Read and Write with Natasha
This podcast discusses writing life, reviews books, and interviews authors and industry professionals.
Read and Write with Natasha
'High Tolerance': An industry insider explores America's alcohol culture
Curious about how alcohol shaped American history and continues to influence our lives today?
Join us for a compelling conversation with marketing expert and author Ella Parlor as we uncover the untold stories behind America’s relationship with alcohol.
From the Prohibition era to today’s complex regulatory landscape, we explore the fascinating history of the 18th and 21st Amendments and their enduring impact on society.
Ella shares her unique insights on the controversial "mommy wine culture" and the ethical challenges of alcohol marketing in parenting.
We also dive into the creative and challenging journey of writing and publishing her book, High Tolerance, and discuss how social media is reshaping the public image of alcohol.
Whether you're a history buff, a concerned parent, or someone interested in the ethics of marketing, this episode is packed with eye-opening discussions and invaluable insights.
Don’t miss out on this engaging and informative episode—hit play now!
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I'm a girl who's made a living selling alcohol to people, but that's why I wrote this book because I'm like that is not ethical. There's no way we would market it this way, and this is not the intention. What we want is adults to have the freedom of choice, but within the context of your children. That's something that's never sat well with me.
Speaker 2:Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha podcast. My name is Natasha Tynes and I'm an author and a journalist. In this channel I talk about the writing life, review books and interview authors. Hope you enjoy the journey. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. I'm so excited today to have with me Ella Parler, who's a marketing powerhouse whose campaigns have yielded over a billion dollars in sales globally. She's a founding partner of EP Consulting, podcaster, speaker and a real estate investor, and the author of the bestselling book High Tolerance. Ella's philosophy encourages and empowers leaders to find success across multiple dimensions in life. Ella, so nice to have you here. I'm so excited to chat about you, your work, your book and everything you do. So welcome to my podcast, read and Write with Natasha.
Speaker 1:Thank you so very much, Natasha, for having me. I'm really, really excited to meet with you and chat with you.
Speaker 2:Of course, same here. So, ella, the first thing I want to talk about is your book, which is gorgeous, by the way High Tolerance. I love everything about this book. I love the concept, I love the cover design. It's really gorgeous, you're gorgeous and the message actually of the book. So, if you can tell us what is the message of the book, what are you trying to convey and how it was received, so the floor is yours.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much. I will give a quick tidbit. I don't know if I've ever said this publicly about the book cover, so you may know that in the publishing world there are these unwritten rules, because publishing is one of the oldest industries of all time and one of the unwritten rules of publishing is that, as an author, unless you are mega, mega famous like Viola Davis or Prince Harry, you do not put your face on the cover. That is a taboo. But when writing this book, I was single. I was, you know not, I'm not married, and so my thought was okay, even if nobody likes the book, at least they'll put it on their coffee table and then they can point at it and say that's my single friend, ella, and hopefully it will serve as a dating tool, if nothing else. So it could be a paperweight. But my publishers pushed back about the face on the cover and I was like no, this is my chance to get my face out there. So thank you for noting that, because it was a little bit of a battle.
Speaker 1:But ultimately, alcohol is something that has a cultural implications across the globe. It is cultural implications across the globe. It is especially within the United States, and so when we think about alcohol and I started looking for books about alcohol in the market, there were zero. None of them were written from someone who's been in the industry. They are all people outside of the industry trying to point the finger and say you're an alcoholic, get sober. The problem with this narrative is that it really alienates the people who may want to enjoy alcohol responsibly, but are looking for ways to mitigate their drinking consumption and so forth, or at least have a conversation about the culture of alcohol without the context of addiction.
Speaker 1:I didn't find a single book on the market. Any book that was written from inside the industry was always written to promote a brand, so it would be a brand telling its story to get more sales. Ultimately right, and so I wanted to offer a fresh perspective of the culture of alcohol, specifically in the United States, given the intense history of alcohol. And so when I kick off the most boring chapter of the book, which is I started off in the front talks about the laws and history of alcohol in America, what I like to say is the quick fact is alcohol is the only sector not pharmaceuticals, not firearms. Alcohol is the only sector that has two amendments in our US Constitution. That is how deep the relationship with alcohol and our government is, and I think that there are consequences to this setup, whether they're good or bad. There are consequences, and so I wanted to shed a little bit light on the business and politics of alcohol, to give a new perspective of what I'm seeing from inside Fascinating.
Speaker 2:So what I noticed about your book is what you're saying is you still drink alcohol, you did not stop and you enjoy alcohol, but the message is that we are abusing our relationship with alcohol, and especially when it comes to government legality around alcohol. I love what you said about the two amendments. If you can shed a bit of light on that and how these two amendments affected our relationship, at least in the United States, with alcohol, our relationship at least in the United States, with alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yes, so the two amendments are the 18th Amendment and the 21st Amendment, and in my book I talk about how upset I was in seventh grade because my teacher gave every student in the class an amendment to do a project on and he assigned me two amendments and I was like this isn't fair. They all have one and I have two. That's not fair. And it was because the amendments the 18th Amendment prohibited alcohol, so it made alcohol illegal in the United States, and there are some theories as to why this happened. So one of the movements that were helping criminalize alcohol was the feminist movement. We saw that women noticed that their husbands were becoming more abusive under the influence of alcohol, and so it was one of the first feminist movements in American history that we had women coming together saying we do not want this in our families, in our lives. So there was a big Christian movement as well. You know pastors, so forth. We see that even today in the Bible Belt, certain counties that are still dry. And so there was this it became illegal.
Speaker 1:Now what we saw happen after the 18th Amendment were people such as Al Capone and various mafia, underground speakeasy type of illegal activities that came and where the government said okay, people are still going to consume this, we want to make sure we get a piece of the pie.
Speaker 1:What they ultimately did and I'm oversimplifying it for the sake of brevity is the government came in and said okay, you can buy alcohol if you buy it through us, and so what we call that is taxation. It's hard because it depends on the type of liquor. So vodka taxes are different than whiskey taxes are different than cognac taxes are different than champagne taxes. So I'm going to be a little again um overbroad here in saying that about 50 to 80% of the cost of what you're paying when purchasing alcohol is going to be taxes. Of the cost of what you're paying when purchasing alcohol is going to be taxes, nine almost $10 billion in taxes a year go to the federal government. That's not even talking about local and state government taxes. So the government is making nine almost $10 billion last year in taxes. This is a substantial amount of money, and so what I'm postulating is that is it possible that it is in our government's best interest that we are consuming this product when they are the ones yielding revenue from it?
Speaker 2:Interesting and do you think that's only in the United States? Because I noticed when I go to Europe, like I remember when I was in Barcelona, you buy like wonderful Spanish wine for like two euros and you will never find that price in the US. Do you think that's something unique to the US?
Speaker 1:Yes and no Taxes, especially when we talk about bourbon. So bourbon is one of the largest alcohol exports into markets such as Europe. So when you're dealing with import-export, I'll use California as an example. California is responsible for about 40 to 50% of the wine production in the United States. Most wine it's likely to come to California, especially from an export. So California wine is very affordable in California despite the taxes. But of course, if you were to buy a California wine in Spain now, you're going to have different tariffs that were tacked onto that product.
Speaker 1:So it's more than just this idea of oh, the US has more taxes and these other governments don't, because the tariffs do work both ways. But where this does become relevant is that when the government wants to put some type of embargo or stronghold on another government, such as, we'll say, france. Right, within our French relations, we know that one of the biggest exports coming out of France into the United States is going to be champagne. Champagne legally has to come from France by definition. And so which?
Speaker 1:Again, that's a whole nother thing the councils of all these people who make definitions of champagne and bourbon and cognac. These are legal definitions, they're not just fun category names. And so when you start to look at the business side and the policy side, this is where we might see that certain products are pushed more. This is where certain products might be taken aback. This is where you'll see the pricing strategy completely impacted by government, and so that's where I wanted to offer that by government and so that's where I wanted to offer that. And then again, the legal side of it is the most boring side, but it's really hard to have a conversation about alcohol in general, whether it's from a cultural perspective, without considering the taxation and financial implications for government entities.
Speaker 2:Okay. So there's two things I've been noticing. One thing is, during the pandemic, everyone started drinking heavily and after that, especially when it comes to Gen Z, and the latest reports show that Gen Z are not drinking as, let's say, millennials and baby boomers, etc. And there's also some movements that say alcohol is really bad for you, even one glass of wine, and you see it now with big podcasters, health and fitness promoters. And then we have the emergence of dry January now, where everyone is refraining from alcohol, and I've been actually seeing this really pushback against even moderate consumption of alcohol. So where do you stand on this? And are we actually, as a nation in the United States, drinking less, especially with Gen?
Speaker 1:Z.
Speaker 1:So, unfortunately, this is a hot topic, a really hot topic, and we do know that there are significant disruptions coming into the alcohol sector, one of, I would say, between the non-alcoholic alternatives, the cannabis products that are getting introduced to the market, and then now we have this magic mushroom category. So when we look at these three segments of this alcohol space, we'll call it escape business that's what I like to say Things that we're using to escape our reality. So those, of course, are disrupting the market. But what I believe about Gen Z, when we look at the actual numbers of alcohol sales, you are absolutely right. Alcohol companies lost money during the pandemic. Again, there are legal reasons for this and I go into it to the book. It's hard to explain, but the fact is is that our sales, from a dollar perspective, were lower. A good example is if you buy a bottle of, we'll say, vodka at a store, it'll be around $30, $40. But if you buy a bottle of, we'll say, vodka at a store, it'll be around $30, $40. But if you buy a bottle that same exact bottle of vodka, same bottle, same product, same size at a club, it could be $1,000, $1,500, right, same exact bottle. There are legal reasons for that that I won't get into right. So what happened was we saw people drinking less at nightclubs, of course because of the shutdown, but they were drinking more at home. So while there were dollar sales lost, our volume actually went up, and what we're seeing post-pandemic in 2024, for the first time ever, is that women ages 40 to 50 are dying to alcohol-related deaths for the first time. It's crazy, and we know that that's coming out of the 2020 pandemic.
Speaker 1:When we talk about Gen Z drinking less, again, looking at the numbers, I love to be data-driven here. The data says Gen Z says they drink less. I believe that this is a lie that they're telling themselves. They think they drink less than they do because they're drinking a seltzer instead of drinking a beer, or they're drinking a White Claw, for example, instead of drinking a shot of tequila. But ultimately, a canned beverage and a shot of a liquor are going to be the same alcohol, the same volume.
Speaker 1:It's just you have a little bit more non-alcoholic with it, and so I think there's a misconception with Gen Z that they're drinking less, when in fact, we're not seeing the sales dip within that segment. Now it is really hard because many of the Gen Zers are just turning 21, 22 right now. So it's really hard for us to capture that data specific to such a small segment of the legal drinking age population In the United States for any of your international audiences. In the United States the legal drinking age is going to be 21 and above. Many of the Gen Zers are not even 21 yet, so it's really hard for us to determine and pinpoint that specific segment. Yes, they report that they drink less. I don't buy that. They actually are drinking less.
Speaker 2:So do you think that I'm going to focus on the US here, because I'm based here Do you think that the US as a nation is becoming more health conscious and that's why there's a push to drink less? I mean, I've been noticing, I listen to a lot of podcasts, obviously, but you have people like Andrew Huberman and others, like Peter Atiyah and others, who push for longevity and the number one thing that they say is, if you want to live longer and healthier, zero alcohol, not even alcohol, and moderation. And then there's all these studies about how it affects your brains, affects your skin, affects your long-term longevity. So do you think that's making an effect, or is that only among just the niche audience that just keeps repeating the same thing among themselves?
Speaker 1:I absolutely believe that there is a movement occurring, which is why I wanted to write this book. I'm very curious as to how this book will age in the next five to 10 years. There is a big health conscious shift. That said, instigating conversations about this is still difficult. It is really difficult, and it's because I think that we are struggling with how much alcohol is a part of our culture. Alcohol is a part of our culture, and whether we like it or not.
Speaker 1:A lot of laws were changed in 2020 because of the pandemic, and a really big one that is very relevant is that up until 2020, it was illegal for alcohol companies to market on college campuses, but because college teams lost so much money in funding and sponsorship funding for their sports programs in sorry, when I say alcohol, I mean liquor they were allowed to have beer sponsors, but they weren't allowed to have liquor. In 2020, after losing so many dollars from sponsors, they went and got it changed, and now there are liquor companies building sponsored bars on college campuses. This was not legal five years ago, and so this is where I have these types of vantage points where I'm seeing like wait, we can do that. This was illegal. We weren't able to do this. Before, we could not have influencers who were under the age of 25. Even though the legal drinking age was 21, we weren't able to have influencers under the age of 25 because they could still appeal to underage drinkers. That has now shifted, that we are celebrating when someone turns 21. And again, someone who's turning 21 has underage friends, right, that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting to see these shifts and I think that there is a cultural pull of and that's why I wrote this book again is I just want to instigate a conversation somewhere in the middle. Yes, you have these hardcore influencers coming out and saying alcohol is bad for you, it's ruining your skin. A lot of things are ruining our skin and are poisonous for our brain and poisonous for our eyesight and poisonous for a lot of things, right, our food that we eat, the air that we breathe, the water that we drink, right, I mean, there are places that we're getting poisoned all over. I always say at least alcohol doesn't hide it. I think that when we see this cultural shift of people saying, oh well, you need to eradicate alcohol completely, I don't know that that's the right answer, because then they're alienating everybody, such as myself, who decides to participate in this celebration culture of indulgence, enjoying and so forth. And so, for the people who are crying for a radical, 100% sobriety, I don't know that that message is resonating with 80, 90% of our legal drinking age individuals.
Speaker 2:You mentioned something about the legalization of like recreation drugs and so, for example, in Maryland it was legalized last year and do you think because of that people would rather go towards recreational drugs? Like, if we project, I don't know, 10 years from now, it's going to affect the sales of alcohol dramatically because people found a legal alternative for this.
Speaker 1:So the cannabis. I will say I'm not an expert on cannabis and I'll speak to cannabis specifically because the mushroom legalization is so new. I believe we only have that in the state of Colorado in the United States, so I don't even want to touch that topic. I am not a cannabis expert by any means, but I can give my vantage point. I have been heavily recruited by cannabis companies because of the knowledge I have of regulated of the sector. It's a very congruent sector. The problem is, until cannabis is legal at the federal level, there are going to be a lot of problems for people who decide to move to that sector, and that's why I've turned down very large sums of money to go into the cannabis space because until it's federally legal, there are going to be issues with the money right, banks, money those are all federal entities, the banks are, and so if you can't legally operate federally, there are going to be some problems from a business perspective. I'm not talking about the consumer, I'm talking about the business side of it. This is why I have refrained from going into the cannabis sector myself.
Speaker 1:Alcohol still is legal federally in a way that cannabis is not. That said, we know that. Again, looking at the data, we know that alcohol has several diseases in the human body that cannabis and other products just do not. We have fetal alcohol syndrome, we have hepatitis of the liver, we have liver disease. There are several diseases that are created in the human body because of the consumption of alcohol, and cannabis does not have that of alcohol and cannabis does not have that, and so I do imagine that cannabis is going to continue to be a big disruptor in alcohol, however, because it is still illegal federally.
Speaker 1:What I also believe knowing that there are a lot of lobbyists and policymakers who are working really hard to keep alcohol on the top of its game game is that, before cannabis becomes legal, I believe that alcohol companies maybe tobacco companies, but one of the two are going to be buying these cannabis companies, so they're still profiting from their quote competitor, and so we're not. We're just going to see a shift in the consumption, perhaps, but ultimately it's still. I believe there's going to be a shift in the consumption perhaps, but ultimately I believe there's going to be some blending and merging of the business as cannabis becomes more legal. We're already seeing this with particular alcohol companies that I won't name by name, but you can look them up. There are several alcohol companies today producing cannabis beverages.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay, this is fascinating. So I have one question about the culture of drinking among moms, as a mom myself. There's this I'm not sure if it's still there, it's going down, but it's like after a long day, and even in the movies, the commercials, they always show the stressed out mom with a big bottle of wine, and then you see the moms coming together for a book club and drinking wine at the end of the day. So there's this big culture of motherhood and drinking wine. Do you think this is being pushed commercially or it's, you know, glamorizing the culture of drinking, especially when you're a mom?
Speaker 1:So I get very frustrated and I take it a little personally this topic for a few reasons. One we have in the alcohol world. As marketers, we have very strict guidelines that are not only legal guidelines but we have ethical guidelines that we adhere to. I won't speak for the wine company, because how they're regulated is a little bit different, so I'm going to speak to liquor here more than wine. As marketers, we're not going to make a mommy tequila. We're not going to do that Because the moment you say mother, you're thinking of children, right, and we want to stay as far away from children as possible.
Speaker 1:There's this misconception that we want to stay as far away from children as possible. There's this misconception that we want to secretly target children. That is not true. I have cut several programs that I was like that could appeal to children. Let's cut it. We don't want that for so many reasons. We know that alcohol is an adult beverage and we want to keep it that way.
Speaker 1:So I think I have a hypersensitivity to this mommy wine culture because a lot of the things that I say completely go against compliance. So when you see a mom on Etsy, I love to use sorry to pick on Etsy, but when you see a mom selling like mommy wine time shirt that is not abranded shirt, that is some mom in some city making it in her garage and selling it on Etsy. My problem with the mommy wine culture is what is it about our children that we need to escape reality and do we think that this is going to create and this is where I get really nervous about the future generation? This normalization of using alcohol to escape is where I want to sound the alarm and say no, no, no, no, no. We need to be present more than ever with our children. We are escaping way too much as people whether it's alcohol, whether it's the internet and scrolling on our phones, whether it's alcohol, whether it's the internet and scrolling on our phones we are people who are dying to escape our reality, and that's the part that doesn't make sense to me. We see TikTok mommies putting alcohol in their Capri juice and drinking out in public. That is illegal. You are breaking the law when you are consuming alcohol in public spaces. You should not be pouring wine into your cup at your child's baseball game. This is illegal and the alcohol companies will never stand by illegal practices such as drinking out in public.
Speaker 1:So it's funny to me because I feel like we, as the industry get the blame for mommy wine culture, when I actually would say that there's a group of people who are trying to escape their reality, that are kind of sabotaging the moment and creating this really sick and twisted idea that in order to cope with my kids, I have to be numb, and that, I would say, is like a really big sign that you need to go to therapy. And if you're, I mean I'm not a therapist by any, I'm not a psychotherapist by any means. I'm a girl who's made a living selling alcohol to people. But that's why I wrote this book, because I'm like that is not ethical. There's no way we would market it this way and this is not the intention. What we want is adults to have the freedom of choice, but within the context of your children. That's something that's never sat well with me.
Speaker 2:Well, if I want to play the devil's advocate here and kind of defend the moms, I think for them it's not escaping being with children, it's de-stressing after being present with their children all day long, so that by the end of the day, when their children, you know, go to bed or go to their ipads or whatever, that is their time to escape and de-stress. I think this is the way it's marketed, like they're not drunk while they are with their kids, they're de-stressing after a long day of dealing with it.
Speaker 1:So that's another perspective. Alcohol is something to be convivial, not alone. Again, this is a new law that has changed, a new we'll say ethical, not law a new ethical standard and practice that has changed a little bit in alcohol, not too much. But when you look at alcohol commercials you see people coming together, you see unity, you see community, you see cheersing. You don't see someone drinking at home alone. That is a red flag period. You see cheersing. You don't see someone drinking at home alone. That is a red flag period.
Speaker 1:And it's hard because we want to believe that we're allowed to unwind this idea of unwind and de-stress. We need exercise for that. Alcohol should not be used for that. It really shouldn't be. And if we become a nation that and I'm saying culturally, I understand that we do it.
Speaker 1:But I know for me this is a little ironic. When I have a really hard day at work I don't have children, but I'll have a really, really hard day at work and I'm stressed the last thing I want is to look at alcohol, cause I've just spent my whole day looking at bottles and looking at commercials and looking at all. The last thing I want is to I'm like get that out of my face. Give me some water. I hate like I'm just like I don't want anything. I want to stay as far away from alcohol as possible, cause I'm like you are the source of my pain Right when I'm having a very stressful day at work, and so I think that that's a weird reverse psychology that happens that a lot of us I always say a lot of us in the industry and there are reasons that I outline in my book that I believe this to be true, and this is why I wanted to write the book from inside the industry, I would argue that there are less alcoholics in the alcohol industry than any other industry.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting, because they're, I guess, so in the trenches that they're kind of put off by it Hyper-aware, hyper-aware of what is.
Speaker 1:We do different regulation, we do different compliance training. We're just hyper aware of things. We don't drink and drive. Now, a big part of that is many of us have Uber accounts, right, so there's really no reason to be drinking and driving. But, furthermore, a lawyer drinks and drives. He might lose his bar if he goes to prison and on a you know. But like we get caught drinking and driving, it doesn't matter if we get a DUI or not. If we got caught drinking and driving, we're terminated. One DUI. You are not welcome in this industry, period. But there are plenty of other industries.
Speaker 1:I like to pick on lawyers. I'm so sorry, but because attorneys overwhelmingly, we know, have severe problems with alcoholism, right, and so I think it's really interesting because there's this external perception that we're all a bunch of drunks and we're drinking all day. And yes, we're surrounded by alcohol all day, but we have to have a somewhat healthy relationship with it because if we don't, we would succumb to the drinking so much more quickly because a lot of our offices have full-time bartenders the drinking so much more quickly because a lot of our offices have full-time bartenders. You know, we're surrounded by it. So it's an interesting flip of the narrative, but I think that that's where we're a little bit more sensitive to the drinking practices and I think that, again, this isn't to point the finger, it is to start a conversation and really look at, okay, where I'm making this.
Speaker 1:I have the freedom of choice. Where is this choice coming from? Is it of my own sound mind? Is it out of desperation? Is it out of the marketing and advertising and kind of just being able to identify? Why do I want to pick up this drink?
Speaker 2:So what about this movement of, let's say, red wine is good for you? So I'm going to give you an example. I was watching this documentary about the blue zones, and so this researcher travels to the places in the world where people live the longest, and one of his findings was this tiny place in Italy that they drink one glass of red wine every single day with dinner, and his conclusion was that one of the factors that led to their longevity is that one glass of red wine. And there is. You know, people will always say, oh, but red wine is good for you. Red wine has this and it's good for you. So where do you stand when it comes to this different message?
Speaker 1:In the alcohol industry. It is illegal for us to insinuate that there are any health benefits to drinking alcohol, even if they exist. So we again, assuming that the laws don't change, that is not something that you're going to see. You're not going to see a heart-healthy bottle of wine. That's illegal. We recognize what I would say in your Italy example is, more than the wine is the lifestyle, the lack of overall stress. Again, I am a firm believer that we should be able to have a glass of wine and enjoy it with our family and with love and with laughter. But it's the love and the laughter that creates the longevity of life, not that glass of wine.
Speaker 1:And when we look at codependent relationships, either interpersonally with humans or with ourselves and alcohol, right, Someone on the outside can't tell you whether or not you have a codependent relationship. It is only when you know the motives behind your action. So whether you're having one, I think we get too caught up in the quantity of why we're drinking and what I want to do is reposition it and look at well, why are we drinking? Are we drinking to celebrate? Are we drinking to enjoy the taste, whether it's one glass a day or one glass a week, are you just?
Speaker 1:I know somebody in my life who only drinks on the weekends, and so to him he's not an alcoholic because he only drinks on the weekends. That is his time delegated for drinking. But do you know that Thursday and Friday he can't wait for Saturday? That, to me, is an unhealthy relationship. So it's not about the ritual of whether it's daily or weekly or how often it is. What is your interpersonal relationship? What is your dependency with this product? Which is why I am an advocate of things like Dry January you wrote that book about your experience with the alcohol marketing industry.
Speaker 2:How did you find your publishers? Did you have to pitch to a number of agents? Publishers? How, how, how, like. Just tell us about your publishing journey.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, so this started. So I should say, if I'm being honest, right, because the writing journey I started journaling when I was seven years old, so I had a lot of content, which is why I was able to recollect a lot from my childhood. So, if I'm being honest, right, the writing of this book started many, many years ago. Okay, I was approached I have a podcast and I had, throughout the years, because I've done a lot of sales, training and public speaking people have suggested that I should write a book a few times and I just always thought what would I write about? Who wants to read anything about me? And I was approached by a publisher, not the publisher that I ended up working with. I was approached by a publisher and ultimately was not interested in working with them. They were a vanity publisher, which I'm very wary of. So, for any of your listeners who are interested in writing a book, I would be very wary of publishers who reach out to you for a book but then ask you to pay a bunch of money. That is a bit of a red flag, and so I'm not saying that they're all vanity and terrible, but you do want to look at the quality of their previous work and what responsibility they take on for the distribution and publication of your book and really the standard set. So after that negative experience with the vanity publisher, I did get my juices flowing and I started getting excited. So I'm grateful for that you know, negative experience because it gave me the courage I needed to create a summary to then pitch to various literary agents. So I probably did it the worst way because I didn't know what I was doing. I'm not from the publishing space, I don't have a lot of contacts there, and ultimately the feedback that I got was, while the premise is interesting, you're not famous enough, you're not like there's you know there's really the marketability is difficult, you would be bouldering it. And so I was like, okay, but now I'm already starting to write this book because I'm starting to really like it. And so I found an incredible and it was through a mutual contact of saying like, hey, I want to write a book and I think I'm going to self-publish my publisher, game Changer Publishing, who I cannot speak highly enough about. My publisher, game Changer Publishing, who I cannot speak highly enough about. They are a hybrid, so they are in between the self and indie publishing space. They provide incredible expertise and they are the reason why my book is available at over 40,000 stores. They're the reason why I have global distribution. They're the reason why my book was a bestseller. They're the reason why my book is legit Because, like I said earlier, there are a lot of rules to publishing that are unwritten and if you're working with someone who doesn't know what they're doing, or if you try to do it yourself when you have zero experience, you're going to make a lot of mistakes for example, with your ISBN, with your publishing page, with your copywriting, with the Library of Congress and so forth that you're not going to know that you're making those mistakes because there's a lot of gatekeeping in this space.
Speaker 1:So to have those powerful partners on my side was incredible. But on the independent side, I was responsible for the marketing, I was responsible for the SEO. I was responsible for choosing the title. I was responsible for the SEO. I was responsible for making sure, like you know, choosing the title, I was responsible for making sure that this book was positioned in the way that I wanted it to be.
Speaker 2:So how was the book doing and what was the reaction from the industry? Did you get any negative feedback? Not to my face.
Speaker 1:I still am waiting for that negative review on Amazon. It hasn't come yet, but I won't believe that I've truly made it until I get some scathing review from some troll that I'll never meet in person. I am just floored by the reaction of this book. One of the hardest parts about creating a book that nobody tells you is that you have to be the person to promote it, and I know you understand this with. They called me Wyatt right. Who better to talk about this beautiful book that you wrote than you? Thank you, yeah Right. People don't want to hear about it. They want to hear about it from you, and so what a lot of authors do, and where they amputate their success and their momentum, is they don't want to. They want to write it, but they don't want to be the one promoting it. And the self-promotion is cringy as hell, especially with my book, because it's got my face all over it, so it's like my big face. I'm sick of that cover. I can't stand that cover.
Speaker 2:It's, it's, it's like very eye grabbing. It's gorgeous, honestly and I've seen a lot of books Trust me, look behind you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, I have to turn it over when I see it at someone's house. They put it all on display and it's bragged to me and I'm just like I don't want to see that face ever again. No, I'm very grateful for my cover. My publisher did a beautiful job with it, thank you. But I'm just sick of looking at my face, and you know so I will say that it it that is like a very, very difficult part is the self promotion, because we, you know, we don't expect that, and so there was a point, about a month or so after my book launched and it landed on bestseller list, that I was like I'm done talking about it, I'm not going to talk about it anymore. I think it's too much. I've promoted it too much. I'm sick to my stomach. Nobody wants to hear about this book anymore. But every single day since I've published that book, every single day, without fail, somebody is reaching out to me to explain to them why the book touched them. There have been several people who've reached out saying that they checked themselves into rehab after the book. I did not expect that. I'm not sober. I'm not here to tell people to get sober, but I think there was something that I said in a way that resonated with them, that they realized that their relationship with alcohol was completely unhealthy. I had people open up to me about some of their painful experiences with an alcoholic parent. I don't talk about that at all in my book. So the thought, the fact that they felt like they were getting um more perspective on maybe where their, their parent uh succumbed to their alcoholism, was really fascinating. And I think the the most surprising reaction for me was how many people purchased the book, read it, enjoyed it and gave it to their younger daughter. I did not expect that reaction.
Speaker 1:This book was written with the intention of being for adults, an adult conversation. It is not a vulgar book. It is in no way an explicit book but because of the nature of alcohol I just assumed it would be. You know it's a picture of me with a martini glass. That to me screams adult, adult content. And after reading the book there are also a few cuss words for anybody you know curious about that. I do curse a few times strategically in the book to stay true to the nature of the conversations I've had. But people are giving it to their daughters in high school and college to help empower them. As a woman in business, I'm in a male-dominated space. I've built my career and my business from ultimately scratch and I think that that story has inspired people to want to say I want my daughter to read this because I want her to know that it's possible to build the career and the business and the life of your dreams.
Speaker 2:This is fascinating. I mean, I enjoyed every second of this conversation and it's been really wonderful. So how can people reach you who are listening or watching? What is the best way to reach you? Is it Instagram? Is it what's how, how and how can they? How can they get your book?
Speaker 1:My book is available online. If you love Amazon, you could throw it in your Amazon car. It's available on Barnes and Nobles, walmart, target. It's available across a lot of independent stores. You can go into your favorite bookstore, ask them to order it and they can order it for you. So it's available anywhere, really everywhere. Where I'm going to have everything is going to be ellaparlorcom. I'm active on all the social medias. That's the beauty of being in media You're just on all of them, all the channels. So, except YouTube, you might have to put me on there, natasha.
Speaker 2:Ah, yeah, yeah, YouTube is very important.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, so I'm not happy to help. Yeah, I'm not on YouTube yet, but um, outside of that, yes, I, I am Um it. It really is going to be Ella parlorcom. I'm the only Ella parlor in the world, so if you just Google Ella parlor, you'll you'll find whatever channel is most comfortable for you.
Speaker 2:Great. Um, this has been wonderful. Uh, and thank you for joining me and for anyone who is listening or watching. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha, and don't forget to get the book High Tolerance. And until we meet again, thank you, natasha, thank you, thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. I'm your host, natasha Tynes. If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. Until next time, happy reading, happy writing.
