Couldn't give a Trossard!

Discover what happens when the strategic prowess of Manchester United clashes with Liverpool's missed opportunities in a game that leaves fans on the edge of their seats. 

We kick off with a goal-by-goal breakdown of the 2-2 spectacle at Old Trafford, unpacking the defensive blunders and strategical chess that defined the match. Mike joins Jamie to dissect whether United's high-risk game under Ten Hag is a flash in the pan or a glimpse into a winning formula, and we scrutinize Liverpool's chances of ending their season with success after this pulsating encounter.

The drama doesn't stop there as we tackle the hotly debated penalty involving Wan-Bissaka and Elliot, along with Casemiro's hair-raising challenge. Our conversation takes a twist to Liverpool's European journey and the resilience of Manchester City, while not forgetting to shine a light on Arsenal's defensive masterclass propelling them towards a possible title. With sharp commentary from Mike, we don't shy away from Klopp's psychological tactics and the contentious Lamptey-Jesus penalty, offering you an arsenal of insights that go beyond the surface-level analysis.

Finally, we scrutinize Chelsea's stumbling blocks, and Everton's recent joy. The battle for fourth and relegation roulette. The VAR debate heats up in ref watch. We close out by considering the potential repercussions of domestic matches played abroad on the league's quality and the fabric of the fan experience, all while keeping you anchored in the passion that makes football more than just a game.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. Hello and welcome to the Late Kickoff Football Podcast.

Speaker 3: 0:58

That could be, that could be the catalyst hear about yourself, yeah it's tremendous to have you fighting through the pain, unlike one Gabriel Jesus, who was moaning about it this week. Yeah, I'm really good, mate. Thanks. A couple of really good games for us to get our teeth stuck into and then jump around some of the other games as well, before we crack on, obviously presented with the sad news this week that Joe Kinnear has passed away, and our thoughts go out to his family.

Speaker 3: 1:25

We're obviously too young to know him as a player, but reading some fantastic articles about his, his ability and his precious long dark-haired locks that he was so attached to as well, before going on to management, taking Wimbledon to a remarkable sixth place finish their joint best finish ever in the Premier League back in the season that we were born, and then known for spells elsewhere as well, and latterly at Newcastle as director of football, but diagnosed with dementia shortly thereafter, explaining perhaps some of the unfortunate press conferences that he had during his time at Newcastle, albeit they still remain a little bit humorous to look back on. But, as I say, thoughts go out to Joe Kinnear's friends and family. We will start this week I don't think it's any surprise at Old Trafford, with Manchester United 2 Liverpool 2.

Speaker 3: 2:28

Alejandro Garnaccia, servicing Wan-Bissaka and Meunier oh, it's beautiful, kobi Meunier with a wonderful Old Trafford goal with a wonderful old-trafford goal, incredible goal by Kobe Mayhew shortly after Bruno's Luis Diaz gave Liverpool a deserved lead in the 23rd minute of this game before going on to create a host of chances in the first half against another poor United performance.

Speaker 3: 3:00

But it was a 50th-minute mistake by Kwanzaa that allowed Bruno to execute quite a remarkable goal and United were gifted a way back into the game, much like on Thursday. Kobe Maynew then gave United the league with his first goal at Old Trafford. A memorable strike in the 67th minute, a Mo Salah penalty after an Aramwan Bissaka foul on Elliott in the United box brought Liverpool level and it set up a blockbuster finale. But that was the way the game finished, with honours, even Mike. It was another cracking contest between United and Liverpool. It's the second one we've had in the space of about a month and another kind of bonkers game for man United as well. It's like three in a week for them, with Brentford, chelsea and now Liverpool, and both teams probably came away feeling like that was a bit of a defeat.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Yeah, yeah, a special echo. I mean, the game should have been out of sight. Barely early doors, and Fernandes was the first man Jesse Knight shot, leaving on target just in the whole game for them as well. It shows you how inept they were in the first half. I think the shot in the first half is the third biggest discrepancy this season, and the only one that was even bigger was Manchester United versus man City.

Speaker 1: 4:15

So, as we talked about last week on the podcast, they're a team that gives up a lot of shots and it's all a bit of a mess, but somehow they're not getting too many defeats into the bargain, which is a very strange thing. Jonathan Wilson wrote what felt like a tongue-in-cheek piece in the Observer on Sunday about how elite players are not used to all this space and how they're used to being pressurised, and I think he called it invert pressing. And I think the fact that these Liverpool players were presented with so many opportunities across the three games that they've come against Manchester United and they've not won a single one is mind-boggling, to say the least.

Speaker 3: 4:53

Yeah, it's absolutely, because on that I was going to start with Liverpool, but on United, is there any method in Eric Ten Hag's madness? Because he allows teams, consistently allows teams to have an extraordinary amount of shots, but continues to get the results out of it. We were seeing all the stats in the week about the number of shots conceded against Brentford and Chelsea and they drew both those. Well, actually sorry, they did end up losing against Chelsea in a sort of shock ending, but we're very much in both those games and then again letting up 32 shots against Liverpool in this game I managed to come away with a point. Is it method in the madness or is it United have got some really good players and are sort of just about dragging themselves out of it with bits of individualistic brilliance, like well, bruno, in particular, I think a lot of focus has been put onistic brilliance like well, bruno, in particular, I think a lot of focus has been put on Kwanzaa's mistake, but that is an absolute screamer of a finish from Bruno.

Speaker 1: 5:52

Yeah, I mean, obviously it's an error because it drags everybody out of position, such as Kelleher. So Fernandes is allowed to make that, but it's an excellent finish. When people say, like people say, he scored from the halfway line to an empty net, it's like he just has to get on target, whereas Fernandes actually has to do a bit of work to still beat the goalkeeper from that position, as much as he's that far attractive from his lane. I think, on the point is, Manchester United are getting away with it this moment in because of players like Fernandes and their individualistic brilliance. What I said last week he's not really a team player but he does possess that skill.

Speaker 1: 6:29

But you see how exposed Casemiro was in this game. You see how exposed Maino was as a result of Casemiro towing the caravan. None of these players really track back whether it's Anthony Garnaccio, Rashford, Toiland, and that really puts a lot of pressure on that two-man pivot. And I think the issue is that Onana's having to make umpteen saves a game to keep man Utd in the score down and I don't think you can rely on the opposition making one or two errors, but you capitalise on them. Emeany himself scored an equally incredible goal and I just think there's instances where Manchester United look like they've got something and got it together, but they don't get it consistently through games. They don't get it consistently through a string of games.

Speaker 1: 7:15

I think that's where the issue lies. They're just too porous defensively, drawing too much on Onano, much like De Gea was in his prime as well. They've not got that cohesion and consistency moving forward that they score enough goals to win enough games. They just seem to be relying on moments. I'll say there's method to this madness, but personally I don't see it myself. We've seen pundits in the tele kind of nitpick these tactics and I think they're very easy and I think it's one of the reasons why they failed the Champions League group stages quite meekly as well, I think for themselves and Gloria. In a number of those games they just got dragged into shootouts against teams of lower calibre than themselves and they still got found out at that level. So I'm surprised they're this far up the table in this season. But I think that's just based on the fact that they do have players who can dig about holes, unlike the likes of Burnley, Brentfors, Bryans, etc.

Speaker 3: 8:11

Yeah, absolutely. I heard Dan Bardell, journalist for the Athletic, saying that Eric Ten Hag is so deluded as he comes out and says United play well almost every week that he probably thinks that these you know, the goal against Chelsea from the Caicedo error and the goal against Liverpool with the concert error come from his amazing tactics and his amazing pressing and he probably tells all the players that it's working, despite the fact it is quite clearly very specific individual mistakes. But back to Liverpool. They were excellent for pretty much this entire game, Mike. It looked like a training exercise in the first half.

Speaker 3: 8:57

A whole host of chances that they couldn't quite put away. Mo Salah in particular, missing from sort of three or four yards. You'd expect him to do better. A really strange one with Darwin Nunes, where it was an incredibly well-worked opportunity, Comes to Nunes at the back post for a tap-in and then he seems to himself try and cross it again. Sort of sums up Darwin Nunes at times, doesn't it? But I suppose you know. Are we seeing now? Are we really seeing what the market difference is between the former front three of Mane and Firmino together with a young Salah versus the current front three of Diaz and Nunes with an ageing Salah, Because Liverpool just seem incredibly wasteful in front of goal compared to what we would have been used to from them.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Yeah, but XC numbers aren't that bad. Obviously, this game exacerbates them, so they're creating and scoring roughly what you'd consider. But I do think you're right. It still is a downgrade, even though Darwin Nunes has got an incredible amount of goal contributions in 2024. His XG is.

Speaker 1: 10:04

I think him and Salah are basically pretty much the same XG, but he's scored five field goals in Salah, which shows you his profligacy in front of goal and that's kind of plagued him throughout his whole tenure at Anfield as well, and he's not quite the same kind of build up play that Firmino has. Nunes is pretty much an impact player, a very powerful player. That shows you into his goal scoring record as well. He loves to fucking hammer the ball into the back of the net rather than maybe a composed finish outside of that lovely chip that he had a few months ago on, and Bayern Munich ended up having to throw him on to Saudi Arabia as well, so it didn't quite work out from there. But Diaz isn't quite that player or quite that level. Nunez, he's a different player. He's an effective player, but he's very hot and cold and, like I said, salah's age and this could potentially be Salah's last season at Liverpool because of the wages that he's on and the age that he's at, and I mean it's not like Liverpool are going to give a wage increase and it's a good opportunity, in a sense, for the next manager to come in. But, like Aaron stood at Tottenham not to have the kind of em, what would I say? The shadow of Salah's contract looming over him, and the same goes with Van Dijk and the same goes with Trent, even though they're probably slightly different examples over them. Like Andrew with Kane Kane leaves. Andrew knows that he's got a car branch to mold the team into the way that he wants to build it, because they're missing the talents when they're missing the greatest ever player. Salah's not Liverpool's greatest a player. He's certainly in the conversation, perhaps for the greatest ever.

Speaker 1: 11:43

So I do think there's a case just to kind of shift him on and let the new manager kind of try and obviously continue on with what Klopp's done and doing in the jungle in a way. But I think it'd be more favourable if he's able to give a bit more autonomy. And I think it goes back to the fact that before the season a lot of us probably wouldn't have picked Liverpool to be chasing for the title. We wouldn't have picked them to maybe be chasing for the Champions League instead, and it shows how much Klopp's gone into rebuilding the squad and how quickly it's gone. Now they're actually back in title contention and battling on a few fours as well.

Speaker 1: 12:19

The new manager coming in has actually probably started from a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. I've caught kind of left the season previous when they were outside the Champions League looking in. So I do think there's a lot of work to be done and moving players on like Salah, who are ageing, and Van Dijk perhaps, is the question marks. But I do think that, yeah, that front three was exceptional back in its day and through the dynasty era of Liverpool, but it's just new and it's moving on and it's transforming. But it's just Diaz. Diaz had that hot streak, didn't he? For that first six months that he came in and he's been kind of shaky ever since. Obviously there's personal circumstances this season that's gone into his form being up and down, but yeah, it's certainly no money for Munoz Salah in his prime hour.

Speaker 3: 13:04

Yeah, and he's having a bit of a purple patch at the moment. He just seems to get himself into a lot of good positions and perhaps doesn't execute as well as you would have anticipated for, as you say, the player that we've seen in that first few months when he came in. Good points on the new manager as well. It was another question I was going to ask was that they've obviously still got a great chance of winning the league this season. They're drawing top at the moment and are generally going great guns, but it does strike me that we might be seeing signs of how difficult it could be for them next season. And it might be a positive, as you say, in that the new manager can come in with a sort of clean slate and paint his own picture, and it might take a couple of seasons for that to fully come to fruition.

Speaker 3: 13:47

Like Ange at Spurs, even Arsenal and Arteta, but slightly more positive, I guess the worry for Liverpool fans is the way it goes. Is Emery at Arsenal or Moyes at Liverpool, which they'll be open to avoid because you know the team's going to be very, very different next year. If Salah almost certainly moves on, van Dijk almost certainly moves on. That's kind of your core of what has got them so far over the years, and you're having to bring in a lot of those young players and I think it's going to take a manager with significant personality to be able to sort of keep doing what Klopp has been doing, and I'm not sure any of the names being touted around at the moment quite have that about him. And also, just it'd be interesting to see how another manager deals with Darwin Nunes.

Speaker 3: 14:35

I wonder if Klopp's sort of sheer size of personality is what helps kind of keep him pointing in the right direction and doing the things that Klopp wants him to do, because Nunes himself is obviously a big personality and you would have thought it would take somebody like Klopp to be able to get his message across, maybe doing Nunes a disservice. Who knows, don't know the guy personally. He likes people that draw horses and he was a good actor in the SC Johnson advert for Liverpool. So maybe it's really easy to get a point across. But it was something I was curious of given the sort of vociferousness of their interactions sometimes on the pitch during Sunday's game. Yeah, there was a couple of ref watch points for this one, mike.

Speaker 1: 15:25

So first up was the Aaron Wan-Bissaka tackle on Elliot for the penalty just a silly challenge to make Elliot's under no obligation to handle a challenge when he's in control of the ball. So the fact that Wan-Bissaka comes through him like I don't think he's, he's not. He's not winning the ball, he's impeded, elliot. So yeah, for me it's a penalty.

Speaker 3: 15:50

Yeah, I don't really. I say I don't know what the controversy is around this. The controversy only seems to come from man United fans. As usual, they're suggesting he takes a shorter stride to make sure there's contact. But a longer stride means he stands on Adam Wan-Bissaka's thigh. It's not like he does the old dangle his leg out at 45 degrees to the right to make sure he gets hit, or something like that. It seemed pretty obvious to me. I don't really know what the issue is. It's just a stick to beat VAR with at every opportunity, isn't it from a number of fans? So, yeah, I completely agree, it was a pen. I didn't think there was too much to get worked up about. And then there was a possible Casemiro red card. In the dying moments before a Liverpool free kick, mike, it came absolutely flying in again, which he did a couple of times in this game, and he did a number of times in the Chelsea game, and I think he's quite lucky in this one not to have seen red.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Yeah, I'd prefer challenges like this to be red cards. I think probably the only thing that saves them is the point of contact is quite low and I think there's enough kind of leeway to get away with booking them rather than send them off. And I think it's well those ones where the VAR's not going to intervene and change the referee's mind in that instance.

Speaker 3: 17:08

Yeah, no, I think you're probably right point of contact and the fact I can't remember who the Liverpool player was, but he rides it pretty well. There's sort of a similar one where he tackles Diaz as well and the referee knows he's blowing up after that free kick perhaps saves him too to an extent. But yeah, they were probably the two big moments. Liverpool, both Palace, next United, travel to Bournemouth. Liverpool are in Europa League duty as well, on Thursday against remind me Mike Atalanta, atalanta, of course, no mugs, obviously, but I think Liverpool Mike will be going into that, obviously expecting to get through the tie.

Speaker 3: 17:59

Atalanta good side, do very well in Serie A at the moment, not the Atalanta side of two, three years ago that we've seen sort of going deep in the Champions League. It was the Covid season, wasn't it, when they were quarter-finalists against City, if I remember rightly. So, yeah, not quite the same task. But I think the worry for Liverpool is just squad depth, isn't it? They've played sort of three games in a week and they're about to play three games in a week again, and it's going to take a bit of rotation to keep fighting on both those fronts.

Speaker 1: 18:33

Yeah, I think the hope is that this game, because it's at home the first leg, ideally they can get out of sight and then rotate in the second leg. Like I said, they're a decent team. They're still then rotate in the second leg. Like I said, a decent team. They're still kicking in the top beaches of the city but, yeah, not the team they once were and, like, this is a conversation for like another day.

Speaker 1: 18:56

But you look at some of the players that are in the Atlanta looking at it's Ziad Kolasnic, it's Martin Deroon who's at Middlesbrough. These are players who are playing their kind of lower reaches or the kind of score rotation depths of Premier League teams. So it's like there's still a chance that you can rotate against some of the better teams from the other nations because of the almighty strength of the Premier at a lot of these teams and they've got to try and make way with what they do. But a few other names like Zappa, costa and Scamacca. So it's full of guys who have been in the Premier League in the past but didn't quite make it at this level, but not doing well for Atlanta. But we should see Liverpool safely through the margin anyway.

Speaker 3: 19:38

Fantastic Right from Old Trafford then to Selhurst Park.

Speaker 2: 19:44

Broyne, now in the penalty area, hits the shot in the net 1-1. I said it was coming. It was only a matter of time and Kevin De Bruyne, with a bending right foot, shot into the corner of the net. They call it the postage stamp. It absolutely nestled in the corner of the letter and City are back at 1-1.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Absolute screamer by Kevin De Bruyne to bring Manchester City level there at the weekend. Mateta gave Palace an early lead in the fourth minute but City took control thereafter and cranked up the pressure. As I say, a quite stunning equaliser from Kevin De Bruyne meant the teams went in at half-time level. But the game was going one way and shortly after the break Rico Lewis made it 2-1 to the visitors. Haaland, who's got a bit of a dejected figure in recent weeks, made it 3-1 before another terrific Kevin De Bruyne finish made it 4. Edouard got a late consolation for Palace and the match finished 2-4.

Speaker 3: 20:40

Oliver Glasner's struggle to start in the Premier League with Crystal Palace continues and man City will be happy to move forward and close that gap to the top of the league with Liverpool dropping points elsewhere. Yeah, a bit of an early scare for City. Mike Palace sort of have a reasonable record against them and have picked up a number of results in recent seasons and briefly wondered if it was going to go that way again against them and have picked up a number of results in recent seasons and briefly wondered if it was going to go that way again. But yeah, city sort of turned the screw, showed their quality. And I tell you what you can rest Phil Foden for 90 minutes and bring on Kevin De Bruyne. You're doing alright, aren't you?

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, the squad depth is remarkable and I just say, like I said, even De Bruyne, with all his injuries, he scored some amount of goals in 2024 as well. Like I said, haaland being off the ball once again, they're still chipping in and then contributing something that I think it's just like job done. And then Palace are obviously trying to build their team for next season. Try and get the plans in place. Try and get the plans in place, try and get Glasner's points across.

Speaker 1: 21:45

And they were in the game, and it surprised me that Glasner hadn't won a game since joining pass. But in a sense that they don't necessarily need to because they're in relative safety, they're not going to move too far up the table. I think they've been 14 for the last two seasons. They'd be happy enough to finish that again if they manage to kick on next season. And they've had their injury problems, of course, of their own. So I think it was a very good result for City because, like I said in the past on the Roy Hodgson's teams, whether it's home or away, they've come a couple of months in place.

Speaker 3: 22:19

Yeah, absolutely, with City being a point away from the leaders. Now there seems to be a. We've kind of gone back to that. Oh well, city will just win all their games and win the league, and Arsenal and Liverpool will slip up. But at some point and the Opta supercomputer now has it did have Liverpool as sort of 45% favourites. It's now got City as sort of, I think, 38% favourites, something like that, a fair bit ahead of the other two.

Speaker 3: 22:47

But I think this game to me, mike, shows that City are very much still fallible. Palace created chances, obviously the early one, edouard getting a goal late on, vardy always hooked at half time because he was having a really poor performance and it's not. They're not. The result would suggest that this game went entirely their own way, and for most of it it did, but sort of. In the broader picture of things, in terms of their overall form, they're not necessarily getting it all their own way, or particularly not at the back no, I'm sorry, palace only had about six or seven shots, but three of them were really good chances.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Two of them were the goals and one of them was Edouard's chance five minutes before he got his goal as well. That was blocked. So they are open, they are expansive, they know how to get teams know that they can exploit them when they counter attack, and Pep's not quite figured out how to remedy that yet. But it's another game where Rodri is still not being beat as a player. They're still kicking on, they're still fighting on all fronts as well, and it's like when you're bringing on likes of Akanji to show up the defence because of Vardy Hall's poor first half. You're bringing on Mateo Kovacic to kind of see out the game and you're bringing on Matthias Nunes, who's kind of a forgotten man, but Manchester City spent a lot of money on him in the summer to bring him on board as well. You can see how it all kind of fits in place and how I mean.

Speaker 1: 24:19

Ferguson always said the hardest thing to do when you win the title is go and do it again, because you're trying to lift the same players to achieve the same thing that they just achieved, and it's hard to do that.

Speaker 1: 24:29

It's hard to keep going to the well. So the fact that City are still in the fight and they're still in the battle for it and they're still battling for the Champions League has to be commended, because they're having a bit of an off-season in First City. That means they're just chasing a wee bit rather than being ten points and streaking clear of everybody else. So I think you still have to commend the fact that they're a team motor and on they're still a team evolving and they're still a team trying to put the bits together. I think for the most part, they've been exceptional, even if we want to nitpick a few things here and there. I think that's what you have to do, pep Guardiola teams, because it's such a well-run, functioning machine that you have to kind of pull out the threads of the one or two things that are a bit poor, deficiently wise, and I think it is the fact that they are just a bit susceptible in the kind of way.

Speaker 3: 25:19

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3: 25:21

The only reason we're almost picking holes at them is because Liverpool and Arsenal have managed to go toe to toe for the length of the season, isn't it? If this was perhaps a more ordinary season and City were 8 points clear at the moment, we probably wouldn't be speaking about it at all, probably wouldn't be speaking about them at all. You know, you make a very good point there. It's just, it is interesting to see and it hopefully means that it keeps this kind of title race ticking on. We're obviously fewer and fewer games as the as the weeks go on, and all three of them remain sort of separated by a ball here at most. So I think, what have we got? Seven, seven games to go, six games to go, six games, I believe, for most teams anyway, yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:06

Yeah, we've got a couple of midweek games to come up with. A few teams on 32, but most on 31. Chelsea on 30. Yeah, you're absolutely right, completely agree. We weren't going to do a sort of full section on it, but the final title antagonists were Arsenal. They ran out 3-0 winners against Brighton and looked remarkably assured again against an opponent that's caused them some real difficulty in recent seasons. Their defence just looks absolutely solid, a bit unlike City, as we've just been discussing Arsenal. If there's a team that seems to be screwing the nut and just going on to win every single game, mike, it seems to have been Arsenal in 2024.

Speaker 1: 26:48

No, absolutely. I didn't realise until I seen it that Brighton were undefeated at home in the Premier League since August. So they've been 12 games unbeaten. So it was a very good emphatic win down the Amex and, like I said, the Brian were all limited to pot shots. I think.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Way on in the game I think Gabriel made a block and was cheered on like it was a goal and I think it shows you how much the defensive solidity I think that's one thing we always say about all the great teams. But the other great teams are also very good at the back. The Arsenal team, more than most, are exceptional. So I think they are seeing the value in being defensively stout, unlike Manchester United. Their wingers do track back. Saka's very endeavoured to go back and help out his full-backs. The same with Marinelli when he plays, and I think that Jorginho, who you'd probably say pace-wise, is kind of struggling with his legs as much as somebody like Casemiro is, but he's not vulnerable in that situation. I mean he pops up for the assist for Habert's goal, which was a great piece of trickery to kind to bamboozle, dunk with his movement, to just tap in and it's just. It seems to be all click and all going in the right direction and I think that's testament to what this Arsenal team is. It knows what it is, it knows what its functions are and they're going about them in a very workmanlike manner.

Speaker 1: 28:22

And it's not necessarily always pretty, in a sense, because teams are very deep against them and they just don't know how to figure out what's up against them. They're not a team that's susceptible to a counter attack. They're not a team that you can play through. They're not a team you can out-physical with, like some Declan Nice in the midfield and Ben White who can invert. So they just seem to have all the components and I think if Linton does want to win the final, I think it will be Arsenal, because it's very hard to pick the flaws.

Speaker 1: 28:50

It's very hard to pick the threads that can come their way. I know they've got some difficult games on paper, like going to Tottenham and going to Manchester United potentially, which has been difficult for them in the past, but I think it's very hard to see where the holes are going to come, unless there's maybe an injury to a key player and you're going to have to play, the likes of Eddie and Keita, perhaps more games than you'd want If Rhys Nelson has to be involved more so than not. But even when you see Emeril Smith come on midweek, he had a man of a match performance. So I do think that if there's one team that's going to go into the minute title, it seems to be Arsenal, because there seems to be very few weekly seasons on the side.

Speaker 3: 29:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 29:30

I think it was interesting as well with Klopp playing a bit of mind games in his press conference at Old Trafford as well, saying if Arsenal go there they'll win easily because man United aren't a very good team, which on one hand is probably correct, but on the other hand it sounds like we haven't really had mind games for a while.

Speaker 3: 29:50

So, yes, it was interesting to hear that their defensive record is incredible. You know, their expected goals against 24 to City's 31 to Liverpool's 37 is a huge discrepancy at that end of the table. And they do say that defences win titles and we perhaps haven't seen that specifically in the last few seasons. And Arsenal have really focused on that and even with the likes of Timber getting injured in the first game of the season, seem to have just found a really solid winning formula at the back and also without Thomas Partey in front of them, who a lot of Arsenal fans would say is a really important cog in that team. I presume you thought it was a penalty then the Lamptey foul on Jesus. There seemed to again a bit of controversy around it.

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah, only because, fair enough, it was two boys whoostling for the ball and Lamptey kind of gets a nick on it and pushes it out of the way. Then you could argue the case like oh, that's fair enough, but Jesus was in control of the ball. Lamptey getting a touch only diverts ever so slightly. If he doesn't impede Jesus, jesus is still slightly. If he doesn't impede Jesus, he's used to still get onto that ball immediately and then bearing down on goal. So he's denied the opportunity to progress the ball into a better position, which is really the definition of a foul.

Speaker 1: 31:14

I don't quite understand the obsession with oh, you nick the ball. That means you're able to play the man. It's not the case. If he's able to really change the course of the direction of the ball, push out of Jesus' pass and then take something off the player, then that's fair enough. But he's not. He took a minor touch and Jesus would have still gone to the end of it and he still would have got a shot off. It would have hit Ozed because it's Jesus. But but nonetheless you can't do that to the fact of the referee's decision making. I think as a player I don't understand the kind of furor around it.

Speaker 3: 31:46

Yeah, I completely agree, it's a penalty. There's nothing in the laws about getting a touch on the ball. You know it's. Do you trip or attempt to trip your opponent? And he quite clearly trips his opponent, and I completely agree with you. Jesus is getting on the end of that anyway and kicking on. So again, I think the whole weekend has been a strange one for sort of we'll come on to some of the other decisions shortly but a bit of a strange weekend for, like a massive VAR for war that everyone's getting really wound up. And then you look at every single decision and you're like, yep, that was correct, yep, that was correct, yep, that was correct. Just seems to be the volume of them that's wound everybody up.

Speaker 3: 32:26

City host Luton next, hopefully, for my fucking fantasy team, haaland can recapture his five goal form that he got against them in the FA Cup and Villa travel to the Emirates to play Arsenal. That's obviously tough game for Arsenal, but Villa perhaps not the team that we had seen earlier in the season and have struggled away from home generally as well. But before that, man City and Arsenal play tonight in the Champions League. Man City, real Madrid, arsenal, barcelona, bayern Munich, with Harry Kane coming back City, real Mike. They played each other last year and the year before the year before Real Madrid getting that incredible comeback, which was just their season of incredible comebacks as they went on to win the Champions League, city, kind of putting that right last season and putting them to the sword.

Speaker 3: 33:19

A bit bit of a different proposition this year Jude Bellingham playing for Real Madrid. They're top of the league. They look like they'll probably win La Liga. Obviously, the other threats in Vinicius and Rodrigo. So it'll be a really interesting time for a team that struggle on the counter-attack. Really interesting time for a team that struggle on the counter-attack. You maybe don't want to be looking at the pace of Rodrigo and Vinicius, and again with Bellingham pushing that as well. So I think this man City-Real Madrid game could be a bit of a humdinger.

Speaker 1: 33:58

No, absolutely. Like I said, madrid are cup experts. They've built a whole brand on being the Champions League team. Ancelotti is obviously the Champions League manager, with all his success as a player. That goes into that as well. It's interesting the fact that the Opta stats say Manchester City's got a 61% chance of qualifying compared to Arsenal's 60%, because if you look at these teams on paper you'd say Madrid's's, as you said, they could be closely matched to Manchester City and exploit their weaknesses, whereas Bayern Munich I think they lost against Heidenheim, heidenheim, yeah and they were 2-0 up, yeah, and they're obviously just bereft of confidence at this moment in time.

Speaker 1: 34:39

But no, the City-Madrid match could be absolutely exceptional.

Speaker 1: 34:43

I think Rory Smith wrote a piece in the New York Times about how Real Madrid's possibly the most well-run team in the world at this moment in time.

Speaker 1: 34:50

When you consider the fact that a lot of the players come through and play at all levels of football, even if they don't make it at Real Madrid, like France and set it into the team, they've not got much waste of this moment in time. They're going all guns blazing on the kind of commercial side of the game and, like I said, they're top of the league and it's not necessarily. Their focus is not always to winning the Spanish title. Of course it's to get to these latter stages of competitions as well, and I think if they don't make it through this stage, I think it was only the third time in 14 years that they won't make the semi-finals of the Champions League, so they're very much built on this. So, even though City are going great guns themselves, I'd honestly make that a coin to us, to be honest not saying I watch Remedied every week, but the players that they have are of equal talent to the man City players. So I don't see it being this kind of wide discrepancy in odds, as it perhaps is.

Speaker 3: 35:48

Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm really looking forward to it. It's a shame that these two ties have ended up on the same side of the draw. Can't kind of give them both your full focus, with PSG, barcelona and Dortmund, atleti tomorrow night? Arsenal, bayern, as you say, bayern are struggling this season by their own lofty standards and Leverkusen running away with the league.

Speaker 3: 36:17

Harry Kane, albeit scoring plenty of goals for Bayern Munich, but hasn't managed to drag them out of the sort of mire that they've ended up in with Tuchel. They are a heavyweight, though, and sometimes you only need to land one punch, as the cliche goes, for them to knock Arsenal out. But you just think, with Arsenal's defensive solidity at the moment against a team that are struggling, perhaps the other thing that Arsenal need to be concerned about in Bayern's favour is that this is kind of their season now. This is all they've got to worry about. So they are going to go for it all guns blazed and, as you would expect, arsenal, obviously with a bit of focus on the Premier League at the same time. So I do think this is maybe closer than it would look on paper in terms of just the quality of both of the teams and how they're playing at the moment, just with some of the intangibles. In terms of predictions, mike, I think I can see City drawing tonight. To be honest, I think a 1-1 draw for City, but a 2-0 win for Arsenal.

Speaker 1: 37:22

Yeah, that feels about right. I think the only thing going against Arsenal in this tie's narrative isn't it is the return of Harry Kane and it's the fact that the last three games against Bayern Munich have been 500 defeats. But this is a far cry from the end of the Arsene Wenger tenure and this is a far cry from the peak Bayern Munich era where it was full of the German superstars and now it's got the ageing boys of Müller and Neuer. So I think no, I don't necessarily just want to agree on everything you've said there, but no, I think those scorelines, I think both teams as well would be very happy with those outcomes.

Speaker 3: 38:01

Yeah, absolutely. We'll move on to the rest of the Premier League, just sort of jump around the games, to be honest, rather than spending too much time on any of them. Villa 3, brentford 3, villa dropping points again from a position of strength, being 2-0 up against Brentford. It was a hell of a comeback Three goals in nine minutes and a phenomenal goal by Zanka to get them going, mike.

Speaker 1: 38:28

It's not quite strange. At this moment it's almost like they're on the beach. But in the Champions League, at home, they were just imperious for this long period of time and now they're playing a part of the scenes. I don't know if it's like a regression to demean or it's just the fact that they don't have the squad depth to keep going. But John McGinn was back in the side and you think you're more on the way here. You're 2-0 up against a side that's still got the belief in.

Speaker 1: 38:58

Like I said, it's funny how some games you just they lose their own themselves and it's just like one moment can ignite a comeback. And because it's so quick fire, like I said, three goals in nine minutes then it just falls to pieces. But I can show you still the strength on the side and that Emre's built that even with the capitulation and no doubt fans get on their back a bit after conceding three goals that they still go on to get the equaliser. But they actually they did this before. It was against Luton, where they they fell apart and then they eventually got the win.

Speaker 1: 39:30

I think they did it against Forrest as well, where they conceded two quick five goals and went on to win. So it shows you, when they do concede and let teams back in, they still have another gear that they can go on and win or pick up a point once again. But just the fact that Ollie Watkins has been a real revelation this season, more so than I know. He's been consistently good, but it feels like he's gone up an extra gear and I think obviously being coached by Emery for the last 18, 18 months or so, opposed to Steven Jarrett, has really done wonders for his career yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 40:04

If anyone hasn't seen that Zanka, go have a look, because he centre half in the middle of the box, takes a huge swing at it with his right foot, completely misses it and it deflects off his left foot and goes in anyway. His face is sheepish, to say the least. Brentford still not out of it in terms of the relegation fight, mike. They find themselves 15th. They've jumped above Everton for reasons We'll come on to, four points clear of Luton on the same number of games. Everton with a game in hand. It's tough for them. They haven't won three draws in a row, two defeats before that. They do really need to start finding wins somewhere to drag themselves out of that. Because of Luton, nottingham and Everton all have a win within their last couple of games and that four point gap will very quickly disappear.

Speaker 1: 40:56

Yeah, could do. Don't sound convinced. I just think Bradford are my West Ham this season, don't worry about I. Just think Brentford have the best time this season. Don't worry about them the next three years. Now I've said that the next three are Sheffield, dutton and Everton, and if those are all three of those games, then they're immediately dragging the shit, aren't they? But I do think they have enough in the tank. I know Tony's not being on his fire and best attack. I know Tony's not been on it. He's firing best since he's came back. But him and Mbrembo can hopefully kick something down the stretch here.

Speaker 1: 41:28

I just don't, I don't. I know I know Dan's, obviously of this parish, is a Brentford fan, but I just don't feel like the vibes around Brentford are too negative. It's just a bit of a down season, more so than anything. They realise they probably have to recruit better in the summer. They need to have some strength and depth. I know they've missed a lot of key players which the team would struggle with, but Brentford perhaps more so at this moment in time, and I just think they still have enough in the tank to see them over the line. It might not be spectacular, it might not be pretty, but I think they'll be okay in the end. But yeah, I suppose for the next three games you do have to worry. If they do turn into defeats then they will definitely be looking over their shoulder. But I think Sheffield obviously wasn't an easy game for Chelsea, but it's usually an easy game for most of the teams in the division.

Speaker 3: 42:16

Yeah, it'd be interesting. The relegation battle could end up being a bit of a ding dong. Come the end, spurs 3, forest 1 means they go fourth, with Villa dropping points, chris Wood carrying on his great form. Fucking brilliant to see big Chris Wood back at the forefront of the Premier League. A tremendous goal and then also a tremendous miss when he nearly snapped the post in two from a couple of yards. Not entirely sure why he tried to hit it that hard, to be honest, like I watch it back and I think why did you just roll that in? Why have you kicked the ball as hard as you possibly can? The flex outside the box on the far side, it was genuinely bonkers.

Speaker 3: 42:58

And then great commentary on Match of the Day with saying Van de Ven, fastest man in the league and perhaps with the fastest shot in the league as well, because he absolutely rifled it in the top corner before Pedro Porro sealed. All three points for Spurs. But an interesting Spurs. They remain fun to watch and Timo Werner seems to have sort of cut himself a bit of a niche there. And you would have thought that Spurs will probably take Leipzig up on their option to buy in the summer and keep him in the side Because, well, as long as you don't put him in a one-on-one situation, he tends to be quite effective.

Speaker 1: 43:37

Yeah, sometimes players just fit a shirt, don't they? And it feels like Werner's got a really nice fit there and the only way of talking to him and, like I said, he's not going to have to be dependent on to score the goals, because that's Son's job, that's potentially Richarlison's job and it's just more of the kind of way that Andrew wants to play, probably Fahey versus his kind of style but his kind of pressing. So you're right, as long as he hasn't have to make a decision in front of goal, then he's really much the archetype kind of player for that Tottenham attack and I think maybe you'd raise your eyebrows when you brought him in because you're thinking like that front floor kind of looks so that it kind of excel, kind of knows what it's doing. Everybody's got a role and a job. But I'll show them the Champions League potentially next season. Well, I say potentially. I think them and Villa are quite safe now and no spots on them. They'll need the depth and they'll need the quality and I think Werner will bring that.

Speaker 3: 44:37

But, yeah, don't give him an opportunity to shoot, otherwise he's going to have to go reserve a foul yeah, it's just, you stay wide of the six yard box at all times, timo, and you just worry about crossing that square and everyone will be very happy. Luton 2-1 against Bournemouth, getting revenge with their own late winner to keep survival hopes alive by a thread. It was a an important win for them, given the way some of the other results went, mike. It puts them on the same points as Nottingham Forest, four goals behind in terms of the goal difference. But yeah, they really needed to convert one of these performances into three points. They've had a number of them recently, as we've discussed. Kind of make sure that lifts them away from Burnley again a little bit as well, and they're just continuing to keep their hopes alive.

Speaker 3: 45:28

Rob Edwards is doing a fantastic job. He's very grounded and it's quite funny when they said in his interview I can't remember what the question was about him celebrating this win and he said or he'll sleep well because of the win, and he said he'll be having nightmares because he's playing Manchester City next. Just quite funny. But yeah, it's. Bournemouth are sort of on the cusp of joining Fulham on the beach. I think Fulham have got the sun lounger ready and Bournemouth are just kind of like having a wee look over their shoulder and deciding whether to go or not. But that said Luton had to get it late and they'll be delighted. That said Luton had to get it late and they'll be delighted?

Speaker 1: 46:04

No, absolutely. They're just very effective at home, aren't they? And that's really where the source of their points have come from. They're always in games They've scored. I know Arsenal broke the duct, but obviously they scored 18 straight games, or something like that, in the Premier League.

Speaker 3: 46:17

Yeah, it was yeah until Arsenal.

Speaker 1: 46:19

When you consider the fact that a lot of teams have struggled to score goals this season, that's very impressive for a side who are very much seen as the underdogs. I think they've played well to the fact that they've kind of emboldened the spirit of Kenilworth Road and kind of put that imprint on their team and the way that they play. They're very up and at them. They're very much won't give you a second's peace, but they're getting a play with a freedom. I mean, you see how good Ross Bartley is kind of a big fish in a small pond there how he's allowed to express himself as much as the way he was when he was an Everton player, I imagine about 10 years or so ago.

Speaker 1: 46:56

So the fact that Rob Edwards has got them this close to survival now obviously he's been aided by the fact that clubs are getting point deductions. But I think a lot of people, including myself when I said Dwayne would have been relegated by now, so for them to still be within a real shot of staying up with six games left. I think they'll do it. Probably not, but the fact that they're still there with a shot shows you how much Rob Edwards has managed to get this team moving in the right direction and managed to expel all the outside noise which had them doomed before the ball was even kicked.

Speaker 3: 47:30

Yeah, tremendous. And on that Everton won brownly nil. Dominic Calvert-Lewin burst his drought last weekend but then got a sort of drought-bursting goal this weekend with a keeper just smashing it off a minute going in the back of the net. And yeah, they won that one. There was a bit of ref watch in this game.

Speaker 3: 47:54

The Darrow Shea red card for the tackle on Dwight McNeil. Vincent Company came out complaining that it was never a red card and it can't be dog-toe because he wasn't going to get to the ball. We discussed this one before we came on air, mike, I think. I think the red cards for serious foul play as much as it possibly could have been for for dogs. So, um, it's a really high tackle, it's a proper lunge in as well and it's just it.

Speaker 3: 48:18

It's not even for me necessarily just to tackle the tackle's silly and Burnley really couldn't do with that at the moment if they were going to have any hope of dragging themselves out. But why the fuck are they so high Like? Why is that the last Burnley defender, like on the halfway line in the 56th minute or whatever it was. It's absolute madness, like, really. I genuinely think that Vince and company's managed to avoid some difficult questions in terms of the structure of his team over the course of the season. It's almost like they're so bad that he's getting away with it, like folk are like oh well, the environment is absolutely terrible, so it can't be company's fault. But there are a lot of moments like that where you think what the fuck is his instructions and why are they finding themselves in that?

Speaker 1: 48:57

yeah, they're a befuddling team in the sense that they just seem to be all over the shop and listen. If he wants to play it from the back, fair enough, I understand, like you take the necessary disc for that. They expose themselves a few times, quite obviously for the Calvert-Lewin goal which, like just shows you why like XG and things like that do exist, because that was not a great penalty last week but managed to sneak over the line and obviously it comes off your bollocks and lobs the goalkeeper. I mean that's not necessarily the way that Cavalier expects to start his goal scoring streak. But they're a strange team. You can obviously see what they're trying to do. You know, maybe taking the hit this season to try and come back next season.

Speaker 1: 49:43

Enough people say like, oh, they're willing to go and do it to come back next season. But it's not. As you see with Sepantum this season, it's not as easy as just saying that you're going to do that. You need to kind of execute it and you don't want to get caught in that kind huge sums of money with financial fair play hanging over you as well. But the fact that this is everyone's first win since they beat Burnley in December, yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 1: 50:11

But it just shows you also with the points deduction, it shows you how poor these three teams at the bottom are and like where Luton are getting the pass this season because they were the team expected to be buried underneath the weight of the whole division. Like any other season with two other competent promotion sides like Luton would be seen as an afterthought and it's only because they're giving us something interesting to talk about, because they're an interesting side and they're actually trying hard and they're endeavouring that they're kind of getting a pass. But this Burnley side and this Sheffield side are so, so poor. They've been the top 5 teams or should I say bottom 5 teams that have existed in the Premier League years, I would assume.

Speaker 3: 50:54

It's kind of mad to think that Everton should be 10 points clear of their relegation zone and they're only 2. That is genuinely bonkers. They've got 9 wins, which is more than Brentford or Palace above them, and we put them sort of way, much, way more in like sort of contention. We catch them in your Fulhams and your Bournemouths and maybe even your Wolveses than it does leave them facing relegation, which is, I'd say, to not have had a win in that length of time is bonkers and Sean Dicey and we went out there to win ugly and we did. And you think, fucking hell, if you're having to go out there to win ugly against Burnley. It says a lot about your, your lofty ambitions, doesn't it Fuck me?

Speaker 3: 51:34

Other games Wolves won West Ham two James Moore-Prowse going direct from a corner I love to see it and a bit of ref watching this one, obviously hugely controversial, ending with the Wolves equaliser. I tell you what Gary O'Neill he does sometimes make it hard to love him as much as I do Coming out and saying it's was it the worst decision of all time, the most disgraceful decision he's ever seen. He said what was it? The phrase he said? It was like he's ever seen. He said um, what was it the phrase he said? It was like if, um, you know, if, if you know anything about football, I find it really, really, really, really difficult to think that you should disallow that goal, something like that. You know, really condescending classic referees don't know anything about football. Um, but before I say anything, mike, what was your thoughts on it?

Speaker 1: 52:25

I was right. It shouldn't be incumbent on the goalkeeper to move to see the ball, like he's allowed to exist in a position that he thinks is the best position for him to try and get to the ball. And I think when people say like, oh, to play the ball, it's not necessarily he's going to save that or he's going to get anywhere near it. He's got to make his action towards the ball but given the best opportunity to give himself to do that and the Wolves player standing right in front of him, so he's obviously blocked, he's impeded his sight towards the ball. Would he have ever got to it? No, but that disregards the fact that he shouldn't be changing his position based on the infringement of another player who's standing in an off-side position. So I position based on the infringement of another player who's standing in an offside position. So I think it's perfectly reasonable and it's a perfectly straightforward call to make and it was the correct call.

Speaker 3: 53:16

Again. I just I seen all the controversy about it and all the tweets and everything. I thought, oh fucking hell, what's happened to you? And I went and looked at it and I was like he's offside, surely he's just offside. And now he's given offside. I really don't understand why everyone's so angry. Like really going in on it on match of the day as well. It'd be like he's just offside, like that's just always been offside.

Speaker 3: 53:36

You can't stand in front of the goalie in an offside position. I've seen somebody say the art of goalkeeping is to be able to get a clear sight of the ball and you're like, ah, but not from an offside player. And it would just. The two crazy things that would come from it if this was somehow allowed to stand would be one that every attacker ever would just try and stand in front of a goalkeeper, irrespective of whether they're offside or not, to try and distract him. And two, it would mean referees need to suddenly become arbiters of whether a goalkeeper's going to get to it or not, and that's like referees get a hard enough time for not knowing enough about football as it is, without them being asked to judge the quality of a goal. You know, is that offside because it's Fabianski. But if it was Alisson it wouldn't have been offside. Sorry, is that not offside because it's Fabianski? Because he wouldn't get to it. But if it was Alisson it would have been offside because alison would have got to like, or noyer would have got to um, or jamie langfield, back in the day, great shot stopper he was would have got it. Like you know, it's just a nonsensical thing to to suggest and, and the law is clear. It doesn't say you have to play the ball, it says an opportunity to play the ball and he doesn't have an opportunity to play the ball because he can't fucking see it and he can't see anything that's going on before it. Like there's too many variables in football as well for me to be able to say he definitely isn't going to play that. Nobody knows if he could have saved that because, as it comes in, you know these goalkeepers are so good that you might know that that's the only place the boy can head in it and have adjusted his position accordingly to get there accordingly, to get there.

Speaker 3: 55:06

We've seen enough sensational saves from corners. The David Seaman one and the Craig Gordon one at Sunderland both spring to mind, where they both made point-blank saves at full stretch from corners, so really, really silly to say that he's not going to get anywhere near it. I disagree that VAR are just looking for any reason to disallow a goal as well. Like that, if anything, actually, the assistant referee should be getting that on the field of play, and we have seen that given on the field of play as well. It doesn't always have to go to VAR. So yeah, that wound me up a little bit. I don't know why that was so controversial. Fulham 0 Newcastle 1. Dan Byrne had a disallowed goal for getting up quite high on Calvin Bassi. I thought it was probably fair enough to disallow Mike. He was sort of all over him.

Speaker 1: 55:55

Yeah, but I think Arsenal fans would obviously take umbrage with the fact that in the game against Newcastle, other than the season against Gabriel. Gabriel got a two handed shove in the back and it was deemed fair play yeah. I think that's just where the consistency argument comes into it, doesn't it, jimmy?

Speaker 3: 56:18

and I think that's we haven't had a lot of consistency chat this season.

Speaker 1: 56:24

I'm. You know what. I follow the lines of like don't do something stupid, like stupid things should be rolled out for films as well. And it's like Calvin Bassey wasn't one of that header anyway. And then Dan Byrne shoves him. It's like fair enough if he jumps up and contests with him, which he was, but then it's like the ball was actually away and going towards Shah, and then he pushes him. He's like you can't have any arguments about that. It's just like such a stupid and daft thing to do. And obviously it's not costing the game, it's not costing Bill Nathan, etc.

Speaker 3: 56:56

But yeah, just a disappointment for Jimmy's fan tracks team more than anything yeah, exactly, and the last game was Sheffield United Chelsea 2, just infuriating Ollie McBurnie with an incredibly late equaliser after Chelsea kind of finally seemed to drag themselves out of the mire that there was that game. It's just ah, chelsea are such an annoying football club because with man United dropping points. Had Chelsea won that with a game in hand against over United, they could have gone 6th. It's absolutely mental that they could have gone sixth If Chelsea were to finish best of the rest with that top five. That'd be insane. They do still have a game in hand. They can go within two points of United and their undefeated run continues.

Speaker 3: 57:41

It's just frustrating, isn't it? It's such a good opportunity there for them to really put themselves in contention for a Europa League place next season, which will obviously be a lot better than a conference spot, and just blow it to Oli McBurnie in concentration again. I couldn't believe actually, when I was having a look, that their expected goals against is actually quite competitive. They're sixth for expected goals against. But the problem with that is they've conceded slightly more than that suggests and, yeah, they just seem to give up really fucking easy chances when they do as well, which increases the likelihood of them going in, obviously so frustrating for Chelsea and also it's a point for Sheffield United that means absolutely bugger all Mike.

Speaker 1: 58:25

Yeah, I mean I think Petrovic has only had two clean sheets, so obviously that's a worry within itself, and the fact that Chelsea have now dropped four points in the space of a week To the bottom two sides In the division Is an added worry.

Speaker 1: 58:43

I do think there's the makings Of a decent Chelsea team here. I don't know if Potts has come in and said the score make-up is not good enough. I don't know if Potts has come in and said the score make-up's not good enough. I don't think he helps himself in the media or with the fans, but I do think there's a lot to be positive about what this Chelsea team could be and what potentially could be, even with all the mess that's gone on within it. I do think they could challenge and I think they should be up there with Manchester United because of how poor they have been and I think with the game at hand, hopefully they rectify themselves and they can definitely push it to the sixth or seventh spot, because I think with the standard of Manchester United it wouldn't be befitting for them to finish sixth and it would be a damning thing for them and the rest of the league to let something as vile as that happen.

Speaker 3: 59:25

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. It's meant yeah, because if they win both those games as they should, they're only a point behind United with a game in hand and it's a very different looking league and probably Potts has a lot more positivity around him at the end of the season if he can finish 6th as well and it kind of shows a bit of progress because, yeah, finishing 10th for Chelsea is ridiculous, finishing 6th is a bit more like we've had a poor season and now we can sort of kick on in those Champions League places again. That's everything for the Premier League. In other news, interesting letter released this week in relation to the sort of legal challenge against FIFA where they had banned the possibility of taking domestic league matches to the USA. They seem to have folded on that under legal challenge. So that makes the prospect of Premier League games across the pond a sort of reality.

Speaker 3: 1:00:18

Mike, it's not. I know sort of like the good football people or whatever the classic football people will think that this is an absolute travesty and I do feel for the fans of that game or two games that get taken away, but this feels like it was just an inevitability that was coming at some point. You know we get the NFL come and play three games in London, the NBA come and play a series of games in London, major League Baseball come and play in London, as well as other countries. It's not a huge surprise to think that next season's I suppose it maybe depends what games they take, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise to think that next season's Tottenham Villa game could be played in San Francisco and it feels hard to get too angry about that, given everything that's happening, of happening with global sport.

Speaker 1: 1:01:11

Yeah, it's just the franchise-ification of where the Premier League is, and we're seeing more and more American owners, and that's now coming north of the border as well. I do think the worry and the trend, though, is that the Premier League is going to end up a bit like the NBA and a bit like MLB In the case, that's going to be a closed shop and it's going to be a natural Super League within itself, and I do think that's where the worry is Now. These Game 39 or whatever they were calling it 10, 15 years ago, I remember writing a piece in the Scotsman when I was doing my work experience, about Dundee itself and potentially taking place in America as well. It's always been muted for years and years. Now this is potentially going to be a thing.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

Should you get too worked up about it? Not necessarily because, in a sense, I'm an Arsenal fan maybe not to the extent I was in previous years, but, again, I'm not from London. I'm not out with that. If Arsenal came up to play a game at Muddyfield, would I go see it? Yeah, and I'd be one of the plastic tourists that gets touted about, but you just see how the global reach of the game, especially with the Premier League now wants to try and reach as many people as possible. What's it? Tottenham, newcastle, going down to Australia to play a friendly three days after the season finishes or something ridiculous like that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:42

My issue is not necessarily with games going abroad and that and obviously the environmental factors that go into that as well. It's how do we actually reduce the quantity of football and improve the quality of it as well? And I think dragging boys out to say San Francisco, like you say, for a game of football, I don't know how that helps players, bodies, be in the best condition for a 38-game season. I think that's out of everybody that always gets kind of missed in this and why the players are well remunerated. I think they're often just seen as cattle horses. Let's see how far we can ride them until they break, and then you just bring an arm around, and I think that's where FIFA I suppose more so than anything.

Speaker 3: 1:03:28

Yeah, I think that's a fair observation.

Speaker 3: 1:03:32

Interestingly, I think New York is closer than some Champions League games. But yeah, I do. I do agree with you that it's kind of something that will be forgotten about. I do. I completely agree with your plastic fan point as well, because I went to the NFL games and one of them in London back in September, october time at Wembley, and it of them in London back in September, october time at Wembley, and it was incredible. I had a phenomenal day. I was absolutely buzzing.

Speaker 3: 1:03:54

First time I got to see an NFL game in real life, I went to the Yankees Red Sox baseball game at the London stadium back in 2019. That was also an incredible experience and you know, my first opportunity to get to see a baseball game and I absolutely loved it and you know sort of we'll always have those, those memories and had a brilliant day and I wouldn't have got to do that if it, you know, if it wasn't for for these teams moving across the pond to play that game, you know there was no likelihood of me going to the U S to to watch a game, to get that opportunity. So it's hard to be like woo, the NFL's coming and then like boo, why is the Premier League going to the US. You can't really have it both ways and we have a lot more games in the Premier League than they do as well. Like it's quite a bit more significant for a home fan of, say, the Jags, who lose two games a season, when they only have eight anyway, than it is for Spurs, who have 18, 19 plus cups, plus Europe, to lose one or two. So I suppose what would wind people up is and I can see this happening is it's when it's the, it's when it would be like that man City Arsenal game that gets taken to America or it'd be a Manchester derby or it'd be a Manchester United Liverpool game. That'll be when, I think, fans will get really, really upset, and you can sort of understand it to an extent as well, because that's the biggest games of the season for the guys that go every week. But no doubt 99% of people will see this as a complete atrocity to the game and complain about it, and TalkSport will no doubt get an unbelievable amount of air mileage out of complaining about it.

Speaker 3: 1:05:33

Quick round up of Scotland before we finish Old Firm Derby Celtic 3, rangers 3. Bit of a mad finish Rangers equalising in the 80 odd minute. Celtic then winning it, rangers then equalising again in 90 plus 3. Pretty good finish by Matonda, to be fair. Jack Butland is the talk of this game. Mike, should he be on the plane?

Speaker 1: 1:05:54

Well, as the Peter Grant said on Sports Team. Peter Grant, obviously probably measured on Fellen, said he's not just the best goalkeeper the Rangers have got, he's not the best goalkeeper in the country, he's the best goalkeeper that England have got already. He's not the best goalkeeper in the country, he's the best goalkeeper that England have got and I've seen them all, which is a bold statement, considering he was third choice at Crystal Pass last season behind Sam Josden, who was one of the goalkeepers as well. So I don't think he should necessarily be on the plane, because when he was in the Premier League he didn't play, and while he has been good for Rangers, I do think he showed a few weaknesses in the biggest game of the season in front of Gareth Southgate as well. So no, not for me.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

As much as it would be good for the Scottish game, in a sense, to see somebody make the England squad one of the better nations, unfortunately for me, to say, this year's Euros, I don't think he's quite there, and this is a guy who obviously didn't defend Jordan Pickford or Aaron Ramsdale to the hilt. So yeah, I just don't think he's not quite there. I thought he was going to be an excellent goalkeeper when he was coming through, took him to the Euros in 20. No, I mean the first World Cup. He added 2018, but no, no, not for me now. To no, I wouldn't even the first World Cup. So I took him to the first World Cup that he had in 2018, but, no, no, not for me now.

Speaker 3: 1:07:12

No, I agree with everything you said. Livy Jr, with Aberdeen sort of late goal disallowed for offside, it did just about look offside and Dunfermline won, bartek won. Not a bad result that, mike, for the pars.

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

No first for the Pars, no first penalty in the league this season for them. When considered Rangers have had 19 this season, this was a bit of a discrepancy. Some of the things that go your way are not. I know part of the Thistle fans got their hands up about the penalty. While it did look like at the highlights that Chris King goes down under no contact, when you zoom on it he does get a kick in the Achilles. So yeah, it was a clear penalty and it was a good point in the circumstances.

Speaker 1: 1:07:50

The last time we played Partick was in the telly. It was a 4-0, we won 3-1. A lot of decisions went our way, but the last time they came to town they won 2-1. So it's a point added from the last time. I think the unfortunate thing is they had won against Martin. They're pushing to fourth place tonight against Rafe Rovers. We can do it with Rafe Rovers doing us a favour and then we've got Airdrie on Saturday. So our season is potentially defined with a win on Saturday against Airdrie and then, if we do that, we can potentially kick on and finish fourth and then face Partick P pistol in the premiership playoff yeah, which would be remarkable given that not that long ago, we were talking about whether they could survive relegation.

Speaker 3: 1:08:32

So the beauty of a 10 team league. It is genuinely fascinating. That's been fantastic, mike, great as always to catch up with you, and we'll speak again next week, cheers.