The Work Seminar
The Work Seminar
Ep. 29: Balancing a Career & Creative Pursuits w/ Animal Advocate & Musician Jon Camp
Jon taught guitar lessons — including to, once upon a mid/late 90s time, yours truly — while finishing his liberal arts degree. Not long after graduation, his passion for animal rights drew him to leave teaching music for advocacy, and he’s worked full-time in the field ever since.
In his first 10 years of advocacy work, Jon played guitar and wrote tunes on the side, telling himself one day he’d take music more seriously. Then in 2012, a severe case of Lyme disease landed him in the ICU for over a week. After that reminder of life’s finite nature, Jon’s priorities shifted.
He incorporated playing and writing music into his daily routine, booked time in a studio, and released his first album in 2014. Since then he’s toured across the US, released three more albums, and made music a non-negotiable part of life. All while still devoting his 9-to-5 life to improving the treatment of animals.
Today, Jon’s been kind enough to walk us through the logistics and rewards of balancing a significant creative pursuit with a cause you love. And yes, there are plenty of sacrifices along the way. But in Jon’s experience, those concessions are a small price to pay for passion in your work and your art.
Resources mentioned
“How to be a Musician with a Day Job” and “How to Balance Full-time Work with Creative Projects” by Jeffery Silverstein
Where to find Jon, his music, and his advocacy work
Jon the Musician on Instagram and Twitter
Jon the Animal Advocate on Twitter
Jon’s induction into the Animal Rights Hall of Fame
Check out more from The Work Seminar
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Hey everyone. Thanks for joining me for another episode. I'm your host, Jesse Butts. Today, we're breaking a bit from our normal format with a bonus episode. I'd like to introduce you to someone you actually already have heard, Jon Camp. He is the man behind one of the best things about this show, the intro and the outro song. And yes, those are the same song. If you're wondering, that's the title track from his 2016 album Stifled-Hair Trigger. Jon is a full-time animal advocate and active musician, and he's here to chat about balancing ambitious career plans and creative projects. Jon and I met when he was my guitar teacher in junior high. After he left teaching to pursue animal rights activism, we managed to stay in touch over the years. Jon's currently the senior officer for community engagement at The Humane League. Jon, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me.
Jon Camp:Hey, Jesse. Thanks for having me. I'm, I'm delighted to be here.
Jesse Butts:So Jon, you and I go back a long time. So I think we should probably just, you know, establish a little bit of the timeline. So, I think I started taking guitar lessons from you, I wanna say in maybe 1995 or 96?
Jon Camp:Sounds about right. That's around when I started.
Jesse Butts:And, and just for our listeners. So Jon and I are both from northern Lake County, Illinois, which is the county just north of Chicago. Probably, you know, an hour, hour and 15 minute drive from the city back then. You were teaching guitar for a few years. Now, I remember if I'm remembering correctly, you were kind of wrapping up your degree while you were teaching at least initially, right?
Jon Camp:That's right. I was going to Columbia College in Chicago and got a, a general liberal arts degree, but I was focusing mostly on music of, of guitar studies and, and music composition.
Jesse Butts:We're going to be talking about balancing that work, passion, that artistic one, but I'd like to get a little bit of sense of your journey. You know, I, I, I remember when you stopped teaching, but I, you know, I was pretty young. I, I didn't really understand why adults do some of these So can you tell us a little bit about that transition from teaching guitar full-time to animal rights advocacy.
Jon Camp:Sure. Well, well, first I'll say, teaching the, the, the great joy of it was teaching individuals like you, where, where there were students who, who, who practiced what I, what I asked them to practice and, and, uh, but were, you know... I thought you were especially inquisitive and just an, an earnest and, and sweet kid. And, and yeah, it was, it was a real joy teaching you and, and I'm glad that we've stayed in touch. My journey out of teaching guitar, was that not every guitar student was like you. And, and there would be students who would, who would not practice what I asked them. And, and, weren't as much of a joy to teach as you. Additionally, I took, before I went to Columbia College, I was just going to College of Lake County in Grayslake, Illinois. I took an intro to ethics course, and we talked about various ethical issues in that class. And one day we talked about the plight of farm animals and, uh, I had always been concerned about animals, and I learned through that course, that today's farm animals do not lead good lives and lead lives of, of suffering. And, and it really hit me on a, on a visceral level and I wanted to do something for them and, and felt a real sense of urgency. So I continued teaching for a while while continuing to read about animal issues. And then it got to the point where maybe around the year 2000 I felt I needed to do something more for farm animals. I watched a documentary called A Cow at My Table, and there's this guy named Gene Baur of the group Farm Sanctuary who was interviewed. I was influenced by his work, and I quit teaching guitar lessons in the summer of 2000 and went out to Farm Sanctuary to intern for the summer. And, and during my internship there, I just realized that, Hey, this is something I wanna be doing full time. And after interning at Farm Sanctuary I moved to the Washington DC area and started getting more and more involved with animal advocacy. Started volunteering for groups. 2003, I got an offer from a group I was working with, or no, 2004, I got an offer with an organization I was volunteering for, Vegan Outreach, to, to be their first outreach coordinator. And so then I spent 10 years on the road, going from college campus to college campus, doing outreach on college campuses.
Jesse Butts:When you did pursue this, did you pretty much stop playing or stop playing actively? What was your relationship with music when you started... let's say like the first five years in moving into advocacy?
Jon Camp:Yeah. So I've always been a, you know, a music obsessive and a total music geek. And during this time, when I started advocacy, I was still regularly playing guitar. I brought guitars and amps with me, you know, every place I moved to. Sometimes even when on the road, I'd bring a guitar with me. Listened obsessively to music while traveling throughout the, the country for Vegan Outreach. So music was still an essential part of my life. I still, whenever I'd meet somebody on the road who is a music geek, I would, you know, have an affinity for them. So, so it was still a big part of my life. It was just that now the, the majority of my waking hours were going to advocacy and, and music was something that was fitting in in the midst of all this.
Jesse Butts:You know, you mentioned it was summer 2000 when you took that internship, but your first album, if I'm remembering correctly, wasn't released until about 2014.
Jon Camp:That's that's right. Yeah.
Jesse Butts:So was there a point where... did something happen where, you decided to go from filling in music when you could to making it much more a part of your everyday life? And, and I don't wanna say reembracing musicianship because I mean, you're, you are always a musician, but you know, maybe making that a, like I said, a bigger portion of your life?
Jon Camp:Yeah, where I prioritized it. Definitely, so I, along this time I was writing tunes still and, and there got to be a point where they were just accumulating and I had, had a decent number, but I also still was like, Someday, I'm gonna record these. Just about 10 years ago to this day, or close to it, in May of 2012, I passed out with a severe case of Lyme disease in, in Madison, Wisconsin. And I was brought to the, the ICU. And, and I spent about 10 days in the ICU with a pacemaker in me and, and connected to IV antibiotics and, and, you know, I'd say it's the closest to death I had, had been. And, and then you start to, to sense that some...that, that life's finite. And, and that you've only got so much time. And, and, I think that was a, a kick in the butt for me to, to be like, Music is really important to me. And I haven't really done as much with it as, as maybe I should have. And I've got this passion and, and these thoughts on music and, and some talent, you know, and, and I, I should maybe do something more with it. And so then I just started to, to look into what would go... what I'd need to do to put out an actual album. And started to think, Okay, I'm going to book some time to record some music. And I, in the winter of 2013, I booked some time at Developing Nations, a studio in Baltimore and, and recorded, you know, eight tunes. And, and then just figured out from there, how to, how to put it out into the world. But, but it was, yeah, I would say it was a combination of just the accumulation of, of tunes, but then also a sense of urgency from, from the Lyme incident.
Jesse Butts:And you're just for our listeners, you're fully recovered and, and doing well now from that?
Jon Camp:Thanks. Thanks for asking. Fully recovered. Thanks to Western medicine, the, the IV antibiotics and, and, you know, especially that took care of it. And, and fortunately, I was at a hospital where they knew about Lyme disease and they took it seriously. And, perhaps because of the aggressiveness of it, they treated it aggressively. And, and so, yes, I've not felt any symptoms essentially since I left the hospital.
Jesse Butts:Well, glad to hear that. And, and as you, you mentioned, maybe realize isn't the right word, but re reminded of the finiteness of life and the time we have, and what you wanted to accomplish... Was it a sense of, I'm more interested in music and a little bit less in animal advocacy? Or was it, I love these two things and I, I have to figure out how to make both of them, or... animal advocacy obviously was a priority, but, you know, achieving more balance or more time for the music?
Jon Camp:Yeah. I, it was definitely the latter where, where both were important to me and I, and I just realized that I could do both. I started to ask myself instead of just focusing all my waking hours on animal advocacy, could something give? And, and could I give, you know, something for music? And, and I realized that I could. And so then I just started making a concerted effort to put in time each night to, to work on this. I wouldn't say that necessarily my, my passion for animal advocacy was, was dropping. But I realized that I needed both in my life. And, and maybe I also realized that, I, I think I had maybe a little, a bit of this sense that, of like the martyr complex, where I just, Here are animal suffering and I need to give every waking minute of my life to it. But I realize that you can do both and that, you know, if you give like eight hours to something a day versus 10 hours, you know, for most people you don't accomplish too much with those extra those two hours. And, and I could, I could have both in my life. I also think the more you do something as a job there, there's also , a vibe of it , that it, it is a job in some ways. I'm fortunate that I'm, that I'm super passionate about animal issues, but, but you know, after doing it for 10 years, I, I maybe needed some extra spark to, to keep me engaged in the world. And if anything, it, it didn't really take away from me. It made advocacy sustainable for me that, that, Hey, I can put in a solid day of work. And then I reward myself at the end of the night by, by working on music.
Jesse Butts:Was that transition from, you know, working 10 hours a day to eight was that, challenging to, did it feel like you were giving up something? Or was it , this is kind of phase two or like whatever, you know, this is just a new way I'm approaching work, music, life?
Jon Camp:During this time, I had seen a, a number of my peers burn out. And, and so just that I was continuing to do it, I felt in some way I'd, I'd survived and I'd, you know, shown that this is something that still matters greatly to me. And so it, it more became kind of, as you were saying, phase two of, of how can I continue to do this work while making it sustainable, you know? And it's also like, I, I didn't do the music though to make advocacy sustainable. It's just something that, is, is a drive of mine as well. You know, I, I think that some people are looking throughout their life to find that one thing they're passionate about. I'm blessed and cursed to have two, two things that I'm, I'm deeply passionate about. And so then it's just been this balancing act of, of how to fit both into my life.
Jesse Butts:I, I wanna pause for a second when you were talking about music geek. I wanna clarify that because, you're the king of the castle. At least in my very small circle. I mean, you know, I remember, I mean, I must have been in seventh grade when some of the musicians you were introducing me to like, John Coltrane was probably the most mainstream. I mean, I remember Sun Ra
Jon Camp:uhhuh.
Jesse Butts:John Fahey. But I mean, you, you dig deep in, into catalogs and in genres that, you know, we're not gonna hear on, back in Chicago, Q101 or, know, something like that.
Jon Camp:Yeah. I'm a music obsessive. And, and so I, I, I guess I need some outlet for this.
Jesse Butts:Yeah, but, , but getting back to it, so, for those of us who, where we have two passions, you know, one might be a work passion and the other is artistic or creative passion. I'd love to hear a little bit about the logistics of how you manage this. I mean, I know that you, you work, but you have toured. You recorded. Y ou know, do you have a flexible schedule? How does it all work for you?
Jon Camp:That's a good question. It's, it's a balancing act and something that I need to be vigilant about. And for me, it's just having a daily... You know, first and foremost, having a daily schedule where music is, if at all possible non-negotiable, you know, music time is non-negotiable. And it means kind of doing the exact same thing. You know, it's kind of Groundhog Day for me every day in that I have, I have this schedule that I adhere to. And you know, I work a, a solid focused day of work, try to end by like 5.30ish. Do what I need to do. Maybe exercise, eat, call my parents. And then pretty much every day, starting at 8:00 PM is, is music time. And, and, and I try to get at least bare minimum an hour. Ideal time would be like an hour and a half, if you know, to two hours, if, if I'm lucky. So, so for first and foremost is just doing this every single day. And, and if you do something every day, it's like the muscle memory is there on the guitar. And, and especially when I'm writing tunes, the, the, the songs just add up if you're, if you're working on songs every single night. Also using vacation time to, to tour. You know, I'm looking at a decent amount of touring this year and, and, uh, I am using, uh, a good chunk of my yearly vacation time to make that happen. I'm, I'm fortunate to work for an organization that respects work life balance. And uh, I am not expected to be answering emails in the evening or the weekend. And so, so that means I can really get into a focus with my music, you know, even, even like today, the, the Humane League gives employees the last Friday off each month. So right now I'm talking with you thanks to what we have called Mended Heart Fridays, and they, they really respect work life balance. And so I think a combo of all that make it possible for me to, to continue really diving into my creative pursuit.
Jesse Butts:you had positions in the past where you were expected to, you know, answer emails in the evening or weekend that wouldn't have made returning to music as possible or possible at all.
Jon Camp:At first I was just so driven by animal issues that there were times where I'd spend 10 weeks on the road for, for Vegan Outreach. And, and yes, when I, when I would, you know, be in my, at my host place or motel, I'd still be answering emails up until the, the wee hours sometimes. I, I would often spend weekends doing that. so I would say it was more that self-inflicted than necessarily imposed on me. But, but I think at least in the sector I work, for the animal protection movement, I think as a whole we've, we've moved past this martyrdom complex stage and, and recognized that if we wanna have top talent and we wanna be a, a humane place to work, that we have to respect that, that individuals need a life outside of work. And, and also just the science shows that, that after about 40 hours, there's, there's diminishing returns with each hour worked. And so I think as a, as an evidence based organization, too, just the science suggests that you're gonna be just as good if you work 40 hours than if you work 50 hours.
Jesse Butts:For listeners out there who do have, you know, career or advocacy ambitions, plus the artistic and creative ambitions. And, and I hate to make it sound like that's a dichotomy. Because I realize they aren't, but what should they consider that you'd wished you'd known when you got serious about music?
Jon Camp:I would say first and foremost, that it's something that you can do. So, so I think sometimes it's, it's easy to just get stuck by inertia and just think, Uh, I can't fit this into my life. I've got too many other responsibilities. And so, so first and foremost, I'll just say it's something that's possible. For me also, you know, in some ways I wish I knew what a joy it is to, to follow the creative path. That, that as a result of putting this music out into the world, I've, I feel like I've been able to connect on a deep level with some folks who have, who have appreciated the music. I've, I've got a, a pretty large social network now based on fellow music geeks. And, and so just, you know, the, the sheer joy that it's brought me is, is pretty vast. And, and so, you know, I think just to keep in mind that there will be rewards from this. It's easy sometimes to, to have overly high expectations of this, that, Oh, I'm gonna reach thousands and thousands of people through this. And, and for me, it's been useful to, to just put the expectations lower. Of like, I'm gonna enjoy the process. I'm gonna put out the best tunes that I'm capable of putting out. And then after I do that, it's kind of beyond my control. I can promote it to the best of my abilities, but it's kind of beyond my control of how many people listen to this. So, so I don't know. I think the things that I would recommend are just to, to just get beyond that inertia and actually do it. And that it is possible to put something out into the world.
Jesse Butts:One of the new struggles that must come out of this is, I've put this work into the world, for you, it's an album, and you mentioned promoting it. Was that a bit of a, a struggle, like, If I promote it, more people will hear it. But the more I promote it, presumably that's less time I'm writing or recording.
Jon Camp:That's a great struggle. The, the kind of the, the, the logistics of music. That, that, yes, once I, I started putting this out in the world, I realized, Okay, s ometimes that hour I have for music, as much as I'd like to just go down and work on a new piece, I have to be promoting this, I have to be trying to book a tour. And so it's just also about finding that time for the, the logistical side. I find it's also kind of a creative challenge of, of how to, how to get more people to hear this. At some point though, I, I accept what I've got. Like, I, I don't spend endless amounts of time just trying to get that, that last person to hear my music. I, I put out a record. I, I feel I do my due diligence to make sure that everyone, I, I think should hear this, i, I reach out to them. But after that, I kind of think, Okay, I've done my part. It's time to, to get back in, in woodshed and, and to, to make new music and, and, you know, ultimately for this, I, I try to, for this to be as egoless of a, of a thing as possible. And so, , I want those who should hear it to hear it. But at the end of the day, having great recognition for it isn't isn't necessarily a, a motivating factor for me.
Jesse Butts:What sacrifices should listeners consider as they pursue something like this, where they balance full-time or nearly full-time work with the creative practice?
Jon Camp:Something has to give, ultimately if you're gonna, if you're gonna put a, a decent chunk of time into this. And, and so I think you might have to think, What are the hobbies that are essential? And what are those that are inessential? You know, for me, I, I, for a period, I was into like weightlifting, working out pretty rigorously. And I, I still run and I still do a moderate workout. But I, but I thought at the end of the day, you know, like getting jacked isn't really that important to me. You know, having, having tunes that, that hopefully stand some test of time, that, that is important to me. Putting, putting the time into what matters to me. In terms of work, I think you have to question upward mobility and, and how far do you wanna keep striving? And, and do you wanna, you know, do you wanna seek out positions that, that get you as high up the ladder as possible, but, but removed that, that precious time from you? And, and so for me, it's, I've, I've also kind of found this comfort zone right now, where, where I'm in a position that I think utilizes my talent. And, and I find it interesting and meaningful. But at the same time, I, I have this time after work to, to do music. So, so I think it's just kind of cutting that from your life that's that's not essential. And then also just balancing what's a good position for you work wise, that also allows you the time for your creative pursuits.
Jesse Butts:With letting go of weightlifting, I mean, is that something that you missed initially? Still do a little and you're just have come to accept that that's sacrifice you need to make? Or how have you felt about something like that?
Jon Camp:Yeah, things like that. I, you know, in, in my ideal world, I'd, I'd have the, the results that come from, from weightlifting. You know, I, I think it's ... I enjoyed that. But, but at the end of the day, that's not really super important to me. And, and, you know, even things like I played on a, on a, like a weekly soccer team and, and... I guess if it were really important to me, I, I would make time for it. But it's just... I think I've definitely come to peace with, These are the things that matter to me, you know. Putting, putting in a solid day of work, being useful to The Humane League, calling my parents every night and, and being a good son. Being a good partner to Sarah, my partner. And, and music. And, and then, you know, just staying in decent enough health to, to do all that. But, but yeah, I guess I've just kind of got it to the point of are the key things that matter to me in my life. And I'm gonna try to structure my day to day existence so that I can have these in my life and, and not really much more.
Jesse Butts:You did bring up something that I wanted to ask, which is about our partners, our important relationships to our lives. I feel like so many people, it, it often seems like, you know, there's some residual guilt, or maybe it stops people from doing these things because, Well, that's less time with my partner. And we're both working during the day. How do you navigate that? How do you make sure that you are providing that essential time for those relationships that matter most to you?
Jon Camp:Yeah, first, first and foremost, it's just as I build in time every day for my music, I, I build in time for my partner. So, so, you know, I, I work on music, let's say
8 to 9:15, if, if it's a, you know, a standard day. After that, Sarah and I have time at the end of the night to watch a documentary. It's, it's a nightly ritual. We, we both know that we're gonna have that time together. Fortunately, I have a partner who gets how important this is to me and, she, she appreciates that every night I have this passion that I go downstairs and work on. And, and fortunately she's tolerant of, of hearing me work on the same riff over and over until I've got it down. So, so fortunately, and, and she's also, you know, she's sows and she she's got her creative endeavors. So, so fortunately we've got that. And, and I think it, it makes for a healthier relationship to have these. To, to not just be around each other all time and, you know, to, to have something when we come back and spend time with each other to report on. Finding a partner who accepts your creative passions. And then just making sure you, you have time for, for your partner and, and that you prioritize your partner as well.
Jesse Butts:Have there been times where maybe work wasn't as, as satisfying or frustrating, you lean more into music? Or maybe there were times in the writing process where you're frustrated that you just can't figure out, you that riff or, or what have you, and you lean a little bit more into work? Or, or do you usually generally keep them pretty regimented or, or, or balanced?
Jon Camp:I'd say it still kind of fits into that schedule. But, but for my work, I do a lot of donor engagement. And so a lot of times I, I, every month or two, I have a, a tour that lasts maybe a week where I go to a city and I go, and I meet with supporters and maybe give presentations about the Humane League's work. And so during that time, I lean heavily into work where it's just like, I'm on the road for this week. And I wanna, you know, really maximize my travel time. And so, so it's pretty intense work hours. But then, you know, as I'm prepping for a album release, which I, which I am right now, I then have to, to have a, an accompanying tour. And so I'm going to be taking some time off work, two separate weeks in, in the coming few months where I just tour. And so when I'm, you know, traveling for, for music, I'm, I'm signed off of work and I'm not expected to check in. And, and I'm just leaning heavily into that. So, so, you know, as, as a whole, I, I fit time in every day for both work and music, but then there are certain times where, where I'm leaning heavily into just one based on the logistics of it.
Jesse Butts:Is touring enjoyable?
Jon Camp:It's uh, vastly enjoyable. I think of some of my greatest moments in, in my life and, and it's ... there, there's just a real rush of playing night after night and connecting with, a, an audience on a, on kind of a deep emotional level. And especially touring with a band can be fun. And it's sometimes tiring, but you know, both connecting with bandmates over a, a extended period and then also just playing night after night and just getting really tight with the music is, is satisfying. And just meet, meet lots of great people doing it. So, so yes, it's, it's, infinitely rewarding.
Jesse Butts:A large part of your early advocacy was, and this, this wasn't explicitly covered in the podcast, but was traveling across the country, leafleting at colleges, correct?
Jon Camp:Mm-hmm.
Jesse Butts:Was there and I, I, I know that you're not doing that anymore, was there something about enjoying, you know, seeing the country, meeting people where touring is like the new leafleting in a certain sense?
Jon Camp:Yeah. I, I would say in some ways that that's right. Yeah. I mean, uh, so, so just for a little context for, for about 10 years, I spent about half of each year traveling throughout the country for Vegan Outreach. And I do outreach on college campus, like leafleting college students, had me in, I think, 47 of the states and five Canadian provinces. Put about a total of 300,000 miles on my Corolla. And so, so yes, that, that was rewarding both in that, it was, it was lovely to see so much of North America, but also to, to connect with people on an issue that, that mattered to me. And, and I, yeah, I find that both with my touring for, for the Humane League now where I'll go to a city and, and meet with supporters, I get to see another part of the country. But yeah, also for, for touring for music, I'm in a car and going from city to city and, and, you know, getting in, getting to see a culture that I don't see on an everyday basis.
Jesse Butts:So one thing I have also been a little curious about, so you are a 100% instrumental musician, at least so far. I don't know what's on your, your new album. You know, maybe there's a little pop ditty that you lend your vocals to.
Jon Camp:The There's a countdown. I count down to a song. So my, my voice is on this one.
Jesse Butts:Oh, okay. But so as a 99.99% instrumental musician, one thing I I'm curious about is that, a large part of your life has been focused on social and political issues. Do you like having a creative pursuit that isn't ostensibly political or social when your life's work is that?
Jon Camp:That's a thoughtful question. I, I would say, Yes, that, that having this full-time advocacy work allows me the freedom with my music to, to then base it on whatever I, you know, whatever I want to express. I think for me, it's, it's in some ways just about effectiveness and, and I think with the work that, for example, the, the group I work with, the Humane League does, where we get corporations to, to ban some of the cruelest confinement practices, there's no song I could write that could do that. You know, my, my music as a whole reaches a, a finite audience. And I don't expect that any piece that I write is going to really move policy. And, and so I guess I focus my advocacy efforts as much as possible on creating tangible change. And then yes, that frees me up to, to make music that, that covers any to kind of the, the full human experience of, of, oh, I, this is a beautiful mountain and I wanna have a piece about this, or these are individuals in my life who have, who are moving me in. I wanna have a piece about that. And then, you know, also when I think of musicians who have had a big influence on me, maybe it's like, as you were mentioning, John Coltrane, I feel like concepts like compassion and humility in that were kind of imbued in, in Coltrane's music and, and influence my day to day life through that on, on more of an emotional level than, as like a political statement. And so, so I guess I am still trying to put my values into my music and to move people. But it's maybe a more of like a visceral emotional level. And I hope that through the music. There is a sense of kindness or, or joy. And, you know, I, I hope that getting at like more of the essence, as opposed to a, a specific policy or issue. You know, I do still have some very subtly political elements. There is a tune I wrote that came after the 2016 elections and, and kind of putting my feelings into that. I've gotta song called Goat's Revenge that, that, you know, has the, the, goat being the... not the victim and, and the, you know, the, the aggressor. But, but, as a whole, yes, I, I like that my advocacy gives me the freedom to, to cover any wide range of emotions or issues with my music.
Jesse Butts:So as we wrap this up, Jon, I'm are there any words of wisdom you'd like to share that maybe we haven't talked about? Any books or resources about, you know, that helped you figure things out as you took music more seriously and, and balanced that career and that music?
Jon Camp:I think the, the main recommendation is just for folks who have a creative pursuit to, to really engage in it. And, and that, that it's so easy to talk ourselves out of it. Once you start doing it, it's just so easy to, to continue to do it. So if this is something that matters to you, I'd say just, just find some practical way to make it happen. It might be, I'm going to devote 30 minutes each day to this. And, and to do it and to see how that feels. Again, I think not being too hard on yourself about the results. To have modest expectations for how it resonates with the general public. When I put an album out in the world, you know, it's my hope that more than fewer people hear it, but ultimately at the end of the day, if it's something that I'm happy with and, and some people are touched by it. That's that's good enough for me. In terms of resources, there wasn't any real resource that brought me to this, but I did recently read a piece by a, a musician I like named Jeffrey Silverstein, which was, think it was, How to be a Musician with a Day Job. And it, and it kind of got into the, the practical aspects of this and, and it hit home. Some of the, some key things I've been practicing, but then also gave me some new insights. So I don't know for, for musicians at least, or, or any artist that might be something worth exploring.
Jesse Butts:Yeah, I'll, I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Speaking of links in the show notes, uh, tell us about this new album coming out and where people can find your music.
Jon Camp:Ah, thanks. It's through a, a label called Centripetal Force, and it's a self-titled album. And that will be coming out on cassette and CD, probably around the beginning of April. And it'll probably be up on their Bandcamp page for pre-order probably in, in two or three weeks. And I think it's a, a nice album of melodic tunes, that I, that I'm happy with, and yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm excited for that. And then I'll also be touring through the South, a bit through the Midwest, a bit through the Northeast in the coming three or so months. And, and I'll have all those dates on my Bandcamp page, which is joncamp.bandcamp.com, or maybe it's bandcamp.joncamp.com. One of those two.
Jesse Butts:And, and just for, for listeners context, we're recording this in late February. So some of those dates may have passed by by the time this is published. All right. So, Jon, thank you so much for joining us. T his was really, really a treat. And one thing I, I do wanna say before we wrap this up is that, Jon, one of the things that I really remember from when I was young is you were one of the very few people in my life, kind of introducing me to obscure musicians or mentioning books that you were reading or, you know, challenging and engaging with my political beliefs that I had then. And, to everyone out there who, who is, you know, really into learning and liberal arts, like , you can have such an impact on somebody who's young with, with your knowledge and with your, with your passions. Please share those. You know, you might be the one that they really look back on fondly, which is certainly my case with you. So, so thank you again for that when I was a, a child.
Jon Camp:That's touching to hear. And, and I really enjoyed those conversations. And, and even though you had political views that maybe you don't share now, you know, even that challenged me and, and I appreciated hearing a different perspective. Yeah, I, I look back very fondly of those times with you as a, as a student. And I think that's one of the reasons we've stayed in touch, you know, 20 plus years later.
Jesse Butts:Well, Jon, thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it.
Jon Camp:Thank you, Jesse.