blood, in fact.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Ooh.
Marlon Meikle:
Everything hurts.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Let's talk about this resurgence in your acting life. I mean, whoa, right? I mean, like you, you were in like a, a moment of momentum that is like just this huge wave of creativity and opportunities. How has that been like for you? Cuz it's not like these other areas of your life that we've talked about, so from like the arts administration to arts education, to doing drag. Like none of this stuff is slowing down, right? It's just that other areas have started picking up, especially like with your acting life. So like what has that been like for you, like dealing with that wave of opportunity?
Marlon Meikle:
So I think that really picked up for me, uh, wh- I, I. I'm saying this with respect, but I understand what I'm about to say is provocative. Um, with, with all the respect in the world, due to every theater artist in the world, as someone who majored in theater and worked for theater programs for years, theater is a scam. It's a scam. It's a scam.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
You heard it here first.
Marlon Meikle:
You heard it here first guys. Um, and like, I'm not gonna, you know, my saying that is not gonna harm the American theater. I think they're gonna be fine after this. Um, but, uh, I realized when I came to LA that this was the space for me and that film and television was the space for me. And that was gonna be where I was happiest, you know? And I remember I moved to LA during the pandemic and got out a commercial during the pandemic and it was super difficult to be anywhere or do anything. And I remember, my co-star, like, leaning over to me and being like, so great to be back on set.
And it was legitimately my first time on any, any set at all. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Sure. Yeah. So great to be back and I was like, I can't tell anyone that, like, I don't know what I'm doing. And so I just kind of continued on pretending like I had been doing things for a while until like, you know, there were 12 commercials under my belt and I was like, okay, cool. Now I can actually say, "it's good to be back on set" , and that sort of thing. But it's been really fun and I actually take it on in the same way that I take on my drag. It really is just boy drag. And I think about it and operate with it like that, which I think puts less pressure on me. I think that early on in my life, I felt like there was a lot of pressure to mask how femme I was, in order to kind of, like, fit something. And yeah, you are obviously fitting something if you're, you know, auditioning for a role or whatever, but I put it all on in the same way I put on all of my drag, and that makes more sense to me and feels less disingenuous to me and allows me the opportunity to, every once in a while, play a straight guy. Which is fun!
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Love that. It's like that. I'm, I'm, I'm not a doctor, but I play one on tv. It's like, not straight, but I play one on TV.
Marlon Meikle:
Every once in a while. I actually just filmed a, uh, commercial the other day and I was like, I get to be straight in this one. It was super fun. It was so fun.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Typecasting. I love that. So what's next? What's next for you? I mean, you have so many incredible opportunities popping up. You have three, four different careers, you know, multihyphenate that you're currently juggling. What's next?
Marlon Meikle:
Well, so immediately next, I'm actually,working with folks at River and Rail Theatre Company. You might know them. Emily Ernst and Josh Peterson and Amelia Peterson. I'm gonna be going to Knoxville to perform White Rabbit, Red Rabbit, which is a super cool play that is given to the performer the day of the play and performed. We're super excited. We had planned this a while ago and had planned that Indigo Dai was gonna be performing. And since then, the governor of Tennessee has passed that anti-drag bill. And so I will be performing in defiance of the law, on April 14th. But I've had a talk with Josh and Emily just a couple days ago and they're in full support and their board is in full support.
And I'm excited to be able to go into that space and do that because I do think, you know, drag is important and I have had the pleasure of being in drag in the presence of children. And it has been a wonderful experience for all of us. Right? I hosted the graduation for PS 58, Brooklyn elementary school twice during the pandemic, uh, for those kids.
And it was a wonderful experience and, um, uh, I, uh, think that everything that's happening with those, um, um, anti-trans and anti-drag bills are absolutely absurd. And so I'm excited to be going there and doing that. And then after that, I'm gonna be in New York City for a couple of days, visiting the new school, visiting Parsons. And then I'm gonna be going to Parsons, Paris, our campus there, immediately after that, because I’ve been newly appointed Associate Director of Admission and so we gotta see what's happening on the Paris campus.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Congratulations. Oh, that was, is that a scoop? I think I scooped you on that one.
Marlon Meikle:
I think, yeah, it's totally a scoop. I think that my boss told me yesterday, so yeah.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
I love getting scoops.
Marlon Meikle:
Oh, oh my goodness. And there's another thing.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Yes?
Marlon Meikle:
There's another huge, huge thing. I just recorded a single. My, my first single.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
What?
Marlon Meikle:
Breakdown. Maybe I'll send you the link, because it should be out in a couple of weeks -
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Please!
Marlon Meikle:
- so that you can attach it to this, uh, podcast. It's called Breakdown. It'll be on all of your streaming services on the Spotifys and the iTunes and all of that. Look it up. Indigo Dai. Breakdown. It is a hopefully inspirational disco smash mashup, which I'm really excited about. So yeah, I believe that everyone should have a single, even if you're not a singer, I think it's like the new calling card. So I'm gonna walk it like I talk it, and here's my single and then next hopefully we can hear from Durell.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh, wow.
Marlon Meikle:
Wouldn't it be great if you dropped your single next?
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Oh wow. You know, I hope no one's holding their breath on that one. I'm, like, music? Oh, it's been so long. Oh my goodness.
Marlon Meikle:
You could rap, you could sing talkity rap. I mean, like Paris Hilton can do it. So can you.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
Right? It was so interesting, I saw just earlier today, it was this picture of this child holding a sign and it said, look, a man in a dress reading to children. And you know what it was a picture of? It was a picture of Jesus. It was a picture of Jesus reading to, like, little children, like, you know, sitting all around and it's just something to think about. I agree with what it is that you're saying. You know, right now, politically things are getting way absurd. And at a certain point, we really do need to figure out as humans that we're all in this together. And it does not benefit any of us to oppress others simply for being who they are.
I try to be more than just an ally in this. I try to be an accomplice. I'm a board member with the New York Transgender Advocacy Group, NYTAG. And I take that work very seriously. I say all the time until trans black women living at or below the poverty level get free, ain't none of us free.
Marlon Meikle:
None of us.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
None of us.
Marlon Meikle:
None of us.
Dr. Durell Cooper:
So we're all in this together, and I just want to thank you for your courage. You stay just ahead of your time . That was true back in, you know, two thousand and -- and it's true today. You know, it's like.
Marlon Meikle:
You got it, you got it. That is the right year.
