The Late Kick Off Football Podcast
Arsenal / Man City / Chelsea / David Moyes / EFL round-up / SPFL round-up
Arsenal and Man City's dominated wins. Arteta's unheralded man management qualities. Several big decisions! Chelsea's sign of light against West Ham. Moyes is leaving and Julien is incoming.
A round up of the EFL and SPFL!
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Twitter - Late Kick Off Podcast (@latekickoffpod) / Twitter
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Thanks to all our contributors:
Ciaran Fowler for the artwork!
Ross McDonald for the logo!
Mike Leith and KMAND DJ for the intro music!
Arsenal and Man City's dominated wins. Arteta's unheralded man management qualities. Several big decisions! Chelsea's sign of light against West Ham. Moyes is leaving and Julien is incoming.
A round up of the EFL and SPFL!
All reviews, likes, shares and of course listens are hugely appreciated! Why not leave a review right now, it only takes a second!
Please follow and tag us on the socials @latekickoff:
Twitter - Late Kick Off Podcast (@latekickoffpod) / Twitter
Instagram - Late Kick Off Football Podcast (@latekickoffpod) • Instagram photos and videos
Thanks to all our contributors:
Ciaran Fowler for the artwork!
Ross McDonald for the logo!
Mike Leith and KMAND DJ for the intro music!
Music Olivia tell him rock paper scissors.
Speaker 3:Rock paper scissors, fuck off. Hello and welcome to the Late Kickoff Football Podcast. That was Jamie Vardy's daughter saying rock paper scissors, fuck off for anyone. That couldn't quite make it out. No idea why, but very on off for anyone that couldn't quite make it out. No idea why, but very on brand for the Vardy family. This week, forest took a step closer to survival while Sheffield United conceded their 100th Premier League goal, the Seagulls took flight to win a first game in six and Palace punished Manchester United. I'm your host, jamie Guyon, and joined as ever with Sheila. Sheila, how are you doing? I'm very good. How are you? Yeah, not too bad at all. Thank you, mike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not bad, I'm not bad.
Speaker 3:Fantastic. I noticed that Mike put in the notes Mike, then Sheila, but I overruled it. Sheila, I've given you two weeks in a row at the top of the bill and Mike wanted his place back, but I was paying attention. We'll start at the Emirates, where Arsenal kept their noses in front in the title race.
Speaker 3:The host squeezed the cherries but never burst them, until a pressurised Mark Travers felled Kai Havertz, which allowed Bakayo Sako to keep his 100% record from the spot. That's six for six for the club. But just before the end of the first half, trossard extended the lead with 20 minutes to go and Rice put the you-know-what on top of the cake in stoppage time Arsenal 3, bournemouth 0. It was the early kickoff, mike, so pressure was on Arsenal here to in turn keep the pressure on man City and while, like we said in the synopsis there a bit of a slow start, they ultimately kind of professional performance and got the job done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just kept on Bournemouth and they just, you knew the goal was going to come. It wasn't one of these typical Arsenal performances in probably previous years where you think, oh, this could be a sticky wicket and they just kept at it, they kept at it and they kept at it and the goal and the penalty I'm probably going into more detail I don't think it was that controversial in itself. I think it was more controversial. I think, for the most part, arsenal are just very professional, going about their job and it doesn't seem like they're playing with any sort of shackles put on them and they seem to be doing all that they can to push Manchester City all the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, sheila. Bournemouth have been in really good form. We didn't actually touch on it too much last week, but you know, after Areola's poor start to the season, iriola's poor start to the season, I should say, not the West Ham goalkeeper they've only been beaten by the top three in terms of putting points on the board. So it was by no means a foregone conclusion for Arsenal. They did actually have to show up and perform in this game.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. I mean, bournemouth did have their moments where they looked dangerous and I think, obviously talking about controversial decisions when it's 2-0, bournemouth do get the ball in the net, but obviously the referee steps in and gives a foul on David Raya. If that's different, if he sees it the other way and it goes 2-1, then we could have seen Arsenal sweating a wee bit, but as it was, no, they were just again, just professional. They weren't too great Either way. It wasn't an exceptional performance. But Bournemouth are pretty difficult to deal with, especially in the forward areas. But I think Saliba and Gabriel are a great game and kept that largely muted, except from maybe outside, outside, like a sort of 10 minute spell. But otherwise Arsenal were just exactly what you'd expect. If they were playing in blue jerseys, you wouldn't be able to notice the difference yeah like light blue jerseys, yeah it took me a.
Speaker 2:It took me a little split second, I didn't really play like I ever.
Speaker 3:I was a bit like did Arsenal used to be good in blue. Am I missing something?
Speaker 2:here. If they were playing in light blue then you wouldn't be able to notice the difference between this Arsenal side and one of Guardiola's title winning man City teams.
Speaker 3:Yeah completely agree and sort of on that. Mike, you highlighted in the notes that Arteta's first game as manager of Arsenal was also against Bournemouth back in December 2019, and you take a look at the team from then and how much it's changed. So Leno and Goles now at Fulham. Maitland, niles, socrates, luiz and Saka were the back four. I don't think I can remember Luiz who's. Luiz now plays for Flamengo. David Luiz, oh, david Luiz, david Louise, ah, okay, ah, fair enough.
Speaker 3:I was like just seeing he's one of those people that needs his whole name. Just seeing Louise, I was like the fuck, is that? Uh, torreira, now Galatasaray and Xhaka Leverkusen, uh, nelson, uh, who is still there? Ozil, obama, yang and Lacazette, and then even on the bench, you had Martinez Mavropanos, mustafi Guendouzi, pepe Willock and then Emile Smith-Rowe. Only Saka, nelson and Smith-Rowe have survived. Only Saka has arguably survived in terms of relevance in that team. I know it's been sort of four and a half years, but just in terms of the quality, if you were to go through Arsenal's team on Saturday, the difference is astounding in a reasonably short period of time for Arteta.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you look at some of the boys that are even on the bench now, marginalised, who you thought would have started at the beginning of the season and did start at the beginning of the season, like Jesus, martin Eli and Zinchenko. I mean, martin Eli's just been this forgotten man since he came back from his injury. Sienkiewicz has been in and out with injury, but the way that he's acted as Moft and put Tommy Asu off at the weaker side and then just really having four big men at the back to really counteract anything that's coming their way, really strong, solid foundations. And, yeah, when you look at Maitland-Niles and Saka, obviously Saka was exemplary when he was at left back when he first came through, but obviously he's more of a winger and shown his potential there. Maitland-niles was just really a plug-and-play player who you could just fit at any position. You wouldn't look out of place but you knew he was going to the top with him in the side. So I think you've just seen the ability to have belief in him, even through the fall periods in the squad.
Speaker 1:Now you look at some real quality. You think of the bench, but they're just out of form at this moment in time and I think it's just testament to the way that Arsenal have got their business. They've spent a lot of money. They're up there in the spend table, but they're not the likes of Manchester United and Manchester City, who have spent exorbitant amounts of money on their squad and building from a stronger base maybe not my name, of course, but definitely Manchester City. So I think the way that Arteta has gone about things, they look like one of the best sides in Europe, if not the world, at this moment in time yeah, absolutely, pepe was pre.
Speaker 3:I actually didn't realize Pepe was pre Arteta. I thought he was an Arteta signing. So you, if you kind of look at the summer they've just had and the summer before maybe Sheila you can't really see any misses there for Arteta and Arsenal. We used to compliment Liverpool, in particular man City obviously, in the fact that they tend to get all of their signings spot on and kind of Arsenal, as all good run clubs do, are following suit in that Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think everybody that is brought in has brought something to the table, which is what you're wanting at these high-level clubs, because I think all the players are aware there's a very good chance that they'll not start every week, so you do need assets that you can bring into play at certain times. Probably the only miss, if you like, was probably Zinchenko, but that's over a two year period rather than a one. It's just kind of Arteta's sort of deserted the invented fullback idea and seems much to prefer Tommy Asu in a more traditional left back role, in the same way that White does on the right, but yeah, the recruitment from Arteta and Arsenal has been Tomiyasu in a more traditional left-back role, in the same way that White does on the right, but yeah, the recruitment from Arteta and Arsenal has been spot on. Obviously they have spent big on players like Rice and Havertz, but they've definitely improved the team. And then Havertz again, he went through a bit of a sticky patch his first six months of the season at Arsenal, but Arteta has persevered and worked on his game and now he looks like he's been such a big threat for other teams the last 10 games or so, just because he has a little bit of everything, and whilst I don't think that's the long-term solution in terms of an out-and-out striker, I still think that's probably the next piece of the puzzle for Arsenal.
Speaker 2:But to have a player like Havertz, who can play in so many different positions and be somewhat effective and Trossard's probably the same as well he's another one of those players that you can put him anywhere across the front line and he'll be effective, and it's just City have players like that as well. Like Doku could play either way, grealish could play another one if you're Bernardo Silva, just littered with these players that can slot into different places, whereas you see injury crisis at Liverpool and I can't believe I'm mentioning them in the same breath as the three teams I've already spoken about but man United, who have had their injury problems but are really, really struggling to find for replacements within their own squad. So it just goes to show the difference between what Arsenal are doing and what man United are doing. I completely agree.
Speaker 3:We were discussing it yesterday and I sort of compared them difference between what Arsenal are doing and what man United are doing. I completely agree. We were discussing it yesterday and I compared him loosely to Riyad Mahrez from man City, who was one of their most influential players for four or five seasons, without necessarily being a surefire starter or the first name on the team sheet. It feels like Havertz could become that kind of player for Arsenal, maybe next season, if they did sign a striker, a guy that probably plays 25 to 30, probably starts sorry, 25 to 30 Premier League games, but kind of does so in a variety of roles and is generally effective in all of them. It's unusual to have a guy that can play number eight and false down Again.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a doff, the cap too. You also said yesterday that he's probably effective against 17 of the 20 teams. That's. The only gap that they've got to bridge with him is that against the likes of City and Liverpool, he's not your guy, but against the likes of Bournemouth and the Wolves and the West Ham's of the league, he's as good as you'll find which is something that.
Speaker 2:Chelsea didn't really seem to understand either when he was there, but Arsenal, arteta and Arsenal have cracked that code with him. There are limits to him, but for the most part he's just exactly what you need I think everyone's always agreed.
Speaker 3:He's just exactly what you need. He's a terrific. I think everyone's always agreed he's a terrifically talented footballer, like in the sense that his touch is immaculate. He's great in close spaces. Um, it's just trying to find a role for him, isn't it trying to find? Because he doesn't really fit into the current era of four, three, threes which most teams seem to play, which is or doesn't, obviously. But I think Arteta has made that work.
Speaker 2:He has made him fit into 4-3-3s and I think what Arteta and Guardiola do so well is they talk to players on a psychological level as well, just to.
Speaker 2:They don't seem to get disgruntled when they're not playing or when they're out of position, and then if results go against them, these they don't seem to get disgruntled when they're not playing or when they're sort of out of position, and then it's sort of like if results go against them.
Speaker 2:These guys are always highlighted as sort of the weak points in the team, and I think that got to him at Chelsea, where it seemed to be, oh well, he's not affected. We need to get rid of him when it's actually sort of the managers that Chelsea have had previously that have not been able to work out a system that he works in, and Arsenal have counteracted that and be like we can fit him in here and he seems much better for it. His confidence is sky high at the moment, which is obviously crucial, and that's down to the way Arteta's managed him like. Obviously he started deeper in midfield at the start of the season. He's just went injured and he's went into the focus line position and done great. I think that's all down to his confidence in what Arteta has done.
Speaker 3:It's something that's not really spoken about much, mike. I certainly haven't heard a huge amount about it. Arteta in some ways is a bit of a joke. Not a joke, figuring, he's not a novelty band, but people like to sort of laugh at his Lego hair, tight trousers, jumping up and down on the touchline over-celebrating his scuffs with Klopp, his kind of post-match interviews and stuff.
Speaker 3:But something that he seems to have absolutely nailed is man management, and I'm not sure that comes up very often because, as Sheila's just said, it seems to be an incredibly harmonious squad, not really getting incidences where players are coming off in a strop or falling out. We're not getting incidents. There's no leaked messages coming out of the Arsenal camp like you get at sort of man United, chelsea, liverpool. This season he managed to bring Xhaka back from complete and utter. His career was over at Arsenal and you've got to think that Arteta's man management was key in bringing that round. And, as we've just spoken about at length, the way he seems to have got through to Havertz as well, it kind of seems to be a bit of an unspoken quality of Arteta's that's helping him build this Arsenal side.
Speaker 1:You've got to remember who he's had as his managers or he's been under the coaching tree during his time in England. So he spent a lot of time when he first moved down to England and I know he's not the same as Pep, who he worked under at Manchester City, or Arsene Wenger, and he's that half of his career. But you definitely see, maybe Arsene Wenger was more the analytical thinking about football in a kind of different way than most managers would. But David Moyes has probably got more of the kind of personal role side of the player who can get him on side, rather than being the kind of ace tactician that some other managers perhaps would be. So he's probably had a blend of kind of different experiences that happened and come from the Barcelona Academy in the late 90s as well. Of course it's maybe not the renowned thing that it was a bit later with Messi and that coming through, but I guess they had good experiences of kind of good matches and take the good and the bad qualities to form his own kind of basis of what he wants to do. So I do think he's got it spot on and you can remember he had to get the more of the bigger egos out and people were questioning when he got like Abou Mian out, who was always late for training, or Otsol, who seemed to be always causing friction in the dressing room as well. So he's certainly got people inside him and the fact, like Odegaard doesn't dressing room and that. But he's been entrusted with the captain's armband and he's still relatively young as a man in a football dressing room and he's not a shower or a ball.
Speaker 1:He seems to be leading more by example and I think that's how arteta was as a player as well. It wasn't necessarily he was the random raver, but he was the most technical player perhaps in the everton side for those six years and he was leading by example to the other players around him and that's maybe how he's seen all the guard from him on the field, like he's doing the things where Xhaka perhaps was a bit more kind of ferocious in the way that he was demonstrating with the fans against Crystal Pass all those years ago. So I do think he's learned from his early mistakes as a manager. He obviously got that FA Cup in his first year, which gave him a better time, but I think he's just a very erudite and smart man and even though you've seen in the Arsenal documentary when he's making analogies about light bulbs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Footballers are not necessarily like you're not talking to a room of Harvard professionals or anything like that. You're talking to a bunch of people who went to a game of football. It doesn't have to be very smart and very long-winded messages. You just have to get them to buy into a kind of single let's all go in one direction kind of method. And even though it seems a bit daft making analogies like that, it's evidently got buy-in from the majority of the team and, like you said, there doesn't seem to be much dissent among them, and that's because they're winning. And if they weren't winning, you'd probably hear more when he solves everything most of the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we'll still always laugh at the fact that he played. You'll never walk alone on big giant speakers during training the week before a Liverpool game, no matter how successful he is. Any more for any more. Oh, we better talk about the refereeing decision. Sorry, I did have that Noted down. So there was probably three big decisions in this game, you'd say, the first of which was the possible Ryan Christie red card. Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:It was. I think it was just on the right side of not being a red card. But where the kind of issue arises was it was David Cook. That was the official. He evidently didn't see it because he didn't vote for a foul. You can't give retrospective action and stuff like that, the Red and Dale Johnson's ESPN piece technically when he's at the Monarch. The referees could decide all three outcomes whether he wants to not necessarily give a foul, but if he wants to give a red. But he could give a yellow as well. So I thought it was interesting that the VAR didn't even tell him to go to the monitor and say, look, you've missed that bell. Do you think it's a red card? And even if he said no, it's not a red card but it's perhaps a yellow card, I think that would have been okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one of the kind of quirks of VAR, so obviously can't recommend a review for a yellow card. So if they think it's a yellow card, you don't get the referee over. But if they genuinely think it's a red card and the referee hasn't done anything and he thinks it's a yellow card, he could give a yellow card. But I don't. I'm not actually sure of any examples off the top of my head when I've seen that happen, because it's quite usually 90% of the time the referee's already given a yellow card instead of a red, or it's a situation like this where VAR are thinking it's not quite meeting the threshold. What about you, sheila?
Speaker 2:First of all, I don't know where Saka's shin pads were where the fuck is his shin pads? Because his leg was in a bad way after the tackle. But yeah, I think it's just another one of them where it's like VAR kind of or not VAR, but the people running in VAR get in it's own wayAR kind of or not VAR, but the people running in VAR get in its own way and don't use it to its full potential. Again, you could go over that and say, look, that's a pretty robust challenge. Do you want to go over and have a look at it? Just to, you know, peace of mind, if nothing else, to make sure you've got the right call.
Speaker 2:And then again, if you think a yellow is justified, then give a yellow, and if need think a yellow is justified, then give a yellow. And if you think red is justified, give a red. But I think, with a lot of the the media sort of noise around var and it takes too long and blah, blah, blah, that it actually stops us getting to. You know, adjust outcome within games. So it probably, irrespective of what you think the decision would be, like we had a tool there that we could have used to get to the right outcome, or an outcome, and they would just deliberately not use it, because football cuts its nose off to spite its face a lot of the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's fair. It kind of comes back to that thing. I think all three of us have agreed on a few times that the VAR almost shouldn't have a clear and obvious error threshold. That should just be for the referee and VAR should be like, oh, I don't agree with that A completely ordinary threshold and get him over to have a look. I think it was a yellow card as well. I think there's not the intensity or the force for a red card, the way it kind of like brushes down off him.
Speaker 3:But actually, sheila, you've raised a more important point, which is fucking shin pads. Seen a great picture the other day of hernan crespo sitting in the chelsea dressing room looking at um, looking at a medal, and he's got a classic adidas, big, chunky, classic adidas boots on and proper like the shin pads you had when you were a kid that covered your entire shin under the socks. And like this theory that, like, shin pads give you a bad touch, which is apparently why players don't like them. They're not taking a touch with their shins anyway, they will take a touch with their feet.
Speaker 3:That's a shite argument it's not like Harne and Crespo had a bad touch.
Speaker 2:It's not like everyone was like it's a good striker, but fucking hell, his first touch was shite Again obviously you're a referee, obviously not at Premier League level, but like if a boy comes up with no shin pads, you're like where the fuck are your shin pads?
Speaker 3:Well, you're not allowed to play.
Speaker 2:No, no, exactly. That's why, like again, I was taught as a youngster, when playing for school teams or whatever else I say play like sitting on the bench for school teams and whatnot, you weren't allowed on. If so, I don't understand why Saka's allowed to play with no shin pads.
Speaker 3:No, he did have shin pads, that's the thing. They're just so so.
Speaker 2:So they're about the size of a medic card. Yeah, it's just not. It's pointless. Honestly, if that meets the threshold of wearing shin pads, you may as well just get rid of the rule that you have to wear shin pads Stuffed in two pieces of cardboard just down your socks. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:And the point of them is to help for challenges like that, scrappy challenges like that, where his leg wouldn't have been in anywhere near as bad a way if he was wearing a good, robust pair of 10-inch long shin pads down his shin, as he absolutely should be. Another little point I was going to raise, actually just on the VAR thing, was about going to the monitor and it taking too long and stuff. Why does it have to be a fixed point monitor at the side of the pitch in a place where, depending where the incident has happened, the referee might have to run sort of 80 to 100 yards to get to it, which is a really long way? Why isn't it just a man with an iPad? You can have an iPad the same side of the screen.
Speaker 2:That's for the drama. I suppose maybe that's for the drama. I suppose probably that's for, like, the, the whole spectacle. Oh, he's got.
Speaker 3:He's going to look at the monitor and here's a long run rather like it wouldn't be and it's got walls like a, like a fucking um hole in the wall what they called cash machines that folk can't see in.
Speaker 2:But folk just look in anyway yeah, but like no, it's just again like I think that's where, like you know, the spectacle overtakes common sense, where it's like ah, now we're going to get this referee jogging the whole length of the pitch and try and build the tension around the decision and whatnot, where it wouldn't be half as good if just somebody from the FA just wandered onto the pitch and was like there you go, son you could have him walk up and down the touchline with play.
Speaker 3:He doesn't have to be a lino, he doesn't have to be sprinting and keep up with the ball, but he could just generally walk up and down the touchline with play so that if there was a situation where there's a VAR check, he's already like three quarters of the way on the pitch to give the referee the iPad referee has a look and then the boy just runs off at the nearest point and I bet Chex would be infinitely quicker and you can still build a little wall around an iPad if they're worried about making it into a VR headset.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of like, you know, just being a bit more efficient in the decision making process, like, first of all, you can probably shave 20 seconds off the time a decision's made by not having the referee run a fucking marathon to get to the monitor and then all that sort of part like. But again, as I've said, and we've all said many times on this podcast and I'm sure there are umpteen podcasts that all say the same that football gets in its own way sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just stupid for the sake of it. The last little point was it was a great um, it was actually just a user comment on Dale Johnson's article where somebody said they should use the language from American football which is overturned. Obviously it was overturned, confirmed, which is when VAR agrees with the referee or stands, which is like where VAR think it doesn't meet they don't necessarily agree with the referee, but it doesn't meet. They don't necessarily agree with the referee, but it doesn't meet the threshold to overturn it, so that you sort of fans would know roughly what, at least roughly what the VAR's thinking. Try to explain that slightly better.
Speaker 3:But like when it comes up on the screen, like that Ryan Christie one, it says like VAR, check for a red card, and then underneath it says no red card. It doesn't say like you know, no check or anything like that. It'll say it'll say no red card, whereas instead it could say it could say uh, confirmed, which would mean it agrees with david cook's decision, and it's uh, you know, it's just not a free kick or anything. Or it could say stands, and then stands would mean like okay, we don't necessarily agree that it shouldn't have been a free kick and it wasn't a yellow card, but it doesn't meet the threshold for a red. I do wonder, having said that out loud, whether that just creates another thing for folk to argue about.
Speaker 2:To be honest, I think, like always, again, I think there's one, one criticism of far. Like I'm in favor of our have been since its inception, not just in favour of how it's sort of been implemented, but I think that's one thing that should definitely be addressed. Moving forward is how the decision, how the referee, translate the decision to the fans in the ground and, you know, the viewing public at home, just so we understand his thinking. Like again, you know it's difficult. It's easy to say like to three boys here who are quite open to VAR, rather than 80,000 people who hate it, and then it's just another thing to get on at the referee about. But again, it's just trying to improve the implementation of VAR. I think given time it'll just become part of the game. It's still fairly new, but eventually we'll just learn to deal with it. How long has video refereeing been in the nfl?
Speaker 2:you don't a furore about this decision took fucking so long and it's like, well, the event itself is like four hours, but um, yeah, it's like you don't. You don't hear those sort of ways. I think, given time, eventually it'll all website. As far as like that argument is concerned, where it's like this is taking too long, it'll still be about whether the decision was right or wrong.
Speaker 3:But yeah, and on-field announcements, I think are on the way they're doing them in the mls and they do look all right, although I did comment that like there's something about an on-field announcement that sounds okay in an american accent when he's like you know, know, decision, red card, high tackle, like it all sounds quite like I'm like oh yeah, fair enough, this boy knows what he's doing about it and no disrespect to any UK accents, because we've all got one and none of them are great but like there's something about Michael Oliver and his broad Geordie accent doing that across the Tannoy system that I just don't think will carry the same authority you can.
Speaker 2:You can get the hype man if you like. Before the game he reads out the announcements so like the guy like come on, you bars. Or if it was like go for Aberdeen, and it was said so with no enthusiasm whatsoever, but like if a Fairmont boy scored, that would be like get the crowd going and whatever else.
Speaker 3:That would be hilarious if your whole team get a decision for them or you do, you do like a summer pre-record and you get the guy for you know the guy that does like the voiceover for like x factor and britain's got talent that really sort of like deep booming. Just get him to record every possible outcome before the season so that they can just play that over the tannoy system. Maybe, maybe, an idea, idea we should quickly get to the last two decisions in this game and avoid any VAR chat while we're doing it. Penalty to Arsenal Mike Havertz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's just on the right side of Havertz being cute enough to win it while Travers was still making an arse of it and charging at his box and putting himself in a position for Havertz to be fouled. But I think the example we used like Wambu Saka and Harvey Elliott, harvey Elliott and Havertz their leg still has to go somewhere. You know what I mean. It doesn't just disappear into the ether just because Travers gets there first but gets no attempt on the ball as well. So gets there first but gets no attempt on the ball as well. So I think, while Havertz does have a reputation of being a diver and he does have a reputation of going down easy, he did play for this Pele. He didn't necessarily initiate the contact in terms of simulating it. So I think it's just on the right side of being a Pele. And should I stand? It should have stood. Sorry, yeah, I though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, I don't think it would have been overturned the other way. I agree that it comes back to there's no obligation on the attacker to hurdle a challenge. They don't have to get out of the way and Havertz sort of drags his foot, certainly more so than Harvey Elliott did anything against Wan-Bissaka. But it comes around as well People saying he's won the penalty, he's been clever or whatever. But equally, mark Travers has been stupid and he didn't win the ball and I don't feel like Mark Travers deserves to get away with that. He's come flying out, he doesn't get it and he's given Havertz. If that's not a penalty, it's because he's lucky that when he does come flying out and not win the ball, he does it a split second earlier than actually clattering into Havertz, second earlier than actually clattering into Havertz.
Speaker 3:But that's by sheer luck, not judgment. It comes back to your should be a foul or should be a red card for just being an idiot. It kind of falls into that category. And then Sheila. The last one was the Bournemouth disallowed goal for the foul on David Raya. We kind of briefly had a goalkeepers being too protected conversation last night following the man United game and this kind of, for some people will fall into that category too, I suspect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it's quite clear what Solanke's trying to do. I think most of the offense like impeding the goalkeeper's ability to play the ball, and I think you know that's exactly what Solanke does there. He gets his body in the way quite intentionally, looks where the goalie's going, glances at the goalie, then glances at the ball and makes a deliberate motion to get in his road. So I think it is a foul again. If that was not a goalie and it was just in the middle of the park and you've got a boy who was obstructing somebody else to go and make a decent attempt for the ball, it'd be given as a foul. So I think it's again the right decision. I'm fortunate for Bournemouth and I think the penalty and the disallow goal were soft but still nevertheless fouls. It's not like they were bang on, like oh, that's definitely a penalty or definitely a foul, but they're still fouls. I think they're just crossing. Cross that threshold, if you like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the old referee analogy a soft-boiled egg is still a boiled egg, Exactly Exactly where it comes into. Well, while Arsenal were able to trounce the opposition early doors, man City had to wait until the late kick-off to provide a beatdown of their own. Good win by Rodri, Now De Bruyne. The late kick-off to provide a beat-down of their own.
Speaker 3:Fantastic win again for Manchester City 5-1 againsturl's Haaland running wild. City have not lost at home since November 2022 and needed absolutely no favours in this game, but yet got one. Not fucking hell, they didn't get one, they got two. Ryan Aitnori collided with Josco Vardyol after he got a shot away for the first spot kick, before Nelson Semedo barged Arlen Haaland for the second, the Norwegian dispatching both with ease. His second goal, a rare header, was matched by his fourth, a trademark, powerful sprint and finish, putting Farclay at the top of the Golden Boot race with 24.
Speaker 3:Immediately after Hwang Hee Chan attempted to get Wolves back into the game, haaland's replacement, world Cup winner Julian Alvarez, inflicted even more misery on Gary O'Neill and the game finished 5-1. Xg was 3.57 versus 0.35, which is quite the discrepancy. A couple of decisions in this game as well, but we'll come on to them, or one. Well, but we'll come on to them, or one in particular we'll come on to shortly. But, mike, just in the same way that Arsenal were professional, City were professional. They just started the job a little bit earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just Haaland's back on form here in this game. He's a wee tiff when he gets taken off because he probably smelt blood in the water and could have got a few more added onto his tally. I just think it was the fact that Wolves have kind of run out of puff in recent weeks and, yeah, setting other stuff soaring to play for both fronts this and the FA Cup and it was just, if it were for like an Edison kind of flap, wolves would have got nothing out of this game at all. And yeah, just very professional performance. I don't think there's really too much to cover in the game per se itself. It's just a very accomplished Manchester City performance and when Haaland can stick him in like that, then there's very little in the opposition to do about it.
Speaker 3:Classic at Haaland header because he gets so fucking high and smashes it into the back of the net. It's a bit weird that he doesn't score that many headers for a guy that's 6'5 and as athletic as he is. Phil Foden won the Football Writers Association Player of the Year with an astounding 42% of the vote. Rice second, Rodri third and then Odegaard, Watkins and Palmer made up the top six. Phil Foden's obviously had an exceptional season and we've watched Lyrical about him and kind of hard to argue with him winning that award.
Speaker 2:He's been brilliant. Again. He was in and out of the team. He didn't play half as many games as you would expect sort of last season, but with De Bruyne's injury his sort of position was up for grabs for the first half of the season and it was Phil Foden that grabbed it, seized the opportunity and solidified himself in that set. He's been excellent.
Speaker 2:I think it's hard to Well, it's not hard to say. You could speak about him from the entire duration of this podcast about how good a player he is. But he's just added a bit of a thing to City this year and just looks just looks like you know, one of England's best prospects ever. Probably. I think that's fair to say. I still think that just a bit controversial. I think between him and Saka, I think Saka is the better player. It would be interesting to see what Foden does in a sort of developing team and see whether he's still as good rather than playing in this pretty much perfect from day one man City team. That would be interesting. But, as I say, you see that in the Euros.
Speaker 3:Well, we do see it kind of in the Euros.
Speaker 2:Every time he puts on an England jersey it doesn't necessarily all go his way. He's been one of City's best players and amongst all that talent, you've got to be something really superb to stand out and he's done that with his goals, with his assists, with his dribbling and his just knack for being in the right place at the right time probably again like dribbling and is just Mack, for being in the right place at the right time. Probably again like him, palmer and Saka have probably been the best three English players in the league this year and yeah, there's not much more I can say about him. He deserves the award. That's basically in short.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I'm interested. Rice was second. I feel like that's perhaps overstating it slightly, but I'm sure Arsenal fans would probably disagree. You kind of alluded to it already. There's not a huge amount to talk about in this game, so we'll get straight on to the penalty decision. It was 8-0,. He came flying out, collided with Vardy. All as I said, Sheila thoughts.
Speaker 2:Look, I feel for 8-0,. Flying out, collided with Vardy, all, as I said, sheila thoughts. Look, I feel for 8-0, I really do. I don't think this is a deliberate mistake. I don't even think it's a mistake as Per. I think he's just as Per as such, but it's just like it's a thing we're seeing more and more common now that if you see an attacking player late and even though you're going for the ball, if you make a hoot of it, then you end up kicking the man, like Bryce gave a similar one away against Tottenham last week, and I think it's just. It's just.
Speaker 2:I feel for Retinue. I really do, because I don't think he meant to give away a penalty. It's not like Travers, who's been a clown, to give away a penalty. It's not like Travers, who's been a clown, and giving away a penalty. This is just unfortunate, but it is nevertheless still a foul because he's not seen him and he's booted him in the leg. So you can't be doing that and expect to get away with it, even though the circumstances are unfortunate rather than the plagiarism in a whole. So, yeah, I think that the right decision has been made here.
Speaker 2:You know you've played yourself in a hole so, yeah, I think that the right decision has been made here.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad you said that, sheila Mike.
Speaker 1:I'm one of these. It could go. It could go either way and I'd be fine with either outcome. I think it's one of these borderline calls, so I wouldn't be upset either way, whatever outcome. I don't think everything has to be black and white sometimes with these decisions to England as an area of grey in them, and I think on this occasion, if you gave Al Nuri the benefit of the doubt, that would have been okay, and if you gave the penalty, which he did, then that's also okay. So I have no real strong opinion on it either way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fair enough for me. It's one of those ones that I think should always be given and quite rarely is like Vardale's had a shot and then Aitnori's ran in and absolutely clattered them, and if that's a pass in the middle of the park followed by a tackle, then it's a foul. There seems to be this weird. There are a lot of weird things in football, but one of them seems to be that if a player gets a shot off, then he's kind of like free reign thereafter If you go clattering into him after it that's fine, though, because you got a shot off.
Speaker 3:Like that's still a, still obviously a foul, like it happens with sort of penalty decisions quite a lot like a striker will shoot and the keeper will save it and the defender will come flying through him and he'll not get a penalty. And it'll be like why? Because he got a shot off. And you think what is like? I heard somebody say like what'sit Nuri meant to do? He's meant to not fucking run and jump into Vardy Hall. Obviously the same as every tackle ever.
Speaker 2:I think Ait Nuri's been dug a hole here because you use the analogy, if that happens in the middle of the park, then it's a weird foul, which it is, but it doesn't come from that. Ait Nuri is blindsided by Vardy or he doesn't know he's there. So therefore his eye's on the ball. And it's not like Vardy gets a shot away and Aitnori sees it late. So it's just like it's poor defending from Wolves that have allowed that position in the first place, in the first instance, to happen. So it's not like City have been given a gift. If Wolves had defended better, they wouldn't have allowed the possession, because it comes from the, basically the, the byline and over everybody's shoulder, and Vardy was just there because obviously he can see it, but Ait Nuri can't.
Speaker 2:So, again, as I say, like it's really really harsh, and I do feel for Ait Nuri because he's not done anything wrong and invented commas. He's just been caught out and that's it. He's given away a foul as a result. Like, as you say, what's he meant to do? Look over your shoulder when the ball's coming in to see what's behind you. That would be a good place to start, like he's ball watching rather than concentrating on the defenders around him and then he's like oh shite, and goes for a tackle and he ends up booting the man. So there you go, there's a penalty.
Speaker 3:They did a bit of analysis on it on Saturday night football after the game with Jamie Redknapp and Mika Richards. And Jamie Redknapp was like you know, mika, top level defender, talk us through what he should do here instead. And like, gets him on the dance floor and he's like I'm Vardy, I'm standing here, like you know what should you be doing. And then Mika Richards just goes and stands and does exactly what Ait Nuri was doing, which was facing the wrong way, and he's like here and Jamie Redmap's like maybe you've got to open your body up more so that you can see the ball and you can see the man.
Speaker 3:and Mika Richards is like yeah, you've got to open your body up more so you can see the ball and you can see the way to solve this conundrum is have eyes on the back of your head and you'll be fine it's like no wonder Mika Richards maybe wasn't the level of defender as he was on Ataka, because he was standing there and clearly didn't have a fucking clue what the answer was.
Speaker 3:Mika's been put on the spot by Jamie Redknapp and is facing a live TV camera thinking, fuck, I need to make it look like I know how to defend any more on this game. Like Wolves, much like Bournemouth in the game before it, like we'll get them in three weeks when we do the season roundup.
Speaker 2:I think just briefly, because I think Wolves came into this game rather naively the Highlands for the second penalty when he breaks through and, I think, say his fourth goal. Again, when it's a trademark run Highland doesn't get too many of them because defences are aware that that's his strength, that's his bread and butter. So we can't give him the space in behind to collect the ball at his feet and run, because once he starts running you really are in trouble. He just needs half a yard of space when he gets in a good shooting position and it's going to be a goal and we'll just let him in more than twice. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Again, I don't really know what the game plan was defensively here, but I think sometimes against City you're just going to have to accept the fact that you're going to have to sit in for long periods of the game and try and stay in it as long as you can. But if you give Haaland this type of space, it's only going to be one outcome and that's why the goal tallies down, because teams are more aware of that and not giving him the space to run him behind. I mean this is a top level striker, but I mean I think, any sort of top level. If it was Alexander Izak, I'd just be saying the same. You can't give him the space to turn and run at your centre half, or you're just asking for trouble.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. It's a sort of classic on-the-beach performance in that regard, really isn't it? In the sense that the players kind of went on with the game plan but probably executed it at about 80% intensity rather than 100%. That deals with the top of the table and it appears the path to freedom at the bottom is narrowing as well as we'll move on to Chelsea 5, west Ham 0. Here's Caicedo. Oh, a lovely ball for Jackson. Is he onside Nicholas Jackson to make it 5. Fantastic goal for Jackson. Is he onside Nicholas Jackson to make it five? Fantastic route for Chelsea.
Speaker 3:The Blues took a 3-0 lead at half-time through goals from Cole Palmer, conor Gallagher and Noni Maduike, before a Nicholas Jackson double inflicted the fourth and five. Sorry, the third five or more goal defeat of West Ham's season. Only Sheffield United have suffered more XG in this game 4.22, played 0.88. Mike, it was just an absolute doing by Chelsea. So of everything that Chelsea haven't been great all season but everything that could kind of be played into their hands absolutely did in this game, the amount of freedom that front four were given, the space that Jackson was given, the amount of times that Madiwiki was allowed to cut inside the sort of 10 yard circle that Cole Palmer was able to operate in. It was as if they had sort of loaded up a video game and put it on amateur mode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems to be a problem with West Ham. I think Molyneux's played there in a few press conferences recently. He'll say he'll take all the blame and then go into the slaggiest players, but quite rightfully so, because they have been making a few performances, such as the Arsenal game where they could have played in the first half as well. If I remember if Arsenal scored three or four in that first 45 minutes and they were all streaming out London Stadium. So while Chelsea have probably been one of the best or better sides in the league the last two or three or so months, west Hall they've just been meek and I think their position in the table is a bit of a false one, as much as I think it was a false one last season when they were struggling for a period of time there. I don't think they're quite a top half team that maybe their position on the table represents. I do think they maybe took a step back this season. It's understandable if you lose Rice to Arsenal, which is maybe the best midfield in the league. That's debatable. But evidently for a team like West Ham you can't replace that kind of talent and I understand, like Brian Alvarez and that, and I think that's partially the reason why maybe Moyes is the part and they're trying to bring a new guy in, because Moyes seems to be able to set up functionally strong teams that can be nice to watch at times, but taking that kind of next step to the kind of consistent European level and especially these days, I don't think Moyes has quite got that in his locker now.
Speaker 1:So I think it's a shame that he's leaving in one sense. But on the other hand I can kind of see why the kind of direction of travel is going and the rest of them. I thought after four and a half years maybe let's get an R voice and see if we can take up, because you've even seen when they brought in some skimaka up top last season and how effective he's been at Atalanta this time out. When he's got that kind of different, technically talented footballer rather than the kind of hard worker he doesn't know quite how to get the best out of them. And it's not necessarily a fault of Moyes himself, it's just maybe the way that he works. He wants his team to be very difficult to beat first and foremost, and I'd be like Sean Dyche. If they're conceding this umpteen amount of goals, what's the point of a day in a Moyes team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I probably agree with all of that, but simultaneously, sheila, you and I were saying yesterday, along with a friend of the podcast, grant, that because they are getting rid of him, it'd be really funny if it all went tits up and they were absolutely shite next season under what it looks like to be, julian Lopetegui.
Speaker 2:I think part of me hopes that that's how it goes. Again, I agree with most of what Mike says there. Like you know, they want someone that can take them to that next level and establish them as a top-half Premier League side with, you know, like making it a Europe on a semi-regular basis. But why is this one of their best managers they've ever had? If not me, sorry, yeah, if not the Sorry, I've got a wee technical difficulties here. My computer just went mental. I'm back Kind of yes, he's one of their best managers they've ever had, if not the best, like God's sake. He's got a European trophy, saved them from relegation twice and he's got them in the top half of the Premier League. I think what two out of the three?
Speaker 3:Three out of four seasons.
Speaker 2:Three out of four seasons he's finished in the top half.
Speaker 3:And three consecutive European quarterfinals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, sometimes it's like be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it. There's a game that's better for West Ham than that, I'm afraid to say. And the way they've gone about sort of moving him on has been, again, very disrespectful to the man's achievements there, like and again I think I saw, I heard it on one radio show you've got David Moyes doing his work for the game coming up in one room and then the room next door they're interviewing his replacement. It's just not really the way to do things and it's like you know, I've just waited to the end of the season and then decided to come to an agreement with Moyes that you know it's time it'd come to an end and it would all sort of like all parted ways quite amicably. But the way they've done it and just sort of hooting themselves out to anyone that will have them, and whilst Moyes is still there, it's no wonder that sort of performances have kind of went south recently, because the players don't really know who they're playing for, if that makes any sense, and Moyes hasn't made his decision.
Speaker 2:But again, it's just a case of West Ham obviously have bigger ambitions, but of all the managers that they've had. They've had some sort of more exotic appointments. What was his name? Pellegrini was there not long after the management said, and got them in a very bad position as well. So I think it's just a case of you wanted some more exotic manager to take you to the promised land, where it was Davey Moyes who got you there and actually got your hands on some European silverware Everything that you've ever wanted from your football club. You know, this guy got you and you treated him with this sort of disrespect. It's just a shite way to do business, I'm afraid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I kind of agree. I'm not sure really what happened, because I know Moyes was offered a new contract at Christmas and he kind of said he would give it to the end of the season and it's not really clear if that's been rescinded, but there never seemed to be any talk about it actually still being an option. It was very clear.
Speaker 2:West Ham seemed to be wanting to go elsewhere for ages now. Still murmurs, even at that time, that you know, even amongst the fan base, that David Moyes was not the guy they wanted to move him forward, which I can somewhat understand, you know, like the football, again, like moving forward, which I can somewhat understand.
Speaker 2:The football again, as Mike says, if you're shipping goals, then what's the point of David Moyes? The football's not particularly attractive on the eye, I do understand that. But again, maybe just appreciate what he has done for your club. Mike was banging on about last season, not worried about West Ham, and that's largely because David Moyes had built them in a formidable team, um, and there still are a formidable team. Just think that you know the West Ham, for all intents and purposes, were on the beach, um, and you know they're looking forward to next season already, um, and and in doing so you know they've kind of, I, put a dark cloud over what should have been a very successful four years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you look at the league and you could make a fairly strong argument and a non-disrespectful argument for the fact that they are kind of just where they're meant to be in terms of finances, etc. They're obviously not going to break into the top three. Aston Villa are having a particularly extraordinary season, which teams have and Villa are not short of a bob or two. They're a big team. Then you've got Chelsea, man United and Spurs three of the other big six and Saudi back to Newcastle. The only team above them that traditionally wouldn't be above them is Aston Villa and, as we've said, aston Villa are having a particularly good season and aren't short of a bob or two.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's kind of hard to say where else are they really meant to be. They're above your Brightons, your Bournemouths, your Wolves, your Fulhams, et cetera, et cetera. So, even in terms of the league, I question sort of what more West Ham could ask for. Crystal Palace are now on. Mike, you might be able to correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's their 10th, 9th or 10th consecutive season in the same points bracket.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they're in the kind of rough position that they always kind of are in. I think this is where teams get ideas above their station in a sense because, like you said, the table's kind of mapping out, kind of what you kind of thought it would be at the start of the season. So if West Ham do go on to finish ninth, that's still a very solid season for them. But obviously there's friction with him and the technical director behind the scenes which evidently hasn't helped. I think fans haven't been enamoured with him as much as he's got the best win percentage in his second stint in charge of something. He's been very impressive. In that first spell in charge he was kind of he was very poor. He had the worst win percentage in West Ham manager as well. So I don't think fans of Tim can tell him totally. Like I said, the football hasn't been the best at times. But I think this is a problem that football teams get themselves in. There's only so many seats at the top table and while no team is happy to stay in one position all the time, if you are a Crystal Palace, just try and build upon that season upon season. It isn't when your progression isn't moving up one space at the ladder every year. It's staying in the Premier League for 10 years, and if you do that for 20 years you don't end up like a Charlton sat Premier League for 10 years. Then how do you do that? For 20 years you don't end up like a Charlton sat in Kerbyshire. Go on ahead and try to do it.
Speaker 1:So when I said my first point on this topic at the start, it wasn't that I thought they could do better than David Moyes immediately, because I don't think Laka Tegi is going to be the success that David Moyes has been. Much this. I don't think it's necessarily a big distraction from the style of football that Lopetegui plays. It's just a different foreign voice in West Ham. So I don't think this is going to be the right kind of change in lateral direction that they want.
Speaker 1:But I just think that West Ham believe that they should be competing regularly for European spots. But, like I said, there's so little manoeuvrability. You can't always bargain on Chelsea, manchester United and maybe Tottenham having poor seasons year upon year. They're going to be in the European spots no matter how kind of poor they are for the most part. So I think you've just got to try and build upon your success, and how do you keep on moving ahead? Keep on moving forward, because it wasn't too long ago that West Ham were dodging up and down between the Championship and the Premier League for quite a while as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's a lot to be said for not trying to play exactly the same style of football as the seven or eight financially more backed teams above you, because you're then going to end up in a man versus man game and you're going to lose. Man City win all the time, Like you know. Bournemouth try and do it, Brighton try and do it To a lesser extent, Fulham and Brentford try, and maybe not so much Brentford, but Fulham try and do it. There's a ceiling to playing the same kind of football as Arsenal and Liverpool and Manchester City, and that ceiling is below them, because they'll always be able to do it better than you. At least David Moyes has tried to do tried. That is just the way he does things. But David Moyes does things differently, which is why West Ham have managed to get into Europe, to finish inside the top six, seven, to get to European quarterfinals, because he has a different style of play, which means it's not being faced off against these bigger sides that will just eventually come out on top. It allows them to compete in a different kind of way. We're not going to speak about Spurs today, but they're a great example of how they've sort of reached a glass ceiling this season. Andrew's style of football is great, but there are just other teams that are better at it than him, which is why they're suffering quite sizeable defeats at this time of the season. So yeah, a lot to be said for that for West Ham.
Speaker 3:And also, maybe it's just me, maybe it's following Aberdeen so closely for most of my well, all of my childhood. It's like I don't really get this idea of playing good football. I've never given a flying fuck about playing good football. Like I go to a game and I want the team to win and if they win I leave happy and if they lose I leave unhappy. Like, even if aberdeen could play fucking tremendously against rangers or celtic, I'm still gonna leave disappointed when we lose. I still was absolutely devastated in the semi-final of the scottish cup when we lost despite playing. Well. Had we played fucking turgid and got through that game one nil, I'd be infinitely happier uh than than I was. I just I don't know if it's an english premier league thing, it's just this idea of good football.
Speaker 2:I find it bewildering I don't think that's limited to the english premier league. I think everybody has their idea what good football looks like. And again you hear it from the stands at east end park, like when a pass is misplaced and all that sort of thing. Like you're watching Real Madrid or something like that and you're expecting you want your team to go out and scalp everybody 5-0. But that's not realistic at all. So it's a results driven game, like we've seen the tie turn against Ange. That, yeah, it's entertaining, but it's not necessarily getting the points on the board that you hoped it would. And at the same time you look rather foolish because you're determined to play this style of football, but even though you're shipping goals left, right and centre. So why don't you adapt slightly to try and see less goals and you might get more results? And I think that's just it. You've hit the nail on the head. I don't particularly give a monkeys about how you get the result, as long as you get the result.
Speaker 2:And then there's a different side to that, as Mike pointed out. If you get David Moyes and he's losing 5-0, then what's the point in having David Moyes? That's the other side of it. You can't play turgid football and not get results either. That's just as quick an accelerated decline. So, yeah, I think it's a balancing act. It's a balancing act really, and West Ham have played good football at times this season. They do have some very exciting players like Kudus Bowen. Alvarez has been decent, vorpruis has come in, so I think the squad is in a much better place than it was when Moyes took over.
Speaker 2:Obviously, you've lost Rice, but you expect that a player, as good as he is, is eventually going to be picked off and you're not going to be able to replace him. Like for like. It's going to take two or three players that could do what he does. Um, in order to fill that void and I think that's you know, that's just football again you've just got to sometimes take back and accept where you, where you want to be, and whether that's realistic and match up with where you are and it's in. West ham are pretty much exactly where you would expect them to be, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. You want to improve the squad year on year, which I think Moyes has done year on year, even losing Rice. As I said, these bottom players that are better than what was there already, and just the way that West Ham have gone about it, the way their fans bang on about them, some sort of European superpower, when the fact remains that they just simply are not and are never likely to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Any more on that, mike, before we move on.
Speaker 1:No, just me with Chelsea. Just a quick one on them. It's the fact that that front four I mean they were kind of all hustling for the penalty against Everton not too long ago and now you've got like Madaweke playing the ball for Jackson. I guess we kind of forget that Chelsea are a young team trying to come together as a unit, and it's moments like that that Chelsea can, and Pochettino himself can, maybe reflect on and think this is maybe a sign of progress and we're moving towards the right direction, and even if it doesn't end in a european buff this season, next season there's some shoots of progress going on at stanford bridge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree. I actually said in our chat when that madiwiki assist happened that you know, it's a really, really mature assistant, actually like unbelievably delighted to see that, even though he's in my fantasy team and if he had scored it was worth more points, like seeing him roll it to jackson for a tap in. You were a bit like, thank fuck, they're starting to do stuff like that, and Mujic had a similar one. Maybe it wasn't quite as obvious, so forgive him slightly, but did question whether he could have rolled it across for Jackson to get yet another tap in. And that's the sort of stuff that your Arsenal's and man City's do very well is, you know, absolutely making sure the ball goes in the back of the net rather than individual players being greedy.
Speaker 3:I completely agree, there are shoots. That's Trevor Chalaba. He's had 10 starts. Only one of those games has Chelsea lost this season. He was a player that was missing for the first two thirds. Worth remembering that Wesley Fofana's missed the whole season and Kunku's missed the whole season.
Speaker 3:It does look like there are shoots, and maybe only actually one or two pieces of genuine quality need to come in in the summer and not necessarily spend an arm and a leg to keep the team ticking in the right direction. Also worth noting that Samford Bridge had an enormous TIFO up for Conor Gallagher as well, and I think it's fair to say that the fans the match-going fans are absolutely desperate for him to stay, so you think that'll be quite important for the club to do that to keep the fans on side Players like him and Chalaba Alfie Gilchrist coming through as well. These kind of homegrown talents are always fan favourites. A quick point on a couple of other things. Man United are pish. Nothing new there. They got absolutely thumped by Crystal Palace, which is quite something. Eric Ten Hag is being touted with a Bayern Munich job.
Speaker 1:Mike, he's obviously put the lottery on and it looks like it might come in it shows you the desperate set of affairs at the Allianz arena that this is even potentially a possibility and you're probably looking at it going. It kind of makes sense the way that they're going to an Agscore relationship at Bayern Munich. He was in the B team when Pep was the manager, so you can understand, when even the likes of Ralf Rangnick, the other Manchester United manager, himself is turning them down, that Bayern Munich are on a sticky wicket where the biggest club in Germany can't seem to poach not lesser managers but even like kind of managers that you wouldn't have thought would be in the frame 12 months ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's bonkers and elsewhere Nottingham Forest had their appeal dismissed, so their points stay the same, which you know the three points clear of the relegation zone. But there are two games left. So there is a chance not just a chance, obviously quite a strong chance that they are still very much in that relegation fight, and had they been able to gain a point or two back, they'd have probably been pretty grateful for it. Let's move on to some other business. It was the final day in the championship. We obviously discussed it last week. Ipswich beat Huddersfield 2-0, which earned them back-to-back promotions absolutely sensational and the celebrations in the dressing room sounded fantastic as well. The best bit about that clip by Miles is the fact that everybody in that dressing room is clearly familiar with the tune of Waka Waka by Shakira, but I have no fucking idea what the words are and when.
Speaker 2:They all just go yeah man, yeah man, we're going up again.
Speaker 3:I did double check. The first bit's easy, which is the Samina, Samina Mina eh eh, Waka, Waka, eh eh. But to be fair to them, the next line is Samina Mina, Zangaweela, this time for Africa. So the boys obviously needed to get familiar with their Zangaweela, because that's definitely when they all go a bit nuh nuh, nuh nuh, we're going up again.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, ipswich in the top flight, which is a tremendous story. I think every neutral will be delighted to see them come up. If Norwich don't come up through the playoffs, I think it'll be the first time in well over 20 years, I think it is that they've been in a league above Norwich. The Tractor men will be absolutely. They are the Tractor men, aren't they Tractor boys? That's it. Yeah, kieran McKenna is obviously a great story as well, sort of different echelons. But much like Xavi Alonso staying at Bayer Leverkusen to take them into the Champions League, you really, really hope that Kieran McKenna stays at Ipswich just to to see what that team can do in the Prem and hope that they don't go the same way that Burnley have this season and sort of doing what they're trying to do. Leeds 1, southampton 2 means they finish third and fourth in the table respectively. West Brom beat Preston 3-0, leapfrogged Norwich into that fifth position, so they all play Southampton in the semi-final. Norwich were defeated 1-0 by Birmingham, which might have had you worried, but fortunately Blackburn also beat Leicester 2-0 and Plymouth beat Hull 1-0, which is almost the best way for Birmingham to go down is to do exactly what they needed to do against Norwich, but their two relegation rivals also both got defeated, which is fantastic. Both won their game, which is fantastic. Both won their game, sorry, I should say, which is fantastic. Leicester were already champions. Blackburn kept themselves up, likewise Plymouth and Hull sort of probably needed a bit of a goal difference miracle to get into the playoffs and narrowly missed out. But it means the other playoff semi-final will be Leeds against Norwich. Kind of hard to have any real desire for any of the four of them to come up, isn't it, given that their perennial yo-yo teams, west Brom being away the longest.
Speaker 3:Some of the playoffs have already started. The National League playoff Bromley 2-2 against Solihull Moors in the final. There they won 4-3 on penalties Absolutely tremendous. From the Bromley 2-2 against Solihull Moores in the final. There they won 4-3 on penalties. Absolutely tremendous from the Bromley captain who steps up to take the fifth and final penalty in this game, before doing so slips on an EFL captain's armband and then gives the goalie a little eyebrow raise and a smile before smashing it into the net and running off Bromley into the Football League for the first time in their 100-plus year history. That is the kind of shithousery I absolutely love. Nobody's getting offended by that, but that's proper backing yourself stuff.
Speaker 3:I can't remember who it was. I think it was the Everton goalie in a cup semi-final who took the fifth penalty and he took his gloves off as he was away to do the run-up. He took his gloves off and threw them away and then smashed the ball in the back of the net. And that's the same, because, had he missed, he'd have to put his gloves back on, which would have been well embarrassing. Mike, do you know what you say? Do you remember who that was?
Speaker 1:It's a similar situation, but Ricardo, in 2004 against England, did the same thing, where he threw his gloves away and took the penalty he got saved on with his bare hands as well. I think that may be true. I think that may be the case he took his gloves off for not the winning penalty.
Speaker 3:He took the penalty and saved the winning penalty without his gloves on.
Speaker 2:I don't know if what I've watched or whether it happened, whether he took the deciding penalty and scored it or saved one with his hands just beforehand he took the side-in penalty and scored it, or saved one with his hands just beforehand.
Speaker 3:Then they did it. He took his gloves off. Fantastic. I remember watching that penalty shoot out. Obviously, I was incredibly upset immediately afterwards.
Speaker 1:It was a Darius Vassell penalty as well.
Speaker 3:It missed? Yeah, because he never got back into the England team after that. He had 20-odd caps and then missed that penalty and was sort of hung out Of all people to be hung out to dry as the guy that made England fail. I think picking Darius Vassell was pretty fucking harsh. The WSL as well hotted up. Man City lost 2-1 to Arsenal Not a league we cover particularly often. Chelsea won 8-0 and it means it goes down to the last game of the season in a fortnight. If City and Chelsea both win, it'll go down to goal difference. Chelsea with a slight advantage at the moment To Scotland. The only title race that's still alive is Celtic and Rangers in the top flight and they play this Saturday and Ross County play against St Johnston as well, which will most certainly decide who finishes in that relegation playoff position of 11th. And then you've got Partick Thistle play Adrianians in the, I guess, the quarterfinal of the playoff. Slightly different system in Scotland Is that tonight, mike, that that kicks off.
Speaker 1:No, it starts tonight. Aye, they've got the right to play Ray Frover for a second in the league, and then they've got the right to play whoever finishes 11th in the Premiership.
Speaker 3:And the Adrionians seem to be everyone's favourite, as far as I can tell.
Speaker 1:They've been a bit off the ball of late, but they had a tremendous 20-24 to turn things around and really push themselves up to that fourth place. It'd be back-to-back promotions if they did go up. It'd be the first team since Lundsten to do that who, ironically, are going down this season. By all accounts, I'd probably favour Partick Thistle. To be fair, partick Thistle played the Adreans a few weeks ago and it was a kind of dead rubber because both teams were in the playoffs already. But Partick Thistle won 4-0 and considering how close Patrick Thistle got to going up last season against Ross County and Rafe Rovers are in dreadful form as well I'd probably think Patrick Thistle are the favourites to go up, but Adrian Owens are probably the neutrals favourite to go up in themselves.
Speaker 3:Are they actually full-time?
Speaker 1:Hybrid. They've still got a lot of part-time players, but they've only got a few full-time players. Yeah, I mean the manager, rhys McCabe. He's only 31. His cousin's assistant and they both play centre-back and they've got a few full-time players. They've got Meg Law from Hibs on Moon who's been tremendous at left back. He really is one of these guys that plays the attractive kind of playful football. They've been very good this season. They've been beaten twice to start the campaign. They've been beaten twice to end the campaign. That was really the difference between the professional top four or not, so they've done tremendously well. They definitely have the lowest budget in the league outside of our both, so he's done well in the rest of the season.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fantastic, and it's obviously the end of the season for Dunfermline. A few words of reflection.
Speaker 1:Meh, just one big meh. Probably, to be honest, big meh Could have been more injuries doing the cost. You see, when they've got the players back, I think they've lost three of the last 12 down the run, but just too many draws. I don't think they've won in the last five, not necessarily mad, but there was only probably a spell of two weeks where you thought they were in real danger of perhaps going back down via the playoffs. But outside of that, yeah, it's just a shame, since in 2024 we've been one of the poor teams and a lot is due to injury. So hopefully that tide turns next season. But it's going to be a very competitive championship next time out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. There's every chance. You have not only Livingston but quite possibly St Johnson in there as well, which in championship terms are two juggernauts almost, and then one of Wraith, airdreonians and Partick are still going to be hanging about as well in that situation, so two of sorry Wraith, partick and Airdreonians are still going to be hanging about, so that pretty much makes up your top four right there. So it'll be a tricky one. But to be fair, sheila, you said at the end of last season you wanted a sort of no chance of relegation year this year and pretty much what you got flirted with a few months ago, but it was never a genuine worry and allows you to build.
Speaker 2:I mean, I just want to see good football, mate, if I'm being honest, no, I'm quite on the face of it. I'm quite on the face of it. I'm quite happy with how the season's gone. We've solidified ourselves in that division now and we'll see what we can do moving forward. But again, obviously, now that we're in that division and we've solidified ourselves there, we need to be making a proper charge for the playoffs this coming year.
Speaker 2:I think that's probably very reasonable expectations set for McPig Because again there's too many draws, there are mitigating circumstances, injuries have been poor, but recruitment hasn't necessarily been great. And again you do put that in stark contrast to Wraith, who you know have had a although it's not probably the outcome. They would have wanted to have had a great season and they've beat us every single time we've played them, other than the cup game right at the start of the season, which is obviously meaningless. So obviously that's sort of one of the very, very worst parts of the season and that's something that we need to address next season. We can't be getting beat four times out of four by our rivals. It's not really not really great.
Speaker 2:So we do need to make sure that the recruitment is better and have a sustained charge for those playoffs, because we were flirting with the bottom of the table. For it's only a couple of weeks, but it's a couple of weeks longer than I would have liked. So that's the expectation next season. There can't be anything less than that. If we're in the same position next year, then it's probably time up for McCabe. Maybe a little bit wishful thinking there.
Speaker 3:I wish it was McCabe and as well as we come on to League 1, falkirk promoted went undefeated all season following a late goal at the weekend. And although they've been in League 1 for what? 5-6 seasons, they're obviously going to come into the Championship with ambitions of making the playoffs as well. They're a side that probably consider themselves as meant to be in the championship with ambitions of making the playoffs as well. They're a side that probably consider themselves as meant to be in the Premier League. I think it must be Dunfermline and Falkirk that have been in the Premier League this millennium but have then been out of it the longest Is that.
Speaker 1:The only two people that played in the SPL outwith Gretna of course, who went bust that haven't come back into the rebranded premiership of Falkirk and Dunfermline.
Speaker 3:Dunfermline. Yeah, and it also means that Dunfermline will have 8 derbies, like big ones, like you know, wraith and Falkirk are the big, big games.
Speaker 3:So yes, that's a lot of worth buying your season ticket for if you know you're getting four big derbies, I suppose with decent crowds. So yeah, falkirk won, won in League 1. Anand and Sterling was a shootout to avoid 9th place and with a draw Anand stayed up on goal difference. So Sterling will now play Dumbarton, peterhead will play Spartans and at the top, inverness, who finished in 9th in the Championship, will play Montrose and Hamilton Alloa to come up there, hamilton probably favourites Mike.
Speaker 1:Hamilton will be favourites of League 1 teams, but Inverness have a very strong team to finish in. I think they finished in 42 points, which is the highest total for the Championship. Positive goal difference as well. Their issue has been at home and they've just not been able to get over the line. But they're always in close games and they've got all their defeats, I'm pretty sure have been by one goal. If there's a game out with one goal, inverness tend to win it.
Speaker 1:So I just think, while Duncan Ferguson has not been enamoured by the fans up there, I do think they're probably the strongest team, but Hamelin probably the potential finalists out there, because even though Alba have been tremendous since Ben and Brian Rice, I don't think they've got quite enough to take on full-time Hamelin, even though last season they played each other in League One playoffs. Alba were got quite enough to take on full-time Hamelin, even though last season they played each other in League One playoffs. Alan Lomberth was something ridiculous. They were 5-2 up in the last half an hour of the second leg, got a player sent off and ended up losing 6-5 on aggregate. So I mean it's not outwith the Rebs a possibility, but I'd find it very difficult to see past any of us having a long final, fantastic and very difficult to see past any best-hander.
Speaker 3:long final Fantastic. And then, yeah, so coming up from League 2 into League 1, like you say, it'll be Sterling and De Baert and Peterhead or Spartans. Be nice to see Spartans go up, obviously, given they're not too far removed from having been promoted from Lowland League. Lowland League, thanks, mike. And at the bottom of League 2, then you've got well. Coming up from League 2 was Stenhouse Mew automatically with their fantastic season, and then at the bottom of League 2, stranra, who finished bottom, will be in a playoff against East Kilbride after Highland League winners. Was it Brora?
Speaker 3:No, it was Bucky Thishall, bucky, sorry aye After Bucky didn't have the appropriate licences in place. And just to finish off, no relegation from the Highland League and Edinburgh University relegated from the Lowland League, with a Broxburn, cretan and Dalbeattie star to get up. They'll play in a title decider on Wednesday. It's sort of full roundup of all the lower leagues there. Mike, it's been an absolute pleasure. Sheila's just had to jump off, so no goodbye from him, but thanks very much for your time, mike, and I'll speak to you again next week.