When Kenneth Watkins' narrative of a father's resolve to reclaim his son emerges, it becomes clear that the intersection of family and law holds stories that could change the way we see the world around us. In our latest podcast, we're not just recounting events; we're dissecting the emotional and legal battles that parents like Kenneth face. Our conversation delves into the essence of paternity rights, the power of trust, and the unrelenting demands of parenthood. From the depths of toddler meltdowns to the high tides of teenage defiance, we offer solace and strategies to navigate these challenges.
Chantale Suttle drops by, sharing her professional journey that led to the creation of a law firm dedicated to representing fathers. Her insights reveal a legal landscape that has often overlooked the needs of single dads, exposing gaps that our conversation seeks to bridge. We also examine the role mediation plays in resolving family disputes, while dissecting child support myths and emphasizing the value of education and understanding. Plus, we touch on the foresight provided by prenuptial agreements and the importance of relationship coaching and cooling-off periods when disputes arise.
Our episode wraps up with by highlighting the heavy responsibility of making decisions that shape young lives, the intricacies of establishing paternity, and the concept of 'timesharing' to encourage joint parenting. Adding to this rich tapestry of knowledge is a candid discussion on the transformative power of self-reflection post-divorce, a nod to lifelong learning, and a heartfelt recognition of Chantal Suttle and the DADvocacy Law Firm's commendable work in advocating for fathers' rights in Miami-Dade County.
DADvocacy Law Firm:
dadvocacy.com
Kenneth Watkins' Story:
nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/02/nyc-acs-child-custody-foster-care.html
Follow us!
Instagram: instagram.com/hangryparentpodcast
When Kenneth Watkins' narrative of a father's resolve to reclaim his son emerges, it becomes clear that the intersection of family and law holds stories that could change the way we see the world around us. In our latest podcast, we're not just recounting events; we're dissecting the emotional and legal battles that parents like Kenneth face. Our conversation delves into the essence of paternity rights, the power of trust, and the unrelenting demands of parenthood. From the depths of toddler meltdowns to the high tides of teenage defiance, we offer solace and strategies to navigate these challenges.
Chantale Suttle drops by, sharing her professional journey that led to the creation of a law firm dedicated to representing fathers. Her insights reveal a legal landscape that has often overlooked the needs of single dads, exposing gaps that our conversation seeks to bridge. We also examine the role mediation plays in resolving family disputes, while dissecting child support myths and emphasizing the value of education and understanding. Plus, we touch on the foresight provided by prenuptial agreements and the importance of relationship coaching and cooling-off periods when disputes arise.
Our episode wraps up with by highlighting the heavy responsibility of making decisions that shape young lives, the intricacies of establishing paternity, and the concept of 'timesharing' to encourage joint parenting. Adding to this rich tapestry of knowledge is a candid discussion on the transformative power of self-reflection post-divorce, a nod to lifelong learning, and a heartfelt recognition of Chantal Suttle and the DADvocacy Law Firm's commendable work in advocating for fathers' rights in Miami-Dade County.
DADvocacy Law Firm:
dadvocacy.com
Kenneth Watkins' Story:
nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/02/nyc-acs-child-custody-foster-care.html
Follow us!
Instagram: instagram.com/hangryparentpodcast
In the moments after Kenny's birth, kenneth Watkins, kenny's father, experienced a joy unlike any other, but little did he know that the bliss of parenthood would soon be replaced by a battle with the Administration for Children's Services of New York City, also known as ACS. They're tasked with promoting the safety and well-being of New York City's children and families by providing child welfare, juvenile justice, and early care and education services. In March 2017, a routine welfare check by the ACS turned into a life-altering event for Kenneth and his newborn son. The ACS caseworkers arrived at the Bronx apartment and, despite Watkins having no history of violence or wrongdoing, they deemed Kenny to be in imminent danger due to the complicated history of his mother. You see, kenneth had no history of violence or wrongdoing. They deemed Kenny to be in imminent danger due to the complicated history of his mother. You see, kenneth had no history of violence or mental illness. In contrast, baby Kenny's mother had a troubled history of abusive relationships and had nine previous children, all of whom either ended up in foster care or were adopted.
Speaker 1:In the backdrop of a system with vast powers to separate families, a system where one in five negligent petitions resulted in the removal of a child from their parents, baby Kenny's case took a unique turn, falling into the subset of removals that occur before any court petition is even filed, an emergency measure meant for cases of immediate danger. Watkins faced a challenging scenario at the courthouse. The ACS targeted only the mother, treating her as the defendant Due to her existing marriage to someone else. Kenneth wasn't automatically recognized as baby Kenny's father. To have official standing in the case, he needed to prove his paternity while Kenny was placed in foster care.
Speaker 1:After two long years, kenneth ultimately succeeded in regaining custody of his son. After a prolonged and emotionally taxing legal battle with the ACS, kenneth won. In December 2019, he was finally reunited with his son at the Children's Aid Society in Harlem and embarked on the journey to rebuild their lives together. Baby Kenny's mother also continues to be involved in his life, despite the history of his mother and the circumstances that led to Baby Kenny's mother also continues to be involved in his life. Despite the history of his mother and the circumstances that led to Baby Kenny's removal, kenneth acknowledges the significance of maintaining a connection between Kenny and his biological mother. Parenthood can leave you craving knowledge, hungry for answers to the many questions that arise on our journey.
Speaker 2:A whole lot of sacrificing so that you know in the end, hopefully it all pays off.
Speaker 1:But what happens when we're left feeling angry because we just can't find the insights we need?
Speaker 2:So when I say mitigate, it's all about keeping them grounded. It's all about always making sure that they understand. This is not owed to you. Whether it's navigating the terrible twos and toddler temper tantrums or battling through teenage rebellion, the hunger for parenting techniques can quickly turn to frustration when answers seem difficult to find.
Speaker 1:There has to be a trust between that 16-year-old and that parent, and if there's no trust, then a conversation has to be had In the midst of this chaos. It's no wonder that we often find ourselves with grumbling stomachs and cravings that just won't quit.
Speaker 2:But here we embrace the idea that food is not just sustenance but a source of comfort and connection in the journey of parenthood.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Hangry Parent Podcast. We satisfy not only our hunger for delicious food, but also our craving for parental guidance, so grab a snack, settle in and join us as we navigate the challenges of parenting. One bite at a time.
Speaker 3:My original first job right out of law school is I was an assistant state attorney in the child support enforcement division, primarily representing moms enforcing child support in Dade County courts.
Speaker 1:Meet Chantel Settle, founder of the Davocacy Law Firm based out of Miami-Dade County in Florida. So they focus on fathers who are dealing with family law matters like child custody, divorce, visitation, you know things like that. As you just heard, her previous focus was on representing moms. So what changed?
Speaker 3:So I did go to law school with kind of a social work bent on my career goals. I really just felt that my career would take me in the family realm, working with children, with parents. I was a social work major, ended up a poli-sci double major and really felt like everything that made me upset, everything that made me passionate, was always centered around family policies, regulations and funding of families that you know for good or for bad. So I did have my first job at the State Attorney's Office Child Support Enforcement Office, which was basically following my mentor, Priscilla Quinones, who had the same counterpart position in Tallahassee, and I took her class in college. So I was there. I was primarily representing moms.
Speaker 3:About two years into the job I went out on my own. I was in private practice for probably about another seven years and then I had the opportunity to take the bench as a magistrate judge in the family law courtroom, specifically the child support enforcement courtroom. And then I had the opportunity to take the bench as a magistrate judge in the family law courtroom, specifically the child support enforcement courtroom, and it was there that I kind of saw the other, the middle side, and the more neutral and balanced view of the struggles of both single moms and single dads and as I sat in that job, I saw dads struggling, dads without affordable representation, dads having a couple of months bad circumstance whether it was illness and arrest, immigration issues, whatever it was that transpired. For the course of just a couple months I got laid off and as soon as I was laid off I was probably incorporated, getting ready to start advocacy within a few months after, because the hole was gaping. There was a free service for single moms and there was nothing even slightly affordable for dads. And the cases I never thought were difficult.
Speaker 3:They're not a maritime, they're not a plane crash on a cruise ship with six kinds of international law. The statutes are extremely tight. There's not that many. It's very clean. It's very clear. The need to have thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer to get you through that maze seem impossible for so many dads.
Speaker 3:So I really honed in on finding a way to represent them, maintain a good relationship with the Child Support Enforcement Office, trying to really maintain a place where you know my dad can help here. My dad wants to see the kids, my dad wants to be involved, my dad wants to be seen as more than just a wallet. And mom isn't just lacking money, she's also lacking time. She's also lacking a second set of eyes on a sprained ankle. She's also, you know, wanting a second opinion as to whether or not to get the child tested for gifted or tested for a learning disability. She wants and needs that help. Dad wants to give it. The system is not entirely helping their co-parenting, but I thought I could bring something at a very affordable cost that could help dads, and even the dads that I couldn't help, even the dads that were outside of my jurisdiction or they could not afford me. They are benefited by my very, very chunky website.
Speaker 1:So I went to our website, davocacycom, and she was right. There was a ton of useful information under the DIY tool shed area of the site. So I'm looking at it right now and I see helpful guides, advice on how to do things that you really don't need a lawyer for, child support myths so many things. So if you're curious, I feel like you should check out her website, which I posted in the description of this episode.
Speaker 3:The best example of that is the reinstatement of the driver's license. A lot of dads will lose their driver's license, get it suspended for non-payment of support and mom's going. Wait, I need him to pick up the kids. He does that on Wednesdays and Fridays. I need him to have his license. Mom doesn't necessarily start that train. The child support office does. We're like you know you can do it by yourself. It's not hard. They won't buy over a child support. Just you know, give them a call, go down there, bring this document, try and get some help over there on your own.
Speaker 3:We know that we're doing something to educate dads, that we don't want them to see that child support office as an impenetrable wall that they can't work and cooperate with. So we offer lots of resources. We offer back doors to get into that office. You know we have links on our website that link back over to child support. We just introduced our passport reinstatement program. We have instructions on how to do that for free. People still want to hire us because sometimes they get intimidated or it's a heavy emotional burden and they're really happy to have us insulate them from it. But we just didn't want to play Wizard of Oz with the mechanism and the procedures. So we've put them out there and I hope that when I retire that I will have helped more dads that I didn't represent even than I did from those resources that are out there. That really kind of help you, kind of sew your life back together.
Speaker 1:Can you speak on a little bit of like the mediation process? Because I don't think. I think there's a perception too that it's either one way or the other way, but I know I've seen that you've been pointed as a mediator in certain cases of just like what common ground can we find, which I always find is very important when it comes to being a parent. It's not about his way or her way. It's maybe a common ground because, believe it or not, we all have the same goal we want to make sure that the child's living a great life and that both parents are involved. But is that something you still do as far as mediation?
Speaker 3:Well, I am a mediator. I typically don't mediate cases with advocacy. I have been in that neutral position with two dads, so I have been asked to mediate maybe a divorce with two dads or a custody throwdown with two dads, and I'm also a certified parenting coordinator and I've worked with two dads. But wearing the advocacy label on a mom versus dad situation, I don't think that's going to sit well with mom. Moms do find their way to our website and we have a little, a little place for them that says we can talk to you, but you probably don't want us. And here's a phone number for the Florida Bar and here's a number for the child support office in case you wandered here on accident. We don't want to make it harder for them to get the help they need, but we're really dad oriented. Having said that, I am a mediator because I hugely believe in mediation and I don't believe mediation is just that day, that appointment, that environment. I think you should have a mediation mindset on at all times.
Speaker 3:As an attorney and as a litigant, I think moms and dads must always keep one eye on creative, calm, compromising solutions, so that the child who watches the fray between them and there's the child who never sees that argument. They're at school, they have no idea what's being texted back and forth, but they still feel it. They still got a stressed, tired, grumpy parent who dealt with the other co-parent at some point in the day and the child feels that exhaustion, that frustration. So we don't just, you know, encourage people to keep it out of the actual eyes and ears of the child, just keep it out of your life altogether is going to be better for your child. So we want a compromising, you know, middle ground, respectful mindset, always. We we try on our website to dispel a lot of myths.
Speaker 3:A lot of people think that mom is doing this. It's her idea to do X, y and Z, sometimes for public benefits, for working with the child support office. She's forced. We've made a really, really tried hard to get dads educated about that so that they can stop pointing a finger and being angry that the mom individually did this to them for some vindictive purpose. She usually did not. It's rare that she did. I can't. I won't say that there's not vindictiveness and revenge. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be encouraged to go there first, see if there's something else going on, and we want that to be our attitude, our mindset, because we are in a case. Sometimes they drag, but we are in a case for a limited period of time and after we're done and after the other lawyer is done and the judge is gone, these people have to still co-parent together, and it's not till 18. It's for always.
Speaker 1:For always.
Speaker 3:yes, For always.
Speaker 1:yes, I like that. I stumbled upon some more things that you are a part of here, and that was just prenups here. But what can you talk about? Just prenups? How does that intertwine with advocacy at all? And what can you talk about as far as, like, the importance of having a prenup and a postnuptial agreement?
Speaker 3:Thanks. So advocacy is my litigation company and advocacy was born 13 years ago. I am 52 years old, so with an eye towards my retirement, I started just prenups, which actually was in development in my mind, and I bought the domain and did that kind of thing. At the same time that I developed advocacy, I felt that my community kind of was in a crisis. Advocacy was a serious need in the community. Getting dads some help, getting some resources out to dads, was really really important. And at the same time we were also at advocacy involved with other companies and organizations that were promoting dads in different ways. And at the same time we were also at Davide to see involved with other companies and organizations that were promoting dads in different ways. And so there was kind of a movement and the small community of Miami was telling me dads were in crisis and then the bigger community of the United States was telling me that dads are poorly regarded. So I wanted to really be involved in the change of that conversation and being a woman and a mom was really important for the words to come from me.
Speaker 3:Just prenups is kind of my retirement baby. It is born of my desire to mediate prenups and do something different with prenups. Prenups are no longer that Anna Nicole Smith situation. Most prenups today are a very unified couple who really fear the legal system more than they fear each other. They know that their finances and their plans, their goals, can be kind of taken hostage by their respective attorneys and by their divorce judge and they can be paralyzed with regard to business decisions, investments, relocations, all those things.
Speaker 3:So with just prenups I actually wanted to help cure the problem I was making money from creating. So I thought that if I came in with a new kind of prenup that I could bring something really novel to the table. So my prenup is a little different. It has all the engine and the wheels, what a separation happens, what a separation is, who moves out all those things. And then, if that separation period doesn't result in reconciliation, they can call for marriage. Relationship coaching as well as marriage counseling are built into my prenups. Some cool down period a little bit of a 30 days, 90 days, everyone think before we jump, thing that I've built into my preups. Some cool down period, a little bit of a 30 days, 90 days, everyone think before we jump thing that I've built into my prenups because Florida, strangely, is one of five states that doesn't recognize separation.
Speaker 3:You're either married or you're filed which makes people move way, way faster than they're emotionally ready. So they have to file to stop their spouse's debts from going to them. They have to file to stop so that their spouse's business decisions they're not beholden to. So with that knee jerk, we get a very fast decision on how to do this. Who's your lawyer? What's the strategy? Is there a way out? Is there a reconciliation? Is this marriage really over?
Speaker 3:And I feel that Florida, just basically, you know the way our law is written they just want to set the world afire with this rush to get a lawyer. So I thought the prenups could be written in a way that would get a couple who are in love trusting each other now to make decisions for when they don't. And I ask them I think let's set your boundaries On the worst thing you can imagine, and then we can be more generous from there and the worst thing you can imagine Is different for every person, but from there, what are your boundaries? And then what does the other partner say? Their response would be so they actually are in mediation sessions with me as a mediator, to create their own agreement that I draft for them. But it is their agreement, and so I wanted to bring something better there too.
Speaker 3:Florida doesn't do a great job with this no separation thing. It really makes people rush, and the data that we're getting from the mental health community is that many divorces are regretted, maybe not six months out, but a year out, five years out. People are asked do you regret your divorce? And a lot of people say, yeah, I wish I was still with my ex, because I've not felt as good about my life myself, my future, as I did with my ex. And they also say, no, I'm still glad I'm divorced, but I wish I hadn't gone about it the way it happened.
Speaker 1:And so I really would like for fewer people to feel that way after their divorce and maybe just prenups can help them with a slower, calmer process with lots of decisions made ahead of time it's a little different there, so but that, no, I think that's, that's awesome and it comes from a good place and I think that's, you know, part of the reason why I wanted to talk to you. It's not just to try to break, kind of this again the stereotypes, that because prenups against stereotypes. Oh, you think this is not going to work. I was like, no, it's not, that's not going to work, I just want to. There's oh, I like to look at plan a, plan B, plan C, always nuts, you know, to a detriment of mine sometimes.
Speaker 1:But but I just always was going to be prepared.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's exactly that. The prenup is written in a plan A, we call for four, six, eight weeks of marriage counseling. Plan B we move out and we move out for 90 days and we go our separate ways 30, 60, 90, whatever 90 days with a mediated plan for moving the children around, if there are any. And then plan C we couldn't make it work. Here's the divorce. Here's what it looks like. Here's how we determine income. Here's how we determine. You know those things. The prenup calls for mediation to be done instead of court first. So there's lots of things in there that it is exactly what you said A plan A, a plan B and sadly, the worst plan is the plan C. At least make it calmer, less expensive. If you can't cure the marriage, at least don't go broke on the process out the door. That's never good for anybody.
Speaker 1:No, not at all. Okay. So then I have a segment here I'm calling ALA, which is ask a lawyer anything. It's just some questions that I gathered from others and I just wanted to throw you away and see if you can kind of help them out here. Okay, sure, I'm speaking from Florida only, but yes, and I just wanted to throw you away and see if you can kind of help them out here.
Speaker 3:OK, sure, so I'm from Florida only, but yes, yes, very important.
Speaker 1:Each state is a little different here, right? So first question I have in the meantime is it true that if a child 14 or older, a child has the right to choose a custodial parent, depending on the state? And I was looking into this a little further myself and I saw that Florida is not a state that does not have the ability for a child to choose in a way, but you can again educate me on that because you're more of the expert than I am. But basically the question would be what goes into a decision where parents don't agree and a judge would factor the child's opinion into the equation for states that do support the right to choose?
Speaker 3:child's opinion into the equation for states that do support the right to choose. Well, I think all states have the wishes of the child as a consideration. The problem is a mechanical one how does the judge hear from the child? So that conversation between the child and the judge is usually blocked by protocol. No Florida judge is going to just let a child come on by and have a conversation. Usually that is an in-camera and recorded conversation, in-camera being alone, with the judge recorded. And it is very rare that a judge will do it without some kind of counselor, guardian therapist saying this child can handle that kind of pressure. So to ask a child who they want to live with is loaded with how each parent may have been influencing that child and we want to make sure that those types of influences carrots and sticks are not involved in that child's process to arrive at that place. Sometimes when we send in that professional to garner the position of the child, we get very surprising information.
Speaker 3:I represented a dad many years ago who had a heck of a time with his daughter who had become a teenager and she would cry and go on and on that. She didn't want to go to her father's house and he was devastated. He didn't know what was going on. And it turns out that she had really rough time with her menstrual cycle and didn't want to discuss it with dad and only felt comfortable with mom when that was happening. And I asked him is she always refusing to go to your house? And he said no, it's weird. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. He hadn't really noticed the pattern, but that's what was going on. Something as simple as menstruation was very resolvable. Dad got more educated and mom and dad agreed that on those weekends she felt more comfortable at mom's house. She stayed at mom's.
Speaker 3:We've had children, say I've had a child that wanted to stay at one house more than the other because the ride to school, the carpool from dad's house, was more fun than the carpool from mom's house. Well, that doesn't have anything to do with either parent. So we look at those things we love to hear when a child is motivated by other things other than loving one parent more than the other. They tend to not. They just, in different phases of their lives, need one parent more than the other or are very resistant to one parent more than the other.
Speaker 3:I have lots and lots and lots of cases where I've had teenage boys suddenly want to go live with dad and devastated moms who are like this is the thanks I get. I've been doing the heavier, the heavier load of this. You know, in the traditional you know, time sharing model, we had a mom with a greater percentage of time and now her 14 year old wants to go live with dad and she's saying what the heck is this? And she is possibly not understanding the dynamic of that boy's puberty affecting him. What he's open about with mom and he feels more open with dad sometimes at that point.
Speaker 3:So there's a lot of external things that go on with children. Teen years are harder than ever. So I actually back Florida's position of not necessarily letting a child choose but letting their choice be influential in a judge's decision. As long as we understand how that process is occurring for the child, is it a well thought out process? And sometimes it's things that are very silly to you and I what friends are in the carpool, but it's important to them. We always have to forget that things seem really different when you're that age than when you're our age.
Speaker 1:OK. So next question how do you obtain custody if a parent becomes MIA? Do you need to have the other parent around to file a petition for custody? Also, if a father's name is not on a birth certificate? This may be two questions. Maybe I'll start with the first one. How do you just obtain custody if a parent becomes missing in action? There's nowhere really to be found.
Speaker 3:Is there a default custody that goes into place, or Is there a default custody that goes into place or that's a really big job where the private detective trying to find that parent for service of process is probably the biggest job. And it is harder to completely hide today with the Internet than it was when I started this career in the 90s, where people just went off. They could just disappear, go off the grid. They were working a job somewhere in another county in Florida even, and they could just disappear. That is harder to do today because we do require a service of process to establish one parent as the majority time-sharing parent. However, usually a parent who's hiding isn't necessarily hiding from mom or child support. They usually are hiding from a bigger problem. It could be criminal, it could be IRS, something like that. And very often we can get their very cooperative signature to give up their time sharing, to give up their shared parental responsibility position, because we agree to just kind of leave them in hiding where they are, and that occurs a lot. So someone completely hiding is nearly impossible today.
Speaker 3:There is a process but it's not difficult and defaults happen.
Speaker 3:We default cases for someone's failure to participate in the process, failure to file an answer, failure to show up for court. Judges just hate to do that because in other areas of law where you can quote win on a technicality, we never in Florida courts want to win anything for a child on a technicality. We want as many voices, as many eyes and as many opinions as possible to talk to the judge about that child before a decision is made just based on missing a deadline or not getting a document in that child's too important to just let something that simple decide so much their lives. So judges want us to work really hard to find someone to get them to the courthouse. If they can't come down there in person, get them on the phone, get them on the Zoom, move the hearing. Move the hearing into a correctional facility, get them out of a correctional facility. Do a Zoom overseas. If there's a deportation issue that judges want to hear from everyone they can. Because it's too important to decide a child's future on simple technical, procedural failures on one side.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So then, kind of that follow-up, which is again a fucking different question altogether. If a father's name is not on a birth certificate, let's say, does that relinquish his ability to seek any type of custody at that time?
Speaker 3:In Florida. No, we allow dads to come forward at any point in minority of the child in Florida because we think better late than never is truly what judges say behind closed doors. Judges say better late than never all the time they feel a child who would be foreclosed on a technicality from ever having a father is a bad way to set up a child for life. So even if dad had no interest or was addicted or maybe was married for the first seven, eight years of the child's life, 15 years of the child's life, our law always opens that door to allow a dad to come forward and try and form a relationship with a child.
Speaker 3:Now, it's not going to be the same relationship or the same, probably the legal timesharing arrangement, had he been there from the beginning, but in the eyes of the child only. We are trying to, you know, eliminate that, that permanent abandonment feeling of a child we want. Well, you didn't have dad for seven years. You have dad now. Let's see where we can go from here. Our mental health professionals, who are always watching what we are doing in the family courts, are telling us that late is better than never in terms of long-term mental health issues related to parental abandonment.
Speaker 1:There's a few more questions here. If you don't mind, I have one when it comes to custody in general, A surprising amount of people that have questions about the meaning of certain names or labels of custody, like joint custody and sole custody. What would you say is the meaning of joint custody? And I guess, since we're on a subject, are you able to go over briefly you know the different types of custody options out there.
Speaker 3:So Florida has a unique position which I actually also back. I love this part. I don't love everything about Florida, but this I love. So in Florida we actually do not have the term custody as a permitted term or visitation as a permitted term, because we have timesharing. And with timesharing, that means that you don't visit your child, you share time with your child and your position is no different than your co-parent Under any kind of ownership or custodial verbiage. We certainly have a notion that one parent is greater than the other and we eliminated all of that in 2010 in Florida. So in Florida we have timesharing and sometimes we have a parent who is the majority time sharing parent and the parent who has the balance of the time sharing. But typically, even if there's an imbalance in the amount of time that is spent with the child, there is still complete balance in decision making for the child and we consider those the major decisions religion, major medical, educational, major disciplines. So timeout wouldn't be on the list, but juvenile detention center. Clearly you have to tell your co-parent that that happened with your child. So we have that balance in the decision-making because, again, the judges want the more people who love and have an opinion as to what should be going on with the child, the better.
Speaker 3:Other states have different words to use when they're doing the same thing as Florida, so some states call our equal time sharing or 50-50 time sharing joint custody and they call that in other states. I believe Georgia may use that label. The critical thing is is when people are out there and the internet gives us so much and it's very hard to avoid is really make sure you're reading material from your state that uses the right language for your state, because the words are vastly different from state to state. Even though if you put your eyeballs on all these households and all these families, what divorced parents are probably doing is the same in Georgia and California and New York and Florida. What we call it on paper is vastly different.
Speaker 1:And then one of the last questions I have here who would claim a child with a, I guess, a time sharing or 50-50 kind of joint custody? What goes into who can kind of claim the child at that time tax wise?
Speaker 3:It drives the judges crazy. So shockingly, there is no state court judge that really can tell a parent whether they can claim a child or not, because only the IRS can say that. So basically we have to get the parents to kind of agree and their pressure to agree. So typically, what will happen if the parents have equal time with the child? The IRS doesn't know what to do and the IRS really wants those parents to go odds and evens. Alternation of the child. If they have two children, oldest with one parent, youngest with the other parent. When the oldest one emancipates, rotate the younger one. When they have three, one one rotate the youngest one. If there's four, two and two. So that's what the? That the true claimant of a child for the dependency exemption is the parent who has spent the most nights with the child of the year. So that is why sometimes we have time sharing arrangements in Florida that are 51-49. So to the child they feel equally cared for. But in order to achieve a certain place with the IRS, we do a 51-49% where we throw the child over the line two days a month, two days a year. So that is frequently how it's done. This is a very IRS driven decision and I tell people you just look back over the year and if you can prove you had the child more than the other parent and you both claim the child, the IRS is going to dock. Can prove you had the child more than the other parent and you both claim the child, the IRS is going to dock both of you and make both of you say what the heck is going on and then that's your proof. So you have your school records, you have your daycare logs, you have, you know, a text between the two of you. Hey, I'm going to claim them next year, you can claim next year.
Speaker 3:What happens very often is people end up using that dependency exemption as currency for something else and they're just living their lives. And mom has four bald tires and she's like listen, I can't wait till I get the refund If you'll pay my tires. Those problems were amplified during the pandemic with those additional benefits, but it is. It is really about the number of nights. That is what is the driving factor for the IRS and our state court judges are bound to the IRS position. Because you know supremacy clause, it's the federal government, I guess, to decide that Because you know supremacy clause, it's the federal government that gets to decide that.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Okay, well, just one final question here, since I have someone just with your experience over two, I would say now almost what we would say three, almost three decades of kind of legal experience here. What's one tip that you can share just for that single parent or even newly divorced parent that you can feel would kind of push them past hopefully just a temporary dark time that they may be experiencing right now? Any like maybe one tip that you could share to kind of help them out through this time? And I know it could be a really general question, because, like dark period, what does that really mean?
Speaker 3:But anything that you've learned, that you're like could possibly assist them in any way. Well, short of mental health help, which is sometimes out of reach both in terms of time and money, one of the things is I really encourage my clients to do is they'll take the year that they're in litigation and they will think 2021 sucked, and I'm like, whoa, let's not brush the whole year with a dark, gray paint of misery. There were some bright spots in 2021. So what I encourage my clients to do is journal, and everyone's intimidated by that. They think you have to buy this big spiral notebook and fill in paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs. I was like just do five stars one to five stars each day. Do you have a five star day? Do you have a three star day? Do you have a one star day each day? Do you have a five-star day?
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 3:have a three-star day, do you have a one-star day? And then go back and look at that journal and see you had more five-star days than you probably thought you did. And things are you're having more and more three-star days and then you're going to have more and more four-star days. And if there was something that made it a five-star day because you had, you went to a party with a neighbor or somebody at work really complimented you know one of your tasks or something, maybe jot down why, why it was a five-star day If it was a one-star day and you were dealing with your ex, it gives you perspective.
Speaker 3:It gives you perspective that you're not dealing with your ex every day, that when you do deal with your ex it isn't a one-star every time. Sometimes it's a three, sometimes it's a four, sometimes it's a two. And then the other thing that I tell people is do not think that because you are separated, divorced or no longer with your co-parent, that all the problems you had while you were together and all those dynamics and those speech patterns and annoying sarcasms and digs, they're not going away. You're bringing those right over the line. So people keep thinking that they're going to get away from their ex and they will no longer be annoyed with snide comments, they will no longer have to deal with their ex being a constant procrastinator.
Speaker 3:Oh, you still got it all. You still have all of that to work with with your ex when you're a co-parent. And that's a reality check to realize that there's pieces of this that are not going to get better. You're just going to get better at working around it. And it does get better, even for people who regret their divorces, still embrace the peace of their life and say but I learned a lot about myself in these three years apart. That I can't say enough about taking a long look at yourself in the mirror and doing some real work on yourself. And journaling is kind of the first step to get you there. And journaling doesn't have to be a big, arduous task, it can just be stars in a little spiral.
Speaker 1:A huge thanks to Chantel Settle, founder of the Davincy Law Firm, based out of Miami-Dade County in Florida. They focus on helping fathers who are dealing with family law matters, including paternity, child custody, visitation, divorce and child support. If you live in South Florida and are experiencing any of these issues, consider reaching out to them at Davagancycom. Link will be in the description of this episode. This has been the Hangry Parent Podcast.