Is Israel's claim to its land biblically justified? Join us for an eye-opening discussion led by Dr. Robert Jackson and his special guest, Dr. Michael Cloer, a renowned expert in Bible prophecy and Middle Eastern affairs. We confront the heated topic of the United States' support for Israel amidst its ongoing conflict with Hamas. Dr. Cloer argues for a biblical worldview, asserting that Scripture is the ultimate authority on land ownership. He brings to light a contentious statement made by a Palestinian leader at the United Nations, emphasizing why Israel holds unparalleled significance according to the Bible. With seven compelling biblical points, Dr. Cloer starts with the assertion that all land belongs to the Lord and builds a strong case for Israel's claim to its territory.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We delve into the unbreakable nature of God's promises, focusing on the eternal covenants described in Scripture. Dr. Cloer dissects the blood covenant from Genesis 15, explaining how God's faithfulness underpins these covenants, dispelling the myth that the church has replaced Israel. We explore the ongoing conflict between Jews and Arabs, ultimately concluding that true peace will only be achieved with the return of Jesus Christ. Additionally, we unpack end-times prophecies from Isaiah, Zechariah, and Revelation, discussing the battle of Armageddon and the ultimate return of Jesus to bring lasting peace. If you're keen on understanding these profound and timely biblical insights, this episode is a must-listen.
Is Israel's claim to its land biblically justified? Join us for an eye-opening discussion led by Dr. Robert Jackson and his special guest, Dr. Michael Cloer, a renowned expert in Bible prophecy and Middle Eastern affairs. We confront the heated topic of the United States' support for Israel amidst its ongoing conflict with Hamas. Dr. Cloer argues for a biblical worldview, asserting that Scripture is the ultimate authority on land ownership. He brings to light a contentious statement made by a Palestinian leader at the United Nations, emphasizing why Israel holds unparalleled significance according to the Bible. With seven compelling biblical points, Dr. Cloer starts with the assertion that all land belongs to the Lord and builds a strong case for Israel's claim to its territory.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We delve into the unbreakable nature of God's promises, focusing on the eternal covenants described in Scripture. Dr. Cloer dissects the blood covenant from Genesis 15, explaining how God's faithfulness underpins these covenants, dispelling the myth that the church has replaced Israel. We explore the ongoing conflict between Jews and Arabs, ultimately concluding that true peace will only be achieved with the return of Jesus Christ. Additionally, we unpack end-times prophecies from Isaiah, Zechariah, and Revelation, discussing the battle of Armageddon and the ultimate return of Jesus to bring lasting peace. If you're keen on understanding these profound and timely biblical insights, this episode is a must-listen.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm privileged today to have as my guest Dr Michael Clore. Michael, tell my guest a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're from, who's your mama, who's your daddy? You know that kind of stuff, go ahead.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, Dr Jackson, for allowing me to do this. I'm just a preacher. I've been preaching for 54 years. I pastored 50 years.
Speaker 2:
Man that's longer than I've been alive, michael.
Speaker 3:
I feel it sometimes God is so good to allow us to serve Him, and now I'm serving Him here on the coast of North Carolina as a mission strategist serving 70 Southern Baptist churches here.
Speaker 2:
Wow, wow. Well, the reason I invited you to be on is I know you're an expert on Bible prophecy, I know that you're an expert on the affairs of the Middle East and I'm not much on Facebook and stuff like that. But I've been noticing exchanges on the internet and on Facebook between folks who are a little bit contentious about the United States' involvement in what's happening in the Middle East right now, and people are confused about whether or not the United States should be backing Israel in their current conflict against Hamas. And I hear people saying things like that Israel is a godless pagan nation that hates God, hates Christians and spits on the United States and spits on Christians, and that they're abusing the Palestinian women. And why in the world should US tax dollars be going to support a nation like Israel?
Speaker 2:
And I hear people saying things like well, you know, the promises of God towards Israel were all completed in the old covenant and actually have nothing to do with the current nation of Israel, and that we really shouldn't be Zionist, we really shouldn't be people who support Israel or even pray for Israel any more than we pray for any other nation in the world. So I wanted to invite you to come and sort of respond to some of those things. And so here's my first question. My first question for you is the Palestinians claim that Israel is occupying land that really belongs to them, and so the first question is whose land really is it, dr Clore?
Speaker 3:
I'm not laughing at the question. I'm laughing at the philosophy that people have that simply comes from other people's ideas. As a Christ follower, I have to have a biblical worldview, a godly worldview, instead of 98% of the world has their ungodly or a godless worldview. In other words, the final authority for all of these answers is the Bible, the Word of God. It's the only source that's 100% accurate, 100% of the time. And so we find the answer to those questions about whose land is it man?
Speaker 3:
Even this week, even this week, the United Nations I'm trying to remember when's the last time they did something that was right. But even this week, a leader spoke up among the so-called Palestinian people. Let me give you his direct quote. It was made Monday of this week. Our objective is simply the liberation of the Palestinian soil and the establishment of a Palestinian state over every part of it. Thus, the Jews must be removed from the land and Israel must be annihilated. We can accept nothing less. Now, wait a minute. That wasn't said in a bar outside of Tripoli. That was in the United Nations. Had that been said about any other group of people, immediately that person would have been censored. That person would have no other voice.
Speaker 3:
So I'm telling you this view, this godless worldview, is taking rapid force right now through the world. And, dr Jackson, that's not coincidental, that's prophecy. All history is prophecy fulfilled. That's right. And all prophecy is history unfulfilled. When you ask what's so important about this particular this is the most important piece of land on all the earth Again, that's not my opinion, that's the Bible. In Ezekiel 5, verse 5, the Bible says thus says the Lord God, this is Jerusalem. I have set her in the middle of the nations and the countries all around her. And that's exactly what he did. And Israel is the epicenter of the world, it's the center of the world, it's the geographic center of the world, it's the crossroad of the nations.
Speaker 3:
They all hinge around that, the spiritual center of the world, the revelation center of the world. If you want to know what's going to happen in the world, keep your eyes on Israel and that little sliver of land that's about the size of New Jersey. Saudi Arabia is 103 times the land mass of this little nation, and yet they want that little piece of land. Now your question is who does the land belong to? And so, if you're listening, if you could just get a piece of paper, let me show you the original abstract of title, because anytime there's a dispute over land, you you the original abstract of title, because anytime there's a dispute over land, you find the original title all right, whose land it wasn't given to, who bought it and how much of it. All of that said, all of that is in the world. Israel is the only nation on earth whose history and future is minutely recorded in the Bible. That's right, that's exactly right. We know the answers to that.
Speaker 3:
Here's seven points in the title deed. Point number one all land belongs to the Lord. There's no such thing as this land belongs to the United States. This land belongs to Europe. All land belongs to the Lord. The Bible says in Psalm 24, verse 1,. The earth is the Lord's in all of its fullness. He owns it. You've got to start there, because someone that says I don't believe in God, they're not going to believe in any of the rest of these. If you don't believe Genesis 1, you're not going to believe in any of the rest of these. If you don't believe Genesis 1-1, you're not going to believe anything else. So it belongs to him.
Speaker 3:
Number two as the creator, as the owner, god has the right to give it to whomever he pleases. He has the right to give it to whomever he pleases. He doesn't need United Nations vote, he doesn't need the President of the United States approval. He's the owner. He can give it to him whenever he pleases. Again, the Bible says in Psalm 115, verse 3, the Lord is sitting in his throne in heaven and he does whatever he pleases. He doesn't need anybody's advice. That's right.
Speaker 3:
Number three God has given the land to Abraham and to his descendants as an everlasting possession. It belongs to God and he chose to give it to Abraham and to Abraham's descendants. And he chose to give it to Abraham and to Abraham's descendants, of course. This is found in Genesis 12, verses 1 through 3. God said to Abram get out of your country, from your family, from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation, I will bless you and make your name great and you'll be a blessing. Here's the land. And the Bible says in that same chapter Abraham took Sarah's wife and all the possessions and they gathered the people whom they had acquired in Haran, that's, in the land of Canaan. They came to the land of Canaan and the Lord appeared to Abraham and said to your descendants, descendants, I will give you the land. And there Abraham built an altar and he worshiped the Lord. God gave him this, this wonderful land. Now, how much land.
Speaker 3:
The next chapter, chapter 13. God reiterates that covenant. He said to Abraham in chapter 13, verses 14, through and following lift your eyes and look to the places where you are northward, southward, eastward, westward, for all the land which you see, I will give to you and your descendants forever. Whoa, whoa, whoa. God will give to Abraham and to his descendants all the land. Now, when you look that up in the original language, all the land literally means all the land, all of it to you and your descendants. And it says I'll give it to you until you disobey me. No, no, no, no, no. He said I'll give it to you forever as an everlasting possession.
Speaker 3:
So the question is, which descendant of Abraham? Muslims, arabs say well, it's of course the Ishmael, because Abraham had two sons originally. One is the very first one from Hagar, ishmael, and then the second one, of course, was Isaac. Again, go back to the original title deed Genesis 17, verse 8. God says to Abram I give to you it's the fourth time he says it I give to you and your descendants after you the land which you are now a stranger, the land which you are now a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession.
Speaker 3:
God said to Abram as for Sarah, your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah will be your name and I'll bless her and give you a son by her, and she shall be a mother of nations. Kings of people shall come from her. Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said in his heart Shall a child be born to a man who's 100 years old and Sarah, who's 90 years old, bear a son. And Abraham said to God oh, that Ishmael might live before you Now. If that was the end of the Bible. If that was the last sentence in the Bible, yeah well, maybe it is Israel. I mean, abraham said over the issue might live.
Speaker 3:
But there's a next verse, verse 19. Verse 19 always follows verse 18. And I believe that's true in all translations. But verse 19 says Then God said no, sarah, your wife will bear you a son and you'll call his name Isaac. Now listen, I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I've heard you. I'll bless him and will make him fruitful, but my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this time next year. He wasn't even conceived yet and God already knew this was going to be the son, and he's going to be the son of a promise and therefore the title deed is passed to Abraham and his descendants. Number four, the descendant of Abraham that God chose to give the land to, was Isaac. We've already seen that in Scripture. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 3:
People would say that's Old Testament. That's Old Testament. Well, yes, so is Psalm 23. I notice we like that, especially in a funeral. Old Testament is just as inspired, just as truthful. If you want a New Testament verse.
Speaker 3:
Write down Galatians 4, verses 22, to the end of the chapter, the Bible says it was written that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondwoman, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh and he of the free woman through promise. Now we brethren, as isaac was, are children of promise, but as he was born according to the flesh, then persecuted him, who was born according to the spirit. So it is true even now. Isn't that true in the summer of 2024. Isn't that true in the summer of 2024? Nevertheless, what does the scripture say? Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman. They're not going to share the same land. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. That's what the Word of God says, dr Jackson, in Galatians 4.
Speaker 2:
Does that make sense to you? Oh yeah, Makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3:
The title deed was passed to Abraham and that Abraham's son was Isaac. Number five the title deed of the land passed from Isaac to the son, jacob. Again, the original title says in Genesis 25, 23,. Two nations are in your womb. Two people will be separated from your body. One people will be stronger than the other and the older shall serve the younger. You remember there's this battle between Jacob and Esau. Esau was a person of the flesh and so Esau got hungry. And you remember the story when Jacob said Swear to me this is Genesis 25, 33,. Swear to me this day. And he swore to him and he sold his birthright to Jacob. The older is serving the younger, just like God said would happen. Isaac called Jacob in his last years and said to Jacob May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you that you'll be an assembly of people. This title deed was passed from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob. So there's no question, the land belongs to the Jewish people. Number six Israel was given all the land of promise.
Speaker 3:
In each one of these scriptures there's nine different passages. That says I'm giving to you all the land. Well, the question is, how much land? Remember, israel is the only nation on earth whose boundaries have been determined in the Bible, if it belongs to God, and God gave them the land, of course he specified in the title deed, the Bible, what their boundaries would be on the east side and the west side, of course, is in Genesis 15, verse 18. You've got, oh well, here I'll just say a kind word. The ignorant people, they don't know any better, from the river to the sea, they don't realize that's scripture. According to the land of Israel In Genesis 15, 18, the northern boundary in Ezekiel 48, in the southern boundary, god said in Deuteronomy, chapter 11, to Moses every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours, from the wilderness in Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even to the western sea, shall be your territory. They don't know. That's in the word of God and it's specifically God's word to Israel. That's what he said. Well, if you look on the land, if you take those areas that are specified in scripture, jot them down on your map, it's a huge piece of land. Of course, all the land of Israel, it's Jordan, it's Syria, it's Lebanon, it's three-fourths of Iraq, the northern half of Saudi Arabia and the eastern third of Egypt, all of that land is Israel's land. Now, today, in 2024, they only live in about 5% of that land. I think it was Dr WA Christensen said, today they only have the hoof, but there's coming a day that they'll have the whole heifer. And that's true All of that land is theirs. And one last point on that's true All of that land is theirs. And one last point on that title, dave this land was given to the Jews in an unconditional covenant.
Speaker 3:
Now I wish we had time just to talk about the covenants in Scripture, because covenants are very important to God's people. There's the salt covenant, there's the shoe covenant. The most binding of all covenants, of course, is the blood covenant, and in Genesis 15, you'll see a blood covenant. When all of these animals are slain, they're split in two and usually two parties hold hands and walk in between that slain. They're split in two and usually two parties hold hands and walk in between that slain animal and it says may this happen to me if I break this covenant. However, when God did this in Genesis chapter 15 and reiterates it again in Genesis chapter 17, you'll notice in the scripture Abraham doesn't walk hand in hand with God. It is God who walks through this blood covenant.
Speaker 3:
God is saying this covenant is not based on your faithfulness, it's based on my faithfulness. And he says in Deuteronomy, chapter 7, verse 9, faithfulness. And he says in Deuteronomy, chapter 7, verse 9, therefore, know that the Lord, your God, is God, the faithful God, who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations, and those who love him and keep his commandments, he'll keep his covenant to a thousand generations. Well, the question has been asked. Well, how many generations has there already been since Abraham? There's been about 84 or 85. So we've got a long way to go to 1,000.
Speaker 2:
Well, let me interrupt you now, because that brings up a question what about the?
Speaker 3:
idea that, because Israel's idolatry and rebellion, god has rejected Israel and he's replaced it with the church. The greatest evidence that that cannot be true is the Word of God Romans 9, 10, and 11. I mean, paul asked the question has God rejected his own people, the nation of Israel? Of course not, he said. I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin, dr Jackson. Here's the issue If this is an everlasting covenant, what does everlasting mean?
Speaker 3:
If it's an unconditional, what does unconditional mean? If it's a two-sided, if? Whoa, oh. What about if salvation? What about if that blood covenant depended upon my faithfulness? No, what about if that blood covenant depended upon my faithfulness? No, it depends upon grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Yes, yes, I'm faithful. Yes, am I 100% perfect? No, oh, thank God, his covenants can be trusted because they're based on, not my faithfulness but His faithfulness. That's right. And here's the crux of the matter. If we cannot keep God's Word, or if we can't trust Him to keep His Word that he made to the Jews 4,000 years ago, then how can I trust Him to keep His Word that he makes to me 2,000 years ago on the? How can I keep him, trust him to keep his word that he makes to me 2,000 years ago, on the cross that's right, exactly right, exactly right.
Speaker 2:
Well now, what about this? Now, is this conflict with the Jews and the Arabs? Is it going, dr. Clore? Is that going to ever, ever end?
Speaker 3:
Yes, oh yes, it will come to an end. Israel is not just the geographic center, the spiritual center, the revelations, it's the peace center of the world. There is going to be peace among the Jews and the Arabs when, when? There will not be peace in the Middle East until there's peace in Jerusalem. And there'll never be peace in Jerusalem until the Prince of Peace literally comes back to Israel, to the city of Jerusalem, descends to the Mount of Olives, walks through the Easter gate, sits upon the throne. Then there'll be perfect peace. Again. The Word of God settles this in Isaiah, chapter 62.
Speaker 3:
The Bible says there's going to come a time when the lamb will lay down by the lion. Some people say, well, this has already been fulfilled. That's not been fulfilled. The only way a lamb can lay down with the lion is if the lamb is inside the lion. There's going to come a time that there'll be perfect peace on this earth when Jesus Christ oh, here's how the whole thing's going to end, dr Jackson the nations. The Bible says in Zechariah, chapter 12, that Jerusalem has been a stumbling block to the nations and it's going to continue to be so. More so the closer we get to the end of time. Nations will come against Israel and come against Jerusalem. We want this piece of land. And when the nations attack Israel because, believe it or not, scripture says that there will be a time when the world will turn against Israel as, like, israel is the aggressor, israel is the mean person. That's what's happening right now. World opinion is turning against Israel. Even America will turn its back on Israel. Israel will look for an ally. Can somebody help bring peace? And that's when a man, some leader, will come to the front who speaks of peace and everybody will assume he is a perfect person to bring peace. And he will say Jews, jews, go ahead and build your temple on the Temple Mount. Muslims, have your Dome of the Rock, you two can dwell together and the Jews will build the temple. All of this is recorded in Scripture.
Speaker 3:
The Bible says in 1st Thessalonians that this man of peace is called. Once he sees that the temple is built, he'll bring his capital, his cabinet, his offices into that temple and the Jews will say no, no, no, no, you can you? This is built for God. He says that's right and I am God. I have brought peace to you for the first time in history. Oh, no, you're not our God and the Jews will turn against him and all of his fury and hatred will turn against the Jewish people and he'll bring all the remaining nations to try to stomp out this nation of Israel. And just as it looks the darkest, jesus will come and the Bible says he will appear in the sky. This is in Revelation, chapter 21. What a great army.
Speaker 3:
Chapter 19 and 20 says the end of all battles will be the battle of Armageddon, and the one who will bring it to an end is Jesus Christ himself. And he will descend upon the Mount of Olives. And then the Bible says the Jewish people will look to him whom they have pierced. This is Zechariah, chapter 12. They will look upon him whom they have pierced. This is Zechariah, chapter 12. They will look upon him whom they have pierced and they will mourn that's Jesus, he's our Messiah.
Speaker 3:
Oh, we're the one that said you are not our Messiah. Please forgive us, please have mercy on us. And will he have mercy? Will those Jewish people be saved? Absolutely, because whoever calls on the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved. And the Bible says and one other scripture I'll close, dr Jackson Romans 11, verse 26, says and so all Israel will be saved. As the scripture says, the one who rescues will come from Jerusalem. He will turn away Israel from their ungodliness. This is my covenant with them and I will take away their sins. Praise the Lord, those Jewish people who are still alive will turn to him and be saved.
Speaker 2:
God keeps his promise, god keeps his covenant. Well, michael, michael, that's amazing. That's an amazing story and that's an amazing look at the whole story of the Bible in just 27 minutes. How did you do that?
Speaker 3:
oh, the word of God is so rich. If people would just pay attention to God's word and not the world's Word.
Speaker 2:
You're right. You're right. Well, michael, I want to thank you for being my guest today and I want to thank you for sharing that with me and my listeners, and I just appreciate your biblical expertise and your understanding of what's happening in the world through the lens, through the grid of the Holy Scriptures. Well, you're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson. My guest today is Dr Michael Clore, my good friend, and I thank you for listening in and hope you'll be back again next week and may the Lord bless you real good.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom. This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.
