Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is a modern paganism & witchcraft podcast exploring spiritual practice, community, and clergy experience weekly. Each episode invites listeners into candid, grounded conversations about what it really means to live, practice, and serve within today’s diverse pagan paths. Whether you’re a long‑time practitioner or someone newly curious about earth‑based spirituality, the show offers a welcoming space to learn, question, and grow.
Hosted by experienced pagan clergy, Pagan Coffee Talk blends humor, honesty, and hands‑on wisdom to demystify the realities of practice. The podcast dives into topics such as ritual structure, magical ethics, coven dynamics, and the lived experience of serving a community—always with a focus on accessibility and authenticity. You’ll also hear discussions on the challenges of modern pagan leadership, the evolution of contemporary witchcraft traditions, and how practitioners can build sustainable spiritual habits in everyday life.
Listeners searching for “practical pagan spirituality for beginners” or “real‑world witchcraft guidance from clergy” will find the show especially valuable. Episodes often highlight the difference between pop‑culture witchcraft and grounded, lineage‑informed practice, helping listeners navigate misinformation while strengthening their own spiritual foundations. The hosts also explore seasonal observances, ancestor work, devotional practice, and the importance of community support within pagan traditions.
Pagan Coffee Talk isn’t just a podcast—it’s an ongoing conversation shaped by real questions from real practitioners. By sharing personal stories, hard‑earned lessons, and thoughtful commentary, the hosts aim to foster a sense of connection and clarity for anyone walking a pagan path. Whether you’re brewing your morning coffee or settling in for evening reflection, this podcast offers insight, companionship, and a deeper understanding of modern pagan life.
A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Exploring Fear and Respect in Our Relationship with the Divine
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Have you ever wondered if fear should play a role in our relationship with the divine? Pagan Coffee Talk takes on this provocative question, drawing parallels between our interactions with deities and the dynamics between children and parents. By exploring the balance between fear, respect, and reverence, we highlight the importance of understanding the immense power that deities hold. With humor and wisdom, we share the delightful poem "Butt Prints in the Sand," which reminds us of the importance of personal growth and responsibility on our spiritual journeys.
Join us as we journey through the evolution of religious beliefs and their alignment with societal changes, suggesting that gods are mere reflections of ourselves. From ancient pagan practices to modern interpretations, we examine the fluctuating role of fear in faith. Is it a tool for enforcing moral commandments, or is it shifting towards a more respectful reverence? By unpacking the nature of fear and phobias, we invite you to reflect on how these dynamics shape your own understanding and faith. Enjoy an engaging discussion that promises not only insights but also a few laughs along the way.
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, lady Abba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 4Okay. So yeah, this is a fun one. Should we fear God or God's?
Speaker 1Well, I can understand interpretation. When you're talking about a being that can create everything and created you.
Speaker 4There's a little intimidation there, but as far as fear, I don't Respect Respecting something, being cautious of it, yeah right, is different than fear. But also, let's look at it from a parental standpoint because, let's be honest, right, most of humanity, in order to understand our gods, we liken the relationship with deity to the relationship children have with their parents.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 4So another way to look at this question is should children fear their parents? Yes and no, exactly, but there, yes and no, there is a healthy amount of fear. Yes and no, there is a healthy amount of fear. Now, I think it's funny because, growing up right as kids do we, I mean, ok, there's always the exception. Some people have really horrific home lives. Some people are terrible parents and should not be. We all know this right. But let's just, for the sake of this discussion, let's look at the average, the average kid living in an average household with loving parents right as a young child, you do have a certain amount of fear towards your parents.
Speaker 4Do you honestly believe they're going to harm you, kill you? No, and we know that, but still we bend. We bend the knee, we bend to their will. We go. I shouldn't do that because dad's going to be mad. As adults we can reason this and we can go. What are you going to do? Right? And we can buck back and challenge it. But as kids we don't Right In the face of deity, are we not children?
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 4Right. So to look at deity and challenge what are you going to do? That's a bad idea. That would be a really, really unwise decision. Okay, Because while they may not strike you dead, they can definitely make your life difficult.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's a poem that goes around but prints in the sand.
Speaker 4But prints in the sand. But prints in the sand. What the hell you? Oh, come on, what is this? Is this like footprints in the sand? Oh, boy, he's, he's googling, oh no, but prints in the sand. There it, my goodness. What in the world? We are opening up a? Oh, this is going to be good, all right, let's get here, we go. So it's a poem. It is a poem. It is a poem.
Speaker 4One night I had a wondrous dream, one set of footprints. There was seen the footprints of my precious Lord, but mine were not along the shore. But then some strange prints appeared and I asked the Lord, what have we here? Somber tones for miles. I carried you alone. I challenged you to walk in faith, but you refused and made me wait. You disobeyed, you would not grow the walk of faith, you would not know. So I tired, I got fed up and there I dropped you on your butt. Because in life there comes a time when one must fight and one must climb, when one must rise and take a stand or leave their butt prints in the sand. That is amazing. I have never heard of this. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1That's incredible butt prints in the sand.
Speaker 4Ladies and gentlemen, okay, so wowie, wow, so yes now you want to do a ritual because we are resistant. I may I may just I may, just how have we not brought that into ritual before?
Speaker 4um, that's great this is the relationship pagans have with their gods sometimes I think, but again I think everyone has this relation, okay, so hold on. So let's back up right. So we go with this parent and child analogy Right, because it's the best we can do, even as grown adult men and women we are still faced with. This is so much bigger than us, yes, so much more magnificent than we are. It's the closest thing we've got is to go okay, parent kid. So there are loads of religions that want their people to fear God. Yes, why?
Speaker 1They want them to obey, yeah, they want them to follow certain doctrines, and philosophies, obedience, submission, control.
Speaker 4We don't do that. No, now again, I do think there is a healthy fear, because when there is not, Ooh.
Speaker 1People make bad mistakes.
Speaker 4Or you will be blindsided.
Speaker 1Yes. But, Walking into a dangerous situation and not being afraid and keeping your attention around you is a dangerous thing.
Speaker 4Well, the elements. Yeah, the elements are a great example here. Do I fear a glass of water? No, no. Do I fear a tsunami?
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 4Right. Do I fear a candle flame? No, no. Do I fear a wildfire? Yes, right, that's the idea. It's. There are small contained doses it's a weird way to put it take your, take your daily dose of deity. They're small contained doses of deity of creation that are manageable. That are, yeah, they are not to be feared, but they are to be respected.
Speaker 1Yes, yes and so does one need to fear to show respect that's a really good point.
Speaker 4I don't know, I mean, if I go back to the candle right, a candle by itself bring on a table. I'm not afraid of that candle, but do I have enough sense of understanding and respect for that flame that I'm not going to leave it unattended?
Speaker 1or you're not going to sit there and play with it right because it could burn my house down.
Speaker 4Yes, but if I'm responsible with it right and I'm respectful of it that I can enjoy it.
Speaker 1The fear of your house burning down is that's what gets you up to go. Let me check on that candle. I haven't seen it in a few.
Speaker 4But otherwise we can just enjoy it, yeah, and we can have a lovely relationship. That's, that's how I see it. We have to be cautious. I mean people, we're, we are something we are. We are truly something. I mean, mean I still look at you know, there's volcanoes erupting all over the planet and there's towns at the bottoms of these volcanoes and people going. Oh, my goodness, the evacuations and the people, and I'm like why? Why are you living at the base of a volcano? Who? Who thought this was a good idea? Who was like you know where we should build? Why would you do this? You are tempting fate. Well, it's the same.
Speaker 1well, it's the same people that build their houses on the beach, that build their houses by rivers, that flood yeah, it's just it's.
Speaker 4That, to me, is hubris. That, to me, is the purest form of hubris and ego. It won't happen to me, fuck you. Yes, it will, because you just tempted them and they don't care. So that's where I think it's interesting. Right the fear. Should we fear retribution? Should we fear punishment?
Speaker 1Is that what we really fear? Do we fear the gods, or do we fear the punishment or the retribution of something?
Speaker 4I think that depends on the person. I think that depends on how you were raised. There are loads of religions that lead you to believe that that's what you're fearing. You're fearing punishment, retribution, divine justice for your actions, for things you do, don't do, thoughts that you have even. But I don't know, I don't believe that. I don't believe at all that that's what that fear should be or is. I do not fear my gods that way. But I understand that if I take careless action that puts myself too close to danger, to, yes, that it could happen. But am I going to blame them? No, I did that and I mean it's.
Speaker 4It's such an interesting dynamic, right, because we again, people, are evolving, society is evolving, so much is happening with modern man. We are moving away from this idea that we need these beings that are greater than us to control us, to tell us what to do, how to do it, to keep us in check, and the more that happens, the more, the more obviously organized religion falls away. But why can't we modify? I mean, look, even the christians. I mean, there's old testament and there's new testament, and boy oh boy, old testament, he is not to be messed with.
Speaker 1There's a big difference between the two old testament. God, oh, that is some shit I mean we're talking punishment because you didn't say blast you after somebody sneezed terrifying, terrifying.
Speaker 4I cannot think of a scarier book than the old testament and new testament. You go. Is this the same dude?
Exploring Fear in Faith and Culture
Speaker 1you've got a little light here, right it huge difference.
Speaker 4Why?
Speaker 1because, again, as things progressed, they had to pivot as the society developed and those what orders of social things were filled, these things become more and more of a higher priority for us, of course.
Speaker 4I mean we look at the ten commandments and I mean the ten commandments to me are are I don't want to say laughable, but I guess in a little bit of a way, sure, because you, you think about them and you go.
Speaker 1Really we had to tell people this you had to tell people to honor your mother and father we had to enforce this.
Speaker 4We had to enforce thou shalt not kill. Yes, what that? That's an incredible well again, again.
Speaker 1Just the whole concept of honoring your parents.
Speaker 4Look at kids nowadays and how a lot of them started oh don't get me started, so again when you't get me started.
Speaker 1So again, when you're sitting there going. This is something we had to teach.
Speaker 4We still have to teach that one? Unfortunately we do. But there's a lot of components of what the older gods were set up for the greeks it was the same thing. There was a lot of fear of the wrath of various gods for various actions or various ideas. Because, yeah, we, it was about keeping people in line. Now, I mean, that's what's interesting. Things have changed so much, they have evolved so much, but do the gods not evolve with us?
Speaker 1You would think you know over time they should, because again we're back to the argument that we've always given, that the gods are nothing more than a reflection of ourselves.
Speaker 4And if we evolve, they evolve Exactly Also. They kind of saw it coming, so they're just waiting for us to catch up yeah so it's really not even that they're evolving, it's that our understanding of them evolves, keeps on expanding right.
Speaker 4So as that takes place, you know, where does fear play a part? Now, every now and then, right, I meet somebody who's very, very optimistic in their view of faith. Yeah, blindly so, and there's just a little too much la, la, la, la, la, la, la Right, everything is great, everything is love, everything is sunshine, everything is rainbows and happiness, and I'm like pops and unicorns and oh boy, that person is potentially going to be devastated, yes, at some point in their life, because something will happen that will seem like a quote unquote act of god and it will destroy their spirit.
Speaker 1Because they were unrealistic, right about the relationship and at no point are they going to sit there and look at butt prints in the sand and go oh, I see where I failed in this relationship.
Speaker 4Yeah, but I do find you know this idea of fear. I think that a lot of the ancient pagan beliefs, of course, revolve around the idea that we walk with the gods and among the gods right so the idea of bowing down to them, being subservient to them is a little yeah, it's something that most kagan traditions we.
Speaker 4It's a very ick thing to it is, it is I do even suggest yeah, I think there are many things about the muslim faith that I find interesting and that I find to be great there are some things about it I find kneeling is not one multiple times a day, not one of them praying on your face?
Speaker 4no, no I mean, I'm not gonna not if that's what the it's just, there is something and yes, we're dancing around some other things here yeah, but I can't never do that I feel like one of our responsibilities as people of faith is to rise up to the gods, yes, not to bow beneath them. And we're not talking about standing up and bucking, we're talking walking with yes, to strive to operate at that level, to strive to understand the best that we can right yes yeah, it is. It is to become more godlike in our intentions, our actions, our thoughts, our words.
Speaker 4It is a bit buddhist yes it is a bit buddhist, right, it has a lot of asian philosophy and a lot of asian, you know. But I mean good grief if we want to talk about asian tradition, the hindus. The hindus have some scary gods oh, scary, scary gods.
Speaker 1All right, we don't want to talk about that one that can destroy everything.
Speaker 4Oh my gosh, they've got like seriously, like they have some major destructive forces. But even still, there is a different way that that fear is viewed. It can be a healthy thing. So it's an interesting relationship to explore. I think people tend to have strange relationships with fear. Right we always to conquer your fears, face your fears.
Speaker 1You know why weren't they there for a reason?
Speaker 4yeah, conquer, conquer. I don't know about conquer. Conquering a fear means what you no longer fear it. Yeah, you no longer respect it, you no longer pause in the face of it now.
Speaker 1now, since we're talking about fear and all this, but what about these people and again, I understand, these are psychological problem who have a fear of all right, regardless of what it is? Do you think there's a way for them to overcome? Because this is just fear gone out of control, and I realize this. This is more of a chemical imbalance in the brain than anything else Not necessarily, not necessarily Some things are very simple.
Speaker 4Look how many people are afraid of needles. True, forget a phobia. Right, phobias are where it's extreme and sure, there I agree with you. But take it down to a very, very basic level. There are loads of people who fear needles, clowns, um, that's always. That always kind of cracks me up. But I think at the end of the day, when we look at at some of those things spiders, you know is it a true phobia or is it just a keen dislike?
Speaker 1or is it just being slightly upset that something's a little different from you? Because I know some people who have phobias over people, who are impetise they it, just it freaks them out yeah, that's a thing too.
Speaker 4there's a lot. There's look, there's a lot of different. People are afraid to fly, people are afraid, but at the end of the day, I think that is a lot of what it is. They are afraid of the unknown. They are afraid of. Some fears are about trust. They don't have trust or a faith in the thing Like needles. Most people that I know that are afraid of needles. It's not the needle, they're afraid of it. The pain it's not even the pain, it's the blood, it's the, it's the drawing of it's the idea that this thing is taking from me in an unnatural way, or a perceived unnatural way I can say that I think I've worked in hospitals for too long.
Speaker 4Yeah for sure I don't get the needle like I laugh. I mean, I'm, I'm, you know 40 covered in tattoos. Are you afraid of needles? What huh? Huh, yeah, really I pull up my sleeve. I'm like, seriously, you're asking me this question I would look.
Speaker 1I go in there and look, I'll say, can you just do both arms to get it over faster?
Speaker 4just hook me up to the caffeine iv and leave me alone. Uh, should we ever be afraid inside of ritual space?
Speaker 1again, healthy respect. I'm not sure about fear I would say no you. You should not be fearful of at least your own health and well-being.
Speaker 4Yeah, no that shouldn't be a thing. But you know, I I think about being a kid and I think about you know some of again the guilt and the doctrines and the things from other faiths and you go there are.
Speaker 1There are people who walk into church afraid, yes, and I'm like that sucks and especially when I think about being a kid and all the stuff, when you're a kid that you were afraid of and now you look at it why was I ever scared of the?
Speaker 4dark and never, because we're taught that. That's what's funny. We're taught that. That's what's funny. We're taught that there are so many things that culturally different cultures fear. But it's learned. It's taught. If no one had ever put the idea in someone's head to be afraid of the dark or of the boogeyman or of you know, would anybody be afraid of the dark? Probably not.
Speaker 1I don't know. I think being scared of the dark might be a little bit biological maybe I see what you're saying.
Speaker 4If you go back? Yeah, if you go back far enough.
Speaker 1Yeah, you're not going to go out in the dark with wild animals, so there might be a little bit left over there yes, but are you going to be afraid of the dark in your own home?
Speaker 4no, no but kids are yes, but again it's because they've been taught that the boogeyman's under the bed or in the closet, and so now is this done by leaving the nightlight on in the baby's room no, because it has nothing to do with you. I I really think a lot of it is pop culture. It's it's what kids are exposed to, what they're taught. Imagination is one of the most powerful forces we have right.
Speaker 4Our mind's ability to imagine, to conjure to. Yeah. And that's the problem it gets used against us all the time. If we could harness it for possibility instead of fear, imagine what we would achieve. One of my favorite quotes is imagine what you could do if you were not afraid.
Speaker 1And with that said, I think we get coffee.
Speaker 2Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
Speaker 3We travel down this trodden path the maze of stone and mire and Reddit me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.