Holistic Healing Through Psychedelics: Matt Zemon's Insights

Unlock the profound healing potential of psychedelics as we sit down with Matt Zemon, an authoritative voice in psychedelic wellness.

Ever wondered how substances like psilocybin and MDMA are reshaping mental health? You'll gain deep insights into the current legal landscape, the role of religious freedom, and the promising clinical trials that are paving the way for safer, legal use of these powerful tools. From the medical applications of ketamine to the spiritual dimensions of psychedelic ceremonies, Matt explains how these substances can be safely integrated into both medical and spiritual practices.

Explore the transformative benefits of psychedelics for mental health and spiritual well-being. We dissect how basic self-care practices like sleep, exercise, and mindfulness can amplify the healing effects of psychedelics. Hear compelling real-life stories of individuals who have experienced profound emotional and spiritual relief, especially those battling terminal illnesses. Matt illuminates how psychedelics can offer a holistic approach to end-of-life care, providing comfort not just to individuals but also offering solace to their families.

In our final segment, we dive into the root causes of mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and OCD, highlighting the revolutionary role of psychedelics in addressing these conditions. With groundbreaking research showing how psychedelics are helping with smoking cessation, opioid addiction, and even autism, we stress the importance of safe and informed use. Matt shares practical advice on the "three S's"—Source, Set, and Setting—and encourages listeners to take control of their health decisions.

To learn more, explore Matt's book "Psychedelics for Everyone" and other resources available on his website: http://www.mattzemon.com/

To learn more about Mindy CLICK HERE

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

hey friends, this is your host, mindy duff, and you're listening to up level your life with mindy, your number one personal growth podcast that will bring you closer to uncovering your greatest self. As a certified holistic health and nutrition coach, I created this podcast for anyone who desires to improve physically, emotionally and spiritually. I'll be interviewing experts and sharing tips and tricks that have helped not only my clients, but that have guided me on my own transformational journey. I believe that we all have a greatness that lies within. We just need to uncover it. Are you ready to level up? Then let's begin. Hi everyone and welcome back to Uplevel your Life with Mindy. I am your host, mindy Duff, and I have a guest with me.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Today I'm going to be chatting with Matt Zeman, and he's an educator, author and leader in psychedelic wellness, which is, admittedly, something that I'm not super familiar with. So I'm extra curious for this podcast episode. I know that I've been involved in the wellness industry for a while and psychedelics seem to be popping up more and more by. It seems like more and more respected individuals. So it's at first you know you hear psychedelics and you're like what are we talking about? But then it's like okay, hold on this. There's more to this than I think what meets the eye, so let me tell you just a little bit about Matt before we begin here.

Speaker 1: 1:44

He is the author of two bestselling books Psychedelics for Everyone A Beginner's Guide to these Powerful Medicines for Anxiety, depression, addiction, ptsd and Expanding Consciousness, and Beyond the Trip, a Journal for Psychedelic Preparation and Integration. Matt holds a master's degree from King's College London and combines academic insights with a passion for safe and sacred psychedelic use, focusing on broadening understanding and access to these transformative substances. Additionally, he consults with medical practitioners in psychedelic therapy, contributing his expertise to further the responsible integration of psychedelics in healthcare. Welcome to the podcast, matt.

Speaker 2: 2:32

Mindy, it is good to be here. Thank you for choosing to do this topic and explore something that you're not that familiar with, so I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 2:40

Yeah, absolutely. So now I know I just read a little bio on you there, but can you, in your own words, just tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Yeah, what do I do? I work with people who are interested in incorporating psychedelics into their life. Sometimes that looks ceremonial and they want to meet the medicine that way. And sometimes it looks medical and they want to meet the medicine that way. And sometimes it looks medical and they want to meet it through a diagnosis. And I work with ceremonial leaders and how to incorporate medical best practices and medical providers and how to incorporate ceremonial best practices.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Oh, I love that because I know people that listen to my podcast regularly know that I love all things science and I love all things spiritual and I love when they meet in the middle. I think there's so many things that when we have just our scientific hats on, we go, oh no, that's too spiritual. But then really in the science world, well, you're actually doing the same thing, you're just calling it something different. So there's a lot of different modalities and things out there that combine both and I love that and I love that. That's essentially what you're doing. That's just through the use of psychedelics. Now my first question for you, I think, is just addressing the elephant in the room Is this legal Psychedelics? And I think your brain automatically goes to the 60s and people tripping on mushrooms and you think, well, we're not supposed to do that, are we? So let's just address that first and foremost, and it's a nuanced answer.

Speaker 2: 4:11

So right now in America I'm assuming most of the people listening that's where they're based the only legal psychedelic in all 50 states is ketamine and that's prescribed in a medical model off-label, and is being used for things like depression and anxiety and substance use challenges and suicidal ideation and those types of things. And in addition to that which is legal in the medical model, we have multiple churches that have been given exemptions from our government to practice using psychedelics in their church services. We have the Native American Church and their use of peyote, and then we have three ayahuasca churches, which use this very powerful medicine, traditionally from Central and South America, for expanding consciousness in a religious context. In addition to that, we have multiple legal clinical trials happening all over the country and they are using things like psilocybin, which are mushrooms. They're using DMT, they're using 5-MeO, they're using MDMA. So there's those opportunities as well. We expect MDMA to be re-legalized here in America for treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder. This August is kind of the goal. So that's exciting.

Speaker 2: 5:31

And then I think the last thing on the legality is many people choose to hop on airplanes and go to different countries and experience legal psychedelics there, and that can be Costa Rica or Mexico or Peru or the Netherlands or Jamaica. So there's other psychedelic tourism opportunities that are all in the legal camp. And actually I will say one more thing Going back to that religious freedom. There are somewhere between 200 and 2,000 psychedelic churches in America and most of those are practicing. What they would say is they are practicing protected by statute and law, but technically not legal. They're still using controlled substances, but the Religious Freedom Restoration Act does give them a lot of protection for what they do. Does that make sense, mindy?

Speaker 1: 6:21

Yeah, that does actually that's very interesting no-transcript.

Speaker 2: 7:05

When we talk we don't have really a dividing line between different classifications of drugs. So we don't think about heroin any differently than we think about mushrooms, which we don't think about caffeine and sugar and tobacco and alcohol as all different types of drugs that we all use and they all have different challenges associated with them. There's a really beautiful study by a person named Dr David Nutt from Imperial College London and he said let's forget how drugs are classified and let's just look at harm to self and harm to others and just be objective and have an open and honest conversation. So he did all this research, created a chart. The far left-hand side the most dangerous drug for self and others is alcohol. It was like a 72. And you move your way down. You get to heroin, you get to smoking or tobacco All the way down.

Speaker 2: 8:03

On the far right-hand side of his chart are mushrooms and it's like a six and LSD is a seven and MDMA is a nine. So I bring this up to say like, of course, all medicines can be dangerous. There's a couple thousand people a year who die of acetaminophen overdoses around the world. So anything in the wrong dose in the wrong setting can be dangerous. So when we look at relative risk, the risk of something terrible happening on mushrooms is much lower than the risk happening with legal alcohol or legal tobacco.

Speaker 1: 8:39

Yeah, that's a really great point and I'm glad that you mentioned that. I think, again, it's the intention behind why are you using this? What are you hoping to achieve with it? And then, are you abusing it or are you using it in a manner that's going to be safe for you? So that's really, like you say, like alcohol. We've all seen alcohol be abused. Some of us probably have abused it ourselves in times, abused. Some of us probably have abused it ourselves and in times. But that's normalized for whatever reason. That's a whole nother podcast for another day. But I think what you're doing is kind of helping to normalize this use of the psychedelics in the appropriate manner so that you can get the benefits, because there are a lot of benefits. So let's talk about the benefits of these psychedelics now. Why would we take them?

Speaker 2: 9:27

Aside from.

Speaker 1: 9:28

I mean, I think we just associate recreation and escapism and things like that. But there are so many more reasons to be doing this, so let's talk about that a little.

Speaker 2: 9:38

So I'm going to give two primary reasons People choose to do psychedelics. One to break repetitive thinking patterns. So now for each of us, what that repetitive thinking pattern manifests itself, as might be different For some of us. It might manifest as feeling depression, catastrophizing, feeling anxiety. It might manifest as an eating disorder. It might manifest as a substance use addiction or challenge On and on. Ocd would be another manifestation.

Speaker 2: 10:17

So when we think about what a psychedelic can do in terms of stopping those patterns, for at least some period of time, from occurring and reminding us that we don't have to think the way we're thinking, we don't have to think about our relationship with food or with alcohol, or with a relationship or with our boss or with our children in the way we've been thinking about it. We can think about it a different way. With that insight, we can then enter into a period of behavioral change, and that's really quite powerful. So one of the reasons why we have 305, I think, academic institutions studying psychedelics and all of these different types of topics is so many things that we do are a result of these repetitive thinking patterns. The other reason that I think people are driven to psychedelics is they want to connect with their sacred.

Speaker 2: 11:11

When we look at the research of Johns Hopkins and they give people one or two doses of psilocybin, the vast majority will say it is either the number one most important thing that's ever happened to them in their entire lives or it's in the top five. That's a big number and that's also where I think it's important that we have these different models. We have a medical model for people who say I have a diagnosis and I want to work through that diagnosis and I want to be doing this in a medical environment that is beautiful and that is important and that is good work, Great. And there's others who say that's not how I want to meet the medicine. I want to connect with my sacred, I want to remember who I am, I want to remember why I'm here, I want to understand what is my purpose and think through how me as a spiritual being and that is more of the ceremonial model and certainly there's crossover, but two very different reasons that people sometimes will will find their way to this medicine.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Yeah, yeah. Now this brought up another question. So let's say, someone has some form of an anxiety disorder which.

Speaker 1: 12:24

I think is very, very common in this day and age. And let's say that you know they have a practitioner that says, yes, these psychedelics are going to be beneficial for you. So once this person is taking these psychedelics, is that something that they could expect, that they're just going to have to be on this drug forever, just like you know if you're taking a medication for your diabetes or something else, or is this something that can just help you kind of overcome?

Speaker 2: 12:53

I love that because we are. We live in a culture where we are used to being prescribed a pill and then that pill becomes an everyday occurrence that we become addicted to and has its own side effect profile. So I'm going to stick on antidepressants for a moment. These were never meant to be long-term solutions. They were meant to be episodic solutions. And the side effects the weight gain, the lethargy, the sexual dysfunction, the suicidal ideation these are real and it changes our quality of life. It's also a medicine that doesn't work in the majority of people who use them. So we're talking about roughly 40% of the population that responds to these medicines. So lots of challenges there. But we have been behaviorally trained that we need to take a medicine every day.

Speaker 2: 13:45

With psychedelics it's not how they work, whether they're in the medical model or in the spiritual model, and many times people will only do this once or twice in their whole lives. It's not meant to be every day. You don't get addicted. They are, for the most part, physiologically safe and non-addictive. But let's talk about this MDMA. That's going to become legal here, hopefully this August. So they took people with treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder. So for this population, imagine veterans, imagine first responders. Imagine victims of sexual assault where nothing has worked. They have tried the pharmacological solutions, they have tried the talk therapy and they still have PTSD. Well, for these studies, clinical phase three clinical trials, two different rounds of them. They gave them three doses of MDMA, with therapy before and after, and about 70% left those trials without having a PTSD diagnosis wow.

Speaker 2: 14:47

It's that big of a response rate.

Speaker 1: 14:51

That's so weird.

Speaker 2: 14:52

It's just incredible. And now will they take MDMA every day?

Speaker 2: 14:55

No they did it three times with therapy and that achieved the objective they were looking for, and then hopefully, they will be able to continue on with the practices and the, the, the lifestyle changes that became clear to them. But that looks like some of the very things that you talk about all the time, mindy. It's like are we sleeping enough? Are we getting enough exercise? Are we eating good foods? Are we drinking plenty of water? Do we have some type of mindfulness-based activity? Those things are what we do every day when we're not on the medicine, and for many of us, that's the insight that comes with the medicine that okay, I don't need to think this way and I need to do these things, and that helps.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Yeah, I love that and I think that's such a. I mean, if you had the choice and I know you know nothing's guaranteed to help everyone, right, there's no one size fits all when we talk about our physical health or our mental health but I think if you had the choice of these prescription drugs that have all these side effects that probably don't work for most people, or give the psychedelic a shot, you're not going to be stuck on it for all of your life and it helps most people. I mean, why wouldn't you? I mean to me it seems like a no-brainer, but I think it's just getting past that stigma that we have and I think that's happening. I think we are getting just collectively over that and hopefully things like this podcast help a little bit. As you were talking, it made me think of someone and I wish I could remember who this was.

Speaker 1: 16:24

It was not someone I know personally, but someone had gone on an ayahuasca journey and it was very profound, and I think they've done it probably two times, maybe three, but certainly not more than three. And it was this profound spiritual experience for them. But when they were asked like, are you going to keep doing this, are you going to keep taking this and doing this experience, they said no, they don't need to now, because it was like a thing and now they just know how to do that on their own, without the drug. And so that makes me wonder in some instances, as you're talking about, like anxiety for example, how you don't have to be on it for this the rest of your life. It's just kind of showing you how, so to speak, how to live a life without the anxiety, if that makes sense. So I don't know if that's not my personal experience, but that was just something that I remember, that I heard, that really stuck with me.

Speaker 2: 17:35

That makes total sense to me. I mean, I see really kind of, I see both things. I see people who it's a once in a lifetime, twice in a lifetime experience and they feel like, okay, I got enough, that was plenty and I was able to work through whatever I wanted to work through and find my sacred and I just don't want to use that methodology anymore. I don't need to use that tool. Okay, that's beautiful. And then I meet other people who say you know what? I did work through these things and I want to incorporate some practice into my life and maybe that looks like once a quarter or once a year and again, it just depends on why you're there. Personally, I love the idea of being able to drop in and have that connection in that type of intense manner that these sacraments is what we'd call them in the ceremonial space allow. I'm constantly amazed just to the intention of show me what I need to see and what comes up. So I think for me it's more of an ongoing practice, but I totally respect and understand people who are like I just want to do it once. You know where I've seen some beautiful work with that is in people with terminal diagnoses. So Johns Hopkins, yale University of Southern California or California, san Francisco, working with people giving them psilocybin. So they've been given a diagnosis, they have cancer, they have X amount of time to live. This doesn't change the fact that they're going to die. What it changes is the quality of life that they're going to experience. And what we see is they don't have time to mess with different antidepressants to see which one works. They don't want to go through the side effects. They want that depression, that anxiety lifted.

Speaker 2: 19:22

And in many of these people that's what happens. They take their psilocybin. They lift what they would say is oh okay, I see myself for the first time as a spiritual being, having a human experience. I see this as a transition, not the death. I can heal things from my past. I can have conversations that I need to have these medicines opened up to me. So I love that. In the medical world and then the ceremonial world, again complementing, that will often provide those same medicines to the friends and the family who are bearing witness to the person dying. And now, all of a sudden, we have multiple generations healing. We have multiple generations having conversations that need to happen. We have multiple generations understanding death or transitioning in a new way and it's so beautiful to watch and such a privilege to be a part of.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Yeah, that actually makes so much sense and I don't think that's something that would have even occurred to me, but I have done a series of episodes with hospice nurses and we had a whole you know season on things like that and wow, you're right, like what a powerful.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Because you know if you, if you do receive that terminal diagnosis, you know you've, you're coming face to face with your own mortality. And if you don't necessarily believe that you are a spiritual being having a human experience, then that could be extremely virtual being having a human experience, then that could be extremely devastating. Not that it's always going to be an ending can always be sad, but if you know that it's just the end of this little part and that there's so much more going on beyond, I think that makes it a lot more. I don't want to say an enjoyable experience, but not something that's so just devastating. And the end all when we, and then having those other family members being able to be a part of that, where you know, okay, well, they're not here in the physical and that's extremely sad, but we know that they're, they're, they're somewhere else and we can see that and we understand that and have that broader perspective, just makes it a little easier to accept. I guess is what and you're right, I'm sure a lot of healing could occur there.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Yeah, and it's lovely, we do get a lot of hospice volunteers, therapists.

Speaker 2: 21:39

we get death doulas in our work and it's just they are seeing so many people transitioning and what it does, both to that person and to all the people around them, and for them to be able to take the insights from their own experience with psychedelics back to that work they're doing. Um, at least, what I'm told is it makes them better at what they do, that they're able to relate in a different way, they're able to communicate in a different way. Um, yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Yeah, so, uh, you've touched on a few things, but I'm wondering if you could just give us just a quick little rundown of some of the things that these psychedelics could help. So we've talked about anxiety, obviously, in a hospice situation, who else might be taking these? What would you be taking these psychedelics for?

Speaker 2: 22:27

Yeah. So big categories would be things like people who are experiencing a lot of depression and a lot of anxiety. Those are two big categories. We're seeing ketamine prescribed across the country for those purposes, um, and we're seeing with. With both of those things. We're unlike a traditional antidepressant where we're really just numbing the symptoms and hoping to buy time for the episode to pass and the person to move on with psychedelics.

Speaker 2: 22:54

The idea is what is the root? What is the root of the depression, what is the root of the anxiety? Can you find that for yourself, so that it's not an intellectual exercise where someone told me, oh, I need to exercise. Where someone told me, oh, I need to think more about the positive, or I am ganging up negative things or there's no reason to be scared of that, that is not that effective. But when people can for themselves say, oh, this root is related to this thing or these things, I see it, I get it, I understand, understand it. I don't want to do that. It's very different. It's somatic, it's a knowing versus a believing yeah and uh.

Speaker 2: 23:36

So yeah, I love, I love the work being done for depression, anxiety, ocd, similar um. Substance use it's kind of contra intuitive to think, oh, we're going to use to use a substance, because I have a substance use disorder and I guess what I've seen here, things like Bill W, the person who started Alcoholics Anonymous, wanted LSD to be part of the protocol. His first step of his 12-step program was give yourself to a higher power is the language I think they use and he understood. For many people to a higher power is the language I think they use and he understood. For many people that's a really tall order. Lsd, in his mind, was a forced spiritual experience. So I think we're seeing great success with psilocybin, even ketamine, as part of that process for people.

Speaker 2: 24:27

Smoking cessation we're seeing psychedelics have tremendous results in getting people who are lifetime smokers to adjust stop period, full stop. Opioid addiction we're seeing there's a specific drug called Iboga or the synthetic is Ibogaine being used for people with opioid addictions with tremendous results. So substance use let me think here there's some beautiful work being done in the world of autism. So University of Toronto and again Imperial College London working with a group out of Colorado on studying the use of psychedelics. This is all kind of newer research. This was a group that was further along in getting to their turn for research. But it's just beautiful. I mean, talk with these organizers in the autism world and one of them will say you know, I didn't have panic attacks. My entire life was a panic attack and then MDMA showed me for a few hours that that's not how I had to live my life. And now he, once a year, does a big MDMA journey, resets his barometer and off he goes. And another one of these people say I had a very flat affect and I couldn't read the room and I couldn't show people. I love that, I love them, and LSD unlocked both of those things for me. So it's really cool. This is a group out of Colorado. If you look up autism and psychedelics you'll see that once a week they do a group call for people with autism who are interested in psychedelics and then once a month they invite parents on some really beautiful work and they're getting finally backed by some research.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Um, I'm trying to think what else we've covered we. We've covered PTSD. We've covered end of life. There's just there. There's so many things. It's, it's, it's remarkable, but again, it all comes back to the same thing Breaking repetitive thinking patterns, connecting with sacred and remembering who we are, that we are at our core, we are loved, we are enough, we are worthy. And now, with that insight, with that awareness, with that knowing, how do I want to live my life?

Speaker 1: 26:30

Oh yeah, I love that. That's just the perfect way to sum all that up. And again, some fascinating research that I know I for one will be very interested to see what's coming of all this research, especially with the autism. That's really fascinating. But again, it makes sense, you know when you're talking about what's at the core here. So who should not take psychedelics? Are there certain people or types of people that this maybe isn't for you? You should stay away? Or is it truly for everyone? What's your take on that?

Speaker 2: 27:03

I appreciate that. So the book I wrote is psychedelics for everyone, and by no means do I mean everyone should take a psychedelic. The title was inviting people to understand that, whether it's for you, for someone you love, or you just want information so that you understand the 50 years of prohibition talk that you were taught was not true. That's what I mean. They're good for society. That's what I mean. They're good for society. I think people who do well with psychedelics have a firm grip on this world. So if you are schizophrenic as an example, that's not really enough solid footing here to use that.

Speaker 2: 27:41

There's not a lot of research with people with bipolar and psychedelics, but there's a lot of people who say, as long as you're not in a manic period of bipolar, you can experience psychedelics Each psychedelic. While we broadly categorize them together, there are differences in contraindications between one and another. So, for example, if you're taking an antidepressant, you really cannot take ayahuasca or MDMA, but you probably can take psilocybin or ketamine. So the best thing to do is to make sure whoever is providing you with the psychedelics or wherever you're going to experiencing them, they're doing a health intake of some sort, where they're looking at your prescriptions, your supplements, your family history, your history and making sure that you're going to be safe on that medicine.

Speaker 2: 28:35

If you're not comfortable with trusting in just I trust the ketamine provider or the shaman in ayahuasca to do a good health intake, go to spiritpharmacistcom, and that's a person named Dr Ben Malcolm. He does beautiful health intakes where he has nothing to sell you besides information. He'll look at your stuff and say, okay, based on what you've told me, here are the things you should know about for these different psychedelics so that you can make as informed decision as possible for yourself. And he's not selling you a $5,000 ketamine package or a $7,000 vacation in Jamaica with psychedelics. So I like him. Another person is Emily Copa with a K. She does good work. There's a bunch of them out there, but those are two that just kind of stand out from the crowd with trying to keep yourself safe and, again, for the most part physiologically safe, for the most part non-addictive and everybody's unique. So get some good advice as you think through this.

Speaker 1: 29:38

Yeah, yeah. So again, there's no one size fits all for everybody. Just like some people can eat strawberries and it's the most healthy thing in the world for them, other people eat strawberries and blow up like a blowfish and can't breathe.

Speaker 2: 29:52

So why is that? Because we're all different.

Speaker 1: 29:54

So this is just another natural substance on the planet, just like strawberries or anything else. So just be cautious when you're taking anything for the very first time. So great resources shared there. Thank you for those in kind of a nutshell. I know that's probably the topic for maybe your next book, like Matt's experiences personally with psychedelics, but I'm just curious to see how things have changed for you with them.

Speaker 2: 30:27

You know, I went after. My first experience with mushrooms was the experience that just changed the way I looked and interacted with the world and I went from that experience and said, okay, what the heck was that? And I wanted to learn more on the science side. I went back to school to do that, but then I also went and started traveling around and experiencing different types of psychedelics by different types of practitioners, by titas and shaman and MDs and PhDs, and I found that I really do.

Speaker 2: 31:00

I like these, these tools. For me, they were incredibly powerful. I was able to I am able to present tense, look at different experiences in my life with different eyes. I was able to reconnect with my mom, who died when I was 22 and she was 49. I was able to process some um, some inappropriate sexual contact when I was a young teenager with a with a, an older family person I was. I've just been able to do so many things to, to, to recognize, um, how, how emotionally unavailable I have been for my children by just being on the road so much, and I've been able to manifest different behavioral changes in my life from these.

Speaker 2: 31:47

So I personally look at these medicines for me not as someone with a diagnosis of anything, but as a way to give thanks, to use as introspection, to be a part of a community and to really understand that I am not separate and apart from nature. I am nature and we are connected. We might look like different waves, but we are part of the same ocean and I didn't understand that before these medicines. We are part of the same ocean and I didn't understand that before these medicines. So for me it's been life changing and I see it as a practice and I wouldn't judge anybody who doesn't see it as a practice or doesn't want to do it. That's all okay. It's all okay, but that's how these have impacted me.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Yeah, that's really. I think you summed that up very, very succinctly and beautiful at the same time in a short amount of time. So I appreciate that, because I know again, you probably could write a whole book on that. But I feel like and listening to you is just kind of making this feel even more true for me. But when I hear about people that use these psychedelics, it seems like they live more fuller, more intentional, more connected lives after their experience versus how they were before. So I think that's just something that I mean. Who wouldn't want that right?

Speaker 2: 33:11

And I also think that ties into, like I tell people all the time, these aren't a cure for anything.

Speaker 2: 33:15

These are catalysts, these are moments of awareness and awakening that we don't traditionally get in our culture.

Speaker 2: 33:23

So when we use these tools, as people have for thousands of years, we use them for this moment of awareness and awakening and understanding, and with that it's hard to unsee what has been seen. And for me at least, speaking from my perspective, I feel like I am better equipped to interact with the world with a sense of peace, with a sense of support that I can take even for just a minute if I just say, right now, let me just pause and feel my feet on the ground and feel how the earth is supporting me. Oh wow, the earth does support me. Oh wow, it always has supported me. It will support me as long as I can breathe. I get to enjoy this, and that's a lot. The trillion upon trillions of accidents that had to happen for you and I to be alive at this moment in time, mindy, are astronomical to calculate and, yeah, it's something to be I am very, very grateful of, and it's something I did not think about prior to these journeys.

Speaker 1: 34:25

Yeah, I think. I mean we've all heard the phrase. You know all the answers lie within you, that's something that is frequently, I think, uttered on people's deathbeds.

Speaker 1: 34:35

Oh, I wish that I knew all the answers were inside, and we've heard that. Oh, I wish that I knew all the answers were inside, and we've heard that. Okay, that's great. What does that mean? But I feel like these psychedelics just kind of for a little moment. Show you here, here they are, here's what they mean by that, here's the answers. And once you can see that inside of you, then it's up to you to make those changes. But you can't make the changes again if you don't have the awareness right.

Speaker 2: 34:58

so that's what this is, what this is doing. Yeah, absolutely changes our need for anything external for happiness it's all inside, so once you find out. I've had it the whole time, I just didn't see it. Yeah, yeah, it's wild yeah, oh cool.

Speaker 1: 35:14

so um, a couple final questions for so, now that you've got us all convinced that these are the most amazing, thing, and we're all going to want to rush out, but you can't like. Just go to your local pharmacy, go to Walgreens and say, hey, I would like some psychedelics please. Maybe in August we can. But how? If someone's interested in in either the medical side or the spiritual side, where can you even go to find a good place to get these things?

Speaker 2: 35:42

Okay, so I'm going to answer that and give some guidance to how to keep yourself as risk-reduced as possible. If you're looking for a medical model, it's ketamine. So finding ketamine near me and then asking the questions I'm going to give you in a second, Because there is a philosophical divide in the medical community. Some of these practitioners believe it's just a biochemical reaction, so you can come in, get greeted by a nurse, anesthesiologist, have your vitals taken, an IV of ketamine put into you, some time to recover and they send you home. Other doctors believe it's a biochemical, psychosocial, spiritual process and they send you home.

Speaker 2: 36:18

Other doctors believe it's a biochemical, psychosocial, spiritual process and they're going to work with you in advance on what are your intentions and why now, and you're going to be more of a living room environment with some music that guides you through your ketamine process, and afterwards they're going to help unpack your journey. They're both legal, but they're different philosophies. I'm not telling you which one's right for you, but knowing what you're going to get is important. Knowing what you need to supplement is important. There's even ketamine telehealth providers where they'll mail you the ketamine and again that cost is way lower and you just have to supplement with the things they're not providing. So all different flavors of legal psychedelics here in America.

Speaker 2: 37:07

For those who are looking for something in America that's not medical, well maybe look for your local psychedelic society or decriminalization society and just start asking questions who around here is safe? Who around here is a good practitioner? How do they practice? Let me back up here for a second. Johns Hopkins talks about three S's. Easy to remember Source, set and setting. Source is where did your drugs come from? So if you're doing medical, it's a pharmacy, yay. Anything else. Asking questions how often do you do this? Do you test your medicine? Where does it come from?

Speaker 2: 37:45

Set is your mindset. So are you prepared for whatever this journey is? Have you set your intentions? Have you gathered your resources? Do you know? Do you have clarity in why? Do you even want to do this? Are you doing this to make somebody else happy? And in my experience, if it's not an enthusiastic yes for you, then I wouldn't do it. Mindset relates to do you have an informed consent? Do you know the rules of engagement between you and the provider? Is there going to be touching? Are there going to be smells? All of that relates to your mindset. Do you know how long it's going to last? Do you know what they do if something goes wrong? Do you feel safe? Mindset Setting is the physical environment.

Speaker 2: 38:28

Is it a doctor's office? Is it a living room? Is it a house? How many people are going to be there? Is this one-on-one, Is it two-on-one? Is it 20 people? Is it 100 people? I mean, there's a famous ayahuasca retreat in Costa Rica that does about 100 people at a time. Again, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, it's just what do you want? Most of the ceremonies I'm involved with personally are in the 12 to 20 range, but that doesn't mean that I'm doing it right, it just works for me. But that doesn't mean that I'm doing it right, it just works for me. The physical environment what is the music? Do you have to bring your own? Is there no music? Do you even want music? Again, everybody's different. And then, are you going to be interrupted by dogs, Amazon children, parents? Again, that helps If you pay attention to source set and setting. The of a bad trip is very, very low. But those same questions apply to the ketamine provider as to the psychedelic tourism provider. I'm looking at doing a retreat in jamaica. Ask the same questions.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Or the underground provider for a psychedelic church here in america same questions yeah, yeah, that really really great to remember because, just like anything else, you want to make sure that you know you're you're working with somebody reputable and that you're getting what you are expecting to get and not being surprised by something. So always doing your research before you jump into something brand new like this is great, great sound advice.

Speaker 2: 39:57

And even more so when you're talking about non-ordinary states of consciousness when you take these medicines. If you haven't done it, um, you are in a very vulnerable position. So knowing that the people in the room and that you can trust them is a big deal. Yeah, um, because when you can't, it's things can go, can go badly quickly.

Speaker 1: 40:19

Right, yes, well, I do have one final question for you, and this is a question that I ask all of my podcast guests, and that is what is one thing you wish everyone would do in regards to their own well-being.

Speaker 2: 40:35

Oh, I love that question. I would take take charge for your own wellbeing. We, um, we are taught so young to give up our agency. Um, in many ways, the doctors are high priests of our society that they know better than we do what's what's going on with us and, um, yeah, taking that responsibility, not trying to change road in front of us, but change us, and we have that power. I joke about how so often in our culture we want to change the way people address us and the way things on the outside are, and that's the equivalent of me saying I don't feel well and I'm going to get a prescription for you. Mindy, it doesn't work. We can take back our agency, take back our power and use that in every aspect of our wellbeing journey.

Speaker 1: 41:27

Oh, I love that, love that answer. I agree Two thumbs up Two thumbs up.

Speaker 2: 41:32

Good Four stars.

Speaker 1: 41:33

So, matt, if people are listening and they're thinking, oh wow, this guy is interesting, I want to learn more about psychedelics. Where can they find more about you? Maybe read your books. Where are you at?

Speaker 2: 41:44

I appreciate that. So mattziemancom is my website and I have videos and you can set up calls if you want to book me as a speaker. All that's on the website. My book, Psychedelics for Everyone, is everywhere books are sold and also on audible. And then I have a preparation and integration journal called beyond the trip and that is also available on amazon and coming out this summer. I have a new one. That's the veterans guide to psychedelics that I'm doing with heroic hearts project. That's in collaboration with them.

Speaker 2: 42:13

A hundred percent of the proceeds is going to help um heroic hearts and they take veterans down to Central and South America and they take them up to Oregon right now and they just do beautiful, beautiful work.

Speaker 1: 42:24

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2: 42:25

And then I'm active on LinkedIn, I'm active on Instagram and love when people reach out.

Speaker 1: 42:30

Awesome. Well, I will, of course, put all of your links in the show notes here, so people can just click to their heart's content and find out a little bit more about you. Matt, thank you so much for being on today.

Speaker 2: 42:42

Mindy, I appreciate you having me. Thanks for bringing this topic to your audience.

Speaker 1: 42:46

Yeah, and I learned quite a bit, and now I'm going to go have to go check out Matt's books too and learn a little bit more myself. So, wherever you are at listening today, I hope that you are having a fantastic day and I will catch you on the next one. That's it for today. Friends, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe or, even better, leave a review and let me know what resonated with you the most. The more you tell me what you love, the better I'm able to create future episodes with even better content. I'm sending you so much love and light. I'll see you in the next episode.