How To Be Inclusive in the Workplace with Suswati Basu

Episode 016

Suswati Basu is a multilingual disabled intelligence expert, journalist, mental health books show podcast host, and award-winning activist.

Suswati has written for the Guardian, Huffington Post, and the F-Word blogs, and has worked for various media outlets such as the BBC, Channel 4 News, and ITV News.

Winner of the Emma Humphries Memorial Prize in 2007, also shortlisted for the Guardian Mary Stott Prize in the same year, and longlisted for the Guardian International Development Journalism Award. She has worked in China, India, and the UK and currently writes on a freelance basis. 

As a survivor and thriver from trauma, living with both mental health and physical disabilities, she began the How To Be... podcast looking at helping mental wellbeing through reading and interviewing authors. 

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to the everyday determinator podcast with your host, Okafor founder of the determinator collective we want to help you get off that hamster wheel of life and turn you into an everyday the Terminator by sharing stories for Americans who have overcome varying challenges in life and careers and by reviewing and signposting you to helpful resources to start you on the journey to achieving your goals. For more information on the determinator collective, please visit www dot Anne okafor.co. UK thanks for listening determinator.

Anne Okafor: 0:50

Hello, and welcome to the everyday determinator podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking with Tricia T pursued, she she is a multilingual, senior domain expert, writer, journalist, producer and activist residing in London. She has worked for The Guardian and Huffington Post, and has worked for various media outlets, including the BBC and Channel Four. She's also a host of how to be podcast, which is a podcast about discovering what makes us human. And as a self reflection on a hot horn journey of improvement. She also examines and reviews, tips and guides to see if they help and how they can help. She's also a current board member of wheels for wellbeing, which is a leading disability cycling charity, which is devoted to enabling activity, campaigning and advocating for cycling and active transport. Hi, shooty. Hello, how are you? Great to have you with us today. Thank you for joining us.

Suswati Basu: 1:49

Thank you. Thank you.

Anne Okafor: 1:51

So I want to start off as a fellow women in STEM, hot topic and lots of people talking about it, do stuff about it. I'm really interested in your experiences of women in STEM, I know you're in the sort of tech space. I'm interested in your career path today. Now I know some of your work is of a confidential nature and you're unable to sort of delve in. But I'm wondering if you can maybe just give us an insight into your career journey. You know, I know you've obviously switched from journalism as well, which is, you know, another big career. So some insight into how that all happened.

Suswati Basu: 2:21

But yeah, no, definitely. Thanks, Sam, for that, that introduction as well, I really appreciate it. And yeah, so basically, I geared up for a life in journalism for most of the time, like I had basically worked in various news outlets and writing for newspapers from a very young age, it was always sort of my dream to work in the journalism field. So you know, I started off small actually worked have my first job, you will know all about this, which is autotrader, which is obviously very a male, very male dominated magazine. So I was working as my sort of my first journalism job in autotrader, which obviously a very big shock to the system as an 18 year old in that field. And but then I kind of slowly started, like different areas while going into music journalism, which was a bit more kind of varied. And then once I got into a proper newsroom, I saw there is a bit of a mix. But you know, again, you know, I was a woman of colour, which is obviously still very small minority in the newsroom. But also the fact that as a woman, again, there's not that many senior roles for women, apart from perhaps being in front of the screen. Yeah, so that was always a tricky sort of path to sort of Forge for myself, especially knowing that there weren't that many massive sort of areas for me to go to. And you know, it was so strange. So I was at ITV for many years, and then ITV News, and then move to Channel Four News. And basically, my old boss from ITV News decided, Hey, do you want to join this new company, which is in the text sphere? And I was like, No, I want to try something new after like, five years in this job. So I went into sort of the tech sphere thinking it would be newsy. And very quickly, it morphed into something very different worlds just working more into sort of intelligence led is the intelligence field, which is incredibly interesting. But I started in 2015, which even then was even then was not that many women in the field. And so in the London office, it was just me and three other people. It just in the London office, and it was I was the only girl. So that's how we started. And yeah, so it is a quite a big transition from Yeah, from a big journalism kind of newsroom to a tech startup. You know, and being the only woman in that field, but it was the language languages that really helped me sort of be in that field and do quite well there

Anne Okafor: 5:11

yet. No, I mean, I understand you are multilingual, I think you have proficiency, at least at some level in our own six different languages. Is that correct?

Suswati Basu: 5:19

Yeah. 556 I can read about six. Yeah,

Anne Okafor: 5:24

that's just incredible. So is that something that you learned for a particular reason? Or was it you know, something when you were younger? Or was there you know, that was helpful for jobs? What was the because not many people have that many languages. So

Suswati Basu: 5:40

it's strange, kind of, sort of, it was there within whilst I was growing up, because my mother was multilingual, as well as she. So she spoke like multiple kind of Indian languages, which, obviously, there's so many languages in India, literally, like 1000. And so, you know, just growing up with several languages, just from that was very useful, because it helps you kind of shape your mind in terms of learning other languages. So it just, it was quite helpful to be able to look at scripts, which were quite different. So for example, when you know, I was learning Spanish, obviously, in school I did my GCSE is in Bengali. And then I knew Hindi because of just watching Bollywood movies as a child, you know, and then you had several other languages as a result, that you could kind of pick up knowing those languages. But it was definitely a dream of mine to always learn Chinese since I was a kid. So someone asked me like, why, why Mandarin, my family asked me why Mandarin. And it was so strange, because my father, they're from Calcutta, which is northeast India, and it was the only communist state of the whole of India for decades. So they had a lot of kind of leanings towards the very left this socialist leanings. And it was always told when we were kids, that it was some sort of Utopia, like China was a utopia, because everyone was equal. So in my head, I was like, Oh, this, this sounds great. I'm gonna learn Chinese, I'll be a journalist, and I learned Chinese. And that's exactly exactly why I ended up doing. And obviously, the reality is that it's not exactly this utopia at all. But learning the language was incredible. At university. So I did seven years of like, studying Mandarin. I lived in China for four years. And, yeah, it was just such an incredible experience, to work and live there. And just be really engraved, like, integrated into the society there.

Anne Okafor: 7:45

Yeah, and I think it'd be really helpful, especially with the journalism kind of work that you were doing, as far as I know, mandarins, I think, if not the largest, one of the largest you can languages in the world, isn't it? So obviously very useful in that sort of respect. And, like you say, just an incredible experience to live in a different country for four years and study. And it'll do all that sorts of things, and actually do it in a different language as well. It's just incredible. So thank you for sharing that with us. I think one of the biggest differences I from an outsider looking in from journalism to going into maybe what you're doing now is that journalism is very much maybe in front of the camera in front of quite in the limelight. And probably what you're doing just now was probably the opposite of that. Would that be fair to say? And you know, how's that because I imagine that hasn't sort of challenges when you're so used to, you know, being here, and then everything changes, probably almost overnight.

Suswati Basu: 8:40

You know, what's really interesting is that journalism is very divided. So you have the extroverts and the introverts. The extroverts are in front of the camera, the introverts do things like producing on the website, so no one sees you. I always just did the behind the scenes things because I hated being in front of camera, I hate to speak in front of a camera. And so it was like a perfect transition, I was still behind a computer. I didn't have to talk to anyone, which was great. So you know, and the thing is, is that obviously, as a journalist, it didn't mean that, you know, even though you're behind a computer screen, we still had to reach out to people talk to people and things like that just meant that you didn't have to be in front of a screen for it, which was kind of thank thankful for me because I really didn't want to be in front of a screen.

Anne Okafor: 9:32

I think that's because there's something there for everyone else, you know, like all sort of STEM careers no matter what kind of personality you have, whether you're introvert or extrovert, whether you like to be in front of a camera or behind working with computers or not. There's something there for everybody really isn't there and most STEM fields famous for tech, you know, I'm sure there's opportunities for extroverts and traders and people that want to be in front of screens to be there. And then if you don't want Then there's opportunities. Oh, yeah,

Suswati Basu: 10:03

definitely. Definitely. And that's the great thing about STEM. Because you do have obviously you do have like the sales side, you've got the client side, you've got also things like I was involved with the diversity kind of failed as well. So I was leading the global initiative for mental health and disability of remote workspace. And in that light you can be you're obviously very much in the forefront. So you are kind of exposed in that way. So you can really, you know, kind of try out different things. And I think that's what's so interesting about tech startups generally, which is, it's still building a lot, it's still evolving all the time, which means you can kind of create spaces for yourself if you need to.

Anne Okafor: 10:53

Yeah, no, I think that's that's a fair thing to say. I think there's lots of opportunities across the board where I think the world changes as well, like it's changing at an exponential rate, just no job careers are changing. There's certainly the pandemics taught us a lesson that your job roles here today, that weren't even thought of a couple of years ago, and certainly things that are very fast moving like tech, I'm sure that's the case on a fairly kind of standard thing. So there's, there's opportunities to create spaces and to create rules, sometimes that play to your skills, you know, you can take advantage of the unique skill sets that we have, and almost mixed bases that work for your personalities and things like you say new tech, new opportunities. You know, it's the same in the construction industry where I work that there's new technologies emerging, and with that new opportunities for people to then find things that work for them. So I think it's a really great sort of time to be alive in a lot of ways in terms of careers, quite an exciting time as well, for people coming into the job market.

Suswati Basu: 11:55

Definitely, especially the idea of flexible working, which has been a huge shift in the last two years. And being able to remote work is such a game changer for so many people. It just infinite in terms of life standards, because obviously, some people spend so much money or even so much time chat, like travelling to work, and not having to do that is already like a huge shift in perspective. And I'm really hoping it sticks to this sort of way of going.

Anne Okafor: 12:27

No, I think it really has an impact on you know, the diversity and inclusion aspect as well. You know, people who have other commitments, you know, children, or people who maybe have physical or mental disability, who maybe have things that they need to attend to, you know, health care appointments and things like that, it just gives you that better flexibility to be able to attend to those things. So then you have a better quality of life, you, you know, you're still doing the work that you were doing before, but you're actually all the better for it, because you feel better, you're able to attend to things without having to rush off and you know, feel sorry, you know, I need to run away early, or, you know, I need to come in a bit late to attend to this appointment or whatever, I think it just gives people that, that better ability to do what they need to do as well as operate within their job role, which was important, but we're not just our job roles, you know, we are so much more than that. And it just allows people so I do I agree with you, I hope that it's here to stay for people who who prefer that, because I do think it's the the way we need to move. And I think you know, we need to consider how we can be inclusive, and it's these small sorts of adjustments that companies can make, that I think sometimes make a really big difference to individuals, but actually to teams, because if the individuals are all operating better, because they feel better, because they've got a better quality of life, then the team works better, then yeah, the whole thing is or isn't. So hello, um, through your job, career journey. Did you have mentors that sort of helped you gave the way I know, you mentioned the one chap that sort of said, Come over to tech. Did you have any other mentors or obviously been a women in that space? And you said you were on the girl? Did you have other females or a network? How did that look for you?

Suswati Basu: 14:12

Yeah, this I think this was always really important to me. And maybe I don't know, whether it's my personality or not, but I think it was always really important for me to have some kind of guidance of some sort, just because it's always really useful. So even when I was in the journalism sphere, when I first started, I was doing some work at the BBC, I had a mentor there. And you know, huge help, you know, even when I did my first job at autotrader, I had a mentor there. So like throughout, there was always someone helping in some shape or form. And the most recent mentor I got through the CMMI which is on the chartered management of Institute. So, basically, you know, it's an organisation where you can undertake a qualification in management. But at the same time, you can also get a mentorship through that, which was really helpful because I met another woman who was a CEO in her company, a tech company. So it was incredibly helpful, because, you know, she was understanding the challenges I had, where I was just like, you know, competence, maybe competence issues and things like that. And they can really, really give you good guidance and good tips in terms of managing those kind of feelings, and maybe, perhaps also how to go about certain things, if you're not comfortable things like interviews and things like that. So I think, you know, I've had a lot of mentors, and they've all been incredibly helpful in many different ways, I think. And yeah, I would totally recommend seeking one out even if in your work sphere, actually,

Anne Okafor: 15:48

yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I think that I'm the same, I've always had sort of mentors along the way. Certainly, when I've changed over to construction, and then the Chartered Institute of Building as well, it's been my sort of go to for mentorship as well. And, you know, I really encourage people to, with or within your work or with, you know, mentor, but with your work can also be as valuable, if not more in some ways, just because the fact that you know, they're not sort of in that same space, they can give an objective look, and you can talk about things maybe more openly than you might want to a colleague, although having someone in your work is good also, like depends, I think sometimes what you're working on, working on kind of things that are related to your work work, mentorship is really good, you know, first sort of making progression within your career. And then if you're maybe working on personal things, you know, maybe confidence or, you know, other things like that, maybe you want to get someone outside, or maybe you want a female, because you're the only woman in your workplace. And I think that sort of variety of mentorship can be really good as well, when you're going to ask, I guess, at certain target and different challenges, different mentors for different challenges, usually, and I think it's really important that people, you know, have a variety, you know, you can have more than one mentor have one inside work, you

Suswati Basu: 17:06

know, that's exactly what I had, as well. And actually, it was so great, because they kind of feel two different needs. And the one internally helped in terms of helped me understand what my role was within the greatest like sort of greater sphere of what we were doing, and how I could basically work towards a bigger picture rather than just my individual role, whilst the person externally could help you from again, from the outside, just dealing with sort of the day to day is so really helpful to have both perspectives, I think.

Anne Okafor: 17:40

Yeah, no, I would absolutely agree with that. So in terms of your career path, what sort of challenges have you come across that our listeners may relate to in terms of being a woman in STEM? I know, obviously, you're a wheelchair user, and you do have lived experience off disability and things like that? How has your work presented sort of challenges that people may relate to? And if so, how did you overcome those challenges?

Suswati Basu: 18:05

Yeah, it was tricky. It was tricky, because I came with a, like, in between my work where I just suddenly was diagnosed. So I had been working in one field for one company for some time. And then suddenly, I was diagnosed and had quite a considerable shift in like mobility and everything. So that was a big challenge for everyone with all of us, because we had to make some real adjustments, including, obviously, I had to have a long period of time off work just to rehabilitate, which is a very big thing. And then getting in touch with an occupational therapist through the NHS, which was incredibly helpful, because they just, they understand it from a different point of view, and they're basically your advocate. So they are extremely essential in this process of you may be trying to get back to work. Because in my case, I had to sort of phase back after it for a long, long period of time, and had to have major adjustments. So you know, I have a completely modified setup, so desk, chair, keyboard, mouse, everything is modified, is continually changing, because I my needs are growing. So you know, being involved with access to work for equipment, like sort of relaying this information to the company as well. You know, this was, again, a completely new thing for them. So they were trying to understand, okay, in future, if something like this happens to someone else, how do we manage it? So this was like, almost like the first case they were dealing with. And so, you know, there were challenges at first because for one, the building I was originally in wasn't accessible. So, you know, even though you know, doorways, actually the entrance to the building was accessible. Like, because I didn't have full access with my arms. And I was using the stick at that point, the doors weren't wide enough for a wheelchair, or my Walker had to have to sort of had manoeuvre in such a way it was quite, you know, inconvenient, I couldn't carry you say, a cup of coffee and try and open the door, because the doors would just cut, you needed a card to basically access the doors. So, you know, not very convenient. And this was every single door, and every single passageway, so it was incredibly difficult. So with that in mind, when we moved, thankfully, we moved into a brand new building that was completely like reset the so from from the start. So things like accessible toilets, having wheelchair accessible toilets next to my workspace, making sure fire space. So for example, if there's a fire, what kind of things are there in place for you to kind of manage, so they'd created several different points of sort of access points, and also just the ways to kind of deal with that situation. So you know, it was a learning curve, for sure. But in the end, we got there in the end. And yeah, it's very tricky. But in that instance, I was like, very much like, do work with your occupational therapists do work with your company, like really kind of express your needs, it's really important to communicate during that time. It's very easy to kind of shut down, especially since you're going through something quite serious. But, you know, the more they know, actually, sometimes it's really helpful for them to be like, Okay, this is what we need to do now. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. So it's a big shift.

Anne Okafor: 21:50

Yeah, absolutely. I know. And I guess, you know, hard as well, in your case, because you're learning as you go as well, you know, this is something that's new to you, as well as for the business. So it was a complete learning curve for both yourself, and the business, which you know, has its own challenges as well, when you're trying to deal with the situation in a process that, and then haven't almost educate people as you go along as well, when you're also learning yourself is incredibly a difficult situation, I imagine. But I'm glad you know that you're in a new building, and that things are much better now than they have been? How can people in the workplace like myself, and like others who don't really have experience who don't have lived experience of, of disability? How can we advocate for you, in our workplaces? Or how can we advocate for others who may have challenges? Like you said, communication is very important. And some people aren't always feel that they may be can, but how can we as their colleagues or as their employers? How can we advocate for them,

Suswati Basu: 22:50

I would say, keeping sort of keeping some kind of feedback system open. Because, you know, you're right, in terms of some people are not very comfortable talking about, you know, hidden disabilities or their own sort of issues. But having an open line of communication, knowing there's a space available, is really helpful so that people, our unit can make that first move. Even if from the company side, you just say, this is open, we're here to listen, that is enough to already start that ball rolling. I found like, obviously, you know, I mentioned that I was leading the, the disability in the mental health ERG, which the employee resource group, but my company, and one of the biggest issues, you know, with disability can be, you know, challenging, but sometimes mental health is also a quite a massive challenge for people to talk about. And, you know, I've got lived experience with a diagnosed condition of mental health. And I realised that the best way to talk about it, even if it makes people slightly like, oh, well, I'm not sure if I want to, it's just to have the platform. So, you know, the first thing we did was like, have a discussion space. So you know, keep it really simple. So we started off with a question, how are you? And we just kept asking, how are you? How are you? And it was enough to sort of start breaking into that kind of rigid compartmentalization as we do at work. And I think that was really important, which is making sure people understand that there is a space for them to actually have that conversation. And I think that's the same with the disability access. So for example, just having a colleague say, you know, oh, I think I might need help with this. ABC. Could you assist me with the the store or could you assist me with carrying this and that, that should be enough to be like, Okay, maybe we need to think about shifting this or changing this, you know, because sometimes people won't be vocal enough to go and do it themselves. So As an ally, or as an advocate, you can try and assist in that instance yourself. So I think that having that clear line of communication and understanding that there's a platform for people to actually, you know, take these grievances or take these issues is really important. Yeah.

Anne Okafor: 25:19

And I think sometimes bring it to someone like myself, you know, consider myself as an ally, or even just me being aware of it. And, you know, and being able to bring up that conversation and say, you know, how can we help you better? I think, some, you know, not everyone wants to go to their management and say, this is causing me trouble, but actually, by doing it secondhand by, through an ally through a friend or trusted colleague, that that can make it a little bit easier to approach and then it can still be brought to the company maybe in a way that can be constructive without the stress for the person who's experienced FOMO I think, I think that goes for everything as well, you know, mental health and physical disabilities, I think sometimes just knowing that someone else supports you, as well. And having them to sort of help back you up and take it maybe on your behalf might be a helpful thing to do. Is there an example of a time when someone's done something particularly well, for you and advocate, advocating for you, you know, in the workplace, maybe

Suswati Basu: 26:20

I was very lucky in my workspace, because, you know, I had obviously a major change, and, but they did their absolute best to try and accommodate in so many different ways, to really small things like, you know, making sure I had time to go to appointments, you know, even now, obviously, I'm still kind of phasing back. And, you know, I have like, weird, like, foam everywhere, like just a pad as padding, you know, and it's all taped down with like masking tape, which is very odd. But you know, they were there to assist with all these processes. So I've been lucky in that instance, to have really good managers, really supportive managers, good HR, as well, which, you know, in terms of like, making sure, they were always like, let us know, if we, if you need anything, we will, you know, help with this. And we'll help with that. And I think that was a really, really big step on their part to just kind of reach out and be like, we're here to help.

Anne Okafor: 27:21

Yeah, and leaving that open for you as well. So that you feel that you can go and then if something, you know, because like you mentioned, your situations are changing one. And I'm sure that's the case for many people as well, that there will be things that we'll need adjusted and changed along the way to leaving that door open effectively in that line of communication open. Like you said before, it's really helpful. I know, you mentioned there occupational people at the NHS as well, were really helpful in terms of advocating for you, and being a voice for you as well, especially when you're learning about, you know, your condition yourself. So yeah, that's another good point that you raised it, what can we do on an individual level? I think we've spoke about it a little bit, but as colleagues, what can we do as an individual level to help or assist someone?

Suswati Basu: 28:12

Yeah, I think it's just just making yourself known to the person. So, you know, even if it's, it starts off with just a conversation, you know, that will be enough for someone to be like, Okay, this is this person, you know, is a good person to go to, if anything, you know, I need to sort of, say anything, really. So just making yourself known as an ally or an advocate is really useful. Because sometimes you just don't know, like, who the right people are to go to, you know, you may talk to everyone, but you know, only maybe one person might be the person that could really help you. So I think, make yourself known, I think, you know, in places, I think Twitter and stuff, they have all these sort of big, you know, groups that they have, like a thing. So I think obviously, most companies don't have this is quite an American concept. But I think, you know, trying to build that into the culture is really important, which is the aspect that everyone is welcome, is very important. Diversity as welcome. And, and so really just sticking your neck out and be like, I am an ally is the biggest step. I think anyone can take

Anne Okafor: 29:30

good. Well, you know, I think that's that's a really good and useful piece of advice. Because I think there'll be people sometimes and I know, I've been probably guilty of it is not sticking my neck out for fear of maybe offending or, you know, four feet of getting it wrong. And I think sometimes we're guilty of that, you know, but I think sometimes, you know, I've learned that I'd rather, you know, respectfully ask the question, and if I can help, at least the person knows that I'm there, and maybe they don't need help. Today, but maybe you know, in a week or in a changing situation, they'll maybe remember that I was there and I was available, and that they would feel okay to approach me in the future, because I've sort of extended that handout and said, I'm here, even if it's not needed at that moment. So, you know, I think that's a really useful thing that we can all do. Yeah,

Suswati Basu: 30:20

like, even from a company perspective, in terms of like dropping an email going, these are appoint people for these kinds of sort of areas that you know, that they might be helpful. So you know, that you have a point person for certain kind of diversity sort of issues and things. So it's really useful to know who that person is, and where to go.

Anne Okafor: 30:39

I think the example that we have our work, the most recent one would be the Mental Health First Aiders, you know, when I'm sort of putting that it's on posters, it's, you know, people have the thing on their email signatures, and, you know, so you know, that those people are open to talk to, if you need them, you know, and I think some of the site managers also have like hardtop and stickers and things like that. So they're visible for people that are working alongside them. And no matter whether on site or whether you're office based, and you know, you're in the computer more than then sort of site based. So I think it's good to have that, like you say, reaching out of, here, we are these the people, if you need this, you know, we have the Employer Assistance programmes as well, where people can phone up, you know, anonymously, and seek help and things. So I think even having those things can be really helpful start in place. And, you know, they're not that just everything, but they're a good starting place, I think, for people who are looking for some advice and signposts, and I think, to specific resources that can help them as well. Because we all have different things that we may need help with. Thank you so much for all that, and I know, within the disability space, you are also a volunteer, you do a lot of incredible things. And one of the such rules is you're a board member for the charity wheels for wellbeing. So can you tell us a bit about more about, about what they do, I know, they do some incredible things. And, you know, obviously, it ties in with what we've been speaking about. So I'd really love to know more about what their mission is, and why it's important to

Suswati Basu: 32:10

Yeah, it's an incredible charity, just because, you know, the way I found out about it is by using their services myself, so when I was like, really quite bad, I was trying, like different ways to exercise. And I was like, I need to find some sort of safe way to exercise. So I went to some of their sessions, and they have, you know, all these volunteer helpers, with adaptive bicycles, you know, for all kinds of conditions. So just so many different adaptations to these bicycles. So I was using an adult trike, for example, and I realised I found like, massive benefit from I was able to cycle with it, because I can't cycle with a normal bicycle anymore. So it was really, I thought it was just really incredible that they were doing this because it was for all sorts of disabilities, including like learning disabilities. And, you know, it was really just heartening to see how much joy people were getting. And just really the encouragement for keeping fit and healthy despite having a condition. And I thought that was incredibly important that message, because it's not, it's not the end, it's just not the end when you have these sort of conditions. So, so I went to an event of theirs where, you know, they took part and they spoke about some of the the amazing projects they do in terms of advocacy and things like that, for adaptive cycles. And that's where I met the director of the charity wills for well being, and it was just such an incredible, you know, experience to be able to join them, their board, and to try to help them and guide in my own small way into sort of, like more different kinds of services. So things like how we have cycle higher, but we're trying to find ways to get adaptive cycle higher, you know, because it's very hard, we're also trying to change the road system. So they the rope, the cycle lanes are larger, so they can actually accommodate tricycle, or different kinds of adaptive hand cycles. So, you know, this is this is quite, you know, is working on a quite major scale. And we're working with TfL Transport for London, as well as sort of nationally, the Department for Transport, trying to figure out ways to make exercise accessible. So it's a really important sort of, it's always been very important to me, because exercise has always been part of my life in some shape or form. And I didn't want it to be the end, you know, just because my mobility was going. So it was it's such an important kind of topic for naps.

Anne Okafor: 34:56

I think we discussed that, you know, sort of self care and Have you taken care of yourselves for physical well being on mental well being, you know, with everything in terms of, you know, with people who are working towards peak performance work and and careers and things like that, that are quite demanding. And it's just as important for people who have different needs to have these things as well. So I was incredibly, again, it's something that was just outside my sphere of knowledge until having met you. And then and seeing what you bought the child he does. And it's just an amazing, incredible thing. And what I'll do is I'll link the Charlie's website and things into the shorter as well so that people can get some exposure to that, because when I was looking it up, over the last few days, I know they've got publications on there, and guides and things that may be really useful for some of the listeners, or some of the companies where my listeners may work that they could maybe use as a reference point. And so we'll link that into the show notes so that people can can know where to access that. But yeah, really incredible work. And yeah, Russian is

Suswati Basu: 36:01

something that's quite important because you know, the cycle scheme, which is what work companies can are involved with, yeah, so they will pay a portion of the cycle, you can also do that with adaptive cycles. So that's why that websites really useful to understand what kind of bicycles are available, or try schools or adaptive cycles, so that you can actually just go out and test, you know, what will work for me, and so you can get your own bicycle or try school adaptive cycle on, you know, the cycle scheme, as well. So it's available forever.

Anne Okafor: 36:34

Really, really good information. Thank you for that. And I'm sure that will be really useful for people to know. So thank you for sharing that. And one last thing, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your own podcast, I know you are a podcast host of how to be podcast. And I think this started for you in a place of self improvement and self sort of development kind of journey. I think you mentioned something about, you had a bad experience while public speaking, kicked off this. And now you're hosting podcasts and doing you know, we talked about you being an introvert earlier on in the journalism space. But now you're hosting a podcast and you are gonna, you know, the facing person. So know us a little bit about that journey. Yeah, no, thank

Suswati Basu: 37:15

you for that. Yeah, it was crazy. Because, for me, I've always taken things to the to extremes, which is like, yeah, I was like, Okay, I can't do public speaking, I hate it. It makes me feel physically ill. So let's do a version therapy. And so I just made myself do a podcast, even though it was horrible. At the beginning, I was just literally hyperventilating line by line. So I had to literally record one sentence at a time. It took absolutely forever. But it was a really good learning process, because it was just like, it was sort of teaching myself to calm down a bit. But then what I realised was that, you know, there was so much more that, you know, I hadn't really learned, you know, growing up, and I was thinking, God, I must not be the only person in this boat. I was like, I'm sure lots of people deal with public speaking issues, confidence issues, resilience, motivation, perseverance, you know. And so it's like, oh, there's a spectrum. There's massive spectrum. So it's just okay, week by week, we're going to explore each subject and see if we can actually help in some shape or form any kind of tips from each episode, that might be helpful to someone who's going through the same thing. And, yeah, so books have been very, very helpful this year.

Anne Okafor: 38:41

Yeah, I mean, it's incredible the journey you've had from that sort of start on buying anything, that sort of, for me really captures what we're trying to do here with everyday determinant eras, someone who just, you know, is determined to just keep on having a bit of courage. And I think sometimes, you know, we talk about courage, and, you know, when we think about big brand things, but sometimes it's just everyday determination to pick up the microphone, again, record sentence by sentence, but to just keep doing it, even though it's uncomfortable, and to actually get to a point, I mean, you speak amazing, you know, on the podcast, and, you know, as a guest, you would never know. And that sort of gives people the sort of hope for if you're in a place of stuck at the moment, it doesn't have to always be that way. It was a little bit of courage. And I'm sure you know, lots of kicking and screaming some days. But with a little bit perseverance and determination, you can really change something if you want to, you know, if you if you've got the desire to sort of, you know, get down and, and keep picking up the microphone. In your case, you can do anything you want to do if the desire is there and sort of determination to put the work in behind behind the scenes as it is. So tell us a little bit about the mission of the podcast because I know you missed quite a lot of synergy with what we're doing here. And, you know, it's about that sort of selfless on your journey, as well as looking at our resources and sort of reviewing those and giving some insights into those, and just to really help people, like you said,

Suswati Basu: 40:11

yeah, so I'm looking at you, you've seen, there's literally 1000s and 1000s of books and guides out there. And I was just like, this is almost like an Everest trying to get through all of this. So I was like, the only way we can probably bring this like, sort of hone it down a bit, it's actually read through some of, say, the top books, you could say, and I was like, let's not just stop there, like, let's go out and interview those authors. Like, let's try and get them on and, you know, see what they have to say. And it's just so incredible, because they've gone through a journey to, that's how they've, they're writing the book. So, you know, some of the people that I spoke to, which really sort of touched me, you know, who taught about grief, who talks about, you know, strength, which I thought was incredibly helpful for me is, especially during that time, where I spoke to agenda, same border Bell, who's quite a famous journalist, she's written multiple, very big books, I chasing the rainbow. And she talked about her own journey of becoming a powerlifter, as a way to kind of cope through grief. And, you know, she was talking about women's strength. She was like, I, you know, went from being very small to quite big. And, and then I realised strongest, not a size. And I was just like, yeah, exactly, why don't we talk about, you know, women being bigger is a good thing, you know, is to have that level of strength, physical strength, but we never talk about it. So exploring those kinds of subjects just made us really think. And it also kind of, when we were talking about it with other people, when the discussion groups that I run on a weekly basis with on Twitch spaces in clubhouse, they were saying exactly the same thing, which is, you know, oh, yeah, I hate this diet culture. That's just terrible, you know, and it was so interesting, because so many people were facing the same things. So it wasn't just about the basics of like, yeah, dealing, motivation issues and, and things like that, it was sort of fundamental things people have been taught since children that had to be changed, which was such an interesting sort of journey to take. So having those conversations with those authors have been really quite something. And I feel like it's really helped people. So that's, that was really quite heartening having those discussion groups.

Anne Okafor: 42:39

It's not, I mean, it's really amazing what you're doing with the project. And I encourage people to check into the How To Be podcast. And again, we will link those in the show notes so that you can get a direct link to the podcast, so you know where to go and get the right one. So thank you, I would just ask you, finally, to give us maybe your top three tips, from your experience for someone who may be in a similar situation, or maybe resource that's been helpful, but just top three tips for someone in a similar situation and how they might approach it.

Suswati Basu: 43:13

Yeah, so in terms of saying, a work situation, dealing with the health side, yet, definitely find your advocate. So, you know, getting an occupational therapist and stuff, you know, if you have enough, wear with all enough strength in yourself to be able to basically stand for yourself at that point, you know, then that's great. But if you don't try and find someone who will assist you during this process, because it's incredibly difficult. So that will be an incredible resource for you. Another aspect is yes, fight for what you need to communicate what you need. No one is psychic. And so we really need to actually say, Okay, if this is causing a problem, then you have to let someone know that it's really important. And I think the third issue is that it's never the end, it's not the end, there is always a way forward, you just have to find a different path. This is really important, you know, there's always a way forward, you might feel very stuck at one point. But actually, you've just got to find better solutions, you've got to kind of really open up your mind and look for other ways of doing things.

Anne Okafor: 44:35

And I think the wheels for wellbeing is certainly a great example of that, you know, new ways of doing things that allow you to do things that you enjoy before, but just in a different way that's more suitable to the needs that you have. No. And I guess communicating that to work in terms of things like the cycle scheme and things like that, you know, will help sort of tie all that together. So that's excellent. I've really enjoyed that conversation. I've learned a lot. And would you mind just sharing with us where our listeners can find you on your website and on the socials, which are your main socials, so that they can learn more about you and the incredible work that you're doing with your volunteering and the podcast as well.

Suswati Basu: 45:21

Amazing. Thank you so much. And so I'm on www dot how to be 24 seven.com. And then I'm also on Instagram at how to be 24/7. And you'll be able to find me on those same handles for Twitter and Facebook, as well as the YouTube channel. But you will be able to find all the resources on www dot how to be 24 seven.com.

Anne Okafor: 45:44

Super Well, we will include those links into the show notes as well so that people can get a direct link if they would like to learn more, or to have a listen to some of the topics mentioned on your podcast. Thank you so much for generously sharing your lived experiences and your insights today, you know, really helpful. I know I've learned some things and I'm sure our listeners will too. I know one of your podcast reviews refer to us super Shanti and after agreed. I really do. You're truly remarkable and it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

Suswati Basu: 46:17

Thank you so much and I really really enjoyed it. I really appreciate you having me on. You're most welcome.

Anne Okafor: 46:23

So listeners whether you're bouncing back from a challenge or storming forward to the next one, the determinant or collective is here for you still remarkable to terminators.

Unknown: 46:32

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss when new episodes are posted. He will continue to deliver real life insights on overcoming challenges, practical tips and advice on becoming unstuck with a collective of people just like you are everyday the Terminator. Until next time, take care of yourselves and your friends. Thanks for listening terminators