Disasters Are Getting Worse Are You Ready, with Rob Moore

August 1, 2023

94. Disasters Are Getting Worse Are You Ready, with Rob Moore

In this episode of the Tell US How to Make It Better podcast, host George Siegal is joined by Rob Moore from the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) to discuss the pressing issues of climate change, flooding, and the increasing frequency of natural disasters. They shed light on the importance of raising awareness, demanding better building standards, and implementing policies to protect homes and communities. Together, they explore the significance of disclosure requirements and flood insurance to empower homeowners to make informed decisions and create a more resilient future.
 

Here’s how you can follow Rob and the NRDC:

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/nrdc_org/ or @nrdc_org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/natural-resources-defense-council/ or Natural Resources Defense Council

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-moore-7a61a415b/

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/nrdc.org/ or NRDC

Twitter: @NRDC

Twitter: @RobMooreNRDC

Rob’s NRDC Website: https://www.nrdc.org/bio/rob-moore

Interesting Posts & Websites:

 https://www.americaadapts.org/

How States Stack Up on Flood Disclosure

Seeking Higher Ground: How to Break the Cycle of Repeated Flooding with Climate-Smart Flood Insurance Reforms

As Climate Risks Worsen, U.S. Flood Buyouts Fail to Meet the Need

As flood waters rise, outdated standards make

Important information from Homeowners Be Aware:

Here are ways you can follow me on-line:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/homeownersbeaware/

Website: https://homeownersbeaware.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-siegal/

If you'd like to reach me for any reason, here's the link to my contact form:

https://homeownersbeaware.com/contact

Here's the link to the trailer for the documentary film I'm making: Built to Last: Buyer Beware.

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:21:18
George Siegal
Thank you for joining me on this week's Tell US How to Make It Better podcast. You have to have noticed how many major disasters happen around the country, from flooding to fires, tornadoes and hurricanes. And we see again and again people losing everything in these disasters. So what are we doing about it? Are we making people more aware of the risks where they live?

00:00:22:00 - 00:00:47:23
George Siegal
Are we demanding more from builders? Are we waiting for local officials to make stricter building codes? Well, my guest today is Rob Moore. Rob is a member of the climate adaptation team at the Natural Resources Defense Council. Rob and the NRDC are addressing the issues I've just brought up, and today we'll be talking about things that every homeowner should be thinking about so you don't get wiped out by the next disaster.

00:00:48:03 - 00:01:08:12
George Siegal
I'm George Siegal, And this is the Tell US How to Make It Better podcast. Your home is probably your biggest investment. And every week, we show you warning signs and solutions to help you protect it. Tell us how to make it better. Is partnering with the Readiness Lab, the Home for podcasts webinars and training in the field of emergency and disaster services.

00:01:08:19 - 00:01:10:23
George Siegal
Rob, thank you so much for joining me today.

00:01:11:10 - 00:01:13:23
Rob Moore
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for the invitation, George.

00:01:14:12 - 00:01:35:10
George Siegal
Now, I've been reading a lot of the stuff you sent me, and it kind of overwhelmed me and going, Wow, we've got a lot of stuff we really have to worry about. And I'm aware of that because of all the podcasts and the films that I've made that there are some problems. So tell me what you're working on at the NRDC right now to move the world and that you're filling some progress in to make things better?

00:01:36:11 - 00:02:08:04
Rob Moore
Yeah. So I'm on a team at NRDC that's primarily focused on issues around climate adaptation. How are we going to change our policies, practices, how we make decisions in the face of climate change? And my part of the team focuses mostly on issues around how flooding is becoming more severe and more frequent because of climate change, as well as sea level rise issues that are becoming more and more of a concern with each passing year.

00:02:08:21 - 00:02:32:17
Rob Moore
So with those with those issues, kind of as the challenges before us, we've been pursuing a suite of things both at the federal and primarily the state level to help communities, individuals, governments figure out how are we going to protect ourselves from the impacts of climate change that can no longer be avoided?

00:02:33:19 - 00:02:51:15
George Siegal
Now, the thing one of the things that's frustrating for me is when things become political and no matter what side of the aisle you're on and I like to look at it from the standpoint of, hey, there's major disasters. People are getting wiped out, there's flooding, there's all kinds of problems. Let's focus on the problems. What can we do to fix them?

00:02:51:24 - 00:03:06:00
George Siegal
So what do you run into in trying to do that? Because I know it's very difficult to get people to to make change, whether it's a politician, whether it's a local official. How do you guys navigate those roadways to try to get stuff done?

00:03:07:02 - 00:03:41:14
Rob Moore
Yeah, there's there's no one easy answer to that. I think unlike my colleagues at NRDC that work on the root causes of climate change, there's less of a partisan political dynamic when you're talking about the impacts of climate change. You know, when you're looking at policy responses to deal with the root causes, let's just say CO2 emissions, you know, it's very much a political litmus test between Republicans and Democrats when you're dealing with the impacts of climate change.

00:03:42:16 - 00:04:02:14
Rob Moore
You don't have anybody that says, I don't believe this flood happened. You can't stand in water up to your knees and actually deny that because you're obviously crazy if you're doing something like that. So there's a lot more consensus on what the challenges are and even what the solutions are, but that doesn't make it necessarily any easier.

00:04:03:05 - 00:04:37:00
Rob Moore
So while we might have bipartisan agreement on what the challenges and solutions may be, we often have bipartisan opposition to those solutions. And a lot of it comes down to well, frankly, a lot of it just comes down to money. You know, there's there are certain industries that are threatened or feel like their profits are going to be injured if we did the right thing and built better, built a higher standard, told people more information about their risks.

00:04:37:13 - 00:04:46:15
Rob Moore
So those are the types of things that we mostly need to overcome and in the advocacy that we're pursuing and the solutions that we're designing.

00:04:47:10 - 00:05:00:04
George Siegal
And one of the things you directed me to that has now just frustrated the heck out of me was that website that says, how does your state stack up on flood disclosure? Well, I live in Florida and we were in bright red on that before Florida.

00:05:00:05 - 00:05:01:18
Rob Moore
You get a big F down there.

00:05:02:00 - 00:05:19:13
George Siegal
We do for certain things. We do. Although I love living here, there are certain things that frustrate me. And that's certainly is one of them. Because what I was shocked to find out is that realtors have gotten it. So you can fill out a disclosure form to say your house has had flooding, but they don't have to show it to the buyer.

00:05:20:18 - 00:05:22:03
George Siegal
That seems kind of crazy.

00:05:22:11 - 00:05:56:01
Rob Moore
There are a lot of states that there is no requirement that a landlord or a home seller have to actually disclose information like has the home flooded for but has the home flooded before? What were the damages from those floods? Is there a legal requirement that you're aware of to purchase flood insurance? You know, the majority of states don't require that type of basic information to be given to a renter or a home buyer.

00:05:56:01 - 00:06:34:09
Rob Moore
And that's something that we've been working on fixing. And in fact, this year, NRDC has been working with a number of organizations in New York State, in New Jersey, as well as North Carolina. And we've made some great progress towards changing those state's real estate disclosure policies. New York passed legislation this year that is just awaiting the governor's signature that give that will finally give homebuyers in New York State access to that information and require disclosure of flood damages and flood risks.

00:06:34:20 - 00:06:57:16
Rob Moore
New Jersey also passed legislation this year giving both renters and homebuyers that right. And North Carolina is on the verge of adopting a mandatory disclosure form that will add a series of questions ensuring that home buyers are in full are fully informed about past flood damages and flood risks known to the seller.

00:06:58:11 - 00:07:25:00
George Siegal
I love that. I think that is so important, but there's a way that we can get a jump on that because one of the things that I always talk about and advocate is don't wait for somebody to actually do that, start demanding those things yourself. And that's a message that I haven't been screaming. But now in my next film and in anything that I do, I'm going to tell homeowners to demand that information when they're buying a house from someone and not to buy the house if they won't give it to you.

00:07:25:00 - 00:07:28:03
George Siegal
I mean, I think that's a must have piece of information.

00:07:28:14 - 00:07:52:08
Rob Moore
It absolutely is. Especially in a state like Florida that has seen more than its fair share of flood disasters in the last few years. And I think that's something that the states where we have made some progress are acutely aware of. You know, each of the three states I mentioned have a history of recent flooding events and hurricanes.

00:07:53:00 - 00:08:15:15
Rob Moore
Another state I didn't mention, South Carolina, has also made some big improvements in the information that are that's disclosed to home buyers there, thanks to the work of the Southern Environmental Law Center. We've also been working with in North Carolina. So, yeah, I think even if even if these questions are not on the disclosure form, you're absolutely right, George.

00:08:16:02 - 00:08:45:04
Rob Moore
Ask, ask, has this home flooded? What were the damages? Do you have flood insurance? Are you required to have flood insurance because the buyer or the seller may not want to tell you that information and that tells you something that's still information that you can act on. But one thing they cannot do is they can't they can't deceive you.

00:08:45:08 - 00:08:55:11
Rob Moore
They can't give you. They can't knowingly give you false information. So they can either choose not to answer or they can give you truthful information.

00:08:56:00 - 00:09:23:21
George Siegal
But they're choosing not to answer that. That gets me upset because you're choosing not to give that information. And I think a lot of people are afraid, well, if I ask too many questions, they won't sell to me. Other people want this house, and my answer is they're doing you a favor. If you walk away from something like that, they've just done you a huge favor because if you buy a house that has a history of flooding and they haven't told you, that's now your problem, tag your IT and the next disaster could completely wipe you out.

00:09:24:21 - 00:10:06:00
Rob Moore
Very true. This issue of disclosure, we think, is it's just one of a fundamental fairness. When two parties are entering into a financial transaction, perhaps the biggest transaction of their life, when you're talking about buying a home, it's just unfair that one side knows something that the other side cannot know. And that's only compounded by the fact that the only other the other places that a home buyer or a renter could reasonably go and find out something about flood risk are also not completely reliable sources of information.

00:10:06:06 - 00:10:59:24
Rob Moore
At the top of that list, I would put FEMA's own flood maps, and these are flood maps that are produced by the Federal Emergency Management Agency. And they are produce for purposes of both communicating flood risk to the public, but also informing local communities, engineers, architects, urban planners, banks about where is it safe to build and where is it more risky to build a problem with the flood maps that FEMA produces is they are often out of date by ten or 20 years or more and even if you have a brand new shiny flood map that was just produced that day, it still doesn't tell you a whole lot about what future flood risk

00:10:59:24 - 00:11:26:16
Rob Moore
is because FEMA does not incorporate information like sea level rise projections into its flood maps. Its flood maps are also based exclusively on historical data. So what you're looking at when you see a FEMA flood map is what the flood risk used to be. It's not really it's not designed to tell you what your flood risk is going to be.

00:11:26:16 - 00:11:40:21
Rob Moore
And that's that's the real piece of information you need, because you're not living in a movie where time goes backwards. We're not in Christopher Nolan's movie. Inception is that too vague of a reference for your audience?

00:11:40:21 - 00:11:41:20
George Siegal
George No, I.

00:11:41:20 - 00:11:44:05
Rob Moore
Think I really like that movie. Yeah.

00:11:44:13 - 00:12:07:12
George Siegal
I think it's like the expression built to code. It's like, okay, so you're taking the minimum standard of safety and you're saying, invest $1,000,000 or 2 million or whatever. You're spending 100,000, 500,000 because we're built to code. How about we're anticipating problems thinking forward? And that's really what needs to be done with flooding. That FEMA map can be extremely misleading.

00:12:07:24 - 00:12:43:16
Rob Moore
Yeah. So just for example, when Hurricane Sandy hit New York City in 2012, the flood map that was in effect for New York City had been produced in 1983. So it shouldn't be a big surprise that the flooding was actually more extensive than FEMA's flood map led people to be prepared for. FEMA recognizes that this is a problem but has yet to put forward a new mapping methodology or even really experiment with ways of incorporating future conditions into its flood maps.

00:12:43:16 - 00:13:14:16
Rob Moore
But it's definitely needed. The same can also be said of FEMA's what's called their minimum codes and standards. So in order for a community to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program, which means a community is going to make make it possible for residents to purchase flood insurance, they have to adopt the flood map, but they also have to adopt building codes and zoning ordinances that meet minimum standards established by FEMA.

00:13:15:07 - 00:13:50:11
Rob Moore
FEMA has not updated its minimum standards since Jimmy Carter was president in the mid-1970s. So, you know, we're not exactly moving the ball towards a more climate-resilient future with our codes and standards. When the federal agency, who's supposed to be supposed to be advancing that conversation is still stuck in the 1970s. We need standards and codes and flood maps that are prepared for the 21st century that we're living in.

00:13:51:00 - 00:14:12:09
George Siegal
And so that raises the question is like, why aren't they doing that? You know, it's like when insurance companies should be demanding that they do it. If they're paying out billions of dollars in losses every year, you would think there'd be a lot of entities that would be really in favor of that. But the one that's probably the least in favor of it might be the building industry, because they're also the rebuilding industry.

00:14:12:09 - 00:14:18:05
George Siegal
It seems kind of counterintuitive that they're the ones that fix the problems that they helped create.

00:14:18:05 - 00:14:55:04
Rob Moore
Yeah, that's often the case. In fact, the National Homebuilders Association filed comments with FEMA, basically basically opposing or having expressing reservations about telling people the truth about their flood risks, that maybe that was a bad idea. I don't know why they think that's a bad idea, but we could probably make some educated guesses in that regard. But yeah, those are the types of entities who are kind of they seem to have a vested interest in keeping the public in the dark about the risks that they face.

00:14:55:04 - 00:15:23:17
Rob Moore
And they're very in the home that they are considering purchasing and that that's got to change and that is changing. So so we're happy to see the progress that's being made in certain states. But we really this is a national problem. If you look at the flooding that just hit Vermont in the last couple of weeks, you know that that's a state that also has no requirements to disclose past flood damages or flood risks.

00:15:24:06 - 00:15:54:11
Rob Moore
So when Hurricane Irene caused widespread damage in New York in 2011, nobody that's bought a home or rented a home in Vermont since then was told anything about the damage that might have been done to their home. And now they're probably a little surprised to find out that their home, they may many people in Vermont may be finding out or will be finding out that that the home that flooded in the last couple of weeks flooded previously in Hurricane Irene.

00:15:54:15 - 00:15:58:10
Rob Moore
But the lack of disclosure requirements never, never told them that.

00:15:59:00 - 00:16:18:16
George Siegal
No and tragically, insurance doesn't usually cover if your house floods and people who don't live in a flood area can get flood insurance very inexpensively, which a lot of people from Harvey in Houston, their lives could be on a totally different path right now if they had spent three or 400 bucks on flood insurance that nobody told them they needed.

00:16:19:07 - 00:16:20:19
Rob Moore
Very true. Very true.

00:16:21:18 - 00:16:45:02
George Siegal
Yeah. Yeah, it's very sad. Now, I read one of your op ads about as floodwaters rise, outdated standards make the nation unsafe. This seems to be a lot of what we're talking about right now. And, you know, which are all the more reason for people to ask more questions? I mean, what can we do about the fact that things are getting worse and we feel like we're just standing there and the water's rising around us?

00:16:45:15 - 00:17:21:12
Rob Moore
Well, I will say FEMA knows the problem that it has with its standards and is working to address it. So in 2021, the association of State Floodplain Manage Managers joined NRDC and what's known as a petition for rulemaking, which is basically we laid out to FEMA all of the reasons why they had a legal obligation to update these standards that had not been reviewed since the 1970s.

00:17:21:12 - 00:17:40:06
Rob Moore
And FEMA. FEMA, to its credit, concurred with our with our petition and is making headway now in developing new standards. And hopefully, knock on wood, we're going to see new regulations proposed sometime in the next 12 months.

00:17:40:19 - 00:17:57:10
George Siegal
Now, you said they did the first step. They asked the public for input, which, okay, that's good. But now that they have the input, let's have the plan. I mean, I would be, you know, if my house flooded and I knew somebody had the secret sauce to maybe save me, that would be infuriating.

00:17:59:00 - 00:18:24:00
Rob Moore
Well, yeah, it is. It goes. The wheels of government sometimes turn much more slowly than we would like them to. I mean, on the one hand, you know, FEMA. FEMA could have simply said, well, you're right, we haven't updated this 15 year, 50 years. Yes, it's time to do that since the statutes very clear on that obligation.

00:18:25:20 - 00:18:46:07
Rob Moore
You know, the question I think, before the agency now is what changes are we going to make? How far are we going to go and we await we await that answer. And every day that goes by and every flood that occurs, that answer becomes more and more pressing and more and more relevant now.

00:18:46:08 - 00:19:01:08
George Siegal
But it seems frustrating is like, okay, you don't have to cure cancer. How about just coming up with ways to maybe help along the way here? And if there are certain things they could just implement, even if they were dripping it out at us, it would be better than doing nothing.

00:19:01:08 - 00:19:45:03
Rob Moore
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you, but at least they are. They are doing something. And that's a step in the right direction. And that will also help provide a little bit of a bulwark, hopefully, against efforts to actually either freeze business, freeze building codes or even erode building code protections. We're seeing efforts in in some states, North Carolina comes to mind where state legislatures are actually passing bills to freeze building code improvements and plumbing codes and electrical efficiency codes at the behest of developers, essentially.

00:19:45:15 - 00:20:12:00
Rob Moore
And, you know, it's really a shame that we're doing that because it's just going to lead to homes that are less safe than they could be less efficient, which means the cost of owning that home is going to be even higher. You know, in the form of higher utility bills, higher water bills, higher risks to flood hazards and higher insurance costs.

00:20:12:00 - 00:20:43:19
George Siegal
Yeah, as a Floridian and I've experienced the problems getting homeowner's insurance, and then they jack up your rates, and then you have to find a new company. And all the companies that are leaving. I mean, I want something done and I don't care who does it. Show me a hero. Somebody step up and let's let's help people. But that's why I think things like I do and I hope what you guys do, if we can inform the public and get people to demand more, I think that's really the way it has to almost start from the bottom up, because if we say, look, I'm tired of you dumping all this crap on me, I'm not

00:20:43:20 - 00:20:53:16
George Siegal
going to reward builders anymore for building a substandard house. I'm not going to move into a neighborhood that's likely to flood. I think that's the way we can maybe effect some change from our end.

00:20:54:08 - 00:21:22:08
Rob Moore
Absolutely. And that is a powerful force for change at city councils and county boards and even state legislatures across the country. You know, there's a growing number of people whose lives have been turned upside down or disrupted because of because of disasters. And there's that number of people is growing alarmingly fast. And they are starting to call for these types of changes.

00:21:22:08 - 00:22:08:19
Rob Moore
There's there's a wonderful group we work very closely with called the Anthropocene Alliance, which is a network of disaster survivors from all over the country. Most of them have been affected by floods, but a growing number of their membership is focused on wildfires out West. And they are they're becoming a much more vocal and potent force in their local in their local towns and in state capitals and even with federal agencies trying to advance these types of protections that we need, because ultimately, these policy shortfalls that groups like NRDC are trying to correct, they result in real life impacts to real people.

00:22:08:22 - 00:22:24:03
Rob Moore
And real people's homes. So remedying these things is critically important. Otherwise, we are destined to remain behind the curve of climate change and simply reacting to each and every disaster as it occurs.

00:22:25:01 - 00:22:43:07
George Siegal
Now, in other, one of your op ed's to me is something we touched on a little bit in my last film. But as climate risk risks worsen, U.S. flood buyouts fail to meet the need. You know, that's we have such freedoms in this country of we can do what we want. We can go where we want. People can't tell us what to do.

00:22:43:15 - 00:22:51:07
George Siegal
So buyouts versus the government saying you can't live there anymore, that's too dangerous. What is the what is the dance there?

00:22:52:04 - 00:23:29:00
Rob Moore
Buyouts are a tool that are employed to help people move out of areas that are unsafe and in many cases, move towards higher ground. So what happens typically is, is a person lives in a home that's probably flooded repeatedly. And at some point they and possibly their neighbors are just sick of it. And they find out that there's federal funding available sometimes that can enable the purchase of their home and allow them to relocate.

00:23:29:23 - 00:24:07:23
Rob Moore
So it's sad, but often these efforts are initiated because homeowners are just fed up and they have to advocate for themselves to make these things happen. And what usually happens is they are basically embarking on a journey that can last 3 to 5 years or longer before that buyout comes to fruition. And that's a really frankly, that's kind of a cruel way to provide that type of assistance.

00:24:07:23 - 00:24:36:14
Rob Moore
What typically happens is a flood disaster occurs up to a year, can pass before a local community even offers the option of a buyout. At that point, it's often too late. A person may have already rebuilt and decided, I'm not interested anymore. If somebody does raise their hand and say, yes, I have to get me. I have to get myself and my family out of this situation.

00:24:36:14 - 00:25:01:14
Rob Moore
So they express interest. And little do they know that it's going to be a long time before this ever plays out. We need to speed that up. Since 1993, which was a year of massive flooding in the Midwest, it was a 500-year flood on the Mississippi River, which and it was the first disaster where FEMA employed buyouts in a big way.

00:25:01:14 - 00:25:43:11
Rob Moore
They purchased thousands of homes, primarily in Missouri and Illinois and other upper Mississippi River basin states. Since 1993, we have bought out approximately 45,000 homes. So at that pace, over the next 90 years, which takes us just past the end of this century, you know, we will purchase about 135,000 homes when you compare that number to the 4 to 5 million people whose homes will be inundated at high tide, just by three feet of sea level rise, or the 14 million people who whose homes will be inundated by six feet above sea level rise?

00:25:44:02 - 00:26:30:16
Rob Moore
That's a huge gap. You know, the way we're delivering that assistance today is completely inadequate to respond to the challenges that we are looking at right now. And that doesn't even take into account homes, the millions more homes at risk from storm surge due to hurricanes or even inland flooding or any of the other hazards that we already see displacing people in other parts of the country, whether it's wildfire or the extreme heat that's broiling huge swaths of the United States this week and last week, or water scarcity, which is also starting to lead to people being displaced from their homes in the southwestern U.S..

00:26:31:03 - 00:26:49:07
George Siegal
You know, when I was making my film, The Last House Standing, we found Henk Ovink, and he's from the Netherlands. We saw him on 60 Minutes. And over there the government made people move from dangerous areas. But that's not that easy to do in this country because it's not a federal decision, is it?

00:26:49:07 - 00:27:17:18
Rob Moore
Yeah, that's generally correct. Land use decisions are the jurisdiction of local governments and state governments. So the federal government, with some notable exceptions, doesn't have a lot of control over what you can and can't do on a particular parcel of land. There may be permitting requirements that you have to meet, but they don't they don't generally have the ability to say, thou shalt not build their thou shalt build over here.

00:27:17:18 - 00:27:34:11
Rob Moore
But that's where we need to get to. And that's one of the things that that we want to see is an outcome through the National Flood Insurance Program regulations we talked about earlier, where higher standards are going to start to make it a little clearer that there are certain areas that are just too risky to build in.

00:27:34:11 - 00:28:06:03
Rob Moore
And if you're going to build in them, you're going to have to meet such a high standard that maybe the cost gets you get you to rethink that decision. And we are also seeing a problem with we're seeing this already play out. You're in Florida where this is an acute problem, where insurance companies now are just starting to pull out of states because they they can't make money insuring properties that there are destined to pay out damage claims on.

00:28:06:23 - 00:28:27:11
Rob Moore
So, you know, we're seeing this happen in Florida. We're seeing this happen in Louisiana, and we're seeing this happen in California. I'm not sure what the insurance industry strategy here is. Are they all just kind of is the business just going to keep contracting until only Wisconsin and Minnesota are the only insurable states a hundred years from now?

00:28:28:02 - 00:29:00:13
Rob Moore
I don't think that's a viable business strategy. So my hope is that we're going to start seeing insurance companies get much more involved in these local proceedings on establishing stronger building codes, stronger zoning ordinances, as well as just weighing in on local land use decisions. So like when building permits are issued, you know, a city council should be acutely aware of the fact that, like, you can you can allow that building to go up, but nobody's going to insure it.

00:29:00:18 - 00:29:21:21
Rob Moore
So therefore, what you're just going to be stuck with a vacant building over there at some point? These are all things that we need to be revisiting and rethinking very quickly. And the good news is that that is starting to happen at various levels of government and hopefully we'll be making better decisions soon enough.

00:29:22:16 - 00:29:44:01
George Siegal
Well, I applaud the people that keep an eye on this kind of stuff so things don't happen. I read an article recently, I think it was Captiva Island, where they wanted to rebuild this one resort but make it a lot bigger than it was previously. And they were trying to sneak it through the system. And so people go, okay, well that's good that, you know, more tax money and there'll be more people coming to enjoy this.

00:29:44:01 - 00:30:01:08
George Siegal
But then it's like there's one road out of there in an emergency. People couldn't get out safely last time if they didn't leave early. And now you want to put a whole bunch more people out there. It's like we really have to watch everything that goes on on a local level because it's not always in everybody is best interest.

00:30:01:08 - 00:30:05:13
George Siegal
It's the people that are down there maybe looking out after their own interests.

00:30:06:21 - 00:30:43:08
Rob Moore
Yeah, it's a problem that local communities have. You know, developers, deep-pocketed developers, are often very quick to sue if they get a building permit or a zoning variance denied. And, you know, a city or a town is often very risk averse when it comes to litigation because it can be even if you're going to win, even if you are on strong leave, even if you're on good legal ground, it still costs money and it still costs time to enter into litigation if you're sued.

00:30:43:17 - 00:31:09:18
Rob Moore
So sadly, too many communities, I think, just say let's just give them the permit and avoid the hassle which just which just empowers poor decision-making all around. It sets bad precedents and it sets us up for failure in the future. And we're just going to spend more money correcting the problem later than we would have spent avoiding the problem in the first place.

00:31:09:18 - 00:31:27:12
George Siegal
Yeah, I think when we build in dangerous areas and what's interesting is the people that take the risk to be in the most dangerous areas are really affecting everybody else's insurance rates. When there's damage. It's like we've been lucky here in Tampa. We haven't had a bull's eye, but we're still paying for it. Now. When we have ours, it's going to be bad.

00:31:27:12 - 00:31:40:20
George Siegal
Ian would have wiped us out last year. I think we just got so incredibly lucky. But you know, that's something to think about is, you know, it could all go away. So quickly. I think a lot of us take it for granted.

00:31:42:08 - 00:32:06:04
Rob Moore
Yeah, I think you're right. And you know, the future the future is a lot riskier than it used to be. And we just have to take that into account for the decisions we make and whether that's at the individual level or we're talking about, well, whether that's the level of the individual or that goes all the way up to the president and Congress to.

00:32:06:17 - 00:32:14:19
George Siegal
You know, the next few months are going to be scary here in Florida. The water in the Gulf right now is in the mid to upper nineties. In some places it's like bath water.

00:32:15:09 - 00:32:46:08
Rob Moore
Yeah. And that's that is really scary, especially when you're talking about hurricanes. That is the engine for intensifying hurricanes. And we've seen we've seen these rapidly intensifying storms the last few years. Hurricane Michael was like that. Hurricane Ian was like that. So you know these things. Yeah, August, September and October. I'm really hoping for a boring end to hurricane season.

00:32:46:08 - 00:32:51:20
Rob Moore
But as you say, the water temperatures are pointing to a different result.

00:32:52:14 - 00:33:00:00
George Siegal
Yeah, there was a buoy down in the Keys that registered a temperature of close to 100. I mean, that's warmer than some people heat their hot tubs.

00:33:00:10 - 00:33:06:09
Rob Moore
I know it's yeah, it's it's a it's a whole new ballgame out there.

00:33:06:19 - 00:33:22:13
George Siegal
And even if it's not a hurricane that affects I was reading that the coral reefs of Florida are all in danger. I mean, there's other the things that, you know, we're talking about homeowners here, but there's so many other environmental risks that we didn't even touch on that. You really have to think of it all, don't you?

00:33:23:15 - 00:33:56:01
Rob Moore
Yeah, it's you know, climate change is affecting everything. It's not just flooding. It's not just heat. It's what's happening to the oceans. It's what's happening to our communities. It's what's happening to other natural systems out there. So it's just becoming with each passing day, it becomes more and more clear that we have to both eliminate as quickly as possible the root causes of climate change, you know, our own emissions of carbon dioxide and other forms of greenhouse gases.

00:33:56:01 - 00:34:11:10
Rob Moore
And at the same time, we have to dramatically ramp up our efforts to adapt to those unavoidable consequences. And we have to learn to make far better decisions that look much further into the future than we're used to.

00:34:12:14 - 00:34:28:14
George Siegal
All right. As we wrap this up, since you guys, I feel good that you guys are working on keeping stuff or trying to make things better from your end, what should homeowners think about on our end? What can we be more conscious of as we make those home-buying decisions or decisions where to live?

00:34:30:01 - 00:34:53:15
Rob Moore
I think we covered a lot of it at the top of the episode, George, but it's always worth recapping, you know, when you're looking at purchasing a new home or renting a new home, especially in a state like Florida that doesn't require a seller or a landlord to disclose, past flood damages, ask lots of questions, and also consult a lot of different sources of information.

00:34:53:15 - 00:35:25:14
Rob Moore
Don't be afraid to go knock on the door of your potential future neighbor and ask them about what flooding problems have occurred in that neighborhood. They are very likely to volunteer that information if they know that that you're, you know, potentially going to be affected by it. If you buy that home. Also, you can talk with local officials, maybe get to know your local emergency manager who might be able to also shed some light on those and consult FEMA flood maps.

00:35:25:22 - 00:35:58:21
Rob Moore
You know, for all the problems that we pointed out with FEMA flood maps, the areas that they identify as high risk are almost certainly high risk. The error is in is just outside of that envelope. Areas that probably are high risk but aren't mapped that way currently. So it's still worthwhile to look at the FEMA's flood maps. But just keep in mind that they may actually under predict the true risk of flooding today and far further into the future as well.

00:35:59:22 - 00:36:12:24
George Siegal
And I think the ultimate takeaway there is don't be afraid to ask questions. You know, don't be afraid to be the pesky person asking too many questions, because that knowledge could be the difference between losing everything or keeping what you're most valuable investment is.

00:36:13:07 - 00:36:43:03
Rob Moore
The other other question to get some answers to well before you decide to make your final decision to buy or rent home is to find out what the cost of a homeowner's policy is or a renter's policy and also a flood insurance policy. If the cost of the flood insurance policy is too high. Don't take that information into mind.

00:36:43:16 - 00:36:57:06
Rob Moore
The reason it's high, the reason the price might be high is because the risk is high. So don't decide just won't buy flood insurance. You might want to revisit whether that's the location you want to live in.

00:36:58:01 - 00:37:19:14
George Siegal
Yeah, and I think it helps. Don't just go by what posts people are putting on social media where they say, Yeah, I got my policy. Actually call yourself because you know, we experienced this with my son who turned 16 with auto insurance. We people posting they had great insurance. We can't find affordable insurance for him because we have to actually call and talk to them and fill out the paperwork.

00:37:19:20 - 00:37:26:07
George Siegal
So you have to do the work on the front side if you want to hope to have any kind of help on the backside. Right.

00:37:26:14 - 00:37:33:11
Rob Moore
Always important to get a quote, arm yourself with the best information so you can make the best possible decisions for you and your family.

00:37:34:05 - 00:37:43:04
George Siegal
Absolutely. Well, all your contact information and information will be in the show notes and I appreciate your time, Rob. A lot of great information. Thank you so much for coming on.

00:37:43:19 - 00:37:48:06
Rob Moore
Thanks a lot. It's always a pleasure to talk with you and always a pleasure to talk about these issues.

00:37:48:21 - 00:38:12:00
George Siegal
Thank you so much for joining me on today's Tell US How to Make a Better Podcast. As I mentioned, there are a lot of links in the show notes about what Rob was talking about today, and I certainly hope you will take advantage of those and get as much knowledge as you can before buying a house. And if you have a horror story or a great story you'd like to share about building or remodeling, use the contact form in there, reach out to me and who knows?

00:38:12:00 - 00:38:18:03
George Siegal
You might be featured on an upcoming episode of the podcast. Thanks again for listening today. See you next time.