Dealer Tech Tuesdays
Tracy Kawa - Revolutionizing Team Dynamics - Behavioral Assessments - Leadership Communication Strategies
What if understanding your team's unique behavioral profiles could revolutionize your company's culture? Join us as we sit down with Tracy Kawa, a key player at VTech Dealer IT who has developed an innovative behavioral assessment tool that is transforming team dynamics. Tracy shares her journey from observing human behavior to creating an assessment that pinpoints personal values, competencies, and potential conflicts, aligning team members with company culture and enhancing organizational success.
Effective communication in leadership is more than just talking—it's about speaking an employee’s "work love language." Tracy and I explore the intricacies of employee engagement, emphasizing the importance of valuing individual contributions. Learn how tailoring your communication to resonate with employees' values can boost motivation and reduce turnover. We also highlight the impact of scripting conversations to ensure that managerial interactions are constructive and meaningful, ultimately fostering a more engaged and dedicated workforce.
Organizational harmony isn't just a buzzword—it's a crucial factor in sustainable growth. Tracy sheds light on managing team dynamics by resonating with employees' internal value structures and the benefits of complementary skill sets. We discuss the implications of executive pay structures and the importance of caring leadership in creating a supportive culture. Through real-world examples, we illustrate how nurturing managerial potential and aligning pay with short-term and long-term goals can significantly improve company performance and employee satisfaction. Tune in for valuable insights that could transform your organizational approach.
What if understanding your team's unique behavioral profiles could revolutionize your company's culture? Join us as we sit down with Tracy Kawa, a key player at VTech Dealer IT who has developed an innovative behavioral assessment tool that is transforming team dynamics. Tracy shares her journey from observing human behavior to creating an assessment that pinpoints personal values, competencies, and potential conflicts, aligning team members with company culture and enhancing organizational success.
Effective communication in leadership is more than just talking—it's about speaking an employee’s "work love language." Tracy and I explore the intricacies of employee engagement, emphasizing the importance of valuing individual contributions. Learn how tailoring your communication to resonate with employees' values can boost motivation and reduce turnover. We also highlight the impact of scripting conversations to ensure that managerial interactions are constructive and meaningful, ultimately fostering a more engaged and dedicated workforce.
Organizational harmony isn't just a buzzword—it's a crucial factor in sustainable growth. Tracy sheds light on managing team dynamics by resonating with employees' internal value structures and the benefits of complementary skill sets. We discuss the implications of executive pay structures and the importance of caring leadership in creating a supportive culture. Through real-world examples, we illustrate how nurturing managerial potential and aligning pay with short-term and long-term goals can significantly improve company performance and employee satisfaction. Tune in for valuable insights that could transform your organizational approach.
Dealer Tech Tuesdays is brought to you by VTech Dealer IT, guaranteeing your dealership premier reliability, stability and customer support. Transform your Tuesdays into a powerhouse of growth. Contact us at wwwvtechdealeritcom. Tracy Cowell. Hi, john, good morning. Good morning, how are you Good? I'm glad we finally were able to do this. Yeah, that's really nice Hi, John.
Speaker 2:Good morning, good morning, how are you?
Speaker 1:Good, I'm glad we finally were able to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've been talking about this for man a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love your setup.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, thank you. So, tracy, you've been, I would say, a magical ingredient in our organization for a very long time. I would say a magical ingredient in our organization for a very long time. I think so to give the 30,000-foot view of what you do and I think there's magic in between.
Speaker 1:That happens when you understand people and understand your team members, and I think you have a really unique approach of doing that. I like to call you the Wendy Rhodes of VTech. You know the, the performance manager coach. You know, go into the head and fix some things and reorganize some stuff, which I think is very powerful, but tell me in your words, kind of big picture, what, what do.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, john, thank you for those compliments, that's really an honor. And second of all, thank you for, you know, allowing me to work with your team all these years. It's been fabulous. I guess I would have to say that. The 30,000 foot view. Well, I'll start by saying that I'm a non-designated behavioral scientist, right? I have always watched people, observed behavior, observed emotional and social intelligence, observed interactions mediated between people, you know, even down to watching the psychology of boxing and the psychology of sports, right? So, having said that, with this love of people and love of people watching and interaction, I guess I developed an assessment tool that I thought would help people, that would bring out the best in them, show them their options. You know, most of us view ourselves in a box. We don't go beyond that box.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't look ourselves as a box bumping into other boxes. Right, right.
Speaker 3:We don't bump up In a warehouse, right, right, right, we don't bump up that box. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. We sometimes have a limited scope and vision and view of who we are as professionals and we don't see that higher vision of ourselves, of what we can be.
Speaker 1:That enablement of creating and I know this is such a buzzword, but creating a safe place where people can grow to become the best version of themselves. I hate using that word because it has so many implications about a safe space that we're nerfing the world around people. But I think it's you know when you do and your assessment is like an hour long you do a comprehensive assessment of multifaceted functions of who a person is right.
Speaker 2:Well, it takes them 15 minutes to take it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But to walk through it with me, I like to spend an hour so that I'm explaining, in that they understand every single like you said facet and every single module that it talks about.
Speaker 1:Which is you know. Somebody was like how does she know? So that that portion was powerful you know it's like how does she?
Speaker 1:know and like just in, in such a, you know, I just I've it's, I've done several of them and it evolves a little bit, but not a lot, you know. Yeah, and depending on the responsibilities that I have in the organization, I used to be ceo of the company. Now I'm the ceo of the company and just, I think that's a, it's a great leap to to do, um, that, the assessment and those different positions. But, man, um, you know, there was a couple team members that were like how does she know?
Speaker 1:and I'm like it's spot on it, it and there's. It's like it's this spot on assessment that takes a very you know, very short period of time to do, and then it gives you these insights of carrots versus sticks, versus areas of competency, areas of conflict where they're in conflict with their values. You know, it's like mine had effectiveness and fun. I was like I always see that blot. You know there's this little blot on it that, if it has spikes on it.
Speaker 1:It's like your fun portion is in conflict with your effectiveness portion. And I'm like man, I talk about effectiveness on a regular basis. But, I have this. You know conflict with fun. It's like I like to have fun, I like to create a fun working environment where people can be comfortable to do that, but also effective. And you know, sometimes those things are in conflict.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting because I I think in general, I know in general, that we do not have the language that we need to define our own values, language that we need to define our own values.
Speaker 1:So the assessment gives us the language. That's that's really, yeah, I think that's that's, um, that's very accurate. You know, it's like it gives you, I think, more than the language, the framework yes you know, because it does.
Speaker 1:It is the language and the containers of the frameworks that touch. Talk on each one. Right, it says your culture is similar to this leader. Right, and you, it's like your company culture is similar to this company and you fit in an organization that is in a hybrid or entrepreneurial style. And you know, in the dealership space we talk about seasons of the dealership a lot.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You know what season is the dealership in, and there's very marked seasons, and the marked season is, like you know, you recently acquired this dealership and it was for lack of a better term a shit show right, okay.
Speaker 1:Because you don't buy, usually don't buy unless you're a public company. You usually don't buy a great operation. You usually buy something that. That's something you can turn around. Yeah, exactly like an HGTV kind of dealership and you know you need certain people and certain personality types for that very commando. You know, crawling through the mud and it's, it's very brash and there's a certain, there's a certain style for that and that's a season right yeah, there's a season of growth, where you're establishing processes and you know really creating kind kind of the marathon portion of it.
Speaker 1:And then there's the fine tuning. And there are very distinct differences between those and I think your assessment does such a good job of where do the employees fall into their style, into that organization and what you're describing, John, are the stages of growth of a company because you're right.
Speaker 2:Each company has a certain stage of growth. It could be from a startup all the way through a large corporation and there are also stages in between, so that was a really good summation actually, Like you really get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, I hope after seven, seven years, I think seven or eight years.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're looking at this, that yeah, it's, it's really been incredible.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about how. Your background, like how did you get into this? Like how and I know you're extraordinarily passionate about figuring people out- but, how did, how did you come to this?
Speaker 2:figuring people out. But how did you come to this? I think I've always been passionate about figuring people out. When I moved down here in 1993, I moved here with my ex-husband and we opened up an orthodontic practice and his specialty clearly was being an orthodontist and my specialty was community relations, hiring, training people. And I actually carved out each administrative role, put somebody in that role, took a step back, carved out the next role, took a step back, you know. Put somebody in there, took a step back until I finally took a step all the way out of the office. But during that time I realized that I do have a passion for training people. But it's funny because it wasn't until years later, when I took my own, you know KBAT assessment, that I found out that one of my highest skill sets well to marketing and also training, hr and training. And then it all clicked. I'm like that's why I was so successful in that role because, I did go on to try other roles that.
Speaker 2:I wasn't so successful at. You know, and we all have that right, like well, we try and we yeah, but so I guess to continue the journey there. After I stepped out of the office, I did try my hand at a few different things. After I stepped out of the office, I did try my hand at a few different things and then I started working with busy professionals who didn't have the time to get to all the network meetings and to schmooze and to do all the things that they needed to do.
Speaker 2:So, having had that experience of building the practice working hand in hand with the orthodontist, I knew how to network people. So it was during that time that I realized that clients were also coming to me for different needs, and I'm a process person. I need to know where to start, and if everybody's coming to me with different needs, I need to figure out one portal of entry.
Speaker 2:So, again during that time, it was when I came across this assessment, this behavioral scientist and I said you know, this is an incredible product. However, it's not being used currently in the coaching space. I'm noticing, and I'd love to work with you to develop this tool into a coaching tool. And that's essentially what we did. We spent six months fine tuning what I needed to be in the assessment, and then the rest is history. Wow, although I have to add something. Prior to COVID, you know, there were a lot of you know, quote unquote personality tests out there.
Speaker 2:So people weren't really ready for change. It wasn't until COVID that professionals really latched on and this product got incredible traction, because people were ready for innovation, they were ready for something new, they were ready to learn more about themselves and see more of their options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, um, that's, that's such a good point. It seems like there was a time to give everybody, like a pause button. Is what kind of uh, some weird secondary effect that happened during COVID is like, yeah, a lot of tragedy, a lot of stuff happened, but in there were some other side during COVID is like, yeah, a lot of tragedy, a lot of stuff happened, but in there were some other side effects that were like people took time to take a deep breath and be like okay, am I doing the best that I can do with this business? Am I doing and just gave people a new paradigm or a new like rule set to innovate, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely Look. If you're talking about the dealership business, look at pandemic of positivity that literally came out of COVID.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly. I mean David Long is. You know, you hear a lot of these guys that are, and you're a fellow club house-ian.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know the dealership spaces that we're constantly in and we know a lot of the same people. But you're absolutely right, that pandemic of positivity clubhouse was has changed the way that I do business A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, and I think we each have a medium that we grasp onto, like that. Right, and that's why there are so many out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I grew as a human being, as a father, as a professional, as a husband, you know, and through Clubhouse it was just, it was really inspiring, I don't know. I'm so grateful that that I was able to kind of connect with that, with that environment.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I'm so glad you brought that up, because I have literally watched you evolve in your role as CEO.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Like from where you started with the company, having you know partners, and now you know just running the company, and I watched as you just assumed that role and just stepped into that power, which was incredibly cool to witness.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. I can, you know, I can thank you. I have a lot of thanks to give to you because of that process, because it was a checkpoint throughout this process that was really important for me to go through and connect and soundboard and do that. And you know, like I've said a lot, you are Wendy Rhodes, you know that performance coach, I can be like am.
Speaker 1:I crazy, am I? What am I missing here? And you frame stuff for me in a way that I'm like now I know what I got to do and I'll go back and do it, and then we'll check in again and do that process. So it's like I, would, you know, highly recommend if you don't have somebody like you in their lives, in their lives, get one you know and or reach out to you to be able to do that, because it's like having a superpower, you know. Yeah, and I think people really appreciate when the company gives them support and tools to be able to understand themselves, you know a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:I just had this conversation with a woman yesterday, with one of my corporate clients, and, believe it or not, she was actually contemplating leaving the company. So you know, we looked at that. I didn't, I didn't dive into that right away. We, we looked at that, we, we had some conversation around that and then towards the end of the session I said you know, I don't know if you're aware of this, but the company doesn't invest in everyone the way they're investing in you. And she said what I said they're paying my fee so that they can help you step into your next role here at the organization. They're investing in you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's a paradigm shift, right and we're not talking $50 an hour.
Speaker 2:We're talking they're investing in you. And she said I never looked at it that way because she was feeling devalued. But, like you said, it's a paradigm shift. All of a sudden. I put it in perspective that they are literally taking the time, taking the resources, investing it into her because they believe in her, they believe that she has more to give, they believe she can be a top performer, they believe she can dig a little deeper man, I, that's it.
Speaker 1:just it puts in perspective so many things you know. It's like us as managers sometimes don't have the vocabulary to be able to to convey that information Right. And you could say, and it might not be the right, you know the way, right way that you relate to somebody you know and and for me it happens a lot Like we're a company that has a lot of technicians and I come from a technical background and I'm a little bit of a knuckle dragging idiot, you know, when it comes to stuff.
Speaker 3:I just got the visual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just like you know, like fix this or fix that, and that's my background, you know, and I like to fix things and fix things with my hands.
Speaker 2:Box checker and a fixer. Box checker and a fixer checker and a fixer.
Speaker 1:You know that's my, that's my, mo, right, and but throw in a little creativity in that, you know. So that that's my, that's my thing, and, um, you know, sometimes when I relate to people, I don't have the language to be able to to do that, and even I've done a ton of work on that on that front and even with that, sometimes I don't have the language because how I relate to that person is from that technical perspective. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It's like I don't relate from a….
Speaker 2:Right, you relate from the work perspective, but not from the emotional intelligence, social intelligence perspective. I can't begin to tell you how many clients, over the years, we have sat down and scripted conversations for them to have with a coworker, with a supervisor, with someone who they were managing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, that's brilliant because it creates another framework to have that conversation. And if you put that in context with their KBAT, you know you have that in context. Like well, their carrots and their sticks are X, y and Z and then they, you know, thrive on recognition or they thrive on, you know, being supported or being part of a team. You can really adjust your conversation to go and hit those points, because you know we lose so much money and so much time and investment and effort on these people that in most cases are incredible, but because they don't have that little click thing, they move on to another organization or you know they have a conflict or they're creating a toxic environment.
Speaker 1:And you know, if you're, if you've already invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into somebody, not only in salary, but an effort and team and everything that you're doing right, and even momentum, to lose that because of not having additional information, of this assessment that can give you Right of how to relate to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what's interesting about what you're talking about is that most of us tend to speak to our values, whether we know, like, let's say, somebody's number one value is challenge. Whether they know that or not, when they speak, when they go to enroll someone into some kind of vision, they're going to talk about the challenges and it's going to be great. We're going to, we're going to work towards this challenge, we're going to solve this. But what happens if somebody else's number one value is different? Maybe somebody else's number one value is contribution. So all they want to know is well, you know, he didn't really, or she didn't really, or they didn't really hit on the way that I'm going to be able to lend my expertise. So I don't know if this, this project, is really for me right there.
Speaker 3:There are so many different ways to communicate.
Speaker 2:You know, and maybe that wasn't the best example, but the point being that there are so many ways to communicate to a person that when you want to enroll them into a project of vision or a conversation or something pertaining to emotional and social intelligence, it's good to know their values, not just yours.
Speaker 1:It's good to know theirs. I think that that was a perfect example Because you know we come into so many initiatives that you know, as executive leadership, whatever you want to say, whatever position you're in, and even if in your department let's say you're, you're in, you know the obscure department in the back and you want to implement something, knowing somebody's the common language or that subconscious gripping point that they have, that you're like why is this person so stubborn on doing this? Like, well, you're not speaking their I don't let's lack of a better term love, love language. You know of their work, love language. You know what I mean. I don't know, I don't know if that's the right term to say, but you know. If you're saying, hey, you know this is going to be a great challenge and challenges my driving value, and they're like no, I want to be part of a team.
Speaker 3:It's like if I want to win right, if I want to win as a leader I'm going to be like hey.
Speaker 1:I mean, what do you think, as a, as a valuable team member, that we should do to make sure that this happens? Hey, do you see a problem? Or like uh, do you see, have you noticed that this, this trend, that's happening? And they're like yeah, I've noticed that, but I didn't want to really want to say anything because you know're gonna probably do something like hey, man, what, what if we just team up and do this and you drop those things in and suddenly you get buy-in from that team and then you're, you're off to the races that was a perfect example, exactly because then that that person, that team, they feel valued, they feel heard, they feel included, right, I, I sometimes feel that sometimes, in order to be right and to be loyal to their subconscious structure, you know value structure, yeah, that people will be.
Speaker 1:You know, like that, that relunctant donkey that you're trying to pull, you know, like pull up the hill, you know, and just not. You know just out of, like sheer. You know what's that called when you do something, it's like malicious compliance. Have you ever heard of that term, malicious compliance?
Speaker 1:I mean, I've heard of each of those words, but I don't know that I've heard of it together, yeah, but so like malicious compliance is like, hey, we're going to do this initiative and we're going to move all those boxes from here to over there. And they literally just move the boxes from here to over there when you've given them the bigger picture and you're like, okay, we're organizing the office and one of the tasks is to move the boxes from here to over there and there's there's a shelving unit right and they literally put the boxes in front of the shelving unit and not organized in the shelving unit. That's malicious compliance right.
Speaker 1:It's like they technically did what you asked them to do, but not in the context of the bigger picture, because I believe that they didn't have the substructure of value alignment. Interesting Does that make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I, when you said that example, I was thinking you know, I call that belligerence.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, of course you know I'm not, you know.
Speaker 2:they're not asking why. You know, or or hey, do you need to get to the shelves behind it? It's just okay. He wants us to do this. We're going to do this, that's it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and I think that that's malicious I think people almost don't don't get ownership of a process because there isn't real true buy-in they say yes, but don't say yes here, you know right.
Speaker 2:They don't say yes in their heart. They don't say yes in their heart, exactly. Interesting, yeah, so if you speak to their values, yes, then you get full compliance, exactly you get.
Speaker 1:You get them on board. And they'll be like you know what John, we should do actually, instead of doing it in a thing, we should label them from A to Z, and actually there's stuff that is, you know, that's a great idea. There's stuff that we use more than other things, so we could make that more accessible in this other cabinet. So that's like the quick access cabinet and this is a long-term storage cabinet and suddenly you have momentum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and those small winds of momentum create effective, highly effective teams. Yeah, yeah, great example. Um, that is when you are, when you're inspiring them to bring their own ideas to the table.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And the only way to do that is by resonating with their internal value structure.
Speaker 2:With their values. Yeah, yeah. Perfect, we got it all solved.
Speaker 3:Perfect. We just have to do that to everybody Right in the world, Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good that's. That's funny. So how you know what? What themes have you seen in the you?
Speaker 2:know you probably done hundreds, not thousands, of of of kbats oh yeah what are common themes that you see?
Speaker 1:have you, do you see like common personality profiles or this like this is like the professor or the scientist and the you know coach and the like. Do you see these like emergent themes that come on?
Speaker 2:people. There are definitely themes, so you know. There there's one where, um, the person is that hundred thousand foot view person and they also have a competitive culture and they also want to scale quickly and or or they want to scale and lead a team, and that I call the trifecta. Right.
Speaker 2:I say everyone should have one of these okay one of the a person with this profile on their team, because this is a person who is in it for the long haul. They're going to get it done, no matter what it takes. They make sure that it's quality and then they build on that quality. And then you also have other individuals who are all about helping people. They're not really motivated through the sheer power or passion of doing something themselves. It's more about how can I help others, and if you show me the way that I can make an impact on another human being or advocate for that other human being, then I'm all about it, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, and you know, I've done a couple other assessments that you know. The've done a couple other assessments. Oh yeah, you know, is it the Myers-Briggs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's Myers-Briggs. There's a lot of really good ones, and then the DISC one. There's the Harrison that breaks it down. Yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1:DISC assessment of, like, if you're a D, whatever that is, and then there's like the animal one. It's like are you a lion, are you a gazelle, are you?
Speaker 2:a rabbit or a turtle.
Speaker 1:There's a, there's a couple of, but like I think the one that I most resonate with is yours, because it has all of it. You know, it has many aspects of what that looks like, because it does also give you a company that you resonate with, does tell you where you're in that journey, you know. It tells you where, like, what kind of leader you are, where your conflicts are, carrots and sticks. It tells you really a full personality profile of what, what, that that individual can have. So, kind of. With that said, what do you have? Does those assessments go into kind of a larger thing and talk about an organization, like, if you have an organization that have like too many conflicts, like of people, or is like, is there like a holistic, systemic? You know KBAT?
Speaker 2:I think that what you're asking is if I've used the KBAT within organizations to like make nice nice and have everybody play nice in the sandbox.
Speaker 1:Well, not as much as that. Well, that's a very good point. But I mean, like, have you used the k-bat to say there's a probability that's going to be a lot of conflict in this organization? Or you know the seasons as well? It's like there's there's too many like oh, like there's too many chefs, yeah like there's too many chefs or there's too many, you know there's too many.
Speaker 1:you know there's too many people in the middle management that don't, you know sync well together and it's like, oh, this place is like man, this is a well-oiled machine because the people that are in the places have the personality profiles and it's like making an effective team. Is that something? You get insight from an organization that way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is definitely a thing. Okay, okay, get insight from an organization that way, yeah, that is definitely a thing. Okay, that is definitely a thing. So, for instance, recently I evaluated a company and the executive and his right hand had absolutely perfectly complimentary skill sets. Where one was weak, the other was strong, and vice versa.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And you could see where and how that played out in the success of their company.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really really cool.
Speaker 1:That's super cool yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there are times, yes, that we go in, and there are. You know, maybe a couple of people are a little charged with each other and they're not really getting along.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we see that not only might they have values that are in conflict with each other, but there are also some other like deciding factors, right, and I'll give you an example. So I had this one, this one organization. I was evaluating two people and one person. It showed on the assessment how they went about, you know, solving problems, finishing up a challenge and moving on to the next, the next project, and their counterpart was the type of person who liked to go back and check off the boxes again even after the project was completed and, believe it, not something so simple like that was causing conflict between the two of them. So there are so many different factors and different points and places on the profile that you can look at and see okay, well, they're not going to align here, they're not going to align here. And there are also ways to sit down with those you know same said people and show them how the other person thinks and why the other person acts that way.
Speaker 2:And it pretty much goes like this. You know they're not trying to be difficult, this is just they're not trying to be difficult, this is just their.
Speaker 1:You're not trying to be an ass, right, I was trying to be nice.
Speaker 3:I was trying to be nice. They're not trying to be difficult, but this is just their professional DNA.
Speaker 2:This is just the way they think. It's just the way they're made, and once you illuminate that, it's not that the problem goes away a hundred percent. But I got to tell you it's like you know. You know 90 better yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a huge win if you de-conflict an organization. Yeah, I like that word de-conflict yeah, de-conflict, an organization by 90, that's a huge. And that's what momentum I think conflict is a momentum killer and I'm like, I'm so interested in this concept of momentum yeah, that dynamic, like you know the art of war right. It's like momentum is everything. It's like you. You know the art of war right. It's like momentum is everything. It's like you start. You know it's so hard to start a business.
Speaker 3:Oh God, yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 1:I have a graveyard of businesses that I started in my past, right Just getting the fire lit and then dealing with personalities and dealing with conflict and dealing with that. It's like you want to maximize your chances of the team members that you bring in understand them. Right, it was hard enough to get them. Yeah, it was hard enough to bring them in. Might as well invest in them while they're here. It's like yeah.
Speaker 3:I am I don't go, I have a story, you know it.
Speaker 2:it's really sad, it's actually sad. Um, and so there was an organization that wanted to hire an individual and we assessed the person and there were so many red flags that came up on the profile. I said you know what? This is going to be a very problematic individual and, like a year later, the person died by suicide.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:Right, it was that problematic, it was that and I would have had no idea about that, but it's just the impact of that and the news was just devastational. But you know, there are things that you can see. I mean, you know you can't see everything with any one profile, but there are red flags. So I have organizations that come to me and say you know, we've narrowed it down to these two people. Can you help us figure out which would be the best choice for this role? Right, and it's not the answer. It's just part of a bigger picture, but it's one piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right, and I know that that story was extreme. Yeah, you know. It's just that it's one piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 1:No, and I think it puts things into context of as much as you can say. A person can come into the be, come into the system, come into the team and be. You know, uh, michael jordan, they can also come into the team and, like, create chaos and toxicity and it just it and, and that momentum goes both ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes. That moment and and thank you for bringing that up because it does talk about the momentum if you do it in a negative way, can destroy a highly effective team by bringing somebody in that has conflict or has some internal value stuff or whatever that looks like. That is on a path that it's like. You know we're here to support our team members, but you know, if we can avoid putting ourselves and amplifying their stuff too, because you know putting them not in the right environment is is, is as bad as as any other scenario. So I mean, I I think that's that's an appropriate conversation to have as as leaders, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We really have to be careful when we're selecting whether we have chaos already in the organization or whether it's totally at peace. You know we need to be highly cognizant of who we add to that team Right. Especially, look, you know, with the constellations at the end of the day. You know many teams act like a family dynamic. Yeah, and we have to be careful who we bring into our family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course. Of course we can relate to that right. Yeah, 100, 100. You know we're on clubhouse, on the, on the rooms. We have this conversation on a regular basis. It's like experience means both, right, like experience means both. It's the good stuff but also all the crap. You know that you're bringing in good point you know, it's like some people.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, I need somebody with experience. Like, well, yeah, you're bringing in all the baggage and all the crap and they have, and you know if they had an inappropriate relationship with an employee, if they had what all the stuff, you know they may be a killer and they can close all the deals, but they got all the other stuff other stuff, and I think that's why understanding the team is so important.
Speaker 2:You know you're bringing. When you bring somebody in, you bring in innovation and the way they've always done things yeah yeah you bring in both sides of the coin, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean, when I was in the military, there was this, this phenomenon that would happen a lot. They would say, well, at my last base, you know, at the last place that they were, they would always go back to this. It's like we always did it this way at my last base and it's like, no, you're part of the new system now and that assimilation rate is really important to be. You know, and in the dealership space there's a lot of turnover. It's about 10%, 20% on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:It happens a lot. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of turnover and you're constantly bringing in new people into the organization and I think that if you were, I don't. I don't know of a more effective way of spending your dollars than to understand your team and they use the this, this, as a process of onboarding and be like are you a good fit? And are you not a good fit? Are you going to be toxic to the team because it's opening a door that I think a lot of people know is closed? That, or a lot of people believe it's closed because you could find the best, coolest general managers doing this stuff. And then they're the, the.
Speaker 1:you know they're the bees knees for the first six months and then suddenly yeah the bottom falls out and you find out that they have. You know they're. They're wanted in a couple states and it's's a big issue, yeah that happens. That is not something that is rare in the industry.
Speaker 2:So first of all, thank you for your service to our country.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't shoot anybody. I didn't get shot at.
Speaker 3:I was a mechanic. I had a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yes, but, I mean, I don't want to minimize it, but there's heroes. There's real heroes out there, and I'm not one of them, but there's heroes.
Speaker 2:there's real heroes out there, and I'm not one of them. Second of all, I was going to ask you a question about what you just said. Oh yeah, what do you attribute that 10% turnover rate to in the industry?
Speaker 1:Man, I think it's about incentives. You know I think it's about incentives. Man know I think it's about incentives. Man, this is going to sound really bad coming from me, but I'm going to say it anyways, because I think it's important to have this conversation. Is that if you pay somebody based on the bottom line, you're going to get bottom line results. That, at whatever it takes, you're going to make that happen At, sometimes, the sacrifice of everything else, right?
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I think the pay structure for executive team members you know, in many capacities it's like they get 10% of the bottom line you know, so what does that incentivize In good capacities?
Speaker 1:it incentivizes growth, right, like the good way is like growth and really maximizing gross profit or maximizing net profit for the organization and really creating those incentives for that. But on the other end, it's cutting costs. Every month the chalkboard gets erased and you're starting from zero, and I think it doesn't set up the incentives for long-term sustainable growth for the organization, because your pay is not based on training, penetration, process improvement, development, customer or employee development and like really building the long-term pace of the organization. It's like this general manager didn't work. Ax them, bring another one in that says that they can do better, right, and so that's. I think that's why that happens in the business and also in many capacities.
Speaker 2:the business is so successful that it doesn't need it I think this is a fascinating conversation because with the k-bat, it actually helps to create top performers. Yep, and that's what you know if you want that bottom line to increase and to get paid more and I understand your point about maybe not basing it off of the bottom line However, as the bottom line increases, you know, like a rising tide.
Speaker 3:Rises, all ships yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think that top performers in an organization make a huge difference. Yeah, I mean our organization. We're all salary right.
Speaker 1:Top performers in an organization make a huge difference. Yeah, yeah, right, I mean our organization. We're all salary right. Um, most dealerships are commission based, yeah, and so that creates a certain environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're. You have an incredible culture at VTech.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you know um it's mainly thanks to you I'm going.
Speaker 2:no, no no, I'm going to tend to disagree with that and I'll tell you why and how I know.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:So when we did the culture survey, one of the questions was do you feel like you have someone who cares about you at the organization? And another one was do you have a mentor at VTech? And across the board, across the board, everyone said yes.
Speaker 1:Well, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:And they, you know, either named you or you know they, they named your other partner, right Um, it was really amazing. It was incredible.
Speaker 1:That's very humbling to hear.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:It was really, it was really nice.
Speaker 1:Giving a shit is very powerful.
Speaker 3:Yes, Well put, yeah, yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is, yeah, it's like it's.
Speaker 2:You know, people know how much you care.
Speaker 1:That's that's it and they know.
Speaker 2:They know across the board.
Speaker 1:And caring also with expecting more of them as well. You know, like the I don't know if it's I hate to put it in this term but it's like I know that you can do better and I know that we can do better.
Speaker 2:Potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like seeing the potential.
Speaker 2:And maximizing it and maximizing that. Yeah, like seeing the potential and maximizing it.
Speaker 1:And maximizing that, yeah, absolutely, because just caring is, you know, just caring is. This can be seen as a oh, they just care, you know. It's like this kind of soft way of saying no, no, no, no Caring is to say you're messing up and I know you can do better and I've seen you do better and I'm going to hold you accountable to be able to do better.
Speaker 2:And it may not even be you're messing up, it may be you're doing so great in this area we're going to expand you into that area and help you grow that incredible management potential that you have.
Speaker 1:And I think the KBAT does that to say is this person a potential candidate to be able to take on more responsibilities? And what is it? The Peter Principle Are you familiar with the Peter Principle? Yes, Like people get promoted to their highest level of incompetence. It's something like that, you know.
Speaker 2:Something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you're good at something and you're like I'm a great mechanic.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, you know what? I'm so glad you brought this up. So glad because this is what we deal with constantly. Yeah, so someone is good at their job and then they get promoted to management.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Without having the management skills of holding other people accountable. Yep other people accountable, delegating, making sure that everybody is using their you know, rising to their highest skill level and using their time wisely.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So people get promoted, but they're not necessarily and that is a lot of the work that we do, you know coming in and helping middle managers to be just that excellent middle managers yeah right, I mean, you see it all the time.
Speaker 1:You see a great employee gets promoted and then they're terrible and then they leave the organization with all of that institutional knowledge. Right, you know you have a brain drain. That happens like out of just not having the right information, the right tool, having the right information. Or the right tools or the right tools like the KBAT right, and I keep pitching it because I think it's an incredible process, but on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:they said, oh, you're a great employee, you're doing stuff, you show up on time, and then you're like man, it's a risky move, I'm going to promote it to manager and it's 80% of the time it fails. Yeah, you know, and sometimes, and and we, we, we think that that's the standard and there's an additional door that needs to be open and conversation to be had. They can say, okay, maybe the person does need more money. They're an incredible employee. You don't want to lose them. Create a pay structure that just gives them more money, you know, or what that looks like, and that's in alignment with goals and departmental goals and doing stuff without making a manager. Because you might get somebody from Best Buy or Target or you know, from outside of the industry. You can bring them in as a manager and suddenly they're great because they fill out the needs of the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you know, and when it comes to management, it's really important to have people who are good connectors. So I don't have to think the way you think, but I have to have empathy and compassion for the way you think, and I think that is the most, that's one of the most important things, right? And again, I don't have to agree with you, but I can have a conversation with you and then figure out, right, with a little ingenuity, how to help you reframe the way you're looking at a situation. Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's very important. So it's about connecting with the person first and then using that tool of reframing or whatever tool is in their arsenal to use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's. That's powerful, because we come into. You know I was I was listening to somebody. Is that I was listening to somebody on either Instagram? I was like I follow a lot of the entrepreneurs on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like are you going into a conversation with your preconceived notions in order to be right about this person? Yes, and won't even hear the new information. And I'm like the narrative that we've already created around this person is that they're XYZ, good or bad, right, and if it's outside of that XYZ formula, you don't even receive the information because your preconceived filter of you know, just because of operational saturation, is like oh, they're being, they're being stupid about this. I'm not going to listen to it, I'm going to completely dismiss it. And there's valuable information there.
Speaker 2:This reminds me of what you brought up earlier when you said institutional knowledge, which is also the historical knowledge where, even as a coach coming in, I had two situations just in the past week where there was a conflict between two people and it looked one way from the surface. However, bringing in that historical knowledge, that institutional knowledge, completely reframed the situation and I think a lot of times we need to go that level deeper because we as human beings, we like to put things in buckets, we like to put things in nice little buckets Like oh, I've seen this before.
Speaker 2:This falls into ABC bucket. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:There is a backstory and a whole lot of information which actually make this situation fall into XYZ bucket, which is a whole different bucket yeah, yeah, and I'm a fan of helping people process buckets, because you know, meeting people where they are at the time is very different than where they are in the future. You know it's like, oh, um, you know it's. It's like relationships, right, it's like, if I can't water under the bridge, most of my relationship, I'd be divorced by now, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, of course, and my wife's an incredible human being yeah we have an incredible relationship but you know there's been and if I'm harboring that stuff and just putting it on the.
Speaker 1:You know the. Oh, I'm gonna use this for later board, right, you know, and I'm gonna weaponize it. Uh, you know, bash the. Oh, I'm going to use this for later board, right, you know, and I'm going to weaponize it, you know, bash you over the head with it Whenever we have the next conflict, or we're going to take that you know crappy momentum into whatever new dynamic we're going to have and not be able to water under the bridge this thing. It's going to be set up for failure set up for failure.
Speaker 2:That was such a great analogy, because it's all about being able to process our emotions and then communicate our emotions it's the difference between just blurting something out in the moment yeah versus taking a pause for the cause breathing through it, thinking through it and then revisiting the conversation, peacefully, calmly, you know, and sometimes that could be difficult to do during a hectic workday.
Speaker 1:that's very demanding and you're rushing around and phones and customers and support and tickets and problems and all that however, it's that pause button hitting the pause button is so important and you know, I one thing that I, that I started doing with everybody and I tried to do this in my life is like have the crappy conversation afterwards. You know, have, don't, don't shy away from having that conversation, because that's where the relationship is really built is in the hey, you got a minute and then you have. When you said this, it came across as this. And it's not emotional, right, it's just like it comes across as this. And I know you're not trying to do that, right, I know we're trying to just communicate and have a conversation and exchange information, but when you do this in this way this is how it makes me feel it can come across as this. And I know it's not your intention to do that. It's illogical for you to be able to, unless you're going around weaponizing and hurting people, you can have that conversation and be like have that crappy conversation afterward.
Speaker 2:I feel like a proud mama right now because you and I have had that conversation.
Speaker 3:That was so perfect.
Speaker 2:The way you just outlined it. That was just so amazing and I think a lot of people don't know the framework to have a conversation like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and they suck they suck.
Speaker 1:And for people that avoid conflict, for people they, they're, they're, they're. Crappy conversation, be like hey, that came off as this, and you're like I know it wasn't your intention, I know it wasn't this, but this is how it came off.
Speaker 3:Came across and I'll work.
Speaker 1:I'll look at my stuff that to figure out why I took it that way and why. You know, whether you want to call it triggered or activated or whatever you want to call it, I'm like man, there's probably something I have to look at here. But when you say something of that nature, it comes off as this way and I was like let's fix it. And they're probably like man. I'm sorry, I didn't know that that was the case. And you fix it. Water under the Bridget and move on.
Speaker 2:You know, this is making me think of something, so I'm going to share something a little personal that most people don't know about me, which is that recently I started taking Latin and ballroom dance classes. And it started in January and what I noticed is that you know a lot of people have their own style in their own way.
Speaker 2:You know one person will tell you no grip like this you know, with your hands and then another person will say, no, do this type of grip. So everybody has their own way. But I noticed that when I dance, a lot of men will say to me you know, can I give you some feedback? Or maybe they'll just say, hey, this is what you want to do, but then they'll apologize afterwards. I'm like, why are you apologizing? Like you know, I'm sorry, I don't want to like offend you.
Speaker 3:I'm like I am all about constructive criticism.
Speaker 2:And I think that when constructive criticism is delivered kindly and nicely, because somebody genuinely wants to see me grow or to see a person grow, that should be warmly accepted with open arms. And that goes back to emotional and social intelligence right, are we able to process the way somebody is delivering information to us? Are we able to say, hey, are they trying to be mean? Are they trying to be mean about this, or are they wanting to see me grow? See, there's a whole thought process behind it that we have to ask ourselves. So on the dance floor, I say to myself you know, this is a person who wants to see me dance even better, and I'm excited to learn this. And if we each go into whether it's a hobby or with our family or with our work, if we each go into a situation embracing the learning right, having an open mind, I think that's called a growth mindset, a growth mindset, yeah, as opposed to a fixed mindset right.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly, exactly. Rise up, harold's work, right, yeah, yeah, that is like have a learner mindset. You know that, you're constantly. You know, and I do some volunteer work in Miami. It's like grown is not a word that's allowed in those circles. It's like man, I'm grown. He's like no, no, you're not grown, we're growing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Always growing, and I think that that growth mindset is such a powerful place to be. It's like I haven't arrived yet. Nobody's arrived.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're constantly learning, we're constantly growing. We're constantly becoming better versions of ourselves, and growth hurts sometimes. Yeah, it's not always comfortable, it could be painful, but also have the challenge and have the courage to demand that people become what you see in them. I think that that's what real love is. It's like I know you can do better. I know you can become the best version of who you are, and I want to help you do that, because if you do that, I can see myself doing that as well. It's like to really become, you know, to become complete and to become the best version of you and you know I talk about this with people in the company is a lot is like.
Speaker 1:I want your journey to be here to be the most, you know, the most fulfilling journey that I can happen. Yeah, that six months, if that's 10 years, if that's 20 years, that while we were in each other's orbit, we made each other better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've heard you say that. It gives me chills every time I hear you say it.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:I think it's such a powerful concept because a lot of employers want their people to just stay exactly where they are, right in that spot. It's so important, though, to help them grow.
Speaker 1:It's about exchange, it's based on the principle of exchange. It's like I don't want you to, unless that's what you want to do. There's some people that are like, no, I just want to do this, I want to do my job, and they have other things and I'm like, okay, that's cool, but as long as that's an in a, an exchange and balance, I'm good with it. And if you're okay with that and we're, you know, exchanging that, I'm okay with that. But I like I, I really truly mean that I want your journey to be here to be a beautiful journey like that, to be like man. I'm so glad that they were in my life and I was in their life, you know yeah, it's impactful.
Speaker 2:I think that's a beautiful sentiment yeah. Yeah, very impactful. Yeah, you want every interaction to be purposeful.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like you said, if they're there for six months a year, 10 years, you want it to be purposeful and I want, like also that anybody that was part of our company, and that we're still friends. You know that we still connect and we still, you know like I, you know I have former business partners that we bought out, that you know we went to, we went to San Francisco together, him and his wife and me and my wife, and we had a blast. You know just such a good time. You know, catching up and talking and it's just like this. It's just, it really is beautiful.
Speaker 1:You know like it really is like a cherished relationships that you have in this, in this industry and especially in the car business. It's infinitesimal. It is everybody knows each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's incredibly inspiring stories out of this. There's incredibly inspiring, you know, people that are in this industry. That it's, you know. I talk about this industry being an industry of second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth chances. You know that people that were incarcerated, people that were, you know, suffering from addiction, there was people that have been in all sorts of life scenarios and now are some of the most inspiring people that you could ever be around.
Speaker 2:It's amazing.
Speaker 1:It's really incredible, and what more than to give them a tool to promote that and understand their teams better? That is amazing. It's really incredible, and what more than to give them a tool to promote that and understand their teams better?
Speaker 2:That is amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all about relationships, yeah. It's all about relationships and it's kind of like when you go through a breakup and having that emotional intelligence and that balance to be able to process what went right in the relationship, what went wrong, and then, if the person is not a malicious person to you, to basically have the wherewithal to still be somewhat friends with that person, as long as it wasn't like any type of really bad yeah, hurtful hurtful situation right, and it can be from a distance yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it can be, like it can be from a distance yeah, you know it can be well wishing from a distance, like they're this person, because of whatever conflict, whatever the things like I, I just you know. Wish you well yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be well wishes and it could be, you know, like it didn't work out for us in business, but we're still friends, yeah right, yeah, and, and you know, through this process that happens as well.
Speaker 1:There's people that you, that you lose along the way, and that's and that's okay, that's to be expected. Yeah, um, but I think as long as you internally don't entangle with whatever that is and can let go of those things, it's a it's a growing process you know, I've certainly gone through that like I've certainly, certainly gone through that, going through that process of, you know, letting people go and letting people go, that it's like it's that's the best part for them.
Speaker 1:You know, and I I think that's that's what I think is the best, like I don't want to rob them of an opportunity of growth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah. Yeah, so, Tracy. Um, if the incredible world that we live in of dealers and dealerships want to get ahold of you how would they do that?
Speaker 2:They can contact me? Uh, you can. They can email me at Tracy, at Tracy kawacom. So there's no E there's no I T R A C Y at T? R A C Y-A-W-Acom, or they can call me 561-239-0322. They can find me on LinkedIn. I'm relatively active on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also on Clubhouse.
Speaker 2:And Clubhouse and Clubhouse. Yes, Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if anybody's out there looking to better understand their teams or to just simply, you know, if you're between two candidates to understand which one you should go with and it's going to be the right fit for the organization and minimize risk.
Speaker 2:Reach out to Tracy, yeah or if you want to create high performers, top performers, you want to help your people reach their potential, If you want to help your people understand each other's values, to enroll each other into a vision or a project. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity to have this amazing conversation.
Speaker 1:John, thank you for coming and I hope we can do that soon. Do it soon again. Absolutely Thanks, john.
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming and I hope we can do that soon. Do it soon again.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Thanks, tracy, thank you.