The Late Kick Off Football Podcast
Premier League final day / managerial departures / Newcastle / Scotland / Ultimate 5s
We focus firstly on Manchester City's sensational record breaking triumph, before looking to Arsenal's second nearly season.
It's the end of an era at Liverpool, and for the Premier League more widely, as Klopp departs. Roberto De Zerbi joins him in the job market, but with far less fan fare. David Moyes departs, what next for him. Could Chelsea be in the hunt for a new manager as Poch's future remains in doubt despite an excellent end to the campaign?
A very special guest Craig Johnson, joins Jamie, Mike and Sheela, bringing his magpie-tinted goggles we have a low down on Newcastle's interesting campaign and what they need to do next season.
A dive into the Scottish dominance as well!
AND.... as Craig is a new guest, we do an Ultimate 5s teams!
All reviews, likes, shares and of course listens are hugely appreciated! Why not leave a review right now, it only takes a second!
Please follow and tag us on the socials @latekickoff:
Twitter - Late Kick Off Podcast (@latekickoffpod) / Twitter
Instagram - Late Kick Off Football Podcast (@latekickoffpod) • Instagram photos and videos
Thanks to all our contributors:
Ciaran Fowler for the artwork!
Ross McDonald for the logo!
Mike Leith and KMAND DJ for the intro music!
We focus firstly on Manchester City's sensational record breaking triumph, before looking to Arsenal's second nearly season.
It's the end of an era at Liverpool, and for the Premier League more widely, as Klopp departs. Roberto De Zerbi joins him in the job market, but with far less fan fare. David Moyes departs, what next for him. Could Chelsea be in the hunt for a new manager as Poch's future remains in doubt despite an excellent end to the campaign?
A very special guest Craig Johnson, joins Jamie, Mike and Sheela, bringing his magpie-tinted goggles we have a low down on Newcastle's interesting campaign and what they need to do next season.
A dive into the Scottish dominance as well!
AND.... as Craig is a new guest, we do an Ultimate 5s teams!
All reviews, likes, shares and of course listens are hugely appreciated! Why not leave a review right now, it only takes a second!
Please follow and tag us on the socials @latekickoff:
Twitter - Late Kick Off Podcast (@latekickoffpod) / Twitter
Instagram - Late Kick Off Football Podcast (@latekickoffpod) • Instagram photos and videos
Thanks to all our contributors:
Ciaran Fowler for the artwork!
Ross McDonald for the logo!
Mike Leith and KMAND DJ for the intro music!
The outgoing, jurgen Klopp, signalled the changing of the guard at Anfield by heralding in his successor, arnie Slott, through song. After a 2-0 send-off victory over Wolves, roberto Deserbi departs with his last act being the ignominy of losing to that man Utd side and seeing rivals Crystal Palace finishing ahead of them in the top half. Luton leave the league in typical Kenilworth Road fashion by punching hard but getting thumped harder by Fulham, and match of the day said farewell to their iconic analyst, legendary Premier League striker and all-round top bloke, ian Wright, in tear-jerking fashion. But this is the Late Kickoff Football Podcast and I'm your host, jamie Guyon. Joining me, as ever, is Sheila. Sheila, how are you doing?
Speaker 4:I'm good mate. How are you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, not too bad at all. Thank you very much, mike Wood. Mike, how you doing. Yes, I'm well mate, I'm well Fantastic. And we're also delighted to be joined by a very special guest heralding all the way from Concert in the shadows of St James's Park. It's Craig Johnson. Craig, how you doing.
Speaker 1:I'm good mate. Good to be on Concert. Getting a shout out on a podcast is fantastic, by the way.
Speaker 3:Exactly. There'll be three or four people in the world that understand that reference, so hopefully one of them tunes in. Delighted to have you.
Speaker 1:No better place to start than at the Etihad Stadium where Manchester City made history. It's been the most breathtaking start. You can almost hear the motivation ringing in the players ears is.
Speaker 3:Bowdoin oh brilliant, what a start.
Speaker 1:What a goal. What a player had to be him, didn't it?
Speaker 3:Bowdoin scores City's fastest goal of the season when unleashing a curling inch perfect effort to clinch the title for the citizens within two minutes. The player of the year doubled the lead when stood on the penalty spot awaiting Jeremy Doku's pass. Mohamed Kouris' spectacular overhead kick that he set up for himself gave those sitting at the Emirates faint hope. However, rodri put the game out of sight as his first-time hit from outside of the box settled in the net. It wasn't the dramatic end of the season you might have been hoping for, mike, with your Arsenal hat on, but no, getting away from the fact that City probably deserve champions over the course of the year and doing what they do best and making sure of it early at the Etihad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting the job done, even though it's nervy for moments at the Etihad perhaps kind of they're missing the fact that, the Aguero moment, etc. But yeah, I think over the course of the season they've done enough because they've got more points than Arsenal. Sadly and I think that's really the indicative part was Arsenal huffed and puffed and they're unbeaten against the top six. They had spectacular results, but once again it's that fact. It's like even if you beat the top team in the league over the last 10 years, it's proven that you have to beat the rest of the division more comprehensively. As we said before, results against Fulham, west Ham and Aston Villa really what's cost Arsenal the title this season? Even so, they left it late against Everton. So even if there was a slip up perhaps, at the end of the day they had Arsenal were not getting the job done of their own merit either. So we've got to say fair play to Manchester City and for them, quite confidently showed why he's the player of the season this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Sheila, perhaps the difficulty being that West Ham themselves had nothing to play for, unlike Crystal Pass, unlike QPR in the game Mike referenced there, and so there was never really going to be the potential comeback from West Ham that we would have hoped for, even if Suchek did try and punch one in late on to give us some excitement.
Speaker 4:Exactly. I mean, I think that's what plays into City's hands is that there's always something to play for right to the very end, whether, if it's well, it has been the league for the past four years. But there's always something in their squad so strong that you know players that do come in also feel like there's a chance to sort of break into the squad, which is just a elite mentality to have, that even if you're sort of your fringe players can come in and still maintain the standard. But yeah, like with the running, a lot of teams are on the beach quite early and that's just not where you want to be if you're playing Sion, especially if you're the chasing pack.
Speaker 4:But, as Mike says, the results in Villa probably the most recent one, where Arsenal chucked it quite badly those are the results that come back to haunt you.
Speaker 4:Like I mean fair play to Arsenal, they've had a near-perfect season, but you know it's got to be pretty much bang on in order to beat City as, like you know, liverpool have already found out as well. Probably part of the reason why Jurgen Klopp's leaving, because he would have won multiple league titles if he was playing in any other division. But but as it is. It's just City are so strong and it's just difficult to see it ever coming apart, maybe if Pep decides one day that he wants to move on to Pastures new, but he seems to be at it for the long haul as well. So, yeah, you just don't really know what to do if you're sort of an Arsenal, because they are sort of sitting at the top table now. There's no doubt about it, even as last year was a great season, this year's been even better and it's still not good enough. So it really is the fine margins that it comes down to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I suppose there's 115 reasons why it might come apart in the near future, but we'll maybe come on to them in a minute. Craig, what have you made of City's season? Nothing but impressive, obviously, but obviously yeah. What have you made of their season? I guess?
Speaker 1:It just feels inevitable. That's my issue with it. You go into that last game and you knew that City were going to get the job done. I think I said to you previously it'll be 2-0 within 20 minutes. I wish I'd put a bet on, because it was 90 seconds that they took the lead. It is just a shame. I'd love to know whether we're in an era right now. In the next few years it may change and we'll have a new top of the tree Four out of five. I don't know what the stat is, maybe six out of seven. It's just losing track of how many titles they've won now and it feels inevitable. Um, it feels like a now or never moment for Arsenal. Um, for me, I'm not sure that they're going to kick on next season and be able to beat them, because they are just are just so far ahead and just keep marching on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Sorry if anyone heard that incredibly loud moped flying past the window there. Yeah, absolutely, Mike, you posed the question. What are we witnessing in terms of legacy? It is six and seven, as Craig said there, four in a row now. It's the only team since 1888 in the entire history of the English Premier League to lift four in a row now. It's the only team since 1888 in the entire history of the English Premier League to lift four in a row. We should maybe take a little bit of a step back and look at the bigger picture and appreciate how spectacular a job the entire City project is doing at the moment as well.
Speaker 2:I think when Geraint Cupp said that, take the charges to one side. No manager in the world does this for that team anyway. That's big praise from the guy who's been competing with Klopp for multiple years and in multiple countries as well. So just the weight and the sheer expectation of not just being the Premier League, but it's FA Cups, it's League Cups, it's Champions Leagues, it's Super Cups, it's Club World Cups it's all on all fronts, whereas Cups left Liverpool with six trophies and that's a very impressive haul.
Speaker 2:Arteta's got one FA Cup in five seasons. What is Pep's doing at Manchester City? It's just out of this world stuff. And yes, you could say there's a lot of financial dope and yes, you could say it's state sponsorship as well. But I do think you've got to praise the fact that the players are playing exceptional football. He's improved near enough every player that he's got. He rarely misses in the transfer market. Even if you've got all the money in the world, such as your neighbours across the road in Manchester, you can see how you can make an arse of it if you've not got the right people in charge. So I think, while it is a lot of question marks, with these charges overhanging them, you can't take the kind of gloss off what the players have done on the park.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree with you and we'll see what happens. With 115 charges worth remembering that nothing might happen and they could be found not guilty of all of them, and we all move on. But you know, you can look at net spend tables and general expenditure tables across sort of any three to five year spell since Pep's been there and City are never at the top of it, or they're certainly never out there at the top of it on their own. Chelsea and man United squads are both more expensive than man City's squad at the moment, not even taking into account sales as well. So while we might find out one day that City thrust themselves to the top of the table through financial irregularity that they shouldn't have done, their actual staying at the top of the table isn't being done on a budget any differently to some of their closest competitors, who are, well, I've just said, chelsea and man United, who probably couldn't be further away from man City at the moment.
Speaker 3:To be perfectly honest, it's not even like it's Liverpool and Arsenal. So there's no getting away from the fact. The players on the pitch, the manager and the dugout have to be the ones to get the job done on a weekly basis, and there's a lot more than 22 good football players out there, so it is still genuinely remarkable. A little bit of trivia only, there's only. Man City had obviously already won the league three times in a row. It's only happened five other times. Can anybody name the four teams to do it across those five times?
Speaker 4:Man United.
Speaker 3:United did it twice under Fergie. Liverpool probably yeah, liverpool in the 80s.
Speaker 2:I don't think Arsenal did it, did they?
Speaker 3:yeah, arsenal did it in the 30s right, so fair enough, aye bit before your time, mike.
Speaker 2:Huddersfield maybe, or something correct absolutely.
Speaker 3:Huddersfield were first to do it quite an elite like more of an elite club than I I think I appreciated. To be fair, I assume the three in a row would have happened a bit more often. Maybe because United have done it twice so recently it didn't feel as as unique, but, yeah, absolutely spectacular. On Arsenal, craig, I asked you what you thought of City's season. I suppose I'll just give you a chance to speak about Arsenal a little bit more. What have you made of their season and Arteta's attempts at dethroning City?
Speaker 1:I think it's a valiant effort. I mean, I've watched Arsenal a lot this season and I think they are improved and they are a bloody good team. Talking about them in the bigger picture, they are a bloody good team Talking about them in the bigger picture. This season potentially is a bit of a forgettable one really in the long term because they didn't get the title done. But it's good to have them back in the Champions League and pushing for the top.
Speaker 1:I do actually rate Arteta. I think Arteta is underrated what he's managed to do with that squad and with that club in only a few years. I sort of liken him to Eddie Howe in that sense. But like I said earlier, I do worry that that's the sort of peak of their powers. Really. I can only imagine City getting better. Liverpool will be an interesting watch next season. See how the new boy does man United again feel inevitable at some point. They will be back, unfortunately, but I just worry where Arsenal are now going to sit next season. I think it'll be tough with running again in the Champions League and trying to make it work in the league as well. So we'll see. I think Mike can be relatively happy, although last day defeat.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I suspect, mike, your hopes were never that high anyway to be fair.
Speaker 2:No, going into the Sunday, no, and after 90 seconds they were totally extinguished anyway. So no, I think next season's got to be something. I know it's hard to win titles et cetera, but Arteta's got no real room to go. If he gets another good win though, brings in the two or three players that he requires, ships out some of the excess around the fringes of the squad, then it's got to be Arteta. You've got to go one more, because then I think the players in the dressing room start to look at you, thinking are you going to be the guy that's going to get us over the line?
Speaker 2:It's maybe as harsh as that sounds, because Arteta has been kind of a revelation and it shows you what happens if you do get a manager who's got some promised time and eventually he's got them up in leagues from back-to-back seasons they're obviously by light this season to 5th to 2nd. I think there is shoots of progress and it does seem to be Arsenal back to their best than they were, I'd say, 21 years ago. But it needs to come with titles. So I think the FA Cup gave them some leeway when things weren't going great in the first couple of campaigns, but now it needs to be. It needs to be tangible evidence of what Artur's built up in the minutes.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's funny to say that again.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I was just going to propel them to that very top level.
Speaker 2:Well, I'd probably need a centre midfielder now because he tried that Havertz kind of role as that ball say extra attacker. He's proven a revelation when he's been given that kind of free roll and attack. Now Probably need a proper number nine as well in terms of goal scoring not in terms of necessarily he's going to start every game, but when you just think of options on the bench. As a centre forward you've got Jesus, who's had his injury worries, and you've had Nketiah, who he's a solid home ground player but he hasn't been up to the level of playing leagues and going for the title either. So I think centre mid and centre forward are probably left back, because Tierney's said as much that he's probably out the door. Zinchenko's he's not been quite a perfect fit under Arteta and what he's wanted and he's been playing Tommy Astor, who's obviously very food out on the left recently. So I think he wants a different type of left back. To go with that as well, I'm sure they'll buy Raya they also have the what do you call it?
Speaker 4:Timber, who's obviously was out for the entire season except like the first half of the first game. That is in a sense a new signing as well, so it'll be interesting to see what what he can do. But I think I agree with you O'Hara and O'Dea did a a proper number nine, as good as Havertz has been in the last sort of second half of the season. They are still like you feel, like the results, the Fulham results, the Villa results might have been different if they'd have had that sort of the Haaland. If you like. Obviously you can't go out and buy Ireland Haaland, they're just not readily available. But someone in touching distance would be not bad, like Izak sorry, craig, izak would probably be number one target Boyan.
Speaker 1:Mayovsky.
Speaker 4:Boyan Mayovsky. He knows where the back of the net is. So, yeah, there's two targets from this podcast. Sorry, I don't think you're coming for Chris Kane anytime soon. So, fans, we're alright, we can rest easy. But yeah, that would. That would be probably again, as everybody said, there isn't much room to improve, but those are areas where you feel like there are. If they can get a proper number 9 and then have it Jesus playing second fiddle to that guy, then, as Mike says, finally move to Philomar, find his actual level.
Speaker 3:Thomas Partey can fuck off into Europe somewhere so that we stop having to talk about him all the time. That'd be nice as well If they were able to get a central midfielder to come in. It'll be interesting to see where they go next season, because the biggest regret for them, mike, is probably Obviously. I don't think you could say not winning the league was a regret per se. It's incredibly difficult and they're against man City. I think the only actual regret will probably be their performance in the Champions League and the way they came undone against Bayern in that quarterfinal that they were probably not only favourites but genuinely expected to win, and they'll be looking for a slightly stronger performance in Europe next season as well. You would have thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially with their previous against Porto that took penalties as well, and this is not a Porto side that even won their own domestic division as well.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think there is still a ways to go for this Arsenal side to get over the line more consistently in terms of the way that man City do. It's incredibly hard, but I do think there is options and there's ways to go about things, and you've just got to be a trust of a tear that he's going to get more things right than wrong and hopefully he's rectified what he thought's gone wrong this season and like that, the center midfield is a bit of a mess in terms of party being aging, your genius getting off contract, but effectively he's just replacing ellen any as that kind of elder statesman in the middle of the field. Rice has been fantastic, a revelation of a sign and even 100 millionm, but it just feels like it needs that extra something. Compliment Odegaard and the rest of the players around it as well, but I do think if there's one man you expect to find the right guy for that team, it will be Arteta.
Speaker 3:They seem to be missing. I know it's easy to say, but Akante, rodri, fabinho, fernandinho, you know a player in that position of that ilk, perhaps the only one I can think of off the top of my head in the Premier League who is realistic, because you're obviously not going to sign Rodri. It's maybe Polina, but I guess that's partly why you signed Declan Rice. It just turns out he's a lot better slightly further up the pitch than perhaps people gave him credit for previously. It's that sort of deep-lying holding midfielder role in number nines are increasingly difficult to come by in Europe, altogether At the top table. So it's an easy thing to say you just need to go and sign Kante or Rodri, who have probably been the best two in that position for a decade. But you know, that's the kind of thing you, I think Arsenal, probably need to kick on to the next level before we move on anymore for any more. On City or Arsenal, fantastic.
Speaker 3:Well, while Pep was building his dynasty at Manchester City, other managers are leaving big shoes to fill. In particular, one of them was Jurgen Klopp. His legacy came to an end on the final day of the season. Nine years as manager of Liverpool, a Premier League title, a Champions League, an FA Cup and two League Cups. And and sticking with the positives, craig, you've got to say all of us are neutrals to this, but he's been the best Liverpool manager of the Premier League era, without a doubt, and he'll leave a massive hole not only at the head of Liverpool but in the Premier League as a whole.
Speaker 1:I like the Premier League because you look back at some of the older Liverpool managers and they didn't have much competition in that front. But yes, an absolute icon of the Premier League of Liverpool, I don't think he'll ever be forgotten and what he's achieved taking City all the way, although they missed out in that season, getting ridiculous points total deserved to win the league, champions League and also the style of football. I personally loved watching that Liverpool team and how he took them from having a really shoddy squad. When you look back and what he managed to achieve with Salah, mane, firmino just an iconic team that I think will go down in history. He wasn't the most liked guy around I think that's fair to say from the neutrals, but nothing but respect from those who enjoy that type of football and love the Premier League.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think everything you've said there is absolutely spot on. And on that sort of dislike thing, Sheila, we've certainly given him a little bit of stick rightly so at various points throughout doing this podcast. He can be a snippy old bastard in interviews, to say the least, but there's no getting away from the fact that he has both sides of the coin. For his sort of unlikable traits at certain times he's got plenty of likable traits, and even just his performance on the pitch at the end of the Wolves game, his speech and his singing and the way that he was embracing the players and the staff kind of, were showing all of his positive qualities that have led to him being so successful at Liverpool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing that separates him from the other managers that have been in charge in our lifetimes since the Premier League started is that he has resonated with the fans, probably the best sort of understands the culture of the club. I know that we hate the expression up in Scotland where it's a good Rangers man, a good Celtic man, but Jurgen Klopp is a good Liverpool man. It's turned out in the end. I think. I like to think that in the years that go past, the moniness in that won't tarnish his legacy too much, because he is a phenomenal football manager. To compete with City is going to bring out the worst in you at times, I'm sure as well, especially considering the elephant in the room with regards to their charges. But obviously Liverpool have spent heavily as well. But yeah, it's just been a great addition to the Premier League and what he did transformed that Liverpool team into one of the most entertaining in the league.
Speaker 4:I think that's fair to say that when Liverpool were at their absolute best, it was nothing quite like it. Probably better to watch than sit at their best. So again, I think that would be fair. Well, that would be a fair comment also, if I can get my words out and yeah, massive shoes to fill for Mr Slot Slot right in. We'll see. I'm not so sure myself, but again, it's going to be very interesting. But Liverpool have actually had a great season. I know it's disappointing in the end, but compared to where they were last season and then the rebuild semi started again it's going to be an interesting summer for them, whether it's Salah going to stay or where do they freshen up next, because Nunes apparently fell out with everybody, so the sly hasn't quite worked to the extent you would have hoped. But yes, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens next. But as far as this chapter Liverpool has to be concerned, they can look back on the last nine years quite fondly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, just before we come on to sort of next season. I think that was a fair point to make, that they did actually have a tremendous season. You kind of almost very quickly forgot that it was a three-horse title race just because for the last three games it wasn't, but they were top within the last 10 games, legitimately. So they certainly did their part in pushing City all the way again this season. For anyone that hasn't seen it, there's a fantastic article on the BBC website that went up today, sort of going through his time at Liverpool. But a few good stats and a couple of little trivias I can throw out to you. I'm just looking at his first ever start in XI in the Premier League, which was against Mauricio Pochettino's Tottenham back in October 2015. If you get one wrong I'll knock you out so that we don't hang around on this too long, but I'm taking it in turns to name players that featured in that starting XI. Craig, seeing as you're the guest, I'll give you first dib, so you've got the best possible chance.
Speaker 3:Mignolet yeah, Mignolet started in goals Mike Daniel Agger.
Speaker 2:Sorry, daniel Agger.
Speaker 3:No, Mike, straight out Sheila.
Speaker 4:Henderson.
Speaker 3:No, they didn't start Henderson. Well done, craig, on your victory. So it was Mignolet in goals, a back four of Moreno, skrtel, sacco and Klein, then it was Lucas and Chan, then it was Coutinho, lallana and James Milner with Divock Origi starting up front. That is a no injuries, no suspensions start of the season starting XI, and that is absolutely terrible, but yeah, anyway, fantastic to see that. And then the next question I was going to ask is 120 players, 121, sorry players played under Jurgen Klopp in all competitions. Any guesses on who played the most minutes? It's not a trick question, james.
Speaker 1:Milner Mike.
Speaker 3:Henderson played 21,000 minutes. This person played 28,000. James Milner no, milner doesn't have a big circle, so I assume he's not that high up on the list. It's like one of these bubble graphs you think Salah would be up there?
Speaker 3:it's Salah it's Mo Salah. Salah played 28,000, and in second is Trent on 25,000, then Andy Robertson on 24,970, van Dijk and Alison Becker and then it's Sadio Mane, roberto Firmino, Henderson, so it's like all the players that you would probably picture in like a quintessential Jurgen Klopp Premier League team. And the player that played the least minutes was current striker Joe Hardy, who got 8 minutes in the FA Cup against Shrewsbury in February 2020, and also right at the bottom is Brazilian midfield Arthur, who was signed in 2022 and he only got 13 minutes. I remember them signing him and folk thinking that, oh, that's quite interesting, that's quite a good sign and see what difference he'll make to the squad. Clearly, absolutely bugger all difference whatsoever.
Speaker 3:But yeah, spoke about their legacy a fair bit there, and also worth mentioning that, despite only winning one Premier League title, in my view, the Premier League over the last nine years has needed Jurgen Klopp because if it wasn't for them, city wouldn't have even had a competition. They'd have been winning the league by 20-30 points over man United, spurs, arsenal, etc. Every year. So, even though he might not have got Liverpool over the line as often as he perhaps would have liked, he's certainly been there or thereabouts to make the leagues at least a little bit interesting.
Speaker 3:But yeah, going into the summer, mike new manager at the helm, who we discussed in great detail three or four weeks ago, but, as it's been alluded to by Craig and Sheila, there's quite a lot of possible turnover there. The fullback positions will be interesting. Andy Robertson's obviously getting on a little bit. We don't know what's going to happen to Salah. Ever since Darwin Nunes was asked to draw a horse for some weird six minute long Johnson Johnson advert, he seems to have gone and a half. So it could be a summer of a sort of post Fergie, post Wenger feel to Liverpool next year yeah, it probably needs about like an answer.
Speaker 2:He needs Salah to go away to really help him move on that process, because he's a massive earner. He's 32, 33 now. I think the way he wants to play. He could do with getting some of the more experienced heads out of the dressing room just so he can win some of the younger guys onside. And then he's got to get his compatriot Van Dijk onside and he's got to get Bill and Chet onside as well. And if he gets those players onside by and to his methods, then he stands a chance.
Speaker 2:But it's very hard to choose to fill and I think players on the side buying into his methods, then he stands a chance, but it's very hard to choose to fill. I think the way that he plays as a style could transition well potentially to Liverpool. But, as we've talked about in the past, such coaches coming across whether it's the culture, whether it's the way that they're hard and fast in their methods it doesn't seem to translate too well to the Premier League. But maybe he'll be the one to break the mould. But yeah, I think it's. I've not got great expectations for it because I think it's going to be very hard to perhaps connect to the fans in the way that Klopp has, and I think that's the one thing that you definitely need as a Liverpool manager is that connection to the city, more so than perhaps any other town or city in England.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree with you. Liverpool, despite being a two club city, being Liverpool manager does seem to come with some kind of almost mayor like status to their fans and the people of Liverpool as well. Anything to add to that? Shula? No, craig, nothing else on Liverpool. We'll see how they get on next season. Before we come on to Newcastle, craig, we'll cover off the rest of the Premier League bits and then that way you'll have free reign for as long as you need to talk all things Newcastle United. One of the other big managerial exits Roberto Di Zerbi, sheila. I think we sacked him in November, so perhaps not a massive surprise to see that he did eventually go. He's been sort of a bit of a sour faced bastard since Christmas and a new start for Brighton and no doubt Deserby heading somewhere big in Europe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean like I think I don't know what really to say on Deserby, to be honest. But yeah, I think you I don't know what really to say on the Zerbe, to be honest. But yeah, I think you know, as a compliment last year with taking Britain to Europe, is very commendable, but this season it's just been about a damp squib, to be honest. It's just like they finished 11th and you know they've not played particularly great over the course. There's been some good performances, yes, but a lot of just like meh, very meh season for Brighton. I think that's just like there was.
Speaker 4:Zerbe was touted for a leverage job at one point or another. I don't think I don't speak for everyone, but I don't think he'd be. Don't think for everyone, but I don't think he'd be. I don't think it was a surprise that they opted for someone else, considering he seems quite an explosive character and whatnot as well. That's just not the right time to be at that level, for sure.
Speaker 4:But as for Brighton, you know they're shrewd operators. I'm sure they've already got some sort of succession plan. I'm pretty sure you know they were planning in November to, you know, get a successor in. It wouldn't surprise me to see Brett Frasier say Brian Potter, that's the Potter of the year. Graham Potter, end up back there, or someone of that calibre, because the club is in a relatively decent place. I think the Zerbi just wanted to have his cake and eat it. They sold all those players and he expected instant of instant replacements to keep them going on the right upward trajectory. But obviously that's not really how Brighton operate. The only player they sign is going to normally take two, three seasons for them to come to fruition, and then obviously Chelsea will buy them for extortionate amounts of money. But yeah, yeah, I think Deserby's been okay, I suppose in addition to the Premier League, but I don't think they've lost much by losing them either.
Speaker 3:I'd be glad to see the back of them. He is a miserable anti-referee bastard as far as I'm concerned, and quite funny they ended up finishing in the bottom half. Remarkable to think they scored the same amount of points as Bournemouth, who, after seven games, we were very much touting for possible relegation candidates, and if it wasn't for the points deduction, they also got the same amount of points as Sean Dyche, as Everton this season, which is pretty abysmal as well. They scored the same amount of goals as Fulham, a team that I don't think anybody's been overly excited about this season at all. So they've had a few problems with injury.
Speaker 3:Matoma obviously never really got going at all this season. Solly March, who was incredible last year, has been injured for most of the season, and Evan Ferguson doesn't seem to have kicked on in the slightest from his great 23-24, sorry, 22-23 campaign. But yeah, probably not the end of the world to see him go, mike, it'll be interesting to see who comes in there next then, because, as Sheila says, they've probably got an intriguing replacement lined up and they're a club that tend to succession plan pretty well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but by all accounts they'll be targeting Keira McKenna from Ipswich to come in. But I mean, on the face of it it looks smart. You just trust Brian and these things. Obviously, back-to-back promotions with Ipswich, it's very impressive. He's highly rated at Manchester United as a coach, so I do think there's much merit to that. Like Sheila said, it could be important. I wouldn't be necessarily surprised if he did go back, but perhaps tension and relationships there may be a bit frayed over the course of that saga that he went to Chelsea with. But I'll say that they're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:I guess two wrongs don't make a right or two rights don rights make a wrong In terms of the fact that they've got their way of doing things.
Speaker 2:They yielded slightly and gave Deserbe a few of his signings, but they didn't work out like the hood. He went back to Stuttgart on loan and he didn't even play much for them in terms of them finishing in Champions League spots either. You've got Igor Julio for Fiorentina. So these are like players in the mid-20s range, which isn't the kind of way that Brighton operate. They want young guys that can come through, like I said, in bed for a few seasons and then potentially sell them on, or they want guys at the other end of the scale like James Milner, adam Milano, daddy Welbeck, help the younger guys kind of integrate into the Premier League kind of system. So yeah, I think they'll be looking for a less of a divisive figure. And listen, if you're going up against Tony Bloom, there's only going to be one winner in the fans' eyes, as much as the likes of Zambia, and it's always going to be Tony Bloom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I suppose worth remembering. Potter seemed to sort of fall out with the fans a wee bit, didn't he? We had that get back in your box episode where he told the Brighton fans to get back in their box because they were moaning, and then they celebrated quite vociferously when Brighton beat Chelsea early on and Potter's reign at Chelsea as well. So perhaps, yeah, many thousands of bridges burned there. Sheila, what have you made of sorry, sheila Craig, what have you made of the Zerby and his time at Brighton?
Speaker 1:I think he's pretty forgettable, to be fair. But from a Brighton, you know Brighton fans must be looking at it and saying what a season. They got a taste of Europe. Bumped into some Brighton fans in Amsterdam on the way back from Dortmund and they were having a larry old good time. So I think they'll probably just look at this season as a good thing from a fan perspective.
Speaker 1:I do worry for them slightly because I think they're at risk of becoming a Crystal Palace sort of staple in the Premier League, but without ever progressing on, or having the semblance of progression at least. If they become a selling club, which they already really are, that's their identity, which is, I don't know, as a fan I I don't really want my club to be just a stepping stone for for other players. And it's a good business model and you know they're making money and admirable from that point of view. But as a fan, that's not really what you're interested in. You want to see some sort of progression.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm entirely wrong. Maybe Brighton fans will tell me you know, we were a championship club not that long ago and now we're a staple in the Premier League. That's happy days, but I do worry for the next sort of five years for them, if they can't progress because you can't, you know, is it good club management or is it luck Some of the players that they brought in who managed to sell for these extortionate amount of fees? And is that sustainable in itself? Because the big clubs can't, seemingly can't, spend that sort of money forever, chelsea being a good example of that and if that doesn't happen, then they might just end up stuck in this middle ground.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's a fair point, although Chelsea did sign a 17 year old from Brazil for 70 million euros yesterday who can't even come to the club until January. So fuck knows what's going on with their spending power at the moment. No, I think that's all probably fair, although the idea of a hyper conservative oil state taking over at Brighton would be quite interesting. That would be a bit of a culture clash in terms of them as a city. But yeah, all very fair comments. Be good to see Deserby away. To be perfectly honest and interesting where they go next, keenan McKenna.
Speaker 3:As much as Keenan McKenna would be tremendous to see at Brighton, it would be such a disappointment for Ipswich after everything he's done there. You want to kind of see him have a go at Ipswich in the Premier League and perhaps show Burnley and Sheffield United a thing or two about how to transition into the top flight Elsewhere. David Moyes also away, mike, we've spoken about him a fair bit, to be fair. His legacy at West Ham probably goes down as one of their greatest ever managers, as much as some West Ham fans seem reluctant to admit that. And it'll be interesting to see sort of where they go with Lopetegui next year, a guy who's not exactly famed for being the cheeriest himself didn't have an overly happy time in his brief spell at Wolves, and there'll be a sort of new look at West Ham next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Eton Alwyn, I think it's very much similar in David Moyes' style of football you get under Mopetegui. I don't think he's going to necessarily improve them that much, but David Moyes left West Ham in ninth this season and with a Europa League last season, so I think it's sort of a Europa Conference League, wasn't it? I think that's a very impressive haul for a club who's kind of meandering and been yo-yoing up and down between the Championship and the Premier League for many a year now. So I think Moyes has done a fantastic job in his second spell and what he goes on to do, who knows. But just in his overall all Premier League tenure he's been a very impressive manager.
Speaker 2:I believe he's only been in Gunn-Ferguson who's perhaps managed more games in the Premier League over the course of the 30 odd years he's been running. So he's had longevity and staying power and considering he's done it with a fair few clubs as well and for the majority of them, left him in a better position than when he came in, I think tremendous for what he's done as a Scotsman, of course, first and foremost, but what he's done for football management in England as well, because he's took a club like Everton and gave them Champions League experience, and he's gave West Ham a beautiful Conference League winning experience, and there's very few managers you can say about that who's done it for that long as well.
Speaker 3:Sheila, do you see him getting another Premier League job?
Speaker 4:Sadly for him. I think it would be more as a firefighter role. If someone shits the bed and they want to get rid of their manager early, then they'll probably give David Moyes a call. They could do a lot worse, to be fair, unlike the big Sams and the Steve Bruce's are one of these actually taking teams to success like tangible success and, as Mike says, for the majority of them, man United excused, you know taking them better than they've ever been, at least for a number of years, just for and I've never been out at least for a number of years, just for West Ham. It's kind of like the Finnish knife.
Speaker 4:If you look at the top eight, it's a very, very strong top eight, and for West Ham to finish best of the rest for me is a remarkable achievement. They have some very good players as well Bowen Kudus, who scored an absolute belter in the set of the game. Ward-prowse has been a good sign-in. Alvarez, just the defence ironically enough, a David Moyes team. This could probably be improved, but again, I think this is just a case of you don't know what. You've went for a more exotic appointment, like Liverpool got a slot and West Ham have got this slut who's been desperate for a job everywhere since he left Wolves and yeah, I kind of hope it all goes pear-shaped for them.
Speaker 3:To be honest, he sounds like he's been a family trying to live near a decent nursery for their kids, like buying houses in Notting them in case the forest job came up and then suddenly seeing kicking about london in case the west ham job came up, like and talking about slutting yourself out there to uh, to get whatever gig you can. I don't think I'd be too excited if if I was a west ham fan and you make a good point there, sheila finishing ninth in this current era of the Premier League, you're only finishing below the traditional big six state-owned Newcastle and then Aston Villeneuve who had a particularly sensational season under Unai Emery. You've kind of got to say there's very little more that any West Ham manager could be expecting to achieve without massively overachieving the last team we'll discuss. Before we do finally get on to Newcastle, just a quick mention on Chelsea.
Speaker 3:Reports today said that Pochettino had a meeting with Todd Boley.
Speaker 3:He said the rest of his staff are on holiday but he's staying in London for a few days and he'll have his phone on as he waits to find out if he'll be a Chelsea manager next season, which I find absolutely baffling, to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3:There could be any conversation whatsoever about whether he's going to remain at the helm at the bridge won their last five games of the season finished by some absolute miracle, finished sixth only behind City, arsenal, liverpool, villa and Spurs Managed to leapfrog Newcastle and man United late on in the season. Bearing in mind, they finished 12th last year. They've scored 19 more points than they did last year, and when their injury crisis was coming to an end towards the end of the season there was really green shoots of positivity around Chelsea. So it seems like it would be absolutely bonkers to get rid of Poch now, but then again that seems to be the kind of banter era Chelsea are living in. From a Chelsea perspective, craig, you must be slightly disappointed to have seen them make it to sixth, given how poor their season was, but ultimately it's been a sort of slow start and positive end for the London side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. I mean, as you say, credit to Poch for pulling that together. Spent what? Over a billion pounds to bring the squad together. Injuries have been shocking. All year. I think Chelsea topped the table for the number of players injured, which I'm going to bring that stuff up again when we get to Newcastle. But a squad that size, a lot of new faces, and he sort of seems to have pulled it together against all the odds. I think if you're going to replace him, then the question would be with who and who he's going to outachieve and Villa have had a fantastic season. Spurs started well and maybe petered off, but you look at the teams above you and you probably weren't expected to finish above them anyway. So I think it's a cracking season. You've got Europe. Next year we hope that man United beat man City on the weekend. So we still get Europe. But cracking effort and, I think, a couple more signs in there and believing in the Potts way. Who knows what could happen next season.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be silly to get rid of a mic. We've obviously discussed that a few times, but there are a lot of green shoots in that Chelsea team, and I made reference to Estevedo, I think it is. They are the 17-year-old, they're signing from Brazil, but Chelsea actually have a catalogue of players like that already dotted around Europe on loan or in South America still, because they're not quite old enough to come across yet, and so Poch is historically the kind of man that you want at the helm to bring together a sort of new young team, and it looked like that's exactly what was starting to happen for him in the last few months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. I mean, unless something like drastic has happened behind the scenes, I don't understand the reason for putting Pochettino off because, as I said, there is signs of improvement and it has been consistent over the last three or four months. I think, like we've said previously, only the top two has got more points than them over that period of time. And so bringing another manager in, having another transfer market where you have to overhaul the squad potentially to suit the next manager's style, seems reductive rather than progressive, and I think that's why you've got to keep the head of Pochettino. And, like you said, who do you turn to? It's like Andy Flick, or is it Zerbe, or maybe I'm more on that Sport and Lisbon. Like there's very few, perhaps, options that Chelsea would be able to turn to either. So I don't think that's necessarily appetising for the sport either.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think it's very strange for what they're doing. I think that they've thrown enough shit at the wall that some of it has finally stuck and, as you've seen, with the front six in the last few games, of Caicedo next to Gallagher, madawake and Mudrick on the wings and Palmer behind Jackson. It's not perfect by any means, but it's certainly a good building block for a manager to come into, and unfortunately it does seem to be a project manager. But it does take a bit of time, as much as every manager demands time. You've seen with Tottenham, once he gets it right and once he gets it going it can produce decent results, and Spurs have never been as good since. So there's no reason why you can't take Chelsea to a level of stability that's not been seen there for a while.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Just to jump in at that point again, you mentioned the signing of a Brazilian lad there for 70 million euros and given what we're hearing at Chelsea that they're not going to be able to spend too heavily I'd be pretty raging if I was Poch and I went to go. I think I need X Y Z player to improve the squad and, by the way, your transfer budget has just been slashed by 70 million euros and it probably means you'll have to sell one of the players that you've been, you've sort of established in your 11 like a Gallagher or a Chalaba, who's actually turned out to be, you know, vital to this late surge to sixth place for Chelsea. So again, it's maybe a case of you know, paul and Boli just going rogue and ultimately upsetting the guy. That could be the key to maybe not taking Chelsea right to the very top of the league again, but certainly get them established back in the Champions League regularly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're only five points behind Aston Villa in the end, which is also ridiculous. It really wouldn't you know you think the 2-2 draw against Burnley where they threw away the lead twice? You get little things like that where the difference between this late surge, taking Chelsea into the Champions League or not. So yeah, these sort of odd signings are very strange. Apparently, the payments are spread over a number of years and they're going to give him a 23 year contract or something like that.
Speaker 3:It's probably coming off on like £15 a week payments or something I've got him on.
Speaker 4:Klarna two striker, three payments. But again, it's still. You're probably right. He has probably spread over a thousand years, but you've already got a billion pounds worth of talent already spread over that same amount of time. It soon mounts up. You know what I mean. Like you can't.
Speaker 3:You can't, just just can't get get away with that yeah, unless he comes in and he's the the next R9 or something. But yeah, he're obviously setting his heights pretty high, but what's?
Speaker 4:like, yeah, it's like again, chelsea's not the easiest team to break into. So you know, it could be like three, four years before we finally see him. Christ, it could be three, four years before we see him on the bench, given the way that Chelsea bring in young players that are right. You're away to Stuttgart for seven years. We'll see you then.
Speaker 3:Well, they've got the boy Santos on loan at Strasbourg. At the moment he was on loan at Nottingham Forest for six months, basically didn't play, went to Strasbourg, played ten times. And a guy, a former colleague of mine, is a Strasbourg fan and follows him very closely and he said he's been fine.
Speaker 3:And describing somebody as fine for Strasbourg doesn't exactly get you excited that the 250 million quid we've spent on him three years ago is going to suddenly turn out to be worth it. So you're absolutely right. For every Cole Palmer there's a squad of players dotted around Europe that have never quite made it at Chelsea. But again, we'll wait and see exactly what it is that happens there over the summer, and by the time we're back to record the end of season awards or end of season quiz, episode Poch could already be gone, so we might have to touch on it again.
Speaker 3:But, craig, your big moment, we've built it up enough over the last hour-ish. Newcastle United they finished 7th in the end, just behind Chelsea. As we mentioned, it was a different season coming off the back of last year and we've discussed Newcastle a fair bit on the podcast. But you're obviously coming at it from a completely different perspective and attending the matches until the turn of the year, with some fantastic trips in the Champions League. So I suppose hand over to you to discuss first of all where your expectations were coming into this season and then just how enjoyable that first six months were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, expectations were discussed amongst the fans quite heavily going into the season. There was this debate fuelled by neutrals, I think think that Newcastle expected to be back in the Champions League again. I think most fans would admit that the season prior was an absolute outlier, and what a job Eddie Howe did to get us in that fourth spot with that team. A lot of things fell into place. We didn't have many injuries and it worked, and we managed to get fourth and get back in the Champions League for the first time in 20 years. And what an experience that was. I'm young enough, or old enough, to remember the Champions League. It was actually my first step. Of game at St James' Park was our last ever Champions League game against part of San Belgrade, and that was the qualifying round for the Champions League and we hadn't been back for 20 years. So that was amazing and you look back at the start of the season and it feels like it was four years ago. You had the opening day of the season where we trounced Villa 5-1 at home. Ternalli made his debut that day, scored six minutes in, and it was butterflies and rainbows and everyone was thinking we're going to win the league. That didn't turn out to be the case and we went on three successive defeats straight after that and the tone sort of changed. Where we finished is, I think, probably about right for us Seventh in the league. We've named the teams above in the league with the exception of maybe Villa. You'd expect all of those teams to be there, given the money spent and the size of the clubs involved. Watching the castle beat PSG at home was an absolute highlight, beating them 4-1. Of course, went on to be semi-finalists, same with Dortmund, who are in our group, coined the group of death for a reason. It was disappointing to finish bottom of that group after that start, but ultimately we got those trips and we enjoyed ourselves.
Speaker 1:Much like I was saying about Brighton now, what a weird season. We beat Sheffield United 8-0 in this season. Again feels like a lifetime ago we had the West Ham 4-3, 3-1 down at home. I was with yourself, jamie, listening to that on the radio and what an experience that was. But the injuries it's been touched on. We had 1900 days across the squad missed this season, which is experience that was, but the injuries it's been touched on. We had 1,900 days across the squad missed this season, which is just exceptional and, unlike Chelsea, we didn't have the squad size to get away with that. You'll recall the meme that went round at the starting 11,. That was missing and it was a genuinely good team. That team probably would have finished 7th and at one point in time that was missing and it was a genuinely good team. That team probably would have finished 7th and at one point in time that was missing. We scored the most goals we ever have. We've conceded the most goals we've ever had.
Speaker 1:We've averaged 3.8 goals a game, which is exceptional we're very Eddie Howe we're very Eddie Howe, we're very entertainers and we're being coined the accidental entertainers. Don't think anyone wants us to play like that. Doesn't quite have the Kevin Keegan ring to it, but what a season. What an entertaining team. Fabulous football at times Drudgery and hardship at others, but overall I think we're about where we should be at this stage of this new era. Weirdly, this is the only time since Sir Bobby Robson that we've had two seasons consecutively in the top ten, which really puts it in perspective of how big this project is. Amanda Stable said when she came in we'll win the Premier League within five years. I think that was pandering to the fans a little bit and didn't quite appreciate how hard that would be. We've touched on man City and the credit that goes to how that club's run. It's not a case of throwing money at it, particularly now with FFP, and I think Amanda Staveley and the ownership are right to try and emulate the way man City run their club, albeit without the injection of suspect cash, which we can't do, unfortunately. Some people would have us just buying our way to that. I don't think that's the case at all. I think Eddie Howe's done a fabulous job. Everyone backs him right now, but I think it's a little bit similar to Arteta. Although they're not challenging for titles in our own battles, we need Eddie Howe now to kick on and start getting the job done.
Speaker 1:I think we came close last season in the League Cup. This year, we had a good couple of Cup runs. We knocked man City out of the League Cup, which I think most of the nation would thank us for stopping them doing another treble. We beat man United. We got Sunderland in the Cup, which was the first time since 2016. And I got to go to that, which was amazing. I think. Looking forward, it's what's next for us. I think it's a big, big transfer window coming up, the key thing being, which we've already touched on, is Isaac the ideal fit for Arsenal? Is Bruno going to go elsewhere? Man City have been looking at him and, frankly, without a Newcastle hat on, I think business-wise it makes sense and for Arsenal and man City, both those sign-ins probably make sense. So can we keep on to them and can we push on next season with a new squad? Pretty much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're going to be sorry, craig yeah, the last thing was just Tenali.
Speaker 1:It's a very pardue statement, but he's like a new signing. Of course, that was when we couldn't sign anyone, but Tenali really is going to be like a new signing. He's back in full time training, has been for a while, so be interesting to see what he can kick on and do next season.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because he was nearly 80 million, was it Circa 80 million? So he was obviously a massive part of the investment. Last summer, yeah, listening to that West Ham game with you on the radio was quite funny. And then when Newcastle scored the winner, seeing you wheel off to do a big, long celebratory run, but remembering it was 32 degrees and we were on a steep hill, so it lasted about three yards before you changed your mind and came back again. But yeah, it's been a slightly bonkers season for Newcastle. Mike obviously listening to Craig there speaking with almost entire positivity We've been a little bit down on Eddie Howe Well since he got the job, although we did credit him at the end of last season for doing much better than we had anticipated. But we were maybe a little bit critical of him again this year and Craig makes the good comparison to Arteta. There's going to be genuine pressure on him now next year to try and drive Newcastle on to being consistent top four contenders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think the Champions League came a season too soon for them where they had to scramble and really put the investment in place to try and just get up the Champions League quality and, of course, the group of death they touched on there. That it was very difficult to get out of and I think it was a slight disappointment but not a complete surprise that they didn't get out of it in the end. But, yeah, I think, just the way that they didn't get out of it in the end but yeah, I think just the way they've got to adjust this summer and be spot on with their recruitment and in terms of how do you offset that with, like you said, if Bruno Goumerage goes, if Isak goes, and how do you replace these players, like we said, some of the fringes Paul Dummett's the running joke, how he's still on the squad.
Speaker 2:Emil Kraft I mean a league cup player if there's ever been one. And the Bravkas I mean he's been okay, he's been alright, but of course he's no Nick Pope. So there's just a lot of things that you'd say. They've got probably a strong 11 on the paper, but how do you fill that out to a 15 or a 16? And how do you cut some of the kind of dross that's on the squad on a match day as well. So I think Eddie Howe's done a perfectly solid job for his first few years in charge. It's just how do you kick on from there and how do you get the somewhere that goes with it because Craig obviously knows more than me but somewhere. To a Newcastle fan that would be a massive, massive coup and really put you up in the echelons, I imagine, of some of the yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:When was the last time Newcastle won somewhere the 50s, 53, something like that in the FA Cup, which I actually learned yesterday that the goalkeeper for that FA Cup winning Newcast for you all the same, in case that ever comes up, um, sheila, there's obviously going to be, uh, some strengthening needed, uh, at newcastle. Where do you see the? Let's say, in an ideal world, they keep isaac and I, actually, I personally think they will keep isaac, because I think you're talking three figures of the millions, hundreds of millions, to be able to sign him. And I'm not sure, well, chelsea don't have that kind of money and I'm not sure arsenal are dropping 100, 110 million for the second summer in a row to to get isaac. And then let's just assume that man city don't spend sort of 50, 60 that they probably need to spend on minimum, on on gimorish, and they keep gimorish as well. Where do you see the, the positions that they need to strengthen most next year?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, first of all I'd say I think I agree with you that both those players will stay, but I think probably only get one more season out of them before they themselves might try and force a move. If you know, they don't sort of at least get close to the Champions League In terms of where do you stand? I think Mike's right, you need to trim some fat Again. Paul Dummett, Kraft Almiron still there Long staff who should really be playing for Wolves or something like that. I think that's the second time they just take anybody's shite. Really Wolves, eh.
Speaker 3:That's Mike Gary O'Neill, you're talking about.
Speaker 4:In Sheila's world, everybody goes to Wolves where their careers will die. But I think yeah, I think, just with this new case, they've done everything in sort of reverse order, signing sort of 60 to 80 million pounds worth of players and then they've not really got the £30-40 million that man City did when they first came into there Obviously £30-40 million at that. 2008 got you a lot more than it does these days. But again, I think it's just as Mike says strengthening the number 12 to the number 16 squad players. Who are they going to be be? And I think there will be sort of decent options out there. But I think again, if they can get the first game of the season and Isaac and Bruno and maybe even Anthony Gordon are all still playing in black and white that we chuffed the bets with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I forget about Anthony Gordon probably being Newcastle's best player this season are all still playing in black and white that we chuffed the bits with that. Yeah, forget about Anthony Gordon. He's probably been Newcastle's best player this season, and a bit of a revelation given the sort of criticism we levelled at Newcastle for the amount of money they spent on him.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. But I think this is where I sort of question Eddie Howe's credentials, because you know, as Bournemouth fans I'll probably tell you he's useless when he's got money to burn. Again, the Harvey Bartlett game I'll give that an asterisk because he's been injured. But you had Tony Gordon playing in that left wing position, but let's spend another 40 million on Harvey Bartlett, who plays in the exact same position as a bit of a daft one, considering you could have got James Madison or something for similar money. So again, that's just the one question I would have if I was a Newcastle supporter. Is just really the guy you want to take advantage of this good position that Newcastle are in? Because I think, relatively speaking, it has been a very good position that Newcastle are in.
Speaker 4:Because I think and relatively speaking, it has been a very good season for Newcastle, given the sort of the obstacles they've had to come overcome with injuries, and you know Teralli being a bit too fond of the bookies both in Italy and then again in England. But you know, hopefully he's sorting himself out mentally that he can put that behind him and kick on. So I think it has been a good season. You've got your European adventure. You're in a very strong copy. Second year in a row you've finished above man United, so I think that's pretty good going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, still pretty rosy, greg. Where do you see, then, from a fan's perspective, the areas that you need to strengthen, and why is it Dan Byrne's position?
Speaker 1:Quite right. It is Dan Byrne's position. Although Dan Byrne is a centre-back and that's easily forgotten because of his time at left-back both at Brighton and now at Newcastle, he is a struggle. He is one of those players who should probably stick around for at least another year because of the dressing room side of things, and Eddie Howe's a massive fan of that. So Dan Bermope going anywhere, he will retire at Newcastle, just like Matt Ritchie and some of the other players that you've named, dermot being one of the worst.
Speaker 1:I don't know why we don't just create a Newcastle-Saudi team, put a load of money into it and buy a full team of 11 of our second string, but that might have been too smart about it, I think. To strengthen, I think we definitely left back. Of course we're going to need a backup striker because Wilson, unfortunately, is over the hill. I think he's prime candidate for a Saudi move, same with Almiron. And, as Sheila said, it's that second string actually starting 11, really, I mean, it's good enough to compete at the very top, perhaps not man City, but certainly Champions League standard, as we proved in that Champions League run, falling short against Dortmund and PSG, who both went on to be semi-finalists. So I think that's no disgrace either.
Speaker 1:I think centre-back we need probably a Shah replacement at some point he's inevitably going to fall off. And the most interesting one is Trippier, who is widely loved by Newcastle fans. He's done a fabulous job. He was the first signing under the new regime. Unfortunately, he looks like he's over the hill now, which is really sad to say because it does hold a place in my heart, but pre-injury he was miles off it and coming back again he looked miles off at a door trap. So I think he's a club ambassador and should stay, but it's time to probably replace him at some point. Of course it's Tino Libermento to come back in as well. Maybe that's the man to do it or hold, depending on how he progresses, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting that it's largely the defence that needs fixed, particularly as you highlighted that start. That is, the most goals Newcastle have conceded in a Premier League season, which, given they've been relegated several times, is also quite interesting. So probably no surprise that you've named the back four as the areas that do need strengthened. And in doing so, I suppose if you replace Dan Byrne at left-back, what you do is you improve your bench straight away because it's got Dan Byrne on it, who's better than what's there at the moment.
Speaker 3:If you replace Kieran Trippier at right-back, you improve your bench because then you've got Kieran Trippier on it who can play sort of 30 minutes. And if you're chasing games with his set piece delivery et cetera, and if you bring in assistance for the likes of Fabian Schaar at centre half as well, it does just generally strengthen the overall squad. So probably quite sensible bits of business. And while number nines are hard to come by, if you could find a replacement for calum wilson and cash in on them as well, that would almost be like a, a bonus to the rest of the. The development that's going on in the club, I think, probably, uh, calls it a day for the premier league stuff anymore, for I haven't missed any premier league stories, have I?
Speaker 4:no, just the fact, just that we were finally proven right with Bomb 3, who were all shite all season, as we knew they were and that was that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, even with points deductions to try and help them out as much as possible. Sheffield United, with the third worst team in Premier League history, only worsened by Derby and Sunderland, craig you'll be delighted to hear are the only two teams that have ever been worse and on those very similar stat Mike, I think it was you that shared that Manchester United conceded more shots this season than the 2008 Derby team that scored the lowest ever points, which is quite remarkable. And while we won't do a man Utd bit, because we've fucking spent all season talking about man United but we don't actually know if Eric Ten Hag is leaving yet, so maybe we'll cover that in the next couple of weeks when it's finally confirmed. In the championship, leeds found themselves flying through to the playoff final. They beat Norwich 4-0, which seen David Wagner get the boot at Norwich, and they'll go again next season looking for yet another new manager that seems like they're changing quite regularly.
Speaker 3:That might be doing them a disservice. It just feels like there's always a different person managing Norwich, southampton also coming through 3-1 against West Brom, after both those legs were 0-0 in the first. Both those ties, sorry were 0-0 in the first legs. Southampton won both their regular season games against Leeds 3-1 and 2-1, including that one on the final day of the season. So it'll be really interesting to see what happens there. Sheila, both those teams would probably be positive additions to the Premier League, or certainly more likely to be positive than the three we've just said should go to.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I hope it's Southampton myself, because obviously you've got Russell Martin in charge a Scotland connection there as well and also he's never been in the Premier League before, whereas Daniel Farke is always in the Premier League at some point and has been shite every single time. So I think you know as much as it's good having Leeds in the Premier League, it's just a shame that that's their manager. He's like the best championship manager there has ever been, but the Premier League is quite clearly one bridge too far.
Speaker 3:He's the David Nugent of management.
Speaker 4:He is. He is absolutely. So I hope it's Southampton that comes through, and I do kind of like Southampton as a club as well, so it would be nice to see them back. And yeah, the bar is one of you guys would probably know a bit better than me, but surely collectively this is the worst points the bottom three have accumulated.
Speaker 3:What a tremendous question. I only wish you'd asked me that 12 hours ago so I could have found out the answer.
Speaker 4:It's got to be, because surely normally there's a couple of teams up there that are near the 40-point safety zone, whereas these guys are miles off it.
Speaker 3:Like Everton, have had points chopped off, you've got Burnley and Sheffield United only scored 40 points between them, and then an extra 26 for Luton, so 66, which is an average of what 22 ahead. So yeah, I think you're probably, without having anything to authenticate it. I think you're probably right, sheila. So yeah, it will be good. And obviously we've spoken about Ipswich, who hopefully keep Keiran McKenna and Leicester as well, and how difficult a season it could be for the likes of your Fulhams and your Brentfords, maybe even your Wolves as well. It's going to be a competitive bottom end of the league next season.
Speaker 3:The League One player final was at the weekend. Bolton Wanderers lost 2-0 to Oxford United. They'll join. They'll go up to the second tier for the first time in 25 years alongside Derby and Portsmouth, at the expense of Rotherham, Huddersfield and Birmingham. Bolton unsuccessful again and they'll spend another season in League 1. Craig, you were chatting to a friend of yours who is a Bolton Wanderers supporter and you said he had a couple of comments on how he thought the season had gone and his reflections having not got promoted through the playoffs again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a real. It's a real disappointment for them. I think from their perspective, this was, this was their chance. The leagues have been a bit weaker this year. They've they've been a bit on and off, but have generally played well. Um the quote from him is that's the worst we've played all season, um. It just seems like it didn't happen in the final for them, um, and they've missed out and potentially now um could spend another couple of years down there, which is it's such a shame. I mean, bolton are founders of the Football League. Massive club would be on a lot of people's top 20 list if you were to form an OG Super League and unfortunately they're down in the drugs of League 1 and sounds like they're going to stay there.
Speaker 3:I don't think I've ever seen Sheila frown quite as hard as when Craig just said Bolton would be in most people's top 20 Super League. Don't know if that was a disapproving frown or just mere coincidence, but I certainly went deep into thought at the idea of that question. You're on mute.
Speaker 4:Sheila, by the way, sorry yeah that's a different discussion for a different day, but no, it was just coincidence. And in the League 2 playoff final yeah, that's a different discussion for a different day, but no, it was just coincidence.
Speaker 3:That's just coincidence and in the League 2 playoff final, crawley Town 2 crew, alexander Nill. They'll go up to the third tier for the first time since 2015 alongside Stockport, wrexham and Mansfield, at the expense of Cheltenham, fleetwoodwood, port Vale and Carlisle. It's actually all three teams you know Saltport first time up since 2010,. Wrexham since 2005,. Mansfield since 2003. So you know, if you're a League 1 fan and you like seeing new teams in League 1, it's a great year for you, because all four of them going up are a little bit more interesting, and I'm sure Disney will be delighted at being able to get another promotion documentary out of the Wrexham story as well, and no doubt they'll be looking to kick on next year. It sort of reminds me of when you take over a like conference north team and football manager. There always comes a point like you absolutely fly through the first couple of leagues and then usually it's about league one, sometimes the championship, where you're like suddenly you're like, oh, you can't. I'm playing against a lot of really big teams here and I'm suddenly nowhere near as good as I thought I was. So perhaps that'll be next year for the Wrexham project. And in the WSL, chelsea won it on the final day in Emma Hayes' last game before she goes on to take the US post. It was her seventh title, fifth in a row with Chelsea to go with five FA Cups and two League Cups. It wasn't to be in the Champions League again this year, but she'll go down as the greatest WSL manager of all time, certainly to date, and it'll certainly take a lot to usurp her from that throne as well. And interesting to see where the domination of the Chelsea women's team goes into a new era.
Speaker 3:Next season, moving north of the border, celtic are champions for the 12th time in 13 years. It's the most concentrated period of dominance in Scottish football history, surpassing Rangers 11 in 12 seasons back in 1989 to the year 2000. Sheila, it's, you know. Certainly that's also the most part of our lifetime following the Scottish Premier League as well. And it's what has famously always been. A duopoly is very much in danger of becoming a monopoly if Rangers can't start to improve and compete with Celtic at the top. Because, short of that sort of one miraculous season under Gerrard, and worth mentioning that Neil Lennon was in the opposite dugout when he was able to win the title, so it should probably come with a Neil Lennon sized asterisk. It's been, you know, a generation of domination for Celtic.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it absolutely has. It absolutely has been, I think. But it's also just, you know, just to balance out and keep ourselves in the good graces of both old firm fans. As you know, like I think, rangers went invincible that season as well, so I don't think it would have mattered if it was in the opposite dugout, but you know, they were certainly given a bit of an advantage, considering when it was given the job in the showers, and we all know how that turned out.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I mean, celtic have just got everything right since Rangers went down to League 2 or the new Rangers came into League 2, and Rangers just keep starting. They didn't take advantage of selling players at the right time. You know Ryan Kent, alfredo Morelos and probably Tavernier as well, and you know they just keep going through these cycles of having to refresh the team, whereas Celtic have done it completely the opposite. They have sold players at the right time. Matt O'Reilly is probably going to be the next one to go for decent money and the managed to keep a hold of players that you know where the Scottish Premier League, the fringes of the Champions League, are their level Carter Bickers, thiogo Hatate, callum McGregor, boys of that ilk that just keep chipping away in the Premier League Joe Hart as well, to be fair, for the last few seasons.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely Obviously he's not there. He won't be there next season, but it is just players of that calibre that Rangers keep missing out on. They've got in Cackwell and Fabio Silva, who you know were sort of punts, if ever you've seen them, and that's just where it's. Where it's sort of stemmed from is that Rangers are just in this constant cycle of trying to find the answer and it's just Celtic don't even have to really get out of first gear. There was nervy times, probably a lot more nervy than it should have been, given that Celtic were quite a fair bit ahead and Rangers managed to close it back and then chucked it. Yeah, it's just Rangers can't seem to get a proper season together. They can sometimes win in a one-off game and, like the cup final will be an interesting one if Rangers can sort of gear themselves up for one effort to try and use their Celtics hold on to Scottish Cup.
Speaker 4:But that Celtic only had one title behind Rangers now they're on 54 now 54 and I think in terms of overall success, they're really not far behind in that thingy either. You know, rangers love to be the world's most successful club. Well, if it keeps going like this, you won't be far Within like three, four years. I'm sure it's that tight. So yeah, it's nervous times for Ibrox.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's sort of things that Rangers fans have spent their entire life sort of hanging on to, that they might be in danger of losing if they're not careful. Mike, the other side of the coin well, not the other side of the coin, sorry, but like another point to kind of back up what Sheila has just said. There, it's very much in the dugout as well. I did kind of take up what Sheila's just said. There, it's very much in the dugout as well. I did kind of take the piss out of the failed second Neil Lennon spell, but being able to get managers of the quality of Brendan Rodgers, not once, but now twice, and then also the seasons under Ange-Poster Coglou as well, rangers haven't had a manager of anywhere near that quality, you would say, since Walter Smith, before they obviously went bust, and that was back in 2011, the last time they had a manager of genuine kind of British global quality, and since then they've bounced from basket case to basket case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they've always been chasing Celtic in terms of how do we get this right, how do we close the gap? And yeah, it's just been mistake after mistake. They took the eye off the ball once they went down to League 2. They never kind of formed the base of that squad properly, it was just full of boys like Emerson Qadari and like Tengra, and the week in League 2 it was ridiculous, whereas you had Andy Robertson staring you in the face for four games a season and he goes to Dundee United and it's things like that under Ali McCoy and then Warburton, and even a period of shoot and recall where it was just disaster after disaster. I mean, famously they took two cracks to get rid of the second tier of Scottish football and then it might go straight up. So yeah, I think they've been hopefully mismatched.
Speaker 2:For years You've seen the kind of potential sell-ins that they've got. They've no rate to any money of any considerable amounts of sums. That's where Celtic's building and building the cash reserves to go with it as well. So Celtic are basically holding Rangers at arm's length. If Celtic want to go even further, then they've got the kind of funds to do it, whereas Rangers don't. And I think that's really where they've been slipping up and, like you said, the managerial quality comes with it as well.
Speaker 2:And that's just smart recruitment, smart investment in the right place at the right time. I mean, eddie Howe is basically weeks away from getting the Celtic job, pops up in Newcastle and then Ange comes in. And Ange says he's not the first or the second choice for a lot of these jobs, but he comes in and does a tremendous job and, like Rodgers, was just straight place, straight time. Obviously had a poor end to Liverpool and there was this opportunity to get back into it because he's seen a week of Rangers and he thought, well, that's me to get my foot back of Leicester City as well. So I think Celtic, as much as they get derided sometimes for the decisions they make at a boardroom level, in general what they've done and the way that they've recruited has been smart over the past 15 or so years now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I think you make a good point about the cash reserves there as well, because I think a lot of Celtic fans were quite annoyed in January but last summer that they didn't spend a lot of money to kind of strengthen this team and, in particular, make more of a fist at European football, which is something that perhaps has upset Celtic fans for a while.
Speaker 3:But you do have to say that if Rangers did ever drastically improve and spend a fair bit of money, that Celtic have the kind of capital sat there to be able to also go out and splash the cash. The reports today were saying that a number of Premier League clubs, including Newcastle in fact, were in the market for Matt O'Reilly, but Celtic are demanding 50 million quid for him. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think anybody thinks they'll get 50 million quid for him. But to even have the kind of gumption now for a team in Scotland to be asking for £50 million and maybe hopefully getting £35 or £40, which would smash the Chiarantini record for sales down south, it shows where Celtic are at, because Rangers look another generation away from having a £50 million player.
Speaker 4:What Celtic have done really well since the financial collapse of Rangers is, you know, they've built up a credible reputation for, you know, for Premier League clubs can come up and buy Dembele, akirin, tierney, wanyama and players of that calibre that can come down and, you know, not just fill the numbers down south but actually become stalwarts in the teams, whereas Rangers couldn't be further away from that. There's nobody really that you can point to and be like. He could have went down south. It just hasn't materialised, whereas Celtic have a track record of producing quality players. He could have went down south and played well. It just hasn't materialised. Where it is, celtic have a track record of producing quality players that can go down and do a job. So I think O'Reilly will be the next one to go down there, and you know.
Speaker 3:Signed from MK Dons for pennies as well, which is worth noting.
Speaker 4:It's incredible, it really is.
Speaker 3:And Celtic have a very good balance at having a couple of sort of club stalwarts in their team as well.
Speaker 4:You know they had Scott Brown, obviously for a very long time, and now that's been Callum McGregor has taken over that role as well, a player that's incredibly unlikely to leave, whereas I guess you've got Tavenier at Rangers, but he's probably the only one that's kind of had any kind of longevity and he's probably like again, sorry I'm jumping my gun right across, but like the thing with Tavernier again, I'm not a Rangers fan but despite his goals and what not which fair play to him is incredible for a right back and I know there's a fair share of them are penalties, which is, generally speaking, like his goals from set pieces and whatnot are genuinely astonishing. But he's the most spineless Rangers captain. I think I've ever come across in my lifetime Some of the shite he comes out with. It's just like you cannot say that if you're the Rangers captain and he continuously comes out with these sort of one-liners about like sort of weak mentality and it's like do you like, have you spent any time in the city or just come in for training?
Speaker 4:Then off back to whatever it is you live, because you just see, don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at all about what the the expectations of the city are. Again, hate the expression, but you need to be a good rangers man and in a sense, like you know, there are certain things you just can't say and like like we fold under pressure. I think that's a famous one of one of his famous lines yeah, and he's never really had any competition from anyone within the ranger squad that sort of understands the culture of the club, to sort of take him or any other members of the squad to task on that. And I think that's what Celtic have done so well. They've had Calum McGregor, scott Brown, who can instil that into you from day one, like, look, if you play for Celtic, this is what is expected of you. If you can't hack it, then you may as well not bother.
Speaker 3:Yeah and they sign. I've forgotten his name, the Canadian fullback yeah springs to mind immediately as somebody who like just seems to come in and understand what it what it means to play for one of the two big teams in Scotland, etc even before.
Speaker 4:That is like Juranovic, who was one of Croatia's best players at the World Cup, the World Cup, the World Cup. Replace him with someone of a similar sort of background and calibre, then yeah, just.
Speaker 3:I'm still here, don't worry.
Speaker 4:Sorry, sorry. Probably another technical difficulty there. But yeah, just, rangers are just miles off it, even beginning to attract a player of that calibre, never mind stumping up the cash. I don't think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was doing the maths while you were speaking as well, sheila, on the trophies thing. And if my maths is right, rangers have 118 trophies. Celtic have 117 major trophies, not including rangers winning fucking league one and the challenge cup. So if celtic win the scottish cup in the final against rangers, it would put them on the same number of major trophies and then if they win the league next year, they obviously get the 55 as well which Rangers celebrated so vociferously under Steven Gerrard. So it's an absolutely terrible time to be a roughly 25-year-old Rangers fan and I absolutely love to see it Elsewhere in the top flight.
Speaker 3:Killy back into Europe there. Hope to go further than getting knocked out without even leaving the country. This time they enter the Europa League second qualifying round. Hearts had already qualified for Europe as well. Finishing third, they guarantee themselves a group stage, much like Aberdeen did last season, and St Mirren's back-to-back top six finishers have seen them enter continental football as well. They'll be in the Conference League qualifiers and it's their first time there in Europe for 36 years. It's been an interesting end to the top half of the league, mike, just very quickly and great to see from a neutral perspective. Great to see teams like St Mirren and Kilmarnock drag themselves into those European places where you wouldn't usually see them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Derek McInnes has done a tremendous job at Kelly getting him up for the first season, solidifying him in the division and then obviously going for Europe this campaign. I think the way that he's got about things has been spectacular. But I know they've probably invested in the squad quite heavily in terms of what they can for come on up and someone like Steven Robinson gets a fair amount of slack for me personally, but what he's done at that club, like I said, it's not been done since the 80s, so that's tremendous for them. And listen, they might not get through many qualifying rounds but if they did, that'd be tremendous for the coefficient which just took a batter in the last few seasons.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. And you know, if you're a St Mirren fan, even just seeing a European game, I was going to say at Love Street, but I think they've played at Love Street for about 25 years. So wherever they're playing now, no doubt it's got some silly sponsors name Ross County finished second bottom in the end. They'll go into the Premiership play-off for a second consecutive season and they'll be playing Wraith Rovers who came through on penalties against Partick Thistle. How much are you two boys shiting yourselves that Wraith Rovers might end up in the Premier League next season?
Speaker 2:Less so now as Ross County. If it was St John's there I'd be majorly worried. But I think Ross County have got the firepower of Simon Murray up the top that'll give that race over his back line. That has kind of ailing and kind of got players out of position as a real chance. I mean Rovers really rode their luck in that game against Patrick Thistle. Brian Graham had a great chance in the last minute of regular time and if there was else in the park who'd wanted to be behind Graham but he blazed over the bar and even they went behind in the penalty show as well. So I think it's unfortunate that Patrick Thistle didn't come through that tie but hopefully Rafe Rovers not comes out on Sunday.
Speaker 3:Who do you think is going to win? Craig Rafe Rovers or Ross County?
Speaker 1:In my best Scottish. I have no idea, but what I will say is I love the fact that you have playoffs. I didn't know this. Excuse my ignorance until Jamie explained this to me, but I think bring it into the prem. I'd love to see Sheffield United against Leeds at Wembley. What a game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. It is a good. It's the the relegation element to. It is interesting. Having that bottom, second bottom team from the top flight being involved as well certainly adds to it. From my perspective, I think Wraith Rovers would be a tremendous addition to the Premiership, somebody a bit different. And I think, mike, I'm right in saying they haven't been in since the 90s. 97 was the last season they went up 97. When they were playing the likes of AC Milan in Europe, 97. When they were playing the likes of AC Milan in Europe. You need to remember that, obviously a top, top side once upon a time. Livingston were relegated and finally, in SPFL news, neil Lennon has just taken over at Rapid Bucharest. So everybody will be watching with interest to see what batshit crazy stuff he gets up to there of his time.
Speaker 3:And Cyprus Is there anything to go by? In the other playoffs, inverness fell 5-3 on aggregate to Hamilton. So Hamilton are back in the championship and Inverness in the third tier for the first time in 25 years. Spartans were unlucky and ultimately lost 4-3 on aggregate to Dumbarton, who were promoted after two seasons. In the bottom tier and at the very bottom of League 2, stranra came through 5-3 aggregate winners against East Kilbride, who remain the only Lowland League champions, not to win promotion. Is that second bite of the cherry for East Kilbride, mike?
Speaker 2:I think the first one was against Montrose, perhaps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the very first season it was introduced, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they had the chances at the weekend to do it and get fucked up again.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, east Kilbride spend another season in the Lowland League in Stranraa, who must be the most fucking awkward away day for every single other team in Scotland, because it's in the arse end of absolutely nowhere remain in the arse end of absolutely nowhere remain in the league. So I'm sure many League 2 fans are slightly frustrated at the significantly more difficult away trip that they'll have to Stranraer rather than they would have had to East Kilbride. And that'll do for Scotland, unless Sheila, mike Craig, I assume you've got nothing to say, but Sheila and Mike have you got anything to add?
Speaker 4:I wasn't sure if Craig was aware that Duncan Ferguson is the manager at Inverness.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, Craig, are you aware that big Duncan Ferguson?
Speaker 4:was manager Famous vegan Duncan Ferguson.
Speaker 1:Hold that thought for about five minutes' time.
Speaker 3:Oh, fantastic, yeah, manager of Cali. So, as we always do when we get a new guest on the show although new guests have been fewer and farther between in recent months so it's we're up to episode 120 now. We're delighted to have had Craig on for the last couple of hours been tremendous having a chat, but we always have to do the ultimate five a side team with any of our new guests. Now I did nearly forget and I had to give Craig a prompt half an hour ago that I was going to thrust this upon him. So you've had lots of preparation, craig, and there's been no excuses whatsoever.
Speaker 3:For anybody that maybe hasn't listened to the earlier episodes where we've done the ultimate five-a-side, before, a reminder that we do just ask for a goalkeeper and then the four outfielders and then a manager, the formation is entirely up to the guests. There are no rules, but many of our guests sort of self-impose rules upon themselves, whether it's players from their particular team, players they've seen live or just players that they find interesting or exciting. So, really looking forward to hearing what Craig has managed to conjure up. Um, during that time he was sitting quietly while we, uh, traversed scotland. So, craig, first questions, uh, first have you set yourself any, any rules well, I didn't know the goalkeeper rule, so that's.
Speaker 1:I'm off to a good start with that one you don't have a goalkeeper I was going to play with, like you know, the classic roaming keeper oh, you do you mate, sure no rules. So that's, that's my rule. My rules are I've stuck with the Newcastle team. I think it's only fair and I've gone for just the best possible imaginable Newcastle team from former players fantastic well possible imaginable Newcastle team from former players?
Speaker 3:Fantastic Well. Have you done a formation then, seeing as you've got Roland Keeper, or is it literally just five blokes?
Speaker 1:So I've got a 3-2. I've got three defenders, but there is one of those defenders who's going to play central and play as a sweeper keeper as well, and that'll be obvious why when we get to it Fantastic.
Speaker 3:Okay, well up to you who you want to start with, but tell us who the first player is, why you picked them, maybe a few interesting things about them?
Speaker 1:Well, I think the first player we'll go with is the keeper. Given the build-up, stephen Taylor is going to be my goalkeeper. Recent manager of Gulf United, back-to-back promotions for them, he's now taken over a random, I think, dubai team which doesn't have a Wikipedia page, so that's reassuring. I only know that because there was a very funny video of a big build-up getting out of a fancy car introduction to a former Premier League legend, as he was called in that video. Um, and out steps steven taylor. Of all people. Uh, completely under the radar. He was even in management now. Uh, newcastle boy, uh, although I realized he was born in greenwich but he went to school in the northeast and he was at school with peter ram, who almost made the cut for this five-a-side team, but not quite. Stephen Taylor is in goal because you'll remember his handball on the line which he was sent off for and tried to claim it hit his chest when it was a blatant palm out. So he's the keeper in net.
Speaker 3:Super keeper fantastic 215 league games for Newcastle between 2003 and 16, 13 league goals in that time as well. He's a far more of a journeyman than I ever gave him credit for. I thought he was a one club man. He is anything but a one club man. He then went on. Well, he had a brief loan spell at Wickham at the start of his career before transferring to Portland Timbers from Newcastle, then came back to England to play for Ipswich Peterborough United, then he went down under to play for Wellington Phoenix before moving on to Odisha. Who I have? Oh, they're in India. And then he went back to Wellington Phoenix as well and, as you've said, then became he only retired two seasons ago. Fucking hell seems like a player from a different era and then he's manager of Golf United and now he's manager of Al Kabila.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you went for it. I was going to avoid the pronunciation. But interesting as well. Stephen Taylor played 16, 17, 20 and 21 England but never quite made the cut for the first team, which is One England B cap. He was renowned for being absolute dog shit, so that's not really that surprising.
Speaker 3:Fantastic. So Stephen Taylor, presumably a bit of cult hero status and obviously that fantastic getting hit by a sniper on the line incident where he pretends it hits his chest. That was superb. So who's up next, craig?
Speaker 1:Well, it wouldn't be this podcast without a shout out to Paul Dummett.
Speaker 1:So he is absolutely in the team. He's not just a cult hero on this podcast, he's a cult hero in the castle as well. Geordie Boy. He's been in that squad for I think, a decade now somehow, and anecdotally, there was two lads who used to sit behind me where I used to sit in St Gilles Park, and one of them said one day he must pinch himself every fucking day the fact that he is a Premier League footballer. And I thought that was just brilliant. He made a lot of caps. Actually, he was also in the championship team. So absolutely Castle legend and, again, probably one that will stick around somehow and get in the coaching. Yeah, is he?
Speaker 3:has he got a contract for next year?
Speaker 1:No, I think. I think it was last season that he got an extra year.
Speaker 3:I remember him getting an extra year last season because we were on the podcast talking about it, like how the fuck has Paul Dummett pulled out a contract extension? He did make four Premier League appearances this year. Even that's remarkable. How's he getting anywhere near the team?
Speaker 1:and he also was part of the FA Cup, must have been FA Cup, must have been an FA Cup team. That went to half-pair in that day. So it says a lot about man United really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely 258 career appearances, 212 of them for Newcastle. He did have a brief loan spell at St Mirren, as we've mentioned on this podcast a number of times as well, and he scored a total of four goals. Sorry, six career goals, but four for Newcastle. He managed to get two and 36 for St Mirren. They completely got the best year out of him in terms of goal scoring efforts. But Sheila Mike before we quickly move on absolutely delighted to have Paul Dummett in a five-a-sides team on this podcast.
Speaker 3:Aye absolutely Brilliant. Thanks for coming in this year, no I mean like everybody.
Speaker 4:Every time he pulls on a black and white jersey, it should be to steal his wages out of the fucking cash machine. He's absolutely been stealing a wage from the Saudis as well. That's mental. That's absolutely mental. The shrewdest negotiator in the North East is Paul Dummett, who knew.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Definitely get him in the scouting team or something. He's also got five Wales caps. What was going on in those Wales squads that they were having to call Paul Dummett? I remember as well when the Saudis first came in, mike, you'd found that report that it said that they had identified 42 potential left-backs when they were scouting. How did the Saudis have a list of 42 potential left-backs but Paul Dummett, who plays sometimes at left-back, managed to keep his job. They've gone through all 42 and gone.
Speaker 3:Not as good as Paul Dummett, not as good as Paul Dummett.
Speaker 2:I think what we're liking the first teams as well is a shithousing element to it. And yeah, paul Dummett, shithousing a rage after Saudis for that long is definitely tremendous yeah, that should earn him a place.
Speaker 3:Absolutely okay, your third defender.
Speaker 1:Craig, I am going to stick on Paul Dermott. I've just remembered something that he did this season. You might remember. We were beating man City and he gave away a last minute penalty which may well have won man City the league. So Paul Dermott's impact unmatched. Yeah, he's absolutely Next player. In honour of all of your heritage, I've gone with the best Scottish player to play for Newcastle, which, of course, was Grant Hanley. I'd sent it back.
Speaker 3:Wow, jesus, I genuinely thought, craig, you might not have heard this, but I genuinely thought Aaron Dugan's Vives team would be the worst Vives team we ever had on this podcast, because it was made up of Plymouth and Cowdenbeath players that basically none of us had ever heard of. Somehow Plymouth and Cowdenbeath players that basically none of us had ever heard of. Somehow Craig, who's got an Oil State-owned Premier League giant to pick from, is giving him a run for his money. Why the choice of Grant Hanley, craig?
Speaker 1:He's an absolute unit. He's Scottish heart Did well in the Championship for us and, more than anything, it's just funny to put them in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I tell you what it's a solid. It's a scary back three. If you were going along to the local goals, or Vida as it was, in Dunfermline for a game of fives on a Friday night and you were met with Paul Dummett, stephen Taylor and Grant Hanley, you'd probably not fancy yourself to get many goals. Maybe some of the other Fives teams with the likes of Ronaldinho and Zidane and R9 in them might be thinking differently. But yeah, very much a strong back three. And then to your two creative attacking players.
Speaker 1:Well exactly, We've gone with a sturdy back three. We're not conceding with those three. We've then got two, and I'm going to give them both at the same time. Obviously, it's the brothers. Shola and Sami Ami will be getting.
Speaker 3:I was sitting here thinking well, I know one of them's, Alan Shearer, so I wonder who else he's picked.
Speaker 1:Shearer doesn't get a look in. You've got Sami with his pace, skill, skill, unpredictability as well, and then Shola, obviously just the bagsman to end all bagsmen.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. To be fair, shola Amiobi strikes me as definitely one of those players that could have been sensational at five-a-side like you always get those boys that you'd be useless if you put them in a Saturday amateur team, but inside a cage at five-a-side they're a different animal and something tells me Shula Ami will be one of them, and you need to pick a manager and, seeing as you've gone along the banter era in terms of this Newcastle team, maybe there is room for Alan Shearer in the dugout, or have you gone for someone else?
Speaker 1:Well, we've seen Alan Shearer's managerial credentials live in play when we got relegated, so he does not make the cut in that regard either. He can be a five-a-side club ambassador manager. We've gone. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a tag team. It's little and large and it's big dunk and matt ritchie fair enough.
Speaker 4:Uh, you might need to qualify to drive the coach there as well. Yeah, exactly. Well, it was a lorry.
Speaker 3:It was a lorry, but yeah, you get. I'm sure you can fit an entire five steam in the back of a lorry at least still same licence needed to drive a hitchhiker.
Speaker 4:Use that bus, is it not? Is it, is it? I don't know surely not?
Speaker 1:yeah, it is. It is because Eddie Howell was making a joke saying Matt Ritchie's going to be driving the team bus.
Speaker 3:Oh right, well, there you go. Sorry, sheila, I interrupted for no reason. Matt Ritchie on the coach. Yeah, why Big Duncan and Matt Ritchie?
Speaker 1:Big Duncan's iconic, isn't he? And I didn't actually know he was current manager, so he's obviously in a job, so he's not going to be turned up for fives very often, but I just think he's got the aggression and the mentality. And then Matt Ritchie's, like his little dog he can send in just to slap people on the head and rile them up.
Speaker 3:I had no idea Matt Ritchie had such cult status at Newcastle.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's a hero. He signed from I think it was Bournemouth right In the Championship. He was a good sign at that time. Actually, to be fair, he's been a pretty good player for us the last few years. A bit of a write-off. He's clearly over the hill, but again, he's one of these players who's been kept around for his motivation techniques. There's so many funny videos of him just slapping players on the pitch and just screaming at folk and just generally being a little shit. So, yeah, he's definitely got that cult status.
Speaker 3:And that also fits Fives, because there's always a lunar ticket at the side of the cage in a Fives game as well, screaming at folk thinking it's a Champions League final. Was it this year that Matt Ritchie got that very late goal and everybody went absolutely bonkers for him? It was like his first goal in four years or something Absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 1:And he ran over to the corner flag and sort of feigned to kick the flag because there was a game where he did that and it launched into the crowd and hit someone in the face.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow, I definitely see him as a player manager.
Speaker 1:I've got a feeling if Sammy wasn't pulling his weight, he'd be getting hooked and Richie would be coming on himself.
Speaker 3:Well, usually we say that you would be the sixth man and I ask the question of Richie would be coming on himself. Well, usually we say that you would be the sixth man and I ask the question of who you would be coming on for first it's got to be done.
Speaker 1:He's not fit enough to play the full, the only one that's a current professional footballer is the one that's running out of breath first.
Speaker 3:Fantastic.
Speaker 1:I think Shammy Amiobi is still playing these days.
Speaker 3:Fair enough, fantastic. That's a tremendous five team. That's exactly what we like to hear cult status, a bit of shithousery, bit of banter in there. Big dunk at the side of the pitch and, to be fair with Inverness, cali and League 1, league 1's a primarily part-time league anyway, so Big Dunk will probably have loads of time on his hands to come down the fives pitch on a Wednesday night and whip these boys into shape. But, craig, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. It's been a bumper episode for us, but there was obviously a hell of a lot to get through. So thank you very much for coming on. Thank you very much for adding so much to that Newcastle segment as well. It's always great to hear from actual fans of these teams that we discuss every week, and they often shine a different perspective on things, and often with increased positivity as well, which is exactly what you did, sheila.
Speaker 3:Mike, it's the end of our third season in the Premier League. It's been another absolute pleasure. We've got a couple more episodes to go. Next week, we'll be doing the Cup Finals and the awards, and the week after that we'll be doing the Champions League final and the end of season quiz. Craig, we're hoping to have you back on for the end of season quiz, so that'll be tremendous as well. Get revising, maybe have a look back to the previous season's end of season quizzes for some clues on how the rounds might go and if any of those questions might resurface as well, where I think I've thought of a really clever question, and then when I ask it I realize I'd asked it last year as well. But no, it's been a pleasure, boys, and I'll speak to you again next week.