HOST (Jennifer) (00:02):
Hello and welcome to this podcast called Finding Inspiration. It's a 20 or so minute weekly podcast where we interview someone with an amazing story. After the show, I know you're going to feel energized, invigorated and inspired. I'm Jennifer Weissmann. Welcome to Finding Inspiration. Today. We are going to speak about bravery and resiliency. We're speaking to Danielle Wolfson, the first Israeli woman to climb 29,000 feet to the top of Mt. Everest. And if that wasn't impressive enough, ten years ago she was told she would never walk again. Here are a few highlights of Danielle's amazingly inspirational story of her journey to Everest.
GUEST (Danielle) (00:48):
Laying hospital. I talked to myself, I will show everybody I will climb Everest. I didn't know anything about mountains. I didn't know anything about climbing. I never climbed before. I didn't see that I have an option to give up. They told me if I'm staying here I will not wake up in the morning.
HOST (Jennifer) (01:03):
Danielle Wolfson, you made history. You're the very first Israeli woman to climb Mt. Everest. That alone is absolutely astounding but add to it ten years ago, you were told you could never walk again. It's mind blowing how you accomplished. Only three Israeli men have climbed Mt. Everest. You're the very first woman. You were born in Russia. You're a mother, a wife, a daughter, and an attorney. And you climbed Everest. First of all, congratulations Ten years ago, you were in Bulgaria. You had an accident and you were told you'll never walk again.
GUEST (Danielle) (01:40):
This accident had a big influence on the future. It was from the lowest part of my life and it took me to the highest place in the world. The doctors told me the surgery didn’t go well. If I could walk it would be limited. I didn't want to accept it. I was lying there in the hospital more than 10 days. I decided I wanted something. I wanted to have some vision. I didn't know anything about mountains. I didn't know anything about climbing. I never climbed before. I never did triathlons or marathons. I played some tennis and swam.
HOST (Jennifer) (02:24):
Lying in bed in Bulgaria. When they told you, you would probably not walk again. You needed a goal. So some people would say the goal would be a 5k. You decided the goal should be to climb 29,000 feet to the top of Mt. Everest. So take us through that mindset. Obviously you learn to walk again. How did you train your body to climb Everest?
GUEST (Danielle) (02:50):
In hospital I talked to myself. I said I will show everybody -- I will climb Everest. I didn't know how to do it if it's possible, but I knew that the highest point in that's all what I knew. It was somewhere in Asia. I started PT and rehabilitation and it took a long time. I learned how to walk again. And it was like baby steps. It did not happen in one day or six months or after a year. And in my mind, I didn't want to accept the situation.
HOST (Jennifer) (03:24):
What influenced you to keep going?
GUEST (Danielle) (03:28):
In the beginning? It wasn't a mindset. It was my ego. Why did this happen to me? How I can continue if I cannot walk. I didn't want to accept it. After almost more than two years life changed for me. I did the Night Run in Tel Aviv. But I didn't run. I was walking barely. I did it because I wanted to feel like everybody else. I finished it in almost four hours. I was so ashamed. But, by the time I finished, I understood something happened inside me. And I understood that anything is possible. The competition is with me. A famous climber said that competition between people and the mountains. There's competition between me and the mountain is there is no competition between people. It's me. Only me. It's my competition with myself. I decided that everything was possible in my way, but everything was possible.
HOST (Jennifer) (04:21):
Russians are typically focused and driven and disciplined. Did that play into your mindset?
GUEST (Danielle) (04:28):
I was born in Russia, and I received strong Russian discipline growing up. My mother is a very tough woman. She was never satisfied with anything. It was never enough. It doesn't matter. Doing your best to succeed doesn’t matter. It doesn't matter. It's never enough. You never give up. And if you give up - you get a zero. And I thought this discipline caused me big damage. I was never satisfied with myself. It doesn't matter that I graduated with honors, got my BA, Law Degree, and two additional degrees - it doesn't matter. That's never enough. I always criticized myself.
HOST (Jennifer) (05:14):
Are you happy with yourself now?
GUEST (Danielle) (05:16):
It's complicated. I'm not satisfied with myself. I want more. People ask me okay Everest – what’s next? It’s never enough. I need something more. I need to prove to myself all the time. I take myself and to very extreme situations to show myself that I can do it.
HOST (Jennifer) (05:32):
Obviously, your mother has influenced your perspective on life. But if you step back, you did climb Mt. Everest. You spent two months at base camp going up and down eight times. I've read your file. It's unbelievable what you've done to your body and gotten to the very top of Everest. You looked down on the world and still, that doesn't feel like enough for you. Talk to us about the actual climb. Like what did you go through? Tell us about the window of opportunity. Tell us when you got to Nepal, what happened?
GUEST (Danielle) (06:04):
So the whole expedition takes two months. You fly into Katmandu in Nepal. Then you take a helicopter to Lukla Airport which is 2,880 meters (or 9448 feet). Right from Lukla you start the trekking.
HOST (Jennifer) (06:21):
Even the helicopter flight in was dangerous.
GUEST (Danielle) (06:24):
Yes, Lukla is very dangerous. Lukla is the most dangerous airport in the world. From Lukla, you trek every day between five and six hours. You climb 600 meters. So you're already starting acclimatization. When you arrive at base camp the altitude is 5,350 meters (or 17,552). You are at base camp for almost 45 days so it becomes your home.
HOST (Jennifer) (06:52):
Acclimatization is getting your body ready for the lack of oxygen as you climb – is that right?
GUEST (Danielle) (06:57):
Yes, that is correct. From base camp to the summit is only 76 kilometers. If you walk it, you can do it in 15 hours. But our bodies cannot live in these extreme altitudes. That's why you need time for your body to adjust or acclimate. We are teaching our bodies how to live at altitudes. You go up and go down the mountain. Then you go a little bit more up and going down a little bit more and more and more up and going down. And you'd like to, you're teaching otherwise your body can die. You need to be good at acclimatization in order to do that. And you do it in baby steps. You're doing three steps forward and five steps back. But mentally it’s not easy. You're actually going up, but then you need to go down again. Everyone came to Everest ready physically. But during the expedition, mentally, and people didn't prepare themselves. I knew I'm not going to give up. And I think that these came from my Russian discipline. Many people started to give up, decided not to continue on Everest. I didn't see that I have an option to give up. I knew this is my mission and I need to finish my mission for this expedition. It's my mission. And I'm going to finish it. And I didn't think about what will happen in two months. What happened in one month, I only was concentrated on my everyday mission today. I need to go camping one then for five hours I climb. I didn't think about what is going to be tomorrow or the day after. And when you are doing it in baby steps and concentrated on something and giving 100% just for this day. I know there's a big chance I will reach the summit. It also works in life. I try not to think about what to happen in two years, three years. It’s okay to have a goal but concentrate on the small baby steps - the missions. I'm focusing on the progress.
HOST (Jennifer) (08:38):
Back and forth to base camp one and then two -- is it dangerous?
GUEST (Danielle) (08:42):
During climbing, there's a plan, but this plan can be changed in a minute. I was with other Russian people in my group. Our leader reminds us the mountain can allow us to the summit and the mountain must also release us to go down. It's a mountain. We are guests in this place. So everything can happen. All these expeditions. It's a very tensive situation. First of all, from the base camp, you need to go to an ice glacier named Khumbu. This is more than just glaciers in the world. This glacier's like a person and has its own character. It is moving all the time. There can be an avalanche. Things change all the time. Some parts of ice can fall down, and you cannot continue. Any small mistake and you can die.
HOST (Jennifer) (09:24):
Were you worried you would die on Everest?
GUEST (Danielle) (09:26):
Before the expedition, anyone going to Everest understands that Everest is more important than his old life. I wrote a letter to my son before the expedition and I gave it to my sister. If something happened to me, my sister would give this letter to my son. Everything can happen. And I knew that there's a big chance that anything can happen. Once I decided to go to Everest – I knew I wanted to complete my mission. I didn't think about dying. On Everest, there is there are more than 100 bodies still there.
HOST (Jennifer) (10:09):
So you're moving up to base camp one, camp two, and camp three. Is there a specific window of opportunity to climb to the summit?
GUEST (Danielle) (10:17):
Yes, there is one window in the whole year. The third week of May 19 to 25. So you need to be acclimatized and ready by then. But in 2021, Everest had very bad weather. The cyclone came from India came in and nobody expected it because the season is in June. We stuck in camp two at the 6,500 meters (or 21,325 feet). For six days we waited for the storm to pass. There was one small opportunity and we decided to try and reach the summit. The wind was more than 50 kilometers per hour. And the weather was also minus 40 degrees. Nobody knew if we can reach the summit. Sometimes you understand that it can be very dangerous, but you want to finish your mission and want to get to the summit. So it's like a paradox from one way, you understand it in the mind that it can be very dangerous. But from, as I said, you are here two months, and you want to try to do it. We tried it and decided to try it. In the end, we had only five people from our expedition (we started with 12 people). We are climbing over frozen bodies. Other climbers who died on Everest.
HOST (Jennifer) (11:59):
You just stepped over these bodies to get to the summit?
GUEST (Danielle) (12:06):
Mountain is very serious. You're not thinking about this body or that body. You're only thinking about yourself and how to stay alive. After 8,000 meters, everything changed. Your focus is on how to survive. You're only thinking about how to reach your goal. And you're not thinking about anybody. You're not helping anybody. And nobody will help me. It's like something different that happens to you.
HOST (Jennifer) (12:40):
A survival mechanism that kicks in to keep you alive.
GUEST (Danielle) (12:44):
Exactly! I was standing in the line. There's a line to the summit. And I was seeing people standing in the line for four hours in the line in the day, 100 people's climbers that wanted to try to reach the summit. And people were standing there like animals. Everybody has focused on himself. Nobody was speaking and everybody's only taking care of himself and it's okay. It's okay. Because I also behaved like that. I didn't expect that somebody will help me or I will help somebody. I only was thinking about how to stay alive and reach the summit. It wasn't fun to stay there six days waiting for the cyclone to pass. And if it's not good for the body to be that high for so many days. We were risking our health at 6,508 meters (21,000+ feet high). Also, there was no possibility to go down because there's a lot of snow and it was very windy. So we stuck there and I become very ill. I have throat problems and am very sick. I didn't sleep. I didn't eat. I didn't drink. I was hallucinating.
HOST (Jennifer) (13:46):
You were sick to the point where you weren't eating and you were hallucinating. The obvious choice was to go back down and not climb to the summit, but that's not what you chose to do.
GUEST (Danielle) (13:56):
Exactly. You never know on the mountain. You are thinking about only how I want to reach the summit. I was very ill. I knew that I had no power. I was very weak and I didn't eat. I understood with time I was becoming weaker. At this altitude, your body becomes very weak. The leader of our expedition decided after six days that we will go to the summit. I was very slow going. I arrived at the summit after everybody. I understood in my head that every step that I'm doing, brings me to the summit in my head. I decided I would shut and all weakness. My body was very weak.
HOST (Jennifer) (14:53):
You said climbing Everest is 80% mental and 20% physical. So you overcame that challenge. You get to the top. Logistically, are you by yourself? Are you with a Sherpa? Are you carrying your own oxygen? How does it work?
GUEST (Danielle) (15:09):
All the expedition you are together with a team leader. But on the last leg, there is a Sherpa with every climber. You’re already not speaking with the other climbers. You cannot. Everybody must concentrate on himself. Sherpa is taking also oxygen to the way down. He has a day pack. Additional oxygen for the way down. But this season was COVID. Sherpa is like a tribe. And they're living in high altitudes in the mountains. So they're used to the altitude. But this year, the Sherpa’s didn’t understand COVID. On summit day we only had five Sherpa’s left. They were very sick and it was very hard for them. My Sherpa actually died in camp four from Corona. And he wanted to go to the summit, wanted to finish his mission because it's his job. All the money the sherpas will last the whole year for his family. But he didn't understand that there is a COVID that attacked him. And when he got back to camp four -- he just died. And you know, anything that happens at 8,000 meters stays there. So the other Sherpas, took his body and covered it with a tent and put some stones. And his body will stay there forever. Everest is a cemetery of dead frozen people.
HOST (Jennifer) (17:09):
To the top of Everest, with the Sherpa who later died, what did it feel like?
GUEST (Danielle) (17:14):
At fifty meters before the summit is there's the last body that you walk over. It’s a man with all his clothes and gloves and even a hat on. Even with his oxygen and he's lying there. When I came to the summit, it was like a paradox from one side I'm spending on the highest point in the world. And I understood that they became the first Israeli woman. And from another side, I'm thinking how I will not stay with these frozen men on the mountain. The most important part is to go down. It's not like in marathon or Ironman, you finish and you cross the line. You go to the summit but you cannot celebrate because the most dangerous part is going back down. People died when they are going down.
GUEST (Danielle) (17:55):
And I understood that I need to go down. I didn't smile. I didn't cry. I was only thinking I need the power to go back down and come home to hug my son. And the way down is very, very long. It took me five days to get back to the base camp. I become very ill. I couldn't continue. There was a decision after the summit to go back to camp two. Our team leader told us you are on the summit - you need to go right to camp two which is 6,500 meters.
GUEST (Danielle) (18:44):
And when I go down and come forward and I saw my Sherpa, he died, and after I need to go to the camp two. I started to go and but could only reach camp three which is 7,300 meters. And I just decided that I cannot continue. I was alone -- nobody was in the camp. Using the walkie-talkie, I told my team leader I cannot continue. I just couldn't continue. It was night already. It was after 9:00 PM. And he told me if I'm staying there, I will not wake up in the morning because I cannot be at a high altitude. It's not good for the body, but I decided to stay. And I told him, I take responsibility for myself and stayed up all night and came down with the first light. And from that point, I need to go down to base camp because there are no evacuations. There are no helicopters. There's nothing I need except to continue by myself with my legs. So it's not enough to reach the summit -- it’s very important the most important is for the mountain to release me.
HOST (Jennifer) (19:41):
The journey is actually from base camp to summit and summit, back to base camp. Did you pay a price for taking this experience on
GUEST (Danielle) (19:51):
Our bodies are very clever machines. It took time. It took time more than one month for rehabilitation. I understood that I'm very slow. When I came back to my office, I read emails. Every email took like an hour to read. My mind is in slow motion. But I became better and better every day. And I think that I'm okay, you know, it's already paid for six months. And next week I'm going on a new expedition. I am going to climb a mountain in Antarctica.
HOST (Jennifer) (20:23):
What's the message that you want to share with the world?
GUEST (Danielle) (20:29):
Many people wrote me. Men said -- Hello, Danielle, how are you? My dream is to climb Everest. But the women wrote me differently. They wrote about my big achievement. They told me because of you it opened them to try something hard too. My message is that every person has his own Everest. Every day, we have many, many Evers. My message is to find your Everest and achieve your Everest because it's possible.
HOST (Jennifer) (21:33):
Danielle, your story is absolutely the definition of inspiration. You are incredible. Against all odds, you climbed the highest mountain in the world. I hope your Russian mother is as proud of you as I am. It is incredible what you've done. Thank you so much for your time today.
GUEST (Danielle) (21:50):
Thank you very much. And maybe we'll speak again after my next extreme expedition. Thank you very much for inviting me.
HOST (Jennifer) (22:06):
We'll talk again after your next expedition. Thank you. Thank you for joining us this week on Finding Inspiration. Hey, I would appreciate it. If you would click on that subscribe button and share this podcast with a friend, see you next week. I'm Jennifer Weissmann.