Where Next? Travel with Kristen and Carol
Where Next? Travel with Kristen and Carol
Nairobi, Kenya - Travel with Vincent
Imagine a city where you can walk amongst skyscrapers one moment and spot a giraffe the next. Our guest, Vincent, fresh from a two-month adventure in Nairobi, takes us on an extraordinary journey through Kenya, sharing firsthand experiences from his upbringing near Lake Victoria to his current life in the Bay Area. We explore Kenya’s diverse tribes and educational system, and the unique blend of English and Kiswahili that colors daily conversations.
This episode shines a light on Kenya's rich cultural traditions and culinary delights, especially during Christmas. Discover how Kenyans celebrate the festive season with grand feasts and family gatherings, rather than focusing on gift-giving. We also discuss the regional culinary treats you can't miss, from succulent tilapia to the freshest coastal seafood. And if you're a travel enthusiast, our guest's tips on the best times to visit Mombasa, Lamu, and Malindi will be invaluable.
Finally, we delve into the vibrant sports culture and cosmopolitan lifestyle of modern Nairobi. Learn about the city's affordability compared to places like the Bay Area, the innovative mobile payment system M-Pesa, and the must-visit spots like Nairobi National Park and the Masai Mara National Reserve. Plus, get a taste of Kenya's sweet side with desserts like mandazi and mahamri, and explore the nation's music traditions that range from the ancient Nyatiti to contemporary Afrobeats. Tune in for a rich, multifaceted look at Kenyan life, culture, and travel that promises to both inform and inspire.
Map of Kenya
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Carol Springer: https://www.instagram.com/carol.work.life
Kristen: https://www.instagram.com/team_wake/
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Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with Kristen and Carol. I am Kristen.
Speaker 2:And I am.
Speaker 1:Carol and we're two long-term friends with a passion for travel and adventure.
Speaker 2:Each episode, we interview people around the globe to help us decide where to go next.
Speaker 1:Welcome to when Next, and I'm so excited to dive into Nairobi and learn more about your home country. Now were you there recently?
Speaker 3:This is a pleasure to talk to you, christine and Carol. Yes, I was in Nairobi, in Kenya in general, not too long ago, so I just came back. So I was there from beginning of March through the end of April, so about two months.
Speaker 1:Oh wonderful, so you have all your family is there. Are you the only one out here? Oh wonderful, so you have all your family is there.
Speaker 3:Are you the only one out here? No, so we are sort of split. I have seven siblings five boys, three girls.
Speaker 1:Oh, so yeah, eight total.
Speaker 3:Eight total. Yes, so I've got two brothers here, and then the rest of my siblings are back in Kenya, and then I've got my mom over here as well. But yes, I'm originally from Kenya. That's where I was born, raised, went to school, grew up there, started my professional career there before I moved to the US about 20 years ago. Wow, what brought you to the US? My work brought me to the US. I got the opportunity to come for what was called a global development program by my farm. I used to work for Deloitte Touche, which is a public accounting firm, and so they nominated me to come out here for just 18 months. But then I came to the Bay Area, san Francisco, fell in love with the place and I never went back.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. So do you have any family here? Siblings that are here?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have two brothers here, I have a nephew here and I have my mom is here as well. I am not married. I have my long term girlfriend, who is also Kenyan. We've been together a long time. We have no kids, yeah, and so that's the family.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful. Well, I would love to hear also, like in terms of growing up there and what it was like. And I was curious school is it like I know here elementary school, middle school, high school and then college? How is it?
Speaker 3:Excellent. I think over the years the education system has changed a little bit, but just to give you an overview. So Nairobi is the capital city of Kenya and that's in the East Africa, the eastern part of Africa. It's bordered by Uganda if you've heard of Uganda, ethiopia, south Sudan, somalia and Tanzania and then on the southeastern part of the country is the Indian Ocean, so we have a coastal border as well, and Kenya has so many different tribes I think we have 41 distinct tribes, so all those are different languages.
Speaker 3:I'm from a tribe called Luo L-U-O, which I believe is the fourth largest tribe currently in Kenya. So growing up, I was born and raised on the western part of the country, right by the shores of Lake Victoria. I believe Lake Victoria is either the largest or the second largest freshwater lake in the world. So my tribe, the Luo, are generally known to be fishermen. I did not grow up fishing, though, but we used to go to the lake a lot.
Speaker 3:So the equivalent of elementary school when I went to school, I think, is similar to going to grade one through eight and then, after grade eight, you go to so and we would call it primary school. That was primary school was from standard one up to standard eight, right, and then after that you go to high school and then you go to the university or you go to college yeah, whether it's a tertiary college for your diploma, or university, to get your bachelor's degree. Interestingly enough, the early years of primary school I think it was from grade one to three most of the education there was done in your tribe's mother tongue. It was very segregated back then, like if you went to a school that was in your rural area. The early years you are taught in your mother tongue, and then English was then the language of education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do most people speak English.
Speaker 3:Yes, most people. If you've gone to school, you'll likely be speaking English. Oh wow, although we have a national language that most people speak across the country. It's called Kiswahili. So almost everybody knows Kiswahili, but English, yes, if you go to school, that's the language that's used to teach people. But then there are also people who, if you don't go to school, but you're still able to pick it up, just you know talking to people and watching TV, listening to news.
Speaker 1:Growing up. I'm just looking at pictures because you were in the main city. I've got my computer here as well. It's funny. It's got a picture of buildings and then a giraffe going through the green. That's interesting.
Speaker 3:What's interesting about Nairobi? I grew up on the western part, so it's a city called Kisumu, but then in my college I went to Nairobi, so pretty much my university was in Nairobi. Then I started working in Deloitte over there, so most of my adult life was in Nairobi. What's interesting with Nairobi? I think it's the only city, or one of the few, that has national park, a game reserve, pretty close to it. So if you're somebody who is into nature or game reserves or you love to see animals and you travel to Kenya and you're in Nairobi, then it's a very easy short day trip to just go to the Nairobi National Park and you'll be able to see all the animals, the famous animals that people know. We should think about the big five.
Speaker 2:So, Vincent, I remember we talked to someone from I can't remember where in Africa, but they said there's only certain countries where you can actually see the apes. Is it Kenya?
Speaker 3:Kenya? No. So you can see, kenya has monkeys and small apes, if you think about the big apes, the gorillas, and that would be another country called Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo even. Uganda. That's where then you'd see the massive, huge apes.
Speaker 2:Okay, got it Okay great.
Speaker 1:And you said something about the big five. If you wanted to go see the big five, what are those five?
Speaker 3:So the big five? That were those? What are those five? So the big five, uh, that people normally tend to want to see. So you have the elephant, leopards, um lions, uh, the rhinos and the buffaloes. So it's a buffalo, rh, rhino, leopard, lion, elephant.
Speaker 1:No giraffes, no giraffes.
Speaker 3:So that's interesting because you know, think about it, you know it's really big, but the reason I think they coined that term, the big five, I think these were the five animals that were most poached, right, illegally hunted down, and at some point they were on the verge of extinction, or maybe not, but they are the protected animals. Giraffes not so much, and that's why, I think they use the term the big five in terms of affinity to poachers right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. So what did you do? What kind of things did you do growing up and your traditions, sports that you may have done as a kid, or things that were fond memories of good memories growing up?
Speaker 3:Wow, there is a lot.
Speaker 2:I figured.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if I asked people that, but you grew up there, so I'd love to hear how that was growing up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think what I loved most growing up was is that we were just free as kids. Yeah, you know we lived. There was no fear of being out there. You know we lived, there was no fear of being out there. And so we grew up in big families, like the African families sometimes were very big. An interesting thing for you to know my paternal grandfather, for example, had 18 wives right oh, wow, All at once right. Like kind of All at once, right, like kind of all at once, and traditionally people tended to live in the same homesteads.
Speaker 3:So him, because of the 18 wives, he had three different homesteads. The homestead I grew up in I had three grandmothers from my paternal grandfather, three grandmothers from my paternal grandfather, and each of those households had, you know, I would say, a minimum of five kids.
Speaker 3:So from each of them I would have step uncles and then you have many different cousins, so growing up, it used to be a really big family and you could go to any of your stepmother's houses and you are all kids of the same people. You could eat there. There was never like, oh, this is our house, that's so-and-so's house, so it was all one big community.
Speaker 2:Wow, and does that still happen today?
Speaker 3:No, Okay, wow, and does that still happen today? No, okay, I think other people still try to do it, but I think back then I think there was land and people could do farming for subsistence, and there was the climate and weather patterns also allowed for people to farm a lot, and weather patterns also allowed for people to farm a lot. But nowadays, with global warming, things have changed. Because of the population growth, land is minimal now, and so people are becoming, are having smaller and smaller families. I don't have kids myself. My dad only had one wife right, even though his dad had 18 wives, so it's very different now and people are more conscious about what's happening in the rest of the world. There is family planning. A lot of people live in the cities and are more into the Western ways of doing things, which is very different I see
Speaker 1:absolutely so did you see that in your girl upbringing this, this big, huge change right through how things were as a kid to um and and I don't know how, how was that um or you know, I guess, with your? It was, that was your grandfather, so it was just it was your dad who just had one wife and then, but you've got this wonderful huge family right yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing.
Speaker 3:I mean, um, you look back there the the things that I loved about having such big families. But there are also things that growing up then I didn't, I came not to like right, like when I got into the university and when I joined, the first year was sort of government sponsored free, and then from the second year we had to pay fees and so on. That's when it started dawning on me that you know we didn't have enough money for me to go to college. And so you, you start scrap, you know, crapping through different resources to just get through your education. And then you compare yourself with families that you know were coming with small families, right, two, three in their family. They didn't struggle so much. And then when I started working, then I we used to use this terminology of people starting life with negative opening balances versus positive opening balances right yeah, so you start working, maybe if you are amongst the eldest in your family, that's talking from a true accountant there, by the way.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 3:Just pop that in there Exactly so. You start off and you realize that your younger siblings become your responsibility, and it was expected in the family it's not really part of.
Speaker 3:You know it's not your kid or you know, but you have to pay school fees for them or make sure they're they are doing okay, and your parents would look up to you to to help out. So those are some of the the disadvantages that I saw that I didn't like but I still liked the idea of having so many different people you could lean on, you could reach out to, you could hang out with, and so we always look forward to holidays, right, like even today. I tend to go back almost every December because we tend to always go to an uncle's place right, and an uncle would invite everybody and I meet relatives that I've never met before, just given how big we were, and it's cool. It's cool that we do that and it's just amazing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. What is a holiday Not Christmas? Is it Kwanzaa? What do you guys celebrate at Christmas time?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, so 70% are Catholics and then the others are, you know, Protestant or other Christian religions, and then we have, I think, about 10% of the country is Muslim. I don't know if you guys are religious, but if you are like Catholic, Christmas is huge right. So people would look forward to Christmas as well as the Easter weekend, right Good Friday and Easter Monday. That weekend is huge. So the country recognizes those periods as national holidays, in addition to just other, you know more political holidays that the country has.
Speaker 3:But, Christmas is huge and the Easter weekend is huge.
Speaker 1:So I just have to I guess I don't know geek out. I love Christmas as well. I guess I love to celebrate those holidays. So Christmas trees, and is it? What is the tradition like that? It's funny because I know what Australia, you know it's flipped, so it's kind of their winter and I didn't or what. It's their summer, not their winter, whereas here it's the winter and I don't know where in the world if that's the similar Kenya too.
Speaker 3:That's. That's summer for Kenya, right, it's uh, it's hot around that time. That's when we get actually most stories from Europe and even, you know, um, the US and so on, because it's warm out there, yeah, so, even though Christmas is big, but the concept of Christmas trees, that's new to us now. So families nowadays, people live in the cities and so on, now they they have that concept of Christmas trees, largely because kids watch what's happening in the western world. But we didn't have, we't grow up with Christmas trees.
Speaker 3:But what would happen is that was a time, for it was almost like Thanksgiving here in the US, right, so everybody goes back home around that time just to be around family. On Christmas Eve, you'd spend almost the entire night in church, at least up to until midnight, and then go home and then the following day, on Christmas day, again go to church, come back, then it's just feasting, right, there wasn't even the concept of gift giving either, right, but it was just lots of food, seeing lots of relatives that you don't get to see all the time, and people just being together, and that's how people used to celebrate and that's the time also. You would try and, uh, or families would try, and you know, cook some of the best foods that you don't cook all the time, or things that you've always desired to have.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we should go to that. What are some popular foods there?
Speaker 3:People often ask me what's the Kenyan food? And I struggle with that a little bit, because all the different, the different tribes in Kenya tend to make the same food but make it differently, right. So, like, on the meat side, beef, goat meat chicken are huge, right. And then fish is also huge, and primarily one particular type of fish, and that's tilapia. So the general seafood, if you think about, you know, either crabs or shrimp, or those are sort of confined to the coastal part of the country, right? So the coastal part of Mombasa, which is so the coastal part of Mombasa, which is a very, very famous tourist destination as well. Some of the best beaches in the world is found in Mombasa. Yeah, so Mombasa, m-o-m-b-a-s-a.
Speaker 1:So if you want to look up in that region Deani D-E-I-i. I see it dianii like diane, but with an I at the end instead of an e yes, yes, and I see a lady on a camel and the picture.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's gorgeous if you if you are ever in kenya, like a lot of people who come to Kenya. Obviously most people fly into Nairobi, spend some time in Nairobi, go for some of the game drives, but I would say 90% of people tend to go to the coast as well. There are a few towns up north along the coast as well. Apart from Mombasa, there's Lamu and there's Malindi up north along the coast as well. Apart from Mombasa, there's Lamu. There is and there's Malindi up north as well.
Speaker 2:That's equally beautiful and what's the best time of year to go, since it's probably pretty hot yeah, the best time to go, honestly I'd say it's like the September October time.
Speaker 3:So September, october, november timeframe, or even February, no, march, april, june, july is also good. June, july, august is relatively cool right. So, Nairobi gets a little cold, but still not cold compared to here in winter, and so Mombasa is very hot. So the May, june, july, august it cools down just a little bit, but not that much. Okay yeah, is Nairobi elevated a little bit.
Speaker 2:Is there mountains there?
Speaker 3:Nairobi. Yeah, nairobi is. I think it's about six feet above sea level, 6,000 feet above sea level.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so it is quite a bit All right.
Speaker 3:So it's a bit elevated.
Speaker 1:And it has, I'm assuming mountain regions as well.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh yeah, there are lots of hills and mountains in Kenya. Mount Kenya, for example, is, if you are a mountain climber you know it's one of the best to go to, very challenging, and it's not far from Mount Kilimanjaro as well. On the Tanzania side, right Manjaro as well on the Tanzania side right, but so Mount Kilimanjaro is easier to climb than Mount Kenya. Mount Kilimanjaro is higher than Mount Kenya, but Mount Kenya is more steeper than Kilimanjaro.
Speaker 1:Wow more difficult.
Speaker 3:More difficult.
Speaker 1:To do yes.
Speaker 3:So you have Mount Kenya and then the regions around Mount Kenya. They are definitely they're definitely in the highlands a lot colder in those areas. Then, as you come down to Nairobi, still elevation is still high, but the temperature is a lot more moderate, actually throughout the year. So it's really beautiful in Nairobi and then as you move down to the coast, then it's hot. Then the northern part of the country is also very hot. The northern part of the country, half of the country on the northern side, is semi-arid and arid. It's just like a desert right. So it's very hot up there. So most people live in the southern half of the country it's a, it's a.
Speaker 1:Even looking at the map, it's brown on the top and then it's got green around the the coastline and over here that kind of looks like it goes brown to the bottom exactly I can imagine and it and it's interesting because, looking at the map, all the cities look in the green spots.
Speaker 2:Yes, Makes sense, right yeah.
Speaker 3:Human beings want to live in areas that's a little bit more habitable, right. Absolutely, but we can always reclaim even the dry areas to see what places like Dubai have done right. So it's not impossible to make those other places habitable as well. We just haven't done it yet.
Speaker 1:Football, I'm assuming, is very big, aka soccer here in the US.
Speaker 3:Correct. So I was going to ask you which football are you referring to, but you quickly said soccer. Yes, yeah, so soccer is huge in Kenya, even though Kenya has never done very well at the international level. But people there love, love playing and watching soccer in general, so the country tends to follow the English Premier League a lot and people can even have fights in watching some of those competitions on TV in bars. Right, because some people are supporting some teams, others are supporting others and you know arguments do come up, but yes, soccer is super huge. Personally, growing up, I played just a little bit of soccer, but I was largely into field hockey and then rugby oh, rugby.
Speaker 1:I I'm assuming rugby is pretty big.
Speaker 3:Rugby is big, rugby is very big there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they don't have, like baseball and football, us football or things like that.
Speaker 3:No, no. The closest spot that you know is very popular here in the US is basketball. It's very popular here in the US is basketball, so basketball is played. There are a lot of kids who do that, and even at national level we have a basketball league, but it's not that popular. The other one that's very popular is that's close to baseball, but it's not. That's cricket.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, and cricket, yes, okay, that makes lots of english influence?
Speaker 3:it sounds like yeah both english and indian influence. Oh, okay, so. So the country, um, I think, uh, kenya has the second highest population of indians. Africa I think South Africa has the most number of Indians and then Kenya the second most in Africa. Where I grew up, the city I went to high school in which is in the western part of Kenya, was primarily dominated by the Indians, so my high school was primarily Indian. In fact, I think Blacks were a minority in that school.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even the local leaders of the city were Indians. Yeah, so there's a huge Indian influence in Kenya.
Speaker 1:Wow, are they that close?
Speaker 3:I'm trying to look out here to look the way they came to be. Kenya was colonized by the British, and so the British, in looking to find ways of transporting, you know, whatever they were mining inland all the way to the coast to put them on ships, they were building this huge railway line. That time they had already colonized India, so they brought a lot of Indians to build the railway. So once the railway was done, most of the Indians did not go back, they just stayed in the country, and that's how that population started.
Speaker 3:Got it and then, over the years, they started businesses and they've continued to. Yeah, people have continued to come in. But what I'm seeing now in Nairobi, for example, Nairobi itself has become very cosmopolitan. Right example, Nairobi itself has become very cosmopolitan. Right, there are parts of Nairobi you could be in and wonder if you are in Kenya, even Like there's a section of Nairobi called Westlands. Westlands is that there's so many expatriates that live there. We now have so many international companies that have offices there, companies like Microsoft, IBM, Apple.
Speaker 2:So what's like the cost of living? If someone like say, wanted to not expat, but you know, go spend some time there and work while we're there, how affordable is it? You live in the Bay Area, I'm assuming it's less expensive than that.
Speaker 3:It's definitely way. The cost of living there is way, way less compared to, you know, the US or even the Bay Area here. The one thing that is expensive is accommodation is expensive oh, it is okay especially if you want to. If you want to, you know, live in in similar, you know apartments or standards for the us, like in westlands.
Speaker 3:If you got a one-bedroom airbnb you'd probably pay close to maybe a thousand dollars, a thousand two hundred dollars a month okay, okay but on a daily basis I think you could still get a decent place, a one bedroom at, say you know, 40, 35 dollars a night, 35 a night.
Speaker 1:okay, got it. Yeah, I'm looking at the pictures and it's very nice. I mean all of the buildings, the shopping, all of the. I mean it looks like it's very the pictures at least I'm seeing here very clean and nice and modern. So a lot of really neat architecture. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's very modern, so it's only accommodation that is high up there. Everything else the food is very cheap. Transportation If you requested for Uber, there are also other competitors of Uber that are more local. There are also other competitors of Uber that are more local. It's like being in New York City, like it's. You better request Uber when you're ready. Right, it's like two minutes, it's right there and within Nairobi you are. There's hardly anywhere you are going to go that you'll pay. I would more than ten dollars, right, like, like it's.
Speaker 3:It's a dollar, two dollars worth of. You know um uber rides almost anywhere you go, wow, so which is extremely cheap, yeah, and then the foods. I think even if you go to some of the high-end places, fine dining, if you spend like 30 bucks on your food, then that's really really good food, right? Yeah, okay, you'd probably spend $10, $15 tops as one person at even some of these high-end dining places. There are also a lot of, like, local restaurants that are decent, that just have local food and so on. That's fresh, that you know you'll be paying $1, $2 for the food.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, for lunch or something.
Speaker 1:What's a traditional meal so?
Speaker 3:it's very the food, oh, okay, okay, lunch or something.
Speaker 1:What's a traditional? So it's very, very, very affordable. Yeah, exactly what would someone?
Speaker 3:get for a dollar, two dollars. What type of meal would that look like? So, one of the type this type of foods in Kenya across the board, there is. I would say I would call it a bread. Really it's a cornmeal bread, right, and it's used as the table food that accompanies everything else. So think of it as rice, right, and then you could have then beef stew or beef fry, or chicken stew with some vegetables, and so on. So this cornmeal, it's, um, the way it's cooked is very simple. You boil water and then you put, you know, corn flour in it and there's a way that you mix it until you get the right consistency that you want, and then now and then it's, it's, and most people just eat it using hands. So if you have that with um beef stew and and vegetables and fried vegetables yeah, could be like fried collard greens, right? Um, it could be, you know, fried Swiss chard or spinach, right? Yeah, that would probably be just a dollar and a half.
Speaker 1:So when you're saying, eat it with your hands, is it like a like a dough, is it like a soup or is it like it's more like a dough, right?
Speaker 3:So you, you, you grab it with your hands and then maybe do just a little bit of kneading with your hand and then use it to scoop the the sauce from your plate and the vegetables and mix it that way with some meat and then, yeah, and then put it in your mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been to like Ethiopian restaurants before and they had like it was almost like a tortilla, but like almost texture of like a pancake, though I wonder if it's similar. And then it was a lot of the scooping you pile stuff on top of each other.
Speaker 1:What's it called? What's that bread type called?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in Kiswahili it's called ugali U-G-A-L-I.
Speaker 1:U-G-A-L-I Okay. I figured, I'd get a picture of it.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it looks like. Well, it poofed up like a yes, yeah, it's white and White.
Speaker 2:You can get brown too.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, from yellow corn.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you can get brown too. Okay, yeah, from yellow corn. Yeah, and you can get brown too. The ethiopian uh cattle you're saying is called ingera. Okay, yeah, they make it out of this grain that I believe is only found in ethiopia, even though a few countries nowadays have it. They must have smuggled it out, but it was trademarked for Ethiopia, only called the. The grain is called TEFF T-E-F-F okay yeah, I think one of the healthy, the healthiest grains in the world oh, really okay, I think I remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we talked to someone from Ethiopia once yeah, it kind of sounds vaguely familiar, someone here says chef is terrific, it's a guy holding it up, it kind of almost looks like a quinoa or something like that exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's the same family as quinoa okay, yeah, that.
Speaker 1:And then, um, it's funny when I have the ugali up it says is you question? People ask is ugali the same as fufu? I don't know if that's a food that you guys eat, but it oh yeah, so fufu is, they're very similar so fufu is more west african, so it's um uh, nigeria, gh.
Speaker 3:Cameroon. Yeah, they call it fufu, but it's made similarly, it's just the consistency is a little different.
Speaker 1:It looks more like well, the picture. It looks like it's saran wrapped, almost like eggs on I don't know, kind of more shiny or something, but it could be the saran wrap that I'm seeing on the picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they look more like a biscuit and more looks like I don't know, like a fixed bread. Yeah, oh, interesting okay, gosh, it's so interesting how, like every country, every country, but so many countries like there's a staple that's so different, but it's maybe slightly. You know, like in South America there was a lot of this foreign maize, and then there's tortillas in Mexico, and then there's rice all over Asia, and then you guys have these various different grains.
Speaker 3:Looks like yeah, I love the name fufu yeah, so in Kenya, like one of the things that a lot of people would if you visited families there. Kenyans love grilling, right? Is it barbecue or grilling? I sometimes confuse the two, like I was told that it's different Barbecue and grilling is different. It's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I never really thought about that. I think they're kind of the same in my mind. But you know, yeah, you barbecue and you use it on a grill yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:so the kenyan style is, uh, whether it's goat meat or just beef, so it's, it's just putting meat on of a fire, right on in open space, out there over fire, uh, even the sometimes we don't even marinate it right, so it's just it's just just using salt and the meat fresh meat over fire is is like a delicacy for people there, and then, uh, you'd go, you'd eat it with this bread, this ugali, uh, but the other accompaniment that uh goes well with it is something that's similar to salsa, right, which is just tomatoes, onions, cilantro in them, uh, chili peppers and sometimes a little bit of lemon, and there are so many places you go to that would serve you that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll go there my kind of meal.
Speaker 2:Do you find in where you live now there's any good African food?
Speaker 3:Where I live now? No, not really. So we tend to visit each other a lot. Okay, so we make it at our own homes. Yeah, so every other weekend there's an event somewhere at some African person's house, an event somewhere at some African person's house, and we, some of us, we know each other and some of us are very good at making some of these foods, and so, yeah, so that's how we make sure we still get African food around absolutely.
Speaker 1:And what is there a traditional dessert or favorite dessert or fruits that people also enjoy?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say it's traditional and the fruits that we enjoy are just very similar, so we do fruit salads. That's very similar or normal to what we see here, so nothing really is out of the ordinary there. Those are very similar.
Speaker 1:And what about a dessert Does someone like if it's a special occasion or someone's birthday, or they do. I don't know if they do a birthday cake like they do here.
Speaker 3:I would call them like donuts. If you want sweet, sweet donuts, uh-huh. So there's one that's called Mandazi Mandazi, like M-A-N-D-A-Z-I, mandazi, or Mahamri, m-a-h-a-m-r-i. These are primarily wheat-based deep fried, have sugar in them, very sweet they look like the new orleans.
Speaker 1:They look like the. What is that in the new?
Speaker 2:oh, we just had those. Um, we just had those too goodness, I'm gonna remember I know what is that french name, right, okay, I'll find it right now, yeah but I also know what you're referring to.
Speaker 1:It's that French name, right? Okay, I'll find it right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I also know what you are referring to.
Speaker 1:The New Orleans ones they have a lot of sugar in them Right, yeah, we are getting close to our hour already.
Speaker 2:We have some rapid fire questions coming up. I don't think I said those to you, vignette. Yes, vignette, we have some rapid fire questions coming up. I don't think I said those to you. Yeah, I did say that, vignette. Yes.
Speaker 3:Vignette. Yeah, so, carol, before we get there, just one thing I want to share with you guys. Yeah, that's very unique about Kenya in terms of anybody going there, where Kenya has gotten to right now. Very few people use cash there nowadays, yet, at the same time, not many people have bank accounts, so you could ask yourself, like, how does that even work? People don't have credit cards. So there is this phenomenon. It's a digital transaction or mobile money payments.
Speaker 2:It's called M-Pesa, M-P-E-S-A Okay.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of people, what I tell a lot of people if you ever get there very quickly, get a phone line and the phone carrier would set you up real quick and you can load money onto your phone and wherever you go, any little thing you buy at any store or shop or kiosk by this, on the street or by the corner, anywhere, everybody accepts m-pesa, if you only so think. Think of it as venmo without the bank accounts involved, right?
Speaker 2:okay, yeah, yeah, I think I've heard this before. Okay, and so if you go to transact money at the airport, no one's going to take?
Speaker 3:it sounds like yeah, I mean still there are. There are a few places that would accept cash, but everywhere you go, you there'll be that sign pay with M-Pesa, right?
Speaker 1:okay, and you just, I'm assuming, do it on your phone from your bank to M-Pesa, or is it like an app and you just yeah?
Speaker 3:so it's an app, or even if you don't have an app, you can. There's, there's a manual way of doing it through your phone, but yes, you'd have to transfer money from your bank to your phone, or they have agents. If you just have cash, you go to the agents and they are all over. You deposit the money with the agents and then they put it on your phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, wow, that's so interesting. It's an amazing phenomenon. How long has that been going on?
Speaker 3:Geez, it's been years now.
Speaker 1:It looks like it's been around for a while. Based on these pictures, I'm seeing yeah.
Speaker 2:It's been around for a while but it has continued to dominate.
Speaker 3:So maybe not so much before, but where we are right now. I think it's almost like life will be a little bit difficult if you were not using it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In Kenya. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I wonder is that an African company that put that together?
Speaker 3:Yes, it's a Kenyan company, but they were in partnership with Vodafone.
Speaker 2:Vodafone okay.
Speaker 3:Are they French?
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't know, I'm in my head, I think British, but I don't know, I really don't know.
Speaker 3:It could be, it could be, but it was primarily Safaricom, but the largest network provider over there, and so, yeah, they rolled it out to so many other countries as well, in Africa and even in Asia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you need an extra visa to go over there? I know you're a citizen but, I, was curious in terms of, like, if I wanted to go over there okay, m-pasa, check, I'll get that and it looks like I definitely have. I was going to ask if there's any other beaches or locations that I should look at, because Dayani Mount Kenya sounded really neat, except I'm not sure if I can climb it.
Speaker 3:Oh so quick, one Very high level. If you were to go, you even have two, three, four, five days, so I'd say you get there, absolutely, nairobi is a given.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then when you're in Nairobi, if you can do a quick day trip to the Nairobi park. If not, the most famous game reserve is Masai Mara. You've probably heard of Masai Mara.
Speaker 1:No, I haven't Masai.
Speaker 3:Mara, m-a-s-a-i. Masai Mara. That's the most famous game reserve next to South Africa, right.
Speaker 1:Two words Masai and then Mara, m-a-r-a National Reserve in Kenya.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I found it.
Speaker 3:Lots of animals. If you are able to go there, I think between July and September, you might be able to witness the great migration of the wildebeests. If you've ever heard of that, these are, you know, these will be. I think it's like maybe a million wildebeests that migrate from from Tanzania into Kenya during that time. It's an amazing.
Speaker 2:It's something to behold if you see it yeah, wow, and is that the only time it happens? July through September?
Speaker 3:yeah, between July and September thereabouts yes, I just think Jumanji I'm seeing a lot of pictures and I, yeah, it's impressive.
Speaker 1:It has to be this, because there's such a massive amount.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh my goodness, so then Masai Mara, and then, yes, and then you want to go to Mombasa. Now, mombasa, yeah, there, uh. So think about Mombasa as an epicenter. Then you can either go to the southern part of Mombasa or the northern part of Mombasa. So the southern part of Mombasa, that's where Diani is. Those are more calm, beautiful beaches that are not overcrowded. The hotels there are just amazing. And then Mombasa, the North Beach side. There's a lot more activity there because a lot of people clubs, the hotels there are still pretty good, but crowded right the beach there is also very crowded. And then, if you go now all the way North to Lamu and Malindi, which are some other towns or cities up north, again there's a lot more serenity in those areas. So Lamu, for example, gives you, if you've ever been to Greece, like Santorini. The architecture there is Santorini-like, say Italy, or even some of the French cities I've seen. So it gives you a completely different vibe, like, oh, I think I'm in a different place completely. Yeah, just amazing too.
Speaker 2:That was in the Gianni area. No, this is up north Way, way up north.
Speaker 1:okay, way up north yeah, okay, yeah, it's beautiful. There's another picture? Well, there's. There's a picture with camels going across the beach oh yeah, so that's usually.
Speaker 3:It's, uh, one of the attractions there. If you know, they always have camels around there for kids or even adults. If you ever want to ride a camel, um, it's, it's something that, uh, is very common there got it, and I see melindi in here too.
Speaker 1:It says uh wamu to melindi, some uh youtube video, or something like that is.
Speaker 2:Is that Lama more expensive to stay than Nairobi? No, no.
Speaker 3:Nairobi is a lot more expensive.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's fantastic. Thanks for sharing Any other place that you'd recommend to go to and check out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one more place is called this is on the western part of the country, at least to go see Lake Victoria a little bit at this area it's called Rusinga Island, r-u-s-i-n-g-a. Rusinga Island, on the western part of the country beautiful, amazing views by the lake. I like water. I'm not. I'm not a swimmer, but I love being close to water, so I tend to visit a lot of these coastal places.
Speaker 1:No wonder we get along Vincent.
Speaker 2:There you go, same. Thing.
Speaker 1:I feel the same. That's beautiful as well. It's just like it looks. They're not tropical beaches, but it looks really beautiful as well.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:It's a hidden gem of Kenya.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's one of them. Oh, that's beautiful. Wonderful In terms of getting around. Is it pretty easy? Do people rent cars? Do you do public transportation? Do you have to fly between Kenya or is it drivable? How does that feel or look?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I would say almost all of the above right. So there are a lot of private companies that you can hire vehicles from for self-drive. If you just want to drive, there is a public transportation. You have long distance buses that you can use. And, yes, there are local flights, depending on where you are going, obviously Nairobi, mombasa. There are many flights a day between Nairobi and Mombasa, rusinga side. There is also flights to the closest city there, which is Kisumu. There are flights to Malindi as well from Nairobi, so most of the flights would be Nairobi to and back, but no flights between those different places by themselves, so it's almost like you need to go through Nairobi all the time.
Speaker 1:It's like Costa Rica San Jose is their capital and it would just go out that way and I was there. So yeah, okay, yeah, it sounds similar.
Speaker 2:Okay, so our rapid fire questions. If you could only have one meal while you're there, what? What would you have? I?
Speaker 3:would nyamachoma, nyamachoma, that's the, the barbecue or the grilled goat meat goat meat.
Speaker 2:I've never had goat meat before. How popular is goat meat, it's.
Speaker 3:It's the most popular over there oh, really okay the most popular and there are places where you go in and it's purely just for goat meat and you go and you select a live goat and I know oh my goodness, very fresh.
Speaker 1:It says uh, nama choma, n-y-a-m-a, and then another word c-h-o-m-a. That's what it looks like. Um, and it looks like they barbecue it a lot. It looks very flavorful.
Speaker 3:It is, it is, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:And what's a typical breakfast when? You have there.
Speaker 3:Breakfast is very similar to the English type of breakfast, so it could just be tea and bread, and then people may add eggs or sausages or bacon, but it's usually primarily tea bread. Now there are other traditional things that, do you know, different communities prepare Like. One of them is called Gidheri Gidheri G-I-T-H-E-R-I and it's just a mixture of corn beans, sometimes a little bit of potatoes in it, and it could be fried or not, fried right.
Speaker 1:It looks like beans and corn and looks like there's cilantro on top of here. Someone has avocado in it, but it looks like there's cilantro on top of here. Someone has avocado in it, but it looks like a burrito. It almost like.
Speaker 3:Well, it's like the insides of it, like it almost looks like there's there's no salsa in it, but it looks really so those are things that people add, but traditionally to just corn and beans and a little bit of potatoes right, and then and then, apart from that, there could be, you know, cassavas or or sweet potatoes right that you have with tea, or even porridge. So it's either tea or porridge with those accompaniments that looks good.
Speaker 1:I would like that that sounds very healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, is there any any special music? That's traditional, wow. There are so many, so many tribes.
Speaker 3:Yes, so there is again, depending on the tribe, right. So we have a diverse range of music, right, depending on the tribe. So for my tribe, a very traditional one that I really like, is it's called nyatiti. Nyatiti spelled n-y-a-t-i-t-i, nyatiti, and it's just one instrument, eight. So the translation of how we call it is just eight strings, right.
Speaker 1:It looks like it's a part guitar and harp.
Speaker 3:And the way they play it. They have to stick it on the ground, like you step on it on the ground and this guy will be leaning over and play it, and then they just sing and it's amazing. Uh, so that's one. Uh, there's another one called oh hang lies. O h a n g l a. O h a n g l a oh drums yeah, it's drums, it's um, it's.
Speaker 3:It's amazing. But in general, the music world, now we have the modern music. It's across the board. There is there's the, the east african region. There's a style that's called bongo music, b-o-n-g-o. That's more modern and you go to clubs you'll hear it a lot in clubs. It's across all cultures there and now some of those musicians, they even have collaborations with some of the world-renowned musicians on this end. And then there's Afrobeats, right, and so those are, you know, transcends across different countries in Africa, both West East and South Africa.
Speaker 2:Awesome, alrighty, and then just two more. What is the money called, I mean? Or you don't really have to bother. We're just going to do the MPUZ right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the shilling. The shilling s h I l l I n g, the kenyan shilling and the shilling.
Speaker 2:Okay, and is that um? Does each different country in africa have their own money?
Speaker 3:yeah, different countries have their own money. Okay, but you'd find that, uh, the east african countries, they all call them shillings.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 3:Uganda shilling, Kenyan shilling, Tanzanian shilling.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I've never heard that Cool. And then the closest place you can surf is there, like ocean surfing. It looks like you're kind of on the calmer part.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we are more on the calmer side. Yeah, we are. We are more on the calmer side. Uh, so can you. I do see you know surfers at the coast because they just love doing that. There'll be sometimes there's some waves, but they're baby waves, right? Yeah, not that huge with any wind surfing wind surfing a little, not so much though okay but a little but is it at that the Diani Beach? Okay, yeah, that would be Diani Beach.
Speaker 2:Nice, you're good, all right. Well, that's it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, vincent. That was so fun. I really appreciate it. You're welcome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I learned a lot. Thank you guys so much. I love what you're doing. I'm looking forward to listening to more of these. I did listen to the other ones that you guys have done so amazing and congratulations. You guys keep doing this.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so much, we have a lot of fun and then hopefully one day I'll be traveling and visiting all these places.
Speaker 2:Right Live on site. Here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go. That'll even be better, right, wonderful, well, thank you so much, vincent. Have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 3:You too Bye-bye.
Speaker 2:All right, bye, bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast, can you please take a second and do a quick follow of the show and rate us in your podcast app, and, if you have a minute, we would really appreciate a review. Following and rating is the best way to support us. If you're on Instagram, let's connect. We're at where next podcast, thanks again. Thank you.
