The Crackin' Backs Podcast

Breaking the silence: Mike Marotta's Crusade Against First Responder Suicide

• Dr. Terry Weyman and Dr. Spencer Baron

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Join us for an enlightening conversation on the "Crackin Backs" podcast with Mike Marotta, a former Airforce and San Antonio PD officer turned advocate for suicide prevention amongst first responders. 

After losing 6 colleagues to suicide in six months, Marotta decided to take his battle against the harrowing culture of silence to a larger stage. Mike opens up about the tough culture and stereotypes that envelop these unsung heroes, leading to an alarming number of suicides in the field.

 He dives deep into the topic of 'SUICIDE CONTAGION,' a phenomenon that raises suicide risk among those left behind. We discuss the staggering reality of averaging over 200+ suicides in law enforcement and first responders annually. 

Marotta shares his insights from Dr. Brene Brown’s TED Talk about the strength in “shame and vulnerability”, and how it transformed his perspective on life. He shares the paramount importance of fostering bonds between new recruits and seasoned officers, crucial to building mental resilience. 

Tune in for this eye-opening episode about shifting from blame to learning, cultivating better home relationships, and restoring the police force's public image. Learn from Marotta's journey and his mantra, “you can’t pour from an empty cup.” 

It's time to listen, learn and start vital conversations about mental health in law enforcement on this episode of Crackin Backs.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Lance Weyman:

Welcome to another episode of The cracking backs. Today we're honored to have Mike Marotta as our guest from serving his country in the Air Force to enforcing the law on our streets. And now as a fervent advocate with first help, Mike has truly seen it all. His kaleidoscope of experiences informs his passion to support first responders and has gifted him a unique insight into the system he claims is fundamentally flawed. We'll be diving into the systemic issues as well as tackling the raw and personal stories of friends, he's lost the mental health battle. And on a lighter note, Michael share his secrets to managing marriage amidst the chaos of life in high pressure fields. This is going to be a hard hitting and lightning episode, you won't want to miss Selena. And as we crack open a new understanding of the first responders world.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

My Welcome to the show where we're totally happy to have you. And just to kind of set the stage you have a incredibly diverse background, you served in the US Air Force, then you went to law enforcement, and now you're working with a company called firsthealth. How do these interests in these experiences erased? Why? And how did they feel your passion for supporting our fellow first responders?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you having me on the show. First of all, yeah, you know, so when I was young, it was tough man, you know, young dad, young husband. And so I did with a lot of young folks do and I say, You know what, I'm going to join the military. And I was super fortunate to have served as a CE five a loadmaster. For folks who don't know in your audience, that is the largest airframe in the United States military inventory, we did a lot of really heavy logistics moving. Something unique that I did also, when I was in, because President Bush was in office, our unit was tasked with hauling his limos and his agents. So that was just kind of kind of unique, that I get to haul around the limos from time to time and be part of that. And then, because I was in the Reserves, and I spent my first few years on active duty, because of OEF, and Hawaii, if Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. I got spent a lot of time flying, they kind of deactivated order started drying up. And I said, I need a job. And you know, like so many military folks. I said, let me let me get into law enforcement. And interesting. I'm a second generation law enforcement officer. I'll be just perfectly transparent. The first generation of law enforcement and my family is a reason I was like, I'm never going to be a cop. And then it'll be in a car. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I'm not gonna be That's the guy like, look, me and my dad are, we're good now. But it was it was rough. And I just didn't want to be part of the business, the culture, and then I ended up doing it. I don't know. I'm sure there's some Freudian thing, y'all can deconstruct there. Yeah. And, and then then I served for 16 years as a law enforcement officer in a large department here in south Texas. And, you know, I left after 16 years of doing that a lot of people go, why, at 16 years, we do leave, right? Because for so many of us in as responders and military, it's like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick this out until I get some kind of reward or pension for having served. And for me, you know, the short answer is the values just no longer aligned with my life and how I wanted to live. So I left the business just shy of retirement, everybody still gives me crap about it. You didn't want to get retirement, I said, No, man. So somebody gives me a reason beyond the retirement check of why I should stay here. Anyways, we could talk about that later. And then I was just super fortunate, a national nonprofit called firsthealth, founded by Karen Solomon. And the organization really is best known for a national nationwide database that we have of suicides, first responders. And so they call and say, Hey, we're budgeting for this position. What do you think? And I win? What do I think I got no job. Let's do it. And so, yeah, so it's been it's been a year that I've been about a year that I've been doing that and now and I don't want to speak to too far ahead, but I'm working on on another job offer that I got out in Virginia. And so I'm traveling to Virginia at the end of next week for a few days to to meet with the with the staff out there. So I'm, I'm really excited about that potential opportunity.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Yeah, you mentioned a little bit about the system and you went I have a connection with a person who took their life. And in the law enforcement world and suicide, and you and I have talked on the phone, and you mentioned a couple of times that the system is broken as it currently exists. And, you know, I kind of want to engage this audience that, you know, we think of our first responders, cops, that's firemen, as these heroes and these, and yet they go home and their mental mess. And and so can you talk about the system issues that are preventing overseas buyers from receiving the help they need? And what needs to change from your insight perspective?

Mike Marotta:

Man, that's a Yeah, that's a big question. You know, because what with that question comes the C word. And the C word is culture. And when you say culture that scares people, because I think it feels a little bit of an, like an attack for people. And and it's not. This is just the way that culture has always been, like, you know, there's this expectation of perfection among first responders and among the military, like, you gotta get it right all the time. People's lives depend on it, the country's freedom depends on it. There's no way you can be broken, you're the one who's supposed to be fixing it. So and that's, we know, that is absolutely not the truth. And so I, you know, I challenge folks in leadership, and also the boots on the ground, like, do not police do not serve do not lead from a position of brokenness, because all you're going to do is perpetuate the culture. We're trying to get we're trying to get on the other side of that, like, how can we how do we intend to grow beyond that culture, the culture of silence and fear and stigma and shame. And this idea that of like perfectionism, like, if I don't have it, right, there's there must be something wrong with me. And there's this fear of judgment, and that people are gonna say, Well, you know, Mike, man, he said, he can't handle that call, I don't want to, I don't want to make calls with that guy. When we should be going, that's the guy I absolutely want to make calls with, because he's absolutely he's in touch with, how he's feeling and the discomfort that comes with seeing these things day in and day out. So so like, I know, I'm giving you a really long answer here. But to me know how you get through that how you break through it is you as leadership's within your agencies, because there's something a lot of people don't know. There's about 18,000, law enforcement agencies, and I'm very kind of Lot law enforcement, law enforcement centric, just because I served in law enforcement. There's about 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States, the average size is 10 to 12. Officers, that is the average size of a police department in the United States of America, about a dozen officers. So you think about that, you know, if I got one, one or two folks, and they say, Man, I'm, I'm struggling, I mean, you got a sizable portion of your department, that is mentally ill. And I'm just saying that like, and so what, like big deal, let's have the conversation, let's identify who the people are, that are willing to have a conversation like let's break, let's break the barriers, let's break the cultural norms, and have have these really difficult conversations. So to me, you want to change you got as as leadership, you got to identify who the folks are within your organizations, who people go to, because these organizations are full of informal leaders, people that the other men and women trust, identify who they are, leverage their skills, build them up, give them training, and figure out how you can put them in a position to to succeed, and to change the trajectory of their department. Honestly.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Mike, you know, we've all experienced people who've had, you know, friends or peers that have lost their lives or taking their lives, I should say, and, you know, can you share how some of these personal experiences have shaped your mission with first help and and some of your views on mental health amongst first responders?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, absolutely. So I left sapd And I probably shouldn't Well, I left San Antonio PD. Last year, about March, April, after I left there was a six month period where they had six suicides in a very short period of Yeah, that's a very short period of time. That was six in six months. And then if you went back about a year from that point, it was eight because there was a to the year before One was a supervisor. So, like, for me, here, I was following this very, like, formative time in my life and 2019 and doing the work. You know, there was things that happen within the agency, and I was like, I gotta go. And then I left. And this happened to friends of mine, you know, Doc, like we talked about on the phone, like friends we have in common. I mean, you're in California I'm in, I'm in Texas, like, this is how impactful this is. So I lost friends. I lost a really good friend of mine, who sat in this house in this living room, on the couch that's right here in front of me, and promised me Mike, I'm not I'm not mad at you. And he's, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to take my life. I gave my gun to a family, like, we're good. And then three days later, you know, he took his own life, and not in a traditional way that you might imagine, but but he did. And I remember thinking, and I gave everything that I had resources, I set appointments, I did, I supported, and this still happen, and that just told me, I can't fight 27 years of bad culture that was that had so deeply rooted in this man. So that's how it affected me. And it's still man, I gotta, I gotta live with those things and think about these guys, and continue to live my life and do my job and take opportunities that will continue to honor them. Because that's, for me, that's what it's all about.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Wow. said, Is there anything you do differently today? Because of those experiences? I mean, you're obviously learning more and more each time, but I also think it's kind of interesting. I wonder what goes on in that particular culture in that department? Or in that area of the world or country? Or state that there's been, there have been so many suicides? You know? Yeah,

Mike Marotta:

um, yeah, I, you know, I don't want to get into bad mouthing, the leadership, per se, it's broken. But clearly, when you see that many suicides, that closely together, there's something going on within the agency. And there also is a phenomenon called suicide contagion, which I'm sure you all are familiar with. And just this is, you know, when there's someone who dies by suicide in a agency, school, family, a place of business, you gotta be very vigilant that because the risks high for everybody, you gotta be vigilant that there may be another suicide right on the heels of that one. Because it's this idea of like, well, that was used as an option. That was a good friend of mine. So maybe this is also an option for me. And then also to answer your question, Doc, No, there's not anything I would do different. I loved him wholeheartedly and supported him. And I've come to the realization that you're not going to stop everybody, you there's no amount of love support and hope you can infuse into some, some people are just, that's the decision they've made. And that's what they're going to do. But, you know, I wouldn't change anything I would love and support him exactly the same way short of telling you're gonna live with me for the next month. I mean, I don't know. Beyond that, what what I could have done. But I still wonder, and I'm not looking for when I look at the suicide numbers since 2016. I averaged it out from 2016 to 2022. When you break apart, first responder, suicides, you look at our database, because we do a really good job of capturing those metrics. They're averaging about 200 201 suicides per year among first responders since 2016. To 2022. That's, that's an incredibly large number. I'm not looking for zero, there are people that say we want zero suicides. And I said, Man, I don't want to see zero, but I would love to see it a little bit less. That's my goal. Like, can we just reduce this just a little bit? And, you know, I'm trying to figure that I know, there's a lot of really amazing people in the United States that are all trying to work together to figure out how to how to change the direction of, of this bad trend, you know?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

So, it's long as you can walk away saying you did your best, you know, that's all that's important, you know, and it sounds like you've done I mean, What more can you do at some point when somebody's got it in their? In their?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, so yeah, 100%

Dr. Spencer Baron:

You know, you fall I understand you follow individuals like Brene Brown and Tim Tebow, how these influencers in particular shaped your perspective on resilience? vulnerability.

Mike Marotta:

Man, let me let me tell you I am a, I'm a huge fan of I love them both Dr. Brene. Brown has a special place in my heart. Because that was the first time I remember I was going through. So in 2019, my wife and I's 19 year marriage really hit rock bottom. I got it was like, Okay, I was stripped completely bare emotionally, and left with what what direction do I go from right here right now? Because in 20, December 13, of 2019. I knew very clearly like, Mike, you're the problem. Mike, you're literally the problem. Everything going on, man. You're the problem. And I remember I heard this brilliant quote, and I'm not smart enough to come up with it. But it says you can blame or you can learn, but you can't do both. And up to that point. Up to that point, I had been blaming everybody and everything and circumstances and people and past history and experiences. And anyway, so I'm like, Man, I'm grabbing, like all the Who Can I listen to who can pour into me. And then I heard Brene Brown's TED Talk that she did several years ago that's had millions of views. And as a first time I ever heard anybody talk about shame and vulnerability, and the power that comes with that, and how, you know, it can unlock unlock you. And I said, You know what, I think the answer here is, I need to share, I need to share these things. Because again, understanding the culture of silence within law enforcement and first responders and military, I said, That's not the answer, I'm going to share this with with, I'm going to be vulnerable, and I'm going to be open and then it's going to be people's choice on how they digest it and what they take from it. And yeah, and so what I found was sharing these things and what I had been through and what I had done and how I had hurt people and taking full accountability every single week in front of a room of 70 officers because I was doing teaching at the time, and I leverage the teaching opportunity to share myself. That's where it all started. These officers were coming forward and going met, Hey, man, I'm going through something and they were waiting after class to have a discussion about it. And I said, this is there's a need here. I don't know what it is. But we're going to do something here. And then that's what I started trying to define what wellness officer was in it. Anyways to answer your question, because I know I like to I'm a sage from the stage. I love to pontificate. But to answer your question. Brene Brown for me was just is the first time I ever heard somebody frame shame and vulnerability the way she did. And I went, That's it, man. That's, and you know, I would I still listen to her TED Talks. I read her books. She's an excellent storyteller, which makes her just so incredibly powerful because it's the connectedness to and relatability of that she has. So that's how she's influenced me. And then Tim Tebow. I mean, ya know, anybody who can get on their knees and give thanks, you know, to the man above, in front of millions of people, and just unabashedly own his spirituality, like, how can you not love that? Because that's something that I had to do as well as, Hey, God, what's up, man? I'm tearing everybody up over here. Can you help me out? And he brought me to my knees. I mean, my relationship with God was was the first thing I had to get right. And then everything else fell in line. Yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

That's awesome. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Sometimes we we always look at the people at the end, we're trying to help them when it's almost you almost have to go to the beginning and in time, hope that like you said, that suicide rate dropped from Yeah, if we're focusing on 20 This coming out the end of the pipe, we kind of almost have to go to the front and finish the front and then only maybe 10 come out the end of the pipe in 10 years from now. What advice would you give someone who's brand new in law enforcement who's just coming in and to help them maintain their mental health while facing all challenges?

Mike Marotta:

You know, it's interesting That's a good question because there's this big. There's a lot of discussion around retention and recruitment within law enforcement. And I hear a lot of let me back up a little bit when we look at the numbers. And we really kind of deconstruct the numbers because our organization takes about 37 metric points, if I remember correctly. And you know, we look at years of service, we look at male female, is there a service connection, and something that we have found consistently, throughout the numbers is that it's about 15 years 15 to 16 years of service on the job, where the suicides are happening. So what does that tell me? That tells me it's not an old guy problem. And that also tells me it's not a young guy problem, because what I hear a lot is a lot of blame. I hear the old veterans saying, Man, these young guys, this generation, these snowflakes, and millennials, and then I hear the young guys saying, Man, these these old salty dudes, they don't want to talk to us, you know? And it's like, okay, wait a second, how can we cross cross the bridge here? Because like it or not, the future of law enforcement is with a younger generation. So I think the answer to the question is, Have the conversation as soon as possible and as often and consistently as possible. My recommendation for for, you know, the incoming law enforcement officers, incoming firefighters is as quickly as you can find who in the organization is doing it, right? And then see how they're modeling the behavior? And are they showing up the way you want to show up in 15 or 20 years, but also be able to identify the people that are not living a whole, you know, a whole life, and you want to talk to them as well, who get ideas, but I would say as quickly as possible, identify who that is seek for mental health resources. And don't be afraid to use them. Because according to Dr. Kevin Gilmartin, in his book, emotional survival for law enforcement, Dr. Gilmartin says in the first five years, you're at a greatly increased risk of developing depression and anxiety. And looking at these men and women coming into the profession. And there were so we're vetted. So well, you've got to go through the MMPI. And you've got to go through polygraphs. And you've got to go through oral boards, you got to go through interviews with people to get that just to say, you got the job. You are you're a guy, you're a girl. And we take that person, we send them to an academy, we get them physically fit. We empower them with all the knowledge and the book smarts and tactics, and how to drive fast under all the things and we take that same person, and five years down the road, they're a shell of themselves, they've gained weight, they're completely isolated, depressed, angry. And you go, what happened? Well, what happened is, we're not putting any focus, I mean, so much training and emphasis is on pulling the gun out of the holster when statistically speaking, not that you won't, but the chances are very low, that you're going to that's ever going to happen. And you're going to have to use your weapon in a felony encounter. Now, the risk is increased right now, I totally understand that. I'm not minimizing it. But we know that this right here, every single day is being pulled out of the holster, and it's being used. So why are we training it? Why are we training? Why are we why are we putting funds aside and, and putting people in classes and having conversations and we as an organization, our flagship program, responder readiness, what we seek to do, because it is readiness, we're we're looking to get on the we call it left a vein, if you're familiar with this concept, developed by Patrick van Horn, they wrote a book called left of bang, and it's really a violence mitigation tactic and the combat hunters in the United States Marine Corps, looking at the unconventional styles of OEF in Hawaii, if developed this violence, mitigate late started saying, we need to start looking at behaviors before the thing happens. Because law enforcement, military, very reactive forces, like here's the bang, here's the thing. Now we're going to have now we're going to respond and that's it's a reactive approach the problem with reactive approaches, when I look at it from the mental health perspective after the suicide after the officer involved shooting after the divorce after the crisis, when I'm on the right side of the vein. Now everything that I do is going to seem like a half hearted effort. And you're going to hear a lot of men and women within the departments go. They don't care. It's just a checkbox men. They really don't give shit about us. So you got to get on the left side of it, and you got to create the conversation as early as possible, be as open as possible. Look, here's what may or may not happen, be ready for it. Some folks get in these career fields and do really well go 2530 years, and they're resilient. And they got great coping skills. Not everybody is like that, though. And for me, I was like, we always have to plan for the hate this term, but the lowest common denominator, I gotta plan for the possibility of the man or woman who cannot handle this job. I can't discard them. I trained them, I paid for the training, I've invested in them. I gotta keep them, I want to keep them. They're part of this system. They belong here. And how can I how can I? How can I create acceptance? And how can I create all these like values and cultivate that through these early conversations? And so to answer your question, I you know, the conversation needs to be had day one, day 10, day 90, you know, year, you need to have it consistently, it needs to be something that again, you know, your guns part of the job, you know, your police cars, part of the job, the handcuffs, the defensive tactics, you also need to cultivate resiliency, they need to cultivate conversations and vulnerability and let folks know it's okay to not be okay.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

I love this stuff. And you know, how I feel about law enforcement. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring up a little hot topic. And I have a feeling that it's gonna be a hot topic with you. But we heard a couple of years ago, a term called defund the police. And how can we be fun when when we're average tenants will officers, and we have these issues that require money and thought? As a layperson, I don't understand that term. It was thrown around by law people from somebody in the process. And can you talk about that?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, I know, people said defund the police. And it was a super, like, kind of kitschy term, right, let's defund the police. And then I think people saw really quickly what that actually looked like, because there were cities, even in Texas, that had legitimately had some defunding like Austin right up the road. And I think they saw the crime rates spike, and they saw the violent crime rates go up. And I think really quickly, people, people pulled back on that. Now, here, I'm going to say something also very unpopular. I didn't completely disagree with some people on the defund the police side, I'm very open minded, and I'm willing to look at all different perspectives. And there were a handful of people that said, we need to de fund these programs, and we need to fund the mental health programs. And I'm that I was like, I can get behind that. You know, like, okay, cool. I don't need to do more flashlight training. So let's, let's cut some of the fat off of these kinds of trainings like, and let's bring in some of the mental health stuff. But the whole idea of like, let's defund the police across the board, I thought it was ridiculous. I think 2023 If you look around the United States and just turn on the six o'clock news, clearly, that narrative is still playing out in cities across America. And the other part of it, I don't think that small town America was saying defund the police. I think this was a large, sprawling urban departments with you know, we're, this is where you were hearing it, but I think you went out and to the small 10 to 12 person agencies, they're saying no, no, no, those committees are saying we need every single one of these men and women. I just think it was a is ridiculous. And you're still seeing it play out to me in 2023. But yeah, I was like, Cool. Well, we there's some things that I believe I think we could get in and, and probably Let's reduce the budget a little bit. Let's take this money. Now. Let's put it into the mental health of our officers because I believe it was Robert Kennedy said, it's, you know, in the 70s. And I'm but I got the quote, I know I'm getting the timeframe wrong. But he said Every community has the police force they deserve. And I thought, Man that that is so interesting. Your your community and the community's culture is going to be reflective of the police force that is serving in the community believes we need to have the best officers that most you know highly trained, we need to compensate them fairly. Then you're going to see that support through the actions of the police officers. You're going to see good community policing, you're going to see Ah to officers, you're gonna see officers out in the communities taking care of the communities doing that, like small things. So I remember when I heard that somebody told me that quote, and I went, that's absolutely true. If your community is burning buildings down, and you know, picketing, and they have the signs, then, you know, like, get rid of the police then expect the police force to be reflective of the mindset. And don't be surprised when it feels like things are falling apart. Right. That's my thought on that.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Perfect, yeah. And another thing that I think people forget about, and this is stuff I know, you're passionate I brought up a little earlier is the unsung heroes of police force. And that's marriages, you know, that's the families in behind. And I know you've, you know, because there's a lot of intensity that is brought to the home and sometimes that spouse or partner is not is not equipped for that. And I'm gonna throw myself under the bus a little bit, I'm gonna make my partner extremely happy. But when I was doing a little background on a, I talked to a mutual friend, and and he's, I got him with some things. I can ask Mike, and he's like, Oh, you have to ask him about Leo and the marriages. And what I do, I go, what does an astrological sign have anything to do with being a marriage? I go, I know, as a Leo, you know, astrologically we're, we're all about, you know, being leaders, and we're loyal and all that kind of stuff. I go, I can't understand what being a Leo and a marriage has anything to do with it. You know, you dumbass. Leo stands for law enforcement officer. From California, where we live in? Yeah. And you know what? You're the only California. So? Yeah, so I had heard myself. Give our buddy Cory a little because he decided to be done mass for law enforcement. So, with that being said, I know you teach a marriage counseling class. Can you just talk about that? Because people don't think about bringing home stretch?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, that first that's funny. I was like, man, was he talking about? I'm a Scorpio, man. You know, anyways, yeah. But I kind of felt like I knew we were going over there. I was like, I think. But yeah, I mean, you know, if you if you look at relationships, like you want to I, you want to have better officers have create better relationships. Again, going back to Dr. Kevin Gilmartin, he says, Cool. In the first five years, you're going to greatly increase risk of developing depression and anxiety. But guess what else you're also doing in your first five years, you're getting married, you're buying houses, you're like, I got a career now. Now I can afford to do some of these things. Were that's another layer to this is like we're not equipping our men and women to be in relationship with their spouses. We're not equipping the spouses, like, Hey, here's some of the things you're going to see. And you may be able to recognize, my wife and I do teach a marriage class. We were taught by a marital psychologist out in Colorado. We wanted to focus in on first responders. We were he was told us, Hey, y'all go ahead and do your thing. Because it wasn't you know, he had a specific focus. And so we kind of took some of the things we've learned, most importantly, our experiences. And we developed our own class, and we just started inviting responders. And every time we put this class out, you know, we have 1020 couples in the room that are just like, give us give us some tell us what to do. Tell us how to how to be married and how to be in relationship. The divorce rates are. And I'm see I've just seen this through various websites and stuff like upwards of 80% for first time marriages in law enforcement. Wow. I mean, the divorce rate for for marriages in America is 50%. And now you're adding the stress of the job. And so yeah, it makes sense that it would be upwards of 80%. But I don't another cultural nuanced is, oh, you're going to be divorced two or three times and it's kind of an accepted part of the Have the culture and I said, Man, look what? Why are why do we really get married? Well, I think without education, people don't realize that marriage actually refines and makes you better. It sees it, you know, highlights your blind spots makes you overall more well rounded human being. But we don't teach that, you know, if your marriage is struggling, and you're having an affair, and you're up to no good, guess what you're going to do, you're going to seek out other responders, other people who are living the same life. And then there's zero accountability across the board. Nobody's going, Hey, Mike, what are you doing, man, you think it's a good idea to go see your girlfriend, when your wife and kids are at home waiting for you? I mean, that's an incredibly uncomfortable conversation to have. And that's a conversation that I absolutely, like, let's have it, let's have a discussion about it. Let's be as open, honest and transparent. And when I bring my spouse in the room, then it's like, oh, wow, she's part of this too. And that's how you to me, that's what you got to you got to bring the spouses in, you got to invite them to the substation, you got to immerse them in the culture of law enforcement from day one. This is not just about your responder, it's about the families too. And so you want your responders to be supported and to feel loved, and accepted at home? How do you do that, and bring to remove the shroud of secrecy. Because I remember, my first men, probably 10 years in law enforcement, my wife had zero clue about what I was doing at work. She wasn't there, she didn't know what roll call look like. She didn't know what the inside of the substation looked like the locker room, nothing. She had zero context of my job, other than I was a cop. And I'm like, You need to bring the spouses in, we need to teach classes bring them together. This is not like let's train. Because if you put a bunch of responders in a room, you hand them a bunch of great materials and handouts, already know what's going to happen as soon as they walk out the door. If there's a trash can, there, that's where the stuff is going to. And you got to you got your spouse in there, guess what the spouse is gonna say, I go pick that get that. I want to read that when I get home. Right? And then they're gonna say, Well, look what it says here, you know, and they're gonna hold your feet to the fire. And that's what that's what we need to do. We need to bring spouses into this as well and support the families support the children. And I The other thing, Doc, that drives me nuts, as I hear so many responders when I do training, I go, how many of you want your your children to be cops, firefighters, you know what they all say? Hell, no, no way. Man, I don't want him to do this job. My challenge to our responders is Hell, yes, I want you to do this job, who better you're vetted, I raised you, you got yours. The same values I possess, you also possess, like, who better to take fill my shoes than you. i This used to be a generational profession. I would love to get back there. Where, you know, the men and women currently serving have their children and then their children. But I, you know, I have a 12 year old and he's told me I want to be a police officer. I don't discourage him. I don't discourage him. But what I promised myself when I was still serving was, I wanted to hand him a department better than when I got it. So that when he gets on, I know he's got the support. And I know that his wife and his children are going to be taken care of and he's going to be supported all the way through his career. His wife is chill, everybody. It needs to be a holistic approach. And I know,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Mike, we're going to switch gears and see one of our favorite sections of our program called the rapid fire questions. There's five of them. Now, this is going to be a real challenge for you not to come up with the answer, but to come up with the little answer that we're looking forward to hear. Are you prepared for this? Right I think

Mike Marotta:

I think somewhat Yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

All right, here we go. Rapid fire. Question number one is, you run a marriage retreat. What is one piece of advice? You feel everyone married should follow immediately?

Mike Marotta:

Oh my god, one piece of marriage advice. Commit, commit to covenantal language with your spouse. This is a you're in it for the you're in it for the long haul.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Commit to what was the covenant

Mike Marotta:

language, promissory language that is quit Using the word divorce as an option, I'm in it. I'm with you. We're going to we're going to see this through if you're not willing to quit your career, you shouldn't be willing to quit your marriage. Why are you so willing to serve for 25 years? I need the same level of commitment and promise to your to your relationship.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

That was powerful. All right. Question number two. If there's one thing that you could change in today's society, what would it be?

Mike Marotta:

Our unwillingness to be honest with one another.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Good. Good. Question number three. What is your favorite movie and why?

Mike Marotta:

Oh, man, what's my favorite movie? My favorite movie and why? Oh, my

Dr. Spencer Baron:

gosh.

Mike Marotta:

I'm looking at my DVDs. Yes, I still have DVDs. You know, I would say a movie that kind of consistently. Makes me makes me like really emotionally as a river runs through it. I just absolutely love that movie. I love the story of the of the brothers living in Montana. And I love Oh, my gosh, what is his name? The father. He's a preacher, but I just I just love the interaction in the family dynamic. That movie every time I'm watching it, I love that movie.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Great. It's about the relationships. I like that. Absolutely. Well, well, if you thought that if you thought the favorite movie question was challenging. How about this one? Craziest thing that you've done? Naked

Mike Marotta:

crazy, craziest thing that I have done naked? Wow. Is my wife's not gonna watch this. No, I'm kidding. Ah. Oh my goodness. Okay. I guess I went to when I was in the in the Air Force, and anybody who's been in the Air Force and has gone through sere school. Probably understands, the craziest thing I did was use the restroom. On the side or on the side of a mountain. on a on a little on a little rock just to have a little bit. Just a little bit of alone time and peace. I purposely kind of when like, hid and I was it was really unsafe. But it was the most beautiful one of the most beautiful views that ever had. I was completely alone. But yeah, I also had zero I had no pants on. And I just wanted, I remember thinking I want to just feel I wanted to feel the earth. I want some connected. Yeah. I don't know. that sticks out in my mind.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

That like better answers I've heard in a while. Yeah. Well, you're gonna enjoy question number five. The last one we've heard from veterans of the Marines and army to say that their air force or the country club of the military, what would your response to them be?

Mike Marotta:

There right? Hey, let me let me let me tell you a story. Let me tell you, let me tell you a quick little story. No one was like, man, we we were I'll tell you being a loadmaster on the seat. And on that airframe. We were out at the bird eight hours before the rest of the crew load. It was a hard job. It did have some really tremendous benefits. But let me tell you, so we stayed. We flew into Hickam Air Force base because coming from the Pacific missions, you would stop it in Hickam Hawaii, that was the first tee five base so any kind of like, major maintenance issues, that's that's where you stop. So we would always break down in Hawaii. And it wasn't that that was purposeful. It's just if you had things that broke in Guam, they couldn't fix it. You had to limp it back to Hickam. So there was one unfortunate time where we had to actually stay in base housing on base. And I'll never forget it. I was, you know, three strikes Senior Airman. And I was up we were all along the top of the of the call that do Q the visiting officers quarters, and we walked in to our rooms and everybody had their own room and from down the hall. I hear this is bullshit. Get your shit. And I walked out and I went, Oh, it was the aircraft commander down at the end of the hall. And he says everybody gets your bags, and he called the crew get in the crew bus. They called the crew bus came picked us up and I was like now what is what is going on? The air conditioner wasn't turned on for us. We're out of here. Then we went And they got I'm not even making this up. They got they got. So they got the government rate approval like off base. And we went and stayed on debt in Downtown Honolulu. Yeah. On the strip that I laugh at that story because I'll never forget it. I was like, Oh my God, you know this guy. Yeah. And we had big cruise on the sea five it was, you know, doesn't 1314 people. And we all and the air conditioner wasn't on. I was like, further. What is

Dr. Spencer Baron:

better than a country club? Yeah, well,

Mike Marotta:

it was my time in the military. I love serving I used to love going down range and picking these men and women up these operators and different units. And I was just like, I My job was so awesome. Being able to fly on that airframe and tour people around and meet all the different folks and I met some amazing people in my time in the military. Yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

That's awesome. I'll throw this out really quick. Did you ever know a pilot by the name of who flew that plane? Yes. She flew George Bush's times. Name? Henry fair cloth. Okay. All right. I just threw that as one of my best friends. And he flew. He finally retired as a colonel, but he flew the big, big, big boys. And he flew a lot of time in the middle of the presidential thing that to Germany. Oh, wow.

Mike Marotta:

So he probably flew? Yeah, he probably flew Air Force One.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Air Force, he flew all the C 117. To see what their age whatever. He flew all his Jeeps in his car, and all that. He was like that. Yeah. So he was he was and he also split, it flew for Special Forces. Yeah. So I said no, yeah,

Mike Marotta:

very, very similar thing that we did. So anyway, I don't know him.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Yeah, that's why I throw that. Anyway, talk a little bit about this going back, talk a little bit about this first help and what they do.

Mike Marotta:

So firsthealth help being at LP is an acronym for honor, educate, lead and prevent what the organization is really best known for is their suicide database. I mean, we're known nationally, if people want to see like, what are the numbers look like? What are the trends, they go to organization, that organization was founded by Karen Solomon in 2016. Shout out Karen Solomon, I absolutely love her. But a big part of what the organization does is supporting the families post suicide, because so many organizations don't know what to do with the families, like how do we support them, or they may over promised support and say things like, we're always going to be here, we're never going to leave your site. And by no fault of their own, I mean, you know, support falls off, or people are uncomfortable with it organization's commitment to the families, is to continue to be that consistent support, and to surround them with other folks who have been through similar situations so that they always feel like they're supported, and they belong, and that they're part of a very unique group of folks. And we continue to honor the lives of the responders, because really, that's what it's all about is honoring the lives live not the manner in which they died, necessarily. A lot of people have a lot of problem with suicide in that manner of death. And I'm like, Look, before they came to this, they were fathers and husbands, and they were great police officers, they were members of the military, they did all these amazing things, we, that's where we need the space in which we need to be education, the E is through responder readiness, that is our flagship course, that really like I said, it seeks to get on the left side of the crisis and have open honest discussion and dialogue. We leave them with resilience skills, we call it the range of resilience, five, easy to use resilience, everyday resilience skills, we give them results oriented communication, which is just a framework for being able to talk because we suck at talking to one another. We're like no good at it. And you know, because we don't know how to facilitate the conversation. So we say, Hey, here's here's a, here's an idea of how you might be able to do that. We're developing a Family Readiness Program. We have a supervisory readiness program, because we do believe in also creating ready leaders and we teach like the well being theory, Dr. Martin Seligman, and the perma model, and we kind of walked them through creating like positive relationships and being able to engage their subordinates but more importantly, might be able to engage themselves as leaders so that they're leading from the right place. And then the L lead. We want to try and be as involved as possible at the national state and local levels in meaningful, sustainable legislation that seeks to help and hen remove the stigma. You know, because Karen Solomon, for example, was directly involved in getting the public safety officer bill passed. earlier. I believe it was earlier. No, it was last year. She was directly involved with those conversations. There's state to state, there's not continuity. And I would love to see some continuity in legislation. But that's our job like we're advocates, you all are advocates, everybody can petition their legislatures, hey, this is what we need to do to support these folks. That's, you know, our elected officials are put in office for that reason. So we need to leverage we need to leverage them, you know, and bring them to our site because they have the power ultimately. And then the P prevention is our database. How do we prove there's a problem? Well, you got to have numbers. I mean, that's across the board in any job. If people say, well, there's this problem, they say, prove it to me, show me. Well, cool. Here's, here's the numbers, right? We keep metrics on everything and law enforcement, that crime rate, we constantly have statistics, we're very statistically driven. But here's the suicides, we there's a problem. And also the sewage. Just as a side note, the law enforcement suicide data collection, by the FBI is another place, they're also capturing suicide data as well for law enforcement. But I will tell you, last year, for example, they captured about 44 suicides for law enforcement, our organization captured 175. So we your first responders in your audience, if they know there was a suicide within their organization, go to our go to our website, put it on there, somebody from the organization will contact them and vet it and get additional information, but also go to the FBI is suicide data collection, because when the FBI goes in empowered with numbers, guess who listens, the the legislature's the federal government. Right now they're preparing their report that shows you know, 44 officers died by suicide last year, there are some people that might say, doesn't seem like there's a problem. And we know that there absolutely is. So I recommend anybody in your audience, like go to our website, first help.org, forward, slash the numbers, take a look, it's interactive, you can kind of play around with the numbers. And if you know somebody in your agency has died by suicide, also go to the FBIs data collection and put it in there as well, because it's critically important that we raise as much awareness as possible. So that's a little bit about first help and what we do and what they're all about incredible organization.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Thanks, Mike. The, we're gonna wrap up with this last question that has a couple of parts to it. And it's, you know, we understand we understand you pretty much described yourself as just a regular guy, but man, there ain't nothing regular about what you do and what you've experienced and what your your motivation is. And we really appreciate that. Can you please tell us, what is it that drives you? And and how do you maintain that emotional that resilience to bounce back and be as charming and motivating as you are? And, you know, yeah, and and that will close with?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, well, thank you. You know, I never consider myself a charming person. This guy, you know, I tell everybody, Doc, this guy every day is a choice. This guy, this verse, people, some people call me happy mind or a man Mike always seems and I said, Man, this guy is a choice. I gotta get up every day and choose to be this guy. How do I do that? Well, I do meditative practices in the morning, I spend time with God in the morning, I would never ask anybody to do something that I'm unwilling to do myself. Sometimes I have to spend time with my wife and own some of the things that I screwed up because I don't always get it. Right. Those are some of the ways I got to take care of myself and work good in good out. Like, the only way I'm going to be good to anybody is if I practice what I preach, and I'm willing to take my own advice, and sit down every single day and have discussions with me. Because there's some days where I wake up and I feel angry, or I feel inadequate, or I feel outside of myself, and I feel like man, I don't belong here. Why am I doing what I'm doing and why would people ever want to listen to what I'm saying? When those things happen? I have to I had to go back a little bit and spend a little bit of time with you know, Little Mike, adolescent Mike teenage my young adult might and have to spend time here I mean, that guy put my arm around him and saying, Hey, man, look at all you've done, you're 4042 your people love you. You love life and have to spend a little time healing that guy. But those are some of the ways that I have to keep myself healthy, in order to be able to support the population and the people that I love, you know, you can't, can't pour from an empty cup is the old saying, and so I'm constantly just trying to fill myself with with things that make me a better human being.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Oh, I appreciate that. We appreciate that the audience, you know that that's what gives them the juice to move on to the next moment, the next day, especially when they're afflicted with challenges. Yes, thank you for sharing that. And I definitely felt that moment when you share about what you feel personally, even the negative stuff, connection, because, you know, we can't wake up every day feeling like a rock star. And, you know, sometimes we have those days and it's just a matter of spending 90% or 95% of your life in a positive mindset. Yeah, please, you know, some of that negative shit. Thank you.

Mike Marotta:

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a pleasure being with you all today. Truly. Thanks. My

Dr. Terry Weyman:

pleasure is all ours. You have a blessed you know to be safe.

Lance Weyman:

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed and make sure you follow our Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.