Sustainable Travel Tips and Digital Nomad Life with Bri of the Travel Munchers Blog

In this episode, Kristen and Carol sit down with Bri, a digital nomad coach, sustainable travel content creator, and travel blogger. Bri talks about how she initially started blogging to keep her family and friends updated on her adventures while traveling. And over time, Bri became a certified travel agent and her blog evolved into a comprehensive ethical and sustainable travel website known as Travel Munchers, where she provides in-depth guides and recommendations for various destinations.

They discuss the concept of greenwashing, where companies falsely claim to be environmentally friendly or sustainable, highlighting the need for consumers to be discerning. They talk a bit about various aspects of sustainable travel, including eco-conscious practices, such as supporting local communities, minimizing waste, and choosing eco-friendly accommodations.

Throughout the episode, the conversation naturally shifts to everyone's favorite travel destinations, including the Nordic countries, renowned for their strong emphasis on sustainability and conservation efforts; Indonesia, including popular destinations like Bali, Lombok and and the Gili Islands; and other potential destinations, including Figi, Madiera, Zanzibar, Thailand, Laos, and Sri Lanka.


Mentions:

Blog: https://travelmunchers.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/travel_munchers/
Zanzibar aribnb
Independent "restaurants":  https://www.travelingspoon.com/
Zanzibar:  on google maps 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

Hi, welcome to our podcast, where Next Travel, with Kristen and Carol. I am Kristen and I am Carol, and we're two long-term friends with a passion for travel and adventure. Each episode, we interview people around the globe to help us decide where to go next. In this episode, we are meeting with Bree, the creator of the Travel Munchers blog. Bree is a digital nomad who is passionate about sustainable travel. We will discuss travel tips and hear her story and how she created a life of travel a reality. Enjoy, brie. Thank you so much and welcome to when Next podcast. We're so happy to have you and where are you calling in from today?

Speaker 2: 1:01

I'm actually in South Carolina. We are in the United States visiting my parents and it's been really nice being home, but it has been a crazy couple of weeks and I'm trying to get my head on straight for today All right, so you normally are based in Vienna.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yes, so the past seven or eight years Vienna has been home base, even though I haven't actually lived in Vienna the past two or three years. Oh, really Okay. So we had an apartment in Vienna and we actually just gave it up about a month ago and it's always been home base, so it's where we kind of returned to.

Speaker 2: 1:36

But my now fiance is actually a professional hockey player, so we move around depending on his season, and so we've been in Hungary, we've been in Austria, so we're kind of all over the place. Vienna has just been kind of our home base because we have had an apartment. But we kind of got to the point where we were like we're just never here, you know, and during season we're visiting his family or my family or we're traveling, and it just we kind of got to the point where like we are never here, why do we have it? So, yeah, about a month ago we packed all the stuff up to storage, moved some of it to his families and about two days later hopped on a plane to come home to the States.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Wow, you are living the dream. He's definitely has his plainest passion, which is a dream, I'm sure, for any athlete. Yes, and then you're a professional travel blogger, podcaster, right.

Speaker 2: 2:34

Yeah, it's kind of multiple things. So I'm a digital nomad coach, I'm a sustainable travel content creator and I have my own website and stuff as well. I love participating in podcasts. I just think they're just the most natural way to kind of have conversations with people and like really be authentic and genuine. So I hop on any podcast that comes my way because I just get so excited and I love your guys' podcasts.

Speaker 2: 2:59

So I was like yay this is going to be fun, but yeah. So I'm kind of just like an all encompassed travel, everything you said digital nomad coach and then sustainable something after that.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Sustainable travel content creator. So I partner with hotels or brands and create content for them. The only ones that I promote personally are ones who share my values and the same ethics and stuff, and you'll see them on my social media or on like my website and stuff. But I do content creation for other brands behind the scenes as well. So like UGC, but I like my. My true passion is creating the content for like hotels, tourism boards, travel industry people, stuff like that and what made you.

Speaker 1: 3:41

How did you start that Like uh and did you, I'm assuming, went to college or I don't know your history or your background.

Speaker 2: 3:48

So um, I I moved to Austria actually to get my master's degree in clinical and counseling psychology. Oh wow, we did a big shift in life. I fell in love with Europe and I decided I didn't want to go back to the States and I just really wanted to stay in Europe. That means that I had to find work. So I started working in international schools and I also had met my partner about I don't know five or six years ago now and was moving with him. But I realized that, you know, travel is just my passion in life and it's what I really enjoy and I want to.

Speaker 2: 4:26

I could talk about it all day long and you know it was just something that I never get tired of, and one of the main things was that I started my website and that actually started as just a way to keep family and friends at home updated, because you know like you get the same question 20 times and you kind of start being less enthusiastic about answering it for the hundredth time. Yes, so I was like I have an idea, I'll just keep a travel blog diary type thing. So that's how it actually started.

Speaker 1: 4:54

Wow, so quickly on the blog. Did you do a blog? And the only reason I'm asking is my 19 year old daughter is hardcore on classes and learning about blogs right now. It's so cute, she's super into it. But so you blogged before the podcast.

Speaker 2: 5:09

Yeah, I was blogging. That was the first thing I did and honestly, it was just about keeping family and friends up to date so that, like you know, when they wanted to check or if I was busy, because one of the main things was that they were always like well, where are you now? So I was just like here's my blog. Guys like you can keep up to date with me. So it genuinely just started out as a way to keep family and friends up to date so that I wasn't answering the same questions over and over.

Speaker 2: 5:33

But then when COVID hit, vienna was hit really hard. I mean, it was one of the worst in the world. It's so strict and like only you know, only within like the last couple of months have they like removed almost all restrictions. So three years, it was insane. But my partner was in a different country. So being apart was really hard for me, especially during covid, and I just wasn't enjoying the school that I was working at and it was just really, really sad. So I knew something needed to change and I realized that I wanted to just be able to move with him. But I'm someone who needs, like some sense of stability and security and purpose in life.

Speaker 2: 6:12

And, um, one of my colleagues actually found my blog and she's like you know you're really good at like writing and like expressing and like giving people information because she saw how many people would be like, have you been to this place or can you tell me about this place? And again, it was just too many people were asking me for recommendations and a lot of the times it was about similar places. So I'd be scrolling back in conversation like hitting copy paste, copy paste or like coming up with new things, and she's like, why don't you just start writing about actual itineraries and reviews and stuff, and that way you can just send people to that. So it kind of transformed to just a travel blog that I created an actual website and it became Travel Munchers, which is my brand, and it has the full review of places that we go.

Speaker 2: 7:02

So you know, I talk about accommodation, transportation, places to eat, things to do, what to see, all of that kind of stuff, so that, like, if you're visiting a certain place, you can have like a full guide and recommendations. So it just became something that I was really interested in. Where did the name? Do you eat? Eating wise? I'm a foodie. I like we always joke that half the time I pick places because I want to go eat, and I actually just recently found out that my mom told me that that's how my parents picked their honeymoon. My dad picked it based on like their food.

Speaker 2: 7:34

So I was like I'm, I'm just like him, apparently. So yeah, I just I liked I don't know how I came up with the name, it just came to me one day, but I was just like, I was in, like the slogan was kind of like munching my way around the globe, yeah, so yeah it just kind of became that.

Speaker 2: 7:55

But then I realized that you know, like in order to move with him, I also needed something to have a bit more of an income. And I realized that I was just getting asked constantly about travel and people would want me to almost like plan their whole travel for them. So I kind of looked into becoming a travel agent. So I actually became an independent certified travel agent for a while. Did you hear about Fora Travel? Did you do it through that? No, I did it through Archer. I don't know about.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Fora. I looked into it and I get emails every day. Oh, get educated about this location, get educated about this and you have to like sell at least like $10,000 with a trip a year.

Speaker 2: 8:33

That's what you told me about, yeah, so I was just wondering if that's what you did.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Yeah, no, I was with Archer and there's no like minimum or anything like that. You can kind of do it at your own pace, because a lot of people do multiple things and then once they really get in the groove, they quit whatever it is that they're doing on the side and kind of move into that. So I was doing that for a while and it just it really fit in with what I was doing because I was already helping people with itineraries and it just kind of made sense, you know. And then the content creation came in really organically. Actually it was very strange.

Speaker 2: 9:07

I actually had brands reach out to me first, which is uncommon. It's usually the other way around you build your portfolio and then you go hunting for brands and stuff. But so I got very lucky that I actually had a couple reach out to me in the beginning who were like we love your pictures and like would you be interested in trying out this product and maybe like doing some stuff because it feels like it's on point with our brand and our vibes. And that's how I got into content creation and I was very fortunate my dad was actually a photographer.

Speaker 1: 9:37

So I grew up with photos. Yes, your photos are out of this world.

Speaker 2: 9:40

So professional.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Yeah, I was wondering, if you have like a second photographer, do you actually do it all yourself?

Speaker 2: 9:46

nope, it's all us um. I grew up with my dad doing photography, so I learned a lot, and you know um, so I think I've always really enjoyed photography and it's always just been like a fun passion and then. But I'm still learning like I'm still always taking courses and trying to like hone my skills and learn new techniques, because some of the things people do these days are just absolutely insane.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Do you do the drone thing at all? Okay, Because some of you are stuff like how did she get those pictures?

Speaker 2: 10:17

Yes, we have a drone and, other than my laptop, it's my absolute favorite piece of technology. I cannot endorse a drone more.

Speaker 1: 10:26

My husband was talking about. He wants to get one and I'm like what? And like you want?

Speaker 2: 10:28

one. Yeah, you do, I promise, and yeah, and my fiance loves it like he just wants to take it all the time. So once I got that, it became much easier to get him into content creation on vacations, because he enjoys flying the drone yeah that's a good thing.

Speaker 2: 10:43

So, yeah, actually I just had some brands that reached out, got into. It kind of was just like oh people do this, you know, and I never wanted to get into like the influencing necessarily. I just really liked the content creation. But I did realize that there are some brands who I do share the same values and ethics with and those are products that I would just recommend anyway. So anything you ever see me promoting is something that I would personally use. I refuse to promote something on my sites that I don't personally use or agree with. I will create content for them as UGC behind the scenes it's a job but nothing on my sites will ever be something that I think is unethical, isn't sustainable, eco-friendly, something that I wouldn't personally be using.

Speaker 1: 11:30

Have you heard of and maybe you'll get into this when we get into some products specific, but I think it was at Lush or they have like the bar shampoo. I bought it at Disney World.

Speaker 2: 11:40

I've been using them for years.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Yeah, so the shampoo that the conditioner is a little bit not as smooth, but I've tried it for traveling. Yeah, the shampoo really sets you up and I see, for traveling it really makes sense, because then you don't have that liquid Right.

Speaker 2: 12:00

And I actually have a cork container that they go in because they can stain. Some of them can stain like depending on what you want to put the bar in. So I actually have a lush cork container. So every time it runs out I just put a new one in and then it like sits in there. So it helps like dry it out and absorbs, but nothing gets stained.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Oh, that's what I was thinking, Cause like it, like sticks to my shower and I'm like you're trying to pry it off and I'm like this is so challenging. We need like a. I have.

Speaker 2: 12:21

I have a little metal wire shelf, but then I but I have a cork container that it actually fits in because it comes right off.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:30

I don't even know what this is. I love Lush and their shampoo bars are fantastic. I talk a lot about like single use plastics and getting rid of as much of it as possible, so very pro the shampoo bars.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Okay. Well, should we start to talk about like what is, what is sustainable travel and what's your passion around that?

Speaker 2: 12:51

Well, my passion is I live on this planet. I mean a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 12:56

How can you not be passionate about it?

Speaker 2: 12:57

I'm just like well, I live here, so I kind of want to keep it going.

Speaker 2: 13:02

There's a lot of like different terms out there.

Speaker 2: 13:04

You'll hear, you know, eco travel, green travel, sustainable travel, all these different terms and they're kind of like umbrella under sustainable travel, and one of the definitions that I like to say is, basically, sustainable travel means to leave behind a positive impact, smaller energy for your footprint influence, progressive change before, during and after your travels.

Speaker 2: 13:30

So basically, leave it better than when you got there, and this is about the environment, the culture, the people, all of it conservation, reducing your negative impact, and to really utilize, replenishing resources, because one of the main things that we're finding is resources are just being used up at a rate that we can't keep track, like keep up with, and this has been a problem for years. I mean, this is nothing new, but I would say that, like, sustainability has become more trending in the recent years, which is good and bad, because anything that comes with a trend you can also have issues with, obviously. So I'm really happy that it's becoming fashionable to be sustainable and eco-friendly, because more people are becoming aware of the issues, but then you also have the problems that come with it, and one of the things that I talk about on my site is actually greenwashing, and it's I mean it's a problem across the board in all industries, but with tourism it's also kind of really stepped up in the last few years.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Is it like money laundering? Actually the whole thing. As you're taking a sip of water, it totally reminds me of backpacking. I'm actually planning a women's backpacking trip, and I take kids out too with Girl Scouts, and it's always like leave no trace behind. We have all these things about and then we pick up 10 pieces of trash everyone and try to do all that good stuff.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I love it. A lot of my cousins are backpackers and hikers and one of them actually is going van life full-time. Another one really wants to go van life and like the no trace behind is a really big thing, with our family and we pick up trash and we always do that as well, and so, yeah, I mean like those are little things you can do on a daily basis that can make a difference.

Speaker 1: 15:15

Yeah, absolutely, that's great. So, and I also definitely want to dive into sustainable travel, and also, I was so curious not to divert we can tackle one or the other is Vienna. And then, what made you stay in Vienna it sounds like you liked it and what kept you as a home base there?

Speaker 2: 15:33

I'd actually been to Vienna one time before, when I was 14, for the People to People Sports Ambassador Programs, which is basically the Junior Olympics.

Speaker 1: 15:41

What did you do?

Speaker 2: 15:43

I went for basketball then. So I was playing basketball and volleyball and I got invited for basketball first, so I went for basketball but I ended up playing volleyball in college. So, yeah, it was kind of a weird split for me, but, um, I loved it. I just I really liked being in Europe, and I mean anywhere in Europe is a decent base, because you could I mean eight years ago especially you could get flights for like 20 euros, 60 euros. Yeah, it was amazing Like it was so easy to travel around Europe and having a base there and I just I fell in love with like the more laid back culture and you know, like just having so many different cultures around as well that I could hop like we went on a day trip to Slovakia or Slovenia, or you could hop over to Germany, like my parents called me one time and they're like, what are you doing? I was like, oh, I'm going to Italy for the weekend and they're like.

Speaker 2: 16:37

I'm sorry, what was the sentence that you just said? And I was like, oh yeah, I'm just, I'm hopping over to Italy for the weekend and like over, this is just completely normal.

Speaker 1: 16:44

And it's like going to Tahoe for the weekend, right, or something. It's just like, yeah, yeah it's, I'm Swedish and I'm first generation here and so all of my Swedish relatives, like my cousins, will come over and they're like, oh yeah, and they just go all summer all over the countries. And I was just curious where that was, along with the other places that you're you're visiting. I mean, it's all close and how cheap that is.

Speaker 2: 17:05

It's amazing it's gotten more expensive in the last couple of years, especially after COVID, but when I first moved seven, eight years ago, it was ridiculously inexpensive. I mean, considering you know, like a flight from the South to the North in the States is 300. I was changing countries for less than a hundred. It was madness. And so like I think I just fell in love with the ease of being able to travel and have all these experiences and new cultures and new food and it was just so simple to hop over for the weekend and I really loved that and I had a great time in Austria for my master's degree and you know, the year after and I just knew I didn't really want to come back. Like I do love the states, I love coming home for a lot of the simplicities, because I do feel like it's just your own culture is really easy when you are gone, so like it's very refreshing. But over the last few years like there are certain things that just make me I don't feel like I could live in the states right now.

Speaker 1: 18:03

And what I mean. I know it's crazy when you said we won't go into politics.

Speaker 2: 18:08

Yeah, I'm not a huge political person and I don't get into it very often.

Speaker 2: 18:12

There's only one subject matter, which is completely fine, because I will stand by this for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2: 18:17

But when I heard that you know, like the Roe versus Wade was being overturned, and for me I like I cried that morning when I read that headline.

Speaker 2: 18:26

I really did, because I was like we're just going back to the 50s and I just felt so hurt as a woman that I just I never think that anyone has the right to tell someone else what they can and can't do with their body, and it's just for me it was such a step back that I was just like I I just don't know if I could live there right now because I am not someone who's OK with someone else having control over my body, so, and it's it's really the only political matter that I've ever cared about or ever gotten into, so but that that really is one of the big things for me that I just felt so devastated by that news that I was just like I have no interest in moving back.

Speaker 2: 19:07

I love to visit, I love coming home, because it really is just like I can rest, I can kind of be a kid again and be home, you know, kind of escape the reality of adulthood every now and then. But I don't think I could live here because things like that, even if it never came up for me, it's just, it's kind of like in the back of my mind that you know I may not have control over that and I'm just not okay with it.

Speaker 1: 19:34

So yeah, I was thinking about yeah, do you, do you have like a dual citizenship at all? Or, uh, travel, how do you have the? You know the length of travel?

Speaker 2: 19:44

I have EU residency. Oh um, how'd you get that? So my partner and I actually have a civil partnership and we've had that for two, two years now when you live together or something. So it's basically like it was originally invented for same-sex marriages. So you have all the same rights. It's just not a legal marriage and it also has like a timeline. So, like it, it goes for five years and then it basically will either be annulled or you re do it oh, that's interesting yeah, is it here?

Speaker 1: 20:22

is it overseas, is it?

Speaker 2: 20:24

yeah, so it's in the eu. So basically I have residency and I can live and work anywhere in the EU. So when he was moving, it really helps because I can go anywhere with him and not have to worry about it because I'm an EU spouse.

Speaker 1: 20:37

Oh, so where's he from? Originally he's.

Speaker 2: 20:40

Hungarian.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Hungarian Okay, oh, that's great. How did you?

Speaker 2: 20:43

guys meet At an international school. I actually coached volleyball there and was working in the counseling center. And I coached volleyball with his mom a year before I ever met him and I had no idea this was his mom. I knew his mom, his dad and I knew his sister before I met him. And then I started working a summer camp and we got partnered together in one month. One month I had no idea, because he does not sound Hungarian. He grew up in American international school, so he has zero accent. And one month after working with him every single day, I heard him speaking Hungarian and I turned to my friend and I was like, how does he know Hungarian? And she looked at me like I was the dumbest blonde on the planet. And she goes he's Hungarian, that's his mom and I was just like I have known her for a year. I worked with her and I had no idea.

Speaker 1: 21:35

I had no idea what a great story that's awesome what kind of summer camp was it like? A sports summer camp?

Speaker 2: 21:42

it's a sports summer camp, yeah, for kids. Yeah, oh fun. And we still do it every year because his mom runs it. So like we'll go back this summer, and next summer is the only year that we're kind of like we're not so sure because, you know, after hockey season we're gonna have like an elopement destination type wedding, and then I I've always not really wanted a wedding, I've just wanted a honeymoon so I'm trying to finagle like a month and a half honeymoon, which you can do with a hockey player husband, because he has three months off, four months off.

Speaker 2: 22:14

So that's kind of my goal and we'll see how the timeline works.

Speaker 1: 22:19

I'm sorry. It looks like your life is the honeymoon already. People keep saying that to me. I'm sure it's hard logistically, but yet very rewarding.

Speaker 2: 22:30

There's pros and cons, like every lifestyle, and like this is one of the things that I talk about in my digital nomad academy is I'm extremely transparent with people, and especially my community, and I'm like it is not all sunshine, rainbows, sparkles, unicorns, like it's really not, like there are a lot of hard things and I really want people to know those because if you go into it thinking this is just going to be a vacation, every single day, you are in for a rude awakening and you're going to struggle. So, while there are so, so many benefits and for me they really do outweigh the negatives it's very important to be transparent and realistic that there are definitely negatives. There are complications, you know, know life is not roses all the time. Like there are, there are issues and struggles, but for me it does.

Speaker 1: 23:17

The positives do outweigh it well and it seems like the positives are I don't know if they're obvious or not, but you know just the freedom and being able to financially sustain yourself and have the ability to kind of go and do whatever you want and, of course, that kind of what are some of the negatives that were like ahas to you that you didn't really think about until it happened?

Speaker 2: 23:39

Well, and if they?

Speaker 1: 23:39

reoccur or they're one offs like you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Just kind of the yeah, no. I mean, one of the things is all the logistics with paperwork and government. So like I am very fortunate that my fiance slash legal partner is a EU citizen and therefore I have it for five years and I don't have to worry about it. But I've had four types of visas and the visa process is sometimes a nightmare. I mean, as much as I've enjoyed Vienna, like I will tell you pretty much the same thing that every other expat is going to tell you it is not fun having to go into these buildings.

Speaker 2: 24:13

And you would think that people who work in government buildings with foreigners and expats would expect you know to be patient or have to find a common. They don't Like my German's good, but like not on a level that I'm okay signing legal documents that I can't comprehend. You know, like I'm a fine print kind of girl and legal documents are not something I take lightly and you know, going into these things I just don't have the vocabulary for legal terminology, and so I would say that you've got to be patient. You've got to realize that like the logistics and stuff of all of that is going to be a nightmare, and if you're constantly moving, you constantly need new visas. You have to do it in a whole nother country and you know, if you're moving every three months six months, depending on what it is you you think it's like, okay, it's a process and then it's done, but like you also need to prep for these, usually in advance. So sometimes they're back to back and it just it can be very exhausting yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Right, I see the people that like digital moments that want to go oh here we are. Like that just sounds. You know, only go through that pain once every six months or three months or something.

Speaker 2: 25:27

Well, and people have, you know like, especially Americans, we have about 90 days free in a lot of countries. Ok, so the way that a lot of people do it and I'm not condoning this because it's technically not legal you can go, you can vacation, you can stay for three months. You're just not supposed to be working.

Speaker 2: 25:44

So a lot of people have been doing it that way, where they go in on a tourist visa and they work remotely because you're not working for a company there, you're not being paid into a company there, but the way that a lot of countries are doing this is you're using their infrastructure, you're doing all of this and you are working while you're in the country. You could get caught and fined like or kicked out, so it is something that people really do need to take into consideration, and a lot of countries are now creating these visas for digital nomads to solve this problem yeah, what's the difference?

Speaker 1: 26:17

do you know what the difference is between that and the regular one? Well, with a tourist visa, you're not supposed to work yeah, but I remembered reading something about and you know, so we can oh, I'm almost like I want to call you after it's interesting. But, um, I read something and it was about the digital nomad that they were encouraging it. They wanted people to be able to increase their travel.

Speaker 2: 26:39

It was something positive, a lot of countries are doing it because it's a way for them to actually encourage people to come and boost their economy, because a lot of people like americans, like southeast asia is now such a popular place to go because our money goes so much further there but we are helping to boost the economy if you do it in the right way and if you're paying for the visa. You're paying for that. You're using their infrastructure.

Speaker 2: 27:04

They are getting something out of it in return and they're making it to where you can live and work there and if you stay longer, you do help. Do help the economy. So a lot of countries are actually working on this and one of the things that I'm actually working on my website is a digital nomad database and I'm starting to do articles on different countries and different cities and the types of visas that they are putting out.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Yeah, I should send you that article. It was really good. I'd have to look it up. I think I may have sent it to you, and then I screenshotted some of the pictures and sent it to Carol. Yeah, this summer I took my two kids to South Korea and Bali and just it was within three weeks going back and forth, and I think actually the hardest was the COVID test and trying to get in and out of South Korea. I can imagine you had quite the. I mean things are changing now. Covid is still around, but I'm sure things are a little easier now.

Speaker 2: 27:59

We had some. We had some very close, close encounter. I don't know what. What time am I looking for?

Speaker 2: 28:06

Close calls with some of the COVID tests not coming back because we just had to get them so much and thankfully we never got denied Like we got really lucky. But I mean 20 minutes before having to leave type of close call at the counter, yeah, Very, very stressful. So I'm glad that that's kind of going away again. But no, like my, my database is more about like all the qualifications, requirements, the paperwork, what you're going to need, who's allowed in resources to call and get more information or links to the actual application, stuff like that. And I do it based on like continent, so it's broken up into different continents and I'm I'm working my way through the country, so I have maybe on there now and I have a list of about 20, something that I still need to do the research, for Cause it is time consuming.

Speaker 2: 28:56

Oh, this is amazing. Yeah, I think it would just be great to have like a resource for like a one stop shop. So if people are like, oh, I really want to do this, but I'm not sure where, you can kind of look and see what might be one of the better places for you.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Right, and it's what's your website that someone who's interested would could look that up uh, wwwtravelmuncherscom pretty simple, yeah and um, I have like a whole section on um digital nomads, so like that's also broken down for different countries more in depth. But then I have like the database and you can go into that. I have all of my travel reviews, which was broken down into countries. I have a sustainability one that I'm kind of starting to slowly build up. I think there's like ethical animal tourism and greenwashing and stuff on there. I have so many articles that just haven't been published yet.

Speaker 1: 29:42

It's kind of a catch up game. Ok, so for our audience, if we can go back to greenwashing, can you define?

Speaker 2: 29:50

that audience. If we can go back to um, greenwashing, can you define that? It's just, yeah, I can ask. Yeah, no problem. So greenwashing is basically when a company or brand says that they are sustainable or ethical in ways that they're actually not. It's basically a way to be like, hey, we care about the environment, but they're not actually fulfilling those practices. You know, or maybe they're doing some very like surface level things, but then there's so much more that they're actually causing harm. And so, because it's becoming more fashionable to be eco-friendly, a lot of places are hopping on board trying to be like oh, like we're green. And it's like, but what is? A lot of carbon offsets or something. And a lot of places are hopping on board trying to be like, oh, like we're green and it's like, but what?

Speaker 1: 30:32

is a lot of carbon offsets or something.

Speaker 2: 30:35

And a lot of these programs actually don't do anything. So, like you really need to look into what the practices are that they're doing. So one of the main things that I tell people is those who truly are ethical, eco-friendly, green, whatever will be very transparent about it. They will have information on their website about the actual practices that they are doing. They're not just going to say, oh, we care and we're doing this. They're going to be like this is how we're doing it and this is what we're still working on. So if you ever see a brand, a hotel, a company that is like these are the practices and they list out specific things that they do, that's a great sign, and the ones that have we still need to work on this are even better, because they're being upfront and transparent about the problem areas that they still want to improve on, and for me, that's huge. I will still support people who are like we're doing what we can. We're not there yet, but we're going to keep working on it and I would still support those businesses.

Speaker 1: 31:35

Right, I think United Airlines had something this whole new fund and initiative and they were teaming up with a couple of other airlines. It was in their little magazine about they're trying to solve some problems. How can air travel actually be less, have less of a carbon impact, and it sounds like a big struggle. It seemed very authentic. But you know, we'll see.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Yeah, airlines will. It'll be a slow process and I mean, like baby steps are still progress, but like I'm always cautious when it's these really big ones, because I want, I want the details. I want you to actually, step by step, show me what it is that you're doing, because a lot of them, you know, make, they make these grand gestures or these big promises, but nothing really comes out of it. So and I and I haven't seen what you're talking about, so maybe they are, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 32:24

I would need to do the research. It was something with their fuel or something yeah, and then, oh yeah, I think it was like making fuel from, ideally, plastics, but I don't think that was it. What about, like train travel versus air travel? Have you, like, really looked at?

Speaker 2: 32:41

that at all. Train travel is much more sustainable, actually. So the worst is by far flying like by far flying is the worst that you can do, Versus by far flying like by by far flying is the worst that you can do. And I always tell people like the best is when you're in cities, walk, bike and then public transport. If you can walk or bike, golden. You're not contributing at all, you know, and I personally think it's just a better way to see the city anyway, because I like getting lost on streets and seeing different things and, like you, never know what you're going to stumble upon if you're just walking uh but I get that like, if you're going from destination to destination, but public transport and that's one of the things that Europe is just great for, especially Vienna.

Speaker 2: 33:21

Vienna has incredible public transportation, so, uh, definitely public transportation, and then, if not a car, and then flying's the worst. You can't get from country to country, necessarily when it's on different continents, obviously, without flying. And I'm not telling people not to fly. Like you have to fly, I fly, I'm never going to stop flying because I have to fly to get to different, like I have family on different continents, like that's never going to change. So, but there's other ways that you can offset it in your daily life, daily practices or other things that you can do to try to like help combat that, you know, and it's never about perfection.

Speaker 1: 34:00

What would you say are the top couple, that like two or three that someone can do?

Speaker 2: 34:04

Like on a daily or more travel focused.

Speaker 1: 34:06

Well, actually daily seems even better for anyone know, and then and then travel focus too, I guess.

Speaker 2: 34:12

So for me. I refuse plastic in any way, shape or form. As much as I can. I have a lot. Yes, I got my yeah, you got this.

Speaker 2: 34:22

This kind of plastic's okay, like the you know, so uh, reusable water bottles is a huge, huge one, like an absolute huge one, um, one that a lot of people don't think about is, you know, like the reusable ice things, so that you don't have to keep using water and you can keep, oh yeah, little ice cubes. That actually helps more than you think it does, not more than just a an ice maker in a fridge.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Oh, but it's so. It's like it's in plastic, right, but it you, just you reuse this something as well.

Speaker 2: 34:51

I know the like. The initial ones are plastic based, but like, then they have some that are not like silicone type things, and you just freeze them and it works like an ice cube wait why?

Speaker 1: 35:01

why isn't a regular ice maker like an?

Speaker 2: 35:04

ice cube.

Speaker 1: 35:04

You use a lot of water but you're gonna drink the water right Then?

Speaker 2: 35:08

Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah. I guess. But anyway, I just thought, like the showers and like how much plants and how much you wash versus dishwasher, versus hand washing and different things Cold water, wash and laundry.

Speaker 1: 35:24

Are you into that?

Speaker 2: 35:27

Yes, for the most part. And the other thing is that we don't use like dryers or anything. We hang dry everything in.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Europe.

Speaker 2: 35:33

So a lot less electricity is being used. That's a common thing there. We have like solar power, wind power, like all of that stuff as well. Like reusable bags I only have cloth bags, like there's no plastic bags anywhere- yeah, that's kind of more common now here. It is. I think the ice cube would be hard to do.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Yeah, metal straws, although, man, my daughter has those and we have all these cleaners and she's cleaning. It's like kind of a pain, but it's better, you do have to clean it.

Speaker 2: 36:12

But I will tell you that when I was traveling through Southeast Asia, every single time I pulled out my straws, employees and workers were like wow, thank you. That's amazing, because they have such a problem with plastic and trash in the oceans and stuff that like when they see tourists come with it, they are so appreciative. And we had, like you know, glass containers that we would take sometimes like if we had leftovers or stuff like that, and you know so we weren't using a lot of things.

Speaker 2: 36:34

So a lot of places now have, you know, ones that are like compost and like will decompose quickly, so not plastic anymore which is really good. Do you see styrofoam anywhere? The styrofoam is really, really bad for the environment Really bad yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:48

I feel like that's fading out. I was also thinking travel wise, because the euro right the url is huge, I know I always get. Your rail is really good and stay at hostels and do all that kind of stuff. That's kind of.

Speaker 2: 37:00

I don't know how I feel about hostels. I don't know if they necessarily help that much. Um, they're getting more expensive now and a lot of the times the people aren't locals, it's like expats or someone who has come to open the hostel or something of the sorts, you know oh, I don't know how much a hostel really helps local businesses or cultures.

Speaker 2: 37:22

I mean, yes, if the people stay there year-round and they're paying their taxes and all that kind of stuff, it's basically the same as like a regular citizen, as long as their citizens have actually paying the taxes and stuff. But my biggest thing is absolutely, like take local tours. Shop at local markets. If you need to get souvenirs, shop at like local little stalls and stuff. Don't go to the big chains. Avoid big chain restaurants. Don't stay at large hotels. Like anything you can do to promote your money. Going to locals directly is obviously going to be a huge benefit.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Yeah, absolutely. Where, would you say, are your top places that you've been? That is the most sustainable in terms of countries or places that you've enjoyed Well, all of like.

Speaker 2: 38:11

The nordic countries are leaps and bounds ahead of the world, like I've seen in norway, sweden they, they really are like it's especially iceland. It's really how so? Oh, it would be a very nothing there well, we heard about the recycling. They have a lot of like the natural resources as well to have alternative energy sources so like good thermal and stuff. So I will say that it's going to be easier to make that transition because they have so many alternative like they can do solar water, wind and geothermal. They got it all.

Speaker 2: 38:48

So, it's not that hard to transition for them, but they were doing it years and years before it started to become like a countries need to start doing this. You know, like they were already on their way and I think, in like the next year or so. I think it's insane. I want to say 2025 was when it was going to be like 98, 99% of the country was on alternative energy sources or something I mean out of this world. Crazy what they're doing over there. So, yeah, I would say the nordic countries are just leaps and bounds on a completely different level compared to the rest of the world absolutely, and I didn't know also if we wanted to touch upon based on that.

Speaker 1: 39:27

Well, maybe you want to pick um iceland, or maybe vienna or a, a place where there's some hidden gems of places that you know that if you're touring you could Google and look it up. But some things that were hidden gems that you kind of found out when you were there, that were places that you'd recommend or that you'd love to go back and see.

Speaker 2: 39:48

For sustainable travel and like eco things or just in general, because those are very different, like I've been to a lot of places that are not eco focused that I love and like. Again, it depends on how you travel. So, like, as long as you are being sustainable and you are contributing to locals and not the larger corporations, you're still making a difference. And a lot of places really rely on tourism, which is why so many people are like well, if you really cared about the environment, you wouldn't travel. And that's not true, because so many countries like their whole entire livelihood is tourism. So if you took that away, like, they just wouldn't be able to survive. But it's how you do it and what you do while you're there that truly matters to survive.

Speaker 1: 40:31

but it's how you do it and what you do while you're there that truly matters. And have you heard of this Brie it's called? Oh, I shouldn't have it it's. It's some kind of website where you go to and you're being a foodie, where it said, like you go and you, it'll tell you all the different places where, like this, independent mother will make food for you. And we had a gentleman from Turkey that we interviewed. He said it was the best place he went to in Istanbul. It was like four hours at this woman's house and they said what she just made whatever she cooked in front of them and made it like. So that's seems very sustainable and really supporting the local. But there's a website that I came across, an Instagram, that they put people together for wherever you're going to visit where all these like independent restaurants are, they're probably not like truly restaurants.

Speaker 2: 41:17

I don't know one about food, so if you come up with that, send it to me later. I do know there's an app and it's called Happy Cow, which is more like vegan, vegetarian, like locally produced food and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 41:31

So I know Happy Cow is another really great one, just simply because it's. You know they use local resources, local produce. It's from local people as well, and it's vegan and vegetarian based, which is a struggle because my fiance is a carnivore to his dying days, but you know, I still promote it. Yes, are you vegan?

Speaker 2: 41:55

I'm not but I could be Um, so I I did. I was vegan for a while, uh, without actually realizing it, or vegetarian for a while, without ever realizing it, and then I did it for about six or seven months, purposely Um. And then we had a birthday at like the steakhouse and I was like I like steak, so I will, I can do it either way. Like I am not someone who needs meat, I enjoy meat and I'm not oblivious as to the negatives that come with it.

Speaker 1: 42:26

I think there's a lot to be said about, about me. I am a meat eater and you know I mean I, but I'm healthy fruits, vegetables, all that good stuff, for sure as well. So what would you say are your top places? I guess that you were ahas, that you really liked both just regular, maybe top two and sustainable Also indonesia like I just absolutely love indonesia.

Speaker 2: 42:49

I would move there in a heartbeat if I could um where exactly? You know that I'm not sure. Um, I haven't explored all of the islands that I want to get to yet, so, like island hopping, I think so something other than bali, right, that's in indonesia.

Speaker 1: 43:04

I mean, I loved bali like I really loved bali.

Speaker 2: 43:07

I do think it's becoming very touristy, but like there is a reason for it, like I get why it's becoming more touristy, and but this is one of those places that relies on tourism a lot, so I don't want to tell people not to go well no, but I've always been wondering why only bali?

Speaker 1: 43:22

because there are so many other islands. But you, you, you have some knowledge that there are other great places in indonesia to visit oh, for sure, for sure, and I want to learn about those yeah. What's one of them? At least one or two.

Speaker 2: 43:35

Oh goodness, I would have to like pull them up, and I also always feel like I butcher pronunciation. I know it's okay.

Speaker 2: 43:44

I like I'm like I have to spell it out or show people on a map and I'm like, look at this and, to be honest, I think if I was going to move move, though I would probably live. But it's another really popular expat place. You know, it's definitely growing and more people are moving over there, and Southeast Asia is definitely a place that you just get so much more for your money over there, so it is really easy.

Speaker 2: 44:06

But you also need to keep in mind that locals can't always afford the same things that you can, so you also don't want to go in and like take over you know, so, like some people are kind of starting, there's a bit of backlash starting to happen with all these people moving to southeast asia and so if you do just kind of be conscious of that and make sure you're still trying to support the locals and local businesses and stuff and don't contribute to the chains, because a lot of tourism or tourists go and they're like they see something familiar so they want to go there like which blows my mind. I'm like you're in a foreign country. Why wouldn't you want to try all new, different things that you've never had before? But some people are like that's already past their comfort zone. They're like I'm here, I want something reliable, um, but like yeah, I'm trying to think like I think you should also check out laos.

Speaker 1: 44:53

Um, my employees have been in thailand for five months and he we had to go to Laos for a week to renew his visa and he said it was amazing. It was clean, there was digital nomads working the transfer, that high-speed trains, it was crazy inexpensive.

Speaker 2: 45:09

So, sri, Lanka is also.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Actually Sri Lanka. I know I have a client that actually is from there and he said I don't know if it was there or the island right next to it. Literally he said it's more beautiful than Hawaii and he took his two young kids there this past I think winter or something like that and they were blown away. I mean, he was, you know, but he's, he was saying that that was a great place. And then I talked to this one gal. I did my podcast with her and she, uh, has a a company, but she, when she was younger, surfed and she went to. It was outside of long poc, l-o-m-b-o-k and it was the gilly islands we actually might be doing the gilly islands for part of our honeymoon I was gonna suggest, yeah, uh like the cook islands, french polynesia, fiji, then head over to the gilly island.

Speaker 1: 45:58

I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 2: 45:59

I'm like I'm sure you're going there. It's one. It's one of them. I basically just want to island hop for the honeymoon because I love the tropics and a lot of the year we're stuck inland and cold and I don't like cold. Um so, and my fiance is a trooper because he's like, yeah, most of the year we're where he has to be, you know right yeah, like so honeymoon is fully me and we're going to the tropics the whole time awesome.

Speaker 1: 46:27

I want to see and hear all about that one because that, yeah, the there I can't remember what specific island, but she, I, she couldn't find it and I found it for her and she was like yes, this is it. Look at that. I was thinking. I'm like I wonder if you're gonna do that, because, yeah, the Gilead.

Speaker 2: 46:41

Islands are really, really beautiful and like French Polynesia, and I actually have some friends that I met through like the online world who are doing basically van life but on a sailboat and are going all through like French Polynesia and then they're gonna move over to a new set once they're done, but like it's incredible to see and so, yeah, I'm I'm definitely excited for the island bring your SPF after that have last and then so.

Speaker 1: 47:09

So you guys have moved out of Vienna and I know you're just home temporarily. Where did you move to? What's your? Are you like in Africa?

Speaker 2: 47:16

or something. No, we were in Zanzibar for hotel collaborations and that's actually where we got engaged.

Speaker 2: 47:22

So, Zanzibar is also very high on my list now, but I have a friend who's half Austrian, half Tanzanian and her family just opened an Airbnb and they're working on another one. So I also went down to see her and anyone who's going, please, please, check out my socials, because her Airbnb is stunning and also, like her and the workers, they just have the connections with everybody. So all of our tours were done by locals and when I was kind of like looking up for price comparisons that I could find on other sites or on like get your guide that a lot of people do, they're very convenient, they're very quick, but it was like 80 a person for one of the like half day boat things, so it would have been close to 200 for both of us to go for like half a day. Our locals took us for, I think, just under 50 for both of us on a private boat the entire day wow and the local people and they

Speaker 2: 48:23

were so friendly and so kind and like, just very generous, making sure everything's okay. You know and like. Obviously we always like, try to tip, especially with the local people. But like that's another thing is, I've noticed you, it's so hard because they can't always compete with the prices of, like, the huge corporate ones a lot of times. But then I've also kind of found that some of them really do want to do it for less money, because and I'm just like, why would you not want to go with someone who lives here, who knows it isn't just a business for them, it's not about profit. You know, know, like and like I just I always have a much better time. But it blew my mind because we, we saw all these tours and they're just jam-packed full of people and we had one of the old like dow boats to ourselves, just the two of us with our like guy, and it was amazing that's my style.

Speaker 1: 49:11

I love it. I'm always trying to look for like I always break. I don't break the rules, but I kind of break the rules. It's like, well, if they're all over there, what's going on over here? Well, I'm going over here.

Speaker 2: 49:20

Well, and the thing is, a lot of people go to like this Island, this Island, and then end on the sandbank, and he took us to the sandbank so we had it to ourselves for like an hour and a half or two hours before. So we were on this sandbank, in the beautiful water, on a private boat, flying our drone, and there was no one around us, like it was wow this is in zanzibar, okay and then when we left, like two hours later, that's when we saw like, and we were, we were probably 10 minutes out, but we saw just tons of boats headed that direction.

Speaker 2: 49:50

So because they they're all on the same schedule, you know all these large, like corporate tours are all on the same schedule. So you're going to be sharing it with like 200 other people and we spent two hours on an island by ourselves. It was beautiful.

Speaker 1: 50:03

That's awesome. Where are you going after you leave the US?

Speaker 2: 50:07

So we will go back to Austria and work the summer camp for a month and we kind of split our time between Austria and Hungary, because his parents have a lake house in Lake Balaton in Hungary and so we go down. For the weekends we go sailing, hang out there, and then his cousin's actually getting married. So the week after camp we'll stay in Hungary, go to Budapest, go to her wedding and then after that we actually head to Madeira. Oh nice, and I'm so excited for it and I laughed when you were, like you know, some people said, like the island in Sri Lanka, because Madeira is actually known as, like the European Hawaii. Okay, I'm so, so ready to go to Madeira and we're gonna do a couple collaborations there and then after that he'll already start a season and he's gonna play in Austria next year, so we will be back in Austria okay, gotcha, all right.

Speaker 1: 50:57

so Madeira one thing I want to understand about it. I've been looking at it and my friends like that's where you got to spend some time and I'm wondering like how much it is like Hawaii and is it really warm all year round? And it looked really windy. And I asked another YouTuber and I said is it windy? She's like yeah, it's really windy, but I don't know if it's just that one day, or if it's like one of those places where no one really mentions that.

Speaker 2: 51:22

You know well I think it also depends on where you go, so like when you're hiking or something, I'm sure there's a lot of wind and any beach is windy, so like if you're on the coast of an island, you're always going to have wind. Um, I think when you get into the jungles, probably a lot, lot less windy, but when you're hiking up high, oh right, I don't know. I don't know how much you hike, but anytime you're on a summit or a peak, it's windy.

Speaker 1: 51:45

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:45

I'm not sure if it's just one of those that, like, every coast is windy and every peak is windy.

Speaker 1: 51:49

Right yeah, true yeah. I'm like you I like it really warm, Like I don't want to go there and it's like 60 degrees and windy and like to me that's not island warm.

Speaker 2: 51:58

They have decent weather year round. I mean, I wouldn't say that it's hot all year round, like, but their lows are probably the six.

Speaker 1: 52:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can deal with that. So, yeah, all right. Well, I think we're just about at the end of our time, kristen. Any last minute questions? Oh my gosh I need to have met you, and it's so funny because we usually do dive into a country. This is a very different, you know different episode, but I would say just really interesting. In regards to you know your lifestyle and what you're promoting and doing um, and it's just really really neat.

Speaker 1: 52:29

So yeah, and maybe we can have you back after you're in Madeira, because I'm so curious about that. I'd be too. That would be really. And your honeymoon, my gosh. I want to know about the.

Speaker 2: 52:41

Ghillie Islands.

Speaker 2: 52:41

I'm like, yeah, I'm really excited because, like I mean, fiji has always been on my list but it's one of those that, like you, can do bucket.

Speaker 2: 52:49

But, like so many people also talk about the Maldives being a honeymoon destination and, like I get it and I like to do a mix of them. You, you know, like I like to do hotel collaborations with some of like the more luxury places so that you can still get the experience. But then I'm also very honest about you know, if we're not doing hotel collaborations, we're not staying in these like five-star resorts or anything like that like we are budget travelers when we're not doing collaborations, because we would just rather spend our money on adventures and activities and go more places and do more things. And I truly think you can enjoy some of these places that are known to be expensive on a budget. It's just you need to know how to do it. But I will say that probably for the honeymoon we will have a couple nights in each place and a bit more upscale, but I want to stay at each place for like two weeks. So I don't know, maybe three nights in a really nice place and the rest of the time would be more budget friendly.

Speaker 1: 53:45

Right, absolutely. How great, though, to have the. That's awesome, very smart. Do hotel collaboration, because you're helping them on PR and marketing and then you don't have to pay or you know, but it's worth. I mean you're, you know, paying in your time. It's a barter right.

Speaker 2: 54:02

And my fiance would say that you really are kind of paying with your time. Because this is my biggest tip for anyone who wants to kind of get into the collaborations and stuff Make sure that you don't overextend yourself because your deliverables and the amount of time if you're like me and a bit of a perfectionist like you are going to spend so much of your time creating content that you're not actually enjoying the experience and you're not actually just relaxing. So always make sure that you block out days to do nothing, because otherwise, like what are you doing in a luxury place, you know?

Speaker 1: 54:43

Right, yeah, it's $500 worth of business and you're staying for one night and it costs $400 to pay for it cash, then why are you bothering?

Speaker 2: 54:46

I will never do a hotel collaboration that's less than two to three nights Like three is usually my minimum, because I take at least a day and a half for content creation and another half just to scout the place out. So I usually take my first, like evening and morning, to scout because I want to see how lighting is in places, I want to pick places that I want to take pictures. I have to get angles. I think about the outfits that we're going to do if there's certain amenities. So like at the one that we did in Zanzibar they had these huge like nest in the trees, which is actually where we got engaged in um, but they have they host it for these like seven course meals. But there was so much to think about because it's activities and you have to schedule the times and stuff. So like it's a lot of work that people because a lot of people are like, oh, you're just on vacation, you snap yeah, you're like oh, but yeah, it's not.

Speaker 2: 55:35

It's just like taking a selfie and it's not taking a selfie, like we have cameras with tripods set up and I am literally out there saying, like what is it like at 6 pm, 7 pm, 8 pm? When do we lose the light? What are the angles that we need to set up? Wow, that is like we. They had three nests in the tree and I was like I need this one because the lighting hit it properly, and like so there's actually so much that goes into it. You are a movie producer, yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:00

I know Like this is really good stuff. My sister's a professional photographer as well, and then I do a lot of the nature stuff. That beautiful picture behind her. She did herself. That's so nice Kristen. Oh yeah, that's a. I do a lot of scenery and then I.

Speaker 2: 56:14

I love it. I compete in wake surfing.

Speaker 1: 56:15

I'm actually taking off tonight for it, and then I love it. I compete in wake surfing. I'm actually taking off tonight for it, and then I so I love action shots and I get I don't know why I'm really good at it grabbing your boards and yeah, nature and I'm doing a girls women's backpacking trip in June 1st.

Speaker 2: 56:32

And you said my dad did a lot of like nature and scenery and I realized it's a lot easier than doing people. We make things a lot more difficult is and, like as someone who has to usually be in the photos, I make it more difficult as well, because if it's not perfect or I look like I have to change things and nature is much easier.

Speaker 1: 56:48

Oh wow, so many skills for you, so awesome Okay.

Speaker 2: 56:54

I congrats you in making this life for yourself.

Speaker 1: 56:56

I think it's amazing. You seem to really really enjoying it.

Speaker 2: 57:00

And thank you for sharing sustainability.

Speaker 1: 57:02

And again, travelmuncherscom and your what's.

Speaker 2: 57:06

your Instagram is I think it's travel underscore munchers, and then I also have, like travel munchers Academy, a digital nomad Academy, basically for anyone interested in the lifestyle, because there's just there's so many facets like you don't have to do anything related to what I do, but there's so many ways to get into the digital nomad life and I really like helping people kind of make that leap, because it's just it's always easier when you have someone who's done it and can kind of help you through the process, and so I have my own academy. I absolutely love doing that as well. So, yeah, I'm kind of multiple things, but I really enjoy that because you know you never get burnt out on one thing. I think that way Fantastic.

Speaker 1: 57:44

Okay, Well, thank you so much for being a guest and that we found time. It's been a challenge with everyone their busy schedules, but thank you so much. Well, thank you guys for having me.

Speaker 2: 57:54

It was lovely chatting. So nice to meet you. Yeah, definitely would love to keep in touch and I'll be watching where you're going.

Speaker 1: 58:05

Happy to come back All about Madeira and the Gili Islands. Yay Okay, have a great day. Thank you so much. Thank you Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast, can you please take a second and do a quick follow of the show and rate us in your podcast app and if you have a minute, we would really appreciate a review. Following and rating is the best way to support us. If you're on Instagram, let's connect. We're at where next podcast. Thanks again, thank you.