101. Understanding Quiet Leadership with Clare Emma Wild

Can quiet strength make someone a great leader?

In this episode, Clare Emma Wild uncovers the hidden world of leading quietly. Let's dig in together as we talk about leading with depth, kindness, and making a real difference.

Find out how your own quiet strength can be a game-changer in how you lead others

0:00 - Intro
2:23 - Clare's journey working with Quiet Leaders
8:51 - Why Quiet leaders are the best leaders?
11:59 - How to use sensitivity in leadership
21:31 - How do we know that imposter syndrome is holding us back
25:09 - How can we catch ourselves with the imposter?
29:50 - What do you mean by people pleasing?
34:27 - Free resource:  The not people-pleasing workbook
35:33 - What is sensitive success to you?
40:19 - Outro

Know more about Clare's work at:
https://clareemmawild.com

Check out Clare's Freebie to stop people-pleasing in 5 simple steps:
https://clareemmawild.com/resources

Connect  on her social media account:
Facebook: Clare Emma Wild

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Transcript

Emma: 0:00

We can work wonderfully with. louder, more extroverted, less sensitive leaders, because we can take all of this and listen, you know, people that think and process verbally, they'll share ideas before they're fully formed. We like to have them fully formed before we do it. And we can take all of that and listen to it and internalize it. Okay. So given this and that and that, and then come up with a really amazing solution. So I think it's about us all working together, but we just don't tend to, you know, I think it Stepping forward is much more of a challenge for us.

Frida: 0:36

Welcome to the Sensitive Success Podcast, where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities that comes with being a sensitive changemaker in today's world. I'm your host, Frida Karvo, and I have spent the last decade recreating my life. I moved from Sweden to New Zealand and now live in the beautiful bush with my husband and two kids, homeschooling and creating a life and business that works for me with the help of my sensitivity. And support others to do the same. I'm excited to share conversations with experts, thought leaders, and fellow sensitive people who also see the world through the lens of sensitivity. Thank you so much for being here, because it means that you're creating sensitive success too. Which is precisely what the world needs. Let's get started. In this episode, we will talk to Claire Emma Weil. She's a coach for quiet leaders, helping them to stop people pleasing and overcoming their imposter syndrome so that they can take action and enjoy the success they deserve. As well as leading senior teams and winning awards. She's bounced back from two periods of burnout, meaning she understands the importance of not trying to lead as others do, but using your strengths and supporting yourself. And the blend of mindset coaching with a somatic approach tailored for the introverted, sensitive, and empathic is why her coaching is powerful for quieted people. I love that. Welcome Claire. Hi Frida,

Emma: 2:05

thanks so much for having me on the

Frida: 2:06

episode. I'm so excited to have you here and to talk about this such an important topic and so close to my heart as well. But start by telling us a bit more about your journey and how you come to work with Quiet

Emma: 2:19

Leaders. Yeah, thanks, Frida. Um, so, I guess, along, like a lot of highly sensitives, I, I spent, I spent a lot of my time trying not to be, thinking there's something wrong with me, like, there's really something wrong with me, and And I spent a long time, probably nearly 40 years, trying not to be sensitive. So actually, you know, I don't want to feel, I don't want to be sensitive where I grew. The environment I grew up in was not a good place to be sensitive. It was viewed as a weakness. Um, so it was something to. You know, it's what you do, isn't it? To fit in, I needed to be something different. So I thought there was something wrong with me. And, but there were pointers all the way through, you know, my childhood, teens, twenties, thirties, even that, that I was, was, yeah, I was different, but I didn't celebrate that. And so I thought, well, I qualified as a vet, a veterinary surgeon. I went through college. Qualified as a veterinary surgeon. I thought, okay, once I do that, then I'll be fine. You know, I'll be fixed and I'll be tough and, and I'll play rugby and that's what I did. And, uh, all these things to prove I'm not, I'm not sensitive. I didn't become a vet just to prove I'm not sensitive. But, um, but that I found tough, you know, because not only was I picking up on people's feelings and distress, but also the animals as well, which was you. really, um, you know, you look, I look back with hindsight, knowing now, I think, God, no wonder that was tough. You know, euthanizing animals, I found really tough. I was able to logically think, you know, I'm putting them out of their misery, you know, they're in distress and I felt the distress and ending that was, was, um, obviously logically the thing to do the only way forward, but. But my goodness, that kind of thing. And then the people's distress is what I found really tough. And it was like, right, I just need to toughen up, get a thicker skin. But for various reasons, then I left veterinary practice, um, with dogs and cats and went into government as a, as a government vet and became an epidemiologist and kind of fell into leadership. I don't know how that happened. Anyway, it kind of, the story of, uh, of my life from school, really, is sort of, I don't know how that happened, but I seem to be in a leadership position again. So again, and it came up, and I think more so in leadership and a government, a corporate area. the whole feeling there's something wrong with me because I think as a vet and school and college and things, and maybe others can relate to this, you think there's, there's like a black and white almost, there's a right and it's wrong. You diagnose something correctly and you don't diagnose correctly. You get an A, B, a C, a D, you fail. You know, there's, there's that, but in leadership, dealing with people, there's a lot of gray, there's a load of gray in there. And, and, you know, that became. Um, I think quite tricky, you know, all those voices about, you know, I should be different. Why aren't I leading like everyone else? Why do I not find this easy? And you get all the feedback, you know, you're great, but you need to be more confident. You need to grow a thicker skin. You need to do this. Oh God. Okay. So I tried and tried to be better leaders. And of course, as you've mentioned, I've burnt out twice. The first time I just thought it didn't help. Because I just thought, okay, um, I just need to be better. So I'll go back and be better. That's what I need to do. But thank goodness. I did a really amazing leadership course and found out I was, we did a Myers Briggs and I found out. That I'm an introvert? Oh, okay. Well, that makes a bit of sense, but I still wasn't that convinced that was very helpful. So I'm an INFJ, Myers Briggs, and who can be more empathic and sensitive, but still I wasn't convinced this was a great thing. So I tried to not be sensitive and grow this thicker skin and do assertiveness training and more leadership training and things like that. And it wasn't until a friend, a wonderful friend, who's a really successful artist and really tough, you know, person a fell runner. She's, she's just amazing. Um, so that's kind of backcountry running, amazing endurance athlete. We were out running together and she said, I think you're highly sensitive. Now, coming from anybody else, that would have been a bit, because of my associations with sensitive, I thought, I don't think so. I think I've tried to not be sensitive all my life, but she's amazing. You know, I just thought you were amazing. You know, you're absolutely amazing. And she said, I'm sensitive. So I thought, well, if you're sensitive and you're amazing. Okay. And then it started my, on my journey looking, you know, into Lorna Aron's work and then consequently through my coach training, finding out I'm actually really empathic as well. And that, It's been a journey of a number of years now and You know, my whole experience through leadership has been, well, you know, it's actually different and quite difficult for quiet leaders, so more sensitive leaders, be that introvert or extrovert, but I tend to work more with introverts, although I've worked with extrovert sensitive, who are amazing too. Empathic, it's quite difficult. And. Because we feel so different, but quiet leaders is exactly what we need in the world. So, how do I, or can I, support people in the way that I didn't get it? To understand that it's okay to be sensitive. There are amazing strengths in being sensitive. And it's about supporting yourself to bring those out and lead in a way. That's authentic to you, rather than trying and trying and trying, like I did, to lead differently. Um, and then burning out because you're trying to be who you're not. So yeah, so that's how I came to, to really help people who, who equally don't know that they don't know they're sensitive. Maybe they have thought they're different. They don't know they're sensitive and then they certainly don't know what to do about it. Um, other than try and do what everyone else

Frida: 8:22

is doing. Yeah, I love that. Well, I recognize that in me as well, like the journey of trying to toughen up and, and do, do all the things that you should do and try to be, be in a certain way to like the leader role position. You have to be in a certain way to be a leader, right? But no, you don't actually. So you talk about the quiet leaders being the best leaders.

Emma: 8:50

Why is that? Obviously, but don't tell anyone else. I think because there are so many strengths. Of quiet leaders, which we don't naturally or don't immediately translate into leadership. But I think, you know, because we're empathic, that emotional intelligence, there's the whole piece around emotional intelligence, actually being more of a measure of success than actual intelligence. We listen really well. We think and process very deeply. We'll come up with solutions that are so well thought through. We are highly intuitive. conscientious. And one of the things that, that also is incredible is Now we call this creative or seeing patterns, but it is about bringing things together and bringing disparate ideas. And they may not even even be from today. They may be from two weeks ago or a month ago, or thinking about the future and bringing all this together and coming up with a solution. So it's not just about, so creativity isn't just about, um, I mean, I love doing pottery, it's not just about pottery, it is, can be about finding solutions. I think all of that comes together and we can work beautifully. It's not just about quiet leaders and nobody else. I think we can work wonderfully with. louder, more extroverted, less sensitive leaders, because we can take all of this and listen, you know, people that think and process verbally, they'll come up with, they'll share ideas before they're fully formed. We like to have them fully formed before we do it. And we can take all of that and listen to it and internalize it. Okay. So given this and that and that, and then come up with a really amazing solution. So I think it's about us all working together. Um, but we just don't tend to, you know, I think it. Stepping forward is much more of a challenge for us, I think. It's really difficult, extroverted or louder leaders or less sensitive leaders then. So, and I think the other thing, taken to excess can trip us up, but it's also that we don't want to be in the limelight. Which means in terms of developing people and supporting them to shine to, um, develop their confidence to really invest in people so they feel they feel invested in, um, and heard and listened to and supported and enabled that. Empowerment we use a lot, but genuinely empowered. Um, I think we do that really well, really well and see people, you know, within our team to be promoted and develop themselves to success. And I think, yeah, that's why.

Frida: 11:44

Love that. So if someone is listening to this and they feel like, yeah, yeah, I, I Either they are in a leader position or they want to be, but they're trying to do it the tough way. How can they use their sensitivity instead of trying to hide it?

Emma: 12:00

I think the first thing is, is awareness of what you're doing, um, and how you are in the workplace. And the first thing I think is to take a, for me, is to take a step back and look at how are you, how are you showing up? How are you treating yourself? And as you know, I work a lot with people pleasing and imposter syndrome. And these are just. I mean, these are, these are catch all terms for things that are going on inside us a lot. Um, and I think for me, it's about, okay, so how are you going to support yourself to use your sensitive strengths better? So, what are you saying yes to, that's the norm, but is actually working against you and exhausting you and overstimulating you. So things like back to back meetings, making rapid decisions all the time, being turning up, you know, meetings where you have no agenda, you don't know what's happening. Um, you're in an open plan office a hundred percent of the time you're, um, you feel like you have to say yes to going out and socializing after work, all those kinds of things because. I think using our sensitive nature, especially this deep thinking, the deep processing, we tend to get caught up in a, in a world that wants things quicker, decisions faster. And that ability to say, to slow things down and actually speak about what you need to be supported as sensitive is. is really important. So, um, so to give an example around, you know, if you are in corporate and you're going to meetings a lot and A lot of senior meetings, perhaps like this, you maybe you don't have an agenda where you turn up and then the decision has to be made. That's quite important at that meeting. Well, actually, for for sensitives and for quiet leaders, that's actually quite difficult to do consistently and quite can be quite stressful because. We're taking in a load of information and we're being called upon to process it very, very quickly and come up with a solution. And us being really conscientious, we want to come up with the right solution. So if you're the leader yourself and you're in, you can control that meeting, that's brilliant. Or maybe speaking to the person that that has the media that controls that meeting about, you know, can you get an agenda right beforehand? Can we read papers beforehand? Or can you pause the solution? Can we think about this overnight? You know, for those who process differently, um, and, you know, the explanation around our brains work differently. And if you want us to come up with a really good solution, then we, then people need need that. ahead of time and agenda ahead of time so we can think and come up with the best solution, um, rather than thinking about it, like, when you're lying awake at night at four in the morning going, oh god that was, that was it, that's what I should have said, oh it's too late, you know, because you can't sleep because it's still going around your head from the day. So that's the kind of thing and I think there's, there's other things as well about using, and I bet you do it anyway. In terms of using your empathy to understand what your team needs, what your customers need, what your boss needs, what all these people need. But actually recognizing that you'll use, you are different. And that is really special. Because those are skills and strengths, so, you know, you understand what support your team needs, understand your boss asked for something. Well, it probably doesn't need that. It probably needs this or and then suggesting it or he needs that as well as that or she needs that as well as that. So I think there's amazing ways to bring your sensitivity really out. And I think it starts with understanding and accepting it. And supporting so that you're not driving yourself to, to feel quite stressed doing all the things that, that people that aren't like us, um, find really comfortable and not exhausting.

Frida: 16:29

Yeah. And how, how can we start expressing that because it can be quite scary to, to express when we, when we have awareness around it ourselves and start embracing it. That's one question that I get a lot like how, how do I say no or how do I tell other people that I'm highly sensitive or how do I inform?

Emma: 16:52

Yeah, I think you're right. It is tough. And it maybe depends on the person you're speaking to as well and who they are and what their status is. And you may not actually want to share it. As in, sorry, you may not want to share the term highly sensitive, but for me, it's about how do you thrive? You know, what is it that you need to thrive? Because I think certainly in the, the UK, there's a lot more around neurodiversity. There's a lot more being spoken about neurodiversity, people being different. You know, it's, I think it's really an exciting time because it's not, it feels. Like, so much is more in the. open about inclusivity, about diversity, about understanding the needs of others. So maybe it's not so much about saying, actually, I'm highly sensitive. You need, need to allow this for me, but thinking about what is it that I need to thrive. And for me as a vet, it's also, I tend to go back to the science as well. And you can use speak people's language, you know, um, so the Myers Briggs have already talked about, um, that's, there are loads of other psychometric tests, but they are well respected in, um, leadership in, uh, corporate and government and outside it. And not only is it helpful for you to understand yourself a little bit better, but it might be really good language to talk to somebody else about, rather than saying, I'm highly sensitive, you can say, look, I'm, this is. Um, I am an INFJ, which I am, these are the strengths of them. This is what I can really, really add. Um, and these are the things I need to support myself, you know, to really thrive, to bring this out. My brain works differently. It's processes differently, uses different chemicals. Um, what I'm going to do to throw out, you know, what I, and it's not the need bit either, is it? It's. There's a bit of language here that I'm not, I'm not quite getting, but it's, it's about, rather than I need this, it's almost taking it more objectively, I think, and stepping back and saying, in order to. So, I think we often go, oh, well, I need help with this, or I need help with that. Well, maybe. You do, but how do you put that differently and say, actually, in order to, in order to thrive, I need to not have back to back, I need 5 minutes, 10 minutes between meetings. I need to have the agenda beforehand. People like, people with slow processing, introverts, INFJs, INTJs, whatever they are, I don't have it in front of me, but all of that, they need more time. So there are X percentage of those, so there are three in this office. To get the best out of them, that's what you need to do. So, I think maybe there are, it's how you speak the language of whoever it is you're talking to, which is, yeah, and really thinking about how you do that. If you suspect someone else is highly sensitive, maybe you can have that conversation with them.. Yeah. And maybe they're more open to it than others. And there's a wonderful tool, and I can't remember who it was. It was someone on your summit actually. Was it? I can't remember about saying, well, actually. Yeah, it was a wonderful tool to say, well, and that's the other thing to do is take a step back and go, okay, not only am I different, but everybody's different. So how do we get this on a level to say, this is what I need to thrive. This is what this person needs to thrive, who is an extrovert and is not sensitive, but this is what I need to thrive and we need to understand each other better. So that would be another approach to go whole team, whole, you know, um, what does everybody need? And you'll need something different. And some people, they're not going to read an agenda or papers beforehand, because why would they, they want it all at the time and make that decision and we're all different and that's brilliant. And I think that's what it's all about.

Frida: 21:00

Yeah, I love that to really see that we are different and that we need different things to thrive and to contribute in the best way possible and really to turn that into. a superpower instead of saying, Oh, I need this. But yeah, I need this so that we can thrive together. And yeah, definitely love that. So how do we know because you talk about imposter syndrome? So how do we know if that is holding us back?

Emma: 21:28

Yeah, I find imposter syndrome really interesting. Um, because I don't like the name. Yeah. I really don't like the name, but it's, it's what everybody relates to when you talk about being imposter. And, I mean, I, I loved, I think you had an episode talking about self belief or self doubt, that was it. And I think, you know, imposter syndrome, self doubt, they're all things that are trying to protect us. So it's not a disease or a problem that you've picked up. It's not something that's diagnosed. It's not, you know, it's not an affliction of any sort. It's a natural process that is now, as you say, just holding us back and it's served us in the past. There's a really good reason we are essentially trying to protect ourselves. And the common things, one of the most common things is not being able to internalize your successes. So you'll write them off to, oh, it was luck, or maybe no one else applied for the job, or they just like me, or they just know me. Whatever it is, or I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, all of that. And then this constant. drive to thinking that I'm a fraud. Somebody's going to find out I'm actually a fraud. I don't know how I got here. I don't deserve to be here. I'm not good enough to be here and someone's going to find out soon. You know, someone's really going to find out so you tend to drive, you know, and I think essentially we tend to drive ourselves harder. If you have got imposter syndrome, you drive yourself harder and think, right, well, I need to work harder. That's what I need to do, work harder. Maybe it's about fitting in more. Maybe it's about working longer hours. Maybe it's about just doing more and more and more. And what that does is drives your success even more, but it doesn't stop you feeling like an imposter because. You're just at a different level, you know, so you may get promoted or so you think, right, well, if I go for that promotion, then I won't be a fraud. So you go for the promotion, you get the promotion because obviously, um, you're brilliant, but it doesn't stop you feeling like a fraud, so you do feel even more like a fraud. Oh my goodness, uh, that's going to, someone's going to find, find out. So in terms of external success, it may not actually look like it's holding you back at all. But in terms of. Internally, it can be causing quite a lot of stress, um, anxiety, and then eventually burnout. Which is such a shame. Um, I mean, it's milder for me. It can, it can, um, for us certainly, as sensitives it can show up as not speaking up. Which is kind of the flip side of it. So, we might find it really difficult because who am I to give my opinion? Who am I to speak up in this meeting? And I think, you know, I talked about earlier those, those meetings where you turn up and you're the expectation because The norm is everybody turns up and has the solutions at the time. If you're in that meeting and you don't have fully formed ideas, you don't want to share them because you need to think about them all and process them all, but everyone else is sharing these non fully formed ideas and that's, you know, oh goodness, so we don't speak up. That in kind of the reverse of this is the opposite of the success that can then fuel the whole, um, you know, we don't speak up. We don't give our ideas, which are brilliant. It's too late because the decision's made. The meeting's gone. And then we just perpetrate these feelings of being a fraud. And I think especially with sensitives, when we feel like, you know, there is something different about me. There is something, you know, is there something wrong with me that can really settle in?

Frida: 25:06

How can we catch ourselves with the imposter? Awareness

Emma: 25:10

is the first thing. For me, um, awareness of the thoughts that are happening, you know, what are you telling yourself? Is it true? I think it's, that sounds really easy, but it's actually quite hard to actually, yeah, actually, what, what are the thought? What am I telling myself about this? And is that true? Is that actually true? Do I have evidence for this? And I think for me, the thing that that can shift is. understanding that it's trying to keep me safe. That voice is trying to keep me safe. It's trying to ensure that I don't get harmed, that I don't do something that's outside of my zone of familiarity. So, you know, it, it's old stuff. It's, you know, if I go and explore this new place. Maybe that's where the tiger den is. Maybe I don't want to go there. Or, um, maybe if I upset these, these, my tribe, they're, they're going to, um, they're not going to look after me anymore. I'm going to be on my own. So it's old, you know, it's, But it served you in some way or form in your life. This is served to help and protect you. So that kind of kind eyes that, okay, what is it telling me? What is it saying? Is that true? And sometimes I think what can help is actually giving that voice almost a personality. So it's not, you know, if, if you had to, does it remind you of anybody? What does their voice sound like? If you had to give them a name, what would their name be? What do they look like? Um, what does this voice look like? And, because, understanding that it's not you, that isn't the truth. It's a part of you that's trying to keep you safe can be quite powerful. Um, and then that awareness, as I say, awareness, acceptance. It's okay, it's okay. It's trying to keep me safe. Um, I think a really good start. Yeah,

Frida: 27:18

definitely. That is really helpful. And, and as you say, just try to not internalize that voice, even if it's our internal voice, but say, okay, it's, it's that. That person again to try to keep me safe and I don't have to listen to to that voice right now because we, a lot of us have it. I have it. That voice that says, no, don't, don't do that. Don't, don't think you are someone. And they just like, well, I'm doing this anyway. And also what would be a more helpful thing that I could say to myself right now? That's also something that has helped me a lot. Is that helpful? No. What is something that's more helpful? Yeah.

Emma: 28:03

Absolutely. And knowing, and I think a big thing with imposter, uh, imposter syndrome, I don't know, I'm just going to use the words because everyone is talking about using imposter syndrome, is talking about it. So yeah, I have that voice. You know, I can, I hear it, I hear it coming on here, you know, what are you doing? It's there. It's an old voice, but I'm like, okay, thanks so much. Yeah. Thanks very much. But talking about it and going, yeah, I feel like that because I think it can be really isolating and it's surprising when you start talking to people and I would say, pick your people, but to start with, but when you start talking to people you trust and say, I feel like this. And they go, yeah, me too. I feel like it all the time and it's amazing how many people who just seem amazingly confident are feeling like this inside all the time and I think normalizing it and, and that's why I don't like the word syndrome because as you've alluded to as well, it's, it's keeping us safe. It's there for a reason. It's just gotten too much traction now. It's not helpful anymore. Like you say, what is a more helpful thing I could be telling myself in this situation? It's got traction and And it's gone too far in terms of protection because we want to be doing something different now. We don't want it to be holding us back. And that internal stress can be really difficult too. Yeah,

Frida: 29:34

yeah, definitely. It's there and it's normal. So, yeah. So, you also talk about people pleasing. What does, what does that mean? If we start there.

Emma: 29:51

So, in simple terms, it's about. Ignore, it's a pause. Essentially doing, meeting the needs of other people at the expense of ourselves. So, so that's the simple kind of definition. But it, it's just so big, people pleasing. And It sounds really lovely, but it's actually not, it's, it's quite, it's really serious and it's, um, so she's smiling, but it is, it is serious and it can be really damaging because, um, there are so many knock ons from it. You know, people, and it's the common thing people say is, oh, you just automatically say yes, well, yes, that is part of it. That is part of it. It is, it is about, yeah, saying yes to things or volunteering or doing things that actually are in a small way. Or maybe a big way almost causing harm to us because we're not doing what we need or we want or, um, putting boundaries in to say, actually, no, I'm not. That's not something I'm going to do. I'm not prepared to do. So that's the kind of. The short answer.

Frida: 31:14

Yeah. Sorry.

Emma: 31:15

Sorry. Do

Frida: 31:18

you think that sensitives are more prone to, to people? Yeah,

Emma: 31:25

I don't, I don't have stats, but certainly, I think we can, it can be, it's, it's a common thing in small or big ways for highly sensitives, because, and I think that's for a number of reasons. The first being the I think we are, because we are sensitive to other people's feelings, we're more empathic, and we feel our own strongly. Um, when we say no, not only are we feeling our own discomfort about, because this other person wants it. They're excited, whatever it is, say, this is what they, this is what they want. They're asking us for something and we say no. So there's our own discomfort about saying no and guilt and goodness. And then we feel their guilt, their, I don't know, irritation, annoyance, disappointment. And then the emotions come up about, we have to deal with what they're going to say. So I think that becomes a point where we just say yes and deal with our own stuff afterwards. That's okay. And I think, you know, and we want, and we are helpful. Um, you know, we want to help people and we, and like I said, that strength of understanding what people want. Is amazing strength, but taken to an extreme where we don't even we don't know what we want. We don't think about what we want or we need can become a problem. I think it's almost taken taken the other way that intuition that empathy. We take that almost too far. And I think, and I think then it can become a bit of a vicious circle. And I think, you know, we say. Yes, the things I, you know, working late or we needed, you know, actually we were planning on Saturday as a downtime and then someone said, let's go to the beach or let's go to the fair or let's go to the goodness. Yes. Okay. Then we haven't met our own needs. And we become, you know, we actually needed that downtime because we've had a busy week, for instance, and we can become really overstimulated and grumpy because we're tired and overstimulated and resentful with whoever it is who's asked because we've said yes. And then we get irritable, and we then beat ourselves up for being irritable, and then we say yes to something else because we're feeling guilty because we're feeling irritable about the thing that we've said yes to. So, I think there's a really, um, vicious circle, and we think of ourselves as bad because we've become resentful and irritable. But that's, that's what people pleasing

Frida: 34:20

does. You also have a free resource around that. So tell us a bit more

Emma: 34:24

about that. Yeah, thanks Frida. So I put together a workbook with some, um, called the Not People Policing Workbook. And, uh, it's It's a tool for you to sit down and really think about why you people please, how that's showing up for you, what needs it's meeting, so that you can really bring that awareness, a little bit like we talked about with imposter syndrome, bring that awareness to your own people pleasing. And then, which, which what. That awareness and acceptance then gives you the ability. And there's a little exercise in there to say, okay, so given this is what I need, what am I going to do to, how can I do that differently in really small steps, just start to stop people pleasing. So hopefully that'd be really

Frida: 35:20

helpful. Wonderful. Yeah, I bet it is. We'll put the link here so you can go and check it out. So yeah, this is the sensitive success podcast. What is sensitive success to you? Oh,

Emma: 35:32

okay. So, um, I think this is such a great question, isn't it? And I think, I just, I wish I'd asked myself this for the last 20 years, like every year at the year or something and it's such a powerful but simple question. So, I can make this really complicated, but it's not, but for me it's really simple and my success is feeling in a peace. That's, that's my success. And of course there's loads behind that. And I know we talked before we hit record just about, you know, my success this morning is I was able to go outside with a cup of tea and watch the sunrise. Okay. It was raining, but I could see the, you know, go out and feed my hens and, and this sheep and watch the sunrise this morning with a hot cup of tea. And for me, that's. Amazing success because living, being able to be okay with not my first step of being okay. So that the awareness and the acceptance that I am highly sensitive, being okay with that and celebrating. Celebrating how I'm different and then for me, there's behind that, there's the wildness. I'm just looking at a bird outside. I think it's going to come in, but I'm celebrating wildness. And I'm so lucky that here we've got a couple of acres of land and we're able to plant that and and create a kind of a wildlife reserve alongside our sheep and hens and here. And. For me, that also means making a difference. That's making a difference in conservation, making a difference in my coaching, supporting people, being able to do that, um, and going into the kind of depth that we've talked about today as well, really having, having that ability, that space, that time to think and go deeper. And like I say, that, that thing this morning about being able to go outside and I'm not rushing anywhere. I'm here. in the wild I can step outside my door and I actually saw a hare just going out this morning to feed the hens. So, you know, being able to be part of that, to have made this difference here, um, and be able to help others, other sensitives, other quiet people, I, you know, for me, it's pretty simple, but that's great success for me.

Frida: 37:55

Yeah. Beautiful. Love that. Definitely. So, Is there anything else that you would like to add to those sensitives that are listening? I

Emma: 38:07

think maybe the thing that I didn't touch upon, um, because we've kind of, we've, we've talked about a lot, but I think for me, for all sensitives, is Whatever you're doing, whatever steps you're taking, however you're challenging yourself in the world, make those steps small and be okay with them being small. And maybe if you think they're small, they need to be smaller. So, you know, we are sensitive, we have sensitive nervous systems, we process things more deeply, we take in a lot more, feeling the fear and doing it anyway and just diving in doesn't really work for us. Um, it can cause, you know, shut down and just grit your jaw and do it anyway. And taking those. Tiny, small steps, we will get there, but it means you'll get there with a nervous system that is happy and online and you're supporting yourself. So, you know, with people pleasing, people talk about saying, no, maybe don't start with no, maybe start, maybe start with maybe. You know, practice saying, giving yourself the time, actually, that sounds brilliant. I'm just going to need to check my, uh, I'm just going to need to check my commitments and I'll come back to you. And even start that saying it to yourself and saying it in the mirror. So how do you make that step even less, you know, even smaller. So I think that's it. You know, that's the big thing for me that changed is right. You do not have to grip your jaw like other people. You know, you don't have to set your jaw and grit your teeth and dive in. Okay. I need to do this kindly to myself. How am I going to do it? And then you're online, you're learning, you're not just panicking your way through it, which doesn't do you any good at all. And it doesn't encourage you to do it next time. Yeah. I love that.

Frida: 40:00

That is so important. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your wisdom with us and for, for all the work that you do for us. Quiet leaders. Love it. So important.

Emma: 40:11

Thanks so much, Frida, for inviting me in the podcast. It's been so nice to talk to you.

Frida: 40:17

You too. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Sensitive Success. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with someone who could benefit from this message. And come over and connect with me on Instagram at Frida Kahlo. And remember, sensitivity is neither good or bad. It's what we make of it. Embrace your sensitivity and use it to create sensitive success your way.