Building Career Foundations with Jess Reid

#023

Today I'm talking with Jess Reid. Jess is the owner of ASJ recruit, which is a recruitment firm hiring across the construction and the property industries. She's also a podcast host and her podcast is called building foundations. She is an experienced podcast host, but today is her first time as a guest.

We talk about:

• Jess' Career Background
• Learning Recruitment
• A love for construction
• A day in the life
• What makes a good match
• A Skills Shortage?
• Post-pandemic considerations
• Skills for the future 
• Challenges a recruiter faces
• Money motivations
• Jess' Podcast - Building Foundations
• Jess' self care
• Top Tips for starting your career in construction or surveying

Connect with Jess:

Website (ASJ Recruit): ASJ Recruit - Recruitment within the Construction and Property industry

LinkedIn: Jess Reid | LinkedIn

Building Foundations Podcast: A conversation with The Renovation Mentor by Building Foundations within Construction and Property (anchor.fm)

EVERYDAY DETERMINATOR PODCAST

Website: Podcast – Construction Cheer Leader (anneokafor.co.uk)

Blog: Anne Okafor – Medium

Linkedin: The Everyday Determinator Podcast: Company Page Admin | LinkedIn

Instagram: Everyday Determinator Podcast (@everyday_determinator) • Instagram photos and videos

Twitter: @DeterminatorPod

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to the everyday determinator podcast with your host, Anne Okafor founder of the determining or collective, we want to help you get off that hamster wheel of life and turn you into an everyday the Terminator by shooting stories for Americans who have overcome varying challenges in life on careers and by reviewing and signposting you to help or resources to start you on the journey to achieving your goals. For more information on the Terminator collective, please visit www.un okafor.co.uk Thanks for listening determinator.

Anne Okafor: 0:50

Hello, and welcome to the everyday determinator Podcast. Today I'm talking with Jess freed. Jess is the owner of ASG recruit, which is a recruitment firm hiring across the construction and the property industries. She's also a podcast host and our podcast is called building foundations. Now she is an experienced podcast host, but today is her first time as a guest. So I'm looking forward to I guess turn on the tables a little bit. And then it'll it's a privilege to be hosting her first experiences, I guess. Hi, Jess. How are you today?

Jess Reid: 1:25

I am thank you for introducing me. And it's really good to have my debut as a as a guest. And yeah, proud to kind of come on on yours as well and and talk through my story. But yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Yeah. Oh,

Anne Okafor: 1:39

good. Thank you. Um, it's great to have you with us. So I understand that you are just now essentially, obviously, you own your own business. But you've not always been a recruiter. Is that correct? I would like to just have a wee chat about your previous career journey, if that's all right.

Jess Reid: 1:54

Yeah, absolutely. And that is very true. I've probably been in recruitment now, about six years being roughly around that. But before that, yeah, very different. I went to university, so just have kind of retail jobs while I was studying and went to university did Sport and Exercise Science, which is completely unrelated to what I'm doing now. And then I moved into kind of, I guess, a relevant sector, because I worked in the leisure industry, worked my way from working as a personal trainer through to be like a general manager of a gym, or to train a general manager of a gym. So different management roles, which was great. But I just found it wasn't kind of fulfilling me in the way that I hoped to Career Award. And I looked at the kind of the skill set I developed during that time. What did I like about it? What didn't I like about it? What did I think was missing? Those sorts of questions? And then that's how I ended up looking at the recruitment industry. Rarely. But yeah, definitely very different to what I'm doing now. Absolutely.

Anne Okafor: 2:58

Absolutely. I think that's, you know, my story is very similar to that, you know, I have, I was in hospitality and retail for I came just construction. But I think the important thing is, you know, it's the transferable skills that you bring, and like you say, you know, you looked at the skills and seeing what, what, what transferred, but also what was missing? Did you start in recruitment in the leisure industry? Or did they come directly to construction? Or came directly

Jess Reid: 3:21

seeking instruction? And think you're absolutely right. I don't think there's ever a time that you can't kind of change career path because you learn something from everything you do. So just touch on that point. That's up. Yeah, absolutely. I'd agree with that. In terms of the construction industry, when I started recruiting in the construction industry, and I'm being brutally honest, I didn't know anything about it. I, you know, obviously, new kinds of roles, and I knew some of the trades and that sort of thing, but that was about it. So I definitely wanted to go into recruitment, I definitely kind of hand picked that as a career choice. And I pursued that. And I got my first role in recruitment. But the agency that I joined are the ones that dictated, I guess, in a nice way, they gave me a couple of options. I think I remember exactly what the word but I think accountancy might have been one of them. And then construction. And I just kind of went with construction, I think it just sounded a little bit more appealing to me, and got thrown into that and had to learn very quickly.

Anne Okafor: 4:18

A lot of people don't understand all the different job roles that are in construction, I think and it's obviously it's constantly evolving as well with new technologies, and obviously things like COVID, with probably new job roles coming up. Was that something that was a surprise here, but maybe the different job roles you were looking at are recruiting for.

Jess Reid: 4:35

Absolutely. So when I first started in recruitment, and you know, kind of had a few days of basic Recruitment Training and that side of things, and then it was all about kind of the sector you run in, what job roles would you be hiring for what sorts of companies you'd be recruiting for what those people are doing and what appeals to them? And I was amazed because before that I only really thought of like a bill would like a brick layer, joinery professional so sorts of things. And I've never known. I didn't, I don't even think I knew that there was like different types of surveyors. I'd heard the word surveyor before, but I didn't know there was building surveyors building control surveyors, quantity surveyors, you know, all of the different types that you can have. And that was a huge learning curve. But the first agency I joined, were really good in the fact that they didn't give you the training. And I sit down and say, This is what they do, but they gave you loads of resources to find that information. And then you would kind of I personally went kind of beyond them as well and wiped out all the avenues. And really kind of some of the best way to learn is just to pick up the phone and talk to a building surveyor, for example, which is a lot of what I did in my first few months. But yeah, it was a massive adjustment, not knowing anything about it. So suddenly having to know what the job roles are, what the different types of companies are. And if I speak to a building surveyor, what type of company might be interested in them?

Anne Okafor: 6:02

Yeah. They want to go as well, I guess, you know, yeah. What interests them what sort of thing is, I guess it changes as well, I think that's the thing that I would maybe observe about recruitment, as the trends are changing all the time in terms of you know, when people want to move when they don't want to move?

Jess Reid: 6:19

Yeah, absolutely. I can get the start of recruitment, when you get the basic training, and kind of initial perception is, you know, you find people in this building surveyors gonna be interested in these types of companies. Yeah, absolutely. It's not true. Really, yes, a building surveyor is going to be better for, you know, like a property sort of consultancy or public sector or whatever their background is. But they've got different motivations. Everybody's got different motivations. So just because the last person you spoke to was really interested in that opportunity doesn't mean this person's going to be. So there was learning the sector, learning the job roles, learning what they were doing. But then you've got to learn how to uncover all of those wants and needs from each individual person as well. Yeah. Which is a new skill set you kind of got to learn to.

Anne Okafor: 7:11

Absolutely, and I think it's just it's a very individualistic thing as well, isn't it? You know, it is. So I take it, you're quite happy with that decision to come to construction now. And, you know, that's something you've obviously built your business on? Haven Ramkrishna, construction and property. So what made you stick with it? You know?

Jess Reid: 7:31

No, I don't know. So I actually, genuinely can say, Hanhart that I do love recruiting in the industry I recruit. And if I couldn't do recruitment anymore, I wouldn't still want to leave the industry, I'd want to do something that was in that industry. So I do love it. But what kind of got me to that? I don't know, I it's kind of difficult to answer. It's probably a few different kind of ways around it. I guess. First of all, when I first moved into recruitment, and first got introduced to the industry, I love learning. So it was really exciting to learn about it. But then the more I learned about it, the more interesting I found it, like there's so much going on. There's so many different job roles, there's so many different people working together, so many different outcomes, because obviously, there's so many areas of construction, from civils, to build in a commercial buildings or homes, etc. Like just so much to it. I found that all really exciting. So that kind of got my initial interest up. And then the more I spoke to people in the industry, I guess just the more I started to love it further, because I think from everybody I've spoken to everybody just is so friendly, helpful, interesting, they've all got different experiences, they've all done different things. And I like all of that. So that was all intriguing to me. And then I just find it fascinating, really. So I I still love learning new things about the industry. Now if I like to talk to new people all the time, it's obviously a big part of my job, but also doing extra courses and extra learning online and that sort of thing. And just research. Yeah, just last night. And I don't know if that really answered your question. But it's

Anne Okafor: 9:13

really and I think the points you highlighted, are very similar, and many of the same reasons why I love it, and why I joined it and stick with it. I think when you do, you know a lot of people have this sort of preconceived notion about construction, that it's messy, and it's just, you know, guys in the field and you know, that's quite bored. And maybe, actually, it's completely opposite, you know, and the more you learn about it, and the more you understand the different roles and the more you speak to people with all come from different backgrounds and experiences, the more exciting it becomes, you know, and the opportunities that people have and quite a lot of people in the construction industry are very passionate about what they do different opportunities as well. So for many of the same reasons that I'm here also in the construction industry, I thank him so thank you for that, what does a day in your life look like? What is your day to day? In your job role in your career? What does that look like?

Jess Reid: 10:07

Yeah, so as probably, I guess a lot of recruiters would kind of describe it in a different way, because they have different ways of doing things, and obviously different with various life. But I actually now I have two children. So my day starts typically around getting them ready for school and everything. And then once I've dropped them off, that's when the real you know, the real day starts before that it might be checking emails, LinkedIn, etc. But generally the day is, it's kind of different every day, which is how I like it. Some people like to have, you know, from 10 to 12, I'm going to speak to people that are looking for jobs, from two to four, I'm going to speak to companies that might be hiring, but that's not how I tend to do it, because people are available at different times of the day store too. So try to book it in. And so it's a mix of, obviously speaking to people that are certainly looking for a new role, already kind of book to call in for them approaching people on LinkedIn, about opportunities I'm hiring for, see if it might spark their interest. It's working with clients I'm already working with. So whether that's catch up calls, emails, etc, see other processes going off. And any advice I can to help the process, then obviously, naturally, there's a bit of, you know, trying to bring on new clients. At the moment, there's definitely more jobs than there is people for those jobs. So a lot of it is around speaking to people might be looking for a new move. And then, as you know, there's also a lot of LinkedIn work that I do just general posting for the people that are in my network, but also obviously speaking to people tend to be it's not really I can't really give you kind of every day is the same because it's also different. But it's mixes of those things. Obviously the kind of as we call them, candidates are people looking for work or considering it. And then clients or prospective clients, LinkedIn work, and then podcast recording, editing, all of those bits, I don't have anyone to do my editing for me. Yeah, that takes a bit time to doing that. The how I guess that's kind of mostly it. And there's there's other bits that kind of fall in on the ad hoc. And I like to have quite a lot of kind of graduates and people coming into the industry that reached out to me and asked for just a bit of advice. And as recruiters, I mean, there's certainly recruitment agencies that focus on graduate recruitment, but not all the time do we get some kind of graduate roles to work on. So I still believe in trying to give something back and trying to help people wherever I can. So if somebody reaches out to me that just needs a bit of advice. I'm all ears. And I'll certainly certainly take the time to chat through that with them as well. So yeah, I hope that answers your, your question.

Anne Okafor: 12:47

I mean, that's great. So essentially, you know, it's very varied what you do, I think it's good to get those insights, because people don't realise that, I think, you know, a lot of time we think of job recruiters, maybe as just, you know, matching people to jobs. And while that is part of your job, there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, so that you understand what makes a good match. I think, you know, and, you know, yeah, research that you're doing and speaking to people and, you know, doing that sort of extracurricular activities, you know, what goes into you actually understanding what makes a good match. It's not just the matchmaking itself, it's actually understanding what was behind that is making up quite a part of your job. Yeah, of course, I

Jess Reid: 13:31

think we're in this industry. And, you know, I've never recruited in another sector, but I've got friends in a network that do. And I know, it's similar for other sectors as well. But in this sector, it's kind of very rare that I get a job role and a company I'm working with and I own lakhs worth of companies, I actually believe in first of all, and I think are going to be a good employee or no are going to be a good employer. And I take that very seriously. So don't want to just, you know, work with everybody has a have to believe in them. So don't want to match somebody to them, and then it fall through and everyone's unhappy. But for me, it's very rare that you get a job role, and you take that job role to a person and it's perfect fit firsthand. But that doesn't doesn't really happen. What actually more is, it's more so on the side of you speak to people, and you find somebody say, for example, yeah, building control. So they earn, you talk through their career, you talk through what makes them tick, what's right for them what they do or don't like about what they're doing now, what they'd really love to do, where they kind of see their future, etc. And then you identify the companies that would be right for them, rather than the other way round. And I think a lot of the time, from an outside perspective. People think it's the other way around. Yeah. But for me, it doesn't really work that way. I'd rather identify good people that I want to represent and then give them the best opportunity. And it might be there's a client I'm already working with and they'd be great for them. Or it might be that they're You'd have to go out and be proactive with it. But whatever it takes to make sure it's the right, the right fit.

Anne Okafor: 15:07

I think the other thing to probably mention as well is that it's quite a moving thing all the time. Because obviously, when companies are recruiting, you might not have the clients sitting, you know, the candidates sort of thing. And then again, the opposite may be true where you've got candidates, but not necessarily the, the perfect company for them is maybe not looking at that time. So I guess there's quite a lot of movement. And it's, I guess, a moving target almost sometimes and trying to match, you know, the best candidates or the best companies. And that that is not just a case of, you know, the companies are sitting waiting, or the candidates have sit and wait. And like you said, I think you mentioned before that there's much more jobs at the moment, then there is people fulfilling them, which is obviously great for candidates in terms of, you know, being able to maybe have the pick of where they go, you know, picking and going for the better companies or the ones that they feel would be best suited to them. What would you say about that, in terms of the sort of state of what the market looks like at the moment for candidates?

Jess Reid: 16:06

Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely. So since I started working in recruitment, it's always been everybody's talked about the skill shortage. And that's always been a thing. And when I first started out, it was a lot of talk about, and when I've asked the question, why do you think that that is two people as I was learning at the start, and they say, you know, the recession before it never kind of recovered from it, because lots of people left the industry and people work coming in, etc, which I completely understand that. And that's kind of the skill shortage as a term as remained, and some people are kind of sceptical of it, and I guess some aren't, but most people are aware that it is quite hard to recruit sometimes for the roles in the industry. And I think, you know, last couple of years, obviously, with the, you know, the pandemic and everything that's been heightened. So there was periods of time, of course, where companies weren't hiring, but now everybody seems to be hiring. But people, prospective people that work people that working in the industry now, that or maybe some are considering moves, some are still a little bit hesitant, because the economy and the way things have gone, it's been a little up in the air, I think, obviously, that's going to change a bit now, because we seem to be hopefully, you know, fingers crossed on a way out of this situation. But some people are still hesitant. And then I think naturally with the job market, because the skill shortage is kind of remain the same. But it's just heightened by the fact that more people are hiring because they paused hiring, and now things will steam ahead. But people's their wants and needs and what they're really looking for from from another role is changed. Yeah, that's what I've seen a lot of and I think a lot of that the recruiters that I speak to have seen similar things in a lot of markets. And that kind of makes it harder to recruit as well. So I think at the moment, the struggle is companies hiring.

Anne Okafor: 17:57

Yeah. And companies are maybe not sort of caught up with the changes in attitudes of candidates of changes of what people are looking for. Maybe it's better than that attitudes. But I guess because of the pandemic, people have kind of, I guess, reevaluate their priorities in life in some cases? And is it would it be fair to say that maybe companies just haven't quite caught up with that yet, or?

Jess Reid: 18:23

Yeah, I think I think it's a bit of both because some companies are doing really, really well with that. And that change. And I've seen that a lot, especially with the clients that I'm working with, it really took that on board. But it's also, you know, some companies haven't, and I'm sure they will, over time, but the ones that are quicker to respond to that will naturally do better when it comes to attracting the right people for the roles. But again, it's so difficult, because although people want different things, what one person wants to another person wants to still be different because we're all people. And we all have our own priorities. So

Anne Okafor: 19:01

no, absolutely. I think that's, that's okay. So, correct me if I'm wrong. I think your specialism is surveyors Building Surveyors building control surveyors, is that correct? Or do you do you heard across construction property is or is it sort of more specifically targeted to surveyors?

Jess Reid: 19:18

So yeah, more specifically targeted to surveyors. So predominantly, it is surveyors. However, if any of my heights are looking for additional people in other areas, then naturally if I already know the business, trust the business, I will, will support them, but as a kind of a core. What I like to focus on is building control surveyors Building Surveyors, residential surveyors, sometimes quantity surveyors. I've done some more sort of general practice surveying in the past, but the minute most of our businesses around those four roles, really.

Anne Okafor: 19:50

And what would you say are the sort of big skills for maybe recruiting for the future if people are looking to come into construction or surveying specifically You know, are there skills or qualifications that are desirable to companies? I know, again, we've spoke about the individual needs of companies and people, but are there things that are, you know, you see across the board that are generally desirable to most?

Jess Reid: 20:15

Yeah, so I think that is changing as well in the fact that as an industry, and I'm sure I've seen you talk about this a lot as well. Companies lead into, you know, the game in terms of training and development and bringing people on from different areas, they might be even from a different industry altogether, and wanting to career change, they might be, you know, fresh out of university, school, college, whatever. So companies need to absolutely be doing more of that, which, which will help but I guess, like, as a, each of the different roles I recruit for require different qualifications. So I think that's kind of hard to tell. But like the key things that a lot of my clients like about people, when they interview them, and things, they kind of talk about other things that you don't get, not well, you kind of do get an education, but you don't get from a specific qualifications to, you know, like certificate, but it's more things like, just that, I guess that like with that willingness to go above and beyond and actually be proactive with things, they seem to like that quite a lot. And I can see why they wouldn't make sense in the construction. So you kind of need to have that approach. So you can showcase that during the time when you're looking for a role simply by not just sending your CV through indeed, and hoping for a reply. But you know, calling that company making your CV stand out, add in a really great portfolio, whatever job role, obviously, it is that you do in remote pursuit for architecture. But yeah, go just be more proactive. So that's definitely one. And then a lot of the companies I speak to also make decisions on, okay, so they've got X, Y, and Zed qualifications or experience, which is great, they need to do that do the job. But they might still say no, based on just the general kind of attitude of, I guess, of the person they're interviewing, it's kind of hard to kind of describe in a way, but every company, keep going back to every company is different, it feels like I'm carrying around the houses, but every company is different. So they also need to make sure the person is going to fit in well with them. So a lot of it is round, like attitude, I guess it interview. So being, you know, positive about things, you know, showing how much passion you've got for the industry. Because I think a lot of the time stuff can be taught as long as you've got a general enthusiasm and general passion for it. So I'd probably say demonstrate skills that they can have aren't included. But if I was looking like a building control surveyor, for example, then they would be looking for somebody that obviously has got either got experience in building control, or relevant construction related qualification and the genuine passion to go into it. And then obviously, kind of a bit further down the line people that are chartered, and it's the same on each kind of role from that side of things.

Anne Okafor: 23:11

And I guess it depends on the seniority of the roles that you're looking at at that time, as well as to what in fact, qualifications will be required. But I guess that's the value of having a recruiter as part of the process, because you know, both sides, and you can then help to feel to the correct candidates for the correct roles in terms of attitude and personality, as much as the qualification side.

Jess Reid: 23:35

Yeah, absolutely. So I've mentioned earlier about, only working with, like companies that I genuinely believe in, because I wouldn't want to put someone forward for a role and then have a terrible time when they join them. Because your job, your career is a massive influence on your mental health and just your general well being. And that's huge, but it is the other way around as well. Like, if I was speaking to somebody who was looking for a new role, and I believed that kind of they I guess weren't who they said they were that, you know, there was some kind of red flags if you like been thrown off. It's not that I wouldn't offer them guidance and things like that, because I certainly would try and I guess, you know, help them in that way. But I wouldn't feel comfortable putting them forward to one of the companies I'm working with. So it does, it works both ways. And, and that is our job as a recruiter, we should only and it's not always the case, but we should only be working with companies that we genuinely believe in and only representing people that we also genuinely believe in. And that's how we, you know, we do a good job for both sides, because it isn't just about filling jobs for companies. It's about the people we're helping, you know, find the next career move as well.

Anne Okafor: 24:50

Yeah, and I think that's a really important point. You know, when you're looking for maybe if you're looking for a recruiter, you know, I've always been It's not often I've used a recruit often quite fortunate in the fact that, you know, I've not needed to a university, I kind of went into roles where I've maybe spoke to the company directly. But when I have used the recruiter, it's been someone that I've trusted, you know, I've trusted that they've had my best interests at heart. And it's not a case of like, you know, scattergun approach, send your CV out to every single recruiter and hope that someone comes back to you is finding someone that that you believe has your best interests at heart, I think that's important. As a candidate, you know, and that would be advice, you know, if someone asked me, you know, I'm looking to find a recruiter who should I can speak to, you know, find someone that you really, you know, believe has your best interests at heart and isn't just going to, you know, try and throw you in any company sort of thing. It makes sense to have that sort of relationship. Or if someone who you trust has worked with them, you know, if you if you haven't worked with someone before, that's, that's really important. And I think it's good, you know, that our, you know, I think recruiters sometimes get a bad name, you know, for maybe unethical kind of ways of working. But, you know, it's important to note that, you know, not every recruiter is like that not everyone works and operates in that way. And there are many, many good recruitment, people, like yourself that do work, to both sides interests, and to make the best matches. So I just want to highlight that there, because I know, you've heard recruiters don't always get shit in the best light sometimes. And, you know, I think that's unfair to a lot of recruiters, because certainly, a lot of the ones that I know, work ethically and do recruit in the best, best manner. So what are some of the challenges that you face? As a recruiter? You know, we've mentioned some of the things in terms of, you know, the time in and, you know, the work in and putting best people, but, you know, are there any other challenges that you face as a recruiter in the industry,

Jess Reid: 26:52

I think there's definitely challenges is a challenging role. But I guess, like, every job role is challenging in its own ways. So I can't vary too much, I really do enjoy the role. But one of the challenges, I guess, is, it's like the reputation we get, like you mentioned, because that is hard, because naturally, you've immediately got an obstacle to jump, and you have to prove yourself, and sort of, you know, takes a bit of time. And that can sometimes be an obstacle. So some people who, you know, work in the industry might already have had a really bad experience, and I can't, I can't fault them at all, if they then are worried about working with a recruiter, because of the terrible experience they've had, I'd be the same in their shoes, cannot criticise us all. But that isn't actually an obstacle, because that means that even then they just literally won't talk to us. And we might have the right role for them, they might be fantastic might goes really well to help them but we can't, because you know, they won't talk to us. So that's, that's a bit of an obstacle, and a bit of a challenge. And then kind of the main, the main challenge, really, in this sector, from the recruitment that I do, is purely round, the number of jobs there are against the number of people there are, and that is the biggest obstacle that I'm facing. And the fact that most people, if, for example, a building control surveyor, put their job, put their CV sorry, out there, or contacted a number of recruiters or even just one recruiter, probably, they would have multiple job opportunities put in front of them immediately. And then it's not, it kind of becomes out. But you know, for the companies make an offer to them. They're all then like trying to compete for this one person, and it becomes surely a competition, it's going to be what's right for the person. But

Anne Okafor: 28:43

it's difficult to difficult to sort of navigate that and make sure that obviously your candidate gets put in the right spot, you know, put in front of the right companies, but then, you know, ladies, I think it goes back to what you said like people have got different motivations as to what then they initially, or what they then what company they decide to go with, you know, maybe what motivations they have at that thing.

Jess Reid: 29:06

Ya know, I always say to anybody, if they're in that situation that I'm working with them, and then they might have if they had a, you know, job offer through one of my clients, and then one through somebody else, I would still just because it's just kind of, I guess, built into me as a person, but I would. And it's kind of counterintuitive, I guess, is that some recruiters would say, but I would say you need to do what is best for you, like, naturally, I believe that the company I'm recruiting for is right for you, because that's why I represented you to them in the first place. And I believe that, you know, you'd be happy to have but if you believe you'll be better suited somewhere else, or they can offer something that you don't think is where is with the company I'm hiring for then that's what you should go for. But it is a challenge. And one of the big challenges at the moment that kind of goes along with that is that companies are increasing salaries and offerings too. People, and although you're motivated right underneath, there might be spending more time at home with your family. If you get offered 5000 pound warrior 10,000 a year, most people will, you know, have a slight look back, wouldn't they and counter offers, as we call them in recruitment is also kind of linked in with that in the fact that if you went to handle noticing, because it could be that later, the work life balance isn't there, which is something really big, but you could go down for noticing and they could offer you salary increase in a promotion or something. And it's, I think we're finding quite a lot of that at the moment, people tend to stay in where they are, because they've been offered better. Ultimately, I think in the end, they'll end up moving because those things that are caught, kind of, I guess, in your heart and really much that that they're still going to be a problem that sometimes it can be matched for a short period of time, I guess, by better money or promotion, that sort of thing. I do

Anne Okafor: 31:05

kind of wonder sometimes if this situation would end up out the financial side, though, we'll catch up with people eventually. And that, you know, we're maybe getting bigger offers than what maybe job roles would have been five years ago or whatever, and whether that will catch up. And then I'll make it more difficult at the moment. Obviously, it's a candidate's advantage in the industry. But you know, we'll we catch up to a point where actually, what's happened and know maybe goes against us as candidates because you know, we're sort of getting more than than what companies on review really want him to give at the moment? And then will there come a time where that will be the opposite? Again?

Jess Reid: 31:41

Yeah, I agree with you, I had a conversation with one of my clients just the other day that said that they had something they were really struggling with at the moment is the fact that they were having applications, new client that I'm working with, they were having a lot of applications and getting through to an office stage. But they just, it was just a back and throw with salary. And they just couldn't get to the levels that their current employer, were offering them because it was just inflated completely from what they would have been on before. And they just said like, we just we couldn't keep up with that, you know, if we do that, for new people coming in, it's only fair that we increase salaries of people already in the team. And then how can you justify that I guess, as a business as well, like you, you want to be competitive, and you want to give people you know, great roles and everything. But if you can't match salaries long term, and you can't do it across the board, I don't think you should be doing it. Yeah,

Anne Okafor: 32:41

no, I agree. And I think this, you know, this sort of worn in there for candidates almost around the way obviously, you know, we're humans, and we go with the motivation of manager and what vision, you're gonna look for more, but then the potentially comes a time when you've had this maybe inflated offer, you're sitting there. And actually, then when you do want to leave, maybe you find yourself stuck, because you can't then get more money for you're looking at the same money for a step up somewhere else, you know, I guess it probably depends on companies as well. But there comes a time when that's, you know, a tricky game as well in itself. Yeah, absolutely.

Jess Reid: 33:17

I've had a few people do a few surveys speak to me. And they've said, you know, Jess, I am potentially looking at a new move. These are my reasons why and they're not money related. But they've sat there like, I guess, their standard of living and their way of living now on that salary that they're on that if even if I can match all the other things that they want, if the company is paying 1000s pounds less, or, you know, a significant amount, really, for most people, they just can't justify making that move. Because naturally, if your salary increases, you pretty much will change your way of living, won't you too much? Yeah. I guess most people do. And, yeah, that's certainly the difficulty because they do want to move but then they can stuck. Salary perspective, so it is hard.

Anne Okafor: 34:09

There's just different things to think about, I guess, when you're when you're looking at moves and looking at long term, you know, career progressions and things like that, what you know, and I think you know, some things, you need to think about those things, you know, even if you're making a move at the moment, you know, it's not maybe necessarily the permanent move. And, you know, there's different views about whether you should think in that way. But if you're thinking long term, you know, even if it's making a move to a company that can offer you progression, long term, you know, thinking about salary and progression and things like that are important considerations that we have when we're looking for different roles and things as well. Sometimes understanding where the industry is at and where it could potentially go, maybe we should factor into those sorts of decisions. Again, I think that's the value of having a recruiter is to get that insight because our recruiter will be looking at the industry. As a whole, whereas a candidate may be looking at one role or a couple of roles, not necessarily looking at the industry and whether it's been worth it for Well, yeah, another added values to the recruiters role in all of this. So let's have a we've talked, we've talked about your job as a recruiter. You do ESG. But let's have a we talked about the podcasts or your podcast is called building foundations. And so do you want to just tell us what your purpose is behind that and the type of people you have on and the sort of topics you cover?

Jess Reid: 35:29

Yeah, definitely. So I figured that, as a recruiter, we're having conversations with people in the industry every single day, most of the day, so many good conversations, and some of the nuggets of information and advice you get will be fantastic, what other people to hear, but obviously, they can't because it's private conversation. So I thought, why not create a podcast because I started listening to podcasts myself, and I thought they were great. And I learned so much. And actually, as I listen to podcasts that inspired me to go out on my own and build my business. So I know that they're kind of up and coming. And lots of people listen to them. I love listening to them. I used to listen to my commute now just kind of stick them on background and walk the dogs or something. But yeah, that kind of asphalt. Yeah, podcast, really interested in getting involved in that. And then thought, well, these conversations will happen, really, probably really useful for the people. So I just thought that, I guess kind of my purpose behind it. And my purpose definitely really behind it is to have these conversations on air where other people can listen to it and can learn from people who've built a great career so far, have read it, some people who go it's all different levels, it could be somebody that's you know, reached your business owner level, it could be somebody who doesn't want to be there, but as a manager, and that's fantastic. It could be somebody who's just overcome some obstacles, like, you know, anything, whether it's personally or professionally. And people can learn from that. So kind of I guess, like the the ideal guests, the ideal listeners, sorry for this podcast would be people coming into the industry or considering the industry or early on in their career even not to say that anybody at any stage wouldn't get some nuggets of advice from the people I've had on because they've been fantastic. But the idea was to create a bit of a learning platform, I guess, because that's how I got into podcasts because I was listening to podcasts that were recruitment business owners, and I wasn't there yet. And I wanted to be there. But I had to absorb all this information, to start the learning process to get there. So that's why I created in a roundabout way, that's why I created building foundation. So it was aimed to give back a bit to an industry that I really love. And I'm a recruiter, yes, but I also want to make a difference in the industry in any way I can. And I always say to people, I know I'm not directly involved in the fact that I'm not a project manager, I'm not a surveyor. But even as a recruiter, I can still make a difference. So that's why I built the wooden foundations podcast,

Anne Okafor: 38:04

excellent. Nothing, you know, recruiters have a vital role to play in the built environment, landscape, you know, that we need people like you, recruiting the best candidates, and also, you know, sort of helping candidates sort of navigate that, you know, where the market is, it changes all the time, you know, like Brexit and COVID pandemic has obviously impacted these things for helping candidates navigate this sort of job, search when it is changing, because when you're looking for a job, you're not maybe necessarily all aware of that. But also, the podcast, you know, will also give insights so that people don't know because we, if we are considering jobs, we maybe think about them in terms of what we think they may be like, rather than what they are actually like. So getting that insight insights from people actually doing the jobs will be really valuable to people who are maybe looking at changing over to a certain job role or even enter an industry from graduate or from an alternative industry as well. So really useful. If people are interested in listening to that. Are you listed on the usual sort of podcast places?

Jess Reid: 39:10

I am, yeah. And get it on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts. It's listed on our curb, but these are the main ways I guess, that most people listen to is Spotify and Apple. So yeah, it's on. They're building foundations. And I'm releasing another episode this week. So that'd be that'd be great. And we're on season two now. But I also I guess, sorry, just to kind of combat the initial point too. And one of the other reasons that I wanted to create two was because when I started recruiting in these she had no idea what each job role was. And that's been really honest. I'd like to say that now I do know so you can can trust me to recruit but I wanted people to who are listening that maybe like leaving school, leaving college, whatever, and they don't know all the different options available to them what I've tried to do in season one, and what I will continue to try and do is get people on from different job roles as much as possible. So I've had like Quantity Surveyors project managers building control surveyors residential sprayers already. But somebody from HR so that there's because there's so many routes you can be in the industry isn't that it's not just working on a site.

Anne Okafor: 40:21

I think that's it, you know, that are this loads and loads of different job roles, and construction, and Aleksei again, is changing as well. So getting insights from people in the industry will help people make decisions about what career routes to pursue and things. So I think that's a really useful thing that you're doing. And then I'm sure it'll help many people sort of identify maybe even a job role that they hadn't even considered yet. Because there's plenty of those as well, you know, even when I came, I was looking to actively pursue a career in construction. And I didn't even know about all the opportunities that were available, you know, and I think many people do. So I think spreading that knowledge will be really useful to people. So I'm glad that people can tune in at this building foundations. And you can find that on all of the usual podcast places, we will pop a link into the show notes as well for this so that people can jump there directly if they're interested in finding out about some of the job roles that Jess and her guests are talking about. So just just before we sort of wrap up, I just wonder, you know, you talked about the sort of busy role you've gotten, you're doing lots and lots of different things. You mentioned walking the dog there, what sort of things do you do for self care in terms of, you know, balance? And you know, you mentioned you had a couple young children as well. So how do you make sure that you are operating at peak performance by looking after yourself? And in terms of self care?

Jess Reid: 41:36

Yeah, that's a good, very good question. And it's something that is quite big in my life, because I, I've said it before, I'm quite an open book and think of post by on LinkedIn before and not for, you know, kind of oh, look at me kind of way, but to kind of to help people feel like it's okay to talk about your anxiety and you know, bouts of kind of depression as well, I've kind of been a part of, of my life. And something I've, I guess, battled really, and I know that self care is so important. And I guess kind of the first thing I would say is that it's okay to not be okay, and to have bad days. And sometimes you do just have to switch off from what you're doing. And just think about yourself. And I've had to learn that I guess over time, it is hard to happen, the children obviously kind of can't switch off it. But I've just had to prioritise what's most important. So if I am having a bad day, I know that I need to revert back to the things that make me feel better and make me feel happier. And give me a bit more peace of mind. And they are things like spending time with my children, taking dogs out for a walk by grandparents are a huge, huge influence and part of my life, so I will get in the car, and I will guarantee them, that makes me feel better. So from a self care perspective, I would just say, taking some time for yourself and knowing it's okay, sometimes just to switch off from things. I know, it's hard, like when you've got a busy life when you've got work, all of those things, but sometimes you have to do it.

Anne Okafor: 43:06

And I think that's why we like to talk about that here and everyday determined, because we all have challenges that we're working towards are working through. But sometimes it's you know, it's necessary just to take that five minutes. And it can be you know, whatever walk and everybody's self care will look differently. That's another message I want to get through. And that's why I'm asking all my guests to tell us what works for them. Because we all have different things. I think traditionally, sometimes when we think about self care, we think about, you know, meditation or massages or you know, good for what conflict for everybody, that's not the case, for some people that will be and we all have different things that work for us in our lifestyles and with what we enjoy as well, you know, not everybody enjoys going out for a walk. Not everybody enjoys meditation, some people do. So just want to share the different things that we do. And the things that we're maybe someone wants to try something new, and maybe they'll hear something from one of our guests that we hadn't considered before. You know, also things like time management and you know, putting boundaries in place can be part of a self care routine, it doesn't necessarily have to be the traditional things that we think about. So just wanted to discuss that and to open that up, just so people can get a different insight into what other people do. And the fact that it is okay to do that. Because I think, you know, certainly in construction, we could have been notoriously bad at doing that the self care and you know, we've been in a high paced industry, it's often you know, thought of to be very unsafe it can be Yeah, we work long hours and things like that. And you know, self care can kind of get left to the side a bit. So I'm just conscious that I really want to promote finding what works for you and you know, do more of that.

Jess Reid: 44:44

Yeah, I definitely need to get better at the self care bit. side of things, is a huge one for me just because that is what makes my heart happy. I guess. That's what helps me and my grandparents had great to kind of just let it all out and thoughts about it, and they give great advice. But I'm gonna listen back through some more of your episodes have already started. But I need to get some more advice because I think I hear loads about meditation and all the different things. And I know it's not gonna work for everybody, but I do need to incorporate some more things. I think that that is a big goal this year. So, yeah, it's,

Anne Okafor: 45:19

it's a learning curve as well, you know, what is something I've had to learn, I was very bad at doing anything self care, but actually, and sometimes I was quite good at it, I just maybe recognise it as self care, you know, like taking a data set and watch a movie or something on your day off, is self care if that's what you need in that moment, it's okay to do those things. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be the traditional things we think of as self care, although if they work for you, that's fine. And you know, taking time with your family is absolutely self care, recognising that that's what makes you happy and do more of that is definitely self care being making the time for that a lot of us don't, don't do those things as well. So I think it's whatever works for you. And if you try something new, you know, I keep trying to want to do more journaling. And a lot of people will talk about that. And it's just something that I, I feel like I want to try more often I try every so often, it just doesn't always seem to gel. And then it's like well maybe go back to that in six months and try again. And you know, so it's finding what works for you. And there'll be things you know, maybe journaling won't be my thing. But meditation is you know, and it's just learning. And it's a learning curve with yourself trying to new things and finding your own unique recipe of what works for you. And that'll be different for everybody. Because we all have different energy, we have different interests and personalities. So yeah, it will be different for everyone.

Jess Reid: 46:43

High five to anybody that is even trying new ways to look after themselves what I think.

Anne Okafor: 46:48

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with that. So just just before we wrap up, what would be your top three tips for someone looking to maybe come into the industry? And looking to enter construction or built environment? And discipline? What would be your top three tips for those people?

Jess Reid: 47:05

So yeah, good question. So I guess the first one would be to explore and research and speak to people in different job roles, and areas of the industry. So first of all, that would be a big thing that I would do advice, I'd give some money, make sure you look at what would interest you, that's a big one. And then number two would be to carry Throw yourself all in at that in a way that I would say Okay, so you've identified, the building control is a route you want to go down, have a look at what qualifications you need, what experience you need. contacts from companies, see if you can go out on site visits with a another building control surveyor for safety and come in and have a chat with one of them. Just do what you can to absorb information from people already doing that, even if it's like speaking to them on LinkedIn as a thing. So yeah, number one is explore the different different job roles. Once you've identified that I would say, then try find out as much as you can about that through other people. And then my other bit of advice would be around making yourself stand out when you are starting to apply for roles within that area, it can be quite easy to click Send on your CV on indeed or you know, any of the job boards, for example, but that's not necessarily going to get you the results you want. So I would personally and what I say to a lot of graduates and other people that contact me is I was thinking what do you want to achieve sort of in the next five years, so okay, I want to be building control surveyor, where don't want to be in five years, okay, I want to become chartered by that. Or I wanted to have completed a qualification, or I want to, you know, move up to intermediate level or something like that. Okay, so that's where I want to be, okay, what companies are in the location, I want to work that might that seem interesting to me seem could be right for me. I've listed all those companies and I'd reach out to all those companies. And from there, you can find out if they are going to be a good match for you, if they could help you get to that goal. And just be more tailored with it. So not just sending it through the job board, but actually go to them directly. And actually be very specific about your your job search.

Anne Okafor: 49:24

Great advice. There are three great tips for people looking to come into the industry. Thank you very much for that gesture, really appreciate it. And just finally, where can our listeners connect with you or find you online if they would like to learn more about yourself? ESG recruit or building foundations podcast?

Jess Reid: 49:42

Yeah, definitely. So probably the best place to find me is LinkedIn. That's where I'm most active. So I'll obviously give you my URL and you can can put the put that somewhere but it's just just read on LinkedIn. You'll see x is for air show recruit from there, you can go into my company. You can see my podcast everything, basically. So LinkedIn is the place to place to go. And I'm always happy to chat even if it's just a bit of advice. Yeah, anything I could do to help really

Anne Okafor: 50:10

awesome. Well, we appreciate that Jess and we will add just as LinkedIn connection link into the show notes that will accompany this episode. So if you'd like to know more, you can just go down to the show notes and find there and click there and connect or get in touch with us. From there, you'll be able to find more information about ESG look through and build affiliations podcasts, we will add a link to the podcast as well in the show notes for you to be able to access. Jess, thank you so much for giving us those wonderful insights into you know your life as a recruiter and podcast host. Excellent. Thank you so much.

Jess Reid: 50:45

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your taking time to talk to me as well. And my first experiences as a guest was wasn't as bad as I thought it was good. It was nice.

Anne Okafor: 50:57

I'm glad we were able to do that for you. And you know, you'll be able to do more as well if you choose to go and to do more. So thank you for that. And you know, You're remarkable. Thank you, listeners if you are bouncing back from a challenge or starting forward to the next one. The determinator Collective is here for you. Stay remarkable the terminators.

Unknown: 51:18

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss when new episodes are posted. We will continue to deliver real life insights on overcoming challenges, practical tips and advice on becoming unstuck with a collective of people just like you are every day the Terminator. Until next time, take care of yourselves and your friends. Thanks for listening to terminators